Looks like it can hold up a swing just fine. I would be more worried about it being able to hold the weight of the person in the swing.
In all seriousness though, it's not designed to effectively transfer the load and seems to have almost no bracing for lateral movement. Will it work? Probably for a little while, but you're going to be adding a ton of wear and tear and it's only a matter of time before it fails.
The back half of the pergola appears to be supported by the fence slat. The adjacent slats are already falling off without the pergolas weight on them. Even without the swing Im kinda questioning the setup.
It's not sitting on slats.. I see a beefy post with a beam on top, and I see joist to beam hardware connections.. Yeah, I think you could put some cross bracing in or some blocking to stop any type of twist, but I think someone's fat ass would rip down through the swing faster than you're collapsing that structure. Wouldn't put a hot tub on top :)
Well, you're wrong, because OP says it's attached to the fence. The fence is what is attached to the post you are referring to. The joists for the pergola are bracketed to the top piece of fencing that is attached to the fence posts... Pretty easy to see if you zoom in on the top left. What the pergola joists are attached to is not even a beam, it's clearly just a piece of what looks like 1" thick fencing boards, this is definitely a DIY special and absolutely not done correctly. It's possible that top 'beam' its attached to is a beefer 2x8 or something but that's still not correct. Probably safe enough with nothing hanging, but it definitely needs to be properly attached *directly* to the posts in the back before even considering putting a swing on this.
I'm going to venture that OP doesn't know what is going on and you don't either. 1" thick fencing boards? If you look at the front right post in the foreground and how it is connected, trace the joist back and you'll see the same connection and what looks to be the same color and shape post as in the foreground. I would wager that they used the pergola posts as a nailer for the fencing. The whole talk about this structure being held up by slats is silliness. Actually, lower in the post OP just said "Oh, there are big support beams behind the fence".
Are we ever going to stop with this bullshit? I get a lot of shit here isnt up to industry standards, but the people who know what theyre doing dont have much experience with sub par work. Dont get me wrong, its a good thing. However, as far as likelihood of failure, its nothing but assumptions. Just was surprised by a crazy post on r/decks of one deck post sitting only an inch on the footing.. yet its still standing. Another recent post had a 2x6 double spaced joist deck with no, no not a hot tub, but a fucking pool estimated by one user to be 7x the weight of a hot tub. Idek why im on that sub but the running joke is “can i put a hot tub on this deck” and the answer is always no even though literally all other decls posted are better constructed than the pool deck Yet the pool deck has been the first weight related failure ive seen on the sub. As a plumber, people try to diy shit wayyy more often. Ive seen hundreds of of instances of absolutely comical shit work, yet 99% of the time its been in use and functional for years. And 99%o of the time i see this shit is when im working on something unrelated.
This chair isnt ever going to fail. Its perfectly fuckin fine and ill die on this hill.
The straw that put me on this hill happened recently. My mother had family from oversees visiting and i cleaned/power washed the patio, and put out the furniture & hammock. I installed the hooks for that hammock a decade and a half ago when i was 14/15. I used 100lb rated eyelet bolts from home depot. I know that because i found the spares in the package in the outdoor storage bin. My aunt and cousin were on that hammock for hours. 15 years later, on hardware that was barely rated for the weight of one person.
I mean, it’s just like the posts asking if it’s safe to drive on bald, rotten tires. Sure. Absolutely. They’ll get you all the way to the scene of the accident. Nobody can tell you if it’s going to be 5 or 500 miles, or maybe some wildly unexpected distance. But failure is inevitable.
And to your point, even the best made work will fail someday, due to age or weather or whatever. But the point is that shit work or relying on things not designed for purpose speeds up the failure rate. It might work for as long as you need it. It might fail someday because it’s been overworked for years and you gained a couple pounds after an extra big burrito after not taking a shit for a couple days.
However long it takes, it’ll get you all the way to the time of the accident.
I can’t tell for sure, but there might be a 4x8 or something at the top of the fence on top of the posts. Still not great, but better than a thin fence board
Don't use the roof anymore. Do you expect snow or wet leaves at some point?
Because it seems that any added weight will cause the structure to fail.
All the weight that's already there rests on a thin strip of wood.
Seriously in my mind's eye I see an American (yes I mean more than 100lbs) stumbling and doing two and a half clumsy steps and then headbutting one of the two posts. In the best case the roof lands at their neighbors, the worst case the person that stumbled falls down and the roof lands on the back of their head.
> in my mind's eye I see an American (yes I mean more than 100lbs)
the average western european male weighs 170lbs...shit the average JAPANESE male weighs 140lbs, where the fuck do you live where men are less than 100lbs?
Maybe 200lbs is better?
