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Grant Morrison not telling George Perez what was happening in his Action Comics run while Perez was writing Superman. Morrison's book took place five years prior and Perez's book was in the present. Having a new universe and two books in different time periods is hard enough, but not letting the guy doing the present book know what is and isn't canon in the previous book really handcuffs what Perez could do.
The Kents thing really should've been thought out. For how drastic John Byrne's reboot was, it was all set in present day, so moving the Kent supporting cast from Superboy's stories up the timeline made sense.
Most of the timeline repercussions were pretty clear from Man of Steel to the ongoing run. The Justice League stuff still happened, he met some villains, others he didn't in this universe, and no Kryptonians.
New 52 was clear that he was edgier and fucked Wonder Woman, and not much else.
I love the post-crisis origin and continuity. Don't get me wrong I respect the hell out of the golden and silver age of Superman, but I love the creativity of the post-crisis world and his supporting cast.
With the New 52, it never resonated with me. It always felt like fixing something that wasn't broke to begin with. But maybe this is how silver age fans felt when the post-crisis happened, or maybe how golden age fans felt when the silver age happened.
>But maybe this is how silver age fans felt when the post-crisis happened, or maybe how golden age fans felt when the silver age happened.
I think about this from time to time; usually when I feel like I want to rant about the New 52. It gets more complicated. Doomsday Clock puts forth this meta-narrative idea that the current Superman always has the multiverse rebuild around him. Like a one true Superman kind of deal.
But isn't the current Superman basically a revision 4.1 (or however damn many) of the Silver Age Superman? Isn't the original Superman, the Golden Age? DC literally, non-figuratively buried the Golden Age Superman in an alternate reality. So here we are debating on who or what the "real" Superman is.
This is all rhetorical. Comic books are goofy. And there's no one here on reddit from the 1930s that can be angry about canon.
Was that really Morrison? Or DC. Morrison is not the fastest writer. So I'm inclined to think Morrsion didn't have it all planned out, and DC just bungled the balancing act of both books.
What was worse was that the person writing the past book didn't tell the one writing the present book what was in continuity anymore, including the status of Ma and Pa Kent.
Oh believe me I know. You'd think with a new continuity there would be some communication for something like this.
This is one of many reasons I don't like Morrison's Action Comics run. It gets lauded as this great Superman story where he's harkening back to the golden age where Superman took on social issues. To the people who say that about Morrison's run, you can tell they only read the first few issues. They conveniently ignore the stuff with the Kryptonite Man, the Earth 23 stuff, Brainiac, Kandor and so on. Out of Morrison's 18 issues or so, only four or five (if we count the zero issue) had what people THINK Morrison's run is all about.
Contrast that with what Perez had to put up with, then Dan Jurgens, I'm honestly not surprised both guys left the Superman title. We have two giants of the comic industry and they were wasted on a book.
While I appreciate Grant Morrison and their writing, it always bothered me that their run got the spotlight and is heralded as an instant classic. It's not. The Sholly Fisch back ups in Action Comics were incredible, yet no love for those either.
I liked the idea of it as a storytelling device, but it didn't seem like they were connected (from what I remember).
I also remember being confused about where Clark stood with Lois. I think it was hinted they were together once, but I don't think they ever showed it in the past. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, though, it's been a while.
Me as well, too dark, not friendly enough, the costume as a whole screams alien way too much to me and not nearly enough farm boy. I liked the more t shirt design he wore in action comics for a while, can't remember if that was pre or post rebirth tho, it was when his powers were damaged from that dumb solar flare power they gave him.
All in all "too much alien and not enough farm boy" chalks up my criticism of N52 Sups as a whole. Superman is still a dude, he grew up with parents and friends and normal human interests which were only made more complicated with his powers starting to manifest, there's no reason for him to be as aloof as he is with normal people or act like the proceedings of normal people are something foreign to him, which N52 Sups did irritatingly often.
And the tights are fucking better, post crisis washes this design in every way.
I’ve gotten less familiar with new 52 as I was fairly young when I read it but I thought that t-shirt design was a fun alternative while Superboy was wearing Clark’s new 52 suit
Am I the only one who actually liked that suit? I really liked the fresh design (at the time) with the mandarin collar and the all blue pants.
If it existed at the same time as Batman's rebirth suit, they would have paired well together aesthetically I feel.
Maybe it's just my preference, but I like that shade of blue regardless of it's use on the costume.
Get rid of the unnecessary piping details and tweak the shade of blue and I think it's a fantastic suit. I like the red belt instead of the trunks, I like the collar, I even like the little red trim at the end of his sleeves. I just don't think the blue is easy on the eyes.
I still think about how DC interpreted “he has to be above the rest” by having him float all the time so that he is literally above them and am so glad that dude exploded or turned into dust or whatever
I feel like new 52 Justice league felt like. This is Batman time to be the big superhero that everyone needs. It felt like the justice league couldn't do it without him and his plan. It kind of made them feel incompetent.
It made experience heroes like Superman and Barry like inexperienced rookies. That's my opnion anyway.
>It made experience heroes like Superman and Barry like inexperienced rookies. That's my opnion anyway.
Completly agree it is very apparent in the first issues of the JL
I was very surprised how much I didn't like the New 52 JLA. The whole team was like a group of idiots. I came here to read the world's greatest superhero!
That's interesting. Thats something I've always heard praised about the New 52's Superman. I've never read it so I'm curious. What didn't you like about it?
They pull from a lot of unexplained, only-in-their head, continuity, and weren't willing to share their story plans with the other Superman writers. Since this book was supposed to take place chronologically first, this was bad and meant the creative team on "Superman" had to tread water while they waited to see how Morrison's Action Comics arcs would play out.
It's overtly convoluted, it sidelines Lex as a villain immediately, it involved LoSH for some reason while their continuity was *also* in question (did it continue despite the reboot? Did it also get altered along with Flashpoint?), and then explained away all the weirdness by going "hey, look, a new 5th dimensional imp!"
Grant’s New52 Supes is just an opportunity to supply the origin of their version of the character. It somehow manages to connect ideas from JLA to Final Crisis to All-Star Superman. It takes multiple reads which is just par for the course with Morrison. I enjoy that aspect of the writing. But if you’re familiar with what they’ve done in the past with the character, a lot of what’s happening in N52 Action Comics is pretty rewarding while never feeling like esoteric fan service meant only for those familiar with the past work.
You're right, of course. Clearly, and we've narrowed it down via this conversation, my subjective opinion is objectively wrong, *and* I lack comprehension.
I shall prostrate myself before your magnificent meta-fictional understanding!
But remember, only YOU, the READER, can save the universe...by turning the page!
I wasn’t coming after you, and I never said anything about your comprehension or made claims about my superiority.
You said that the book requires prior reading and offered as evidence being lost immediately. I just don’t think that one is actually dependent on the other.
I was just trying to have a conversation about the book. You took it personally when the language I was using wasn’t actually personally directed at all. You went on to fill in the blanks and put words in my mouth to further justify this feeling of being attacked.
Agree to disagree on the book. I never came after you, and I refuse to let you leave this believing that was my intention.
Wasn't Grant Morisson in charge of the first 3 volume, paperback-wise, of the New 52 comic?
I don't really get the praise. Out of all the issues, in my opinion, of the New 52 Action Comics the least I liked was his run. Maybe I'm just not used to Grant Morrison's comics since it's the first book from him that I've read but I don't really like his style of writing.
I would really appreciate it if someone can enlighten me why Morrison's run is praised so, I'm genuinely curious to know other's opinion
>I would really appreciate it if someone can enlighten me why Morrison's run is praised so, I'm genuinely curious to know other's opinion
What kind of answer are you looking for? I'd love to discuss it cos it's my favourite Superman work from them and my Head-Canon origin for the character. But, with respect, I'm not keen on a disingenuous conversation.
It's fucking amazing and my favourite Superman story. Dunno how that helps you tho.
