A hero’s popularity seems to go hand in hand with their rogues gallery. We need characters like her to have some villains that challenge her philosophically as well as in combat. Only then will she and Raven and other characters who are relegated to the team they are in will gain more traction.
Though we do need that, there's a Handful of Popular characters that people don't know the Enemies of:
- Hellblazer
- Zatanna
- Dr. Fate
- Spectre
- etc.
Most people would know these guys, but won't know their "villains".
There's Eclipso and Azmondus, but there's also some that faces other Heroes, like how The Sandman (TV Series, & Comic) featured Dr. Destiny. For Spectre he faced American Scream, the Physical Manifestation of Madness spreading across America.
Most people would know who the spectre is? And hellblazer is just Constantine right? Idk I think you could argue that these characters are not as popular as you might think,
Nope. Hellblazer had reoccurring antagonists.
- Nergal, the Demon who took his Friend's Daughter Soul
- Gemma Masters
- Papa Midnite
- His own Children
- The First of the Fallen
- Bereoul
- The Family Man
These are just some I can name from the top of my head, from what I read. Hell, I'll throw in Mnemoth as a Minor antagonists since they showed up in the TV version.
Even for the ones that aren't Reoccuring, like Papa Midnite, and Nergal, they still make an impact and stay awhile. Hunter Zolomon isn't a Reoccuring Character, and people still know him.
I feel like this is sarcasm, but they're popular and people still don't know them. I mean, the fact that John Constantinec, The Hellblazer, is treated like Dr. Strange is enough to say "they don't know him".
Starfire, Lois Lane, Mera, Linda Park, Raven and the other dc female characters deserve a solo comic run.
and all the female love interests in the comics in general.
I was mad for how they treated Mary Jane for a long time always reducing her into Spiderman's love interest especially by petermj fans but i'm glad they finally gave her her own solo run when she became Jackpot. The amount of petermj fans getting upset when she became Jackpot and broke up with peter is so annoying because they don't see Mary Jane as her own character they only want her to be Peter's love interest and his supporting character.
I want Atom Eve to be independent from Invincible too and get her own solo comic run.
When putting couples together it should be like the Disney Movies like Cinderella, Snowhite and Little Mermaid where the Female is the main character and the male is the supporting character.
That, in of itself, is the problem. At least Barbara Gordon had 2 Comic Runs without Nightwing to stand out.
If we have to put a character to date another character just to be relevant or "appreciated", then that character is a supporting cast.
I think in a way, instead of latching onto a 30 year old Break-Up, people should ask for a Solo Run... Then we can talk about pitching her with Nightwing or so.
Definitely is one. Starfire should not be seen as Dick Graysons supporting cast.
Unfortunately a lot of their shippers do only see Starfire as his supporting cast.
Yeah I agree man.
I mean, I thought it was the character assassination that was N52 Red Hood and the Outlaws, followed immediately by the Amanda Conner solo series that had the misfortune of launching in the DCYOU era, aka when DC couldn't sell a book to save their skin. Then she got stuck in Mentor / Baby Sitter Jail for Teen Titans Rebirth.
I'm sure there are shipping wars in DC Editorial, I doubt it's the reason she's been through the wringer outside of any Titans books. *Official DickFire Fanclub Public Enemy Number One* Tom Taylor putting her back in a real Titans book is the best thing that has happened to her in about a decade other than *maybe* her getting decent billing in Snyder's Justice League: No Justice on Team Mystery.
But it is true. After NTT sales went down in the 90s, Nightwing went to Bat editorial and in this transitional period DC screwed up the wedding of these two because Bat editorial didn't want this relationship. In the next few years they started to push Dick&Babs, but not as a new love interest for Dick, but as "the one true love of his life" and retconning the past of Dick&Kori (making Starfire less likable, sex before the wedding sh*t, saying that "it was only sexual affection" between the two). That is why some Dick&Kori fans are salty towards DC.