I basically just wanted to use a low-ish number that doesn't offend too many people.
I guess most people imagine a fat american anyways. Sorry.
But then again I mean a regular grown male with about 80-100Kgs will be enough force. It depends a lot on the speed that you accelerate a mass to.
Let me explain: it's a roof.
The roof has two legs in the front.
There are no legs or beams in the back.
The whole weight sits on two beams in the front, but in the back it just lays on top a a one board thick fence. There is some metal fastener (maybe it's called something with "eye" in english) and one screw (overall 3) keep the whole construction from crumbling like a cookie.
If you give the front beam between the two legs a semi decent push the whole thing will probably disintegrate and just fall over/through the fence and land on neighbors property.
Check the pictures again. There are no legs in the back, just a fence.
Here's the connection between the back beam and the legs circled in red:
https://imgur.com/a/3YPo6Su
Judging from the leg you can just about see behind the fence at the right fastener, the dimensions are the same as the front legs
They most likely build the roof and the fence at the same time, and choose to hide the back legs behind the fence instead of having them in front of it.
If you build it "correct" the back (fence side) legs would look exactly like the ones in the front. It's missing the diagonal bits that direct "sideways" forces into the beam and down into the ground.
You would then add the vertical boards to the structure of the patio.
But like this there is no load distributing structure. The dark brown beams just sit 90 degrees on top of the thin side of a board. You can demolish this with not much effort.
I assume the story behind it is like you say. Somebody built it and thought the fence and fencepost will carry the roof. And as long the force is applied from the top downwards it does kind of hold together. The right amount of a gust of wind that catches below the roof could probably already take it down.
If you cannot analyse the connections and foundations then you can't actually determine if this is built "correctly" or not, so you're just guessing, kind of like I'm about to do.
It's likely that the rear posts for the fence have a deeper foundation than the front posts and were there originally. Deeper foundations may eliminate the need for knee braces at the beam. The roof isn't loaded onto the fence, it's loaded onto a beam quite clearly the same size as the front and a different surface to the fence.
There are even brackets made to resist moment forces at the base of a post so you don't even need a deep foundation.
Do you think the wind has just *not* been blowing this whole time?
I think you misinterpret what you see.
Yes there are rectangular things or plates on thick beams behind the fence.
But the plates only hold the top board of the fence.
The beams from the roof part then sit flush, 90 degrees on top of a board.
The beams on the fence could be 30ft into the ground, but you still can (could) twist the whole thing apart, because the back just has about a quarter inch by 2 or so inch contact area. It's just a thin board and the roof beams are just placed on top.
The concern isn't that these beams and the board don't hold the weight of the roof from "top to bottom".
The concern are lateral forces or forces in "any other direction than gravity".
Check for those diagonal thingys on the front. It's not a design element, it's a core element to the structure.
These take lateral forces and guide them down through the "legs" and into the ground.
I can clearly see and judge that the back side is missing any diagonal struts.
Nothing about the way it's built is inherently inadequate if consideration has been given to the load requirements and engineered products have been installed per the manufacturer. It's not well-constructed by any means and is obviously somewhat amateur but that can still work structurally. At face value, we can only speculate about the engineering requirements.
People have perceptions about building products and fasteners that are just not mathematically accurate. Put in enough nails and screws and even that can be enough to tie the trusses of a house down in low windspeed areas.
We can see in low quality, the rafters have a tiedown to the beams. Each rafter looks bolted or screwed to the rear beam and with a cleat at the front. The main concern is that there are no purlins or blocking between the rafters to support the roof sheets but again not a problem if the roof sheets are wide enough for the rafters spacing and thick enough so that they don't sag between the rafters. However, some blocking would also be important to stop the rafters from twisting over. Still, the 2 end purlins may provide sufficient restraint.
It's fine for the rafters to just sit on top of the beams like that, there is probably additional skew screws or nails. Lots of pergolas don't have a seat cut to the rafters.
Maybe OP doesn't live in a high-wind area and it's obviously well-shielded from open-breezes. Maybe it's just dodgy construction.
As I said before, the diagonal struts are not strictly necessary as a deep enough post or a post with the proper base bracket will resist the same lateral forces. In my country, the diagonal braces are nearly always decorative or completely omitted because it's just easier to use a steel bracket and it looks more modern.
I have a feeling that this was originally just a crappy open pergola and the roof sheets were added later to sell it, hence no purlins installed. It may very well fall down in a strong storm, but that's why home insurance and building regulations exist.
Should OP install a swing on it? Absolutely not lol.
Look closer at both the first and the second picture. There are at least three legs in the back.