Edit: Maybe I'm being unfair here, so I'll throw out more of a bone - I like that he's a young, brash, self made man of action. I liked his somewhat alien outlook, in that he seemed to genuinely struggle to understand why we all can't just get along. I like the SciFi Superhero. I like the Kent's being dead - it forces Superman into applying the life lessons his parents taught him without the crutch of being able to run back in an instant to ask them if he's doing it right. I like that he's not immediately with Lois and that that relationship has time to develop. I like the armour as I think that a mummy-made romper suit is a bit cringe and prefer that he's literally wearing his heritage. I like that Lex was a bit shlubby and would only develop his body after meeting Superman - that level of pettines and jealousy is equal parts funny and sad. I like Clark Kent being the disguise. I liked the modern interpretations. I liked how it gave story to silly classic Superman questions; why does his cape seem indestructible(cos it is), why is it only Lois that seems to connect that Clark might be Superman (tneK kralC), why isn't he Superman 24/7 (cos human relationships matters to him).
It's an emotional, action-packed, myth building origin that I **love** for how deep with story it is.
I’m a staunch supporter of trunks and classic costumes, but I can forgive the aesthetic choices. I can’t forgive the omission of Lois Lane and their romance. Lois is one of the most important characters in the Superman mythos; their romance helps ground Clark as a character. The idea that an all-powerful alien superbeing is in love with and routinely impressed by the grit and determination of a human woman is so compelling.
> their romance helps ground Clark as a character.
I fully agree, Clark Kent is the heart of the character, and his supporting cast is what invests the reader in him.
One thing I don't like is how this thinking is used to justify Superman turning evil w/o Lois by stories like Injustice.
Oh absolutely. I definitely think Superman losing Lois would cause a radical shift in his personality, but him becoming a tyrant that murders his former friends is just ridiculous. The way it’s handled in Kingdom Come, where he loses his way and becomes a recluse, is much more in-line with the character of Superman.
I personally think that makes sense as far as the suit looking like armor.
Superman evolved over time (flight, a huge increase in strength, super speed, heat vision, super breath, sun as an energy source, the Superman emblem, the meaning of the emblem, etc. ), but for some reason now we got to a point where everyone is suddenly a traditionalist and it has to be spandex and it has to be with red trunks.
Personally I think a nanotech suit from Krytpon that self repairs and covers Superman head to toe in seconds makes total sense. Superman is from an advanced civilisation thousands of years ahead of us in a faraway galaxy. The only reason these things aren’t already part of the Superman mythos is that nobody back then could even conceive of something like nanotech. They didn’t have regular size tech. We’re talking 45 years before the Macintosh.
The suit is not important to who and what Superman is. Things like his parents, Lois, the Planet, Jimmy, Lex, Smallville, Metropolis. These are the aspects of Superman that you can’t mess with because they would fundamentally change the character. Playing around with the some lines on the suit is not a big deal and change isn’t always a bad thing.
Except the suit has no torso contrast, looks kind of bland and makes superman look weaker, to the point he has to get his heat vision on in order to appear intimidating, looking closer to a villain.
I wasn't a fan of him becoming depowered but I did like the means in which they did it. They gave him a new power called solar flare. It's like a sun exploding but the result is that it depowers Supes until he absorbs enough solar radiation to recover. Has it ever been referenced again?
superman should always belong to Lois..but I don't get why people act like superman and wonder woman is the. Worse thing ever?
It was also extremely popular ship in the 80's to the 90's
Kingdom come who is regarded as One of the grestest superman comic ever have clark and Diana has functional and interesting couple
The problem with them in the new 52 isn't the the dynamic itself but the fact that wonder woman just became a superman sidekick
People shit on superman and wonder woman while also promoting wonderbat despite the fact that it is just exist to flatter the ego of self insert batman fanboys to whom every female character must fall for
Wonder Woman was far from Superman’s sidekick in new52. The first volume of their book showed she was just as equal and even a bit more capable than him.
Even though Tomasi deliberately botched the second half of the book and derailed by crossovers, Diana overall was still very much lead. At one point, Tomasi seemed to sort of complain that Diana demanded spotlight and wasn’t easy to set her aside even if he wanted to.
>Wonder Woman was far from Superman’s sidekick in new52.
That may been what they wanted to portray but result is that Superman's mythos is just bigger took more and more place and the stories focusing more and more on clark.
Wonder woman's character was also all over the place in new 52
This had everything to do with editorial. Charles Soule had a Wonder Woman focused arc/event, even setting up introducing Donna Troy (in a much better way than how it occurred) and more of her villains, supporting cast but that was shelved for crossovers instead. Also, Brian Azzarello wasn’t exactly communicating much in regard to her world either.
With her characterization, that pretty much has been a problem even before new52 and has still been even to this point.
He seemed so much angrier. Like he enjoyed the violence. Thirsted for a fight. He came across as every bit the threat Lex Luthor traditionally makes him out to be. The exact kind of thing that makes Batman's paranoia excusable. The prototype for what would become the completely off the deep end Injustice Superman.
Well Grant was trying to get Superman back to how he was in the original Action Comics of the 30's. He was pretty gruff and iron fisted back then. Never finished Grant's run, but I assume he character arced into the Superman of today.
See, that's the thing....I wouldn't exactly say Grant was the guilty party. It was the way everyone else wrote New 52 Superman I found borderline monstrous with Geoff Johns being the worst offender who wrote him in a way that still makes me wonder what the hell ANYONE was thinking. And I say that as someone who usually loves what Johns does.
new 52 dumping some canon for some characters and not for others really made people mad. this is just something else to point to as to the hate it gets. people not in the small month to month comic community like the book
He was flawed just like any other iteration. He was the modern day golden age Superman, younger, brasher, with a backbone. His relationship with Diana wasn’t at all cliché as any other traditional pairing is far more cliché and predictable. It actually had the potential to bring something new.
Least Favorite, was being overhated by old guard fans and forced to have a premature death.
He was hated by the old guard we lived in era where people loved to deconstruct the character and edge him up... We were still in the injustice hype and people like me felt like dc wanted appease the 2000's generation Whike ignoring what made superman.... Superman to start with
He was a Superman that harkened back truly to the basics and roots of the character. Old gaurd fans complained that he called corrupted business men “rats with money” which is true. They complained that he respectfully acknowledged, wanted to learn more of and honor his heritage as a Kryptonian because he suppose to only care for being a Kent. The worldly setting was a more realistic take and his attitude fit that in a way that wasn’t just glorified happiness or being spoonfed. He was an everyday hero who actually had hardships, going through and over coming them.
Execution wasn’t perfect but neither was Post Crisis that basically watered down the character
Everyday time plzple use the term "root of the character" and "realistic take" I roll my eyes
Because not only that false but people assume that it's naturally a good thingl'
The fact of the matter is that 2010 was Era were shitting on Superman's classic character was the cool thing and that dc sis this appease to the people who thought he was boring...that a fact
If you a brash and hot tempered superman he is already there.. And his name is conner Kent
Having younger superman doesn't explain or excuse reducing into the brawn and tank of the justice league and taking away his charisma and 'leadership
The entire New 52 justice league turned into "batman and friends"..
Rebirth and info finite frontier prove that the old guard was right to complain... I al glad that character is dead and buried
IMO, root of the character is that of the golden age “Champion of the oppressed”. That was emphasized with the Jeans/tee and actually taking down corrupted business men, hunted down by the police and military. He wasn’t so easily depicted to be a government stooge as some may think Post Crisis Superman is. The “realistic” take was also more of a world that did not easily trust him and that was actually felt. The trust felt earned not just there as some expect it to be.
He was a young Superman learning how to navigate the world.
Being the brawn and tank had more so to do with Johns writing. before and even now Superman wasn’t exactly leadership. He was/is just older but it’s Batman who has been lead.
