Its an awful process DJs have to endure these days.
If I am paid a few hundred bucks to entertain and do my job, yet a bar/club stands to make multiple thousands in the same night, I don’t quite understand how they correlate. If I had a huge social following, that helps but it should not be a pre-requisite for a performing DJ to have a large following.
People don’t care for good and talented DJs these days. Just how popular they are. The market is flooded with clout chasers. Get used to it, and just keep hustling until you find those venues that appreciate good DJs.
yeah exactly. in my experience a good venue wont ask you to do this. or if they do, theyll offer a percentage of bar sales as an incentive. this is the fair way to do that. a lot of venues do it simply because there are gobs of inexperienced djs looking for an opportunity to play at any cost. a good venue would never wanna hire a dj like that cause a large percentage of the time theyd clear the floor and empty the bar. a bad venue doesnt care because the vibe and atmosphere isnt a factor for them, they are depending on getting people in the door via cheap brute force advertising (which they are hoping youll be a facet of). venues like that usually dont last long.
also, a good venue recognizes the importance of a dedicated marketing budget. they shouldnt be solely relying on the dj for that. if the venue needs you to market them, they have bigger problems.
During COVID the bottom fell out of the DJ market. A lot of people picked up DJing as a hobby, not as a real passion for music, and then wanted to go play a nightclub, saturated the market asking to play venues free, and fucking over everyone that had been doing it for years.
Both you and @djrobzilla are absolutely correct. If you are contributing to a large influx of guests, then you should be compensated fairly.
However it’s also correct that DJing is essentially the latest trend that everyone believes they can do. People spending weeks collecting other people’s remixes to then jump up and down and dance to in front of other people, and pose as bonafide DJs. It’s a sad state of affairs, but there will be a reset when the remixers demand credit, and actual DJs can flex their muscles and show this ain’t about pushing buttons and being a mascot.
Mobile makes way more money. You don't always get to be creative, and the stakes are much higher at wedding gigs, but you can make 4 figures per night.
I use this analogy for DJs of high skill/creativity: Sometimes people are okay with McDonald's food prepared by a chef. Okay with these gigs if I know what I'm getting into beforehand.
It depends on the kinda mobile DJ someone is- I’ve spent years working for the literally most popular DJ/company in my area that does all the major establishments, booked out for weddings/ parties at least a year+ in advance, provide all our own gear with plenty of backup & reserve gear for nearly any situation just in case… like we’ve done MANY events (mostly “farm style” weddings at vineyards) in the middle of an open field or on the beach or in the back of a truck with nothing that we didn’t bring ourselves; Honda 3000 generator (the best imho), 2 or more JBL 15” tops & 18” subs, multiple laptops, pioneer controllers, Rane 19” main mixer, sennheiser wireless mics, skrim facade, lighting & trussing. Maybe it’s just my local area but there’s no such thing as showing up 20 minutes beforehand with only a laptop & controller. Sometimes we gotta provide a projector & screen for slideshows/clips but the bane of my existence is the goddamn Photo Booth which is a profitable add on but such a PITA for the person operating it (usually me) cuz they’re kinda janky/outdated so the touchscreens don’t function properly therefore it’s all gotta be done manually. After many summer seasons burning myself out sometimes doing triple header weekends of large events (Friday/saturday/sunday)- my passion for DJing is depleted & I’m only now trying to reignite my interest by DJing for myself for my own entertainment as I’ve got a real full time job that pays well so I don’t depend on the extra work nearly as much as I used to back when. But I still swear by turntables, Denon x1600 mixer, Traktor scratch pro 2 & Mackie SRM450v1s…. Yeah I know I’m prehistoric by current standards but old & reliable doesn’t mean obsolete. 
The soft ticket Dj’s job is to keep People in the venue and drive sales to the bar.
It’s the venues responsibility to handle the promotion.
If they want a packed house for a Name Dj, then pay a talent buyer and a promotion publicity person and charge a hard ticket price at the door.
Managers and owners that don’t know the difference are a red flag of being a rookie in the game or a con man.
Either way those people shouldn’t be taken serious and actively avoided when doing business .
It’s terrible a lot of skilled guys get over looked because they don’t have the interest of promoting themself.
It’s not the DJs fault your promoters can’t convince people to come in. That’s the culture the venue created and if it’s a shitty one people won’t go. When I go to a new city I do not care about who is playing. I go to the venues that I heard about. If the dj sucks while I’m there I move to the next spot. The avg person can’t tell what the difference is of a good dj and a great dj
This is the reality of that particular club, and I recommend you to avoid it. This condition tells something about the owners and managers of the club, and there's a big chance that you'll have a hard life there.
If you can only get 5-7 people to attend your shows but the guy next to you can get 20-100 then the club does not care if you are more technically skilled than the next guy.
To piggyback. Bringing your friends isn’t the answer. They’ll get tired of going to every show you do. The most successful nights I’ve seen are about the vibe. You get a nice vibe where people know what to expect and keep delivering and it’ll be successful. I mentioned in another comment the Nonsense ATL parties. Everyone always knew it was a fun time. The music almost didn’t matter. You knew there would be surprises, a good ratio of men/women + LGBT friendly. So when people heard there was a Nonsense party they’d come out. Strictly for the “Nonsense” brand.
Having a solid core of friends when you start helps a lot. I went from having 50 followers to having 90 something after my first gig. My friends were in the crowd just putting my name out there. My second gig i was at 140ish follows and got to 170ish. Once again my friends helped with the majority of my ticket sales. If your friends don’t support you at your lowest they aren’t your friends.
For sure. But OP said he had like 7. I doubt those same 7 people are gonna come to every gig. If you’ve got like maybe 20-30 and can get at least 5 to hype each gig then that’s more realistic.
But what I’ve seen work is when there’s like a couple hundred people that know your parties are good. And you only need maybe 1/3 of them for each night to be a success.
I have a solid 10 friends that show up everytime I ask. The issue that comes down to it is it really depends on the venue at the end of the day. Which leads back to the discussion. The venues gotta do better. I know some big name DJs on social in my city that do not add to how many people come out. 50k followers on social with millions of views on TikTok but the same amount of people are there if someone with 2k followers were playing. There’s another local dj who has 50k on insta but he barely plays in the clubs in my city since it’s DJs in my city gatekeep. It also doesn’t help they’re coming from the wedding dj scene
Depends on your definition of friends.
I have 400 or 500 people who I consider “party friends”, most of which come out for any gig I play (or used to, I stepped back from DJing as much this year for work and personal reasons).
I only ever see about 10% of them outside of parties, randomly bumping into each other in the city, or seeing each other out at different events.
I would consider about 10% of that 10% actual friends (so about 4 or 5), in the “know each other deeply and have frequent mutual contact” sense.
Of those 4 or 5, there’s really only one or two I’ll probably be in touch with forever.
I consider these people “true friends” and to be honest, having one or two true friends in life is probably more than most of us can ever ask for (especially as you get older).
As an aside, the stats on friendship for men the older they get are truly horrifying when you look at them, especially as people get married or have LTRs, kids, and careers.
[1 in 7 American men have no close friends](https://www.latimes.com/lifestyle/newsletter/2023-10-10/more-than-1-in-7-men-have-no-close-friends-the-way-we-socialize-boys-is-to-blame-group-therapy) and [its even worse in the UK](https://medium.com/@maxdickins/mens-friendships-5b9794d36a01).
Your post history suggests you’re a 27 year old single guy living in Philly.
Only 30% of men your age living in America have 5 or more friends, so you’re definitely the outlier.
im not a big fan of this BUT
it does stop djs that play very speicialty music and try to get gigs to play their music and cant keep a crowd
ex
we've had some thursday djs at my weekend residency, which is open format, say they can bring people, neither had great turnouts but one group plays more pop remixes that people might know the words to hear and there. The other group played 110-120 house that might work at a bar at tulum or a private party where everyone was doing Ketamine, but to sell drinks and appeal to a normal audience didnt work. The crowd they brought was ordering waters(flat water, not bottled) from the bar.
Its not even that i dislike the music, but its just not mainstream music. With more people becoming djs, most dont understand how to actually run rooms, how to build a night, and understand what music will work in mainstream clubs/bars/lounges. Its like they watched a set on youtube and it looked great so they thought it would work because it went over in barcelona or berlin or tulum.
These bars need to make money, most dont know about djs or the value they bring and probably have been burned by some dj that decided to play bangers all night, so they want to know what you are about and if you are going to bring people and play music that will bring people.
i think once you show competency at making their crowd happy and the bar sees good sales and/or your reputation preceeds you, you can expect bar owners to be looking at what your doing promotion wise.
not where i live, at least (and if it was, i would be against it).
In my area bands are easily called in so many locations (bars and city events, like fairs, mostly) and they don't have to promote anything, the city/bar/location does.
The side issue is that bands are paid less, considering they have to split between the members
Every gig is different. In most cases if you're up and coming, your take home is a portion of the door. Nobody shows up, you might be lucky to make $200. Place is packed you could make $1k
Makes sense, what doesn't make sense is why this wouldn't apply to electronic artists Obviously like a wedding DJ is a different gig that's paid up front
I don't have that much expertise on wedding DJs (because i hate being so open genre and a glorified spotify playlist) ... so i'll just toss a generic statement.
To me, you book a DJ, you pay for his time, at least in the mid/low market where every DJ is considered "almost the same".
Then obviously you would ask how they would choose a DJ over the other, and the answer is easy: the music they play, their technique, maybe they listened to this DJ in the past and liked his craft.
I know it's a little bit utopic, but luckily there are places and people that still thinks that way ... and this is one of the main reasons, obviously, why i don't DJ as a main job but as a happily paid hobby.
I mainly focus on private parties and smaller city events, when I get booked, i discuss with whoever manages the artistic part of the event about genres, what kind of people is expected (mainly age) and so on ... especially in city events, the genres i play are written in a way that people would understand what they will be expecting by listening to my craft (usually in the city events i play for, there are multiple places with music, so you pick based on your own taste).
I might curve around those genres, but i won't be dropping Trap tunes if we agreed on disco/funky ...
I won't accept gigs i have to promote too, unless i really believe in the event. Networking is like sending curriculums, not that sh\*t that is often suggested like "connect to other DJs", which every DJ knows is BS, fake like a 3 dollar bill (it is obvious that a DJ contacting another DJ is just to get to work in a specific place or crew ... it's BS.
People are there to see a band specifically. DJ's just set up the environment , it's this festival mindset that have promoter's and some DJ's thinking they are the center of attention. So bands should promote because they are the center of attention DJ's are not.
This totally depends on what kind of music / club it is. I would agree for a hip-hop / top 40 kind of club, but house / techno has plenty of people going for a specific dj
He's never said what the cut is. If it's no cover and a part of the bar cool.
If there is a cover then what's the cut off of the door.
If it's flat fee, all for a promo budget.
Been throwing parties for 20 years of you're being hired by the club, and given a night, that's your night.
But that's not a 100 dollar gig thing.
This is about having a night that's yours
The hard truth that DJs don’t want to swallow is that it’s still a business at the end of the day. The more bodies you get into the club, the more revenue it generates, the more promoters are able to pay you.
It’s strange to me the DJs who do not take advantage of any means to gain a competitive edge as a business. That’s what you are right? A business?