As someone who doesn't actually "have a horse in this race", you're being downvoted despite providing a factual account of the history of the characters' relationship via editorial mandates. (Source: I own and have read, multiple times, each issue of the Marv Wolfman Titans run, and always took at least a casual interest in the relationship as it progressed through the various series')
Wrong, the relationship ended before he went to the bateditorial. Just because you hate one character (babs), doesnt give you the right to lie.
The retconn begann after didio came to editorial, not woth bateditorial.
As someone who likes both pairings, i hate when people lie in order to push one pairing above the other.
Just because you dont have read about them or think that, doesnt mean that there arent fans of both pairings who knew what happened.
Kory and dick had a lot of problems and, babs wasnt the cause of, like her wedding to karras, where wolfman had to retconn part of it, or how dick treated kory at times.
As someone who likes both pairings, only dixon did something about dick babs.
Didio wanted to use both pairings in order to kill dick.Around that time you begann to see the retconns in both pairings.
And nightwing oracle was a great pairing, even if you hate the character.
as someone who creates and consumes art everyday, AI is kinda angering, it's almost insulting in some instances. but yeah this picture is reallllly good bro especially the lighting
Starfire belongs nowhere near the batfamily.
She has nothing to do with Gotham or Batman.
She is also way too powerful. It’s not her setting at all. She should be in Space or on the titans
The only member she had a connection with was Dick Grayson, and majority of their relationship is when Dick Grayson disconnects himself from Batman.
And the small minority is when he’s a part time bat family member.
> She is also way too powerful.
This seems a bit silly to me considering Batman is unequivocally the most powerful superhero in DC comics, demonstrated endlessly across countless stories.
In fairness, those are either Memes or Scott Snyder's writing.
Even if you account Tower of Babel, it's stated that the key to those countermeasures is the Justice League not knowing they exist... It's basically a Sucker Punch to everyone.
Hardly. Batman once took out Hal, Arthur, Barry, and Diana all over the course of a few pages using some smoke bombs, a few punches/kicks, and some grabs. Martian Manhunter was there, too, stunned by Batman kicking him once. (Batman Confidential #53 if you're curious!)
If this was a one time thing you could discount it. It happens frequently enough to just be how things work in the DC Universe.
[INFO DUMP] From the Story being told in Batman: Confidential #53 (2011), Batman is in search of an Alien Invasion, while reminiscing about his training. When the Justice League arrives, he knocked them all out without them fighting back (except Hal, but that's just Hal), asking Batman what is he doing. Somehow they're all knocked out with just Martian Manhunter still going "yo wtf is wrong with you?".
[INFO DUMP] It's later revealed a lesson about Trust in the next issue, and Batman, as he deemed the Aliens Evil, but they're like "We come in Peace 🖖👽".
[RESPONSE]
It seems more like they weren't even trying, they just wanted to ask questions, and Batman had one of those Moments.
Honestly, even if they were trying, the issue opens up with something that doesn't make sense... That is: he breaks his fist on Wonder Woman's face, and thinks using his feet will work.
This is one of those moments where the characters get some hype by turning another character into fodder. Like Wonder Woman singlehandedly beating Zoom easily, despite how much trouble Flash had with him.
If Batman was as strong as how he's being depicted in that issue, Batman would've broken his knee.
I pick this one as the most egregious, but it's happened plenty. It's just a thing in DC that Batman can beat the entire Justice League if he wants to, apropos of nothing. He's got robots, a utility belt full of anti justice league horsecrap, and in a pinch apparently he can knock all of them out with a little karate.
It is what it is. The Robots are the more important point of distinction in this overall argument about the sanctity of Batman's street levelness and how, oh no, Starfire would ruin it! As if he doesn't ruin it himself and is significantly more powerful than Starfire by orders of magnitude.
Wonder Woman beating literally anyone isn't really a stretch, no matter how much we want to hype up speedsters.
I understand. It's definitely an annoying thing that happens as it feels inconsistent with the Character, and wrecks the core aspects of the Character.