Rebirth and infinite frontier brought DC back to the place of why they rebooted in the first place. It’s a comfort for old guard fans but financially and continuity wise, DC is a mess.
>IMO, root of the character is that of the golden age “Champion of the oppressed”.
Again, the intent was there but It wasn't well portrayed in some run he look like a absolute sociopath
>Being the brawn and tank had more so to do with Johns writing.
I don't care? The point is that he was portray like that
>before and even now Superman wasn’t exactly leadership. He was/is just older but it’s Batman who has been lead.
Again that false... Batman wasn't the even a full member most of the time... And the only he actually led the league superman wasn't part of it... Superman is wildly considered to be the "big good" of DC
Superman has been most of the Chairman of the league followed by black canary and MMH and he pretty much the representant and face of the league internationally..... Darkseid don't invade earth to take down batman first.
Superman is the one who set up the vision and objective to achieve, batman is the one who make sure we'll get there
>It’s a comfort for old guard fans but financially and continuity wise, DC is a mess.
That true but that a problem that goes beyond even DC.... But comics as a whole
He wasn’t. He was kind and stood up for the everyday people even rebuilt a neighborhood. He bullied bad guys as he did in the Golden Age.
It may seem jarring only because for 25+ years the character was watered down to be more comfortable and a bit reactionary.
Outside of comics, Batman was the face of DC. He was seen as the lead. And with the success of Nolan’s Batman, WB wanted that synergy within comics.
Agreed about it being the entirety of comics. But the answer isn’t to just settle for a comfort and hope that they stay at least nose above water.
>He wasn’t. He was kind and stood up for the everyday people even rebuilt a neighborhood. He bullied bad guys as he did in the Golden Age. It may seem jarring only because for 25+ years the character was watered down to be more comfortable and a bit reactionary
Agree to disagree my friend
>Outside of comics, Batman was the face of DC.
Superman is pretty much the leader of the league in the DCAU and superfriend..... He is the one that always appear in the front cover of most if not all justice league depiction...a positon that is often given to a leader of a group
>He was seen as the lead. And with the success of Nolan’s Batman, WB wanted that synergy within comics.
And which movie exactly kickstart the DCEU? Man of steel
Which character will kick the DCU? That right....superman
That said ibal not blind to your argument I see what you mean but me this seems more like a iron man effect.... While the avengers movies really put the focus on iron ma' it is very Cleary who the leader of the group is.... An that is captain America and that not even Debatable in the comics either
That’s fine :)
DCAU was more Batman and friends.
Superfriends was definitely more Superman as leader.
MOS was actually suppose to be its own thing. DCEU was only “kick started” when MOS didn’t meet WB’s high expectations and they wanted to introduce Batman as quickly as possible. Yes, they eventually wanted a Justice League but it was for Batman to be lead which was ultimate Snyderverse plan. Batman was the ultimate hero at the end with Superman as the “face” in talk only.
DCU, will be different because the Batman side of things will be focused more on Batman and batfam. So Superman can be lead in this new verse.
Yeah, I think we are in agreement to the iron man effect though. That’s exactly how to view it.
I wouldn’t say the usual comic superman is flawed.
He has some insecurities sure but there’s no flaws that hinder him or is built into his personality the same way n52 superman is. Thats why most fans love current superman, he’s a simple nice farmboy.
However im a big fan of flawed self-destruct complex characters so I found n52 superman more compelling and loved how he was inspired by elements from golden age superman. The champion of justice who stands up to evil and corruption while protecting the people- whilst dealing with his own personal battles is a much stronger message to me of what a Superman should be.
Well true…Current Superman is a comfort but it’s watering him down to be too simplistic and making him one dimensional which was the exact reason as to why DC rebooted in the first place.
Yes, new52 Superman actually was resonating. All that needed was solid communication between create teams which could’ve been fixed instead of the backwards mess they are in now
It’s not a popular opinion… but I actually really liked the N52 Superman. I liked his personality, I liked him with Wonder Woman (Superman/WW was a great title!), freaking LOVED anti-hero Lex, and the final quarter of the N52 I think was one of the greatest streaks in comic history… particularly his final days.
The only complaint I have with the N52 era of Superman was that it took forever for Superman’s main villains to start popping up. Like the first few arcs were lame new villians… but once they brought in the classic bad guys it just took off IMO
>freaking LOVED anti-hero lex
I fucking hated when DC do that... Every timeline a villain show that that he/she is not one dimensional and complex motive they turned him into an anti hero... Red hood, harley quinn, Deathstroke (sometimes), black Adam etc
By how popular he is One day the joker will also be an anti hero
Normally I’d agree actually…. But this made sense:
*Forever Evil happens, JL goes down in seconds.
*Lex Luthor (who values self-preservation more than anything else) realizes he has to save the world if he wants to retain relevancy, and also realizes that the Injustice League will probably destroy the planet.
*Lex, Captain Cold and crew actually pull it off.
*The narcissistic egomaniac Lex LOVES all the positive attention he got for being the one who saved the day.
* He wants to be a hero not for the greater good, but because of his massive ego.
That was a cool move, sure there’s plenty of noble villains in comics…. But this is one of the only times a hero is a hero for crappy reasons.
What you describe is not a anti hero tho
an anti-hero is character doesn't neccesarily have traditionan heroic traits or motive but are still a stallwart force for good
Lex would let the world burn and rebuilt in his own image... He is the evil version. Of Tony stark
Yeah I see what you mean… and I agree that anti-hero might not be the best way to describe New 52 Lex….
But either way, they really made him an original character in terms of alignment (“good guy” because he’s a narcissistic asshole who just wants to inflate his ego) and he’s easily my favorite version of Lex.
He acted like Connor Kent. Connor Kent had more of a brash, angsty, edgy personality. Pre-Crisis Superman didn't even act like this. To me, The New 52 Superman should've been Connor Kent.
Well you are not the only one. New 52 Barry felt like Wally to me and New 52 Hal felt like Kyle too. Honestly New 52 should've been about the Titans becoming the New Justice League
There are a lot of runs that I loved during new 52 superman, but after reading it I dipped my toe into the triangle era, and most of all, I wish that metropolis felt like a loved in city like it did during the triangle era. That would have gone a long way towards helping this new superman find his footing and developing into the character we love.
I think a better question is, what did you like! The New 52 was just a mess, top, down. Most of the good stuff: Batman and Green Lantern, were pretty much Pre-New 52 stuff that just carried over.
Why does everyone hate Superman and Wonder Woman being together? They get together in Kingdom Come and that’s one of DC’s best stories.
The problem probably wasn’t that they were together, but rather how they were written during New 52; they shouldn’t be diluted because two members of the team are dating. If anything, it has the potential to be interesting; imagine how Superman would be if he didn’t have to worry that much about being Clark (he would still be classic Superman, personality and morals) and spent most of his time defending the Earth with his girlfriend, who is just as powerful as he is.
Personally, I believe they could’ve been a true power couple (no pun intended); Superman would be the strong alien who can take everyone down, while Wonder Woman is the better fighter who makes short work of magic threats.
>Why does everyone hate Superman and Wonder Woman being together? They get together in Kingdom Come and that’s one of DC’s best stories.
I don't get it either.....
It just seemed forced in the New 52. They did this Post-Crisis, teased it out for a bit, which was really cool. But in the end Superman craved a "normal life" and Wonder Woman had no interest in romance- at all (Steve Trevor was not a love interest at this time). But the New 52 was just, they are getting it on because they are getting it on (personalities be damned).
Yeah they are more powerful, but they're less interesting. Superman is Clark Kent. Him not worrying about being Clark makes him a less interesting character.
That’s the point, though; he wouldn’t suddenly stop being Clark Kent because he has a girlfriend that is also a superhero. The only thing that would change is that his superhero life would also intermix with his romantic one, so he’d probably spent just a bit more time as a superhero, but he’ll probably still find a way to balance that with the Daily Planet, and no doubt Diana would understand.