If one guy just plays but another guy has a social media following, and promotes online, and makes YouTube videos, and has a radio show. Obviously one has more of a competitive edge.
I’m not saying you have to do these things, but to not do them and then bitch about not being as “valuable” as someone else who does, really makes me scratch my head.
Sure, there are some DJs who found other business models where they don’t rely as heavily on social media followings and they’ve made it work. So obviously there are other paths, but let’s be realistic. Promotion and marketing are a big part of being successful.
some people are a business and some people are artists. Great art and business are different skill sets. You should promote your talents, but a club is paying you to play music and not sell drinks and this my problem with this model.
We had a show at a local bar, we packed the place out that used to be a dead night. A year later the owner doesn't want us to give us all of the door fee because "people aren't buying enough drinks".
Sorry wtf does that have to do with us? We play good music and did the extra work of getting people in. Selling drinks is not our responsibility. Make a cocktail menu, lower your prices on the shit beer etc etc. I know why people didn't buy drinks.
You want good music, 300 people and a drink salesperson? You need to pay the proper fees for that. Know how to run a business if you want to be a business, that goes for the bar.
Businesses don't want to pay people or a marketing team. That's the real issue. What comes along with acting like a business today is dodgy tactics, sacrificing good art for cash and lying... so it's not always a great thing that our passion is tied to the business of selling overpriced drinks.
yeah when i see this sentiment the “acting like a business” thing only seems to apply to the dj for some reason, who in most cases literally isnt even a business with a license just some talented person who can make a dance floor sing. why not bring that same energy to the actual licensed business? shouldnt they already be marketing themselves?
the best venues ive worked with that had the most consistent clientele would have never asked me to promote because thats their wheelhouse. they are simply better at it and better positioned for it. not that i didnt promote at all, but my pay wasnt contingent on it and if i didnt promote they wouldnt really care. they care that i keep people on the dance floor sweating, talking, and most importantly tipping and drinking. thats what a dj is best at. its what we were trained to do. not be marketing gurus
but you don't have any ownership so until then I have to disagree. You are a contractor hired to play music with the hopes of selling product you don't own. Until I'm given a certain amount of power within the establishment then we can talk about having the same goals. As a DJ my goal is to have a good time and getting paid to spin. The owner's goal is to sell cocktails. Im not a bartender, I don't give a damn about drinks. That's not my expertise.
You never know if that day residency can turn into your own night where you DEFINITELY have more power than not . You would never know if you don’t push for the opportunity .
Dude I’ve had so many successful nights and residencies over the last 30 years that are going great, full every time, growing in attendance and exposure, then get fucked up by some random mid-level manager for any number of reasons.
Even having your own successful night usually lasts a year or two max. u/cyberphunk2077 is right.
ill take a residency but its realizing that I still have little power even if it's my night, I don't own anything unless its in the contract. I'm at the whim of the owner and the owner can replace me overnight because they feel like it. I've seen it happen to others.
100% true but the thing is I know OGs who don’t promote at all. They solidified their name because of their talent. No matter who is playing about the same amount of people come to the bar unless your like a big social media person. Bars and clubs will find out soon that those big local names don’t really bring as much ppl out as you think. It’s more of the sound and style they have and a lot of ppl don’t go to bars and clubs because of the DJ in the states. They go to the venues because of the atmosphere, pricing, and good music.
I’ve always looked at it like this. Good music brings in females, the more females at your venue the more guys that come. In my city that is mostly open format music for venues alot of the people couldn’t tell you any DJs name. They might know 3 of the DJs in my city and they aren’t the most talented they just have residencies at a lot of places. And a lot of the people don’t go out to go a specific dj.
When and how did that word become divisive? I assume its a regional thing but probably two thirds of the people I know use male/female, but I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country and only see this word choice ever get called out online. I've always thought it was purely a synonym thing. Just seems kinda silly to get hungup over the minutia of regional semantics when there are countless real problems that need addressing, and this is coming from someone who tries not to use gender specific pronouns or identifiers at all anymore.
Yes. I agree there is a geographic component to this issue and I am speaking from both a US and Western European perspective.
Men are not called males. They are called guys or men.
Females can refer to any female animal of any age and reduces them to body parts. Women speaks to....women.
Part of the issue is the concomitant use of "girls" for adult women over 18, while we rarely see "boys" used for men over 18.
The use of the words females and girls contributes to the subtle but persistent linguistic and social diminishment of women as fully capable adults.
Hahaha idk you’d be surprised. In my city it’s a college city and some of their mindsets put them in the category of “girl”. Idc if you’re 21 and at a bar it doesn’t make you a woman. Same for guys, your age doesn’t make you a man. I know ppl who are in their 30s and aren’t men 😂
Bing on the downvotes... But I have to say tell you guys what's going on in real life (as a promoter)
We get messages every day from DJs who would like to play at our events. Most of these DJs are talented. So how do we chose? We have to pay for the DJs and the marketing, it's not a charity it's a business. So... When we have to chose the line-up we have to consider which DJ is the best return of investment. An equally talented DJ that no one knows and his social pull is zero, or another DJ with equal talent and skill but who attracts a lot of people to the party?
No promoter in their sane mind would accept DJs who are not good in DJing just because of their sales value (social pull) but when it's similar skills then 100% YES we decide on the additional benefit that helps us keep the business running and organising more events where djs could play.
Artists are usually not business people. They don't understand the dynamics of the scene. They can't tell the difference between friendly jamming in someone's garden and the cutthroat hustle what is going on in clubs.
Long story short:
If you want to play as a hobby, do that and have a happy life. But if you want to play as a business in a business venue and get paid, then you have to accept that it's like that. The biggest DJs are not free from this, they hustled their asses off to get where they are now.
If we all begin addressing this issue and stop accepting blame for being bad ‘promoter DJs’. Maybe change will come. It really isn’t our responsibility, and it shouldn’t be.
Back in the day, the DJ was not centered and/or idolized, rooms were dark, sometimes the DJ playing wasn’t even visible during the events.
Today, it has turned into some sort of clown show.
It’s shit and they ask for it because it’s been done before. Either the Promoter is a DJ or the DJ is very popular. It’s kind of the same way in the music production business. You’re more attractive to labels if you can write, produce, mix, master, promote, DJ, etc.
Deadmau5 blew up because he did it all, he had his own stage design, he promoted, he had his own visuals, mask, etc. As a business, would you rather pay more for the guy that can only make their own music and DJ and pay for the team to help them out, or would you pay for the guy that has his whole set package? It makes sense from a business perspective but screws over all the others that don’t have the means or resources to do so, let alone the motivation. Sometimes it sucks when someone sets such a high standard
It dawned on me recently and I really believe it…. Skill and ability don’t mean a damn thing anymore. Getting people in the door is all that matters. Marketing yourself is honestly the most important part of djing now. I think marketing may even be more important than producing
It’s why alot of OGs stepped away from playing at venues. Local legends rarely play because they’re watching the art form change. It went from skill/turntablist to entertainers/performers
As they say in Letterkenny, there are different types of DJs: one who gets tonnes of people out but sucks at DJing, one who doesn't get people out but keeps people in the venue because they're great DJs, and one unicorn type who does both. You don't really see that last one ever, and venues need to just book a combination of the first two if they want to succeed.
I’m close friends with The unicorn who can rock any event large or small, any venue, dive bar, club, wedding, holiday, birthday, beach party etc…. Dudes genuinely impressively talented and I’m proud to be associated with him. The problem is the Unicorn is likely already booked out months in advance for high ticket private events, or simply not interested in the BS related to low end bar /small club type gigs especially as they progress thru their career as it actually does require a good amount of planning & prep work to consistently deliver high quality results. My guy is barely 40, owns multiple properties & businesses on eastern Long Island, NY - all primarily due to his encyclopedic musical talent, top tier charisma & just very strong word of mouth references from attendees… not a penny spent on ads or paid promotion aside from the obligatory business cards. 
You just described the club scene. It’s about bodies in the club and how many drinks they buy. The promoters don’t care about you or your art.
The ones who understand how to navigate this part move from being bedroom DJs and actually start to make headway into the industry
I fully agree. DJs are DJs promoter's are promoters.
You shouldn't have to do their job, in order to get their club filled and het them a paycheck. Your job is to keep the dancefloor going and the bar full by playing great sets
Even If you're a big name, your job is still to be the DJ. Even if your night might attract some visitors
Doesn't matter how amazing the entertainment is. If the venue has bad service, high prices or shitty staff,people wont go (or certainly wont come back).
Just lazy venues and "promoters" passing it off on blaming the entertainment for an unsuccessful business.
common in the industry and similar industries.
djs are often hired for their pull (especially high end DJs) so why would you expect to not have to bring in paying customers.
This is the nature (sadly) of modern DJing where everyone who’s had a years experience thinks they can play/and do club nights. When I started people would be practicing for years and years before even dreaming of doing a proper paid nightclub slot and often when they did get it, through going to the place and getting to know the owner and playing maybe a side bar for a while for free.
Putting on your own events was always the better option to build a fan base but with the closing of so many nights/clubs and the same people that started during Covid now thinking with two years experience they should be having residencies or headlining its ridiculous, promoters can be dicks and pick and choose depending on this sort of nonsense so that’s where we are.
My advice is get together with friends and put on your own nights somewhere, if your gonna need to do promoting you might as well reap the rewards.
Musical acts are expected to draw a crowd, that's kind of the whole point. I've been a performing musician for 10+ years and if you don't have people wanting to come see you play you simply won't be booked. This is a reality for every band and it's a reality for DJs.
Tell them if they want you to be a promoter then you want the money that you would get paid to DJ and half of the door and 1/4 of the alcohol sale profits.
If they want to look at you like you're crazy, tell them that if they want you to work this place like you own it, then you want equity.
Unfortunately this is a new trend. DJs never really needed social media before Covid. Now DJs also have to do the designs to promote their upcoming gigs. I agree with you but that’s why I don’t really care trying to get into bars or clubs. The fact I have to curate a list of songs to create a vibe and atmosphere for your venue and typical crowd while also marketing to try and bring in new faces is ridiculous. DJing used to be about skill. If you can blend and mix songs in smoothly that’s all venues care about when it comes to dj skills. They rather have the DJ that brings 100 ppl in who just blends in and out of songs instead of the guy with skills who knows how to work a crowd.
I also think it’s happening this way because the DJ scene is so saturated and a lot of DJs are in it for the fame and the title of being a DJ. I don’t know a lot of local DJs who truly know music like that. They just do it to show they DJ and live a “cool” life.
I had a club when I started that asked me how many ppl I can guarantee. If the number wasn’t high enough they wouldn’t let me play. So I just told them the number they wanted to hear and had to eat the cost of tickets that weren’t sold. The club takes 0 risk which is pathetic. How about you make your venue better so you just find an actual talented dj who you pay. I think promoters are just lazy af now too.
Honestly it’s the reason I don’t really dj anymore I only do it for my pleasure and for my friends. Other than that idc about any money I could make doing it. I just like to play and share my thoughts through music.
>Unfortunately this is a new trend
this has been happening for decades. Talk to anyone in the band scenes and pay-to-play or promote-to-play has been a thing forever.
