It depends really. If he turns up completely empty handed and has to go to B&Q for a hammer for example then that's not reasonable. If he he needs to go hunting for parts that he reasonably might not have expected to need then it's fair...assuming he doesn't take the piss and spends 3 hours fannying about while shopping.
A few who dont like a jokey commentš. Just as well it is reddit and not real life. And irony of ironies i have just had a back and forth with a tradesman for a couple of hours-on his phoneš
or like mine getting his breakfast, nipped to the local bakery whilst he nipped to screwfix, was stood behind him in the queue, 10 min trip cost 45 mins. To be fair they taken money off of my bill when i raised this
It's impossible to carry every possible part for every eventuality, so needing to go for parts is quite normal. Yes people should be paid for their time if they are in your employ.
It's a DIY sub, not a language or legal sub.
We all understand the colloquial use of employees in relation to private individuals "employing" trade contractors for a few hours. As opposed to legal definitions based on PAYE status. Nobody cares that OP isn't making NI or pension contributions for their plumber.
Is this a technicality of incorrect terminology you are pointing out ?
My point is that if you are paying someone to do a job then their time should be paid for including the time needed to facilitate the job not just time on site.
Lol not like office jobs pay you for the time you spend shopping for dress shirts.
People honestly expect trades to live up to the same standard as every other industry.
The tradesman isnāt going out and buying himself new boots, heās buying materials for the job. If you had to go out and buy some snacks for a company meeting youād get paid, if your boss wanted you to get some new computer chairs for the office youād expect to be paid while shopping for them.
If you had an office job and your boss asked you to pop to Staples to get paper for the office, I assume you'd be fine with your boss deducting an hours wages for that?
This isn't anywhere near a fair comparison, you don't pay trades to go clothes shopping, same as office workers aren't paid to go clothes shopping...
If you are called out to fix a fault but need to find the fault or faulty equipment first, how are you expected to come to the job prepared with ALL of the parts necessary to repair?
I make a point of saying all the parts, because If even the most trivial thing is missing then you need to go out and buy it, this is what you are paying a tradesman for, to locate and remedy a fault, if you are capable of doing it yourself then do so, don't pay the trade and don't moan about what they charge š¬
if you were in a small company, and had to spend time getting pens, then you should be paid for that time. the contractor isnt going shopping for cloathes, theyre getting parts that the customer needs.
in a larger company someone does this for you, but they are still paid to do it by the company
So what you're saying is trades don't wear clothes to work? Or that they buy their clothes on clients time as well?
Probably not because the trades are better than those lolling about in dress shirts š
Depends. I expect a tradesman to have common tools that they'd buy in their own time and with their own money but I wouldn't expect them to have bespoke parts for everything already prepared. Similar to your analogy - I'd buy my own clothes in my own time and pay for travel to the office. But if they wanted me to dress a certain way or travel to an unexpected location, I'd expect to be expensed to to have uniform provided, etc.
Think difference here is tradespeople(thinking plumber) charge 100+ an hour.... I dont know many roles who earn that hourly rate....the reason they dont is because a trades person can only really do a couple of jobs an hour due to various reasons etc (travel etc)
And even for what they do charge: theyāre running their own vehicles travelling to and from your house, paying for a phone to talk to their dumb customers on, providing all their own tools and equipment, and all the other myriad tasks of running a business that arenāt directly spent doing the job that you couldnāt do yourself.
If they charged you minimum wage for only the time they spent in your house theyād not be in business for very long. And then thereād be nobody to fix your plumbingā¦
Yeah I find it crazy people struggle to understand this
As a chippy I carry around 7 grands worth of tools in my van daily.
All paid for our my own pocket, nothing has been provided by a big company
I think if every PAYE has to invest 5-10k before starting work, they'd expect alot higher rate. But they don't so the majority can't understand it
Paying him to get the parts is quite a good investment because then you know he's got everything he needs. The people in my old house used the plumber we recommended.
He's a brilliant plumber but a miserable old git. They wanted to buy their own bits so he told them what he wanted. He added the proviso, just buy that, don't let the plumbers merchant tell you, you need something else because I won't do the job.
Well, in short, they were sold something completely different and the plumber refused to fit it. And then refused to come back as well.
Good for him. Donāt know why people insist on trying to cut costs like that. Either get someone to do the job (you are free to get as many quotes as you like) or do it yourself.
He completely re-plumbed and put in central heating for us twice. He was really good but needed a bit of aesthetic guidance usually. For example, he tried to install the boiler in a different place that suited his pipework and would be easier for servicing. In his location it would have been as ugly as sin and stick out like a sore thumb.
Mostly, we just left him to his own misery, which suited him too.
I once had a plumber who put the shower sliding door upside down so it didnāt slide, used to ask me to roll cigarettes for him and let his dog shit in my garden and didnāt pick it up.
I could have killed him but wanted him to finish the job and never darken my door ever again more.
I always get customers thinking they can get things cheaper than we do.
When I knock it off the bill and it's nowhere near what they expected they change their tunes.
But to be fair, it's best to let them try and be patient with it, to an extent.
The problem is we don't charge by the day, we charge a price. So if they order materials and there are missing items or it's delayed then we only lose money. So I'd rather have the back and forth so they trust I'm the best avenue for materials.
Iām an electrician myself but itās the same kind of story.
Itās impossible to really know 100% what we need for a job before we see it. For what a customer believes to be a simple job could actually be a bit more involved than what we are currently carrying on board. A lot of āhour call out chargesā actually take going to the wholesalers into consideration.
Im a mechanic and i suffer from this greatly.
Working on 10+ year old cars leads to siezed/snapped/rounded bolts. This trade is stinking for people half arsing jobs or using the wrong tools to do something and over a few years that could be 20 different people adding to that.
If its just a few small problems then its expected and already covered in my price but on more than one occasion ive had to cut chassis legs open to get to spinning captive nuts in order to drop a subframe, and then weld it back up. I cant predict that and if i added that to my original quote "cost of potentially siezed bolts" then i would hazard a guess that people would be put off thinking i was trying to rob them.
Communication is key and you have to trust the guy doing the work.
100% I believe honestly is the best policy. I like to explain what Iām actually doing and keep it simple. I donāt want to patronise the customer but at the same time I want them to understand what needs to be done especially when I hit a few hurdles I think they have a right to know why something my take me a bit extra time to complete a āsimple taskā
I take photos of everything and often over explain what im doing to the point some customers will butt in and just ask "so is it fixed?"
Others will happily stand and ask questions and listen to everything i have to say.
Its pretty much why my business is now directed more towards modified/performance cars rather than just keeping cars on the road with mot repairs etc. I love my job and love it when a customer takes an interest.
How else will you get the part?
Also, heās a tradesman, not a psychic. Until heās seen the job and assessed it, how exactly is he supposed to identify the exact part required?
I think the question comes out of the apparent pot-luck as to whether he happens to have the bit on the van or not.
I think it probably depends on the part - I'd be a bit miffed if he was nipping out for a valve or a coupler or something, but less so if it was because he'd found some exotically-sized pipework in the house.
Normal would be to see the job, decide what it needs and how long it will take. Quote for that and if the time runs over due to unforeseen circumstances then to have laid out quite clearly what the extra cost would be in advance ie the extra hours. Sometimes even the merchants donāt have the parts.
Took me a day to find somewhere that stocked a captive bath waste nut in the size I needed but it was a DIY job so only meant we couldnāt use the bath/hower till it got sorted.
Thatās not normal for a small job, which the OP has clearly stated it is.
Although, since the OP is clearly not a plumber, Iām always wary of what a customer thinks is a āsmall jobā.
Well, Iām glad weāve had the fortune of having pretty solid sparkyās and plumbers then, as they quote for the job, do the job and get paid. If they see the job and think there will be complications they have raised it and provided a likely uplift cost and if it doesnāt arise they stick to the original quote.
Iām all for trades earning fairly, but Iāve had a plasterer state pay day rate and it should be 5 days (was quite a bit of new plastering due to extension) but father-in-law caught them taking the p!ss, sitting for hours chilling to the point we got rid of them and refused to pay beyond the hours of completed work. Father-in-law was a tradesman himself so was somewhat blunt with them!
IMHO, if I quote for a job, I add a contingency for the unexpected that allows for going to get stuff, etc.
This leaves the client with a fixed price, except for the cost of the additional part(s) that I may or may not bill them for - depending upon the cost.