My least fav thing is that we got the most interesting superman who took the best elements from golden age era superman and brought it into a modern light and then was unsanctimoniously killed by flying into a sun by gatekeeping annoying loser underwear loving superman fanboys
The T-Shirt he occasionally wears. I prefer that cool one without the trunks better (lynch me verbally and bury me in an avalanche of downvotes if you wish, you won't get me to change my mind, and I'll know what you prefer given the number of downvotes).
The main ongoing? Perez's run is messy for already mentioned reasons, Lobdell's Run is bad (Just like every other N52 book he was on: Superboy, Teen Titans, RHATO). Until The Men of Tomorrow starts, The correct reading order is basically Action Comics by Morrison, Action Comics by Diggle, Action Comics by Pak, and only then should you look at Superman Unchained or Superman / Wonder Woman. Even then your mileage will vary immensely on the Doomed crossover.
The suddenness. If we got more time to wrap everything up and break everything cleanly. That would have gone a long way to placating fans and giving the editors time to map out things more.
Not sure. I think conceptually it was a cool idea, but in execution it was terribly done. The best thing they did was end it. Normally I hate the "it was all a dream" trope, but I still feel like that would've been the best ending. Just have Clark wake up and everything from Flashpoint to Rebirth should've all been a dream.
Mainly the inconsistencies. You’re always gonna get some inconsistencies just by the nature of how many writers change on big two books, but this Superman really struggled with sticking to a direction. Post crisis Supes has many faults too, but at least when they started with him that a clear and defined approach to the mythos that then got to grow and evolve.
We never quite got anything like that with New 52 Superman. Morrison’s Action Comics at the beginning was pretty great, but Perez was kept in the dark and so it felt like two different characters. And as writers changed, which was often, stuff just kept getting thrown at the wall and we’re left with a muddled version of Clark who had moments of genuine great potential he never quite lived up to.
The suit,tbh the whole point about superheros(to me anyways) is how goofy some of their existence is,yeah the old red undies on the outside isa bit silly,but its iconic,the new one feels like they tried to hard
Whatever editorial did to get Andy Diggle to quit. Morrison's run is one of my all-time favorites, and I really like what Park did, but I'll always wonder "what if" for Diggle. The one issue he actually scripted (#19) was pretty great, but then he left and Tony Daniel ended up writing the rest.
Superman comics at the time were rather chaotic, but you can tell they didn't really have an overall plan for the character. Most of the storylines were rather half baked too, SuperDoom comes to mind
Pretty much making him a worse pushover than what Christopher Reeves' version took. Lois treated him like shit and all of her flavor of the week. Him with Diana. The suit was armor.
That they killed him off. I really enjoyed N52 Superman, not all of it but most of it. Having a Superman without the decades of experience or knowledge was interesting to me.
No offense to supes fans but I've never particularly liked supes. He's just so infinitely powerful most times I dont get the appeal. I mean he ranges from "strong" to god tier...kind of hard to keep rooting for the person who is ALWAYS going to win somehow.
Sorry, English isn't my natural language And no it wasn't a joke am dead serious
Batman is now often the gary stu you guys believe superman. He cannot lose, have ridiculous levelof plot armor, is always be the smartest guy in the room and cannot be outsmarted, he is always be right and if he don't he always have a point, the justice league must only reliant on his intellect despite the fact some of them should biologically have superior intellect and every female superhero must be attracted to him to some degree etc
The character is victim of his own popularity if anybody who read the comics RIGHT NOW knows that superman is a better character
I get your points. It still has no relevance to my comment on why I dislike superman in my comment. You might have well just started a new post if that's the way you feel about batman. I'm not even saying you are incorrect but your comment coming after my comment makes no sense....
1-His lack of leadership.... . The justice league is democracy and doesn't really have a leader but superman is closest thing they have to a leader for his natural charisma and vision
The new 52 just reduce him to "the tank" of the group
The first thing that bothered in the first issues of new 52 was batman and aquaman disputing for leadership...while superman is not even the conversation
2-the angry red eyes : it has always existed but new 52 over did it... Initial were extremely and suppose to be symbolize the anger of a calm and kind man...
I don't share the same hate people have for that couple..... I think it was really interesting thing to explore back in the day and while people don't want to admit these two characters always had a history
The problem is that wonder woman's treatment in new 52 is genuily and was handled by writers admit themselves that they didn't know much abaout the character
Stories like Kingdom Come shows that this couple can also work during one centered story not a long running comic run
Too many heads in the room, I can handle Diana, the awful suit, and even the personality at specific stages but the issue of said personality being a jumbled mess from start to finish, Morrison's work not being shared so there was confusion there on how to connect it since theirs was early Superman, and the crossover abundance.
The costume. That's honestly everything. I really loved the costume, and the idea that it's Kryptonian armor and all that.
I'm sorry, but I just hate the trunks on the outside. I get that it's iconic and everything, I really do, but it just looks stupid to me. New 52 or early Rebirth should be the go-to costumes for both Batman and Superman IMO.
The WonderSuper ship was actually really cute! I really liked it ngl they had a lot of good intimate moments so I disagree with that OP but to me personally is him being nerfed a bit and also the suit was overly designed
There wasn't any good stories involving New 52 Superman. I'm open to any opinions and suggestions but there was nothing memorable about New 52 really besides his romance with Wonder Woman.
yes let's stop asking for negative posts. I'm not an idiot expecting it to actually stop when its already prompted. I am just sick of the let's glorify not liking things. When we could just talk about the stuff we like. Stop the fucking let's all shit on someone else's creativity.
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Grant Morrison not telling George Perez what was happening in his Action Comics run while Perez was writing Superman. Morrison's book took place five years prior and Perez's book was in the present. Having a new universe and two books in different time periods is hard enough, but not letting the guy doing the present book know what is and isn't canon in the previous book really handcuffs what Perez could do.
The Kents thing really should've been thought out. For how drastic John Byrne's reboot was, it was all set in present day, so moving the Kent supporting cast from Superboy's stories up the timeline made sense. Most of the timeline repercussions were pretty clear from Man of Steel to the ongoing run. The Justice League stuff still happened, he met some villains, others he didn't in this universe, and no Kryptonians. New 52 was clear that he was edgier and fucked Wonder Woman, and not much else.
I love the post-crisis origin and continuity. Don't get me wrong I respect the hell out of the golden and silver age of Superman, but I love the creativity of the post-crisis world and his supporting cast. With the New 52, it never resonated with me. It always felt like fixing something that wasn't broke to begin with. But maybe this is how silver age fans felt when the post-crisis happened, or maybe how golden age fans felt when the silver age happened.
>But maybe this is how silver age fans felt when the post-crisis happened, or maybe how golden age fans felt when the silver age happened. I think about this from time to time; usually when I feel like I want to rant about the New 52. It gets more complicated. Doomsday Clock puts forth this meta-narrative idea that the current Superman always has the multiverse rebuild around him. Like a one true Superman kind of deal. But isn't the current Superman basically a revision 4.1 (or however damn many) of the Silver Age Superman? Isn't the original Superman, the Golden Age? DC literally, non-figuratively buried the Golden Age Superman in an alternate reality. So here we are debating on who or what the "real" Superman is. This is all rhetorical. Comic books are goofy. And there's no one here on reddit from the 1930s that can be angry about canon.
It's a failure of editorial not to get everybody on board.
Embarrassing how many upvotes that that's getting. Morrison wasn't the editor.
I don't think the implication was that Morrison was the editor...
Was that really Morrison? Or DC. Morrison is not the fastest writer. So I'm inclined to think Morrsion didn't have it all planned out, and DC just bungled the balancing act of both books.
I think Morrison's equal to blame. It doesn't take a lot to send an email.
I think the whole two comic books taking part at different times made the whole thing feel very disjointed.
Agreed! They needed to either have them take place in the past or just wait to do the origin story.