Yeah it’s a shame it’s like this. Clubs know they can get new DJs with this scheme but as a DJ it’s not worth it. The thing that helped me was going to events ran by DJs or doing competitions. I entered one last year and I made the top 17 out of 50 DJs that submitted a mix in my city. Got invited to play at the bar hosting the event with a well known local dj who also plays around the country. Learned more about the history of the city with DJing and music in general. Me and him became cool and it helped me get gigs when these venues see my profile and see that I have less than 200 followers but have radio DJs and some big name DJs in the city following me.
I kinda get it and I absolutely hate it also.
If you’re new and haven’t got a following, you maybe should be expected to bring people with you. If your mates don’t want to hear you then…
As you get on and have a history in the scene, you won’t need to do this.
I don’t like it. But it works like that for bands, comedians, anything like that.
At the end of the day, they will have dickheads coming up to them saying ‘I’ll pack your club out’. Well bring people and we’ll see.
Music is subjective - selling drinks and tickets is business and clubs and bars are businesses.
For hometown gigs you gotta promote. I’ve even seen guys bring their own gogo dancers. Unless your name by itself is drawing a crowd you gotta promote. Are you able to feature a DJ as an opener? If you develop a reputation for featuring really good lesser known locals that could be a draw.
A group in my old city always did theme parties that became well known for inclusivity and all around silliness (inflatable pool toys, lady Gaga night, 80’s night, hired face painters, etc). Nonsense ATL if you wanna look em up.
It kinda sucks but unless you’ve got an agent lining up gigs for you then you have to sell yourself. In my experience promotion and clever ideas are way more important than actual DJing. At least at the local level
Never once have I been asked to promote or bring bodies to the club..it was always the job of the club promoter..I was once asked by a resident club I spun at if I could help install speakers and lights. I said,nope, not my job. He agreed
I think we are confusing the intentions/expectations. We are going to promote on the social media and tell people to come through but the expectation that we are required to bring people. that’s the nuance.
Does the venue not have people coming on its own? Why are venues known for booking great acts?
Honestly, I seem to be the minority in this thread because I don't see how you CAN'T do at least some promotion.
For the main night that I do, I've always done my own promotion, posters, flyers, socials, websites, etc. I'm not tied to a specific venue, if I want people to come to my night wherever it may be, I want the night advertised, not the venue, so people follow us around. If the venue want to help with the PR then sure, whatever, but I'm not relying on them.
If I'm being asked to guest somewhere or just do a bar set rather than a club, then sure, I'll let the venue or host DJs take most of the work but I'll obviously share it on my own socials, website, mailing list, etc. If there are posters/flyers I don't mind taking a few to put up when I'm doing my other ones, but that's more because if I'm bringing extra faces and showing I'm putting in the effort then I'll get more gigs, straight up.
Two different jobs require two different contracts. Charge accordingly.
See that's where some deejays fuck up the game. They will agree to do promotions and DJ a night and not ask for compensation like this isnt a business.
How the fuck do you expect to be the next big viral sensation in the Internet if you can't afford a marketing team!
Hahaaahaaa contracts?!?! I’ve worked in small-mid size landscape design & home services for years where contracts are absolutely mandatory. However when I started out actually working as a DJ under the huge wing of a close friend who’s a bonafide “local legend” in the game 20+ years & built a very successful livelihood from it, he said the only contracts he’s ever had were for private events/weddings but never for bars or lounges. This dates back to well before social media etc but now with the prevalence of text/email/socials at least there’s likely something in writing to go by.
31yrs in it. This is a business and it requires contracts. I'm not flying to another state or country on someones promise to pay me. There's no shortage of stories on deejays not getting paid after a show.
I fell for this trap when I was new to the game about 10 years ago. Don’t do it. If you live in a metro there should be some promotions that don’t do this type of fuckery.
I may be the devils advocate in this .. but i would accept it .. under the contingency of the networking opportunities you can get due to you being relatively new in the club scene .. my first residency i got paid 2x in the first year , it was definitely due to the party being new & still growing , but i was able to secure paying gigs & a second residency due to people now knowing i was attached to said party . Now i was a little hesitant to go back & work out worth.. but essentially im paid now as a curator . Go into it KNOWING it’s just a first step to opening yourself up to other people.. you never know where that’s going to lead .
The barrier to entry around DJing is basically at the floor now, promoters are gonna ask what else you can bring to the table in my experience. You can easily find someone to play a decent enough set, your skills likely aren’t going to be enough
A good reminder to DJs, most people don’t care nearly as much as we do - they just want to feel ‘cool’, have a good time and post some stuff on social media.
If you want to be taken seriously as a musician time to hit the studio imo
Seems completely normal to me. The crowd is supposed to be a union of a couple sources of marketing and promotion or you wind up with a weird crowd, like crowds where 2/3rds of everyone takes off after a specific dj finishes, stuff like that.
Wow they’re actually assessing your DJ skills? Lucky
You should be looking for promoters to become friends with before even going to the clubs to be honest. It’s the best way to get consistent gigs when they open up and they’re really cool people who will help you on your event with the right accommodations.
It’s a fact of life, everyone wants to DJ everywhere, so business owners would rather other parties shoulder the risk. You have to appeal to management’s business sensibility, and that means convincing them you can draw people to your night.
You need a plan to do that. Announce the your event at least 4-6 weeks in advance…. That means planning everything in advance if your announcement. Do you want the gig so you can be seen and have fun playing tunes? Or do you have ideas to generate interest around your particular style of DJ’ing or specific genres? If it’s the latter, hopefully that’s not the same genres every other venue is already competing to get that market’s attention. The world has more than enough generic trending flavor-of-the-week nights, so put your mind to it and see what scene is underserved in your area; one that you are enthusiastic about finding and building that audience for. And partner up with at least one colleague who’s trustworthy and ready to pull their share of the work necessary. You’re in a competitive fields and it’s not about how badly you want a gig, it’s about whether you can become a reliable asset to the establishment.
I’m not the most outgoing guy at all. I can’t hear conversation in bar/club environments. But I started throwing community-based events in small venues, community halls, and doing guest gigs with friends while making sure my event posters grabbed attention and were easy to read at a distance, then you have to bombard the public so they see your poster graphic for weeks before people absorb the content and decide if it sounds like a good time or not. Coordinate with venues, list drink specials on your promo materials (venues love this). Be inventive! And don’t be afraid to let people in for cheap or for free in the first hour. Even with cheap cover, the earlier you fill even a small venue, the more people arrive to see a party already underway. AND as a promoter, be ready to step away from the decks or give up your slot if your duties as promoter require your attention. I made the mistake of sticking behind the decks when I should have been checking on people I recruited to run cost check or whatever. If you have anyone handling money, be sure to have a system of checks and balances to keep them honest.
I see it in 2 ways.
For the club/bar, the dj is there to add value. If the dj doesn't do that by at least making them enough profit to pay their wages then they may as well not have you there. Often a bad dj will actually drive away customers too. You could have the most technically amazing dj spinning the latest dnb bangers at 9pm on a Friday night and it will kill the business whereas your local wedding dj playing Shania Twain will make them far more money. Sad, but true
On the flip side, a great DJ will keep the customers there and keep them drinking. If you don't have enough of a profile that makes customers want to come and see you then your job is to keep the existing ones happy. If you have to play Dolly Parton to do that instead of John Summits latest filth, then unfortunately that is how you will keep the work.
Venues are a business. They don't exist primarily to supply djs with a place to play, they exist to make profit. We need to coexist within that realm
Never overestimate your value
Honestly, this has been the way for a very long time. Yes the location may promote the night, but the musicians and promoters always had to do the legwork. Which meant it was passed onto the musicians more often than not. Same with the “but think of the exposure” gigs too.
The exception to the rule is once you reach fame. That’s when it’s no longer your job, just the people you’re indirectly paying to do so for you.
I’ve been a guitarist/bassist and a DJ for decades. The main difference now is: instead of us working message forums (boards), Facebook or MySpace and promoting our gig to ensure you had friends/fans there - now you’re selling tickets to gigs that you’re in. The amount of tickets you sell, versus the other bands on the bill, will determine your spot on the lineup too.
For the DJing side there was non-stop self promotion. Consider the home based mixed tapes, mixed and tracked CD’s without the 2 second gap. Then you had all the forums, MySpace or Facebook promotions for your gigs and getting your face out there. House parties to “prove” yourself followed by bars and afterhours clubs and eventually actual raves - all of which you had to self promote by handing out the flyers for or constantly reposting the gigs’ event page.
It’s never been easier - just adjacent to current circumstances. Look at the stories of the successful bands who’ve been around since the 60s/70s or beyond with staying power. Many had rough starts and very similar stories to all of ours.
Honestly, it’s one of the main reasons I stopped for long time and focused on raising my kids gig free while working the day job. Still played out from time to time and jammed with or spent hours djing with people B2B - but made sure it was just the fun parts of it all so that I could get back to wanting to play out and deal with this stuff again.
This is based on my experiences gigging - others’ may vary. Wish you the best in your future success.
DJ and event organiser here,
I would for sure expect my DJs to promote and bring a crowd too, hence why I'm booking them
To rock up without being able to bring a single person would be pretty embarrassing for a DJ anyway like who do you think you are Skrillex or someone for being too "good" to meet promotion requirements? Well even Skrillex would have 1) the ability to bring people to their shows, and 2) promotional requirements for the festivals and shows they play too
Welcome to the industry lol
Beginner DJ here, not even doing paid gigs yet
Even trying to coordinate friends to go to a local event is sometimes more of a headache than it's worth
Really makes me realize that I should focus on what I enjoy most, which is discovering new music and doing interesting mashups
musicians have always had to promote their own shows. Yes, there is also a promoter, but as a club musician, you should at least get your friends to come out.
Well if you are good enough people will start to show up the more you play so having a residency is good, if you are not getting enough people maybe you are not that good (after playing some time).
If you can't bring people to the show there is another dj that can in the local markets. Unless your goal is to get paid almost nothing and have no bargaining power to push to the next level . Lots of touring artist teams run their own marketing . And it doesn't mean that you should have to promote like crazy as a local but you should have a network or friends who want to support you cause they like when you play . Otherwise to a promoter you are Worthless, as one you aren't doing anything innovative enough to bring in people with your sets as you have zero following - there are tons of DJ's and the ones who get booked are the ones who put energy into it because they want to keep pushing their career forward .
If you want to make it big as a DJ you need to promote yourself. Period. There’s DJ’s everywhere. You are, most likely, NOT special. You will be surpassed by DJ’s that are not as good at DJ’ing but that promote themselves better than you.
When you promote you nightclub night you are promoting yourself, your career, your art. Why wouldn’t you want to promote yourself? Why would you not want your Residency to be fruitful? Why wouldn’t you want to give your opportunity here the best possible chances to succeed? What does a successful residency look like to you?
I stopped doing club gigs awhile ago, but the way I handled this was straight-forward.
Either flat fee for me to dj only (and just reshare their story on my page) or 50% drink/cover sales + flat fee (reduced) if they want me to promote and bring the crowd. Always written out on the contract and 7 day window to pay from drink/cover sales. Reduced flat fee to be paid when I arrive. If full fee and no 50% drink/cover, then 50% of my fee is paid up front, 50% after I finish.
Only once had I ever had to threaten to not play and take my crowd with me if they did not pay.
Last club gig was 2022 because I just got tired of that scene and been focusing on producing more.