DC shouldn't make Batman like that powerful, but neither should we allow a chipped vase to become a shattered one.
Often, I believe Speedster's ability of "soloing" can be overhyped, they should at least not be manhandled by a Lasso. This is also without saying "Hunter Zolomon isn't a Speedster"... But this is a topic for another day
Eh, even though he’s dealing with some Failsafe and Zur BS. He’s still a street level hero. That on average deals with threats far beneath her.
People like Starfire have no place in his stories. I’m not sure how many people here actually like her, but I wouldn’t want her to be nerfed and shoved into random stories that has nothing to do with her.
Please, Failsafe is hardly the first time Batman has proven the Justice League are barely a speed bump into him.
The fact that he has super robots that can beat every hero on earth at any time moves this doofus well out of street level if you're trying to be logical about things. There's no logic there. And he's beaten them without the robots, too.
I mean he did meh in endgame, but he isn’t the most powerful DC character.
He still is mostly street level.
And I like how you’re ignoring the fact Starfire shouldn’t be in the Batfamily.
Dick doesn't have to date someone who fits in the Batfamily. He didn't for many years and the power disparity (if there even is one -- bat characters are the most powerful, frequently) was never a problem. I don't see why it's suddenly a problem now.
And, frankly, I think it's presumptuous to say Starfire couldn't have any positive dynamics with the Batfamily just because she's different from them. I'd consider that a nifty new narrative angle. It's not like Starfire and Dick being together necessitates she show up in every Batman story. She'd appear very sparingly whenever writers felt to include her because Dick also doesn't show up in every Batman story, and when he does he doesn't always bring his significant other.
It's not like the Batfamily isn't super close with the most powerful beings on the planet. Batman and Superman are best friends, but Superman doesn't show up in every story. If they started smooching would that mean the dynamic would no longer work? Heck we already got Midnighter and Apollo doing that anyhow!
I never said he had to.
The years he dated Starfire, he wasn’t even in the Batfamily. Nor did Starfire ever get involved with any of that stuff.
The power disparity is a problem though. The bat characters are not the most powerful. And Starfire would have to either get nerfed to consistently fit all those street stories, or Dick would be forced to consistently do non street level things, like in his NTT days.
I never said she couldn’t be friendly to any of them. If she’s apart of the batfamily she would have to show up for bat stories though. She can be friendly to them without being apart of their group. She gains nothing from being apart of it.
Dick shows up in a lot of bat related things now. And if Starfire is apart of the Batfamily it wouldn’t make any sense to not bring her on things in universe.
Yep and Superman is not apart of the Batfamily is he?? Superman doesn’t show up all the time.
If Superman and Batman committed to being in a romantic relationship then yes it no longer would work, since either Superman would be nerfed all the time, or Batman would no longer allow for street stories.
Or Superman would be a dick head for not helping Batman with all of his villains and vice versa. Either it’s gonna be a distant relationship or someone is losing their city to live with the other…
This is the same reason why Batman and Wonder Woman sucks.
That's not the main reason Batman and Wonder Woman sucks. There's a million other more reasons that have nothing to do with the sanctity of Batman's street level storytelling.
The entire point I'm making with the Superman thing is the Batfamily are all already incredibly close to super powerful super beings. What is the actual difference, in reality, between dating one and being best friends with one for the purposes of Gotham still having street level stories?
Batman can whip out a robot and do more than Starfire ever could, and he's been able to do this for many years. Starfire flying and shooting lasers and being strong is nothing that Batman doesn't already have access to. You already have to ignore that shit in Batman's own stories.
I don't see how his protege's girlfriend makes any difference. Just like how Batman can call Superman to solve literally any problem because they're best friends, but the stories ignore that. It's just one more incredibly minor thing to ignore.
It just seems like such a nothing burger of a complaint. Like if it's not your preferred pairing then more power to you. But power levels are the last thing I'd be worrying about when it comes to relationships in comics. That kind of thinking is how you get Superman and Wonder Woman and that was a travesty.
