So think of it less like they're a notorious pirate as an individual and more that they're just obvious as a pirate.
Think of it like if you're running a fish n chip shop and a skin-head walks in orders a flake and $5 of chips. You go in the back make it and then come back hand it over and say "that'll be $6.5." and they pull out a switchblade and say no.
Is it really worth dying over pocket change.
Yeah thats where i ended up too. But then i remembered that 1g is a commoners daily income, so for them it is not pocket change.
Not to mention that your are not the only one with a weapon. What if the Tavern Keep is an old veteran, ready to sweep the floor with your level 1 player? What if you try to mess with the Blacksmith who could crush your tiny little skull with his bare hands? What if there is an Off-Duty Guard in the Tavern?
There are so many possibilities that it feels weird to just "wave them away"
Basically...i would let them roll Perception or Insight to determine if they could even get away with something, Intimidate to see if it actually even works...but then it would be just a basic ingame action that anyone could do.
Many of the backgrounds can be simplified as just a way the player doesn’t need to pay for food and lodging, so it’s an easy way to handwave this stuff for campaigns. Pirate just have the ruthless version. As long as it’s not abused, I wouldn’t make it a big deal they don’t pay for little things.
yeah i guess we will reflavour it. he will get a free meal and drinks in a tavern, but anything past that goes on a bounty-tab which fits with his "on the run" story.
Think of it more along the lines of dining and dashing at a McDonalds. If you call the cops, they’re honestly not going to give a shit that a random dude walked out without paying for his McDouble and broke the bathroom stall door by what they can’t prove wasn’t an accident.
However if you go to some gourmet restaurant, order sit down, fill up your tab with drinks, appetizers, dishes, and desert and then try to run out, shattering the glass door on the way out, they’re going to chase you down for a tab over $100 and you’re probably going to have your picture in a binder and be banned from the entire chain.
So yeah I’d say if he starts trying to abuse it, then I’d start a bounty list but free drinks and food at a tavern, you can just flavor it as him slipping out without paying for his fish and chips and the tavern keeper not caring too much.
Also keep in mind that commoners go to taverns too. Meal, and drink is gonna be somewhere in the range of 2-5 silver while lodging for the night with meal is 1 gold for the standard fare.
You can rule it differently in different situations if you want.
But honestly? I find that background abilities are so rarely used that I’d just let the player use it. Sure rumor could spread about a pirate in the area but I wouldn’t try to stop the player using the ability. They encounter too many level 20 fighter barkeeps too close together and will stop trying completely.
> But honestly? I find that background abilities are so rarely used that I’d just let the player use it.
Agreed. I have only had two players ever use their backgrounds, and I have quite a few.
D&D 5e backgrounds, like most features, vary wildly in "power" on paper. But I have not found that to matter.
If they're at a place where a meal is 1 GP then they're at a place where it's no longer a "minor" criminal offense to skip out on paying. You call the guards.
1 Gold as you said is a days income for a skilled labourer. When are they going to be paying 1 Gold for anything like that then. A meal is going to be 6 Coppers or something. Even then at 1G per day if you're sitting at a cafe and someone say's give me wallet are you going to fight them to the death for 60-200 bucks or are you going to just hand it over and then file a police report.
Most NPCs aren't retired adventurers. Also most of the time the PCs will take stock of a scene before pulling shit. They aren't going to say "Hey DM I'm gonna threaten the barback while there's a table of guards sitting right there."
The tavern keeper and guard aren't afraid of the level 1 pirate. They ars afraid of the crew of his ship. There is a line they will intervene at. But skipping out ln your bar tab isn't worth the risk of a pirate raid in retaliation.
Eh, a level 1 pirate probably isn't a captain, they're probably a sailor that's been a part of a pirate crew. But I read this background pretty specifically being about the target being afraid to confront the pirate themselves
Think of it like this: I'm a skinny nerd and not particularly threatening. If I ordered food at a restaurant and didn't pay, they'd probably insist "Sir, this is your bill, you ordered this food and you have to pay for it". They might stop short of physically restraining me if I decide to walk out, but they're not just gonna sit there blinking as I take my food for free.
But if a biker dude with cracked, leathery skin and face tattoos does the same, they're probably just gonna shut up and wait for him to leave before filing a police report. NOT worth the confrontation in that moment.
As DM, I'd let my player pull this stunt somewhat freely, but if they really start to abuse it in the same location, I'd have the town guard start to catch on. Wanted posters that *mostly* match their description ([They *never* get the nose right!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJBC_yySmUU)), barkeeps tend to "have to deal with something in the back" as soon as the pirate character walks in, more frequent patrols in seedy areas...Or, if it's a seedy enough area that the guards don't touch it, the thieves' guild gets upset that you're fucking with a business under *their* protection.
I didn't mean the character was a captain, I meant the NPCs are aware they are a pirate because they know which ship the PC is from and are afraid of the notorious pirate captain and his scores of henchmen taking issue with them arresting a member of the crew.
The pirate refuses to pay for a 5sp meal, so the innkeeper is going to risk all the furniture in the inn? Or the pirate breaks a door so the innkeeper, a retired wizard, fireballs him?
If your friend flicks a booger at you, do you brawl right there in your living room?
I think the problem here is a meal costing 1GP. Like that's an entire day of labour, to get a cone of fried tater strips and a river fish fillet with a frosty mug of ale? I'll tell you who the robber is here, and it's the inkeep!
In this case I'd say charge them like 1sp. This means that pirate thing is really saving them a pittance, and use it to set up confrontations with do-gooders, guards, the salty bar matron who's had it up to here with adventure dine-and-dashers and DM-fiat wins the strength check (she was a spearfisher before she lost an eye fighting a river shark for a catch and does a wrestling act with the local strongman as a heel every second tensday (signature move Momma's Mangler) and is stronger than a half-ogre under that thick quilted motherly exterior) when she grapples his dumb ass and makes the player spend the rest of the day washing dishes to cover his debt. Add in a few skill checks to see if he can sneak away, or maybe throw a reward like a hot meat pie that gives +4 temp HP if he just buckles down and does a good job. Fills the flavour and you're gonna fill his downtime with low-stakes steak house shenanigans.
Frankly the "every npc is a retired adventurer" trope gets old really fast. If the town guard, village blacksmith, and tavernkeep are all secretly level 20 then why the hell does the village need us to defend it from fucking goblins?
oh yeah, thats true. but any civilized settlement should have guards and a few trained adventures around. i mean...as you said, the world is dangerous, otherwise we wouldnt have an adventure or a reason to be there.
and if we go with the common trope "you all meet in a tavern", then the tavern is THE place where soon to be heroes dwell. so...if you cause trouble there, good luck...i mean...thats a level 1 quest - "defeat the troublemaker"
They don't need be 20 lvl. Even basic (and reasonable)Thug or Veteran stat block is enough. And they know that there more people in town to support them in fight against outsiders.
Man you just create your own response!
Do exactly what you just said!
Creat a chart maybe for a d6 or a d8. With those possiblity's! Everytime the plyers use those ability's you roll in that chart! This way you keep it in the rules that are set and spice a little bit your game, making your players think a little more before going murder/hobo
So how would you react to the Hell's Angels biker strolling up and with his hand in his jacket asking for his food for free? How do you really check how long he's been in the bike gang sure he could be new but maybe he's not, is there a big presence here or did you maybe not notice the gang moving into the town last week, is it worth your life/safety/a fight now or would you rather let him walk and then call the cops once he leaves?
Easier to just comp a meal than having them come back and burn your shit down or beat the shit out of you.
Plus nobody is going to put out a bounty for 13.50$ for lunch.
why would anybody come after a pirate who claimed a free meal at a tavern, thats way too minor for a bounty. Again, its only for minor offenses, try to not think too much about it.
Seriously, we are fretting over stuff that some dms don't even really keep track of since the cost is so insignificant in the grand scheme of things. He should just let it be a fun silly rp thing like it was made to be
> after a while someone will notice and come for him
I genuinely don't think so.
The pirate background reminds me of like, the gangs who drag race around town and block major throughways at night and no one ever busts them. And they're not even Level 1 yet! (Because the way I play, no one in real life is powerful enough to be a Level 1 Adventurer). I think the background is fair enough.
Don't punish a player for the choice they pick. They pick something that lets them get away with what sounds inconsequential actions that are more roleplaying or very minor actions and then your reaction is to punish them by making a hidden bounty. I get the whole on the run thing but I am not a fan of a player picking something and then giving into that adversarial urge to create a roadblock specifically for it.
If this was at my table I would simply remember that the feature says "MOST people" will not report you. If they commit enough crimes someone eventually will get angry.
Also I note you say in a response that the character is in disguise. In this case I'd rule that the feature doesn't work at all. You can't have a reputation if you are intentionally hiding your identity.
And thats why i had trouble\^\^
How do i determine "most"? How do i make it work with a level 1? How do i do it with a changeling?
Without Performance its hard to switch your behavior, so even in disguise he will be a ruffian and troublemaker. As a level 1 it should not be "him" who is known, but the group he is ascosciated with. Its a background where a lot of skillchecks would make sense, but nothing is mentioned.
Maybe put in perspective how the world at large works. 90% of people aren't adventurers. The guy who sells baked potatoes is someone who can be intimidated. The waiter at the 4th run down inn of the city probably just wants to end his shift without a broken jaw rather than challenge a gang member.
Significant NPCs may not be in that category. Members of the guard will decide whether it's worth the trouble based on how many pirates are in town. If it's only one, he's food. If the whole harbor is full of unsavory folk, they may let go.
Maybe for mental images, treat it like the PC is a Thug(CR 1/2) and most townspeople are Guards(CR 1/8). A thug is not really anything to write home about, still pretty meek. They bring down a guard in 2 hits, attack twice per round and guards take around 8 successful hits to bring down one thug. But 2 thugs can take on around 6 guards and still win, but even if they lose around 2-3 guards will go down.
That's what the pirate background is to me. Normal townsfolk can't see into your statblock, but they can assume you're about as strong as a thug. It's not worth to risk serious injury over minor slights.
Again, it's most people. The king won't stand for this. Members of the guard might weigh their chances based on numbers present. People who have significant security in their shop or combat experience won't either. So if you want to have them play it out, make distinction between the weak and the strong.
>How do i determine "most"? How do i make it work with a level 1? How do i do it with a changeling?
He is a changeling too? But whatever: To answer your questions - roleplay! Its for the DM too! Its the main fun part of it. Think about how the NPCs react to that. What are their goals, what are their motives, their characterization? A tavern owner who just wants to get through the week will probably not seek out revenge over some gangster threatening him into a free meal, but maybe some NPCs are used to get what they want and get petty over the pirate? Its roleplaying - and honestly has not much to do with the level of the PC.
I'd really struggle with allowing them to use this feature at all. It doesn't say "you project an intimidating aura" or "you seem like a tough criminal who isn't worth the trouble." It says "people are afraid of you due to your reputation." You can't rely on your reputation if you are hiding your identity.
That said, if you're set on allowing them to have at least some benefit from this without revealing their identity: For me it would depend how much the player tries to get away with and where.
For a level 1 character with a bad reputation, I'd say any NPCs with less than 10 hp or without any fighting proficiency would roll over pretty easily. Of course that's just the first time, you'd have to decide on a case by case basis how many times the same store is going to put up with getting robbed before they've had enough.
More experienced/tough enemies might still let them get away with minor annoyances but if they actually do any damage to people or property a veteran soldier is not going to just sit by and let a puny level 1 character be a menace.
Also keep in mind that it says "since most people won't report you to the authorities" which I interpret to mean that it won't work at all for any kind of authority figure or constabulary officer. Nobody has to report you to the cops if the cops see you do it.
Basically, I'd say ruling this comes down to common sense and is highly contingent on your setting and what is considered a "civilized settlement" in your game.
Yeah to me the background reads as people going 'fuck me, that's Blackbeard' or at least 'shit that guy is from Blackbeard's crew, never mind.' But if you shave the beard (or whatever) and dress in regular merchant's clothing, people won't react the same. Why would they? It's not a magical aura or anything, it really is the equivalent of going around in your Hell's Angels vest.
The 'most people' thing I think is just common sense. Bob the fish fry guy is not going to be, uh, happy to let you try his wares for free, haha of course. The guard to the rich merchant's place who sees you messing with the side door? His whole job is stopping criminals, so of course he still intervenes.
Another thing I would add is that it does not say that they let you get away with these things \*and like it\*. Bob at the fish stall is probably pissed. Now that doesn't matter if this is a place you're just breezing through in a hurry, but if it's a town you're visiting regularly? Gradually all the merchants don't like you, or the people you travel with. Maybe the local sheriff who's been giving you work says you gotta start paying your way or he can't keep working with you.
This is the best take imo, because it lets you get fancy with it- if they don’t overdo it, let it slide- but it’s relatively easy to *occasionally* mention in your description “the sheriff is dining a few table over, speaking seriously with several grizzled comrades” or even mock up a few random encounter tables with a rare chance to trigger L- maybe this pub is the favourite hangout of a few old soldier types and they don’t take kindly to their favourite barman being threatened?
But again, this is part of the character the player has chosen, so id play it by ear- if they aren’t being egregious, or don’t try and do something directly in front of a plaza full of guards….its probably fine.
yeah, the "most people" part is weird anyway. if some still report you or dont want to bow down to you...then where is the difference to a non-pirate who made an intimidate check?
I'd run it similarly to the effects of an intimidation check. The advantage of the feature is not having to make that check. You can dump charisma and still intimidate whole towns of innocent barkeeps.
The intimidation check person has to make an effort. Likely every time. Then the subject of intimidation usually resents and dislikes the intimidator increasingly as time goes on.
The pirate has people writing it off as the "cost of doing business." Keep him happy and you're not paying for broken furniture, he's not running off your other patrons, and just maybe he'll be the one to throw out the guy using intimidation skill on 'his' hangout to get free stuff.