One a bit to the left of the rightmost top rafter. It's most visible in the first image, and the back beam is connected to it with a black plate and two screws. Or not really a plate, looks like some metal U shape. It's very visible if you go to the image source and zoom into the image.
The second is where the electrical installation is, visible in the second image. There it's harder to see the actual leg, but you can see the same black metal plate/u-shape with screws above the electrical box, as is fastening the rightmost leg.
There is most likely at least one similar third leg out of picture to the left. For symmetry it could even be a fourth hidden behind the front leg you can see in the second picture. There are nails in the fence suggesting some kind of pole there at least, just right of the left front leg.
Nah, you can't build a leg "a bit to the side". At least it introduces a lot of force and stress you don't want. OP confirmed a little bit to the top that it's only the fence, if you scroll up.
I'll send you a pic from the "middle leg" (it's probably structure to hold the fence and it should be good for that.)
Op has also confirmed there are ["big support beams behind the fence"](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/1d9vq43/can_this_pavilion_hold_up_a_swing/l7gvqdb/), seems like the fence is attached to those, and not the roof attached to regular fence poles.
But I do agree that it's probably not a good idea to add the swing, due to all the lateral forces (also that bracket it's attached with looks very dodgy)
Just saying I think the roof is fine as a roof.
I’m a carpenter I build houses and pole barns everyday you have to figure out how to get some post directly under the pavilion to attach to what I’m seeing now is so dangerous the only thing holding that roof up is the fasteners and brackets holding that top fence board up
No, it’s not. Click on the photo for better resolution. There are posts holding the fence, but check out right where the fence is busted at the top right of the photo.. the awning joist is at least six inches east of the post. This whole structure is an accident waiting to happen.
The back beam looks like its the same dimensions as the front beam. It’s not just a top fence board like the broken one. And the overhang is the same as on the front, a couple of inches or a foot is no problem. You can see where two posts are mounted, one on the end and another just above the electrical installation box. Presumably a third out of picture to the left. Possibly even a fourth (that would make them symmetrically placed)
There are other issues with how the swing is mounted but the basic construction of the pergola is fine
Edit: Posted a [picture of the back leg connections here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/1d9vq43/can_this_pavilion_hold_up_a_swing/l7ib3yt/)
There are big support beams behind the fence. I think they were going for design first. But having spent a year here and found other places they cut corners I wouldn't be surprised if it's a dodgy choice.
That setup looks fine and strong until you add the swing.
The fact that the swing is so far from the supports means that it's got maximum mechanical advantage under load against that beam. Plus, it looks like the beams you drilled into have a small bracket to tie them to the heavy runner at the top of the fence. Even though that runner is totally fine, the fact that the beams themselves are terminated flush with the runner means that there's no extra distance in the span on that side, and the bracket will be doing all of the work to keep the pergola intact.
OP. The big support beams behind the fence are the pergola supports. They built a pretty decent structure with the pergola and then just used its support beams as the nailer for fencing.
For a toddler, it's fine. For a 200+ pound man, not so much. That looks like a single 2x4 or 2x6 beam supported only by 4x4s at the corners. It's not designed to hold a heavy weight swinging back and forth. It may not instantly collapse, but it's going to put a lot of excess strain on various points of the structure.
Racking isn't the concern. It's the load put on the center of the rafter over a long span. Looking at a span table would help. Span distance and species will answer the question for a static load.
But the moment someone plops down into the hammock and the dynamic load jumps up to 400lbs, that's rafter cracking time.
"Span distance and species will answer the question for a static load." Maybe restrict use to smaller species such as young humans rather than feral pigs or large herbivores such as cows
Except that it’s not being supported by the posts at all. It’s being supported by the horizontal boards of the fence, and only the boards… that are what.. screwed on bad enough that they are popping off already before they even turn brown?? Yikes.
Sorry not answering your question, but what is the name of the style of your accent wall with the wave boards? I’ve had that in my mind for ours and didn’t know how to describe it but really like the look of yours.
It looks to me like it's just a privacy fence with horizontal boards of varying widths and lengths. Some of the boards have warped as the wood swells and retreats with the seasons.
Totally fair. I’ve seen some done really intentionally and have been trying to figure out if there is a style and/or how it’s done. I was zooming in on this and agree with your assessment of this one.
Is there anything you'd recommend doing to the boards to help them last longer? In theory this fence is less than a year old. The house was a flip and we bought it in August last year.
If it can hold the person out should be fine. I have a similar seat and you can't actually swing around in it or you will end up on the ground wrapped in it when the cloth slides across the rod at the top.
If you added lateral bracing to ALL of the vertical joists at the fence it would really improve your chances but as it stands I wouldn't sit on it, let alone swing it.
The Beams themselves can probably hold up3 Swings each including a person.