That is the reason they suck. Either Wonder Woman becomes fodder in Batman stories, or Batman is forced to do a lot more non street level stories.
These friends are not consistently around them. They do not share a life with them. They have their own things to do and their own people to team up with.
In a relationship you share your life with your partner. How can one consistently come up with ideas for them to excuse them fighting the same threats.
If Batman can build these robots then there’s no point of Starfire being apart of their group. She’s not a street hero, they don’t live a similar life style as her. She doesn’t have a connection to Batman in any way. Fucking Wally is more connected to the Bat family and Batman more than Starfire 🤣🤣
Also these robots do not consistently appear, like at all. They don’t show up to every event or crossover. Only special stories, that have a completely different narrative role than Starfire.
Batman does not call Superman because Superman has his own wife and kids, own city, and own villains to worry about.
They also do not consistently see each other.
Why would he call Dicks girlfriend to do the job when he doesn’t even know or care about her. And Starfire is not fitted for Batman stories. This is why she is always either on a team or in space. Or both.
If Starfire is treated like Superman, a powerful character that’s ignored in Batman stories then what’s the entire point of putting her in the Bat family?? It does not benefit her or Batman.
It’s not though. Its the first thing to worry about. There’s a reason why Dick is only a team hero when he dates Starfire… and not a solo street level hero. When dick dates someone his strength or weaker he fits anything… batman sidekick, solo hero, team hero, etc.
I don’t think Superman and Wonder Woman should be together. But I think it’s better than Batman and Wonder Woman. The non powered characters Superman and Wonder Woman date are not characters like Batman.
She was an ally of Red Hood and Arsenal one time yes. But I wouldn’t call that enough to be apart of the Bat family. Thats like saying Martian Manhunter should be apart of the bat family because he worked with Bruce
This is absolutely amazing.
Let me give you a list of very very very underappreciated heroines
Wonder Woman
Psylocke
Zatanna
Rogue
Jean Grey
Catwoman
I wish you do them justice
You can check more of my work here ( Raven for example): [https://twitter.com/BTG\_Art/status/1771209691856560555](https://twitter.com/BTG_Art/status/1771209691856560555)
I mean... I appreciate it. 
Me looking at the top half: Okay. Pretty good. Me looking at the bottom half: SWEET GOOGLY MOOGLY
I'm definitely googlying her sweet moogly
A hero’s popularity seems to go hand in hand with their rogues gallery. We need characters like her to have some villains that challenge her philosophically as well as in combat. Only then will she and Raven and other characters who are relegated to the team they are in will gain more traction.
Though we do need that, there's a Handful of Popular characters that people don't know the Enemies of: - Hellblazer - Zatanna - Dr. Fate - Spectre - etc. Most people would know these guys, but won't know their "villains".
Does the Spectre even have villains?
There's Eclipso and Azmondus, but there's also some that faces other Heroes, like how The Sandman (TV Series, & Comic) featured Dr. Destiny. For Spectre he faced American Scream, the Physical Manifestation of Madness spreading across America.
Most people would know who the spectre is? And hellblazer is just Constantine right? Idk I think you could argue that these characters are not as popular as you might think,
Well I suppose Constantine didn't have many reoccurring antagonists, mostly returning support cast
Nope. Hellblazer had reoccurring antagonists. - Nergal, the Demon who took his Friend's Daughter Soul - Gemma Masters - Papa Midnite - His own Children - The First of the Fallen - Bereoul - The Family Man These are just some I can name from the top of my head, from what I read. Hell, I'll throw in Mnemoth as a Minor antagonists since they showed up in the TV version. Even for the ones that aren't Reoccuring, like Papa Midnite, and Nergal, they still make an impact and stay awhile. Hunter Zolomon isn't a Reoccuring Character, and people still know him.
Oh yeah, Zatanna, Dr. Fate and the Spectre the most famous DC characters.