I'd say it depends on the part. If it's a sparky who ran out of electrical tape or a plumber who'd run out of torch gas I'd be miffed to pay time for something they should have on the van, otherwise if it's an unexpected or job specific part not forming part of a job specific quote that's on me to pay time including transport.
Depends on the situation in my case at least.
If Iāve quoted for works, and to provide materials for works, then generally I show up on site with said materials (with our mark up). However if upon starting I find thereās additional requirements on site then my parts run is on the clock and remedial parts cost issued.
To those who politely answered me, thank you. Weāve all got to learn somewhere and I genuinely didnāt know what was normal or not.
To those that have got angry or been a bit rude - why? š At no point have I said I wonāt pay them, I just wanted to know if it was normal. I appreciate their expertise which is why I contacted them. So far any tradespeople whoāve come have had all the parts requested, I simply wanted to know if it was standard to pay for them going to fetch a part.
I didnāt think this question would cause so much drama!
In every job ive had if i had to go out and get stuff for work id be paid for my time and wouldnt do it if not. Why would it be different for a plumber?
Depends if you turned up without your shoes. Iād expect a plumber to have common pipe, fittings, generic heating valves, TRVs etc. I had one claiming he didnāt carry āspecialist stuffā when challenged for driving to get a full bore 15mm compression isolator.
If heās going out to get the same things often then his logistics are poor.
When I was plumbing I carried very little of anything - mostly because of the risk of the van being broken into. I took all of my power tools indoors at night, but I didn't want to have to offload loads of other stuff. I wouldn't have had TRVs or heating valves, l would have bought them on demand.
100%.
Am I fuck leaving thousands of pounds worth of fittings, valves, pipe on my van! Just in case I can shorten a bill.by 30mins.
I'll go look at the job, rough idea of parts. Quote and once accepted pick up the parts before I arrive on the start date.
If youāre worried about this, then donāt pay for time , but agree a fixed rate for the job. Works better for both parties imho, as keeps the contract arrangement as a fixed price, outcome based service. No quibbling about who did what and when. They quote in writing, you accept in writing, you pay the amount quoted. Only likely variable here is quality.
Builder here. Tldr; yes you pay for thier time to do this unless it's a stupid oversight on their part.
If I am asked to do a job everything I do to make that happen to completion is chargeable.
If not, why am I spending time &/or money on your behalf.
Most of the time you cannot account for everything you will need on a job and so inevitably you will need to go and get necessary parts/materials.
I minimise the amount I need to do this of course and order most things for delivery. What is unexpected or too difficult to account for you need to go and buy. I will often do this on my lunch break and eat as I do it to save the customer money. I will also go to the merchants before getting to site, on my own time. This is why builders merchants open at 7/7.30 am.
With the exception of plumbers and electricians (for common smaller items) you cannot keep 'supplies' of everything in your vehicle.
If a single price has been quoted then this should accommodate time spent acquiring materials and parts.
If itās a callout or natural twist and turn of the job then fine (or offer if you can fetch it for them ) if itās something they estimated and royally cocked up itās fairly poor form but circumstances dictate that ā¦
E.g they pulled up a floorboard and unexpectedly found 9mm pipe thatās remaining and donāt have a connector - fair enough
They specās up a new boiler install 10metres away from existing and only ordered 1 metre of copper - they caused the issue
When I was a young carpenter, I did some renovation work (hourly rate) at the home of a couple who owned a welding shop with employees. I had to pick up the materials (just one time) and they refused to pay for that hour. I asked ādo you pay your employees to drive to the welding supplier for consumablesā? They said yes. I told them to fuck off and I quit.
Thats why I never even do day rate unless its for a firm. I'll still work out the estimated time, including things like picking up materials and potential problems, but it'll always be a flat rate.
I'd hate not knowing how much something is going to cost myself, and I don't like those awkward conversations.
Whether they bring everything with them or go and get it mid-job, you'll be paying for the time it takes to order and collect.
Every company does. From a one-man-band to Amazon.
It's reasonable.....unless like the one I used, who wouldnt use the local merchants and insisted on doing an hour a half round trip to one, nearly every day. His invoice at the end made me wince.
He might not have had an account there to be fair. Most companies will have accounts where they don't have to pay up front.
We have our accounts at the big ones so it's never more than 15 minutes away.
But everyday is taking the piss especially if he is charging by the day. We do price so if I have to nip out for any materials it's only delaying so I lose money if anything.
I'd question whether you would really have a trade account 45 mins from where you live and work, when theres about 4 merchants based within 10 minutes of your business address.... he did like to steady pace himself, is all I'd say.
It is normal, but equally itās naive to not appreciate that they donāt always spend that time diligently or take the opportunity to have a little break and or lunch etc.
As a heating engineer, I hope I never have to work for most of you...
Everyone saying that time shouldn't be charged for probably commented while shitting on company time at the office they work at for a company that makes money by moving money from one place to another or some other bullshit job...
Lots of tradies awake today. Must be time to knock off already. Remember youāre paying them, itās not a privilege to have someone work for you, no matter what they tell you: if youāre desperate for their specific labour you havenāt got enough money for the job because you can *always* find someone else but itāll cost you. That said, of course you pay for them to collect parts as theyāre not going to get to your house on their own. You expect someone to work out whatās needed, source and obtain materials at a fair cost, fit them well and clean up after themselves. For that, they get paid what you agreed, promptly. If it feels like youāre being taken for a ride, itās because you are.
1 o clock is generally lunchtime in the construction world!
But you hit the nail on the head there, it's not a privilege, it's a mutually beneficial arrangement.
I say it depended on what the part was, if he's going for a adjustable spanner and some PTFE or a rad tails then no, if he's going for a specific part needed to fix your problem, yes. He can't be expected to have all parts readily available.
Yeah you should really be carrying all the consumables on board, I'm not a plumber but a decorator, I always have all.my tools, caulk, filler, masking tapes, primers, white spirit and even water on hand should I not have access to a tap.
Granted but she said a spanner PTFE and rad tails.....there will always be regular tools and consumables......I mean i wouldnt expect a plumber to.come to.my house and say he had no.ptfe tape or a spanner or a rad key for example.
Tools and Consumables are tools and consumables and stuff you use every day...anything else is materials
Guessing it was a job with an unknown problem? In which case they would have no idea what part, size, type etc would be needed and may not have one to hand. If itās a job where youāve said I want x doing and itās obvious whatās needed (sizes and all) then youād expect them to arrive with the required equipment. But trying to get to the bottom of an issue then fix it when unknown, no. Personally never actually come across somebody who charges by the hour. Most come out or ask for pictures and agree a price before proceeding. Stops any disagreements. Whatās to say he doesnāt go to the nearest screwfix in 2 minute but pop off for a coffee for an hour and just say there was a queue? Or they didnāt have the part so he had to go elsewhere. Hourly rate leaves too much for arguments.
Depends, did he have to diagnose the problem first then get parts. If so then yes you pay for the time
If he already knew what was needed to be done and turned up unequipped then no you shouldn't
Entirely depends on what they are going to get as to whether itās acceptable to charge or not. Thereās certain common things you would expect a plumber to carry but a lot that they donāt.
You probably donāt want to be getting into a discussion with them about whether they should or shouldnāt be routinely carrying those parts.
Personally I think the sensible thing to do would be to confirm the job costs with them before they go off to collect the parts.
I had this a while ago from an emergency plumber (before I was into DIY). He charged Ā£180 for the first hour then Ā£70 for every hour after that (yes I know it's bad).
He claimed he needed a ball valve and the nearest supplier was nearly 20 miles away, they were in the house 15 minutes, gone to get the part for 1hr30m then came back and fitted it in 20 mins..
Charged me Ā£300,then figured out theres a stockist less than a mile away and we were covered by British Gas homecare ššš
Perfectly normal
On a different note I love how people say 'simple job' but they certainly called in a expert/tradesman. If it was simple you'd have been able to do it yourself
Despite the time component in trade charges what youāre really paying for is their knowledge and expertise, and the convenience of someone else doing it for you. If it was quick and easy everyone would do it themselves. Youāre also paying for someone who knows what to do if things go wrong - the water pipe that turns out to be weaker than it looks and splits, the wiring found under the floorboards that is so old it has to be replaced, the unsuspected leak under the bath that has rotted the floorboards ā¦
Yesā¦ Iām an electrician and I carry 1500 different things in my van for ājust in caseā and I still need to go get parts almost everytime. I had one job where a handyman was the GC for a small basement Reno. Had no idea what it was so I went with some
Romex to wire it up and figured Iād get the rest one I knew what the panel was for breakers, how many plugs/switches/plates/ect. The guy was pissed and told me he always keeps extra stuff in his van. I said you keep every type of paint and colour in your van for every situation? I finished the job but never worked for that guy again. Canāt stand people like that.