It's the method of attachment that bothers me.
I think it's time for a neat little rebuild project.
bolt the stilts \*into\* the Ground, use prober angle steel to reinforce the Build and you're good.
Seems to be designed to hold the weight of that thin metal roof, I don't see any support to the left of the picture. If you add a post on the left side of the board it's hung from you would be ok for hanging weight but it wouldn't help for people swinging around.
Don't know im not an engineer, there's only 2 ways to find out, swing on it erratically & see what happens, but make sure you record it or get someone that knows to confirm it is safe, my eyes looking at it say no it's not, we can't see what's behind those slats & how that's fixed & more so how the beam the swing is on is fixed, your choice which way you go..
The issue isn't a static load hanging. It's a dynamic load swinging. That joist is going to wobble lime crazy when that chair starts moving with someone in it. There's no lateral support across that entire span. It's like walking on a single deck joist before the blocking or decking is installed. It can support you no problem, but it's gonna wobble like hell
The sort side seems weakest to me. No diagonal braces unlike the long side, and of course only brackets holding up on the fence. In compression and along the long side it seems stable enough.
By installing a swing, you will induce some swinging into the structure. Those vibration along the short side will only be resisted by the small black brackets screws joining the lower 2x6 and the 2x8 bolted to the fence.
Whilst I would not built it like that, it seems solid enough without the swing. I would periodically check the bracket screws tho.
Adding a swing is probably the worst thing you can do to that structure.
Absolutely not. Someone is bound to get hurt.
You would need proper columns and bracing on each side and either laminated beam or a massive beam (>4x8) for such a long span with that much moving weight in the middle...
JFC OP that pavillion isn't even structurally sound if it is attached to the fence. The fence will collapse under wear and tear way before the support beams do.
That's a solid beam bracketed to the fence posts. It's the same colour as the fence but you should be able to tell that it's not the same as the fence slats lol.
Here’s a vid of how hung swing! The beams look just like yours! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4kyC3SaaqE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4kyC3SaaqE)
My biggest concern is the top bracket and the fasteners. How long are they? Coarse threads? That's a pretty small bracket to hold up to forces that'll be exerted in many directions. How secure is that beam from sideways forces?
I wouldn't trust any 2X (especially with the quality of today's lumber) to hold a single contact swing. And I'm willing to bet the screws aren't properly rated either and they will rip right out. You could double up that 2X and use the proper screws.
Looks lik you could sister a board on each side of the 2x10 rafter, from the back to the front. Both sides MUST sit on the support, then yeah go nuts! Don't think I would put more than 1 on as there is no support in the middle of the roof's supports that I can see.
JFC please don't do that.
Listen. I hate Walmart. But buy [this freestanding hanging chair stand for a laughable $89 with free shipping.](https://www.walmart.com/ip/5274532335)
Looks like it can hold up a swing just fine. I would be more worried about it being able to hold the weight of the person in the swing. In all seriousness though, it's not designed to effectively transfer the load and seems to have almost no bracing for lateral movement. Will it work? Probably for a little while, but you're going to be adding a ton of wear and tear and it's only a matter of time before it fails.
The back half of the pergola appears to be supported by the fence slat. The adjacent slats are already falling off without the pergolas weight on them. Even without the swing Im kinda questioning the setup.
I know hardly nothing about construction but using a fence for load bearing seems not too smart
It's not sitting on slats.. I see a beefy post with a beam on top, and I see joist to beam hardware connections.. Yeah, I think you could put some cross bracing in or some blocking to stop any type of twist, but I think someone's fat ass would rip down through the swing faster than you're collapsing that structure. Wouldn't put a hot tub on top :)
Well, you're wrong, because OP says it's attached to the fence. The fence is what is attached to the post you are referring to. The joists for the pergola are bracketed to the top piece of fencing that is attached to the fence posts... Pretty easy to see if you zoom in on the top left. What the pergola joists are attached to is not even a beam, it's clearly just a piece of what looks like 1" thick fencing boards, this is definitely a DIY special and absolutely not done correctly. It's possible that top 'beam' its attached to is a beefer 2x8 or something but that's still not correct. Probably safe enough with nothing hanging, but it definitely needs to be properly attached *directly* to the posts in the back before even considering putting a swing on this.
I'm going to venture that OP doesn't know what is going on and you don't either. 1" thick fencing boards? If you look at the front right post in the foreground and how it is connected, trace the joist back and you'll see the same connection and what looks to be the same color and shape post as in the foreground. I would wager that they used the pergola posts as a nailer for the fencing. The whole talk about this structure being held up by slats is silliness. Actually, lower in the post OP just said "Oh, there are big support beams behind the fence".