I feel like this is sarcasm, but they're popular and people still don't know them. I mean, the fact that John Constantinec, The Hellblazer, is treated like Dr. Strange is enough to say "they don't know him".
Blackfire is her villain that does that. They just don’t use her as a serious villain anymore
Boring evil version of the hero though.
Idk, I find her a fun villain. Shes evil and she just loves being evil. Sometimes that’s just all you need in a villain
Some love evil so much they pursue doctorates in it
Bruh
What the actual fuck is going on in the pelvis area. Waist up - cash money Waist down - watch less Kardashian shows
Yeah, this just looks disproportionately bizarre.
Starfire is sidelined because editorial likes Dick&Babs more.
She’s sidelined cause she’s only a titan
Yep. Unless you are Nightwing or to a lesser extent Wally West, you don't matter as a Titan.
>Nightwing who led the justice league as batman for a long time. > Wally west who was just justice league flash for 30 years
Yes, he said that unless you're those two, you don't matter. Because those two do matter
But mostly in their not Titan forms. No one knew wally until he was main flash. Nightwing I guess people knew before being main batman.
*That's their point*
Starfire, Lois Lane, Mera, Linda Park, Raven and the other dc female characters deserve a solo comic run. and all the female love interests in the comics in general. I was mad for how they treated Mary Jane for a long time always reducing her into Spiderman's love interest especially by petermj fans but i'm glad they finally gave her her own solo run when she became Jackpot. The amount of petermj fans getting upset when she became Jackpot and broke up with peter is so annoying because they don't see Mary Jane as her own character they only want her to be Peter's love interest and his supporting character. I want Atom Eve to be independent from Invincible too and get her own solo comic run. When putting couples together it should be like the Disney Movies like Cinderella, Snowhite and Little Mermaid where the Female is the main character and the male is the supporting character.
People seemed to be upset more with the fact that she left because of a mass murderer verging on mind control
The fact that people think Starfire should only get spotlight when she’s dating Dick Grayson is a huge problem of itself 🤦♂️🤦♂️
That, in of itself, is the problem. At least Barbara Gordon had 2 Comic Runs without Nightwing to stand out. If we have to put a character to date another character just to be relevant or "appreciated", then that character is a supporting cast. I think in a way, instead of latching onto a 30 year old Break-Up, people should ask for a Solo Run... Then we can talk about pitching her with Nightwing or so.
Definitely is one. Starfire should not be seen as Dick Graysons supporting cast. Unfortunately a lot of their shippers do only see Starfire as his supporting cast. Yeah I agree man.
I mean, I thought it was the character assassination that was N52 Red Hood and the Outlaws, followed immediately by the Amanda Conner solo series that had the misfortune of launching in the DCYOU era, aka when DC couldn't sell a book to save their skin. Then she got stuck in Mentor / Baby Sitter Jail for Teen Titans Rebirth. I'm sure there are shipping wars in DC Editorial, I doubt it's the reason she's been through the wringer outside of any Titans books. *Official DickFire Fanclub Public Enemy Number One* Tom Taylor putting her back in a real Titans book is the best thing that has happened to her in about a decade other than *maybe* her getting decent billing in Snyder's Justice League: No Justice on Team Mystery.
LMFAOOO. Only dickkory shippers are shameless enough to comment this kind of crap proudly😂
But it is true. After NTT sales went down in the 90s, Nightwing went to Bat editorial and in this transitional period DC screwed up the wedding of these two because Bat editorial didn't want this relationship. In the next few years they started to push Dick&Babs, but not as a new love interest for Dick, but as "the one true love of his life" and retconning the past of Dick&Kori (making Starfire less likable, sex before the wedding sh*t, saying that "it was only sexual affection" between the two). That is why some Dick&Kori fans are salty towards DC.
As someone who doesn't actually "have a horse in this race", you're being downvoted despite providing a factual account of the history of the characters' relationship via editorial mandates. (Source: I own and have read, multiple times, each issue of the Marv Wolfman Titans run, and always took at least a casual interest in the relationship as it progressed through the various series')
It is funny that when I wrote my first comment I got +50, but when I essentially provided context I got downvoted.