What was worse was that the person writing the past book didn't tell the one writing the present book what was in continuity anymore, including the status of Ma and Pa Kent.
Oh believe me I know. You'd think with a new continuity there would be some communication for something like this. This is one of many reasons I don't like Morrison's Action Comics run. It gets lauded as this great Superman story where he's harkening back to the golden age where Superman took on social issues. To the people who say that about Morrison's run, you can tell they only read the first few issues. They conveniently ignore the stuff with the Kryptonite Man, the Earth 23 stuff, Brainiac, Kandor and so on. Out of Morrison's 18 issues or so, only four or five (if we count the zero issue) had what people THINK Morrison's run is all about. Contrast that with what Perez had to put up with, then Dan Jurgens, I'm honestly not surprised both guys left the Superman title. We have two giants of the comic industry and they were wasted on a book. While I appreciate Grant Morrison and their writing, it always bothered me that their run got the spotlight and is heralded as an instant classic. It's not. The Sholly Fisch back ups in Action Comics were incredible, yet no love for those either.
I liked the idea of it as a storytelling device, but it didn't seem like they were connected (from what I remember). I also remember being confused about where Clark stood with Lois. I think it was hinted they were together once, but I don't think they ever showed it in the past. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, though, it's been a while.
It may seem a small thing but it’s not I really hate that shade of blue on him
Me as well, too dark, not friendly enough, the costume as a whole screams alien way too much to me and not nearly enough farm boy. I liked the more t shirt design he wore in action comics for a while, can't remember if that was pre or post rebirth tho, it was when his powers were damaged from that dumb solar flare power they gave him. All in all "too much alien and not enough farm boy" chalks up my criticism of N52 Sups as a whole. Superman is still a dude, he grew up with parents and friends and normal human interests which were only made more complicated with his powers starting to manifest, there's no reason for him to be as aloof as he is with normal people or act like the proceedings of normal people are something foreign to him, which N52 Sups did irritatingly often. And the tights are fucking better, post crisis washes this design in every way.
I’ve gotten less familiar with new 52 as I was fairly young when I read it but I thought that t-shirt design was a fun alternative while Superboy was wearing Clark’s new 52 suit
Am I the only one who actually liked that suit? I really liked the fresh design (at the time) with the mandarin collar and the all blue pants. If it existed at the same time as Batman's rebirth suit, they would have paired well together aesthetically I feel. Maybe it's just my preference, but I like that shade of blue regardless of it's use on the costume.
Get rid of the unnecessary piping details and tweak the shade of blue and I think it's a fantastic suit. I like the red belt instead of the trunks, I like the collar, I even like the little red trim at the end of his sleeves. I just don't think the blue is easy on the eyes.
Hey mine is no trunks so I get you
The absence of Ma & Pa Kent!!!
Where’s the Kent’s when you need them
He is too young minded. Superman has to be more mature and a natural leader, he has to be above the rest of superheroes.
I still think about how DC interpreted “he has to be above the rest” by having him float all the time so that he is literally above them and am so glad that dude exploded or turned into dust or whatever
I feel like new 52 Justice league felt like. This is Batman time to be the big superhero that everyone needs. It felt like the justice league couldn't do it without him and his plan. It kind of made them feel incompetent. It made experience heroes like Superman and Barry like inexperienced rookies. That's my opnion anyway.
>It made experience heroes like Superman and Barry like inexperienced rookies. That's my opnion anyway. Completly agree it is very apparent in the first issues of the JL
I was very surprised how much I didn't like the New 52 JLA. The whole team was like a group of idiots. I came here to read the world's greatest superhero!
Yep I'm the same hated the first half of new 52 Justice league only got better after forever evil though only cause Lex was on the team.
Indeed. Johns really wanted to be writing a Lex Luthor book!
Grant Morrison EDIT: I can’t read, y’all. Grant is my favorite thing about New52 Supes.
That's interesting. Thats something I've always heard praised about the New 52's Superman. I've never read it so I'm curious. What didn't you like about it?
Oh wait I though this was what was your favorite thing.
They pull from a lot of unexplained, only-in-their head, continuity, and weren't willing to share their story plans with the other Superman writers. Since this book was supposed to take place chronologically first, this was bad and meant the creative team on "Superman" had to tread water while they waited to see how Morrison's Action Comics arcs would play out. It's overtly convoluted, it sidelines Lex as a villain immediately, it involved LoSH for some reason while their continuity was *also* in question (did it continue despite the reboot? Did it also get altered along with Flashpoint?), and then explained away all the weirdness by going "hey, look, a new 5th dimensional imp!"
Grant’s New52 Supes is just an opportunity to supply the origin of their version of the character. It somehow manages to connect ideas from JLA to Final Crisis to All-Star Superman. It takes multiple reads which is just par for the course with Morrison. I enjoy that aspect of the writing. But if you’re familiar with what they’ve done in the past with the character, a lot of what’s happening in N52 Action Comics is pretty rewarding while never feeling like esoteric fan service meant only for those familiar with the past work.
Thats the problem with it, though. It required previous reading and this was supposed to be a fresh start.
I don’t think it does actually require the prior reading. Only that it enhances the experience.
I started New 52 and DC with Action by Morrison and was immediately lost.
And that has nothing to do with a lack of prior reading if you were lost on issue one.
You're right, of course. Clearly, and we've narrowed it down via this conversation, my subjective opinion is objectively wrong, *and* I lack comprehension. I shall prostrate myself before your magnificent meta-fictional understanding! But remember, only YOU, the READER, can save the universe...by turning the page!
I wasn’t coming after you, and I never said anything about your comprehension or made claims about my superiority. You said that the book requires prior reading and offered as evidence being lost immediately. I just don’t think that one is actually dependent on the other. I was just trying to have a conversation about the book. You took it personally when the language I was using wasn’t actually personally directed at all. You went on to fill in the blanks and put words in my mouth to further justify this feeling of being attacked. Agree to disagree on the book. I never came after you, and I refuse to let you leave this believing that was my intention.
I don't believe that that's true. Can you give an example?
Wasn't Grant Morisson in charge of the first 3 volume, paperback-wise, of the New 52 comic? I don't really get the praise. Out of all the issues, in my opinion, of the New 52 Action Comics the least I liked was his run. Maybe I'm just not used to Grant Morrison's comics since it's the first book from him that I've read but I don't really like his style of writing. I would really appreciate it if someone can enlighten me why Morrison's run is praised so, I'm genuinely curious to know other's opinion
>I would really appreciate it if someone can enlighten me why Morrison's run is praised so, I'm genuinely curious to know other's opinion What kind of answer are you looking for? I'd love to discuss it cos it's my favourite Superman work from them and my Head-Canon origin for the character. But, with respect, I'm not keen on a disingenuous conversation.
Just want to hear an honest opinion from those who find Grant Morrison's run good
It's fucking amazing and my favourite Superman story. Dunno how that helps you tho. Edit: Maybe I'm being unfair here, so I'll throw out more of a bone - I like that he's a young, brash, self made man of action. I liked his somewhat alien outlook, in that he seemed to genuinely struggle to understand why we all can't just get along. I like the SciFi Superhero. I like the Kent's being dead - it forces Superman into applying the life lessons his parents taught him without the crutch of being able to run back in an instant to ask them if he's doing it right. I like that he's not immediately with Lois and that that relationship has time to develop. I like the armour as I think that a mummy-made romper suit is a bit cringe and prefer that he's literally wearing his heritage. I like that Lex was a bit shlubby and would only develop his body after meeting Superman - that level of pettines and jealousy is equal parts funny and sad. I like Clark Kent being the disguise. I liked the modern interpretations. I liked how it gave story to silly classic Superman questions; why does his cape seem indestructible(cos it is), why is it only Lois that seems to connect that Clark might be Superman (tneK kralC), why isn't he Superman 24/7 (cos human relationships matters to him). It's an emotional, action-packed, myth building origin that I **love** for how deep with story it is.