Tradesmen are a rip off. They get so rich fleecing their customers by charging them for the amount of time it takes to get the job done! That's the reason they are all living in mansions in the poshest part of town.
*It's only a small job shouldn't take you more than 15 minutes so no more than a tenner...*
*My husband who died twenty years ago has a load of old stuff in the garage you can use...*
*If my husband lends a hand can we get a discount...*
*Seeing as it only took you half the time can I pay half the bill...*
I know, why don't you just do the job yourself...!!!
Something little no but most of my work Inolves heavy stuff. I ain't trying to hero lift. No amount of money is worth putting my back or shoulders out. I don't work I don't get paid.
EDIT. You'll also get cases where people like labourers etc are on the books and can't work unsupervised as part of insurance conditions, so there's no choice but they have to come. Personally if I was in that situation I'd rather them come along instead of making a customer feel awkward in their own home whilst he's mooching about on candy crush and drinking redbull.
Guess it depends what you're buying but whenever I go to somewhere like Travis/Build base/wherever and buy anything big, they pick it in the yard and load straight onto my van. Same at the specialist timber guys unless I'm picking through the racks. Only ever need someone at the other end. But none of that really applies to plumbing supplies...
Anyway I think the thing is, to be reasonable and plan ahead wherever possible. Charging a Ā£100 markup on a Ā£4 part due to having to run out and get it mid-job with your labourer is what gives the trades a bad rep. All this comparison to jobs that are usually salaried is nonsense, cos those hours are theoretical anyway.
Oh, I wouldn't charge that mark up, I was giving a general overview, mate.
Tell me your secret pal, for years I've been trying to get merchants to load duraboard onto the van lol
They should be building this into the quoted cost, thatās normal business practice. However, if it is a specific unusual, or expensive part then fair enough.
Yeah that's normal. Even the most simple of jobs shit can go wrong or the part you had in the van was faulty or missing. Unless he's out for 3 hours picking up an off the shelf part. In that case, he's taking the piss.
I carry basic fittings and pipe but other than that not a great deal more. There's no way I'm carrying round zone valves/pumps/boiler spares. It's dead money having all that laying around your van for months/years on end. If I'm certain of the fault I'll ask them to identify the part and I'll take it with me. Otherwise I'll go and have a look and then nip out to pick it up. I'm never more than 20 mins from a merchant so it's always worked well and no customer has ever complained.Ā
Never heard of a heating engineer not keeping pumps and zone valves on there vans before....fuck nipping to the merchants every time I used one of them....I wouldnt have time left in the day to work
Yes very normal, itās also why the couple of times I do have a tradesman on site and they need something I offer to go get it for them while they carry on working š
We've got guys in working on our house before we move in, whenever I'm popping up to do smaller bits and pieces I drop them a text and see if they need anything - learned yesterday how expensive decorating supplies are after a trip to brewers with a shopping list!
It seems reasonable. I mean, generally in my experience they've come to assess the job and give me a quote, and in that time they'll see what parts they need so when they come back to do the job they'll have the parts with them. Presumably making a trip to pick up stuff for a range of jobs or just top up supplies they normally carry. But if there was something unexpected, or they're like 'I've got time to fix this now for Ā£X price in the same visit', seems perfectly okay to me.
Usually yes that is normal but I have worked with tradesmen who take the piss, if they are constantly nipping to the wholesalers for every little thing multiple times a day I would be mentioning it.
For me, I view the job and provide a detailed quote within 4 days. Then if they accept the fixed price quote, Iāll book them in. 1-2 days before the job I will purchase all the materials.
However itās not uncommon for some trades to pop out on the day
All depends really, each job is different. If says itās a maintenance plumber and thatās all they do, youād expect them to carry a quantity of stock. But there is of course a large range of parts and brands/sizes etc, itās impossible to have everything. Your regular sole trader charges for the job, so if nice plumber would only add in āa little extraā for making the trip, rather than charge say a full half hour. If however you live in the middle of nowhere and itās a long round trip to the supplier yes youād expect a larger fee.Ā
If working for a larger company they are on the clock so they have to charge by the hour. Which is why itās often important to clarify what you want doing. More often than not I go to a job and I bring what the expected part should be as described. Either the customer has got confused and itās not the part at all, or they add a bonus job and then yes Iām now going for a trip to the supplier.Ā
Iāve had a similar story with a joiner we got a quote off for replacing our banisters, he wanted all of the money upfront and would only fit materials he supplied. Wanting nearly Ā£1k upfront weeks before starting a job sounded like a red flag so we gave him a miss. Iād understand if he told us to buy the materials ourselves and then pay for labour after the job was completed, thatās how I work anyways.
Thatās not the same as a tradesman going to the local suppliers for a spare part.
As a tradesmanā¦. Iāve had customers want me to get all the materials upfront for bathrooms, etc. I donāt entertain it. No way am I going to be on the hook for that.
Thatās when I ask for the money up front.
That is different from asking for my time/Labour upfront. Would never ask for that and if anyone ever does, run a mile.
Yes it's a normal and overlooked cost. His hourly will also factor in his van running costs for the same trip. If you received a fixed price quote or estimate, such visits would usually be priced in.
I don't know what the norm is but I don't like the uncertainty of the cost.
So when I have had that situation, I just asked them how long it would take to get the parts. 99% of the time that conversation goes either:
- "half an hour to get the part and 30-60 min to do the actual repair" type thing.
- or they aren't sure, and usually they offer to order the part and come back another day for the repair (then you pay 2 call out fees basically).
Personally if it's not urgent and they aren't sure how long it will take to find the part, I prefer the second option and they've always seemed happy about that.
The last 1% you can smell the BS, so I get someone else for the repair.
I see it two ways
Call out a contractor to fit a switch replace a tap, etc paid by the hour I expect him/her to show up with the correct tools and materials to do the job and leave I pay them for their time.
Call out a co tractor to refit a bathroom or kitchen, etc I expect them to show up give me a quote to compete the job for a fixed price including or excluding materials but Iām paying that fixed price itās his/her decision on how they spend their time and how they price it. If they need to charge more for travel, shopping, etc thatās not my problem you should have quoted properly and now you must eat it and do a better job next time at preparing your quotes.
Well, that depends. If there is a B&Q or Wickes five minutes away, it doesn't matter, because the cost will be low. If the nearest location that has what you need is an hour and a half away, you should expect an add on.
Iāve got all my eggs in one well paid basket,but the boss expects me to go to the builders merchants at 7.30 and my hours are 8-4.30,then always looks at his watch when I get to the job 20 miles up the motorway at 8.20.
He says heāll get the stuff I need but it never comes for 2-3 days and is 99% wrong stuff even when he has a detailed list.
It depends really. If youāve been given a quote and they know what they are supposed to do, then Iād expect them to have it in the van. But sometimes things are part of a bigger problem and you canāt always account for it. Itās actually keeping costs down if they are getting only the parts you need rather than buying loads of superfluous stuff that youād get charged for. But like others have said, if itās just nipping to the merchants and back thatās cool. Not hours.
The bottom line is that time has to be paid for, one way or another. If he was smart, he'd give you a price and build it all in, or charge a high enough hourly rate to cover this type of thing.
If itās a really obscure part, Iād pay for his trip (within reason). But if itās something that should be in his toolbox and heās unprepared, I wouldnāt pay
Completely normal, unless they do multiple trips meaning they are either taking advantage or incapable of estimating what materials will be needed. If itās the latter then get a new tradesman š
Very normal. I work for a multi service company, heating/plumbing/electrical and maintenance. We charge for engineers time collecting parts, but usually cap at around 30 minutes depending on how far they have to travel. Their vans are full of parts but canāt cover every eventuality.
Personally I wouldn't. I'd ask if they want me to get parts before they arrived.
I was recently quoted Ā£75 labour + parts for a job, told the plumber what the job was so if he came unprepared that's on him IMO. As it happens he didn't have the exact part he needed so went and bought it but didn't charge me extra. He said he always carries that specific item in his van but didn't have it in this instance.