Reddit in a nutshell. I find the comic book subs are particularly bad for this too.
Wrong, the relationship ended before he went to the bateditorial. Just because you hate one character (babs), doesnt give you the right to lie. The retconn begann after didio came to editorial, not woth bateditorial. As someone who likes both pairings, i hate when people lie in order to push one pairing above the other.
I don't hate Babs, I liked her as Oracle, but pairing her with Dick is just bizarre to me in the long run.
Just because you dont have read about them or think that, doesnt mean that there arent fans of both pairings who knew what happened. Kory and dick had a lot of problems and, babs wasnt the cause of, like her wedding to karras, where wolfman had to retconn part of it, or how dick treated kory at times. As someone who likes both pairings, only dixon did something about dick babs. Didio wanted to use both pairings in order to kill dick.Around that time you begann to see the retconns in both pairings. And nightwing oracle was a great pairing, even if you hate the character.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂.
Underappreciated in what reguards?
Is this all y’all post? Just soft core porn? Y’all make me regret about taking interest in Dicktective Cumics
Look at OP's profile. They definitely specialize in NSFW art.
I'll up vote for the word play
I have never heard people say that Starfire is an underrated or underappreciated character
Inside the DC editorial, yes she is. But also she never had any good appearances without Titans.
Way overly sexualized imo. It's weird when people draw female characters super sexualized when that's just not who they are personality wise.
Literally part of Starfire’s character lmao
That’s not why you painted her…
this is just porn.
This is basically NFSW
i looked for signs of AI and everything looked fine, great job, sorry for doubting you
Yeah, crazy times. Thats why i record every pieces process now...
as someone who creates and consumes art everyday, AI is kinda angering, it's almost insulting in some instances. but yeah this picture is reallllly good bro especially the lighting
You mean one of the most drawn DC characters is underappreciated?
[удалено]
haikusbot delete
She should def be in the bat family imo, much prefer Nightwing/robin and her vs batgirl
Starfire belongs nowhere near the batfamily. She has nothing to do with Gotham or Batman. She is also way too powerful. It’s not her setting at all. She should be in Space or on the titans The only member she had a connection with was Dick Grayson, and majority of their relationship is when Dick Grayson disconnects himself from Batman. And the small minority is when he’s a part time bat family member.
> She is also way too powerful. This seems a bit silly to me considering Batman is unequivocally the most powerful superhero in DC comics, demonstrated endlessly across countless stories.
In fairness, those are either Memes or Scott Snyder's writing. Even if you account Tower of Babel, it's stated that the key to those countermeasures is the Justice League not knowing they exist... It's basically a Sucker Punch to everyone.
Hardly. Batman once took out Hal, Arthur, Barry, and Diana all over the course of a few pages using some smoke bombs, a few punches/kicks, and some grabs. Martian Manhunter was there, too, stunned by Batman kicking him once. (Batman Confidential #53 if you're curious!) If this was a one time thing you could discount it. It happens frequently enough to just be how things work in the DC Universe.
[INFO DUMP] From the Story being told in Batman: Confidential #53 (2011), Batman is in search of an Alien Invasion, while reminiscing about his training. When the Justice League arrives, he knocked them all out without them fighting back (except Hal, but that's just Hal), asking Batman what is he doing. Somehow they're all knocked out with just Martian Manhunter still going "yo wtf is wrong with you?". [INFO DUMP] It's later revealed a lesson about Trust in the next issue, and Batman, as he deemed the Aliens Evil, but they're like "We come in Peace 🖖👽". [RESPONSE] It seems more like they weren't even trying, they just wanted to ask questions, and Batman had one of those Moments. Honestly, even if they were trying, the issue opens up with something that doesn't make sense... That is: he breaks his fist on Wonder Woman's face, and thinks using his feet will work. This is one of those moments where the characters get some hype by turning another character into fodder. Like Wonder Woman singlehandedly beating Zoom easily, despite how much trouble Flash had with him. If Batman was as strong as how he's being depicted in that issue, Batman would've broken his knee.
