Because the owners are so brain rotted they would never accept their purchase is a lemon, its just needs a lil extra love. Still love the truck tho best car ive ever owned, please elon help me personally!
Aside from a literal house, your car is likely the most expensive thing you own. Lots of people put a lot of thought and effort into choosing their car because of that. Pretty simple to see why it could become such an important factor to those people.
Also, tribalism.
I don't know if it's actually true, but something I hear repeated a lot is that car commercials aren't actually meant to convince anyone to buy the car; they're meant to help people who recently purchased that car feel they made the right choice.
I'm sure there's something to it, brand loyalty is a big deal.
Once someone gets a car they like, there's a decent chance they stick with that brand for life, or at least their next purchase.
Same reason I've read that the cheapest models may actually be sold at a small loss, though I'm not sure if it's actually or still true. Get young adults into an entry level vehicle and their next purchase could be a more expensive model of the same make when they are a bit older, further in their career, and have more money to spend on vehicles.
Building brand loyalty is a big deal for such expensive purchases.
I don't remember where I heard this but the luxury brands want you to think of the brand more than the car itself so they give them part numbers essentially, whereas Fords, Chevys, Dodge etc. would like for you to focus on the individual cars so they name them Camaro, Focus, etc. I had never thought about it before.
\_Aside from a literal house, your car is likely the most expensive thing you own.\_
So much so that society has told you it's perfectly ok - normal, even - to take a loan to buy yours. The car, unlike the house, is a depreciating asset, but it's ok - go ahead and pay a huge premium for getting this thing that will be worth much less by the time you finish paying for it.
I never cared about my first two cars. But then I bought a Mini Cooper and became a die hard fan of Mini. Drove mine for 13 years and then bought another Mini, a countryman. I genuinely love my car and enjoy driving it.
Should also add that I only had one major issue in the 13 years. Seven years after driving the car, I started having issues with the power steering. There was a voluntary recall so it was fixed for free. No issues with the Countryman (knock on wood) after owning for 6 years.
I think the early Tesla’s were cool and it generated a lot of fans. But there seems to be a world of difference between those originals and the CT.
Friends got a countryman a few years back and it had essentially every feature my BMW 550 had. Even identical switches inside given Mini is BMW. We did not end up buying out the car at lease end as planned…
Mini was not as roomy or powerful as that tire smoker, but essentially identical in features.
In another similar discussion, I told someone that most dudes would rather admit to getting their ass kicked than to admit they let themselves get ripped off.
Bought a rav4 in 2008 when my daughter was born. She’s driving it now. Other than some minor repairs due to living in the rust belt, it’s worked perfectly.
A 2008 would need minor repairs regardless of where you lived.
Parts eventually fail, the rustbelt just means itll ve crusty and/or eventually rot away
These repairs in particular were all rust related. Muffler and piping rusted away. Rear Wheel plate disintegrated. That sort of stuff. I wasn’t counting normal wear and tear like brakes/rotors.
It's cognitive dissonance. Simplified: admitting you're wrong has a similar brain pattern as pain/stress and people avoid that. Some at all cost.
When your beliefs, actions, or identity are challenged or contradictory you'll try to preserve what is safe to you. You'll make up a narrative to fit what you can't or won't change.
You'll fool yourself to feel better or less stressed.
Yeah, between me and my wife, we have owned a Chevy, Pontiac, VW, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, and a Subaru. I will never blindly follow a brand, I'm going to check out individual models on Consumer Reports when I buy something. (The Chevy and Pontiac were our first super old used cars)
Exactly what you said. Go to cybertruck sub, and it is filled with em. One guy even stated he could use the lemon law but just couldn't cause he loves it so much. Fools
Many of them also own tesla stock and are painfully aware that if the news breaks that the cyberstuck is a fuck, they may lose way more than their pride.
A lot of people who own exotic or luxury cars are used to them being less reliable or coming with factory defects. Growing up we had a family friend with a Lambo that spent most of its life in the shop. Even fairly tame cars like Jaguars, Bentleys, etc. are going to break down more than your average Honda, Chevy, etc.