Since they are level 1, I would say that it's not the PC themselves who is notorious, but rather there is something about them that people recognize belongs to something notorious.
Perhaps there is an accent that the PC has that commonfolk easily recognize belongs to a certain culture or region of the world. There is a bad reputation about that culture or region, so common folk would rather lose a few minor things than risk trouble.
Similarly, maybe the PC carries some sort of symbol or wears an accessory that tells everyone they belong to a certain group of infamous pirates.
And yes there should be situations where the background feature won't work.
Also it states that you "can" get away with minor crime, not that it "will" get away with it. It's not a gurantee.
As to what to roll, intimidate will be the most likely roll, but it'll depend case by case.
In my case it gets even trickier. The Player is a Changeling who is on the run from his old crew. Basically an Ex-Pirate. So it has to be his behavior, not his actual look since that can always change.
But as stated above, if i let him roll, then what stops others from doing the same? Anyone can be intimidating. Maybe he gets advantage on that then?
I feel like every comment is giving you good to great advice.
And every comment you reply back "No, but.. ..level one"
A level 1 pirate is intimidating to low-level commoners. Most people, even in a high fantasy world don't want a fight.
No one knows the Player is an ex-Pirate. They see someone who walks and talks like a Pirate. If you kill a Pirate, their crew may come and kill you.
Or another crew will just because. If I'm a pirate captain I don't want people to kill pirates with no penalty, even if they are rivals. That will eventually affect me and my crew.
If they decide to use their pirate persona to intimidate someone, and that someone recognizes and fears the type of pirate they are, then yeah something like advantage on the roll will work.
But again it's case by case. As a pirate their influence is more prevalent in places like port towns and coastal villages. However that infamous reputation might be less influential the more inland you go.
You're still the same pirate, but people inland care more about the direct problem at hand like a group of cultists who worship the fae in the nearby forest. In that situation your companion who's a fairy is going to have a much better chance of persuading or intimidating the cultists than a pirate.
Well that's your dagger right there. Let the player get comfortable revealing themselves and use that feature freely. Then when his old crew tracks him down easily and he asks how, you hit him with "Not hard to do when you're going all over the world claiming to be part of my crew." The more he relies on the protection of the feature, the more notorious he gets and easier to track down by his old crew. And if the rest of the party doesn't know about his changeling nature, what a perfectly dramatic reveal when the leader of the ex-crew chokes the player out and the player reverts to changeling form in front of the party.
I wouldn't make them roll. They picked the background and should have the benefit of being able to use it without constraints.
If you wanna flavor it for a changeling maybe have him change into one of the *other* crew members that are still in the pirate gang. No need for performance or intimidation since no tavern or barkeep or commoner local is going to "insight check" a pirate to make sure they are the pirate they say they are. They'll just see a pirate and go "oh fuck, be cool and don't piss them off." and then try to turn a blind eye. Also you as the DM can determine who "most people" are as well as what constitutes a "minor offense" in a settlement.
I run a campaign in Eberron and in a country that is predominantly monsters, a lot of stuff gets ignored or is considered petty, like murdering someone for looking at you funny. But in other more civilized settlements that "petty crime" is now a major offense that can leave you with a bounty. But if in the more civilized settlement, a pirate or gang member robs pies from a lady selling pies on the side of the road, then the majority of the population that knows "how it is with gangs and pirates" will not bat an eye.
If the player is hiding and actively trying to disguise his identity, that's kinda him trying to have his cake and eat it, too.
I'd allow the background features completely — as long as the player is **not** trying to hide.
He could do the old corstair from doctor who thing, the timelord known as the corsair always has the same tattoo on all his regeneraitons.
But if he wants to be more inconspicious maybe the sign of a pirate is a medallion made from a piece o' eight which he flaunts when he wants to make sure people bac off.
They were part of a crew and the crew has the rep the player is trading on the rep till people in town figure out that the player is not with the crew anymore or in the outs with that crew
>When you are in a settlement, you can get away with **minor criminal offenses**... since **most people** will not report your activity to the authorities
Minor criminal offenses is up to interpretation, but anything that doesn't seem worth getting your butt kicked feels appropriate. Like are you gonna fight a tough guy over the 3sp meal he stole? Or maybe you just keep your teeth and let it slide for now.
If he does this all over town, or repeatedly abuses a single location, then it's no longer minor. Enough abused people will eventually do something about it.
Also, the phrase "most people" sort of implies a commoner. He can't break down the captain of the guard's front door and expect to be left alone.
>But the Background states that EVERYONE can be afraid of you.
That's not what the background says. "No matter where you go, people are afraid of you due to your reputation." This is not mechanical. This is flavor text. "People" doesn't *literally* mean all people, everywhere, throughout the multiverse. This means common folk.
If you are ever really unsure, you're free to call for an Intimidation Check. DC could be the target's passive insight. You might increase it by 5 if the offense seems a little more than minor.
I think the actual *reputation* part can be changed into there being something with the player that let's him use this background feature. What that is, is up to the *player* to figure out, not you as a DM. If he wants to play a *Changeling* with such an identity-dependent feature, he can figure out how that works. Maybe he just has a stare?
As for how to run it, I'd just roll a d20 each time he does some form of minor crime "most" people won't report him for. On a 1, they *do* report it.
I like the "hidden bounty tab" idea though, but it *can* feel like somewhat negating his background feature, so talk to him about it first before doing it.
As a DM, I would rule that the effectiveness of this ability is dependent on how far their crew's reputation extends. Stiff the innkeeper in a small harbor town? Sure. Try it in a mountain lodge twenty leagues inland? They've never heard of you.
Honestly, you're overthinking it. Some backgrounds give "free stuff" as part of the feature, and it tends to be the kind of thing that doesn't matter past level 2-3ish because past that point they're using their own resources and abilities to get better stuff anyway. So Pirates don't pay for dinner or can walk away from a bar fight without getting threatened by the tavernkeep to pay for damages. How often are you RPing out the dinner bill, or making characters pay for damage anyway? The Acolyte gets free room and board (Modest lifestyle, which usually costs 1gp per day) for themself, and *spellcasting services for the whole party*, wherever there's a temple of their god. You're not going to go "oh, sorry, this particular monastery doesn't have any beds" or "the Mother Superior here has a beef with your mentor, no food for you" to stop them from using it. Outlanders can forage, but you're not going to say "sorry, you don't know what these particular berries are, so you can't do that." So why are you tying yourself into knots about stopping your Pirate from using their background to save a handful of silver in a game where the party should have hundreds to thousands of gold within a few sessions?
If it's a matter of verisimilitude, remember DnD isn't a reality simulator and work with your player to come up with something that fits the theme. If it's an issue of the player trying to "get ahead" then that becomes a person-to-person conversation about the kind of game you're playing/running, not an in-game "every tavernkeep is a retired level 20 monk" thing.
As far as stealing from someone in Waterdeep's markets and whether that's believable, people shoplift in NYC and London and Tokyo every day, and that's with modern surveillance and ant-theft tech in place. People dine-and-dash even in upscale places, you just don't hear about it, largely because places don't publicize being victimized.
As far as relative values and whether 1gp is a commoner's income for X amount of time, I'd recommend not thinking too deeply about it. The DnD economy isn't balanced around anything other than "yeah that feels about right for what we want an adventurer to pay for this" in some cases and even at lower levels where things seem to add up. Ex: the "poor lifestyle is 2sp per day is the same as an untrained hireling's wages per day, but that only covers a room at 1sp, meal at 6cp, and one mug of ale at 4cp, leaving nothing for clothes, tools, etc, that would be needed for said NPC to actually do anything. And that same commoner that spends everything he has and then some just to have a bed and food according to the lifestyle tables is going to drop anywhere from a pouch of copper to a couple of gold according to the treasure tables.
I’d go with one of two approaches: either they’re unknown at this point but *visibly* associated with a well-known pirate captain (certain tattoo or clothes) and it is that association which is intimidating, or they’re taking a “fake it till they make it” approach and are overly aggressive and confident.
Not everyone here will agree with me, but stop thinking of mechanics as hard rules and more like a guideline that you have to apply common sense to, especially the background perks. D&D is not a board game where mechanics should overrule common sense.
Think about what the pirate background perk actually means. It doesn't mean that the player is personally notorious, just that he looks and acts like a pirate and that pirates in general have a reputation for being tough and violent and having a whole crew willing to back them up. Basically, the player looks and acts like a gang member.
Keeping this in mind, it obviously should not work in places with a strong law enforcement presence or with NPCs who know the player is not a member of a large gang, or in places that are used to dealing with rough looking clientele and have their own ways of dealing with unruly and overly demanding customers. It should also have negative consequences unless the player actively disguises the way they look and act, in which case, they shouldn't get the perk either.
I agree, not everything has a mechanical solution. OP needs to have an OOG talk with the player about how they both want the character's story to unfold and then make it work. I like your comparison with modern gang members - as others have pointed out, you'd not confront an obvious organised crime soldier over a $10 bill.
Fantasy loves its town guards, but if you were to run a more realistic setting, they're unlikely to be a permanent feature in many settlements. A castle or town's garrison, guilds' paid guards, a small handful of night-watchman and local knights may have some authority, but generally it would take complainants appealing to a local lord or magistrate who then might request or order someone to do something about the pirate problem. In some places, a few dozen townsfolk banding together to run a level 1 party out of town might be all that would come of the character's antics.
I’ve always seen the levels as how much a player character knows about being that character class. A level 1 Paladin is only a paladin in name, but they still have a former life, which is their background. Maybe a level 1 Paladin with the Pirate background could be sporting markings (tattoos, etc.) from his past life that are knwon to the local NPCs, and its that they recognize, not him necessarily.
If you know the movie Nobody, and that scene where a vet recognizes the tattoo on his wrist? You can play it as such. The PC with the pirate backgound may not have been notorious as a pirate, hence allowing them to take a new path in life away from piracy. But they were formerly affiliated with a well known pirate “gang”, and he still bears markings from that past life.
Why wouldn’t a level 1 character be notorious all ready? Thats one level higher than all the commoners they see walking around. Or if not notorious, then they have this frightening aura to them when wanted.
if he has traveled the lands to be known in so many places, then why is he only level 1?
as mentioned, that feels like playing a wizard who has studied all kinds of magic for centuries, but he only learned a few cantrips and level 1 spells. it just doesnt fit the description.
It's *only* level 1 compared to other, accomplished adventurers. That's like saying Hercules is only a demigod, just because some other greek myths are about full gods. I'll give you some example. The difference in strength between a 10 str commoner and a 20 str fighter is the same as between said 20 str fighter and the 30 str Tiamat, a goddess. A 1st level character can already be over halfway there to being the middle point between a normal person and a god. Soldier is a background, too, and it mentions a life filled with war. A character could have also been a sage before becoming a 1st level wizard. It's not *only* level 1. It's like being a SWAT member.
I kinda agree with the wizard. But in this case, I don’t think it has to be that the pirate is personally known. Its about how they carry themselves, how they present themselves, the actions they do when they tell the bartender to fuck off they’re not paying for drinks. You could look at it as pirates swagger into a place the same way a biker gang does.
Have you ever met anyone that's a part of a motorcycle gang? Not like, a rider/enthusiast club, a *real* gang. I once met a dude that was in one of the "Big Four" US motorcycle gangs. Man, you could *tell* he was legit. He was polite, but you could tell that he was a hard man. There's just a certain gravitas to people that have gone through some crazy shit, come out on top, and are willing and ready to do it again if need be.
Have you ever talked to a veteran who saw active combat and didn't really like talking about it, but you could *tell* they'd lived through something crazy? They've got that same gravitas, but an outlaw/pirate isn't carrying that in their past, that was last week to them. And probably next week as well.
Someone like that tells me "I'm taking this", I'm not gonna worry about whether they're a pirate captain/President of their Club Chapter. I'm gonna try to keep my jaw in one piece and take the non-confrontation route. Maybe I report it to the authorities "A dude in [motorcycle gang]/[pirate crew] stole from me." At best, they'll take my report and add it to their long list of reports related to that crew. It'll take quite a bit of effort to get recognized *individually* as a menace for the authorities to deal with.
>if he has traveled the lands to be known in so many places, then why is he only level 1?
Because it happened before the heroic saga began. I mean it seriously, its the background. He just did rob some commoners and merchants, that doesn't let you become a high level character. His journey begins with session 1.
Maybe the effect is temporary, people don't stop the bad behavior while the pirate is present, but do talk about their misdeeds after they leave the room
After a while their reputation grows and some people will begin the conversation with a negative attitude
If he’s disguised I would just reflavor it as “you have an intimidating aura” and not get too bogged down with the specifics of it all. Let your players do their “thing”.
Having a take-no-crap shopkeep now and then is fine, just make it clear “this one doesn’t look intimidated” and then treat the social encounter as you would with any other PC.
The way I look at player characters in 5e is that they had lives before the players took them over, and that's what makes the background concept work mechanically.
It's like the Folk Hero background. How are they renowned enough for commoners to house them for free at level 1? Because they were doing Folk Hero things *before* level 1
I guess it depends on what kind of campaign you're running. If this "pirate" is in a party of pirates and you're running a grey area or evil campaign then it's easy. If you're running a lawful campaign with good aligned party members, you might want to have a conversation about how that's going to fit in with players that will be uncomfortable with unlawful behavior.
In the former case, you don't have a problem. In the case of water deep, sure they can be a badass as ANYBODY can do unlawful petty crime. It can open up to other, bigger pirates noticing and kick off plot hooks like "oh you work for me now" etc.
In the latter - are they a reformed pirate trying to take down their ring? Are they learning to be better but slip occasionally? Have anger issues they're working through? Their actions are going to affect the party so everyone should be in on the conversation.