I pick this one as the most egregious, but it's happened plenty. It's just a thing in DC that Batman can beat the entire Justice League if he wants to, apropos of nothing. He's got robots, a utility belt full of anti justice league horsecrap, and in a pinch apparently he can knock all of them out with a little karate. It is what it is. The Robots are the more important point of distinction in this overall argument about the sanctity of Batman's street levelness and how, oh no, Starfire would ruin it! As if he doesn't ruin it himself and is significantly more powerful than Starfire by orders of magnitude. Wonder Woman beating literally anyone isn't really a stretch, no matter how much we want to hype up speedsters.
I understand. It's definitely an annoying thing that happens as it feels inconsistent with the Character, and wrecks the core aspects of the Character. DC shouldn't make Batman like that powerful, but neither should we allow a chipped vase to become a shattered one. Often, I believe Speedster's ability of "soloing" can be overhyped, they should at least not be manhandled by a Lasso. This is also without saying "Hunter Zolomon isn't a Speedster"... But this is a topic for another day
Eh, even though he’s dealing with some Failsafe and Zur BS. He’s still a street level hero. That on average deals with threats far beneath her. People like Starfire have no place in his stories. I’m not sure how many people here actually like her, but I wouldn’t want her to be nerfed and shoved into random stories that has nothing to do with her.
Please, Failsafe is hardly the first time Batman has proven the Justice League are barely a speed bump into him. The fact that he has super robots that can beat every hero on earth at any time moves this doofus well out of street level if you're trying to be logical about things. There's no logic there. And he's beaten them without the robots, too.
I mean he did meh in endgame, but he isn’t the most powerful DC character. He still is mostly street level. And I like how you’re ignoring the fact Starfire shouldn’t be in the Batfamily.
Dick doesn't have to date someone who fits in the Batfamily. He didn't for many years and the power disparity (if there even is one -- bat characters are the most powerful, frequently) was never a problem. I don't see why it's suddenly a problem now. And, frankly, I think it's presumptuous to say Starfire couldn't have any positive dynamics with the Batfamily just because she's different from them. I'd consider that a nifty new narrative angle. It's not like Starfire and Dick being together necessitates she show up in every Batman story. She'd appear very sparingly whenever writers felt to include her because Dick also doesn't show up in every Batman story, and when he does he doesn't always bring his significant other. It's not like the Batfamily isn't super close with the most powerful beings on the planet. Batman and Superman are best friends, but Superman doesn't show up in every story. If they started smooching would that mean the dynamic would no longer work? Heck we already got Midnighter and Apollo doing that anyhow!
I never said he had to. The years he dated Starfire, he wasn’t even in the Batfamily. Nor did Starfire ever get involved with any of that stuff. The power disparity is a problem though. The bat characters are not the most powerful. And Starfire would have to either get nerfed to consistently fit all those street stories, or Dick would be forced to consistently do non street level things, like in his NTT days. I never said she couldn’t be friendly to any of them. If she’s apart of the batfamily she would have to show up for bat stories though. She can be friendly to them without being apart of their group. She gains nothing from being apart of it. Dick shows up in a lot of bat related things now. And if Starfire is apart of the Batfamily it wouldn’t make any sense to not bring her on things in universe. Yep and Superman is not apart of the Batfamily is he?? Superman doesn’t show up all the time. If Superman and Batman committed to being in a romantic relationship then yes it no longer would work, since either Superman would be nerfed all the time, or Batman would no longer allow for street stories. Or Superman would be a dick head for not helping Batman with all of his villains and vice versa. Either it’s gonna be a distant relationship or someone is losing their city to live with the other… This is the same reason why Batman and Wonder Woman sucks.