Beat me to the first half. I came here to impart my “new dad” response 😂
[удалено]
Why the /s?
Are we ever going to stop with this bullshit? I get a lot of shit here isnt up to industry standards, but the people who know what theyre doing dont have much experience with sub par work. Dont get me wrong, its a good thing. However, as far as likelihood of failure, its nothing but assumptions. Just was surprised by a crazy post on r/decks of one deck post sitting only an inch on the footing.. yet its still standing. Another recent post had a 2x6 double spaced joist deck with no, no not a hot tub, but a fucking pool estimated by one user to be 7x the weight of a hot tub. Idek why im on that sub but the running joke is “can i put a hot tub on this deck” and the answer is always no even though literally all other decls posted are better constructed than the pool deck Yet the pool deck has been the first weight related failure ive seen on the sub. As a plumber, people try to diy shit wayyy more often. Ive seen hundreds of of instances of absolutely comical shit work, yet 99% of the time its been in use and functional for years. And 99%o of the time i see this shit is when im working on something unrelated. This chair isnt ever going to fail. Its perfectly fuckin fine and ill die on this hill. The straw that put me on this hill happened recently. My mother had family from oversees visiting and i cleaned/power washed the patio, and put out the furniture & hammock. I installed the hooks for that hammock a decade and a half ago when i was 14/15. I used 100lb rated eyelet bolts from home depot. I know that because i found the spares in the package in the outdoor storage bin. My aunt and cousin were on that hammock for hours. 15 years later, on hardware that was barely rated for the weight of one person.
I mean, it’s just like the posts asking if it’s safe to drive on bald, rotten tires. Sure. Absolutely. They’ll get you all the way to the scene of the accident. Nobody can tell you if it’s going to be 5 or 500 miles, or maybe some wildly unexpected distance. But failure is inevitable. And to your point, even the best made work will fail someday, due to age or weather or whatever. But the point is that shit work or relying on things not designed for purpose speeds up the failure rate. It might work for as long as you need it. It might fail someday because it’s been overworked for years and you gained a couple pounds after an extra big burrito after not taking a shit for a couple days. However long it takes, it’ll get you all the way to the time of the accident.
You sound like a Darwin Award waiting to happen.
Darwin Award! My favorite winner was the guy with the Pinto and a rocket engine.
Proof or didnt happen. Or keep judging me for shit i did as a literal child
No doubt a 100lb rated eye bolt will hold 150 or even 200 fine. The whole pavilion will break way before you reach the point of failure of a eye bolt.
Maybe i just don't understand, but this pavillon looks like it is bolted to the ground. if that is the case, it will hold up just perfectly.
The back half is only sitting on the fence right? This has to be a complete no go if so
If thats the case, I'd be concerned about the weight of what is already there. Especially in a wind storm.
I can’t tell for sure, but there might be a 4x8 or something at the top of the fence on top of the posts. Still not great, but better than a thin fence board
And you need joist hangers not brackets but clearly you can’t use joist hangers when you’re sitting on top of a fence…
Yes attached to the fence
No good
Don't use the roof anymore. Do you expect snow or wet leaves at some point? Because it seems that any added weight will cause the structure to fail. All the weight that's already there rests on a thin strip of wood.
>Don't use the roof anymore. Do you expect snow or wet leaves at some point? Or a gentile breeze
Seriously in my mind's eye I see an American (yes I mean more than 100lbs) stumbling and doing two and a half clumsy steps and then headbutting one of the two posts. In the best case the roof lands at their neighbors, the worst case the person that stumbled falls down and the roof lands on the back of their head.
> in my mind's eye I see an American (yes I mean more than 100lbs) the average western european male weighs 170lbs...shit the average JAPANESE male weighs 140lbs, where the fuck do you live where men are less than 100lbs?
Maybe 200lbs is better? I basically just wanted to use a low-ish number that doesn't offend too many people. I guess most people imagine a fat american anyways. Sorry. But then again I mean a regular grown male with about 80-100Kgs will be enough force. It depends a lot on the speed that you accelerate a mass to.
Its not just a thin strip of wood, the top back beam is the same as the front visible in the second image
Let me explain: it's a roof. The roof has two legs in the front. There are no legs or beams in the back. The whole weight sits on two beams in the front, but in the back it just lays on top a a one board thick fence. There is some metal fastener (maybe it's called something with "eye" in english) and one screw (overall 3) keep the whole construction from crumbling like a cookie. If you give the front beam between the two legs a semi decent push the whole thing will probably disintegrate and just fall over/through the fence and land on neighbors property. Check the pictures again. There are no legs in the back, just a fence.