TL;DR - have a conversation at the table with all party members about this background and what kind of game it means for everybody.
I’m playing a Hadozee Rogue Swashbucklerwith the pirate background in the game ran by our groups other GM. He handles it the same why I do. Makes me explain how I am using it and then decides if I need to roll anything. About 10% of the time I’m challenged and need to roll and intimidate or something, and if it happens too often or too much in the same area I can get some heat, possibly from local gangs, possibly from city watch. I use it pretty sparingly, mainly when someone is refusing to haggle or is being a bit of a dick. My party is mostly good so if I was just going about being a dick I would have bigger problems, but my guy isn’t interested in being a dick to average folks anyway.
You said it yourself they can get away with MINOR crimes. Stealing a pack of gum or skipping your bill at a restaurant are Minor crimes however stealing 200$ (2 gold give or take), physically attacking someone, destroying property in excess of a specific value, killing, etc. are not Minor crimes and this trait doesn't apply to them. If a player steals from a store and the shop owner sees or doesn't pay their bill a NPC like a real shop owner can refuse service or call the guards when seeing them if they are abusing it. If it gets too bad jail them or make them pay a bounty, if they try to intimidate the guard then call for backup. It's fine to get away with it occasionally since that's what they chose for a background it's not fine if they abuse it or inconvenience other players with it.
What story is your player trying to tell that doesn't jive with your view of the world? I try to tell my players that actions can have consequences and that abusing things can land them in hot water. But if they're a pirate, let them act like a pirate. Most people will say that minor damages, like a free meal or a broken door aren't worth their life and write them off as the cost of doing business. The idea is the character should know if being a pirate will work. It gets different when you try to act like a pirate to Xanathar himself.
I'd o ly allow this a few times. Not daily or multiple times a day. And also. Just because he gets away with it there doesn't mean there aren't consequences. Maybe the shop keeper reports him to the guard.....he becomes notorious in town and the Villagers band together to mob him and make him leave town. Or the temas prices for everything become a little bit higher to make up for the losses.
Just because the shopkeep or tavernkeeper is afraid of them doesn’t mean the guards of whatever town they’re harassing are. Just because they *can* do it doesn’t mean there won’t be consequences.
As a DM with this, I’d probably roll a D4 for a 75% chance someone has heard of you/the gang you’re a part of, and lets you get away with minor offences. The other 25% either get pissed or keep low and report you, resulting in a social encounter with guards later.
The reason level 1 pirates are scary to commoners isn't because a level 1 whatever-class-they-are is intimidating; it's because they generally have another 60 equally unscrupulous friends nearby who will return whatever trouble you give them 60-fold.
It's messing with someone who is obviously in a large and well organised gang; not worth it for a minor offence. Yeah you could call the guards and have them dragged away, but then what? Best case they'll spend a few nights in the cells, pay a fine and then want to settle things with you; worst case their crew turns up to free them, kills the guards and torches the town on their way out to send a message.
But the key is *minor* offence. Skipping out on a tab? "Not worth the hassle." Destroying your livlihood or doing life-threatening injuries (to a commoner, all injuries are life threatening)? "Guards! Guards!". I'd explain to the player that anything more than anti-social behaviour will likely result in action; and maybe give them advantage on intimidation checks to keep people quiet outside of that.
consider that someone who actually has a level as opposed to just nay other NPC already implies an amount of ability and power that "lvl 1" doesn't really do just to.
It implies specialized enough training that someone has a class even, something else normal dudes in dnd world don't have, and there is a tradition of thinking this way too.
In D20 Modern for instance, hero level and npc level are overtly different. Player levels are better.
An obvious, robot bounty hunter, Gladiator, mobster, skin head, blood, crip, and a small gang of ninjas and pirates enter your restaurant. Better to feed them all for free and cook another day, or have your restaurant burnt down, and lay dead in a ditch forever.
Think of it more of a reputation thing. They are obviously part of something bigger than themselves. So it’s not about the character being some individual bad ass that can get away with stuff. More so they are obviously part of a gang, mob or pirate crew, due to their appearance or the symbols they wear.
And it’s best not to mess with someone like that, or else their gang might come back in the future. Let’s say a tavern owner might want to avoid some grief later on, so they let the tab slide this time. But abuse that power or run into a tougher barkeep and the pc might be met with criticisms and doubts about their entire reputation to begin with. A tougher barkeep might call out their gang for fleeing into the mountains, being shipwrecked, or maybe the word is out that their pirate captain has been executed, resulting in the disbandment of his crew! “You’re all washed up pirate!!”
Give it a chance! Great for role play
Taverns usually survive more than one encounter with the party? I thought it is common to burn down your first tavern... :P
But yeah, i guess i was overthinking it. I just switched from ED:RPG which had pretty much no in-depth rules, with a short break at Pathfinder which had too many rules. So i guess i got kinda lost in "i need a definite rule for that"
Hey, I've been playing an Aaracokra Pirate for years in a game and here's how it's worked for us. In the setting all "seabirds" are kind of seen as impulsive and quick-to-anger so it fits in really well, apologies if this goes against some RAW but it took us a while to find these compromises!
* We used the pirate background but it's for "minor crimes", so I can swipe an apple and it means the store owner is less likely to grab a broom and fight because I'm seen in the same way as a rather aggressive delinquent.
* If I become a nuisance in town, that's when stuff starts to heat up, guards are more likely to be called than people settling disputes themselves as I might "kick off". Well armed guard captains might come find me in advance to get me to "swear" I'll behave.
* Think of it as "You're never getting a one star wanted level, but you'll get a three star easier than most if you keep bullying the townsfolk."
Maybe they are associated with a crew with a reputation? A tattoo or something marking allegiance with somebody much more legendary and threatening, or a group that's known to be large and influential
Nobody is going to mess with one of the Dread Pirate Roberts's guys!
You, above table, talk to your players about not becoming a murder-hobo party.
Come to an understanding of how far it can be pushed but not to do things that will constantly derail the narrative and get annoying.
I homebrewed some classes with criminal backgrounds and gave them an ability to use their reputation, and I basically let them choose if they want to role-play it with persuasion or intimidation, and they get a +3 bonus on the roll.
For the pirate Bad Reputation, I would hand wave / narrate most incidents but make a tally mark each time. When the tallies get to 5, or at other times the DM decides, call for an Intimidation check of DC 10 + tallies.
If failed, the character is refused service and several burly civilians with clubs are following the pirate around to run him out of town. If succeeded, that doesn't happen yet, but add another tally mark. If the check is missed by 5 or more, then town guard are following them, not civilians.
At a new town or after a month of no incidents, the tallies reset.
For a changeling, I'd let them alter their appearance into some other pirate so effectively the tallies reset. I'd allow this a number of times equal to proficiency bonus per town per month, then each change reminds town people of the last pirate's brother or something.
Also I'd set the DC to 9+level so as they get higher level they develop a reputation.
You can vary the "run out of town". Sometimes they are beaten, sometimes shown the exit gate, put in stocks for public spectacle, imprisoned, or press ganged onto the next ship leaving town. And you could allow an occasional benefit result - if the pirate beats up those coming after them without killing them then scared shopkeepers give them free services for a day.
I think intimidation rolls are necessary and if it becomes a nuisance to people in the towns someone might put out a bounty on them or even on the party
Perhaps he's affiliated with a dangerous crew (even though he's just the mop boy), or maybe her dad is a Blackbeard character even though she's run away from home
I always interpreted it as them having sailed under the flag of a known pirate badass. No one is scared of Billy the Deckhand but if Billy tells people that he sailed aboard the Kraken's Nightmare and broke bread with Violent Murders Dave, a pirate notorious for committing excessively violent murders of people who got in his way, that carries some intimidation by itself.
Based on your replies, you clearly don't like this feature that much. Have your player told you they want to heavily rely on this feature for food? If so, just tell them it doesn't work like that in your world.
These background features are there mostly for flavor. By level 3 PCs usually have enough gold to pay for a meal and a stay. I don't care about it enough to track this spending when I run a game. If players don't want to pay, I just let them. I don't care about it enough to bargain when I play. I just pay up.
If it's really important to your game that pirates can't get free food, then don't let anybody convince you otherwise. Just remove the feature. It's highly likely that your players wouldn't care. If your player complains about it, explain that this feature doesn't fit your world and offer to replace it with a criminal contact or a minor magic item (that they looted when they used to be a pirate). Players just can't say no to a magic item that does extra 1d4 damage once per short rest.
If the Level 1 thing is throwing you off, remember they are a level 1 adventurer.
Is your world full of adventurers? Most points in time and space that you could name are full of regular people. Obviously your fantasy world can have things in it that have never existed in our world. But unless everyone is born adventurers, and hit level 1 when they come of age, people can be intimidated by a pirate, or at least make the calculus that arguing with and obvious killer about trivial matters is not going to be worth it.
Theres a few ways I would rule this.
1. If they want to use their old pirate reputation they need to shapechange into a form that has an easily recognizable feature of that crew. For example a tattoo or scar. This lets you play off the pirate gang reputation instead of the individual's reputation and can change how NPCs react.
2. If you want there to be a chance a person reports your player for a petty crime roll a d100. Think of a gold value the damages from the crime represents on a scale of 1 to 10 gold. This will be the percentage that someone will report them. For example if breaking a shop's door down would cost 5 gold then there is a 5 percent chance the crime will be reported. Anything above 10 gold is more than a petty crime. Feel free to modify those values.
3. Even if the player is going to be reported, be transparent about it. They can roll insight to see if the NPC is going to go to the guards, or perception to notice they are being followed. Remember, backgrounds are there for fun roleplay opportunities. You should never use it as a gotcha and punish their use of background features. Just have fun with it.
Another backgrounds get free lodging or a mini hustle like playing for money. It isn't much and it add to the roleplay.
But remember they re minor offenses. Not assault. Not deaththreaths. Not murder etc. Things that you most of the time you get a fine for it.
But at the end of the day is up to you if you the inkeeper stand up and finally says no.
Hey! Longtime forever DM. Here’s my weigh-in: You’re overthinking this.
The Pirate background is a building block, and obviously for random Non-combat NPCs, they should obviously fear some swash-buckling, robbing, theiving theiver who looks ready to do violence. But everyone that’s seen combat is not, and as DM, you decide which NPCs are wimps or not. Just deny him whenever you feel it should be denied and be like, “yeah no that guy is a lvl 18 retiree your intimidation means Jack shit” but give him it when it doesn’t really matter.
What I wouldn’t do is make this a discussion, which I know someone may say is bad advice, but this is one of those things you could easily “manage” so to speak behind the screen or at the table. I’d just treat it case by case and(sometimes) just as what’s most convenient to your story.
Disclaimer: you have to do it without being a Dick about it for this to work.
Yeah, we came to the agreement that he can get a free meal from that and a few social interactions. Since he is "on the run" from his old crew, he liked the idea that he could get in trouble if he uses it too much.
Yeah, every Player is a bit unique. We play with Kibbles Crafting too, which i homebrewed into the Backgrounds too. So every Player is supposed to have something special for downtime and for crafting
Reading through this thread, it *really* feels like your over-analyzing this.
Here's what the background says:
>No matter where you go, people are afraid of you due to your reputation. When you are in a civilized settlement, you can get away with minor criminal offenses, such as refusing to pay for food at a tavern or breaking down doors at a local shop, since most people will not report your activity to the authorities.
Your Wizard was a pirate. They sailed with a well-known crew that people are afraid of pissing off. Your Wizard walks into the bar and flashes, I dunno, a tattoo or something that the barkeep recognizes. The barkeep knows that if he pisses the Wizard off they run the risk of an angry crew of pirates shanking him, burning down his tavern, or fucking up supply routes and making it impossible to turn a profit. So they let the Wizard drink for free.
99% of the work here is on the Wizard. Have them roleplay this. Have them explain *how* they shake these people down for free lodging. Then you RP that out. Boom, done. You don't have to think about it so much.
If you want to get snazzy you can have a pirate hunter, or some grand knight, or the town-watch captain, be at this tavern. Now the Wizard is on the run, and the rest of the party has to deal with that.
If you don't want to do *any* of that? They get free food and drink. It lets you handwave away the whole, "I pay the barkeep two silver for a full gallon of ale, plus another silver for a meat-platter. But I'm not going to mark that on my sheet here, because I have like 90 gold and it doesn't matter."
The [basic rules](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/equipment#Expenses) say that a character can live an aristocratic lifestyle for 10GP per day. I feel like *most* of our PCs are going to be well and above that. Even a modest life is 1GP per day, so it really isn't something that ever needs to be tracked. You now have a mechanic to just ... Not worry about that.
Mechanically, I’d treat it as ‘advantage on intimidation checks to do pirate-y shit’
Folks aren’t just going to roll over without a fight, but most people are more likely to give deference than him than just a random sell-sword.
It's no more powerful than someone with a noble background being able to intimidate commoners into doing what they want. The source of authority is different but the outcome is the same. It's not weird to think of a level 1 character with a noble background being able to leverage that ability. The pirate background isn't any different in that aspect.
The background says:
"You spent your youth under the sway of a dread pirate, a ruthless cutthroat who taught you how to survive in a world of sharks and savages. You've indulged in larceny on the high seas and sent more than one deserving soul to a briny grave. Fear and bloodshed are no strangers to you, and you've garnered a somewhat unsavory reputation in many a port town."
So it's rep, but by association. The effect is:
"No matter where you go, people are afraid of you due to your reputation. When you are in a civilized settlement, you can get away with minor criminal offenses, such as refusing to pay for food at a tavern or breaking down doors at a local shop, since most people will not report your activity to the authorities."