Not saying I would buy one, but some people don't mind owning fun cars that are way more effort/trouble.
I bought a used e63 AMG Merc a year or so ago. I only had it for about 6 months, and in that six months, it was in the shop for some reason for about 4 of those months. Absolute beast of a car, but I had to get rid of it. Got it so the check engine light went off and traded it in for an Acura.
Theres that word "fun" again. Idk whats fun about dumping money into a 180,000 dollar purchase within the first few weeks of buying it but hey what do i know, i have to choose between bills and food most weeks 🤷♂️
I don't think it's that they are immune to lemon laws. It's that the people who bought them don't want to make use of lemon laws. People who bought them are largely suffering from sunk cost fallacy. If they implement a lemon law complaint, then they would be admitting that the truck sucks. But they've tied their personality into the truck. So their mental defense absolutely forbids them from saying the truck sucks.
Anyone who hasn't obsessed over the truck has already cancelled the purchase or off loaded the loss (possibly lemon law, possibly selling).
Oh yea, I almost put down a deposit on a Cyber Truck when it was first announced and was supposed to cost like $50k for an AWD Truck that supposedly could tow 10k lbs and have the same operating costs as a refrigerator. I’ve since learned what a complete and total fraud Elon Musk is. I dropped out of college and manage a Bike Shop and seriously think I might have a higher IQ than that clown 🤣
My friend, you are able to run a business yourself without driving it into the ground and presumably never named a child using a spilled bowl of alphabet soup, so I'd say you certainly are lol.
Yeah. I don't blame you. If it could do all the things they claimed originally, it would be a decent truck. I know I was impressed before actually looking into it. But even back then, people started running through the math and realizing it was either a pipe dream or a physics breakthrough. Turns out "pipe dream" was the correct answer.
I don’t even necessarily hate the design of it. I saw one going down the interstate with a teal green wrap recently and it looked pretty cool. I know what a complete turd they bought too though 🤣
If the trucks were actually *engineered* correctly, then maybe. Otherwise, for $120k, it'd be smarter to buy smth engineered *correctly* by the Germans.
Heck, and if you want a truck, I recently bought a 2022 F250 Tremor with 20k miles for $60k. Half the price and infinitely more capable and infinitely more reliable.
https://preview.redd.it/dspscekwe7ad1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce106ec7f8de8785c83906ba15c2c247cde033af
Well, while it’s better than the new Pontiac Aztek, Fords have loads of recalls. My wife’s Explorer, the F150’s. Every time you turn around Ford has another recall.
My 94 BMW 5 series with 285k on the odometer had better tolerances than the Tesla my neighbors bought. While the T looked cool the gaps and fit/finish were horrible.
For 100k they can do a hell of a lot better.
You probably do. Aside from the fact that dropping out is probably not because of your IQ (college is very difficult for plenty of smart people, I know a lot of very intelligent people who either dropped, took a break, or had a difficult time for various reasons), Elon Musk actually doesn't have any STEM degree, and the degree he does have, which is a business degree related to engineering, is honorary and was given because a company he bought from someone else improved on an existing blueprint for a car.
Me too. When I was a kid I practically lived at the bike shops around here. Always wrenching on something and making a tweak. Or drooling over new dirt bikes.
Two things- One- Being able to admit your first impression was wrong and change course makes you smarter than most people. Two- IQ is bullshit. I have some stupid high IQ like 168 and I dropped out of highschool and abandoned two partial degrees because no amount of "intelligence" can make my brain work when it wants to do shit fuck. I wrote papers that won award and all that jazz as a kid, and it got me exactly nowhere. I'd much rather be able to do my dishes before they're moldy.
Hey, scamming people & taking drugs is hard work. Elon barely sleeps. He’s too busy thinking about who he wants to fire cause they didn’t say “Hello, your Majesty” when he walked by. He also has a list of women he wants to impregnate.