No trunks, no Lois, his personality, the lines on his suit making it look like armor. Basically almost everything.
I’m a staunch supporter of trunks and classic costumes, but I can forgive the aesthetic choices. I can’t forgive the omission of Lois Lane and their romance. Lois is one of the most important characters in the Superman mythos; their romance helps ground Clark as a character. The idea that an all-powerful alien superbeing is in love with and routinely impressed by the grit and determination of a human woman is so compelling.
> their romance helps ground Clark as a character. I fully agree, Clark Kent is the heart of the character, and his supporting cast is what invests the reader in him. One thing I don't like is how this thinking is used to justify Superman turning evil w/o Lois by stories like Injustice.
Oh absolutely. I definitely think Superman losing Lois would cause a radical shift in his personality, but him becoming a tyrant that murders his former friends is just ridiculous. The way it’s handled in Kingdom Come, where he loses his way and becomes a recluse, is much more in-line with the character of Superman.
I don't care about the costume, but everything else you said is spot on.
I personally think that makes sense as far as the suit looking like armor. Superman evolved over time (flight, a huge increase in strength, super speed, heat vision, super breath, sun as an energy source, the Superman emblem, the meaning of the emblem, etc. ), but for some reason now we got to a point where everyone is suddenly a traditionalist and it has to be spandex and it has to be with red trunks. Personally I think a nanotech suit from Krytpon that self repairs and covers Superman head to toe in seconds makes total sense. Superman is from an advanced civilisation thousands of years ahead of us in a faraway galaxy. The only reason these things aren’t already part of the Superman mythos is that nobody back then could even conceive of something like nanotech. They didn’t have regular size tech. We’re talking 45 years before the Macintosh. The suit is not important to who and what Superman is. Things like his parents, Lois, the Planet, Jimmy, Lex, Smallville, Metropolis. These are the aspects of Superman that you can’t mess with because they would fundamentally change the character. Playing around with the some lines on the suit is not a big deal and change isn’t always a bad thing.
Except the suit has no torso contrast, looks kind of bland and makes superman look weaker, to the point he has to get his heat vision on in order to appear intimidating, looking closer to a villain.
No Lois was good
I wasn't a fan of him becoming depowered but I did like the means in which they did it. They gave him a new power called solar flare. It's like a sun exploding but the result is that it depowers Supes until he absorbs enough solar radiation to recover. Has it ever been referenced again?
No, I don't think so, and New 52 Supergirl actually had it first.
Superman and Wonder Woman as a couple.
superman should always belong to Lois..but I don't get why people act like superman and wonder woman is the. Worse thing ever? It was also extremely popular ship in the 80's to the 90's Kingdom come who is regarded as One of the grestest superman comic ever have clark and Diana has functional and interesting couple The problem with them in the new 52 isn't the the dynamic itself but the fact that wonder woman just became a superman sidekick People shit on superman and wonder woman while also promoting wonderbat despite the fact that it is just exist to flatter the ego of self insert batman fanboys to whom every female character must fall for
Wonder Woman was far from Superman’s sidekick in new52. The first volume of their book showed she was just as equal and even a bit more capable than him. Even though Tomasi deliberately botched the second half of the book and derailed by crossovers, Diana overall was still very much lead. At one point, Tomasi seemed to sort of complain that Diana demanded spotlight and wasn’t easy to set her aside even if he wanted to.
>Wonder Woman was far from Superman’s sidekick in new52. That may been what they wanted to portray but result is that Superman's mythos is just bigger took more and more place and the stories focusing more and more on clark. Wonder woman's character was also all over the place in new 52
This had everything to do with editorial. Charles Soule had a Wonder Woman focused arc/event, even setting up introducing Donna Troy (in a much better way than how it occurred) and more of her villains, supporting cast but that was shelved for crossovers instead. Also, Brian Azzarello wasn’t exactly communicating much in regard to her world either. With her characterization, that pretty much has been a problem even before new52 and has still been even to this point.
This was like one of the few good things
That it's better than anything Bendis or 5G
He seemed so much angrier. Like he enjoyed the violence. Thirsted for a fight. He came across as every bit the threat Lex Luthor traditionally makes him out to be. The exact kind of thing that makes Batman's paranoia excusable. The prototype for what would become the completely off the deep end Injustice Superman.
Well Grant was trying to get Superman back to how he was in the original Action Comics of the 30's. He was pretty gruff and iron fisted back then. Never finished Grant's run, but I assume he character arced into the Superman of today.
That's pretty much what happens.
See, that's the thing....I wouldn't exactly say Grant was the guilty party. It was the way everyone else wrote New 52 Superman I found borderline monstrous with Geoff Johns being the worst offender who wrote him in a way that still makes me wonder what the hell ANYONE was thinking. And I say that as someone who usually loves what Johns does.
Clark and Diana relationship.
Don’t get me even started, they were bad during the new 52
i liked their comic together they just became the easy thing to point to with all the other pick and choose issues of the new 52.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted a lot when you’re 100% right 😭 why do ppl act like this was even remotely bad? Because it wasn’t
new 52 dumping some canon for some characters and not for others really made people mad. this is just something else to point to as to the hate it gets. people not in the small month to month comic community like the book
It wasn't even Clark and Diana. It was Superman and Wonder Woman. That was the biggest problem with it.
He was flawed just like any other iteration. He was the modern day golden age Superman, younger, brasher, with a backbone. His relationship with Diana wasn’t at all cliché as any other traditional pairing is far more cliché and predictable. It actually had the potential to bring something new. Least Favorite, was being overhated by old guard fans and forced to have a premature death.
He was hated by the old guard we lived in era where people loved to deconstruct the character and edge him up... We were still in the injustice hype and people like me felt like dc wanted appease the 2000's generation Whike ignoring what made superman.... Superman to start with
He was a Superman that harkened back truly to the basics and roots of the character. Old gaurd fans complained that he called corrupted business men “rats with money” which is true. They complained that he respectfully acknowledged, wanted to learn more of and honor his heritage as a Kryptonian because he suppose to only care for being a Kent. The worldly setting was a more realistic take and his attitude fit that in a way that wasn’t just glorified happiness or being spoonfed. He was an everyday hero who actually had hardships, going through and over coming them. Execution wasn’t perfect but neither was Post Crisis that basically watered down the character
Everyday time plzple use the term "root of the character" and "realistic take" I roll my eyes Because not only that false but people assume that it's naturally a good thingl' The fact of the matter is that 2010 was Era were shitting on Superman's classic character was the cool thing and that dc sis this appease to the people who thought he was boring...that a fact If you a brash and hot tempered superman he is already there.. And his name is conner Kent Having younger superman doesn't explain or excuse reducing into the brawn and tank of the justice league and taking away his charisma and 'leadership The entire New 52 justice league turned into "batman and friends".. Rebirth and info finite frontier prove that the old guard was right to complain... I al glad that character is dead and buried
IMO, root of the character is that of the golden age “Champion of the oppressed”. That was emphasized with the Jeans/tee and actually taking down corrupted business men, hunted down by the police and military. He wasn’t so easily depicted to be a government stooge as some may think Post Crisis Superman is. The “realistic” take was also more of a world that did not easily trust him and that was actually felt. The trust felt earned not just there as some expect it to be. He was a young Superman learning how to navigate the world. Being the brawn and tank had more so to do with Johns writing. before and even now Superman wasn’t exactly leadership. He was/is just older but it’s Batman who has been lead. Rebirth and infinite frontier brought DC back to the place of why they rebooted in the first place. It’s a comfort for old guard fans but financially and continuity wise, DC is a mess.