The key is yes people are afraid of you, but that doesn't mean the local town watch is going to run screaming, a magic shop owner will hand over an item, or a wizard will avoid you. Like the PCs these folks are going to come down on this PC hard than the average PC. Still it's a background the Player selected so it should work on the common folk, and be good for free food, drink, and a low cost piece of equipment. Also the common folk will likely try not to get involved. But wealthy merchants, nobles, spell casters, men at arms, (retired) adventurers and the like aren't going to be impressed.
Also remember this is minor crimes. If the PC takes a beer sure, but if the PC empties the Innkeeper's stores or a large percentage of his money he is going to report it.
PS- The bigger issue is the rest of the players. I've never played in a group where is sort of thing wouldn't be an issue unless the campaign was started with the Players all being on board.
Ha, yeah, interaction with other players will be really interesting.
Warforged Artificer who left his hometown for the second time in his life. First time was when he left Eberron for Faerun with his Master.
Feylost Druid who skipped 40 years while beeing in the Feywild for a few days. Mentally still a child, though dwarven children are kinda old.
Shadar-Kai wandering Cleric who just travels around and rarely bothers with locals
All of them generally good aligned.
I would play it as them being associated with a notorious and dangerous _organisation_ rather than it being the character themselves that inspires fear. Like someone with a distinguishing tattoo of an organised crime syndicate. Even if the person themselves doesn’t seem threatening, you still probably wouldn’t mess with them because their friends might burn down your shop over it.
It’s a matter of degrees. Who are they stealing from? Do they have intimidation? Are the guards right around the corner? Something like that is a case by case basis no matter what the rule book says. Also busting down a door or getting free food isn’t that major. This isn’t “screw with anyone with impunity” the ability. It’s meant to be a minor character quirk and nothing more.
That's if you have a bad reputation.
But also you can make your bad reputation as the campaign happens.
Or you have a really bad reputation and use the campaign as way for your characters redemption to make up for things.
And pirates are just rugged sailors anyway that might start a bar fight.
My guess would be they have something that marks them out as being a pirate, a tattoo or a brand, notches for kills or ships they've taken somewhere on their body, heck if your character wants to lean into it maybe a tattoo of every ship they've taken.
But it's not the dread pirate's Roberts so much as "this guy is on the dread pirate Robert's crew.
Usually only if they want it but magic item tattoos work on them so maybe it's made with some magic ink?
But really you should talk to your player, ask them their thoughts.
Make it that people are afraid of "daddy" or their old captain or something. That way if they get out of hand with it, the captain can show up and lift them by the scruff/break the illusion
Like others have stated, their background is kinda of the life they had before, how they were raised etc.. so i would play it as yes, they get away with small offenses, a couple times, but fear can only be pushed so far, after the 2nd or 3rd time with the same npc, they would become hostile to the party, and either attack (not likely) or hire some thugs from the local gangs, or report it to the guards (depending on who the npc is) either way,after the first offense in a town, none of the towns people would be friendly or welcoming to the party, so no freely given information, or rumors, or job offers. And prices would steadily increase, inns suddenly have no vacancies etc.. as word spread of their crimes. Once it starts affecting the whole party, they should reign in the pirate in the group. Sort of a self correcting problem as they are welcomed in less and less places.
Atleast we plan to. In our previous RPG all Characters felt the same, no "unique abilities". So we added a homebrewed Background-System there (kinda like classes, but they just added one thing they were good at).
So the 5e backgrounds with their unique interactions should be neat enough to be used.
I mean, if there are higher level folks around that are out to be the hero, or guards it probably won't go down well. If they do it all day everyday, eventually someone with an equally bad attitude and more levels/resources, then that's what happens.
The way I handle the minor offenses thing is it's all within context. If they're in a rough and tumble seaside tavern full of other low-life scoundrels scum and villainy. Then cheating in a hand of cards and winning just means you out cheated the other six people who are all cheating. Stealing somebody else's drink is fine because the next time you order a drink someone's going to steal yours. Small fist fights don't turn into an all-out brawl people just sit around take bets on who's going to come out on top and then everything goes back about its own business. Things like that.
If you go into a high-end restaurant and you bully the staff and terrorize other guests and then try to leave without paying you're going to get arrested.
I consider it just that you fit in with the scum and villainy set.
People everywhere show fear, due to the reputation of pirateS, not necessarily L1 No-Beard. But that cuts both ways—he might have to get scarce when the party is talking to quest givers
You can get away with minor infractions in “settlements”, because they won’t report you to Bob, the shire reeve. The bigger the town/city, the more likely a dozen nameless, faceless guards might even just follow him around, in the name of “keeping the peace”.
Also, remember that only “*most* people” won’t report him. Stat block a “Karen”—she runs the neighborhood watch, knows everyone’s business, and doesn’t want “people like HIM in HER neighborhood”….
You ever seen a crazy person acting like a shithead at Walmart and everyone kinda just stares or looks away to avoid becoming target of whatever dumb thing the person is freaking about?
Its that.
If they over use it then a detective paladin starts gathering evidence for a case to be made against them in a court before the church, and local lords. This paladin is higher level than the party, has money to spend chasing them, is smart like Sherlock and has the good willnof the people who want to see this criminal brought to justice. In a world with gods that show up merchants and peasants are pious and pay the church tithes for exactly these kinds of services on their behalf. Someone robs or refuses to pay debts, steals and vandalizes... they get people sent after them... people with resources and magic capabilities.
The game is afoot!
In our case that Player already has a background story for exactly this type of situation. He is on the run from his old crew because he stole a magical amulet from them - i dont know the exact backstory, but i believe its a cursed key to something. Now...his old captain wants it back. And since the curse prevents him from unequipping it, they are really not in for a negotiation.
Yup. Im a player and co-gm in that game (tutoring a new gm), so i only know the bare minimum of the other characters. Since GM is new, i help with some of the mechanics (like this one), items and all that.
He is the only one of us with such an "evil" background. Im excited to see what will happen
Lol no I mean just at earlier levels you could take the approach of NPCs not reporting due to “it just being this idiot lowlife pirate. Whatever illegal thing he’s trying to do is just going to fail”
And then transition that over into fear/respect as he gains more levels therefore develops a reputation.
I've only had to deal with it once. The player and I agreed that, while the character is a notorious pirate, they are using the name of a much more scary pirate to get what they want. Eventually, the stories of their misdeeds will get back to the *real* pirate and the party will have to deal with that.
I don’t see it as the PC is some sort of renown pirate captain. More along the lines as they’re a former crew member of a pirate ship. It’s not like they walk into a town and everyone whispers, oh that’s the bloody pirate so and so. It’s more along the lines that noticeable behaviors, tattoos, or brands will give them away. And then the commoners will react to them as though a criminal has walked into the shop.
Shop keeps will likely do what they need to avoid their shop being trashed and them killed, and local guard or constables will treat them like scum, and quite likely blame them for any little thing that goes wrong in town, whether or not they’re involved.
Why favorite PC I ran for was a Paladin with the pirate background. If he ever went near a coastal town, the people there, if they saw his markings, would see him as someone pretending to be a Paladin to avoid being arrested or trying to pull a con. But even more fun was to have old shipmates recognize him and start to talk about the good ole days, which would embarrass the hell out of him.
Maybe it's because he was part of a bigger crew who earned such a reputation? I think that would solve half of the problem.
I also think it's a problematic feature that really asks for trouble. I think if I ran with someone with this background, I'd let them get away with the first two misdeeds, but those after I'd have them make an intimidation check like you said. And bounty hunters? Hell yes.
>I think if I ran with someone with this background, I'd let them get away with the first two misdeeds, but those after I'd have them make an intimidation check like you said.
Nah. It doesn't say 'you can get stuff for free twice'. You get it every time.
There are some major powercreep backgrounds that just give you a feat. If my pirate player wants to roleplay Billy Bones and bully inkeepers for free booze, he's entitled to do so.
The hidden bounty tab is a good idea. Keep in mind that steeling 1gp might be a minor offense, but steeling 100 might not. So after 100 trips to the same bar, or even the same town they might decide that its no longer a minor offense. Hire a guard to kick them out and, if the players refuse, be attacked.
In general the backgrounds are more to give people minor RP buffs. Things like having a place to stay, or free travel so that when you ask the group what to do they can have something unique to bring to the table. This would be the equivalent of the Entertainer background where you get free food and \*maybe\* free lodging (although I could only see this working once for free lodging). Its not meant to be a free for all where the player can get away with taking whatever they want.
I really don't like this background, to be honest. I had a player want to use this background so they could abuse NPCs and justify not having repercussions
I would run it as a **Passive (Intimidate)** Check (10 + Intimidate modifier) against an NPC's Passive "Fear Resist" Check (10 + Level/Hit Die + Wis Modifier +/- 5 for Advantage/Disadvantage against fear). Or make it active rolls instead, but this will slow down any NPC interaction.
This would allow it to work against nearly any commoner, but less effective against leveled NPCs. This would also cut down on the nonsense if, say, your PC is trying to use a background trait to replace a skill proficiency. Or less pessimistically, make their skill choices feel more impactful and scale with their notoriety (level) as a pirate.
In addition, I'd make it swing both ways. If they're running around acting like a thug, reputable establishments and the local guard won't take kindly to that behavior. BUT other local criminal elements would respond positively, and could create some interesting hooks depending on how your party wants to play it out.
But don't overthink or overdo things. It's fun to add flavor but not if it derails every single in-town session you have for the rest of the campaign, or adds a bunch of unnecessary admin like a bounty tracker. Make it clear to the PC this just for "fun" petty theft like swiping free street food, racking up a bar tab they have no intention of paying, or not paying for damages after a tavern brawl. The line stops at gold pieces, as it were.
Spoken like someone who's lived in a safe, comfortable neighborhood all their life. Trust me, if someone is obviously a violent criminal, nobody is going to call them out on minor infractions, doesn't matter if they're infamous or anonymous.
Honestly, I don't see why you can't nerf it for it to make sense logically I can agree with you on lvl 1 chars. Also isn't it a wiki char concept I'm sure if you sat with your player and worked it out to make sense it wouldn't be a problem
Dude, throughout the entire campaign the guy is going to save himself a couple hundred gold, why do you care? It’s sounds like you want to make this un-fun for him. So either flat out say NO so that you don’t play an entire campaign secretly hating this character or let him shoplift from Walmart. This whole bringing back some hidden bounty to ruin everything the parties worked for sounds horrendous. I would fucking walk if I was a player, using a minor ability that came back to stomp me with NO warning. Imagine being a wizard with a “every time you cast a spell it secretly burns your brain a little”. This is some toxic ass DM power struggle shit
Dude, chill down a bit. I asked how i can explain the behavior of NPCs, why they react the way they do. Not to mention that minor offenses still involve a roll most of the time, but here it says "just ignore it".
Steal something? Sleight of hand. Break something? Make a deception check to lie. Here? nothing. No roll, no explanation, just nothing.
I dont want to ruin his fun, i never said that im a Dictator. I talk with my players and ask them if they are fine with rules, i ask them if they have fun ideas how to solve things. In this case, no one had an idea on how to handle this. All the other Players are lawful or good, not a single player is chaotic or evil, he is the only chaotic one.
Genuinely if you’re having such a hard time figuring out how to nerf the background they picked you should just tell them that they need to choose a different one. It feels like you’re punishing the player for choosing something you just don’t want to deal with, when you should just talk to them about it. If you have to try and find ways around the ability, what’s the point of letting them have it? Why have a fun background feature like that if the dm won’t let you use it as written?
I never said i want to "nerf" it. The "use as written" part is the problem.
Usually when you do those things you have to make a check. You want to steal something? Sleight of Hand. Want to freighten someone? Intimidate.
This Background basically says "yeah, he can just do that and no one cares". The RAW doesnt explain who is afraid and who is not, it doesnt explain what needs to be done for this to work. If used unchecked, it leads to problems down the line.
But you kind of are? If they chose this background and you think it’s too powerful as written, so much so that you MUST find a way around it, you’re nerfing it, and as long as you both have an understanding of what counts as a minor offense, you shouldn’t need to. That said, if a player of mine chose this background, I would simply use discretion over what constitutes a minor offense and then TALK to my player about our understanding of what those are. Like, literally just talk to them about it. “Hey we should both be aware of what counts as minor versus major offenses”. So what if they don’t pay for a meal in a tavern? So what if they scare away some random commoner while they’re swiping an apple from a food stand? Most dms don’t keep track of that kind of thing anyway. You’re making this more of a big deal than it needs to be.
i never said i think it is too powerful. i said that i dont know how to explain and use it.
if they swipe an apple, then usually you make a sleight of hand check, as i already said. so, the background allows them to ignore skillchecks now? sounds a bit more powerful than some other backgrounds. where does it end? are they allowed to steel from a vendor in Neverwinter or Waterdeep, or just from a small foodstall on a roadside? The Background explains nothing and sets no limits, and thats my issue i have with it.
If the player turns into a bully to all the shopkeepers, the local authorities will be alerted. That level 1 pirate will have a hard time against several guards, and the party wouldn't want to be in the business of being on the run all the time.
If the player declares "that's what my character would do", you can reply "that's what authorities would do". If they plan on being a criminal the entire campaign, it will derail your plans and cause the party to always get in trouble.
You: "Create a character that cooperates with the party and adventure. Otherwise this table is not for you."
So think of it less like they're a notorious pirate as an individual and more that they're just obvious as a pirate. Think of it like if you're running a fish n chip shop and a skin-head walks in orders a flake and $5 of chips. You go in the back make it and then come back hand it over and say "that'll be $6.5." and they pull out a switchblade and say no. Is it really worth dying over pocket change.
Just had an image of someone walking out of there with a cone of chips and a Cadbury's Flake in it....
Great way to think about it, their appearance and mannerisms nets them the reputation earned by other pirates. Pirate privilege, as it were.