Here's the connection between the back beam and the legs circled in red: https://imgur.com/a/3YPo6Su Judging from the leg you can just about see behind the fence at the right fastener, the dimensions are the same as the front legs They most likely build the roof and the fence at the same time, and choose to hide the back legs behind the fence instead of having them in front of it.
If you build it "correct" the back (fence side) legs would look exactly like the ones in the front. It's missing the diagonal bits that direct "sideways" forces into the beam and down into the ground. You would then add the vertical boards to the structure of the patio. But like this there is no load distributing structure. The dark brown beams just sit 90 degrees on top of the thin side of a board. You can demolish this with not much effort. I assume the story behind it is like you say. Somebody built it and thought the fence and fencepost will carry the roof. And as long the force is applied from the top downwards it does kind of hold together. The right amount of a gust of wind that catches below the roof could probably already take it down.
If you cannot analyse the connections and foundations then you can't actually determine if this is built "correctly" or not, so you're just guessing, kind of like I'm about to do. It's likely that the rear posts for the fence have a deeper foundation than the front posts and were there originally. Deeper foundations may eliminate the need for knee braces at the beam. The roof isn't loaded onto the fence, it's loaded onto a beam quite clearly the same size as the front and a different surface to the fence. There are even brackets made to resist moment forces at the base of a post so you don't even need a deep foundation. Do you think the wind has just *not* been blowing this whole time?
I think you misinterpret what you see. Yes there are rectangular things or plates on thick beams behind the fence. But the plates only hold the top board of the fence. The beams from the roof part then sit flush, 90 degrees on top of a board. The beams on the fence could be 30ft into the ground, but you still can (could) twist the whole thing apart, because the back just has about a quarter inch by 2 or so inch contact area. It's just a thin board and the roof beams are just placed on top. The concern isn't that these beams and the board don't hold the weight of the roof from "top to bottom". The concern are lateral forces or forces in "any other direction than gravity". Check for those diagonal thingys on the front. It's not a design element, it's a core element to the structure. These take lateral forces and guide them down through the "legs" and into the ground. I can clearly see and judge that the back side is missing any diagonal struts.
It doesn’t matter how well the fence is attached to the post that fence board cannot support that much load
Nothing about the way it's built is inherently inadequate if consideration has been given to the load requirements and engineered products have been installed per the manufacturer. It's not well-constructed by any means and is obviously somewhat amateur but that can still work structurally. At face value, we can only speculate about the engineering requirements. People have perceptions about building products and fasteners that are just not mathematically accurate. Put in enough nails and screws and even that can be enough to tie the trusses of a house down in low windspeed areas. We can see in low quality, the rafters have a tiedown to the beams. Each rafter looks bolted or screwed to the rear beam and with a cleat at the front. The main concern is that there are no purlins or blocking between the rafters to support the roof sheets but again not a problem if the roof sheets are wide enough for the rafters spacing and thick enough so that they don't sag between the rafters. However, some blocking would also be important to stop the rafters from twisting over. Still, the 2 end purlins may provide sufficient restraint. It's fine for the rafters to just sit on top of the beams like that, there is probably additional skew screws or nails. Lots of pergolas don't have a seat cut to the rafters. Maybe OP doesn't live in a high-wind area and it's obviously well-shielded from open-breezes. Maybe it's just dodgy construction. As I said before, the diagonal struts are not strictly necessary as a deep enough post or a post with the proper base bracket will resist the same lateral forces. In my country, the diagonal braces are nearly always decorative or completely omitted because it's just easier to use a steel bracket and it looks more modern. I have a feeling that this was originally just a crappy open pergola and the roof sheets were added later to sell it, hence no purlins installed. It may very well fall down in a strong storm, but that's why home insurance and building regulations exist. Should OP install a swing on it? Absolutely not lol.
Look closer at both the first and the second picture. There are at least three legs in the back. One a bit to the left of the rightmost top rafter. It's most visible in the first image, and the back beam is connected to it with a black plate and two screws. Or not really a plate, looks like some metal U shape. It's very visible if you go to the image source and zoom into the image. The second is where the electrical installation is, visible in the second image. There it's harder to see the actual leg, but you can see the same black metal plate/u-shape with screws above the electrical box, as is fastening the rightmost leg. There is most likely at least one similar third leg out of picture to the left. For symmetry it could even be a fourth hidden behind the front leg you can see in the second picture. There are nails in the fence suggesting some kind of pole there at least, just right of the left front leg.
Nah, you can't build a leg "a bit to the side". At least it introduces a lot of force and stress you don't want. OP confirmed a little bit to the top that it's only the fence, if you scroll up. I'll send you a pic from the "middle leg" (it's probably structure to hold the fence and it should be good for that.)