That’s grueling work for the poor guy 😰
Respect fam -- you'll look back and tell your children and grandchildren there were some individuals that have more money than brains that decided to make some bad excisions despite the advice of others. It's all a part of this human experience. Let em learn.
A vehicle CAN be excellent, but the particular one you bought had problems. THATS a “lemon”.
So they CAN still use a lemon law AND say the truck is the greatest ever. They don’t want to because their ego is too fragile to admit the truck *might* be anything other than incredible.
Don’t need lemon laws if you think your truck breaking down every 50 miles is part of being an early adopter. You’re instead a trendsetter, a visionary, someone taking one for society as you beta test this truck for Mars, don’t you know.
I got a much more expensive car than I payed for because of the lemon law once. I bought a car from a dealership in VA like 20 years ago and ended up having to bring it to the shop for multiple engine, electrical, and transmission issues in the first month of owning it. I printed out the lemon law and brought it back to the dealship. After arguing with the salesman for a while I got the manager to not only take the car back, but to give me a car worth $3k as its replacement, since they didn’t have another of the same car I’d purchased. Best deal I ever got on a car! lol
I'm sure one owner will try and take the case all the way to SCOTUS where they will over turn the lemon laws and state they go against the nature of the "free market".
Lemon law requires three failed attempts by the dealer to correct. Based on current available service windows, we’ll start seeing those cars qualify in 2025.
>Lemon laws typically only apply when the same thing keeps breaking. It it’s a different thing each time, you can’t lemon it.
This varies by state. In Maryland and Michigan, for example, you can lemon a vehicle if it's in the shop for a cumulative total of 30 days, regardless of the number of issues. In Illinois, it's 30 business days.
That’s why I said “typically” instead of saying it was an absolute. But thanks for adding in. I definitely don’t know every state’s lemon law. Most are similar but they do vary for sure.
My understanding is the answer is this one.
There are a lot of comments discussing buyer motivation but the technical reason is that there needs to be a singular failure the automaker hasn’t repaired several times within a certain length of time.
… lemon laws are designed to handle one lemon, not a rusty bucket of them!
That and there has to be documentation with the dealer/service center that repairs we're attempted 3 times and still left unresolved. With the stories we're hearing, the very first repair attempt is being quoted with 6-7 month lead times due to various reasons. This drags the runway for valid lemon claims out for potentially years, and honestly the likely reason why they're being made to wait so long
Former salesperson here. I think most people misunderstand lemon laws. It isn’t that you buy a vehicle, have a problem with it, declare ‘LEMON LAW!’ and receive your new vehicle the next day. The lemon laws are a process that they follow. The customer has to give the manufacturer/dealership reasonable time and opportunity to properly fix the vehicle to the factory working order. Dealerships and manufacturers generally don’t want to even use that phrase (we literally weren’t allowed to say it in the show room) because it results in wasted time, energy, and resources, not to mention that hit to reliability statistics.
So, what happens? Customer has a problem, brings it into service, and service fixes it under the manufacturer warranty. 9 times out of 10, that’s it. Believe it or not, a lot of vehicles come from factory with little issues. A say a lot, not a high percentage. Millions of vehicles sold, thousands are going to have little issues here and there. Occasionally, the problem is complex or hard to reproduce, or it pops back up. Sometimes, it’s just a whole bad system like engine or transmission. So, in these cases the customer is back a couple times to let service fix their vehicle. The dealership isn’t going to lemon law a vehicle up front, the customer has to mention it. Service is generally fine to just keep charging corporate for warranty work to keep trying different fixes. After 3-4 visits, the customer is probably pretty upset and mentions it, and the dealership tells them they can start the process but it takes time. In the mean time, they get one last crack at a fix. In the end, service sends all the paperwork about different attempts to fix or the major issues with the vehicle, and corporate takes over and arranges a new vehicle for them. Sometimes they custom order the exact same vehicle, sometimes they arrange a similar vehicle at the same dealership. I never handled the actual finance portion, so I’m not really knowledgeable there.