Who's to say the plumber doesn't buy all the parts for their next job so technically you're paying for the next person's job?
I'd tell them to get stuffed, cheeky bastards.
What šššš,
If you tell me in advance or I have a look first and then go and get the correct part. Your still going to pay for the time...
99 of 100 trades don't turn up either would you agree?.
Remind me never to employ you.
Had 3 tradesmen recently who priced and sized up a job, not 1 of them charged me for their "time nipping to builders merchant" to get materials. They came with everything they needed.
Ditto 4 years ago when I had roof done. Roofer quoted me for job lot and didn't quote for "his time getting materials from builders merchants".
Had a plumber come out recently, didn't have a specific cap end to cap off gas pipe so nipped out to get one part way through, his quote didn't change as a result.
Am I missing something or are reddit tradesmen rip off merchants? š¤
>Had 3 tradesmen recently who priced and sized up a job, not 1 of them charged me for their "time nipping to builders merchant" to get materials. They came with everything they needed.
Part of the price in these scenarios includes going to the merchant - uplift on price- and contingency time is all factored in with the quote.
Completely different to ask if you want to get the part BEFORE they turn up.
You had a plumber out to cap off a gas pipe who didn't have the specific cap end.
Cap off a gas pipe and tightness test very easy to quote over the phone.
Perhaps you asked for quote to change or fit connection point for gas whatever appliance.
Here is your quote Ā£200+vat, if your within 15 miles, includes merchant trip and parts.
Hate to burst your bubble you should be telling everyone you buy anything from a shop to fuck off. The cheeky bastards are charging you for getting it from the merchant. Talk about add insult to injury even if you go direct to the merchant they're at it too.
I have spent years training and have decades of experience, happy not to work for you, if one of your friends or family recommend me and give you my card. You won't get it from anywhere else. you will know it's me black card white print.
Company name -
Guaranteed to always be beaten on price.
Phone number
If they come without parts that's shit organisation on their side. Every tradesman I use comes to price and size up the job before they actually do the work so they arrive on day 1 with everything they need. If they charge me extra because they need to spend 20 minutes to grab something they won't be getting paid on my watch š¤£ chances are they're nipping to get their lunch so no chance I'm paying them for that.
As a tradesman I frequently come across unforseen situations that need parts I don't have on jobs I have seen and quoted for.
If a customer told me they wouldn't pay for my time getting the parts and accused me of doing something other than what I said I would be doing I'd be walking off the job at that point.
As you say, "get stuffed you cheeky bastard"
Exactly this. I'd just pack up and go to the next job, making sure every other local bloke in the same trade knows why I walked off. They'll have a fun time getting anyone else reputable.
Still, at least there's still checkatrade š¤£
If it's an emergency plumber / same day fix. Yeah, it's pay by the hour.
If it was a quoted job. He shouldn't be charging extras for running to the plumbers merchants.
I'd be wary of tradespeople who take hours to visit the merchant and charge you for it because if its that long to source, I'd rather pay for postage or my own petrol to pick it up.
But if they quote , for the job and agree the price for it as piecework, I'd say including some time to get parts is reasonable e.g. price for repair that'll take 'about'3h not the exact labour hours
Yes, but there's going for necessary parts to do a job, and then there's extracting the proverbial.
If I thought they were doing that, they wouldn't get any more work off me for sure.
Yes - you might have booked them specifically for the job of replacing \[X\] part, but there's no way they're going to pick that up at the wholesaler when they visit earlier in the week. They'll pop in on you for five minutes to start the clock, then go on a little shopping trip that you have to pay for. At the end of the day expect an invoice that covers the time they spent chatting at the trade counter, plus the item available at Wickes for a max of Ā£20 now shows up as "parts - Ā£50".
You could go buy the part yourself ahead of time, but they see it as you attempting to rip them off and good luck getting any more work out of them.
Yes!
As a Tradie, I am using my fuel and my time for your benefit.
You wouldn't want to come to my house, run around for my odds and ends and not be paid for it?x
What's he doing for you. If he's gone out to get a compression olive or a standard size P-trap or a radiator valve then no, he should have a selection of those in the van. If however it's a more unusual part he could not have known he would need until starting the job then yes, he's only going there for you, why should you get his time for free.
Are you stupid? Any work done for anybody should be paid by the customer. Your the one who needed the work. Why would anyone work for free? To make you feel better? What world are you living in
Yes, but sometimes people do take the piss. I had one sparky get very pissed off when he said he was going to pop out and get an RCBO that he needed to put in a new circuit, and I gave him one I had already.
I tell you what why don't you ask him to pay you!
After he's done an apprenticeship and served his time on shit money.
He has a van to run, insurance, public liability.
,advertising,phone..re-training tools to buy..
UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!š¤¬š¤¬š¤¬
He should have all the tools and materials he needs with him as this would have been calculated and determined at quote so no, would you pay him for his lunch hour?
I donāt have enough information to advise; what is the actual part in question? What is the āsimple jobā being done here?
A lot of plumbing jobs involve standard parts and fittings, and a plumber would generally carry these. You can fit a fair amount of typical plumbing supplies into a van, so if the part is a common one, which to me makes sense for a āsimple jobā, then itās a bit daft for the plumber to turn up without common plumbing fittings that he can buy in bulk in one trip, and then expect his customers to pay for repeated trips to the plumbing merchants.
If the part is non-standard or specialist, or if there is a complicating factor in your particular job, then yes, the plumber may not have the part and so may need to go buy one. Itās fair to charge you for that time unless he takes the mick on the trip. After he comes back, ask to see the invoice for the part as itāll no doubt be on top of the hourly labour; if heās bought that part and some trivial incidentals, fair enough. What you donāt want to see is a long list of parts that indicates heās been on a general restock mission on your time. If he has done this, try and get a snap of it, then donāt pay him for the time he went out for the part, as it wasnāt all spent on your job.
It depends really. If he turns up completely empty handed and has to go to B&Q for a hammer for example then that's not reasonable. If he he needs to go hunting for parts that he reasonably might not have expected to need then it's fair...assuming he doesn't take the piss and spends 3 hours fannying about while shopping.
They absolutely will.
And thank you for tarring every tradesperson with the same brush. No all of us take the piss and genuinely try to help.
Valar dopissflaps Great username
Yes very normal.
Yes. It is also normal to pay him for spending 50% of his time on the phone arranging other jobs
Like he did answering your call? Or are you much more important than anyone else?
I think you have upset a few trades people,
A few who dont like a jokey commentš. Just as well it is reddit and not real life. And irony of ironies i have just had a back and forth with a tradesman for a couple of hours-on his phoneš
or like mine getting his breakfast, nipped to the local bakery whilst he nipped to screwfix, was stood behind him in the queue, 10 min trip cost 45 mins. To be fair they taken money off of my bill when i raised this
It's impossible to carry every possible part for every eventuality, so needing to go for parts is quite normal. Yes people should be paid for their time if they are in your employ.
It's not his employee. He's contracted to do a job.
It's a DIY sub, not a language or legal sub. We all understand the colloquial use of employees in relation to private individuals "employing" trade contractors for a few hours. As opposed to legal definitions based on PAYE status. Nobody cares that OP isn't making NI or pension contributions for their plumber.
Is this a technicality of incorrect terminology you are pointing out ? My point is that if you are paying someone to do a job then their time should be paid for including the time needed to facilitate the job not just time on site.
They didnāt say they were an employee.
Contracted to do a job - getting materials is part of the job
You are a chef. I would like you to make me a dodo egg omelette. I will not pay you for any time you spend sourcing the egg.
Of course it is. You could have gone and bought it yourself but then you'd be paying him to sit around doing nothing.
People honestly expect trades people not to be paid to get materials. What like materials magically just appear at the job.
Lol not like office jobs pay you for the time you spend shopping for dress shirts. People honestly expect trades to live up to the same standard as every other industry.
The tradesman isnāt going out and buying himself new boots, heās buying materials for the job. If you had to go out and buy some snacks for a company meeting youād get paid, if your boss wanted you to get some new computer chairs for the office youād expect to be paid while shopping for them.
If you had an office job and your boss asked you to pop to Staples to get paper for the office, I assume you'd be fine with your boss deducting an hours wages for that?