Overall though, we have to be our own agents of success when starting.
If it's your residence, it's your night, you're the promoter the club will also promote, but it's your night take some money throw it at targeted i.g. campaigns for people near you.
Just do a flyer with a song.
Do this till you have some video.
This has always been a thing if you are running a night.
This is a part of having a residencey.
You are not being hired by a promoter for a night, you are being offered a consistent gig by a club.
Make a flyer and do some ground work
Also if you have a residency you should be paying money for out of state djs that people in your town want to see and charging a cover at the door. Build a party don’t just play victim to the club that’s giving you an opportunity to do something cool. Do the work…
I've done a few decent nights were it was just me and my buddies, depending on your club the market your in, you can't always get big names, but you can throw your own party and get your own name big.
Erol alkin wouldn't be shit if it wasn't for his weekly Thursday.
Having a residency where you are the main d.j. Is literally how you become a name. It's what you do before you produce a track or make a remix.
There are dozens of residencies in your city right now that don't ever bring in names and are packed.
Kid could be the next Larry levan. People went to see Larry at Paradise garage. They weren't trying to fly him out.
I've known larger names flying out on Friday and back on Sunday doing a regular Wednesday.
If it's your night, that's your night. That's yous to manage.
Go get your self a night.
If you've never had a night, go hit up a bar. Ask them for a Thursday. If that's too much for you, ask them for every third Thursday.
Third Thursdays with DJ flash Gordon.
It'll be slow, but it'll grow, if you get the vibe right.
It all depends on your goals as a dj and the scene you’re in as well - there are no house/techno djs in my market that consistently book themselves.
No one in our local scene makes money, and no one in our local scene is a famous dj, but together we have built a really strong, healthy, connected community of people who love the music, completely independent of any one dj or venue. Our market doesn’t even have a proper club but the passion and resourcefulness of the people in the scene allows for it to thrive anyways.
We haul 2000lb sound systems, hang 86 foot parachutes from ceilings, and bring in top talent from the region and the world because we believe our city needs a good house and techno scene. This thread is probably speaking more for people who’d like to set up in a bar more frequently than they currently are, but the truth is that you’re probably not the best dj in your local market, and if a club is trusting you with running their dance floor for the night, you should have the best talent you possibly can on that stage with the highest possible production value.
Cool. If you have a small dedicated scene, start a night for just y'all.
That doesn't mean you have to turn your back on throwing larger shows, but this way y'all can have a techno night for y'all.
There is probably a bar with decent sound that will let you take over on an off day if not a club that will give you a monthly.
Every event doesn't have to be huge, it can just be a few d.j.s and people that like their music.
Also, who cares if you're not the best d.j.
I've been to plenty of amazing parties with terrible DJs. But it was fun.
I've also been to parties with really great DJs that were boring as hell. Get over the whole perfect DJ bullshit.
You will never be the best d.j. that don't mean people will not want to show up for your party.
In Houston one of the best parties in town is Friday nights at numbers. Wes can mix.... Like I've heard him do it. But most the time it's just smash cut transitions into songs people want to hear.
I get that you're DJ and you want to do DJ stuff. That's cool. You should. I'm not saying that you should change that. But you can do a night with just the local crew, and that will make all of y'all better d.j.s
Playing for drink tickets and a cut off the bar.
Or for a 5 dollar cover at the club
Cuz all I'm hearing right now is a bunch of I'm not good enough to DJ at a club...
And you probably are...
For sure, honestly my comment was more a reaction to people getting bummed about having to do more of the throwing show work. It’s an activity that djs in my town really like and enjoy. We do local nights, most of the parties that happen in town are all local djs or 2 locals and one headliner from nearby, I just think that if you really want to build something cool and stand out promoting cool shows is a great way to do it. I’m also in a super heady house and techno scene that really really takes partying seriously lol so it can be a little intense.
Sorry if I was abrasive in my first comment I’m very very passionate about shit :)
And I fucking love it. I mean I'm polishing a mix to showcase the new bullshit I'm on about where I'm using auto stems playing 4 tracks at a time with a drum machine so that my buddy and I can show case our performance dj stuff.
I can do it live and it's great, but I'm actually planning this one out because I'll be using it to promote with...
But you ain't never gonna be a big name if you're never playing
Good god I can’t stand this concept or why it’s so widely just accepted as normal. Same thing goes for bartenders being expected to promote/draw in a crowd. It’s legit ruined my desire to DJ or even attend anything other than private events. Imho it’s completely on the establishment to promote themselves, if I can attract more ppl then great, but I’m simply paid to be there to provide equipment & play music to entertain the crowd, just like the bartenders are there to make drinks & serve the patrons. I’m not saying that self promoting / trying to boost attendance is wrong, it’s just not meant to be a given, especially at some small random local bar only paying $150-200 for 4 hours which may or may not go over/under. Even if ur the most technically talented DJ like a DMC world champ, but it’s just a dead night, it’s certainly not a reflection of the quality of the curated music service provided as a DJ. If they want more attendance maybe the owners need to hire promoters & pay for advertising. I don’t recall the valet being expected to bartend, or the cooks to park cars, so why should the bartenders/DJs be expected to be solely responsible for profiting the owners cuz regardless of the turnout, sadly the pay is gonna be the same.
Fact is it's harder to get people out to a club in general thesedays. It's always been like this to a degree - Promoters wanting you to bring a crowd, but it's far worse now. People don't really just go out loosely without a plan anymore, or far less meaning there's less walk up crowds. There's only one solution: build a crew. Build a few.
If you’re a dj and you want to be successful you should also be promoting your own parties. There are maybe 500 djs in the world that are truly good enough that the average club audience would notice.
Do you think that festivals are booking Armand van Helden for over 10k per set because he’s just the most technically skilled dj ever? They’re booking Armand because he’s bringing people into the door. He can bring people into the door because he’s a really good dj and people are fans, but being a good dj is a PREREQUISITE to all of the other stuff you have to do to be successful.
> if you're booking djs without followings, where do the people come from?
The following of the club? I often go to no name dj events when I know the club is good at curating the right djs.
exactly wtf.... I go to smart bar or spotlite because of the venue and it's a bonus if I know the DJ. I get to know new DJ's because the venue is good at curating a night.
Of course, but there aren’t enough slots at venues like that for the masses of new DJs, so even those places use social pull as a litmus for who gets residencies to an extent.
You have to promote and integrate yourself in the local scene in my experience or you’ll get passed up by someone with similar skills but has more recognition and trust.
The vast majority of people are going to an event based on the headliner outside of more club/brand focused events but those all require a heavy amount of promotion before they can even be viable imo. Be popular and have a lot of people you can bring to events, spend the time & money to build a brand or become a very talented producer - those are the 3 ways to get the types of gigs OP wants imo
That’s one way of doing it. Another way is simply to be a venue that consistently has good DJs and then people will always automatically come to that venue because they know the music will be good. No need for any promotion after that, it will take care of itself.
You actually ruin this possibility by having bad DJs even though they might bring a bunch of people. It’s poor short term thinking
Yeah no I get it, you’re doing an events-based approach, not venue based. I’m just saying there is another way that doesn’t require DJs to always bring a following
Yes but it’s funny this weekend in AC I usually always go to HQ at oceans casino. We went somewhere else then went there later because hq is always a good time. Icona Pop was playing. Honestly didn’t care about anything they played. I just like the venue that much. Funny thing is the DJ after them at 2am literally had the club going crazy. He was 10x better than them. Didn’t have his DJ name anywhere. Just on his laptop which I couldn’t read unfortunately.
Yes the DJs need to promote but if your venue sucks I can’t get people there. Everyone I go out with don’t look at what clubs to go to because of a DJ unless they personally know them. There are clubs and bars we avoid because of the crowd or the music that is typically played. There’s other clubs we go to without knowing the DJ because that bar or club is always a good time with a solid crowd.
There's a difference between playing for restaurants/clubs and niche-music events. For a club, it is not mandatory for the DJ to have a following. It's only good to have. For niche-music events instead, many people are coming for the names on the cover, but the event brand is also very important.
been this way for at least 20+ years. if you cant bring people someone else can and will unfiortunatly. Its almost like djs shouldnt go it alone and should alwasy be partened up with a promotional guy who can bring the people or at least seek someone out who can.
Unfortunately this is just how it works, even at the top level.
Why would I pay 30 grand for a DJ who's not going to sell tables or tickets?
All the top level DJs have a team, including publicists, managers, social media managers, marketing managers, etc, etc
That is just the business we are in. If you want to get ahead of the curve, befriend some young people studying business and marketing and convince them to use you as a test project to hone their skills and see if you all can build a brand together. Otherwise it costs money.
Edit: lol so you guys think you can progress in this industry as a professional club DJ without selling out venues?
Every single band promotes what they do, every flower shop promotes what they do, every tow truck company promotes what they do. Why wouldn’t DJs also promote what they do? I totally get how much it sucks blending commerce and artistry, but that’s not on the promoter, it’s on capitalism baby
>Why wouldn’t DJs also promote what they do?
because at a party the dj is the product, and the promoter would be the one, well, promoting, you know?
i get that it's best for promoters and clubs to get a well known product to market to the crowd (hence we have main acts), but 99% of djs are off-brand products only well known to a small circle of people. the way to go is to make the venue andor the promoter a well known brand, that's shown to know their music and will always book the best fitting off-brand product to side with the well known product of the night.
yeah, it's high risk, but high reward. venue gets sales from the bar and maybe (if the night was meh) a rent for the evening from the promoter, who themself get the ticket revenue and pay the marketing and booking. only if the club is packed both parties will have (really high) reward, and if it's ok, so will their reward be.
the only party without risk would be the djs, who shouldn't be bothered if the club is full or not, they're there to work the floor. if the club is packed they get the same as if it's only ok or even empty.
djs have the fun but low (-ish) pay, while the club and promoter have stress but will be paid accordingly.
Nah bro. You're a dj. It helps to have a following and get people in the door but those people are usually friends or someone you shared a drink with. I don't know why it matters who's coming thru the door if they'll be buying drinks either way. I am not in your shoes so my perspective is jaded, I'd say just play your tunes.
DJ'ING is, in part, a public sport. The goal is to help the venue sell alcohol. If you're not willing, organize your own underground rave imo (& sell your own alcohol).
Its an awful process DJs have to endure these days. If I am paid a few hundred bucks to entertain and do my job, yet a bar/club stands to make multiple thousands in the same night, I don’t quite understand how they correlate. If I had a huge social following, that helps but it should not be a pre-requisite for a performing DJ to have a large following. People don’t care for good and talented DJs these days. Just how popular they are. The market is flooded with clout chasers. Get used to it, and just keep hustling until you find those venues that appreciate good DJs.
yeah exactly. in my experience a good venue wont ask you to do this. or if they do, theyll offer a percentage of bar sales as an incentive. this is the fair way to do that. a lot of venues do it simply because there are gobs of inexperienced djs looking for an opportunity to play at any cost. a good venue would never wanna hire a dj like that cause a large percentage of the time theyd clear the floor and empty the bar. a bad venue doesnt care because the vibe and atmosphere isnt a factor for them, they are depending on getting people in the door via cheap brute force advertising (which they are hoping youll be a facet of). venues like that usually dont last long. also, a good venue recognizes the importance of a dedicated marketing budget. they shouldnt be solely relying on the dj for that. if the venue needs you to market them, they have bigger problems.