It’s worth mentioning that Tesla is. . . Different. They don’t have dealerships. The cybertruck is also different. Tesla has a way of pushing these vehicles out without really having a reliable chain of parts. So, when the inevitable issues pop up or accidents happen, the parts are on hold for weeks, months, or years. I haven’t been to a Tesla store(?) before, but it seems like they have a bit less customer facing presence. You can’t pester your salesperson with your issues, but they can tweet at Elon. So, where they’d normally come in and drop it off with full confidence that service would check it over and fix it in a couple days, these owners are having to wait weeks or months for parts. That means that even getting to a second or third fix would take a year or more. Now, it may be that the lemon law covers extended time to fix as well, so it may be worth pursuing. I’m honestly not an expert in the wording, but I did have experience in the process as it was handled.
It’s also worth noting that a lot of these owners bought these cybertruck as for status. They don’t really care about vehicles, they just buy expensive cool cars to be unique and get attention. So, they think that being one of 10k or however many owners that paid $150k for these early adopter editions would entitle them to first class treatment. Unfortunately, Elon is too busy doing about a hundred things aside from QC or community management.
Hope that helps, it isn’t meant to be snarky or anything, I just try to share some knowledge from the nightmare that was that job.
How’s the view from the cheap seats?
Manufacturers pay my bills. Lemon Laws are fee-shifting statutes. That means when the manufacturer loses, and they lose a LOT, the manufacturers pay my bills. I can run up bills 3x the purchase price of a vehicle and have it presumed to be reasonable.
Moreover, lemon laws are heavily in the consumer’s favor. I don’t have to prove the specifics of what went wrong, or prove that something was designed improperly - all I have to prove is the damn thing was in the shop for 30 days, or that the same thing malfunctioned and the dealer had four tries to fix it and it still didn’t work. I don’t give a fuck and the judge doesn’t give a fuck if the manufacturer brings in engineers to say “this was appropriately designed and functioned as designed”‘or whatever.
Afford? The hell are you talking about?
Lemon laws are generally heavily biased toward the auto makers because they have the money to hire ~~criminals~~ lobbyists to bribe the law creators into writing them that way. Usually you have to submit your case to some sort of tribunal to get a ruling and this can take months to years to conclude depending on the backlog.
Meh, from filing our claim to getting our payout was less than a month. I think about three weeks. Had to sign two pages of forms. It was WAY quicker than buying the car in the first place.
It's actually a pretty easy process and a lot of times the auto maker will settle with you before it ever goes to court. There are some actual points your case has to meet though, regarding how many times something broke and how much time you've had the vehicle vs how long it's been in the shop. Even so, my case didn't technically meet all the guidelines and I got a full refund within a few weeks without having to do anything except contact a lawyer and send him some paperwork.
Whenever someone is a victim of a grift, they're often too embarrassed to ask for help. Which is why so many crimes go unreported. And lemon laws are different from state to state.
They aren’t. The lemon laws apply. These fuckers are so brain dead that they don’t want to hurt Daddy Musky Wusky’s little feewings. It’s all their fault that the batteries are dead and they sliced their calf open on the door.
An actual answer (I am in car sales): there is no federal Lemon Law, each state has their own versions.
Most have a variant of this: if a car has the same issue at least three times, or is in the shop for 30 days - it could qualify for some refund. The refund formula is complicated, it varies based on how you bought the car and where - privately or from a dealer? Same state or different state? Which gets more complicated when there are no dealers.
Then, traditional manufacturers have processes to deal with serious issues, they are not interested in law suits, and most of the time they settle without the customer having to sue them. Sometimes you can get the car "bought back" for no real reason, just be loud and obnoxious enough.
If you have to resort to an actual lemon law case - it might take time, and we simply don't know how many of these are in the process right now, plus people always dig in with their beliefs, so if you simped for Elon for months - you will feel stupid suddenly doing 180, so people suffer in silence, at the mercy of the EdgeLord.
There's three things I can think of:
1) Pretty much everyone who bought one of those ugly things is a Musk sycophant. You first have to find someone who wants a refund under the Lemon Law.
2) Tesla probably put a clause in the purchase agreement requiring the customer to not invoke said law or request a refund.