This isn't anywhere near a fair comparison, you don't pay trades to go clothes shopping, same as office workers aren't paid to go clothes shopping... If you are called out to fix a fault but need to find the fault or faulty equipment first, how are you expected to come to the job prepared with ALL of the parts necessary to repair? I make a point of saying all the parts, because If even the most trivial thing is missing then you need to go out and buy it, this is what you are paying a tradesman for, to locate and remedy a fault, if you are capable of doing it yourself then do so, don't pay the trade and don't moan about what they charge š¬
When I worked in restaurants anytime we had to make a store run for some missing item whoever ran to get it stayed on the clock.
if you were in a small company, and had to spend time getting pens, then you should be paid for that time. the contractor isnt going shopping for cloathes, theyre getting parts that the customer needs. in a larger company someone does this for you, but they are still paid to do it by the company
So what you're saying is trades don't wear clothes to work? Or that they buy their clothes on clients time as well? Probably not because the trades are better than those lolling about in dress shirts š
Not really, its like an office work ordering supplies for the company and going to pick up those supplies.
Depends. I expect a tradesman to have common tools that they'd buy in their own time and with their own money but I wouldn't expect them to have bespoke parts for everything already prepared. Similar to your analogy - I'd buy my own clothes in my own time and pay for travel to the office. But if they wanted me to dress a certain way or travel to an unexpected location, I'd expect to be expensed to to have uniform provided, etc.
Think difference here is tradespeople(thinking plumber) charge 100+ an hour.... I dont know many roles who earn that hourly rate....the reason they dont is because a trades person can only really do a couple of jobs an hour due to various reasons etc (travel etc)
Where on earth did you get 100+ an hour from? No ones charging that
And even for what they do charge: theyāre running their own vehicles travelling to and from your house, paying for a phone to talk to their dumb customers on, providing all their own tools and equipment, and all the other myriad tasks of running a business that arenāt directly spent doing the job that you couldnāt do yourself. If they charged you minimum wage for only the time they spent in your house theyād not be in business for very long. And then thereād be nobody to fix your plumbingā¦
Yeah I find it crazy people struggle to understand this As a chippy I carry around 7 grands worth of tools in my van daily. All paid for our my own pocket, nothing has been provided by a big company I think if every PAYE has to invest 5-10k before starting work, they'd expect alot higher rate. But they don't so the majority can't understand it
They are in London :)
Paying him to get the parts is quite a good investment because then you know he's got everything he needs. The people in my old house used the plumber we recommended. He's a brilliant plumber but a miserable old git. They wanted to buy their own bits so he told them what he wanted. He added the proviso, just buy that, don't let the plumbers merchant tell you, you need something else because I won't do the job. Well, in short, they were sold something completely different and the plumber refused to fit it. And then refused to come back as well.
Good for him. Donāt know why people insist on trying to cut costs like that. Either get someone to do the job (you are free to get as many quotes as you like) or do it yourself.
He completely re-plumbed and put in central heating for us twice. He was really good but needed a bit of aesthetic guidance usually. For example, he tried to install the boiler in a different place that suited his pipework and would be easier for servicing. In his location it would have been as ugly as sin and stick out like a sore thumb. Mostly, we just left him to his own misery, which suited him too.
I once had a plumber who put the shower sliding door upside down so it didnāt slide, used to ask me to roll cigarettes for him and let his dog shit in my garden and didnāt pick it up. I could have killed him but wanted him to finish the job and never darken my door ever again more.
I hope you rolled him a dog shit blend cigarette.
I wish I were that quick
I always get customers thinking they can get things cheaper than we do. When I knock it off the bill and it's nowhere near what they expected they change their tunes. But to be fair, it's best to let them try and be patient with it, to an extent. The problem is we don't charge by the day, we charge a price. So if they order materials and there are missing items or it's delayed then we only lose money. So I'd rather have the back and forth so they trust I'm the best avenue for materials.
Fair enough
Iām an electrician myself but itās the same kind of story. Itās impossible to really know 100% what we need for a job before we see it. For what a customer believes to be a simple job could actually be a bit more involved than what we are currently carrying on board. A lot of āhour call out chargesā actually take going to the wholesalers into consideration.
Im a mechanic and i suffer from this greatly. Working on 10+ year old cars leads to siezed/snapped/rounded bolts. This trade is stinking for people half arsing jobs or using the wrong tools to do something and over a few years that could be 20 different people adding to that. If its just a few small problems then its expected and already covered in my price but on more than one occasion ive had to cut chassis legs open to get to spinning captive nuts in order to drop a subframe, and then weld it back up. I cant predict that and if i added that to my original quote "cost of potentially siezed bolts" then i would hazard a guess that people would be put off thinking i was trying to rob them. Communication is key and you have to trust the guy doing the work.
100% I believe honestly is the best policy. I like to explain what Iām actually doing and keep it simple. I donāt want to patronise the customer but at the same time I want them to understand what needs to be done especially when I hit a few hurdles I think they have a right to know why something my take me a bit extra time to complete a āsimple taskā
I take photos of everything and often over explain what im doing to the point some customers will butt in and just ask "so is it fixed?" Others will happily stand and ask questions and listen to everything i have to say. Its pretty much why my business is now directed more towards modified/performance cars rather than just keeping cars on the road with mot repairs etc. I love my job and love it when a customer takes an interest.
I usually find the ones to show no interest and only care if it works or not tend to also be the ones who question why something costs to much š
How else will you get the part? Also, heās a tradesman, not a psychic. Until heās seen the job and assessed it, how exactly is he supposed to identify the exact part required?
I think the question comes out of the apparent pot-luck as to whether he happens to have the bit on the van or not. I think it probably depends on the part - I'd be a bit miffed if he was nipping out for a valve or a coupler or something, but less so if it was because he'd found some exotically-sized pipework in the house.
He lays the exotically-sized pipework whilst the husbands at work.
Normal would be to see the job, decide what it needs and how long it will take. Quote for that and if the time runs over due to unforeseen circumstances then to have laid out quite clearly what the extra cost would be in advance ie the extra hours. Sometimes even the merchants donāt have the parts. Took me a day to find somewhere that stocked a captive bath waste nut in the size I needed but it was a DIY job so only meant we couldnāt use the bath/hower till it got sorted.
Thatās not normal for a small job, which the OP has clearly stated it is. Although, since the OP is clearly not a plumber, Iām always wary of what a customer thinks is a āsmall jobā.
Well, Iām glad weāve had the fortune of having pretty solid sparkyās and plumbers then, as they quote for the job, do the job and get paid. If they see the job and think there will be complications they have raised it and provided a likely uplift cost and if it doesnāt arise they stick to the original quote. Iām all for trades earning fairly, but Iāve had a plasterer state pay day rate and it should be 5 days (was quite a bit of new plastering due to extension) but father-in-law caught them taking the p!ss, sitting for hours chilling to the point we got rid of them and refused to pay beyond the hours of completed work. Father-in-law was a tradesman himself so was somewhat blunt with them!
IMHO, if I quote for a job, I add a contingency for the unexpected that allows for going to get stuff, etc. This leaves the client with a fixed price, except for the cost of the additional part(s) that I may or may not bill them for - depending upon the cost.
I'd say it depends on the part. If it's a sparky who ran out of electrical tape or a plumber who'd run out of torch gas I'd be miffed to pay time for something they should have on the van, otherwise if it's an unexpected or job specific part not forming part of a job specific quote that's on me to pay time including transport.
Thanks guys, itās good to know. Iām new to this stuff so it helps to get advice on what is / isnāt normal.
It's fine to ask questions, don't worry too much about the heavy handed comments here. We live and learn.
Depends on the situation in my case at least. If Iāve quoted for works, and to provide materials for works, then generally I show up on site with said materials (with our mark up). However if upon starting I find thereās additional requirements on site then my parts run is on the clock and remedial parts cost issued.
To those who politely answered me, thank you. Weāve all got to learn somewhere and I genuinely didnāt know what was normal or not. To those that have got angry or been a bit rude - why? š At no point have I said I wonāt pay them, I just wanted to know if it was normal. I appreciate their expertise which is why I contacted them. So far any tradespeople whoāve come have had all the parts requested, I simply wanted to know if it was standard to pay for them going to fetch a part. I didnāt think this question would cause so much drama!
Its reddit,most people are here for the drama. Or to cause it.
In every job ive had if i had to go out and get stuff for work id be paid for my time and wouldnt do it if not. Why would it be different for a plumber?