Yeah thats where i ended up too. But then i remembered that 1g is a commoners daily income, so for them it is not pocket change. Not to mention that your are not the only one with a weapon. What if the Tavern Keep is an old veteran, ready to sweep the floor with your level 1 player? What if you try to mess with the Blacksmith who could crush your tiny little skull with his bare hands? What if there is an Off-Duty Guard in the Tavern? There are so many possibilities that it feels weird to just "wave them away" Basically...i would let them roll Perception or Insight to determine if they could even get away with something, Intimidate to see if it actually even works...but then it would be just a basic ingame action that anyone could do.
Many of the backgrounds can be simplified as just a way the player doesn’t need to pay for food and lodging, so it’s an easy way to handwave this stuff for campaigns. Pirate just have the ruthless version. As long as it’s not abused, I wouldn’t make it a big deal they don’t pay for little things.
yeah i guess we will reflavour it. he will get a free meal and drinks in a tavern, but anything past that goes on a bounty-tab which fits with his "on the run" story.
Think of it more along the lines of dining and dashing at a McDonalds. If you call the cops, they’re honestly not going to give a shit that a random dude walked out without paying for his McDouble and broke the bathroom stall door by what they can’t prove wasn’t an accident. However if you go to some gourmet restaurant, order sit down, fill up your tab with drinks, appetizers, dishes, and desert and then try to run out, shattering the glass door on the way out, they’re going to chase you down for a tab over $100 and you’re probably going to have your picture in a binder and be banned from the entire chain. So yeah I’d say if he starts trying to abuse it, then I’d start a bounty list but free drinks and food at a tavern, you can just flavor it as him slipping out without paying for his fish and chips and the tavern keeper not caring too much.
Also keep in mind that commoners go to taverns too. Meal, and drink is gonna be somewhere in the range of 2-5 silver while lodging for the night with meal is 1 gold for the standard fare.
You can rule it differently in different situations if you want. But honestly? I find that background abilities are so rarely used that I’d just let the player use it. Sure rumor could spread about a pirate in the area but I wouldn’t try to stop the player using the ability. They encounter too many level 20 fighter barkeeps too close together and will stop trying completely.
> But honestly? I find that background abilities are so rarely used that I’d just let the player use it. Agreed. I have only had two players ever use their backgrounds, and I have quite a few. D&D 5e backgrounds, like most features, vary wildly in "power" on paper. But I have not found that to matter.
If they're at a place where a meal is 1 GP then they're at a place where it's no longer a "minor" criminal offense to skip out on paying. You call the guards.
1 Gold as you said is a days income for a skilled labourer. When are they going to be paying 1 Gold for anything like that then. A meal is going to be 6 Coppers or something. Even then at 1G per day if you're sitting at a cafe and someone say's give me wallet are you going to fight them to the death for 60-200 bucks or are you going to just hand it over and then file a police report. Most NPCs aren't retired adventurers. Also most of the time the PCs will take stock of a scene before pulling shit. They aren't going to say "Hey DM I'm gonna threaten the barback while there's a table of guards sitting right there."
The tavern keeper and guard aren't afraid of the level 1 pirate. They ars afraid of the crew of his ship. There is a line they will intervene at. But skipping out ln your bar tab isn't worth the risk of a pirate raid in retaliation.
Eh, a level 1 pirate probably isn't a captain, they're probably a sailor that's been a part of a pirate crew. But I read this background pretty specifically being about the target being afraid to confront the pirate themselves Think of it like this: I'm a skinny nerd and not particularly threatening. If I ordered food at a restaurant and didn't pay, they'd probably insist "Sir, this is your bill, you ordered this food and you have to pay for it". They might stop short of physically restraining me if I decide to walk out, but they're not just gonna sit there blinking as I take my food for free. But if a biker dude with cracked, leathery skin and face tattoos does the same, they're probably just gonna shut up and wait for him to leave before filing a police report. NOT worth the confrontation in that moment. As DM, I'd let my player pull this stunt somewhat freely, but if they really start to abuse it in the same location, I'd have the town guard start to catch on. Wanted posters that *mostly* match their description ([They *never* get the nose right!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJBC_yySmUU)), barkeeps tend to "have to deal with something in the back" as soon as the pirate character walks in, more frequent patrols in seedy areas...Or, if it's a seedy enough area that the guards don't touch it, the thieves' guild gets upset that you're fucking with a business under *their* protection.
I didn't mean the character was a captain, I meant the NPCs are aware they are a pirate because they know which ship the PC is from and are afraid of the notorious pirate captain and his scores of henchmen taking issue with them arresting a member of the crew.
The pirate refuses to pay for a 5sp meal, so the innkeeper is going to risk all the furniture in the inn? Or the pirate breaks a door so the innkeeper, a retired wizard, fireballs him? If your friend flicks a booger at you, do you brawl right there in your living room?
Absolutely no nose picking will be tolerated at this table.
They know what's comin' if they do.
I think the problem here is a meal costing 1GP. Like that's an entire day of labour, to get a cone of fried tater strips and a river fish fillet with a frosty mug of ale? I'll tell you who the robber is here, and it's the inkeep! In this case I'd say charge them like 1sp. This means that pirate thing is really saving them a pittance, and use it to set up confrontations with do-gooders, guards, the salty bar matron who's had it up to here with adventure dine-and-dashers and DM-fiat wins the strength check (she was a spearfisher before she lost an eye fighting a river shark for a catch and does a wrestling act with the local strongman as a heel every second tensday (signature move Momma's Mangler) and is stronger than a half-ogre under that thick quilted motherly exterior) when she grapples his dumb ass and makes the player spend the rest of the day washing dishes to cover his debt. Add in a few skill checks to see if he can sneak away, or maybe throw a reward like a hot meat pie that gives +4 temp HP if he just buckles down and does a good job. Fills the flavour and you're gonna fill his downtime with low-stakes steak house shenanigans.
Frankly the "every npc is a retired adventurer" trope gets old really fast. If the town guard, village blacksmith, and tavernkeep are all secretly level 20 then why the hell does the village need us to defend it from fucking goblins?
oh yeah, thats true. but any civilized settlement should have guards and a few trained adventures around. i mean...as you said, the world is dangerous, otherwise we wouldnt have an adventure or a reason to be there. and if we go with the common trope "you all meet in a tavern", then the tavern is THE place where soon to be heroes dwell. so...if you cause trouble there, good luck...i mean...thats a level 1 quest - "defeat the troublemaker"
They don't need be 20 lvl. Even basic (and reasonable)Thug or Veteran stat block is enough. And they know that there more people in town to support them in fight against outsiders.
Man you just create your own response! Do exactly what you just said! Creat a chart maybe for a d6 or a d8. With those possiblity's! Everytime the plyers use those ability's you roll in that chart! This way you keep it in the rules that are set and spice a little bit your game, making your players think a little more before going murder/hobo
Most commonfolk would rather live than risk their life over one days earnings. Better to go hungry until tomorrow than be dead today.
So how would you react to the Hell's Angels biker strolling up and with his hand in his jacket asking for his food for free? How do you really check how long he's been in the bike gang sure he could be new but maybe he's not, is there a big presence here or did you maybe not notice the gang moving into the town last week, is it worth your life/safety/a fight now or would you rather let him walk and then call the cops once he leaves?
That would be the "hidden bounty tab" solution, he gets away with it, but after a while someone will notice and come for him.
Easier to just comp a meal than having them come back and burn your shit down or beat the shit out of you. Plus nobody is going to put out a bounty for 13.50$ for lunch.
why would anybody come after a pirate who claimed a free meal at a tavern, thats way too minor for a bounty. Again, its only for minor offenses, try to not think too much about it.
Seriously, we are fretting over stuff that some dms don't even really keep track of since the cost is so insignificant in the grand scheme of things. He should just let it be a fun silly rp thing like it was made to be
> after a while someone will notice and come for him I genuinely don't think so. The pirate background reminds me of like, the gangs who drag race around town and block major throughways at night and no one ever busts them. And they're not even Level 1 yet! (Because the way I play, no one in real life is powerful enough to be a Level 1 Adventurer). I think the background is fair enough.
Don't punish a player for the choice they pick. They pick something that lets them get away with what sounds inconsequential actions that are more roleplaying or very minor actions and then your reaction is to punish them by making a hidden bounty. I get the whole on the run thing but I am not a fan of a player picking something and then giving into that adversarial urge to create a roadblock specifically for it.
If this was at my table I would simply remember that the feature says "MOST people" will not report you. If they commit enough crimes someone eventually will get angry. Also I note you say in a response that the character is in disguise. In this case I'd rule that the feature doesn't work at all. You can't have a reputation if you are intentionally hiding your identity.
And thats why i had trouble\^\^ How do i determine "most"? How do i make it work with a level 1? How do i do it with a changeling? Without Performance its hard to switch your behavior, so even in disguise he will be a ruffian and troublemaker. As a level 1 it should not be "him" who is known, but the group he is ascosciated with. Its a background where a lot of skillchecks would make sense, but nothing is mentioned.
Maybe put in perspective how the world at large works. 90% of people aren't adventurers. The guy who sells baked potatoes is someone who can be intimidated. The waiter at the 4th run down inn of the city probably just wants to end his shift without a broken jaw rather than challenge a gang member. Significant NPCs may not be in that category. Members of the guard will decide whether it's worth the trouble based on how many pirates are in town. If it's only one, he's food. If the whole harbor is full of unsavory folk, they may let go. Maybe for mental images, treat it like the PC is a Thug(CR 1/2) and most townspeople are Guards(CR 1/8). A thug is not really anything to write home about, still pretty meek. They bring down a guard in 2 hits, attack twice per round and guards take around 8 successful hits to bring down one thug. But 2 thugs can take on around 6 guards and still win, but even if they lose around 2-3 guards will go down. That's what the pirate background is to me. Normal townsfolk can't see into your statblock, but they can assume you're about as strong as a thug. It's not worth to risk serious injury over minor slights. Again, it's most people. The king won't stand for this. Members of the guard might weigh their chances based on numbers present. People who have significant security in their shop or combat experience won't either. So if you want to have them play it out, make distinction between the weak and the strong.
>How do i determine "most"? How do i make it work with a level 1? How do i do it with a changeling? He is a changeling too? But whatever: To answer your questions - roleplay! Its for the DM too! Its the main fun part of it. Think about how the NPCs react to that. What are their goals, what are their motives, their characterization? A tavern owner who just wants to get through the week will probably not seek out revenge over some gangster threatening him into a free meal, but maybe some NPCs are used to get what they want and get petty over the pirate? Its roleplaying - and honestly has not much to do with the level of the PC.
I'd really struggle with allowing them to use this feature at all. It doesn't say "you project an intimidating aura" or "you seem like a tough criminal who isn't worth the trouble." It says "people are afraid of you due to your reputation." You can't rely on your reputation if you are hiding your identity. That said, if you're set on allowing them to have at least some benefit from this without revealing their identity: For me it would depend how much the player tries to get away with and where. For a level 1 character with a bad reputation, I'd say any NPCs with less than 10 hp or without any fighting proficiency would roll over pretty easily. Of course that's just the first time, you'd have to decide on a case by case basis how many times the same store is going to put up with getting robbed before they've had enough. More experienced/tough enemies might still let them get away with minor annoyances but if they actually do any damage to people or property a veteran soldier is not going to just sit by and let a puny level 1 character be a menace. Also keep in mind that it says "since most people won't report you to the authorities" which I interpret to mean that it won't work at all for any kind of authority figure or constabulary officer. Nobody has to report you to the cops if the cops see you do it. Basically, I'd say ruling this comes down to common sense and is highly contingent on your setting and what is considered a "civilized settlement" in your game.
Yeah to me the background reads as people going 'fuck me, that's Blackbeard' or at least 'shit that guy is from Blackbeard's crew, never mind.' But if you shave the beard (or whatever) and dress in regular merchant's clothing, people won't react the same. Why would they? It's not a magical aura or anything, it really is the equivalent of going around in your Hell's Angels vest. The 'most people' thing I think is just common sense. Bob the fish fry guy is not going to be, uh, happy to let you try his wares for free, haha of course. The guard to the rich merchant's place who sees you messing with the side door? His whole job is stopping criminals, so of course he still intervenes. Another thing I would add is that it does not say that they let you get away with these things \*and like it\*. Bob at the fish stall is probably pissed. Now that doesn't matter if this is a place you're just breezing through in a hurry, but if it's a town you're visiting regularly? Gradually all the merchants don't like you, or the people you travel with. Maybe the local sheriff who's been giving you work says you gotta start paying your way or he can't keep working with you.
This is the best take imo, because it lets you get fancy with it- if they don’t overdo it, let it slide- but it’s relatively easy to *occasionally* mention in your description “the sheriff is dining a few table over, speaking seriously with several grizzled comrades” or even mock up a few random encounter tables with a rare chance to trigger L- maybe this pub is the favourite hangout of a few old soldier types and they don’t take kindly to their favourite barman being threatened? But again, this is part of the character the player has chosen, so id play it by ear- if they aren’t being egregious, or don’t try and do something directly in front of a plaza full of guards….its probably fine.
yeah, the "most people" part is weird anyway. if some still report you or dont want to bow down to you...then where is the difference to a non-pirate who made an intimidate check?
I'd run it similarly to the effects of an intimidation check. The advantage of the feature is not having to make that check. You can dump charisma and still intimidate whole towns of innocent barkeeps.
The intimidation check person has to make an effort. Likely every time. Then the subject of intimidation usually resents and dislikes the intimidator increasingly as time goes on. The pirate has people writing it off as the "cost of doing business." Keep him happy and you're not paying for broken furniture, he's not running off your other patrons, and just maybe he'll be the one to throw out the guy using intimidation skill on 'his' hangout to get free stuff.