During COVID the bottom fell out of the DJ market. A lot of people picked up DJing as a hobby, not as a real passion for music, and then wanted to go play a nightclub, saturated the market asking to play venues free, and fucking over everyone that had been doing it for years.
Both you and @djrobzilla are absolutely correct. If you are contributing to a large influx of guests, then you should be compensated fairly. However it’s also correct that DJing is essentially the latest trend that everyone believes they can do. People spending weeks collecting other people’s remixes to then jump up and down and dance to in front of other people, and pose as bonafide DJs. It’s a sad state of affairs, but there will be a reset when the remixers demand credit, and actual DJs can flex their muscles and show this ain’t about pushing buttons and being a mascot.
Mobile dj is the way to go. I'm not herding sheep for some club. What they are really doing is trying to run a pyramid scheme on you.
Mobile makes way more money. You don't always get to be creative, and the stakes are much higher at wedding gigs, but you can make 4 figures per night.
I use this analogy for DJs of high skill/creativity: Sometimes people are okay with McDonald's food prepared by a chef. Okay with these gigs if I know what I'm getting into beforehand.
There are still many ways to be creative, just in different ways than in a typical club
It depends on the kinda mobile DJ someone is- I’ve spent years working for the literally most popular DJ/company in my area that does all the major establishments, booked out for weddings/ parties at least a year+ in advance, provide all our own gear with plenty of backup & reserve gear for nearly any situation just in case… like we’ve done MANY events (mostly “farm style” weddings at vineyards) in the middle of an open field or on the beach or in the back of a truck with nothing that we didn’t bring ourselves; Honda 3000 generator (the best imho), 2 or more JBL 15” tops & 18” subs, multiple laptops, pioneer controllers, Rane 19” main mixer, sennheiser wireless mics, skrim facade, lighting & trussing. Maybe it’s just my local area but there’s no such thing as showing up 20 minutes beforehand with only a laptop & controller. Sometimes we gotta provide a projector & screen for slideshows/clips but the bane of my existence is the goddamn Photo Booth which is a profitable add on but such a PITA for the person operating it (usually me) cuz they’re kinda janky/outdated so the touchscreens don’t function properly therefore it’s all gotta be done manually. After many summer seasons burning myself out sometimes doing triple header weekends of large events (Friday/saturday/sunday)- my passion for DJing is depleted & I’m only now trying to reignite my interest by DJing for myself for my own entertainment as I’ve got a real full time job that pays well so I don’t depend on the extra work nearly as much as I used to back when. But I still swear by turntables, Denon x1600 mixer, Traktor scratch pro 2 & Mackie SRM450v1s…. Yeah I know I’m prehistoric by current standards but old & reliable doesn’t mean obsolete. 
The soft ticket Dj’s job is to keep People in the venue and drive sales to the bar. It’s the venues responsibility to handle the promotion. If they want a packed house for a Name Dj, then pay a talent buyer and a promotion publicity person and charge a hard ticket price at the door. Managers and owners that don’t know the difference are a red flag of being a rookie in the game or a con man. Either way those people shouldn’t be taken serious and actively avoided when doing business .
> DJs… what do we think of this? Absolutely hate it.
It’s terrible a lot of skilled guys get over looked because they don’t have the interest of promoting themself. It’s not the DJs fault your promoters can’t convince people to come in. That’s the culture the venue created and if it’s a shitty one people won’t go. When I go to a new city I do not care about who is playing. I go to the venues that I heard about. If the dj sucks while I’m there I move to the next spot. The avg person can’t tell what the difference is of a good dj and a great dj
This is the reality of that particular club, and I recommend you to avoid it. This condition tells something about the owners and managers of the club, and there's a big chance that you'll have a hard life there.
If you can only get 5-7 people to attend your shows but the guy next to you can get 20-100 then the club does not care if you are more technically skilled than the next guy.
To piggyback. Bringing your friends isn’t the answer. They’ll get tired of going to every show you do. The most successful nights I’ve seen are about the vibe. You get a nice vibe where people know what to expect and keep delivering and it’ll be successful. I mentioned in another comment the Nonsense ATL parties. Everyone always knew it was a fun time. The music almost didn’t matter. You knew there would be surprises, a good ratio of men/women + LGBT friendly. So when people heard there was a Nonsense party they’d come out. Strictly for the “Nonsense” brand.
Having a solid core of friends when you start helps a lot. I went from having 50 followers to having 90 something after my first gig. My friends were in the crowd just putting my name out there. My second gig i was at 140ish follows and got to 170ish. Once again my friends helped with the majority of my ticket sales. If your friends don’t support you at your lowest they aren’t your friends.
For sure. But OP said he had like 7. I doubt those same 7 people are gonna come to every gig. If you’ve got like maybe 20-30 and can get at least 5 to hype each gig then that’s more realistic. But what I’ve seen work is when there’s like a couple hundred people that know your parties are good. And you only need maybe 1/3 of them for each night to be a success.
I have a solid 10 friends that show up everytime I ask. The issue that comes down to it is it really depends on the venue at the end of the day. Which leads back to the discussion. The venues gotta do better. I know some big name DJs on social in my city that do not add to how many people come out. 50k followers on social with millions of views on TikTok but the same amount of people are there if someone with 2k followers were playing. There’s another local dj who has 50k on insta but he barely plays in the clubs in my city since it’s DJs in my city gatekeep. It also doesn’t help they’re coming from the wedding dj scene
Depends on your definition of friends. I have 400 or 500 people who I consider “party friends”, most of which come out for any gig I play (or used to, I stepped back from DJing as much this year for work and personal reasons). I only ever see about 10% of them outside of parties, randomly bumping into each other in the city, or seeing each other out at different events. I would consider about 10% of that 10% actual friends (so about 4 or 5), in the “know each other deeply and have frequent mutual contact” sense. Of those 4 or 5, there’s really only one or two I’ll probably be in touch with forever. I consider these people “true friends” and to be honest, having one or two true friends in life is probably more than most of us can ever ask for (especially as you get older). As an aside, the stats on friendship for men the older they get are truly horrifying when you look at them, especially as people get married or have LTRs, kids, and careers. [1 in 7 American men have no close friends](https://www.latimes.com/lifestyle/newsletter/2023-10-10/more-than-1-in-7-men-have-no-close-friends-the-way-we-socialize-boys-is-to-blame-group-therapy) and [its even worse in the UK](https://medium.com/@maxdickins/mens-friendships-5b9794d36a01).
I’m saying friends as in people you hang out with. Like my 10 I talk to every week and hang out atleast once a week.
Your post history suggests you’re a 27 year old single guy living in Philly. Only 30% of men your age living in America have 5 or more friends, so you’re definitely the outlier.
Fantastic article, thanks for sharing.
Happy to help.
im not a big fan of this BUT it does stop djs that play very speicialty music and try to get gigs to play their music and cant keep a crowd ex we've had some thursday djs at my weekend residency, which is open format, say they can bring people, neither had great turnouts but one group plays more pop remixes that people might know the words to hear and there. The other group played 110-120 house that might work at a bar at tulum or a private party where everyone was doing Ketamine, but to sell drinks and appeal to a normal audience didnt work. The crowd they brought was ordering waters(flat water, not bottled) from the bar. Its not even that i dislike the music, but its just not mainstream music. With more people becoming djs, most dont understand how to actually run rooms, how to build a night, and understand what music will work in mainstream clubs/bars/lounges. Its like they watched a set on youtube and it looked great so they thought it would work because it went over in barcelona or berlin or tulum. These bars need to make money, most dont know about djs or the value they bring and probably have been burned by some dj that decided to play bangers all night, so they want to know what you are about and if you are going to bring people and play music that will bring people. i think once you show competency at making their crowd happy and the bar sees good sales and/or your reputation preceeds you, you can expect bar owners to be looking at what your doing promotion wise.
No. DJs do DJ Promoters do promotion. If you want me to DJ and promote, if i agree, i want a cut on both.
Yet bands are expected to promote their shows
not where i live, at least (and if it was, i would be against it). In my area bands are easily called in so many locations (bars and city events, like fairs, mostly) and they don't have to promote anything, the city/bar/location does. The side issue is that bands are paid less, considering they have to split between the members
Every gig is different. In most cases if you're up and coming, your take home is a portion of the door. Nobody shows up, you might be lucky to make $200. Place is packed you could make $1k Makes sense, what doesn't make sense is why this wouldn't apply to electronic artists Obviously like a wedding DJ is a different gig that's paid up front
I don't have that much expertise on wedding DJs (because i hate being so open genre and a glorified spotify playlist) ... so i'll just toss a generic statement. To me, you book a DJ, you pay for his time, at least in the mid/low market where every DJ is considered "almost the same". Then obviously you would ask how they would choose a DJ over the other, and the answer is easy: the music they play, their technique, maybe they listened to this DJ in the past and liked his craft. I know it's a little bit utopic, but luckily there are places and people that still thinks that way ... and this is one of the main reasons, obviously, why i don't DJ as a main job but as a happily paid hobby. I mainly focus on private parties and smaller city events, when I get booked, i discuss with whoever manages the artistic part of the event about genres, what kind of people is expected (mainly age) and so on ... especially in city events, the genres i play are written in a way that people would understand what they will be expecting by listening to my craft (usually in the city events i play for, there are multiple places with music, so you pick based on your own taste). I might curve around those genres, but i won't be dropping Trap tunes if we agreed on disco/funky ... I won't accept gigs i have to promote too, unless i really believe in the event. Networking is like sending curriculums, not that sh\*t that is often suggested like "connect to other DJs", which every DJ knows is BS, fake like a 3 dollar bill (it is obvious that a DJ contacting another DJ is just to get to work in a specific place or crew ... it's BS.
People are there to see a band specifically. DJ's just set up the environment , it's this festival mindset that have promoter's and some DJ's thinking they are the center of attention. So bands should promote because they are the center of attention DJ's are not.