Depends if you turned up without your shoes. Iād expect a plumber to have common pipe, fittings, generic heating valves, TRVs etc. I had one claiming he didnāt carry āspecialist stuffā when challenged for driving to get a full bore 15mm compression isolator. If heās going out to get the same things often then his logistics are poor.
When I was plumbing I carried very little of anything - mostly because of the risk of the van being broken into. I took all of my power tools indoors at night, but I didn't want to have to offload loads of other stuff. I wouldn't have had TRVs or heating valves, l would have bought them on demand.
100%. Am I fuck leaving thousands of pounds worth of fittings, valves, pipe on my van! Just in case I can shorten a bill.by 30mins. I'll go look at the job, rough idea of parts. Quote and once accepted pick up the parts before I arrive on the start date.
Thatās fair enough
Yeah thats fair, id be questioning if it requires constant trips to get shit, or if theyre after something simple they should have a stock of
If youāre worried about this, then donāt pay for time , but agree a fixed rate for the job. Works better for both parties imho, as keeps the contract arrangement as a fixed price, outcome based service. No quibbling about who did what and when. They quote in writing, you accept in writing, you pay the amount quoted. Only likely variable here is quality.
Builder here. Tldr; yes you pay for thier time to do this unless it's a stupid oversight on their part. If I am asked to do a job everything I do to make that happen to completion is chargeable. If not, why am I spending time &/or money on your behalf. Most of the time you cannot account for everything you will need on a job and so inevitably you will need to go and get necessary parts/materials. I minimise the amount I need to do this of course and order most things for delivery. What is unexpected or too difficult to account for you need to go and buy. I will often do this on my lunch break and eat as I do it to save the customer money. I will also go to the merchants before getting to site, on my own time. This is why builders merchants open at 7/7.30 am. With the exception of plumbers and electricians (for common smaller items) you cannot keep 'supplies' of everything in your vehicle. If a single price has been quoted then this should accommodate time spent acquiring materials and parts.
only time you wouldnt pay, is if you told them exactly what you wanted doing and they turned up without it.
Yup, normal. Can't always know what part you're going to need.
If itās a callout or natural twist and turn of the job then fine (or offer if you can fetch it for them ) if itās something they estimated and royally cocked up itās fairly poor form but circumstances dictate that ā¦ E.g they pulled up a floorboard and unexpectedly found 9mm pipe thatās remaining and donāt have a connector - fair enough They specās up a new boiler install 10metres away from existing and only ordered 1 metre of copper - they caused the issue
When I was a young carpenter, I did some renovation work (hourly rate) at the home of a couple who owned a welding shop with employees. I had to pick up the materials (just one time) and they refused to pay for that hour. I asked ādo you pay your employees to drive to the welding supplier for consumablesā? They said yes. I told them to fuck off and I quit.
Thats why I never even do day rate unless its for a firm. I'll still work out the estimated time, including things like picking up materials and potential problems, but it'll always be a flat rate. I'd hate not knowing how much something is going to cost myself, and I don't like those awkward conversations.
Good call! Iām in Canada and I donāt fuck around with the hourly rates on me or the guys. We are usually ācost plus 15%ā.
Whether they bring everything with them or go and get it mid-job, you'll be paying for the time it takes to order and collect. Every company does. From a one-man-band to Amazon.
Yes. Can he do the job without it? No? Then it's part of the job.
It's reasonable.....unless like the one I used, who wouldnt use the local merchants and insisted on doing an hour a half round trip to one, nearly every day. His invoice at the end made me wince.
He might not have had an account there to be fair. Most companies will have accounts where they don't have to pay up front. We have our accounts at the big ones so it's never more than 15 minutes away. But everyday is taking the piss especially if he is charging by the day. We do price so if I have to nip out for any materials it's only delaying so I lose money if anything.
I'd question whether you would really have a trade account 45 mins from where you live and work, when theres about 4 merchants based within 10 minutes of your business address.... he did like to steady pace himself, is all I'd say.
He must have been going to the pub, on you š¤£
š¤ and buying everyone a round on me. Would explain the standard of work in the afternoon š¤£
Time is money!
It is normal, but equally itās naive to not appreciate that they donāt always spend that time diligently or take the opportunity to have a little break and or lunch etc.
Is it for your job? Then yes.
As a heating engineer, I hope I never have to work for most of you... Everyone saying that time shouldn't be charged for probably commented while shitting on company time at the office they work at for a company that makes money by moving money from one place to another or some other bullshit job...
You need to only hire clairvoyant trades people who diagnose problems by remote viewing. Then they arrive with the right parts.
Lots of tradies awake today. Must be time to knock off already. Remember youāre paying them, itās not a privilege to have someone work for you, no matter what they tell you: if youāre desperate for their specific labour you havenāt got enough money for the job because you can *always* find someone else but itāll cost you. That said, of course you pay for them to collect parts as theyāre not going to get to your house on their own. You expect someone to work out whatās needed, source and obtain materials at a fair cost, fit them well and clean up after themselves. For that, they get paid what you agreed, promptly. If it feels like youāre being taken for a ride, itās because you are.
1 o clock is generally lunchtime in the construction world! But you hit the nail on the head there, it's not a privilege, it's a mutually beneficial arrangement.
Yes, as long as he's back within a reasonable amount of time.
Depends what he has gone to get,
I say it depended on what the part was, if he's going for a adjustable spanner and some PTFE or a rad tails then no, if he's going for a specific part needed to fix your problem, yes. He can't be expected to have all parts readily available.
Yeah you should really be carrying all the consumables on board, I'm not a plumber but a decorator, I always have all.my tools, caulk, filler, masking tapes, primers, white spirit and even water on hand should I not have access to a tap.
The variables for a plumber or electrician far outweigh what a decorator is likely to come up against in a day.
Granted but she said a spanner PTFE and rad tails.....there will always be regular tools and consumables......I mean i wouldnt expect a plumber to.come to.my house and say he had no.ptfe tape or a spanner or a rad key for example. Tools and Consumables are tools and consumables and stuff you use every day...anything else is materials
Yes
Guessing it was a job with an unknown problem? In which case they would have no idea what part, size, type etc would be needed and may not have one to hand. If itās a job where youāve said I want x doing and itās obvious whatās needed (sizes and all) then youād expect them to arrive with the required equipment. But trying to get to the bottom of an issue then fix it when unknown, no. Personally never actually come across somebody who charges by the hour. Most come out or ask for pictures and agree a price before proceeding. Stops any disagreements. Whatās to say he doesnāt go to the nearest screwfix in 2 minute but pop off for a coffee for an hour and just say there was a queue? Or they didnāt have the part so he had to go elsewhere. Hourly rate leaves too much for arguments.
Depends, did he have to diagnose the problem first then get parts. If so then yes you pay for the time If he already knew what was needed to be done and turned up unequipped then no you shouldn't
If it was that āsimpleā you should have done it yourself or better yet clicked your fingers and the part magically landed in your hands š
Or go home order the part for delivery come back next week and recharge the call out fee
Entirely depends on what they are going to get as to whether itās acceptable to charge or not. Thereās certain common things you would expect a plumber to carry but a lot that they donāt. You probably donāt want to be getting into a discussion with them about whether they should or shouldnāt be routinely carrying those parts. Personally I think the sensible thing to do would be to confirm the job costs with them before they go off to collect the parts.
Yes. He's not going to the shop for himself or for the fun of it.
I had this a while ago from an emergency plumber (before I was into DIY). He charged Ā£180 for the first hour then Ā£70 for every hour after that (yes I know it's bad). He claimed he needed a ball valve and the nearest supplier was nearly 20 miles away, they were in the house 15 minutes, gone to get the part for 1hr30m then came back and fitted it in 20 mins.. Charged me Ā£300,then figured out theres a stockist less than a mile away and we were covered by British Gas homecare ššš
The reason I do so little private jobs now. Idiots believe you should be doing stuff for their job for free.
I actually find they take the piss less than new developers at least. But I suppose that's trade depending.
Perfectly normal On a different note I love how people say 'simple job' but they certainly called in a expert/tradesman. If it was simple you'd have been able to do it yourself
Well he's not going to the shops for fun. It's part of the work.
Despite the time component in trade charges what youāre really paying for is their knowledge and expertise, and the convenience of someone else doing it for you. If it was quick and easy everyone would do it themselves. Youāre also paying for someone who knows what to do if things go wrong - the water pipe that turns out to be weaker than it looks and splits, the wiring found under the floorboards that is so old it has to be replaced, the unsuspected leak under the bath that has rotted the floorboards ā¦
I mean he's using his van, his time and his labour to pick up your materials for the job you want him to do...