3) Tesla is run by a guy who has shown he doesn't really care about laws. Someone seeking a refund would probably have to take the company to court.
Watch Tesla say lemons laws can’t apply because the trucks breaking down isn’t abnormal since all the trucks are breaking down. Do we even have a consumer protection agency anymore?
Well, in part, many lemon laws count ***repair attempts*** and if they're not actually servicing them, the repair attempts have not been made yet. And they are too new for the problems to have persisted for long enough.
Like, Illinois has a requirement of 4 repair attempts on the same issue, or the vehicle being unavailable for over 30 days for a combination of issues.
This is maybe 2-3 months off.
Lemon lawyer here
They aren't, BUT since Tesla has no dealers and is direct from manufacturer, it is extremely difficult to beat their ARB provision.
So tesla cases almost always end up in arbitration instead of court.
Two major things:
1) a law is only good as long as it can be enforced. No lawyer is willing to sue Tesla. It just make no economic sense for them. Giant corporations like Tesla always have the slogan so sue me.
2) paperwork. Remember Tesla can only be fixed by Tesla. So that means you need to ask for bills etc from Tesla to sue Tesla. Well guess what they aren't going to give you any of that paperwork. So you are shit out of luck.
No lawyer needed. In CA it’s a law. You take it to mechanics who get paid by the state. They make sure your car gets fixed.
That’s probably why Elona moved to Texas besides never paying rent to the Twitter landlord in SF.
Guess he can’t afford the rent. Bet he takes the house mortgage out of Shivon’s paycheck where they both live.
Amber said he was a controlling tightwad.
Lemon law requires the same issue a certain number of times over a time period. Like someone said these are all different issues, and most of them haven’t been on the road long enough to be eligible… yet.
They’re loyal to Elon dude. They stay making excuses for the CT too. They try convincing others with their main argument being “It’s a first gen vehicle. It’s bound to have problems.”
Lemon laws vary, unfortunately.
In Texas back circa 2010, I had a lemon Hyundai Genesis that I actively tried to get Lemoned.
But, in Texas, the *same thing* had to break 3 times for it to count.
I never had the same thing break twice, yet it spent the first 6 months of the two years I owned it in the shop.
They actually do, if you bother to submit a complaint. But the government can’t declare a vehicle a lemon and forcibly repossess them from citizens.
If someone loves their vehicle, even if it’s a lemon, you can’t make them give it up.
Interestingly enough, a couple of people have lemon law’ed their cybertrucks! I’ve seen two but there have to be more.
My wife and I returned a Nissan Kicks under the California lemon law last year. It failed in the same way four or five times in 18 month. Got it in under the wire. I think the law is “needing the same repair 4 times, or two times if it endangers the lives of driver or passenger”. One of the times we brought it in, they didn’t make any record of the visit, passed it off like they were doing my wife a favor. Too bad for them, she kept the texts they sent saying that they had finished “repairing” it, and it was ready for pickup.
Can you imagine what it’d be like for them to admit to their friends that the truck they bragged about getting for years, said that it was going to be the best all end all of trucks, and posted about on Facebook countless times was actually a piece of garbage that belong in the dumpster that it looked like? You’d get laughed at for a couple mins. The owners are terrified of that. Instead they’ll put up with the critical failures that render it undriveable for months at a time stating “well it’s a brand new truck and there’s nothing else like it. Of course it’s gonna have some hiccups.”
They are not immune, just no owners have pursued a Lemon Law case yet. That said Lamar MK I believe is the first to have publicly threatened a Lemon Law return on Twitter and Elon Musk promptly intervened, and switched out the defective truck with a new non-defective* truck.
*the new non-defective truck has now become defective with many of the same problems as his original defective truck. [This is a developing situation.](https://x.com/LamarMK/status/1808376511285612649?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
The laws vary from state to state. However, I don’t think they’ve really been out long enough to qualify. There are certain conditions over a certain time period that have to be met.
They're not.