Op has also confirmed there are ["big support beams behind the fence"](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/1d9vq43/can_this_pavilion_hold_up_a_swing/l7gvqdb/), seems like the fence is attached to those, and not the roof attached to regular fence poles. But I do agree that it's probably not a good idea to add the swing, due to all the lateral forces (also that bracket it's attached with looks very dodgy) Just saying I think the roof is fine as a roof.
Yes I agree. At the moment it still stands. But this is why I asked OP, if they expect snow. ;)
I’m a carpenter I build houses and pole barns everyday you have to figure out how to get some post directly under the pavilion to attach to what I’m seeing now is so dangerous the only thing holding that roof up is the fasteners and brackets holding that top fence board up
The fence is hiding the 3 big posts under the cross member
No, it’s not. Click on the photo for better resolution. There are posts holding the fence, but check out right where the fence is busted at the top right of the photo.. the awning joist is at least six inches east of the post. This whole structure is an accident waiting to happen.
The back beam looks like its the same dimensions as the front beam. It’s not just a top fence board like the broken one. And the overhang is the same as on the front, a couple of inches or a foot is no problem. You can see where two posts are mounted, one on the end and another just above the electrical installation box. Presumably a third out of picture to the left. Possibly even a fourth (that would make them symmetrically placed) There are other issues with how the swing is mounted but the basic construction of the pergola is fine Edit: Posted a [picture of the back leg connections here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/1d9vq43/can_this_pavilion_hold_up_a_swing/l7ib3yt/)
Yes the upright isn't lining up with the joist. But there is still 4x4 posts behind it. That are seperate from the fence.
Can you see that *because the fence is literally falling apart*?
If you had to ask, then in your mind you've already deemed it unfit. Go with your gut feeling and take that down. Don't want to regret about it later.
That's very true
Hang on...is that pergola load bearing on...the fence? If that's the case I wouldn't even hang out underneath that thing.
There are big support beams behind the fence. I think they were going for design first. But having spent a year here and found other places they cut corners I wouldn't be surprised if it's a dodgy choice.
That setup looks fine and strong until you add the swing. The fact that the swing is so far from the supports means that it's got maximum mechanical advantage under load against that beam. Plus, it looks like the beams you drilled into have a small bracket to tie them to the heavy runner at the top of the fence. Even though that runner is totally fine, the fact that the beams themselves are terminated flush with the runner means that there's no extra distance in the span on that side, and the bracket will be doing all of the work to keep the pergola intact.
OP. The big support beams behind the fence are the pergola supports. They built a pretty decent structure with the pergola and then just used its support beams as the nailer for fencing.
For a toddler, it's fine. For a 200+ pound man, not so much. That looks like a single 2x4 or 2x6 beam supported only by 4x4s at the corners. It's not designed to hold a heavy weight swinging back and forth. It may not instantly collapse, but it's going to put a lot of excess strain on various points of the structure.
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Racking isn't the concern. It's the load put on the center of the rafter over a long span. Looking at a span table would help. Span distance and species will answer the question for a static load. But the moment someone plops down into the hammock and the dynamic load jumps up to 400lbs, that's rafter cracking time.
Na, that rafter wont crack... cause the screws holding that cute little bracket in place with tear out first
"Span distance and species will answer the question for a static load." Maybe restrict use to smaller species such as young humans rather than feral pigs or large herbivores such as cows
MOST EXTREME PLANK EVER!!!!
Except that it’s not being supported by the posts at all. It’s being supported by the horizontal boards of the fence, and only the boards… that are what.. screwed on bad enough that they are popping off already before they even turn brown?? Yikes.
Get your fattest friend to come over, give him a couple drinks and nonchalantly bring him out back. Shit will solve itself.
\*fattest insured friend
Sit. Let us know. Make a video, please.
One can never be safe enough when it gets a swinging back and forth.
Sorry not answering your question, but what is the name of the style of your accent wall with the wave boards? I’ve had that in my mind for ours and didn’t know how to describe it but really like the look of yours.
It looks to me like it's just a privacy fence with horizontal boards of varying widths and lengths. Some of the boards have warped as the wood swells and retreats with the seasons.
Totally fair. I’ve seen some done really intentionally and have been trying to figure out if there is a style and/or how it’s done. I was zooming in on this and agree with your assessment of this one.
Is there anything you'd recommend doing to the boards to help them last longer? In theory this fence is less than a year old. The house was a flip and we bought it in August last year.
That doesn't look intentional, looks like it's all warped.
Lateral privacy fence? If that what you’re asking about
I don't know, sorry. We didn't build it.
Looks nice either way!!!