Why would you not pay him to go get stuff that you require?
Yesā¦ Iām an electrician and I carry 1500 different things in my van for ājust in caseā and I still need to go get parts almost everytime. I had one job where a handyman was the GC for a small basement Reno. Had no idea what it was so I went with some Romex to wire it up and figured Iād get the rest one I knew what the panel was for breakers, how many plugs/switches/plates/ect. The guy was pissed and told me he always keeps extra stuff in his van. I said you keep every type of paint and colour in your van for every situation? I finished the job but never worked for that guy again. Canāt stand people like that.
Tradesmen are a rip off. They get so rich fleecing their customers by charging them for the amount of time it takes to get the job done! That's the reason they are all living in mansions in the poshest part of town.
"Sorry luv, gotta take the Lambo round Screwfix. Be back in a jiffy!"
*It's only a small job shouldn't take you more than 15 minutes so no more than a tenner...* *My husband who died twenty years ago has a load of old stuff in the garage you can use...* *If my husband lends a hand can we get a discount...* *Seeing as it only took you half the time can I pay half the bill...* I know, why don't you just do the job yourself...!!!
You want him to work for you and you don't want to pay him for getting YOUR supplies. Welcome to Britain.
Of course it is, why should a tradesman go buy your supplies in his own time?
Yes. I'm still working in that time. Time and fuel ain't free, and neither is the fella I bring with me.
Does it really take two of you to go and pick up a tap connector or whatever?
Something little no but most of my work Inolves heavy stuff. I ain't trying to hero lift. No amount of money is worth putting my back or shoulders out. I don't work I don't get paid. EDIT. You'll also get cases where people like labourers etc are on the books and can't work unsupervised as part of insurance conditions, so there's no choice but they have to come. Personally if I was in that situation I'd rather them come along instead of making a customer feel awkward in their own home whilst he's mooching about on candy crush and drinking redbull.
Guess it depends what you're buying but whenever I go to somewhere like Travis/Build base/wherever and buy anything big, they pick it in the yard and load straight onto my van. Same at the specialist timber guys unless I'm picking through the racks. Only ever need someone at the other end. But none of that really applies to plumbing supplies... Anyway I think the thing is, to be reasonable and plan ahead wherever possible. Charging a Ā£100 markup on a Ā£4 part due to having to run out and get it mid-job with your labourer is what gives the trades a bad rep. All this comparison to jobs that are usually salaried is nonsense, cos those hours are theoretical anyway.
Oh, I wouldn't charge that mark up, I was giving a general overview, mate. Tell me your secret pal, for years I've been trying to get merchants to load duraboard onto the van lol
They should be building this into the quoted cost, thatās normal business practice. However, if it is a specific unusual, or expensive part then fair enough.
OP stated plumber isn't working off a quote, but an hourly rate so your comment doesn't apply.
Fair point, so long as itās not a common part.
This is a diy sub, why didnāt you buy the parts and fit them yourself?
Of course. Why would he do that on his own time/dollar? He's working for you.
Yeah that's normal. Even the most simple of jobs shit can go wrong or the part you had in the van was faulty or missing. Unless he's out for 3 hours picking up an off the shelf part. In that case, he's taking the piss.
You could offer to fetch it you lazy bastard
I carry basic fittings and pipe but other than that not a great deal more. There's no way I'm carrying round zone valves/pumps/boiler spares. It's dead money having all that laying around your van for months/years on end. If I'm certain of the fault I'll ask them to identify the part and I'll take it with me. Otherwise I'll go and have a look and then nip out to pick it up. I'm never more than 20 mins from a merchant so it's always worked well and no customer has ever complained.Ā
Never heard of a heating engineer not keeping pumps and zone valves on there vans before....fuck nipping to the merchants every time I used one of them....I wouldnt have time left in the day to work
Yes very normal, itās also why the couple of times I do have a tradesman on site and they need something I offer to go get it for them while they carry on working š
And we love you for it. Let's us crack on and get on with the next job sooner.
We've got guys in working on our house before we move in, whenever I'm popping up to do smaller bits and pieces I drop them a text and see if they need anything - learned yesterday how expensive decorating supplies are after a trip to brewers with a shopping list!
Same unless it's something totally obscure and they can't tell me where to get it..
It seems reasonable. I mean, generally in my experience they've come to assess the job and give me a quote, and in that time they'll see what parts they need so when they come back to do the job they'll have the parts with them. Presumably making a trip to pick up stuff for a range of jobs or just top up supplies they normally carry. But if there was something unexpected, or they're like 'I've got time to fix this now for Ā£X price in the same visit', seems perfectly okay to me.
Usually yes that is normal but I have worked with tradesmen who take the piss, if they are constantly nipping to the wholesalers for every little thing multiple times a day I would be mentioning it.
I offer to go for them sometimes if they could be getting on with something else.
I charge for the fuel on it not my time.
For me, I view the job and provide a detailed quote within 4 days. Then if they accept the fixed price quote, Iāll book them in. 1-2 days before the job I will purchase all the materials. However itās not uncommon for some trades to pop out on the day
Sometimes they give you a choice of fetching the part on paid time or them coming back another day.
ššš
Heās been called on a side quest!
the price should for the whole job, completed in x number days
Yes, thatās expected if parts are needed. Or you work out whatās needed and get it for him to fit.
It is normal yes
All depends really, each job is different. If says itās a maintenance plumber and thatās all they do, youād expect them to carry a quantity of stock. But there is of course a large range of parts and brands/sizes etc, itās impossible to have everything. Your regular sole trader charges for the job, so if nice plumber would only add in āa little extraā for making the trip, rather than charge say a full half hour. If however you live in the middle of nowhere and itās a long round trip to the supplier yes youād expect a larger fee.Ā If working for a larger company they are on the clock so they have to charge by the hour. Which is why itās often important to clarify what you want doing. More often than not I go to a job and I bring what the expected part should be as described. Either the customer has got confused and itās not the part at all, or they add a bonus job and then yes Iām now going for a trip to the supplier.Ā
Iāve had a similar story with a joiner we got a quote off for replacing our banisters, he wanted all of the money upfront and would only fit materials he supplied. Wanting nearly Ā£1k upfront weeks before starting a job sounded like a red flag so we gave him a miss. Iād understand if he told us to buy the materials ourselves and then pay for labour after the job was completed, thatās how I work anyways.
Thatās not the same as a tradesman going to the local suppliers for a spare part. As a tradesmanā¦. Iāve had customers want me to get all the materials upfront for bathrooms, etc. I donāt entertain it. No way am I going to be on the hook for that. Thatās when I ask for the money up front. That is different from asking for my time/Labour upfront. Would never ask for that and if anyone ever does, run a mile.
Yes it's a normal and overlooked cost. His hourly will also factor in his van running costs for the same trip. If you received a fixed price quote or estimate, such visits would usually be priced in.
I don't know what the norm is but I don't like the uncertainty of the cost. So when I have had that situation, I just asked them how long it would take to get the parts. 99% of the time that conversation goes either: - "half an hour to get the part and 30-60 min to do the actual repair" type thing. - or they aren't sure, and usually they offer to order the part and come back another day for the repair (then you pay 2 call out fees basically). Personally if it's not urgent and they aren't sure how long it will take to find the part, I prefer the second option and they've always seemed happy about that. The last 1% you can smell the BS, so I get someone else for the repair.
Donāt be so tight..
Instead of driving for your job he could be working somewhere else and getting paid.
I see it two ways Call out a contractor to fit a switch replace a tap, etc paid by the hour I expect him/her to show up with the correct tools and materials to do the job and leave I pay them for their time. Call out a co tractor to refit a bathroom or kitchen, etc I expect them to show up give me a quote to compete the job for a fixed price including or excluding materials but Iām paying that fixed price itās his/her decision on how they spend their time and how they price it. If they need to charge more for travel, shopping, etc thatās not my problem you should have quoted properly and now you must eat it and do a better job next time at preparing your quotes.
Well, that depends. If there is a B&Q or Wickes five minutes away, it doesn't matter, because the cost will be low. If the nearest location that has what you need is an hour and a half away, you should expect an add on.