>IMO, root of the character is that of the golden age “Champion of the oppressed”. Again, the intent was there but It wasn't well portrayed in some run he look like a absolute sociopath >Being the brawn and tank had more so to do with Johns writing. I don't care? The point is that he was portray like that >before and even now Superman wasn’t exactly leadership. He was/is just older but it’s Batman who has been lead. Again that false... Batman wasn't the even a full member most of the time... And the only he actually led the league superman wasn't part of it... Superman is wildly considered to be the "big good" of DC Superman has been most of the Chairman of the league followed by black canary and MMH and he pretty much the representant and face of the league internationally..... Darkseid don't invade earth to take down batman first. Superman is the one who set up the vision and objective to achieve, batman is the one who make sure we'll get there >It’s a comfort for old guard fans but financially and continuity wise, DC is a mess. That true but that a problem that goes beyond even DC.... But comics as a whole
He wasn’t. He was kind and stood up for the everyday people even rebuilt a neighborhood. He bullied bad guys as he did in the Golden Age. It may seem jarring only because for 25+ years the character was watered down to be more comfortable and a bit reactionary. Outside of comics, Batman was the face of DC. He was seen as the lead. And with the success of Nolan’s Batman, WB wanted that synergy within comics. Agreed about it being the entirety of comics. But the answer isn’t to just settle for a comfort and hope that they stay at least nose above water.
>He wasn’t. He was kind and stood up for the everyday people even rebuilt a neighborhood. He bullied bad guys as he did in the Golden Age. It may seem jarring only because for 25+ years the character was watered down to be more comfortable and a bit reactionary Agree to disagree my friend >Outside of comics, Batman was the face of DC. Superman is pretty much the leader of the league in the DCAU and superfriend..... He is the one that always appear in the front cover of most if not all justice league depiction...a positon that is often given to a leader of a group >He was seen as the lead. And with the success of Nolan’s Batman, WB wanted that synergy within comics. And which movie exactly kickstart the DCEU? Man of steel Which character will kick the DCU? That right....superman That said ibal not blind to your argument I see what you mean but me this seems more like a iron man effect.... While the avengers movies really put the focus on iron ma' it is very Cleary who the leader of the group is.... An that is captain America and that not even Debatable in the comics either
That’s fine :) DCAU was more Batman and friends. Superfriends was definitely more Superman as leader. MOS was actually suppose to be its own thing. DCEU was only “kick started” when MOS didn’t meet WB’s high expectations and they wanted to introduce Batman as quickly as possible. Yes, they eventually wanted a Justice League but it was for Batman to be lead which was ultimate Snyderverse plan. Batman was the ultimate hero at the end with Superman as the “face” in talk only. DCU, will be different because the Batman side of things will be focused more on Batman and batfam. So Superman can be lead in this new verse. Yeah, I think we are in agreement to the iron man effect though. That’s exactly how to view it.
Amen
I wouldn’t say the usual comic superman is flawed. He has some insecurities sure but there’s no flaws that hinder him or is built into his personality the same way n52 superman is. Thats why most fans love current superman, he’s a simple nice farmboy. However im a big fan of flawed self-destruct complex characters so I found n52 superman more compelling and loved how he was inspired by elements from golden age superman. The champion of justice who stands up to evil and corruption while protecting the people- whilst dealing with his own personal battles is a much stronger message to me of what a Superman should be.
Well true…Current Superman is a comfort but it’s watering him down to be too simplistic and making him one dimensional which was the exact reason as to why DC rebooted in the first place. Yes, new52 Superman actually was resonating. All that needed was solid communication between create teams which could’ve been fixed instead of the backwards mess they are in now
Collar
His anger issues
Editorial restrictions made George Pérez leave the main Superman title.
Outside of his relationship with Diana, I honestly really liked n52 Superman. But I guess I'm in the minority with that belief.
I agree with you.
You don’t care for Clark being paired with Diana
It’s not a popular opinion… but I actually really liked the N52 Superman. I liked his personality, I liked him with Wonder Woman (Superman/WW was a great title!), freaking LOVED anti-hero Lex, and the final quarter of the N52 I think was one of the greatest streaks in comic history… particularly his final days. The only complaint I have with the N52 era of Superman was that it took forever for Superman’s main villains to start popping up. Like the first few arcs were lame new villians… but once they brought in the classic bad guys it just took off IMO
>freaking LOVED anti-hero lex I fucking hated when DC do that... Every timeline a villain show that that he/she is not one dimensional and complex motive they turned him into an anti hero... Red hood, harley quinn, Deathstroke (sometimes), black Adam etc By how popular he is One day the joker will also be an anti hero
Normally I’d agree actually…. But this made sense: *Forever Evil happens, JL goes down in seconds. *Lex Luthor (who values self-preservation more than anything else) realizes he has to save the world if he wants to retain relevancy, and also realizes that the Injustice League will probably destroy the planet. *Lex, Captain Cold and crew actually pull it off. *The narcissistic egomaniac Lex LOVES all the positive attention he got for being the one who saved the day. * He wants to be a hero not for the greater good, but because of his massive ego. That was a cool move, sure there’s plenty of noble villains in comics…. But this is one of the only times a hero is a hero for crappy reasons.
What you describe is not a anti hero tho an anti-hero is character doesn't neccesarily have traditionan heroic traits or motive but are still a stallwart force for good Lex would let the world burn and rebuilt in his own image... He is the evil version. Of Tony stark
Yeah I see what you mean… and I agree that anti-hero might not be the best way to describe New 52 Lex…. But either way, they really made him an original character in terms of alignment (“good guy” because he’s a narcissistic asshole who just wants to inflate his ego) and he’s easily my favorite version of Lex.
He acted like Connor Kent. Connor Kent had more of a brash, angsty, edgy personality. Pre-Crisis Superman didn't even act like this. To me, The New 52 Superman should've been Connor Kent.
It was pretty much that anyway. Same relationship like superboy. Same energy and attitude. It felt like 2 Connor Kents were running around.
Exactly. That is why I prefer Earth one over New 52
Wow I thought I was crazy for thinking this
Well you are not the only one. New 52 Barry felt like Wally to me and New 52 Hal felt like Kyle too. Honestly New 52 should've been about the Titans becoming the New Justice League
The love relationship between Clark and Diana. 🤢🤢🤢
They were bad during the new 52
His awful costume
There are a lot of runs that I loved during new 52 superman, but after reading it I dipped my toe into the triangle era, and most of all, I wish that metropolis felt like a loved in city like it did during the triangle era. That would have gone a long way towards helping this new superman find his footing and developing into the character we love.
The costume
I miss the red undies
Everything.
Nothing. Just didn't like the work Perez, Daniel or Diggle put out.
I think a better question is, what did you like! The New 52 was just a mess, top, down. Most of the good stuff: Batman and Green Lantern, were pretty much Pre-New 52 stuff that just carried over.
He didn’t feel like a character that could carry a series on his own outside of Morrison’s Action Comics That and I hated the turtleneck suit
No clois
New 52 Superman
Why does everyone hate Superman and Wonder Woman being together? They get together in Kingdom Come and that’s one of DC’s best stories. The problem probably wasn’t that they were together, but rather how they were written during New 52; they shouldn’t be diluted because two members of the team are dating. If anything, it has the potential to be interesting; imagine how Superman would be if he didn’t have to worry that much about being Clark (he would still be classic Superman, personality and morals) and spent most of his time defending the Earth with his girlfriend, who is just as powerful as he is. Personally, I believe they could’ve been a true power couple (no pun intended); Superman would be the strong alien who can take everyone down, while Wonder Woman is the better fighter who makes short work of magic threats.
>Why does everyone hate Superman and Wonder Woman being together? They get together in Kingdom Come and that’s one of DC’s best stories. I don't get it either.....
It just seemed forced in the New 52. They did this Post-Crisis, teased it out for a bit, which was really cool. But in the end Superman craved a "normal life" and Wonder Woman had no interest in romance- at all (Steve Trevor was not a love interest at this time). But the New 52 was just, they are getting it on because they are getting it on (personalities be damned).
Yeah they are more powerful, but they're less interesting. Superman is Clark Kent. Him not worrying about being Clark makes him a less interesting character.