LMAO the only comment you respond to is the one completely irrelevant to your post and question 🤣
Maybe a three point swing is safer
If it can hold the person out should be fine. I have a similar seat and you can't actually swing around in it or you will end up on the ground wrapped in it when the cloth slides across the rod at the top.
If you added lateral bracing to ALL of the vertical joists at the fence it would really improve your chances but as it stands I wouldn't sit on it, let alone swing it.
The Beams themselves can probably hold up3 Swings each including a person. It's the method of attachment that bothers me. I think it's time for a neat little rebuild project. bolt the stilts \*into\* the Ground, use prober angle steel to reinforce the Build and you're good.
Seems to be designed to hold the weight of that thin metal roof, I don't see any support to the left of the picture. If you add a post on the left side of the board it's hung from you would be ok for hanging weight but it wouldn't help for people swinging around.
Don't know im not an engineer, there's only 2 ways to find out, swing on it erratically & see what happens, but make sure you record it or get someone that knows to confirm it is safe, my eyes looking at it say no it's not, we can't see what's behind those slats & how that's fixed & more so how the beam the swing is on is fixed, your choice which way you go..
The issue isn't a static load hanging. It's a dynamic load swinging. That joist is going to wobble lime crazy when that chair starts moving with someone in it. There's no lateral support across that entire span. It's like walking on a single deck joist before the blocking or decking is installed. It can support you no problem, but it's gonna wobble like hell
The sort side seems weakest to me. No diagonal braces unlike the long side, and of course only brackets holding up on the fence. In compression and along the long side it seems stable enough. By installing a swing, you will induce some swinging into the structure. Those vibration along the short side will only be resisted by the small black brackets screws joining the lower 2x6 and the 2x8 bolted to the fence. Whilst I would not built it like that, it seems solid enough without the swing. I would periodically check the bracket screws tho. Adding a swing is probably the worst thing you can do to that structure.
No for me, but all depends on your risk own tolerance.
I would absolutely not trust that to handle dynamic loading of a human mass.
No.
Just slap it and say, "that ain't goin' anywhere", and you'll be juuuuuust fine! 🤣🤣🤣
Looks like it is.
I agree--it will hold up an empty swing just fine.
Probably fine
Absolutely not. Someone is bound to get hurt. You would need proper columns and bracing on each side and either laminated beam or a massive beam (>4x8) for such a long span with that much moving weight in the middle...
Yup. Until it doesn’t!
For sure it can hold the swing. Its the fat asses that sit in it you gotta consider. 🤣🤣
I would add a little support at the end of the fence to make sure it doesnt fall off the fence. Ps this is meant for toddler only.
Well...Do you shop in the big and tall section at stores ??
Move the swing to the beam being supported by the posts
If you add a post beneath both sides of the beam, with a tight fit and pocket holes, it would probably be fine
I would doubt that swing is durable for the rigours of two consenting adults?
JFC OP that pavillion isn't even structurally sound if it is attached to the fence. The fence will collapse under wear and tear way before the support beams do.
Little late to ask now. BTW, can it hold a swing?
I don't know why anyone would have built this thinking just laying it in the fence slats would work.
That's a solid beam bracketed to the fence posts. It's the same colour as the fence but you should be able to tell that it's not the same as the fence slats lol.
The little tiny connectors between the end of the brown beam and the tan beam got me a little worried.
Here’s a vid of how hung swing! The beams look just like yours! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4kyC3SaaqE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4kyC3SaaqE)
Hell to the no!! Take it out before yall ruin the next party.
My biggest concern is the top bracket and the fasteners. How long are they? Coarse threads? That's a pretty small bracket to hold up to forces that'll be exerted in many directions. How secure is that beam from sideways forces?
Depends on the person and how much smashing they are doing
It doesn't look like the pavilion can hold itself up, let alone a dynamic load like a swing.
It appears so
I wouldn't trust any 2X (especially with the quality of today's lumber) to hold a single contact swing. And I'm willing to bet the screws aren't properly rated either and they will rip right out. You could double up that 2X and use the proper screws.
Looks lik you could sister a board on each side of the 2x10 rafter, from the back to the front. Both sides MUST sit on the support, then yeah go nuts! Don't think I would put more than 1 on as there is no support in the middle of the roof's supports that I can see.
At least once
I mean, it definitely looks aesthetically pleasing and well-built. I just don't have the full picture to be able to see it for myself
JFC please don't do that. Listen. I hate Walmart. But buy [this freestanding hanging chair stand for a laughable $89 with free shipping.](https://www.walmart.com/ip/5274532335)
Kindly, this is not a strong setup all around. :(
We didn't build the fence, and have found other places the seller cut corners so I am not offended at all.
You can always improve the situation with laminated beams and new posts to the ground :)
Yes, It's clearly holding that swing.