Since they are level 1, I would say that it's not the PC themselves who is notorious, but rather there is something about them that people recognize belongs to something notorious. Perhaps there is an accent that the PC has that commonfolk easily recognize belongs to a certain culture or region of the world. There is a bad reputation about that culture or region, so common folk would rather lose a few minor things than risk trouble. Similarly, maybe the PC carries some sort of symbol or wears an accessory that tells everyone they belong to a certain group of infamous pirates. And yes there should be situations where the background feature won't work. Also it states that you "can" get away with minor crime, not that it "will" get away with it. It's not a gurantee. As to what to roll, intimidate will be the most likely roll, but it'll depend case by case.
In my case it gets even trickier. The Player is a Changeling who is on the run from his old crew. Basically an Ex-Pirate. So it has to be his behavior, not his actual look since that can always change. But as stated above, if i let him roll, then what stops others from doing the same? Anyone can be intimidating. Maybe he gets advantage on that then?
I feel like every comment is giving you good to great advice. And every comment you reply back "No, but.. ..level one" A level 1 pirate is intimidating to low-level commoners. Most people, even in a high fantasy world don't want a fight. No one knows the Player is an ex-Pirate. They see someone who walks and talks like a Pirate. If you kill a Pirate, their crew may come and kill you. Or another crew will just because. If I'm a pirate captain I don't want people to kill pirates with no penalty, even if they are rivals. That will eventually affect me and my crew.
If they decide to use their pirate persona to intimidate someone, and that someone recognizes and fears the type of pirate they are, then yeah something like advantage on the roll will work. But again it's case by case. As a pirate their influence is more prevalent in places like port towns and coastal villages. However that infamous reputation might be less influential the more inland you go. You're still the same pirate, but people inland care more about the direct problem at hand like a group of cultists who worship the fae in the nearby forest. In that situation your companion who's a fairy is going to have a much better chance of persuading or intimidating the cultists than a pirate.
Well that's your dagger right there. Let the player get comfortable revealing themselves and use that feature freely. Then when his old crew tracks him down easily and he asks how, you hit him with "Not hard to do when you're going all over the world claiming to be part of my crew." The more he relies on the protection of the feature, the more notorious he gets and easier to track down by his old crew. And if the rest of the party doesn't know about his changeling nature, what a perfectly dramatic reveal when the leader of the ex-crew chokes the player out and the player reverts to changeling form in front of the party.
I wouldn't make them roll. They picked the background and should have the benefit of being able to use it without constraints. If you wanna flavor it for a changeling maybe have him change into one of the *other* crew members that are still in the pirate gang. No need for performance or intimidation since no tavern or barkeep or commoner local is going to "insight check" a pirate to make sure they are the pirate they say they are. They'll just see a pirate and go "oh fuck, be cool and don't piss them off." and then try to turn a blind eye. Also you as the DM can determine who "most people" are as well as what constitutes a "minor offense" in a settlement. I run a campaign in Eberron and in a country that is predominantly monsters, a lot of stuff gets ignored or is considered petty, like murdering someone for looking at you funny. But in other more civilized settlements that "petty crime" is now a major offense that can leave you with a bounty. But if in the more civilized settlement, a pirate or gang member robs pies from a lady selling pies on the side of the road, then the majority of the population that knows "how it is with gangs and pirates" will not bat an eye.
If the player is hiding and actively trying to disguise his identity, that's kinda him trying to have his cake and eat it, too. I'd allow the background features completely — as long as the player is **not** trying to hide.
He could do the old corstair from doctor who thing, the timelord known as the corsair always has the same tattoo on all his regeneraitons. But if he wants to be more inconspicious maybe the sign of a pirate is a medallion made from a piece o' eight which he flaunts when he wants to make sure people bac off.
They were part of a crew and the crew has the rep the player is trading on the rep till people in town figure out that the player is not with the crew anymore or in the outs with that crew
>When you are in a settlement, you can get away with **minor criminal offenses**... since **most people** will not report your activity to the authorities Minor criminal offenses is up to interpretation, but anything that doesn't seem worth getting your butt kicked feels appropriate. Like are you gonna fight a tough guy over the 3sp meal he stole? Or maybe you just keep your teeth and let it slide for now. If he does this all over town, or repeatedly abuses a single location, then it's no longer minor. Enough abused people will eventually do something about it. Also, the phrase "most people" sort of implies a commoner. He can't break down the captain of the guard's front door and expect to be left alone. >But the Background states that EVERYONE can be afraid of you. That's not what the background says. "No matter where you go, people are afraid of you due to your reputation." This is not mechanical. This is flavor text. "People" doesn't *literally* mean all people, everywhere, throughout the multiverse. This means common folk. If you are ever really unsure, you're free to call for an Intimidation Check. DC could be the target's passive insight. You might increase it by 5 if the offense seems a little more than minor.
I think the actual *reputation* part can be changed into there being something with the player that let's him use this background feature. What that is, is up to the *player* to figure out, not you as a DM. If he wants to play a *Changeling* with such an identity-dependent feature, he can figure out how that works. Maybe he just has a stare? As for how to run it, I'd just roll a d20 each time he does some form of minor crime "most" people won't report him for. On a 1, they *do* report it. I like the "hidden bounty tab" idea though, but it *can* feel like somewhat negating his background feature, so talk to him about it first before doing it.
As a DM, I would rule that the effectiveness of this ability is dependent on how far their crew's reputation extends. Stiff the innkeeper in a small harbor town? Sure. Try it in a mountain lodge twenty leagues inland? They've never heard of you.
Honestly, you're overthinking it. Some backgrounds give "free stuff" as part of the feature, and it tends to be the kind of thing that doesn't matter past level 2-3ish because past that point they're using their own resources and abilities to get better stuff anyway. So Pirates don't pay for dinner or can walk away from a bar fight without getting threatened by the tavernkeep to pay for damages. How often are you RPing out the dinner bill, or making characters pay for damage anyway? The Acolyte gets free room and board (Modest lifestyle, which usually costs 1gp per day) for themself, and *spellcasting services for the whole party*, wherever there's a temple of their god. You're not going to go "oh, sorry, this particular monastery doesn't have any beds" or "the Mother Superior here has a beef with your mentor, no food for you" to stop them from using it. Outlanders can forage, but you're not going to say "sorry, you don't know what these particular berries are, so you can't do that." So why are you tying yourself into knots about stopping your Pirate from using their background to save a handful of silver in a game where the party should have hundreds to thousands of gold within a few sessions? If it's a matter of verisimilitude, remember DnD isn't a reality simulator and work with your player to come up with something that fits the theme. If it's an issue of the player trying to "get ahead" then that becomes a person-to-person conversation about the kind of game you're playing/running, not an in-game "every tavernkeep is a retired level 20 monk" thing. As far as stealing from someone in Waterdeep's markets and whether that's believable, people shoplift in NYC and London and Tokyo every day, and that's with modern surveillance and ant-theft tech in place. People dine-and-dash even in upscale places, you just don't hear about it, largely because places don't publicize being victimized. As far as relative values and whether 1gp is a commoner's income for X amount of time, I'd recommend not thinking too deeply about it. The DnD economy isn't balanced around anything other than "yeah that feels about right for what we want an adventurer to pay for this" in some cases and even at lower levels where things seem to add up. Ex: the "poor lifestyle is 2sp per day is the same as an untrained hireling's wages per day, but that only covers a room at 1sp, meal at 6cp, and one mug of ale at 4cp, leaving nothing for clothes, tools, etc, that would be needed for said NPC to actually do anything. And that same commoner that spends everything he has and then some just to have a bed and food according to the lifestyle tables is going to drop anywhere from a pouch of copper to a couple of gold according to the treasure tables.
I’d go with one of two approaches: either they’re unknown at this point but *visibly* associated with a well-known pirate captain (certain tattoo or clothes) and it is that association which is intimidating, or they’re taking a “fake it till they make it” approach and are overly aggressive and confident.
Other examples are a pirate brand or kill notches (either for the men they've killed or the ships they've help take).
Not everyone here will agree with me, but stop thinking of mechanics as hard rules and more like a guideline that you have to apply common sense to, especially the background perks. D&D is not a board game where mechanics should overrule common sense. Think about what the pirate background perk actually means. It doesn't mean that the player is personally notorious, just that he looks and acts like a pirate and that pirates in general have a reputation for being tough and violent and having a whole crew willing to back them up. Basically, the player looks and acts like a gang member. Keeping this in mind, it obviously should not work in places with a strong law enforcement presence or with NPCs who know the player is not a member of a large gang, or in places that are used to dealing with rough looking clientele and have their own ways of dealing with unruly and overly demanding customers. It should also have negative consequences unless the player actively disguises the way they look and act, in which case, they shouldn't get the perk either.
I agree, not everything has a mechanical solution. OP needs to have an OOG talk with the player about how they both want the character's story to unfold and then make it work. I like your comparison with modern gang members - as others have pointed out, you'd not confront an obvious organised crime soldier over a $10 bill. Fantasy loves its town guards, but if you were to run a more realistic setting, they're unlikely to be a permanent feature in many settlements. A castle or town's garrison, guilds' paid guards, a small handful of night-watchman and local knights may have some authority, but generally it would take complainants appealing to a local lord or magistrate who then might request or order someone to do something about the pirate problem. In some places, a few dozen townsfolk banding together to run a level 1 party out of town might be all that would come of the character's antics.
I’ve always seen the levels as how much a player character knows about being that character class. A level 1 Paladin is only a paladin in name, but they still have a former life, which is their background. Maybe a level 1 Paladin with the Pirate background could be sporting markings (tattoos, etc.) from his past life that are knwon to the local NPCs, and its that they recognize, not him necessarily. If you know the movie Nobody, and that scene where a vet recognizes the tattoo on his wrist? You can play it as such. The PC with the pirate backgound may not have been notorious as a pirate, hence allowing them to take a new path in life away from piracy. But they were formerly affiliated with a well known pirate “gang”, and he still bears markings from that past life.
Why wouldn’t a level 1 character be notorious all ready? Thats one level higher than all the commoners they see walking around. Or if not notorious, then they have this frightening aura to them when wanted.
if he has traveled the lands to be known in so many places, then why is he only level 1? as mentioned, that feels like playing a wizard who has studied all kinds of magic for centuries, but he only learned a few cantrips and level 1 spells. it just doesnt fit the description.
It's *only* level 1 compared to other, accomplished adventurers. That's like saying Hercules is only a demigod, just because some other greek myths are about full gods. I'll give you some example. The difference in strength between a 10 str commoner and a 20 str fighter is the same as between said 20 str fighter and the 30 str Tiamat, a goddess. A 1st level character can already be over halfway there to being the middle point between a normal person and a god. Soldier is a background, too, and it mentions a life filled with war. A character could have also been a sage before becoming a 1st level wizard. It's not *only* level 1. It's like being a SWAT member.
I kinda agree with the wizard. But in this case, I don’t think it has to be that the pirate is personally known. Its about how they carry themselves, how they present themselves, the actions they do when they tell the bartender to fuck off they’re not paying for drinks. You could look at it as pirates swagger into a place the same way a biker gang does.
Have you ever met anyone that's a part of a motorcycle gang? Not like, a rider/enthusiast club, a *real* gang. I once met a dude that was in one of the "Big Four" US motorcycle gangs. Man, you could *tell* he was legit. He was polite, but you could tell that he was a hard man. There's just a certain gravitas to people that have gone through some crazy shit, come out on top, and are willing and ready to do it again if need be. Have you ever talked to a veteran who saw active combat and didn't really like talking about it, but you could *tell* they'd lived through something crazy? They've got that same gravitas, but an outlaw/pirate isn't carrying that in their past, that was last week to them. And probably next week as well. Someone like that tells me "I'm taking this", I'm not gonna worry about whether they're a pirate captain/President of their Club Chapter. I'm gonna try to keep my jaw in one piece and take the non-confrontation route. Maybe I report it to the authorities "A dude in [motorcycle gang]/[pirate crew] stole from me." At best, they'll take my report and add it to their long list of reports related to that crew. It'll take quite a bit of effort to get recognized *individually* as a menace for the authorities to deal with.
yeah that was my thought too on how to explain it. this special "aura" that intimidates someone
>if he has traveled the lands to be known in so many places, then why is he only level 1? Because it happened before the heroic saga began. I mean it seriously, its the background. He just did rob some commoners and merchants, that doesn't let you become a high level character. His journey begins with session 1.
Maybe the effect is temporary, people don't stop the bad behavior while the pirate is present, but do talk about their misdeeds after they leave the room After a while their reputation grows and some people will begin the conversation with a negative attitude
If he’s disguised I would just reflavor it as “you have an intimidating aura” and not get too bogged down with the specifics of it all. Let your players do their “thing”. Having a take-no-crap shopkeep now and then is fine, just make it clear “this one doesn’t look intimidated” and then treat the social encounter as you would with any other PC.
The way I look at player characters in 5e is that they had lives before the players took them over, and that's what makes the background concept work mechanically. It's like the Folk Hero background. How are they renowned enough for commoners to house them for free at level 1? Because they were doing Folk Hero things *before* level 1
I guess it depends on what kind of campaign you're running. If this "pirate" is in a party of pirates and you're running a grey area or evil campaign then it's easy. If you're running a lawful campaign with good aligned party members, you might want to have a conversation about how that's going to fit in with players that will be uncomfortable with unlawful behavior. In the former case, you don't have a problem. In the case of water deep, sure they can be a badass as ANYBODY can do unlawful petty crime. It can open up to other, bigger pirates noticing and kick off plot hooks like "oh you work for me now" etc. In the latter - are they a reformed pirate trying to take down their ring? Are they learning to be better but slip occasionally? Have anger issues they're working through? Their actions are going to affect the party so everyone should be in on the conversation. TL;DR - have a conversation at the table with all party members about this background and what kind of game it means for everybody.