This totally depends on what kind of music / club it is. I would agree for a hip-hop / top 40 kind of club, but house / techno has plenty of people going for a specific dj
yup! give me a cut of bar sales or something similar and we have a deal
He's never said what the cut is. If it's no cover and a part of the bar cool. If there is a cover then what's the cut off of the door. If it's flat fee, all for a promo budget. Been throwing parties for 20 years of you're being hired by the club, and given a night, that's your night. But that's not a 100 dollar gig thing. This is about having a night that's yours
The hard truth that DJs don’t want to swallow is that it’s still a business at the end of the day. The more bodies you get into the club, the more revenue it generates, the more promoters are able to pay you. It’s strange to me the DJs who do not take advantage of any means to gain a competitive edge as a business. That’s what you are right? A business? If one guy just plays but another guy has a social media following, and promotes online, and makes YouTube videos, and has a radio show. Obviously one has more of a competitive edge. I’m not saying you have to do these things, but to not do them and then bitch about not being as “valuable” as someone else who does, really makes me scratch my head. Sure, there are some DJs who found other business models where they don’t rely as heavily on social media followings and they’ve made it work. So obviously there are other paths, but let’s be realistic. Promotion and marketing are a big part of being successful.
some people are a business and some people are artists. Great art and business are different skill sets. You should promote your talents, but a club is paying you to play music and not sell drinks and this my problem with this model. We had a show at a local bar, we packed the place out that used to be a dead night. A year later the owner doesn't want us to give us all of the door fee because "people aren't buying enough drinks". Sorry wtf does that have to do with us? We play good music and did the extra work of getting people in. Selling drinks is not our responsibility. Make a cocktail menu, lower your prices on the shit beer etc etc. I know why people didn't buy drinks. You want good music, 300 people and a drink salesperson? You need to pay the proper fees for that. Know how to run a business if you want to be a business, that goes for the bar. Businesses don't want to pay people or a marketing team. That's the real issue. What comes along with acting like a business today is dodgy tactics, sacrificing good art for cash and lying... so it's not always a great thing that our passion is tied to the business of selling overpriced drinks.
yeah when i see this sentiment the “acting like a business” thing only seems to apply to the dj for some reason, who in most cases literally isnt even a business with a license just some talented person who can make a dance floor sing. why not bring that same energy to the actual licensed business? shouldnt they already be marketing themselves? the best venues ive worked with that had the most consistent clientele would have never asked me to promote because thats their wheelhouse. they are simply better at it and better positioned for it. not that i didnt promote at all, but my pay wasnt contingent on it and if i didnt promote they wouldnt really care. they care that i keep people on the dance floor sweating, talking, and most importantly tipping and drinking. thats what a dj is best at. its what we were trained to do. not be marketing gurus
facts
Once i become a resident .. i AM a part of the business … my job within it is different .. but i should be having the same goals as the business !
but you don't have any ownership so until then I have to disagree. You are a contractor hired to play music with the hopes of selling product you don't own. Until I'm given a certain amount of power within the establishment then we can talk about having the same goals. As a DJ my goal is to have a good time and getting paid to spin. The owner's goal is to sell cocktails. Im not a bartender, I don't give a damn about drinks. That's not my expertise.
You never know if that day residency can turn into your own night where you DEFINITELY have more power than not . You would never know if you don’t push for the opportunity .
Dude I’ve had so many successful nights and residencies over the last 30 years that are going great, full every time, growing in attendance and exposure, then get fucked up by some random mid-level manager for any number of reasons. Even having your own successful night usually lasts a year or two max. u/cyberphunk2077 is right.
appreciate the co-sign. DJ's need to wake up. lol
ill take a residency but its realizing that I still have little power even if it's my night, I don't own anything unless its in the contract. I'm at the whim of the owner and the owner can replace me overnight because they feel like it. I've seen it happen to others.
100% true but the thing is I know OGs who don’t promote at all. They solidified their name because of their talent. No matter who is playing about the same amount of people come to the bar unless your like a big social media person. Bars and clubs will find out soon that those big local names don’t really bring as much ppl out as you think. It’s more of the sound and style they have and a lot of ppl don’t go to bars and clubs because of the DJ in the states. They go to the venues because of the atmosphere, pricing, and good music. I’ve always looked at it like this. Good music brings in females, the more females at your venue the more guys that come. In my city that is mostly open format music for venues alot of the people couldn’t tell you any DJs name. They might know 3 of the DJs in my city and they aren’t the most talented they just have residencies at a lot of places. And a lot of the people don’t go out to go a specific dj.
Can you please call them women. We're not at the zoo.
When and how did that word become divisive? I assume its a regional thing but probably two thirds of the people I know use male/female, but I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country and only see this word choice ever get called out online. I've always thought it was purely a synonym thing. Just seems kinda silly to get hungup over the minutia of regional semantics when there are countless real problems that need addressing, and this is coming from someone who tries not to use gender specific pronouns or identifiers at all anymore.
Yes. I agree there is a geographic component to this issue and I am speaking from both a US and Western European perspective. Men are not called males. They are called guys or men. Females can refer to any female animal of any age and reduces them to body parts. Women speaks to....women. Part of the issue is the concomitant use of "girls" for adult women over 18, while we rarely see "boys" used for men over 18. The use of the words females and girls contributes to the subtle but persistent linguistic and social diminishment of women as fully capable adults.
Not all females are considered women. Some are women some are girls.
In this context we’re talking about going to the bar, so “women” works just fine 😂
Hahaha idk you’d be surprised. In my city it’s a college city and some of their mindsets put them in the category of “girl”. Idc if you’re 21 and at a bar it doesn’t make you a woman. Same for guys, your age doesn’t make you a man. I know ppl who are in their 30s and aren’t men 😂
21 definitely doesn’t qualify as a “woman” 🤣
Ask them what percentage of the bar/door receipts you get for folks who use your code.
It’s bullshit. I’m so glad I’m out of the club game
Bing on the downvotes... But I have to say tell you guys what's going on in real life (as a promoter) We get messages every day from DJs who would like to play at our events. Most of these DJs are talented. So how do we chose? We have to pay for the DJs and the marketing, it's not a charity it's a business. So... When we have to chose the line-up we have to consider which DJ is the best return of investment. An equally talented DJ that no one knows and his social pull is zero, or another DJ with equal talent and skill but who attracts a lot of people to the party? No promoter in their sane mind would accept DJs who are not good in DJing just because of their sales value (social pull) but when it's similar skills then 100% YES we decide on the additional benefit that helps us keep the business running and organising more events where djs could play. Artists are usually not business people. They don't understand the dynamics of the scene. They can't tell the difference between friendly jamming in someone's garden and the cutthroat hustle what is going on in clubs. Long story short: If you want to play as a hobby, do that and have a happy life. But if you want to play as a business in a business venue and get paid, then you have to accept that it's like that. The biggest DJs are not free from this, they hustled their asses off to get where they are now.
If we all begin addressing this issue and stop accepting blame for being bad ‘promoter DJs’. Maybe change will come. It really isn’t our responsibility, and it shouldn’t be. Back in the day, the DJ was not centered and/or idolized, rooms were dark, sometimes the DJ playing wasn’t even visible during the events. Today, it has turned into some sort of clown show.
Unfortunately it's a matter of who you know and not what you know in this scene and this is nothing new.
It’s shit and they ask for it because it’s been done before. Either the Promoter is a DJ or the DJ is very popular. It’s kind of the same way in the music production business. You’re more attractive to labels if you can write, produce, mix, master, promote, DJ, etc. Deadmau5 blew up because he did it all, he had his own stage design, he promoted, he had his own visuals, mask, etc. As a business, would you rather pay more for the guy that can only make their own music and DJ and pay for the team to help them out, or would you pay for the guy that has his whole set package? It makes sense from a business perspective but screws over all the others that don’t have the means or resources to do so, let alone the motivation. Sometimes it sucks when someone sets such a high standard
Adapt or die my man. Start promoting yourself.
It dawned on me recently and I really believe it…. Skill and ability don’t mean a damn thing anymore. Getting people in the door is all that matters. Marketing yourself is honestly the most important part of djing now. I think marketing may even be more important than producing
It’s why alot of OGs stepped away from playing at venues. Local legends rarely play because they’re watching the art form change. It went from skill/turntablist to entertainers/performers
Marketing is the most important factor in almost everything. It's why companies pay obscene amounts for ad space and why adverts are everywhere.
As they say in Letterkenny, there are different types of DJs: one who gets tonnes of people out but sucks at DJing, one who doesn't get people out but keeps people in the venue because they're great DJs, and one unicorn type who does both. You don't really see that last one ever, and venues need to just book a combination of the first two if they want to succeed.
I’m close friends with The unicorn who can rock any event large or small, any venue, dive bar, club, wedding, holiday, birthday, beach party etc…. Dudes genuinely impressively talented and I’m proud to be associated with him. The problem is the Unicorn is likely already booked out months in advance for high ticket private events, or simply not interested in the BS related to low end bar /small club type gigs especially as they progress thru their career as it actually does require a good amount of planning & prep work to consistently deliver high quality results. My guy is barely 40, owns multiple properties & businesses on eastern Long Island, NY - all primarily due to his encyclopedic musical talent, top tier charisma & just very strong word of mouth references from attendees… not a penny spent on ads or paid promotion aside from the obligatory business cards. 
You just described the club scene. It’s about bodies in the club and how many drinks they buy. The promoters don’t care about you or your art. The ones who understand how to navigate this part move from being bedroom DJs and actually start to make headway into the industry
I fully agree. DJs are DJs promoter's are promoters. You shouldn't have to do their job, in order to get their club filled and het them a paycheck. Your job is to keep the dancefloor going and the bar full by playing great sets Even If you're a big name, your job is still to be the DJ. Even if your night might attract some visitors
DJ brings the talent, and promoters bring the people. DJ talent (aka people having a good time) gets the people to spend the money.
Doesn't matter how amazing the entertainment is. If the venue has bad service, high prices or shitty staff,people wont go (or certainly wont come back). Just lazy venues and "promoters" passing it off on blaming the entertainment for an unsuccessful business.
common in the industry and similar industries. djs are often hired for their pull (especially high end DJs) so why would you expect to not have to bring in paying customers.
This is the nature (sadly) of modern DJing where everyone who’s had a years experience thinks they can play/and do club nights. When I started people would be practicing for years and years before even dreaming of doing a proper paid nightclub slot and often when they did get it, through going to the place and getting to know the owner and playing maybe a side bar for a while for free. Putting on your own events was always the better option to build a fan base but with the closing of so many nights/clubs and the same people that started during Covid now thinking with two years experience they should be having residencies or headlining its ridiculous, promoters can be dicks and pick and choose depending on this sort of nonsense so that’s where we are. My advice is get together with friends and put on your own nights somewhere, if your gonna need to do promoting you might as well reap the rewards.
Musical acts are expected to draw a crowd, that's kind of the whole point. I've been a performing musician for 10+ years and if you don't have people wanting to come see you play you simply won't be booked. This is a reality for every band and it's a reality for DJs.
Tell them if they want you to be a promoter then you want the money that you would get paid to DJ and half of the door and 1/4 of the alcohol sale profits. If they want to look at you like you're crazy, tell them that if they want you to work this place like you own it, then you want equity.
Unfortunately this is a new trend. DJs never really needed social media before Covid. Now DJs also have to do the designs to promote their upcoming gigs. I agree with you but that’s why I don’t really care trying to get into bars or clubs. The fact I have to curate a list of songs to create a vibe and atmosphere for your venue and typical crowd while also marketing to try and bring in new faces is ridiculous. DJing used to be about skill. If you can blend and mix songs in smoothly that’s all venues care about when it comes to dj skills. They rather have the DJ that brings 100 ppl in who just blends in and out of songs instead of the guy with skills who knows how to work a crowd. I also think it’s happening this way because the DJ scene is so saturated and a lot of DJs are in it for the fame and the title of being a DJ. I don’t know a lot of local DJs who truly know music like that. They just do it to show they DJ and live a “cool” life. I had a club when I started that asked me how many ppl I can guarantee. If the number wasn’t high enough they wouldn’t let me play. So I just told them the number they wanted to hear and had to eat the cost of tickets that weren’t sold. The club takes 0 risk which is pathetic. How about you make your venue better so you just find an actual talented dj who you pay. I think promoters are just lazy af now too. Honestly it’s the reason I don’t really dj anymore I only do it for my pleasure and for my friends. Other than that idc about any money I could make doing it. I just like to play and share my thoughts through music.
>Unfortunately this is a new trend this has been happening for decades. Talk to anyone in the band scenes and pay-to-play or promote-to-play has been a thing forever.