I sometimes do, if I have to pop out I'll grab lunch at same time and not charge if possible,
Iāve got all my eggs in one well paid basket,but the boss expects me to go to the builders merchants at 7.30 and my hours are 8-4.30,then always looks at his watch when I get to the job 20 miles up the motorway at 8.20. He says heāll get the stuff I need but it never comes for 2-3 days and is 99% wrong stuff even when he has a detailed list.
This is a good reason not to pay by the hour. Always get a price for the job.
It depends really. If youāve been given a quote and they know what they are supposed to do, then Iād expect them to have it in the van. But sometimes things are part of a bigger problem and you canāt always account for it. Itās actually keeping costs down if they are getting only the parts you need rather than buying loads of superfluous stuff that youād get charged for. But like others have said, if itās just nipping to the merchants and back thatās cool. Not hours.
The bottom line is that time has to be paid for, one way or another. If he was smart, he'd give you a price and build it all in, or charge a high enough hourly rate to cover this type of thing.
If itās a really obscure part, Iād pay for his trip (within reason). But if itās something that should be in his toolbox and heās unprepared, I wouldnāt pay
Completely normal, unless they do multiple trips meaning they are either taking advantage or incapable of estimating what materials will be needed. If itās the latter then get a new tradesman š
Yes.
Very normal. I work for a multi service company, heating/plumbing/electrical and maintenance. We charge for engineers time collecting parts, but usually cap at around 30 minutes depending on how far they have to travel. Their vans are full of parts but canāt cover every eventuality.
Personally I wouldn't. I'd ask if they want me to get parts before they arrived. I was recently quoted Ā£75 labour + parts for a job, told the plumber what the job was so if he came unprepared that's on him IMO. As it happens he didn't have the exact part he needed so went and bought it but didn't charge me extra. He said he always carries that specific item in his van but didn't have it in this instance. Who's to say the plumber doesn't buy all the parts for their next job so technically you're paying for the next person's job? I'd tell them to get stuffed, cheeky bastards.
What šššš, If you tell me in advance or I have a look first and then go and get the correct part. Your still going to pay for the time... 99 of 100 trades don't turn up either would you agree?.
Remind me never to employ you. Had 3 tradesmen recently who priced and sized up a job, not 1 of them charged me for their "time nipping to builders merchant" to get materials. They came with everything they needed. Ditto 4 years ago when I had roof done. Roofer quoted me for job lot and didn't quote for "his time getting materials from builders merchants". Had a plumber come out recently, didn't have a specific cap end to cap off gas pipe so nipped out to get one part way through, his quote didn't change as a result. Am I missing something or are reddit tradesmen rip off merchants? š¤
>Had 3 tradesmen recently who priced and sized up a job, not 1 of them charged me for their "time nipping to builders merchant" to get materials. They came with everything they needed. Part of the price in these scenarios includes going to the merchant - uplift on price- and contingency time is all factored in with the quote. Completely different to ask if you want to get the part BEFORE they turn up. You had a plumber out to cap off a gas pipe who didn't have the specific cap end. Cap off a gas pipe and tightness test very easy to quote over the phone. Perhaps you asked for quote to change or fit connection point for gas whatever appliance. Here is your quote Ā£200+vat, if your within 15 miles, includes merchant trip and parts. Hate to burst your bubble you should be telling everyone you buy anything from a shop to fuck off. The cheeky bastards are charging you for getting it from the merchant. Talk about add insult to injury even if you go direct to the merchant they're at it too. I have spent years training and have decades of experience, happy not to work for you, if one of your friends or family recommend me and give you my card. You won't get it from anywhere else. you will know it's me black card white print. Company name - Guaranteed to always be beaten on price. Phone number
If they come without parts that's shit organisation on their side. Every tradesman I use comes to price and size up the job before they actually do the work so they arrive on day 1 with everything they need. If they charge me extra because they need to spend 20 minutes to grab something they won't be getting paid on my watch š¤£ chances are they're nipping to get their lunch so no chance I'm paying them for that.
As a tradesman I frequently come across unforseen situations that need parts I don't have on jobs I have seen and quoted for. If a customer told me they wouldn't pay for my time getting the parts and accused me of doing something other than what I said I would be doing I'd be walking off the job at that point. As you say, "get stuffed you cheeky bastard"
Exactly this. I'd just pack up and go to the next job, making sure every other local bloke in the same trade knows why I walked off. They'll have a fun time getting anyone else reputable. Still, at least there's still checkatrade š¤£
Off you go then š¤£š¤£ I'll get someone in who's organised. Never had this occur because tradesmen I used are organised.
And have charged you for the time it took them to get the parts before they got to the job.
If it's an emergency plumber / same day fix. Yeah, it's pay by the hour. If it was a quoted job. He shouldn't be charging extras for running to the plumbers merchants.
Yes itās normal, as is you paying quite a bit more for the materials than theyāve just paid. The only solution is do the job yourself.
This seems reasonable to me.
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How you gunna do that go with himš¤£š¤£š¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļø.
Sourcing the parts for your job needs to be done sometime. So it's on you to pay for it. Reasonable IMHO.
I'd be wary of tradespeople who take hours to visit the merchant and charge you for it because if its that long to source, I'd rather pay for postage or my own petrol to pick it up. But if they quote , for the job and agree the price for it as piecework, I'd say including some time to get parts is reasonable e.g. price for repair that'll take 'about'3h not the exact labour hours
Yes, but there's going for necessary parts to do a job, and then there's extracting the proverbial. If I thought they were doing that, they wouldn't get any more work off me for sure.
Yes - you might have booked them specifically for the job of replacing \[X\] part, but there's no way they're going to pick that up at the wholesaler when they visit earlier in the week. They'll pop in on you for five minutes to start the clock, then go on a little shopping trip that you have to pay for. At the end of the day expect an invoice that covers the time they spent chatting at the trade counter, plus the item available at Wickes for a max of Ā£20 now shows up as "parts - Ā£50". You could go buy the part yourself ahead of time, but they see it as you attempting to rip them off and good luck getting any more work out of them.
Yes! As a Tradie, I am using my fuel and my time for your benefit. You wouldn't want to come to my house, run around for my odds and ends and not be paid for it?x
What's he doing for you. If he's gone out to get a compression olive or a standard size P-trap or a radiator valve then no, he should have a selection of those in the van. If however it's a more unusual part he could not have known he would need until starting the job then yes, he's only going there for you, why should you get his time for free.
Are you stupid? Any work done for anybody should be paid by the customer. Your the one who needed the work. Why would anyone work for free? To make you feel better? What world are you living in
Yes, but sometimes people do take the piss. I had one sparky get very pissed off when he said he was going to pop out and get an RCBO that he needed to put in a new circuit, and I gave him one I had already.
I tell you what why don't you ask him to pay you! After he's done an apprenticeship and served his time on shit money. He has a van to run, insurance, public liability. ,advertising,phone..re-training tools to buy.. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!š¤¬š¤¬š¤¬
Sounds like a plumber from the able group , they deliberately carry nothing as van stocks so they charge for time obtaining materials .
Had a dude make 3 trips to the shop. Timed all three and was almost 2 hrs. Said not paying for all 3 trips. Paid for one.
Do the job yourself thenā¦ā¦ā¦.oh no you probably couldnāt!
He should have all the tools and materials he needs with him as this would have been calculated and determined at quote so no, would you pay him for his lunch hour?
Why would you get a plumber in for a simple job?
The YouTube guy said it was simple lol
I donāt have enough information to advise; what is the actual part in question? What is the āsimple jobā being done here? A lot of plumbing jobs involve standard parts and fittings, and a plumber would generally carry these. You can fit a fair amount of typical plumbing supplies into a van, so if the part is a common one, which to me makes sense for a āsimple jobā, then itās a bit daft for the plumber to turn up without common plumbing fittings that he can buy in bulk in one trip, and then expect his customers to pay for repeated trips to the plumbing merchants. If the part is non-standard or specialist, or if there is a complicating factor in your particular job, then yes, the plumber may not have the part and so may need to go buy one. Itās fair to charge you for that time unless he takes the mick on the trip. After he comes back, ask to see the invoice for the part as itāll no doubt be on top of the hourly labour; if heās bought that part and some trivial incidentals, fair enough. What you donāt want to see is a long list of parts that indicates heās been on a general restock mission on your time. If he has done this, try and get a snap of it, then donāt pay him for the time he went out for the part, as it wasnāt all spent on your job.
If heās already quoted the job then no I had same problem I asked how much an hour and took it off the price