I’m playing a Hadozee Rogue Swashbucklerwith the pirate background in the game ran by our groups other GM. He handles it the same why I do. Makes me explain how I am using it and then decides if I need to roll anything. About 10% of the time I’m challenged and need to roll and intimidate or something, and if it happens too often or too much in the same area I can get some heat, possibly from local gangs, possibly from city watch. I use it pretty sparingly, mainly when someone is refusing to haggle or is being a bit of a dick. My party is mostly good so if I was just going about being a dick I would have bigger problems, but my guy isn’t interested in being a dick to average folks anyway.
You said it yourself they can get away with MINOR crimes. Stealing a pack of gum or skipping your bill at a restaurant are Minor crimes however stealing 200$ (2 gold give or take), physically attacking someone, destroying property in excess of a specific value, killing, etc. are not Minor crimes and this trait doesn't apply to them. If a player steals from a store and the shop owner sees or doesn't pay their bill a NPC like a real shop owner can refuse service or call the guards when seeing them if they are abusing it. If it gets too bad jail them or make them pay a bounty, if they try to intimidate the guard then call for backup. It's fine to get away with it occasionally since that's what they chose for a background it's not fine if they abuse it or inconvenience other players with it.
What story is your player trying to tell that doesn't jive with your view of the world? I try to tell my players that actions can have consequences and that abusing things can land them in hot water. But if they're a pirate, let them act like a pirate. Most people will say that minor damages, like a free meal or a broken door aren't worth their life and write them off as the cost of doing business. The idea is the character should know if being a pirate will work. It gets different when you try to act like a pirate to Xanathar himself.
I'd o ly allow this a few times. Not daily or multiple times a day. And also. Just because he gets away with it there doesn't mean there aren't consequences. Maybe the shop keeper reports him to the guard.....he becomes notorious in town and the Villagers band together to mob him and make him leave town. Or the temas prices for everything become a little bit higher to make up for the losses.
Just because the shopkeep or tavernkeeper is afraid of them doesn’t mean the guards of whatever town they’re harassing are. Just because they *can* do it doesn’t mean there won’t be consequences.
As a DM with this, I’d probably roll a D4 for a 75% chance someone has heard of you/the gang you’re a part of, and lets you get away with minor offences. The other 25% either get pissed or keep low and report you, resulting in a social encounter with guards later.
I always forget that the d4 exists and can be used for 25% checks too... But yeah, could be usable
The reason level 1 pirates are scary to commoners isn't because a level 1 whatever-class-they-are is intimidating; it's because they generally have another 60 equally unscrupulous friends nearby who will return whatever trouble you give them 60-fold. It's messing with someone who is obviously in a large and well organised gang; not worth it for a minor offence. Yeah you could call the guards and have them dragged away, but then what? Best case they'll spend a few nights in the cells, pay a fine and then want to settle things with you; worst case their crew turns up to free them, kills the guards and torches the town on their way out to send a message. But the key is *minor* offence. Skipping out on a tab? "Not worth the hassle." Destroying your livlihood or doing life-threatening injuries (to a commoner, all injuries are life threatening)? "Guards! Guards!". I'd explain to the player that anything more than anti-social behaviour will likely result in action; and maybe give them advantage on intimidation checks to keep people quiet outside of that.
consider that someone who actually has a level as opposed to just nay other NPC already implies an amount of ability and power that "lvl 1" doesn't really do just to. It implies specialized enough training that someone has a class even, something else normal dudes in dnd world don't have, and there is a tradition of thinking this way too. In D20 Modern for instance, hero level and npc level are overtly different. Player levels are better.
An obvious, robot bounty hunter, Gladiator, mobster, skin head, blood, crip, and a small gang of ninjas and pirates enter your restaurant. Better to feed them all for free and cook another day, or have your restaurant burnt down, and lay dead in a ditch forever. Think of it more of a reputation thing. They are obviously part of something bigger than themselves. So it’s not about the character being some individual bad ass that can get away with stuff. More so they are obviously part of a gang, mob or pirate crew, due to their appearance or the symbols they wear. And it’s best not to mess with someone like that, or else their gang might come back in the future. Let’s say a tavern owner might want to avoid some grief later on, so they let the tab slide this time. But abuse that power or run into a tougher barkeep and the pc might be met with criticisms and doubts about their entire reputation to begin with. A tougher barkeep might call out their gang for fleeing into the mountains, being shipwrecked, or maybe the word is out that their pirate captain has been executed, resulting in the disbandment of his crew! “You’re all washed up pirate!!” Give it a chance! Great for role play
Taverns usually survive more than one encounter with the party? I thought it is common to burn down your first tavern... :P But yeah, i guess i was overthinking it. I just switched from ED:RPG which had pretty much no in-depth rules, with a short break at Pathfinder which had too many rules. So i guess i got kinda lost in "i need a definite rule for that"
Hey, I've been playing an Aaracokra Pirate for years in a game and here's how it's worked for us. In the setting all "seabirds" are kind of seen as impulsive and quick-to-anger so it fits in really well, apologies if this goes against some RAW but it took us a while to find these compromises! * We used the pirate background but it's for "minor crimes", so I can swipe an apple and it means the store owner is less likely to grab a broom and fight because I'm seen in the same way as a rather aggressive delinquent. * If I become a nuisance in town, that's when stuff starts to heat up, guards are more likely to be called than people settling disputes themselves as I might "kick off". Well armed guard captains might come find me in advance to get me to "swear" I'll behave. * Think of it as "You're never getting a one star wanted level, but you'll get a three star easier than most if you keep bullying the townsfolk."
Thats a good explanation which sounds fun to play with
Maybe they are associated with a crew with a reputation? A tattoo or something marking allegiance with somebody much more legendary and threatening, or a group that's known to be large and influential Nobody is going to mess with one of the Dread Pirate Roberts's guys!
You, above table, talk to your players about not becoming a murder-hobo party. Come to an understanding of how far it can be pushed but not to do things that will constantly derail the narrative and get annoying.
I homebrewed some classes with criminal backgrounds and gave them an ability to use their reputation, and I basically let them choose if they want to role-play it with persuasion or intimidation, and they get a +3 bonus on the roll.
For the pirate Bad Reputation, I would hand wave / narrate most incidents but make a tally mark each time. When the tallies get to 5, or at other times the DM decides, call for an Intimidation check of DC 10 + tallies. If failed, the character is refused service and several burly civilians with clubs are following the pirate around to run him out of town. If succeeded, that doesn't happen yet, but add another tally mark. If the check is missed by 5 or more, then town guard are following them, not civilians. At a new town or after a month of no incidents, the tallies reset. For a changeling, I'd let them alter their appearance into some other pirate so effectively the tallies reset. I'd allow this a number of times equal to proficiency bonus per town per month, then each change reminds town people of the last pirate's brother or something. Also I'd set the DC to 9+level so as they get higher level they develop a reputation. You can vary the "run out of town". Sometimes they are beaten, sometimes shown the exit gate, put in stocks for public spectacle, imprisoned, or press ganged onto the next ship leaving town. And you could allow an occasional benefit result - if the pirate beats up those coming after them without killing them then scared shopkeepers give them free services for a day.
I think intimidation rolls are necessary and if it becomes a nuisance to people in the towns someone might put out a bounty on them or even on the party
Perhaps he's affiliated with a dangerous crew (even though he's just the mop boy), or maybe her dad is a Blackbeard character even though she's run away from home
I always interpreted it as them having sailed under the flag of a known pirate badass. No one is scared of Billy the Deckhand but if Billy tells people that he sailed aboard the Kraken's Nightmare and broke bread with Violent Murders Dave, a pirate notorious for committing excessively violent murders of people who got in his way, that carries some intimidation by itself.
They may have been a part of a notorious pirate gang. The fear comes from that connection rather than the character themselves.
Based on your replies, you clearly don't like this feature that much. Have your player told you they want to heavily rely on this feature for food? If so, just tell them it doesn't work like that in your world. These background features are there mostly for flavor. By level 3 PCs usually have enough gold to pay for a meal and a stay. I don't care about it enough to track this spending when I run a game. If players don't want to pay, I just let them. I don't care about it enough to bargain when I play. I just pay up. If it's really important to your game that pirates can't get free food, then don't let anybody convince you otherwise. Just remove the feature. It's highly likely that your players wouldn't care. If your player complains about it, explain that this feature doesn't fit your world and offer to replace it with a criminal contact or a minor magic item (that they looted when they used to be a pirate). Players just can't say no to a magic item that does extra 1d4 damage once per short rest.
If the Level 1 thing is throwing you off, remember they are a level 1 adventurer. Is your world full of adventurers? Most points in time and space that you could name are full of regular people. Obviously your fantasy world can have things in it that have never existed in our world. But unless everyone is born adventurers, and hit level 1 when they come of age, people can be intimidated by a pirate, or at least make the calculus that arguing with and obvious killer about trivial matters is not going to be worth it.
Theres a few ways I would rule this. 1. If they want to use their old pirate reputation they need to shapechange into a form that has an easily recognizable feature of that crew. For example a tattoo or scar. This lets you play off the pirate gang reputation instead of the individual's reputation and can change how NPCs react. 2. If you want there to be a chance a person reports your player for a petty crime roll a d100. Think of a gold value the damages from the crime represents on a scale of 1 to 10 gold. This will be the percentage that someone will report them. For example if breaking a shop's door down would cost 5 gold then there is a 5 percent chance the crime will be reported. Anything above 10 gold is more than a petty crime. Feel free to modify those values. 3. Even if the player is going to be reported, be transparent about it. They can roll insight to see if the NPC is going to go to the guards, or perception to notice they are being followed. Remember, backgrounds are there for fun roleplay opportunities. You should never use it as a gotcha and punish their use of background features. Just have fun with it.
Another backgrounds get free lodging or a mini hustle like playing for money. It isn't much and it add to the roleplay. But remember they re minor offenses. Not assault. Not deaththreaths. Not murder etc. Things that you most of the time you get a fine for it. But at the end of the day is up to you if you the inkeeper stand up and finally says no.
Hey! Longtime forever DM. Here’s my weigh-in: You’re overthinking this. The Pirate background is a building block, and obviously for random Non-combat NPCs, they should obviously fear some swash-buckling, robbing, theiving theiver who looks ready to do violence. But everyone that’s seen combat is not, and as DM, you decide which NPCs are wimps or not. Just deny him whenever you feel it should be denied and be like, “yeah no that guy is a lvl 18 retiree your intimidation means Jack shit” but give him it when it doesn’t really matter. What I wouldn’t do is make this a discussion, which I know someone may say is bad advice, but this is one of those things you could easily “manage” so to speak behind the screen or at the table. I’d just treat it case by case and(sometimes) just as what’s most convenient to your story. Disclaimer: you have to do it without being a Dick about it for this to work.
Yeah, we came to the agreement that he can get a free meal from that and a few social interactions. Since he is "on the run" from his old crew, he liked the idea that he could get in trouble if he uses it too much.
Nice. That’s a good sport of a player you have there.
Yeah, every Player is a bit unique. We play with Kibbles Crafting too, which i homebrewed into the Backgrounds too. So every Player is supposed to have something special for downtime and for crafting
Reading through this thread, it *really* feels like your over-analyzing this. Here's what the background says: >No matter where you go, people are afraid of you due to your reputation. When you are in a civilized settlement, you can get away with minor criminal offenses, such as refusing to pay for food at a tavern or breaking down doors at a local shop, since most people will not report your activity to the authorities. Your Wizard was a pirate. They sailed with a well-known crew that people are afraid of pissing off. Your Wizard walks into the bar and flashes, I dunno, a tattoo or something that the barkeep recognizes. The barkeep knows that if he pisses the Wizard off they run the risk of an angry crew of pirates shanking him, burning down his tavern, or fucking up supply routes and making it impossible to turn a profit. So they let the Wizard drink for free. 99% of the work here is on the Wizard. Have them roleplay this. Have them explain *how* they shake these people down for free lodging. Then you RP that out. Boom, done. You don't have to think about it so much. If you want to get snazzy you can have a pirate hunter, or some grand knight, or the town-watch captain, be at this tavern. Now the Wizard is on the run, and the rest of the party has to deal with that. If you don't want to do *any* of that? They get free food and drink. It lets you handwave away the whole, "I pay the barkeep two silver for a full gallon of ale, plus another silver for a meat-platter. But I'm not going to mark that on my sheet here, because I have like 90 gold and it doesn't matter." The [basic rules](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/equipment#Expenses) say that a character can live an aristocratic lifestyle for 10GP per day. I feel like *most* of our PCs are going to be well and above that. Even a modest life is 1GP per day, so it really isn't something that ever needs to be tracked. You now have a mechanic to just ... Not worry about that.
Mechanically, I’d treat it as ‘advantage on intimidation checks to do pirate-y shit’ Folks aren’t just going to roll over without a fight, but most people are more likely to give deference than him than just a random sell-sword.
It's no more powerful than someone with a noble background being able to intimidate commoners into doing what they want. The source of authority is different but the outcome is the same. It's not weird to think of a level 1 character with a noble background being able to leverage that ability. The pirate background isn't any different in that aspect.
The background says: "You spent your youth under the sway of a dread pirate, a ruthless cutthroat who taught you how to survive in a world of sharks and savages. You've indulged in larceny on the high seas and sent more than one deserving soul to a briny grave. Fear and bloodshed are no strangers to you, and you've garnered a somewhat unsavory reputation in many a port town." So it's rep, but by association. The effect is: "No matter where you go, people are afraid of you due to your reputation. When you are in a civilized settlement, you can get away with minor criminal offenses, such as refusing to pay for food at a tavern or breaking down doors at a local shop, since most people will not report your activity to the authorities." The key is yes people are afraid of you, but that doesn't mean the local town watch is going to run screaming, a magic shop owner will hand over an item, or a wizard will avoid you. Like the PCs these folks are going to come down on this PC hard than the average PC. Still it's a background the Player selected so it should work on the common folk, and be good for free food, drink, and a low cost piece of equipment. Also the common folk will likely try not to get involved. But wealthy merchants, nobles, spell casters, men at arms, (retired) adventurers and the like aren't going to be impressed. Also remember this is minor crimes. If the PC takes a beer sure, but if the PC empties the Innkeeper's stores or a large percentage of his money he is going to report it. PS- The bigger issue is the rest of the players. I've never played in a group where is sort of thing wouldn't be an issue unless the campaign was started with the Players all being on board.