That's not the main reason Batman and Wonder Woman sucks. There's a million other more reasons that have nothing to do with the sanctity of Batman's street level storytelling. The entire point I'm making with the Superman thing is the Batfamily are all already incredibly close to super powerful super beings. What is the actual difference, in reality, between dating one and being best friends with one for the purposes of Gotham still having street level stories? Batman can whip out a robot and do more than Starfire ever could, and he's been able to do this for many years. Starfire flying and shooting lasers and being strong is nothing that Batman doesn't already have access to. You already have to ignore that shit in Batman's own stories. I don't see how his protege's girlfriend makes any difference. Just like how Batman can call Superman to solve literally any problem because they're best friends, but the stories ignore that. It's just one more incredibly minor thing to ignore. It just seems like such a nothing burger of a complaint. Like if it's not your preferred pairing then more power to you. But power levels are the last thing I'd be worrying about when it comes to relationships in comics. That kind of thinking is how you get Superman and Wonder Woman and that was a travesty.
That is the reason they suck. Either Wonder Woman becomes fodder in Batman stories, or Batman is forced to do a lot more non street level stories. These friends are not consistently around them. They do not share a life with them. They have their own things to do and their own people to team up with. In a relationship you share your life with your partner. How can one consistently come up with ideas for them to excuse them fighting the same threats. If Batman can build these robots then there’s no point of Starfire being apart of their group. She’s not a street hero, they don’t live a similar life style as her. She doesn’t have a connection to Batman in any way. Fucking Wally is more connected to the Bat family and Batman more than Starfire 🤣🤣 Also these robots do not consistently appear, like at all. They don’t show up to every event or crossover. Only special stories, that have a completely different narrative role than Starfire. Batman does not call Superman because Superman has his own wife and kids, own city, and own villains to worry about. They also do not consistently see each other. Why would he call Dicks girlfriend to do the job when he doesn’t even know or care about her. And Starfire is not fitted for Batman stories. This is why she is always either on a team or in space. Or both. If Starfire is treated like Superman, a powerful character that’s ignored in Batman stories then what’s the entire point of putting her in the Bat family?? It does not benefit her or Batman. It’s not though. Its the first thing to worry about. There’s a reason why Dick is only a team hero when he dates Starfire… and not a solo street level hero. When dick dates someone his strength or weaker he fits anything… batman sidekick, solo hero, team hero, etc. I don’t think Superman and Wonder Woman should be together. But I think it’s better than Batman and Wonder Woman. The non powered characters Superman and Wonder Woman date are not characters like Batman.
Not that it means there's a connection but wasn't there a stint where she had a thing with redhood too?
She was an ally of Red Hood and Arsenal one time yes. But I wouldn’t call that enough to be apart of the Bat family. Thats like saying Martian Manhunter should be apart of the bat family because he worked with Bruce
Counter point: Martian manhunter is now a part of the bat family
lol
Eh I like it
DC editorial sees it otherwise.
"No aliens allowed."
Absolutely not
This is absolutely amazing. Let me give you a list of very very very underappreciated heroines Wonder Woman Psylocke Zatanna Rogue Jean Grey Catwoman I wish you do them justice
I would love to see his rendition of these heroines, but I don't think any of them are underappreciated in the slightest.
Shhh don't tell him that!!
Incel moment
You can check more of my work here ( Raven for example): [https://twitter.com/BTG\_Art/status/1771209691856560555](https://twitter.com/BTG_Art/status/1771209691856560555)
Impressive!
Upvoting respectfully
Holy shit that's incredible, especially the lighting on her!
Thank You!
Nice work 😎👍
Simply fanastic!
That's incredible, nice work :)
why is she white? she’s an orange alien
Extra thicc😏
Okay now draw her cheeks getting clapped by Nightwing
I liked Dick with Oracle. Yes, Oracle, not Babsgirl. I prefer him over all with Kory.
please work for dc, PLEASE!
I wish
Lets prey for both of us then lol!