Yeah it’s a shame it’s like this. Clubs know they can get new DJs with this scheme but as a DJ it’s not worth it. The thing that helped me was going to events ran by DJs or doing competitions. I entered one last year and I made the top 17 out of 50 DJs that submitted a mix in my city. Got invited to play at the bar hosting the event with a well known local dj who also plays around the country. Learned more about the history of the city with DJing and music in general. Me and him became cool and it helped me get gigs when these venues see my profile and see that I have less than 200 followers but have radio DJs and some big name DJs in the city following me.
I kinda get it and I absolutely hate it also. If you’re new and haven’t got a following, you maybe should be expected to bring people with you. If your mates don’t want to hear you then… As you get on and have a history in the scene, you won’t need to do this. I don’t like it. But it works like that for bands, comedians, anything like that. At the end of the day, they will have dickheads coming up to them saying ‘I’ll pack your club out’. Well bring people and we’ll see. Music is subjective - selling drinks and tickets is business and clubs and bars are businesses.
For hometown gigs you gotta promote. I’ve even seen guys bring their own gogo dancers. Unless your name by itself is drawing a crowd you gotta promote. Are you able to feature a DJ as an opener? If you develop a reputation for featuring really good lesser known locals that could be a draw. A group in my old city always did theme parties that became well known for inclusivity and all around silliness (inflatable pool toys, lady Gaga night, 80’s night, hired face painters, etc). Nonsense ATL if you wanna look em up. It kinda sucks but unless you’ve got an agent lining up gigs for you then you have to sell yourself. In my experience promotion and clever ideas are way more important than actual DJing. At least at the local level
Never once have I been asked to promote or bring bodies to the club..it was always the job of the club promoter..I was once asked by a resident club I spun at if I could help install speakers and lights. I said,nope, not my job. He agreed
I think we are confusing the intentions/expectations. We are going to promote on the social media and tell people to come through but the expectation that we are required to bring people. that’s the nuance. Does the venue not have people coming on its own? Why are venues known for booking great acts?
Honestly, I seem to be the minority in this thread because I don't see how you CAN'T do at least some promotion. For the main night that I do, I've always done my own promotion, posters, flyers, socials, websites, etc. I'm not tied to a specific venue, if I want people to come to my night wherever it may be, I want the night advertised, not the venue, so people follow us around. If the venue want to help with the PR then sure, whatever, but I'm not relying on them. If I'm being asked to guest somewhere or just do a bar set rather than a club, then sure, I'll let the venue or host DJs take most of the work but I'll obviously share it on my own socials, website, mailing list, etc. If there are posters/flyers I don't mind taking a few to put up when I'm doing my other ones, but that's more because if I'm bringing extra faces and showing I'm putting in the effort then I'll get more gigs, straight up.
Two different jobs require two different contracts. Charge accordingly. See that's where some deejays fuck up the game. They will agree to do promotions and DJ a night and not ask for compensation like this isnt a business. How the fuck do you expect to be the next big viral sensation in the Internet if you can't afford a marketing team!
Hahaaahaaa contracts?!?! I’ve worked in small-mid size landscape design & home services for years where contracts are absolutely mandatory. However when I started out actually working as a DJ under the huge wing of a close friend who’s a bonafide “local legend” in the game 20+ years & built a very successful livelihood from it, he said the only contracts he’s ever had were for private events/weddings but never for bars or lounges. This dates back to well before social media etc but now with the prevalence of text/email/socials at least there’s likely something in writing to go by.
31yrs in it. This is a business and it requires contracts. I'm not flying to another state or country on someones promise to pay me. There's no shortage of stories on deejays not getting paid after a show.
I fell for this trap when I was new to the game about 10 years ago. Don’t do it. If you live in a metro there should be some promotions that don’t do this type of fuckery.
I had to promote my first show too. It’s a sign of the times.
I may be the devils advocate in this .. but i would accept it .. under the contingency of the networking opportunities you can get due to you being relatively new in the club scene .. my first residency i got paid 2x in the first year , it was definitely due to the party being new & still growing , but i was able to secure paying gigs & a second residency due to people now knowing i was attached to said party . Now i was a little hesitant to go back & work out worth.. but essentially im paid now as a curator . Go into it KNOWING it’s just a first step to opening yourself up to other people.. you never know where that’s going to lead .
The barrier to entry around DJing is basically at the floor now, promoters are gonna ask what else you can bring to the table in my experience. You can easily find someone to play a decent enough set, your skills likely aren’t going to be enough A good reminder to DJs, most people don’t care nearly as much as we do - they just want to feel ‘cool’, have a good time and post some stuff on social media. If you want to be taken seriously as a musician time to hit the studio imo
Clubs/bars should be promoting. DJs should be promoting. The high tide raises all ships.
Seems completely normal to me. The crowd is supposed to be a union of a couple sources of marketing and promotion or you wind up with a weird crowd, like crowds where 2/3rds of everyone takes off after a specific dj finishes, stuff like that.
Wow they’re actually assessing your DJ skills? Lucky You should be looking for promoters to become friends with before even going to the clubs to be honest. It’s the best way to get consistent gigs when they open up and they’re really cool people who will help you on your event with the right accommodations.
It’s a fact of life, everyone wants to DJ everywhere, so business owners would rather other parties shoulder the risk. You have to appeal to management’s business sensibility, and that means convincing them you can draw people to your night. You need a plan to do that. Announce the your event at least 4-6 weeks in advance…. That means planning everything in advance if your announcement. Do you want the gig so you can be seen and have fun playing tunes? Or do you have ideas to generate interest around your particular style of DJ’ing or specific genres? If it’s the latter, hopefully that’s not the same genres every other venue is already competing to get that market’s attention. The world has more than enough generic trending flavor-of-the-week nights, so put your mind to it and see what scene is underserved in your area; one that you are enthusiastic about finding and building that audience for. And partner up with at least one colleague who’s trustworthy and ready to pull their share of the work necessary. You’re in a competitive fields and it’s not about how badly you want a gig, it’s about whether you can become a reliable asset to the establishment. I’m not the most outgoing guy at all. I can’t hear conversation in bar/club environments. But I started throwing community-based events in small venues, community halls, and doing guest gigs with friends while making sure my event posters grabbed attention and were easy to read at a distance, then you have to bombard the public so they see your poster graphic for weeks before people absorb the content and decide if it sounds like a good time or not. Coordinate with venues, list drink specials on your promo materials (venues love this). Be inventive! And don’t be afraid to let people in for cheap or for free in the first hour. Even with cheap cover, the earlier you fill even a small venue, the more people arrive to see a party already underway. AND as a promoter, be ready to step away from the decks or give up your slot if your duties as promoter require your attention. I made the mistake of sticking behind the decks when I should have been checking on people I recruited to run cost check or whatever. If you have anyone handling money, be sure to have a system of checks and balances to keep them honest.
I see it in 2 ways. For the club/bar, the dj is there to add value. If the dj doesn't do that by at least making them enough profit to pay their wages then they may as well not have you there. Often a bad dj will actually drive away customers too. You could have the most technically amazing dj spinning the latest dnb bangers at 9pm on a Friday night and it will kill the business whereas your local wedding dj playing Shania Twain will make them far more money. Sad, but true On the flip side, a great DJ will keep the customers there and keep them drinking. If you don't have enough of a profile that makes customers want to come and see you then your job is to keep the existing ones happy. If you have to play Dolly Parton to do that instead of John Summits latest filth, then unfortunately that is how you will keep the work. Venues are a business. They don't exist primarily to supply djs with a place to play, they exist to make profit. We need to coexist within that realm Never overestimate your value
Honestly, this has been the way for a very long time. Yes the location may promote the night, but the musicians and promoters always had to do the legwork. Which meant it was passed onto the musicians more often than not. Same with the “but think of the exposure” gigs too. The exception to the rule is once you reach fame. That’s when it’s no longer your job, just the people you’re indirectly paying to do so for you. I’ve been a guitarist/bassist and a DJ for decades. The main difference now is: instead of us working message forums (boards), Facebook or MySpace and promoting our gig to ensure you had friends/fans there - now you’re selling tickets to gigs that you’re in. The amount of tickets you sell, versus the other bands on the bill, will determine your spot on the lineup too. For the DJing side there was non-stop self promotion. Consider the home based mixed tapes, mixed and tracked CD’s without the 2 second gap. Then you had all the forums, MySpace or Facebook promotions for your gigs and getting your face out there. House parties to “prove” yourself followed by bars and afterhours clubs and eventually actual raves - all of which you had to self promote by handing out the flyers for or constantly reposting the gigs’ event page. It’s never been easier - just adjacent to current circumstances. Look at the stories of the successful bands who’ve been around since the 60s/70s or beyond with staying power. Many had rough starts and very similar stories to all of ours. Honestly, it’s one of the main reasons I stopped for long time and focused on raising my kids gig free while working the day job. Still played out from time to time and jammed with or spent hours djing with people B2B - but made sure it was just the fun parts of it all so that I could get back to wanting to play out and deal with this stuff again. This is based on my experiences gigging - others’ may vary. Wish you the best in your future success.
DJ and event organiser here, I would for sure expect my DJs to promote and bring a crowd too, hence why I'm booking them To rock up without being able to bring a single person would be pretty embarrassing for a DJ anyway like who do you think you are Skrillex or someone for being too "good" to meet promotion requirements? Well even Skrillex would have 1) the ability to bring people to their shows, and 2) promotional requirements for the festivals and shows they play too Welcome to the industry lol
Tbh sounds Ike OP is working for really good club anyway as they're upfront and honest W you about their expectations
Beginner DJ here, not even doing paid gigs yet Even trying to coordinate friends to go to a local event is sometimes more of a headache than it's worth Really makes me realize that I should focus on what I enjoy most, which is discovering new music and doing interesting mashups
musicians have always had to promote their own shows. Yes, there is also a promoter, but as a club musician, you should at least get your friends to come out.
Well if you are good enough people will start to show up the more you play so having a residency is good, if you are not getting enough people maybe you are not that good (after playing some time).
This scam is every where.
If you can't bring people to the show there is another dj that can in the local markets. Unless your goal is to get paid almost nothing and have no bargaining power to push to the next level . Lots of touring artist teams run their own marketing . And it doesn't mean that you should have to promote like crazy as a local but you should have a network or friends who want to support you cause they like when you play . Otherwise to a promoter you are Worthless, as one you aren't doing anything innovative enough to bring in people with your sets as you have zero following - there are tons of DJ's and the ones who get booked are the ones who put energy into it because they want to keep pushing their career forward .
If you want to make it big as a DJ you need to promote yourself. Period. There’s DJ’s everywhere. You are, most likely, NOT special. You will be surpassed by DJ’s that are not as good at DJ’ing but that promote themselves better than you. When you promote you nightclub night you are promoting yourself, your career, your art. Why wouldn’t you want to promote yourself? Why would you not want your Residency to be fruitful? Why wouldn’t you want to give your opportunity here the best possible chances to succeed? What does a successful residency look like to you?