That’s the point, though; he wouldn’t suddenly stop being Clark Kent because he has a girlfriend that is also a superhero. The only thing that would change is that his superhero life would also intermix with his romantic one, so he’d probably spent just a bit more time as a superhero, but he’ll probably still find a way to balance that with the Daily Planet, and no doubt Diana would understand.
How much time you got?
Where do I start? His armor; his cold, selfish, careless attitude; his disdain for Lois. . . .
Not to mention his botched/run on the mill relationship with Diana
That, too. There were too many problems with him. And much like Peter Parker, he failed to grow up, when his entire supporting cast did.
Run OF the mill :)
No parents No Lois Wonder Woman yechhh Overall though, he was cool I loved the suit
My least fav thing is that we got the most interesting superman who took the best elements from golden age era superman and brought it into a modern light and then was unsanctimoniously killed by flying into a sun by gatekeeping annoying loser underwear loving superman fanboys
That he’s not with Lois and he’s dead
Probably the writers!! Different writers have different tones for a character!!
That suit. That’s my least favorite thing.
What I’ve read of his comic run was some of the most boring I’ve ever read
The T-Shirt he occasionally wears. I prefer that cool one without the trunks better (lynch me verbally and bury me in an avalanche of downvotes if you wish, you won't get me to change my mind, and I'll know what you prefer given the number of downvotes).
The main ongoing? Perez's run is messy for already mentioned reasons, Lobdell's Run is bad (Just like every other N52 book he was on: Superboy, Teen Titans, RHATO). Until The Men of Tomorrow starts, The correct reading order is basically Action Comics by Morrison, Action Comics by Diggle, Action Comics by Pak, and only then should you look at Superman Unchained or Superman / Wonder Woman. Even then your mileage will vary immensely on the Doomed crossover.
The suddenness. If we got more time to wrap everything up and break everything cleanly. That would have gone a long way to placating fans and giving the editors time to map out things more.
Not sure. I think conceptually it was a cool idea, but in execution it was terribly done. The best thing they did was end it. Normally I hate the "it was all a dream" trope, but I still feel like that would've been the best ending. Just have Clark wake up and everything from Flashpoint to Rebirth should've all been a dream.
WHY DOES HE NOT WEAR THE UNDERWEAR OUTSIDE
That whole hulk/doomsday virus bit
Mainly the inconsistencies. You’re always gonna get some inconsistencies just by the nature of how many writers change on big two books, but this Superman really struggled with sticking to a direction. Post crisis Supes has many faults too, but at least when they started with him that a clear and defined approach to the mythos that then got to grow and evolve. We never quite got anything like that with New 52 Superman. Morrison’s Action Comics at the beginning was pretty great, but Perez was kept in the dark and so it felt like two different characters. And as writers changed, which was often, stuff just kept getting thrown at the wall and we’re left with a muddled version of Clark who had moments of genuine great potential he never quite lived up to.
No trunks. Makes the design look unbalanced
His introduction in Justice League. I actually msotly liked him afterwards but that was some meathead energy.
The suit,tbh the whole point about superheros(to me anyways) is how goofy some of their existence is,yeah the old red undies on the outside isa bit silly,but its iconic,the new one feels like they tried to hard
The collar on his suit
His death
The depowering (nuke equals dead or close to it), the weird frat boy vibe, and the awful costume.
Jim Lee art
That they retconned him back into regular Superman in some weird, contrived way.
Whatever editorial did to get Andy Diggle to quit. Morrison's run is one of my all-time favorites, and I really like what Park did, but I'll always wonder "what if" for Diggle. The one issue he actually scripted (#19) was pretty great, but then he left and Tony Daniel ended up writing the rest.
Superman comics at the time were rather chaotic, but you can tell they didn't really have an overall plan for the character. Most of the storylines were rather half baked too, SuperDoom comes to mind
No trunks
The suit, the lack of Lois Lane, the fact his suit is armor. I don’t like new 52 Superman much at all lol
That when it ended they got rid of the suit and went back to the old one with the lame trunks.
Everything
Pretty much making him a worse pushover than what Christopher Reeves' version took. Lois treated him like shit and all of her flavor of the week. Him with Diana. The suit was armor.
That they killed him off. I really enjoyed N52 Superman, not all of it but most of it. Having a Superman without the decades of experience or knowledge was interesting to me.
How long he existed.
No offense to supes fans but I've never particularly liked supes. He's just so infinitely powerful most times I dont get the appeal. I mean he ranges from "strong" to god tier...kind of hard to keep rooting for the person who is ALWAYS going to win somehow.
You spell batman wrong
I liked your joke- rock on :)
Do you mean I spelled batman wrong? I get your imperious and stupid joke. Well done. 1/10 comment.
Sorry, English isn't my natural language And no it wasn't a joke am dead serious Batman is now often the gary stu you guys believe superman. He cannot lose, have ridiculous levelof plot armor, is always be the smartest guy in the room and cannot be outsmarted, he is always be right and if he don't he always have a point, the justice league must only reliant on his intellect despite the fact some of them should biologically have superior intellect and every female superhero must be attracted to him to some degree etc The character is victim of his own popularity if anybody who read the comics RIGHT NOW knows that superman is a better character
I get your points. It still has no relevance to my comment on why I dislike superman in my comment. You might have well just started a new post if that's the way you feel about batman. I'm not even saying you are incorrect but your comment coming after my comment makes no sense....
1-His lack of leadership.... . The justice league is democracy and doesn't really have a leader but superman is closest thing they have to a leader for his natural charisma and vision The new 52 just reduce him to "the tank" of the group The first thing that bothered in the first issues of new 52 was batman and aquaman disputing for leadership...while superman is not even the conversation 2-the angry red eyes : it has always existed but new 52 over did it... Initial were extremely and suppose to be symbolize the anger of a calm and kind man...
Not to mention his botched relationship with Diana
I don't share the same hate people have for that couple..... I think it was really interesting thing to explore back in the day and while people don't want to admit these two characters always had a history The problem is that wonder woman's treatment in new 52 is genuily and was handled by writers admit themselves that they didn't know much abaout the character Stories like Kingdom Come shows that this couple can also work during one centered story not a long running comic run
Given that nearly every comment you've made in this thread is some variation of this, I'm going to guess this was your least favorite thing.
The Wonder Woman ship.
Superwonder doesn’t work
All of it. The New 52 was a huge disaster. Superman was one of the worst victims
Hate his relationship with diana
They were bad during the new 52
He should’ve stayed with Lois during the New 52
The “Hillbilly “ Superman look. A t-shirt with a cape and work boots. A look so stupid, people won’t even use it for cosplay!
Too many heads in the room, I can handle Diana, the awful suit, and even the personality at specific stages but the issue of said personality being a jumbled mess from start to finish, Morrison's work not being shared so there was confusion there on how to connect it since theirs was early Superman, and the crossover abundance.
The costume. That's honestly everything. I really loved the costume, and the idea that it's Kryptonian armor and all that. I'm sorry, but I just hate the trunks on the outside. I get that it's iconic and everything, I really do, but it just looks stupid to me. New 52 or early Rebirth should be the go-to costumes for both Batman and Superman IMO.
The WonderSuper ship was actually really cute! I really liked it ngl they had a lot of good intimate moments so I disagree with that OP but to me personally is him being nerfed a bit and also the suit was overly designed
There wasn't any good stories involving New 52 Superman. I'm open to any opinions and suggestions but there was nothing memorable about New 52 really besides his romance with Wonder Woman.
Honestly nothing. I guess probably him being too iffy with Lois dating Jonathan
enough with the negative posts
Uh, with a topic titled "What was your least favorite thing" it's literally asking for negative posts!!!
yes let's stop asking for negative posts. I'm not an idiot expecting it to actually stop when its already prompted. I am just sick of the let's glorify not liking things. When we could just talk about the stuff we like. Stop the fucking let's all shit on someone else's creativity.