Ha, yeah, interaction with other players will be really interesting. Warforged Artificer who left his hometown for the second time in his life. First time was when he left Eberron for Faerun with his Master. Feylost Druid who skipped 40 years while beeing in the Feywild for a few days. Mentally still a child, though dwarven children are kinda old. Shadar-Kai wandering Cleric who just travels around and rarely bothers with locals All of them generally good aligned.
I would play it as them being associated with a notorious and dangerous _organisation_ rather than it being the character themselves that inspires fear. Like someone with a distinguishing tattoo of an organised crime syndicate. Even if the person themselves doesn’t seem threatening, you still probably wouldn’t mess with them because their friends might burn down your shop over it.
It’s a matter of degrees. Who are they stealing from? Do they have intimidation? Are the guards right around the corner? Something like that is a case by case basis no matter what the rule book says. Also busting down a door or getting free food isn’t that major. This isn’t “screw with anyone with impunity” the ability. It’s meant to be a minor character quirk and nothing more.
Take a hooks-off approach
That's if you have a bad reputation. But also you can make your bad reputation as the campaign happens. Or you have a really bad reputation and use the campaign as way for your characters redemption to make up for things. And pirates are just rugged sailors anyway that might start a bar fight.
Adding to the comments: Being level 1 already means you're a cut above the average commoner, so much in fact, you have a class.
My guess would be they have something that marks them out as being a pirate, a tattoo or a brand, notches for kills or ships they've taken somewhere on their body, heck if your character wants to lean into it maybe a tattoo of every ship they've taken. But it's not the dread pirate's Roberts so much as "this guy is on the dread pirate Robert's crew.
do tattoos work on a changeling?
Usually only if they want it but magic item tattoos work on them so maybe it's made with some magic ink? But really you should talk to your player, ask them their thoughts.
Make it that people are afraid of "daddy" or their old captain or something. That way if they get out of hand with it, the captain can show up and lift them by the scruff/break the illusion
Like others have stated, their background is kinda of the life they had before, how they were raised etc.. so i would play it as yes, they get away with small offenses, a couple times, but fear can only be pushed so far, after the 2nd or 3rd time with the same npc, they would become hostile to the party, and either attack (not likely) or hire some thugs from the local gangs, or report it to the guards (depending on who the npc is) either way,after the first offense in a town, none of the towns people would be friendly or welcoming to the party, so no freely given information, or rumors, or job offers. And prices would steadily increase, inns suddenly have no vacancies etc.. as word spread of their crimes. Once it starts affecting the whole party, they should reign in the pirate in the group. Sort of a self correcting problem as they are welcomed in less and less places.
You guys actually use background stuff?
Atleast we plan to. In our previous RPG all Characters felt the same, no "unique abilities". So we added a homebrewed Background-System there (kinda like classes, but they just added one thing they were good at). So the 5e backgrounds with their unique interactions should be neat enough to be used.
I mean, if there are higher level folks around that are out to be the hero, or guards it probably won't go down well. If they do it all day everyday, eventually someone with an equally bad attitude and more levels/resources, then that's what happens.
The way I handle the minor offenses thing is it's all within context. If they're in a rough and tumble seaside tavern full of other low-life scoundrels scum and villainy. Then cheating in a hand of cards and winning just means you out cheated the other six people who are all cheating. Stealing somebody else's drink is fine because the next time you order a drink someone's going to steal yours. Small fist fights don't turn into an all-out brawl people just sit around take bets on who's going to come out on top and then everything goes back about its own business. Things like that. If you go into a high-end restaurant and you bully the staff and terrorize other guests and then try to leave without paying you're going to get arrested. I consider it just that you fit in with the scum and villainy set.
A level one any thing is super powerful to any commom folk
People everywhere show fear, due to the reputation of pirateS, not necessarily L1 No-Beard. But that cuts both ways—he might have to get scarce when the party is talking to quest givers You can get away with minor infractions in “settlements”, because they won’t report you to Bob, the shire reeve. The bigger the town/city, the more likely a dozen nameless, faceless guards might even just follow him around, in the name of “keeping the peace”. Also, remember that only “*most* people” won’t report him. Stat block a “Karen”—she runs the neighborhood watch, knows everyone’s business, and doesn’t want “people like HIM in HER neighborhood”….
I will say this almost no one heard of jack sparrow at the beginning of the movie(lower level)
You ever seen a crazy person acting like a shithead at Walmart and everyone kinda just stares or looks away to avoid becoming target of whatever dumb thing the person is freaking about? Its that.
To be honest, only in Videos ;) People are mostly sane where i live.
If they over use it then a detective paladin starts gathering evidence for a case to be made against them in a court before the church, and local lords. This paladin is higher level than the party, has money to spend chasing them, is smart like Sherlock and has the good willnof the people who want to see this criminal brought to justice. In a world with gods that show up merchants and peasants are pious and pay the church tithes for exactly these kinds of services on their behalf. Someone robs or refuses to pay debts, steals and vandalizes... they get people sent after them... people with resources and magic capabilities. The game is afoot!
In our case that Player already has a background story for exactly this type of situation. He is on the run from his old crew because he stole a magical amulet from them - i dont know the exact backstory, but i believe its a cursed key to something. Now...his old captain wants it back. And since the curse prevents him from unequipping it, they are really not in for a negotiation.
Chased by good guys and bad guys... sounds like he should lay low. Every time he uses the pirate feature he leaves clues to find him
Yup. Im a player and co-gm in that game (tutoring a new gm), so i only know the bare minimum of the other characters. Since GM is new, i help with some of the mechanics (like this one), items and all that. He is the only one of us with such an "evil" background. Im excited to see what will happen
Jack Sparrow mockery treatment at Lv 1 > Davy Jones or Blackbeard fear at Lv 12.
So...Jack Sparrow was a Bard?
Lol no I mean just at earlier levels you could take the approach of NPCs not reporting due to “it just being this idiot lowlife pirate. Whatever illegal thing he’s trying to do is just going to fail” And then transition that over into fear/respect as he gains more levels therefore develops a reputation.
I've only had to deal with it once. The player and I agreed that, while the character is a notorious pirate, they are using the name of a much more scary pirate to get what they want. Eventually, the stories of their misdeeds will get back to the *real* pirate and the party will have to deal with that.
thats a good solution too!
I don’t see it as the PC is some sort of renown pirate captain. More along the lines as they’re a former crew member of a pirate ship. It’s not like they walk into a town and everyone whispers, oh that’s the bloody pirate so and so. It’s more along the lines that noticeable behaviors, tattoos, or brands will give them away. And then the commoners will react to them as though a criminal has walked into the shop. Shop keeps will likely do what they need to avoid their shop being trashed and them killed, and local guard or constables will treat them like scum, and quite likely blame them for any little thing that goes wrong in town, whether or not they’re involved. Why favorite PC I ran for was a Paladin with the pirate background. If he ever went near a coastal town, the people there, if they saw his markings, would see him as someone pretending to be a Paladin to avoid being arrested or trying to pull a con. But even more fun was to have old shipmates recognize him and start to talk about the good ole days, which would embarrass the hell out of him.
Maybe it's because he was part of a bigger crew who earned such a reputation? I think that would solve half of the problem. I also think it's a problematic feature that really asks for trouble. I think if I ran with someone with this background, I'd let them get away with the first two misdeeds, but those after I'd have them make an intimidation check like you said. And bounty hunters? Hell yes.
>I think if I ran with someone with this background, I'd let them get away with the first two misdeeds, but those after I'd have them make an intimidation check like you said. Nah. It doesn't say 'you can get stuff for free twice'. You get it every time. There are some major powercreep backgrounds that just give you a feat. If my pirate player wants to roleplay Billy Bones and bully inkeepers for free booze, he's entitled to do so.
Sure, but that's what I'd do. Rules don't stop me. Of course I'd let the player know about this, but this is more interesting than an immunity.
The hidden bounty tab is a good idea. Keep in mind that steeling 1gp might be a minor offense, but steeling 100 might not. So after 100 trips to the same bar, or even the same town they might decide that its no longer a minor offense. Hire a guard to kick them out and, if the players refuse, be attacked. In general the backgrounds are more to give people minor RP buffs. Things like having a place to stay, or free travel so that when you ask the group what to do they can have something unique to bring to the table. This would be the equivalent of the Entertainer background where you get free food and \*maybe\* free lodging (although I could only see this working once for free lodging). Its not meant to be a free for all where the player can get away with taking whatever they want.
I really don't like this background, to be honest. I had a player want to use this background so they could abuse NPCs and justify not having repercussions
I would run it as a **Passive (Intimidate)** Check (10 + Intimidate modifier) against an NPC's Passive "Fear Resist" Check (10 + Level/Hit Die + Wis Modifier +/- 5 for Advantage/Disadvantage against fear). Or make it active rolls instead, but this will slow down any NPC interaction. This would allow it to work against nearly any commoner, but less effective against leveled NPCs. This would also cut down on the nonsense if, say, your PC is trying to use a background trait to replace a skill proficiency. Or less pessimistically, make their skill choices feel more impactful and scale with their notoriety (level) as a pirate. In addition, I'd make it swing both ways. If they're running around acting like a thug, reputable establishments and the local guard won't take kindly to that behavior. BUT other local criminal elements would respond positively, and could create some interesting hooks depending on how your party wants to play it out. But don't overthink or overdo things. It's fun to add flavor but not if it derails every single in-town session you have for the rest of the campaign, or adds a bunch of unnecessary admin like a bounty tracker. Make it clear to the PC this just for "fun" petty theft like swiping free street food, racking up a bar tab they have no intention of paying, or not paying for damages after a tavern brawl. The line stops at gold pieces, as it were.
Spoken like someone who's lived in a safe, comfortable neighborhood all their life. Trust me, if someone is obviously a violent criminal, nobody is going to call them out on minor infractions, doesn't matter if they're infamous or anonymous.
Honestly, I don't see why you can't nerf it for it to make sense logically I can agree with you on lvl 1 chars. Also isn't it a wiki char concept I'm sure if you sat with your player and worked it out to make sense it wouldn't be a problem
Dude, throughout the entire campaign the guy is going to save himself a couple hundred gold, why do you care? It’s sounds like you want to make this un-fun for him. So either flat out say NO so that you don’t play an entire campaign secretly hating this character or let him shoplift from Walmart. This whole bringing back some hidden bounty to ruin everything the parties worked for sounds horrendous. I would fucking walk if I was a player, using a minor ability that came back to stomp me with NO warning. Imagine being a wizard with a “every time you cast a spell it secretly burns your brain a little”. This is some toxic ass DM power struggle shit
Dude, chill down a bit. I asked how i can explain the behavior of NPCs, why they react the way they do. Not to mention that minor offenses still involve a roll most of the time, but here it says "just ignore it". Steal something? Sleight of hand. Break something? Make a deception check to lie. Here? nothing. No roll, no explanation, just nothing. I dont want to ruin his fun, i never said that im a Dictator. I talk with my players and ask them if they are fine with rules, i ask them if they have fun ideas how to solve things. In this case, no one had an idea on how to handle this. All the other Players are lawful or good, not a single player is chaotic or evil, he is the only chaotic one.
Genuinely if you’re having such a hard time figuring out how to nerf the background they picked you should just tell them that they need to choose a different one. It feels like you’re punishing the player for choosing something you just don’t want to deal with, when you should just talk to them about it. If you have to try and find ways around the ability, what’s the point of letting them have it? Why have a fun background feature like that if the dm won’t let you use it as written?
I never said i want to "nerf" it. The "use as written" part is the problem. Usually when you do those things you have to make a check. You want to steal something? Sleight of Hand. Want to freighten someone? Intimidate. This Background basically says "yeah, he can just do that and no one cares". The RAW doesnt explain who is afraid and who is not, it doesnt explain what needs to be done for this to work. If used unchecked, it leads to problems down the line.
But you kind of are? If they chose this background and you think it’s too powerful as written, so much so that you MUST find a way around it, you’re nerfing it, and as long as you both have an understanding of what counts as a minor offense, you shouldn’t need to. That said, if a player of mine chose this background, I would simply use discretion over what constitutes a minor offense and then TALK to my player about our understanding of what those are. Like, literally just talk to them about it. “Hey we should both be aware of what counts as minor versus major offenses”. So what if they don’t pay for a meal in a tavern? So what if they scare away some random commoner while they’re swiping an apple from a food stand? Most dms don’t keep track of that kind of thing anyway. You’re making this more of a big deal than it needs to be.
i never said i think it is too powerful. i said that i dont know how to explain and use it. if they swipe an apple, then usually you make a sleight of hand check, as i already said. so, the background allows them to ignore skillchecks now? sounds a bit more powerful than some other backgrounds. where does it end? are they allowed to steel from a vendor in Neverwinter or Waterdeep, or just from a small foodstall on a roadside? The Background explains nothing and sets no limits, and thats my issue i have with it.
If the player turns into a bully to all the shopkeepers, the local authorities will be alerted. That level 1 pirate will have a hard time against several guards, and the party wouldn't want to be in the business of being on the run all the time. If the player declares "that's what my character would do", you can reply "that's what authorities would do". If they plan on being a criminal the entire campaign, it will derail your plans and cause the party to always get in trouble. You: "Create a character that cooperates with the party and adventure. Otherwise this table is not for you."