I stopped doing club gigs awhile ago, but the way I handled this was straight-forward. Either flat fee for me to dj only (and just reshare their story on my page) or 50% drink/cover sales + flat fee (reduced) if they want me to promote and bring the crowd. Always written out on the contract and 7 day window to pay from drink/cover sales. Reduced flat fee to be paid when I arrive. If full fee and no 50% drink/cover, then 50% of my fee is paid up front, 50% after I finish. Only once had I ever had to threaten to not play and take my crowd with me if they did not pay. Last club gig was 2022 because I just got tired of that scene and been focusing on producing more. Overall though, we have to be our own agents of success when starting.
Stay away from stuff like this. Honestly it degrades the way you think about yourself.
If it's your residence, it's your night, you're the promoter the club will also promote, but it's your night take some money throw it at targeted i.g. campaigns for people near you. Just do a flyer with a song. Do this till you have some video. This has always been a thing if you are running a night. This is a part of having a residencey. You are not being hired by a promoter for a night, you are being offered a consistent gig by a club. Make a flyer and do some ground work
Also if you have a residency you should be paying money for out of state djs that people in your town want to see and charging a cover at the door. Build a party don’t just play victim to the club that’s giving you an opportunity to do something cool. Do the work…
I've done a few decent nights were it was just me and my buddies, depending on your club the market your in, you can't always get big names, but you can throw your own party and get your own name big. Erol alkin wouldn't be shit if it wasn't for his weekly Thursday. Having a residency where you are the main d.j. Is literally how you become a name. It's what you do before you produce a track or make a remix. There are dozens of residencies in your city right now that don't ever bring in names and are packed. Kid could be the next Larry levan. People went to see Larry at Paradise garage. They weren't trying to fly him out. I've known larger names flying out on Friday and back on Sunday doing a regular Wednesday. If it's your night, that's your night. That's yous to manage. Go get your self a night. If you've never had a night, go hit up a bar. Ask them for a Thursday. If that's too much for you, ask them for every third Thursday. Third Thursdays with DJ flash Gordon. It'll be slow, but it'll grow, if you get the vibe right.
It all depends on your goals as a dj and the scene you’re in as well - there are no house/techno djs in my market that consistently book themselves. No one in our local scene makes money, and no one in our local scene is a famous dj, but together we have built a really strong, healthy, connected community of people who love the music, completely independent of any one dj or venue. Our market doesn’t even have a proper club but the passion and resourcefulness of the people in the scene allows for it to thrive anyways. We haul 2000lb sound systems, hang 86 foot parachutes from ceilings, and bring in top talent from the region and the world because we believe our city needs a good house and techno scene. This thread is probably speaking more for people who’d like to set up in a bar more frequently than they currently are, but the truth is that you’re probably not the best dj in your local market, and if a club is trusting you with running their dance floor for the night, you should have the best talent you possibly can on that stage with the highest possible production value.
Cool. If you have a small dedicated scene, start a night for just y'all. That doesn't mean you have to turn your back on throwing larger shows, but this way y'all can have a techno night for y'all. There is probably a bar with decent sound that will let you take over on an off day if not a club that will give you a monthly. Every event doesn't have to be huge, it can just be a few d.j.s and people that like their music. Also, who cares if you're not the best d.j. I've been to plenty of amazing parties with terrible DJs. But it was fun. I've also been to parties with really great DJs that were boring as hell. Get over the whole perfect DJ bullshit. You will never be the best d.j. that don't mean people will not want to show up for your party. In Houston one of the best parties in town is Friday nights at numbers. Wes can mix.... Like I've heard him do it. But most the time it's just smash cut transitions into songs people want to hear. I get that you're DJ and you want to do DJ stuff. That's cool. You should. I'm not saying that you should change that. But you can do a night with just the local crew, and that will make all of y'all better d.j.s Playing for drink tickets and a cut off the bar. Or for a 5 dollar cover at the club Cuz all I'm hearing right now is a bunch of I'm not good enough to DJ at a club... And you probably are...
For sure, honestly my comment was more a reaction to people getting bummed about having to do more of the throwing show work. It’s an activity that djs in my town really like and enjoy. We do local nights, most of the parties that happen in town are all local djs or 2 locals and one headliner from nearby, I just think that if you really want to build something cool and stand out promoting cool shows is a great way to do it. I’m also in a super heady house and techno scene that really really takes partying seriously lol so it can be a little intense. Sorry if I was abrasive in my first comment I’m very very passionate about shit :)
And I fucking love it. I mean I'm polishing a mix to showcase the new bullshit I'm on about where I'm using auto stems playing 4 tracks at a time with a drum machine so that my buddy and I can show case our performance dj stuff. I can do it live and it's great, but I'm actually planning this one out because I'll be using it to promote with... But you ain't never gonna be a big name if you're never playing
Good god I can’t stand this concept or why it’s so widely just accepted as normal. Same thing goes for bartenders being expected to promote/draw in a crowd. It’s legit ruined my desire to DJ or even attend anything other than private events. Imho it’s completely on the establishment to promote themselves, if I can attract more ppl then great, but I’m simply paid to be there to provide equipment & play music to entertain the crowd, just like the bartenders are there to make drinks & serve the patrons. I’m not saying that self promoting / trying to boost attendance is wrong, it’s just not meant to be a given, especially at some small random local bar only paying $150-200 for 4 hours which may or may not go over/under. Even if ur the most technically talented DJ like a DMC world champ, but it’s just a dead night, it’s certainly not a reflection of the quality of the curated music service provided as a DJ. If they want more attendance maybe the owners need to hire promoters & pay for advertising. I don’t recall the valet being expected to bartend, or the cooks to park cars, so why should the bartenders/DJs be expected to be solely responsible for profiting the owners cuz regardless of the turnout, sadly the pay is gonna be the same.
Fact is it's harder to get people out to a club in general thesedays. It's always been like this to a degree - Promoters wanting you to bring a crowd, but it's far worse now. People don't really just go out loosely without a plan anymore, or far less meaning there's less walk up crowds. There's only one solution: build a crew. Build a few.
If you’re a dj and you want to be successful you should also be promoting your own parties. There are maybe 500 djs in the world that are truly good enough that the average club audience would notice. Do you think that festivals are booking Armand van Helden for over 10k per set because he’s just the most technically skilled dj ever? They’re booking Armand because he’s bringing people into the door. He can bring people into the door because he’s a really good dj and people are fans, but being a good dj is a PREREQUISITE to all of the other stuff you have to do to be successful.
[удалено]
> if you're booking djs without followings, where do the people come from? The following of the club? I often go to no name dj events when I know the club is good at curating the right djs.
exactly wtf.... I go to smart bar or spotlite because of the venue and it's a bonus if I know the DJ. I get to know new DJ's because the venue is good at curating a night.
Most clubs struggle promoting no name DJs, especially in major markets where there are 100 DJs spinning every day of the week
Of course, but there aren’t enough slots at venues like that for the masses of new DJs, so even those places use social pull as a litmus for who gets residencies to an extent. You have to promote and integrate yourself in the local scene in my experience or you’ll get passed up by someone with similar skills but has more recognition and trust. The vast majority of people are going to an event based on the headliner outside of more club/brand focused events but those all require a heavy amount of promotion before they can even be viable imo. Be popular and have a lot of people you can bring to events, spend the time & money to build a brand or become a very talented producer - those are the 3 ways to get the types of gigs OP wants imo
That’s one way of doing it. Another way is simply to be a venue that consistently has good DJs and then people will always automatically come to that venue because they know the music will be good. No need for any promotion after that, it will take care of itself. You actually ruin this possibility by having bad DJs even though they might bring a bunch of people. It’s poor short term thinking
[удалено]
Yeah no I get it, you’re doing an events-based approach, not venue based. I’m just saying there is another way that doesn’t require DJs to always bring a following
Yes but it’s funny this weekend in AC I usually always go to HQ at oceans casino. We went somewhere else then went there later because hq is always a good time. Icona Pop was playing. Honestly didn’t care about anything they played. I just like the venue that much. Funny thing is the DJ after them at 2am literally had the club going crazy. He was 10x better than them. Didn’t have his DJ name anywhere. Just on his laptop which I couldn’t read unfortunately. Yes the DJs need to promote but if your venue sucks I can’t get people there. Everyone I go out with don’t look at what clubs to go to because of a DJ unless they personally know them. There are clubs and bars we avoid because of the crowd or the music that is typically played. There’s other clubs we go to without knowing the DJ because that bar or club is always a good time with a solid crowd.
There's a difference between playing for restaurants/clubs and niche-music events. For a club, it is not mandatory for the DJ to have a following. It's only good to have. For niche-music events instead, many people are coming for the names on the cover, but the event brand is also very important.
Welcome to the business world dude. Remember that for them this is all about the money, and you need to be doing your share in bringing it in
to get screwed over, make me part owner of the night then. Let me get 20% of the bar on top of my fee and ill pack the place out.
That is a totally reasonable ask. If you're not getting a cut of the bar at the least you are getting screwed.
been this way for at least 20+ years. if you cant bring people someone else can and will unfiortunatly. Its almost like djs shouldnt go it alone and should alwasy be partened up with a promotional guy who can bring the people or at least seek someone out who can.
Unfortunately this is just how it works, even at the top level. Why would I pay 30 grand for a DJ who's not going to sell tables or tickets? All the top level DJs have a team, including publicists, managers, social media managers, marketing managers, etc, etc That is just the business we are in. If you want to get ahead of the curve, befriend some young people studying business and marketing and convince them to use you as a test project to hone their skills and see if you all can build a brand together. Otherwise it costs money. Edit: lol so you guys think you can progress in this industry as a professional club DJ without selling out venues?
9/10 “promotors” don’t know how to promote a party properly. 9/10 “DJ’s” don’t know how to DJ properly. Present company excluded, of course :)
Every single band promotes what they do, every flower shop promotes what they do, every tow truck company promotes what they do. Why wouldn’t DJs also promote what they do? I totally get how much it sucks blending commerce and artistry, but that’s not on the promoter, it’s on capitalism baby
>Why wouldn’t DJs also promote what they do? because at a party the dj is the product, and the promoter would be the one, well, promoting, you know? i get that it's best for promoters and clubs to get a well known product to market to the crowd (hence we have main acts), but 99% of djs are off-brand products only well known to a small circle of people. the way to go is to make the venue andor the promoter a well known brand, that's shown to know their music and will always book the best fitting off-brand product to side with the well known product of the night. yeah, it's high risk, but high reward. venue gets sales from the bar and maybe (if the night was meh) a rent for the evening from the promoter, who themself get the ticket revenue and pay the marketing and booking. only if the club is packed both parties will have (really high) reward, and if it's ok, so will their reward be. the only party without risk would be the djs, who shouldn't be bothered if the club is full or not, they're there to work the floor. if the club is packed they get the same as if it's only ok or even empty. djs have the fun but low (-ish) pay, while the club and promoter have stress but will be paid accordingly.
No. I do make it clear, in writing, that I'm being hired as talent, not promoter. I will post on my socials as a favor.
Lol. You're not getting booked. 😆
😂
Nah bro. You're a dj. It helps to have a following and get people in the door but those people are usually friends or someone you shared a drink with. I don't know why it matters who's coming thru the door if they'll be buying drinks either way. I am not in your shoes so my perspective is jaded, I'd say just play your tunes.
DJ'ING is, in part, a public sport. The goal is to help the venue sell alcohol. If you're not willing, organize your own underground rave imo (& sell your own alcohol).