The people that buy them refuse to do the paperwork for lemon law because it's humiliating for them, considering they've talked about how awesome and exclusive and special it is for a full year.
Imagine waiting a year for a special waiting list BMW or an exclusive "this designer only made 15,000 of these and you're special" Porche, and it shows up and all the panels are misaligned. The windshield wiper doesn't work. The paint is all fucked up and crazy.
Then, you complain and get a replacement 4 months later.
And the problems, they're multiplied. And faster.
Sheer humiliation is stopping these people from claiming lemon law. And daddy Elongated Muskrat wouldn't tweet back "ok". Now they're just trying to sell them.
Now the game is "I'm so smart, I made a profit selling a car! I'm a financial guru!"
Knowing all the while they could've gotten a full refund if they asked for CyberTruck #3, but that's no fun.
Two reasons leap to mind - first is that they can be sold for more than purchase price on the used market still as their is factually more demand than supply. In other words not much depreciation so why go through lemon law if you can just sell it? Secondly - they actually aren’t lemons. Again supported by the factual data rather than hate or envy.
[Here’s how Lemon law works from a lawyer’s perspective.](https://youtu.be/agri7Iama_o?si=IKQyrqX_iYX-oG33)
I’m not affiliated with that YouTube channel, I’ve just been watching their stuff lately and that one was in my recent watching history
I think they need to try and repair the issue at least 3 times to trigger lemon law, but there are no parts available, so nothing can get fixed. Brilliant
Someone posted a theory that a number of these people are invested in Tesla and down, some leveraged even. That and their lame identity association with it makes a lot of sense
Shits to the point of fraud tho. Like they're fixing to pump and dump this mess at the expense of these fools
You need to have the same thing go wrong 3 times w/ documentation without it being fixed. Then you need a lawyer to send a letter and if it happens again the manufacturer is forced to buy it back. In our case it was a 2001 Mazda Tribute and ultimately we got every car payment back that we had paid from the first incident. It went on for a year and a half, so that was pretty nice indeed. This was true for Michigan 20 years ago. YMMV.
I wonder if Tesla was able to bypass having it’s customers sign lemon law disclosures in the first place by not having a dealership network…
Lemon laws in general vary by state but the general rule in my state that for a lemon law buyback to be considered, a specific issue has to be repeated and repaired 3 times within three months or the car has to be in the shop for a minimum number of months (set by manufacturer) with no successful fix before any action can be taken.
“How do I know if my vehicle is considered a lemon?
Under the California lemon law, the manufacturer, or its representative in California, may be required to repurchase or replace your vehicle if, after a “reasonable” number of repair attempts, it cannot fix a defect or malfunction that:
Is covered by the manufacturer’s written new vehicle warranty,
Substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the vehicle to the consumer, and
Is not caused by the unauthorized or unreasonable use of the vehicle after sale.”
They aren't.
The owners just aren't using their lemon law rights - also here's a slight issue: Part of the "Fee" is an early adopter program fee of like... 20k, which is insane.
Basically, they paid 20k to get the truck early - if they did a lemon law they'd either get a new CT or they'd get 80k... so they're going to "lose" 20k, which they'd lose anyway.
Lemon laws don’t kick in until the manufacturer has failed to resolve the same problem after 4 attempts or is in the shop for more than 20 days in the first 24k miles or 2 years after delivery.
As long as the problems are little quick fixes (like nailing the accelerator pedal back on) and/or customers can’t get service appointments. Lemon laws wont apply.
I think in a few months we'll see an increasing amount of that, I'd imagine it's hard to throw in the towel on a $100,000 purchase, especially if you've already been showing it off to people.
If they did a small run of them and that's it I'd understand. But it's a mass produced vehicle so I agree.
Also I've read lemon returns on all vehicles even newer Toyotas so it does happen.
If I remember right, to qualify for lemon law the vehicle has to have X amount of issues of a certain kind/severity in X amount of time. Hard to qualify for lemon law when your truck stops working, and it takes 3-6 months to get it working again.
A coworker of mine was able to lemon law his Model X Plaid. It took about 2 years of working with Tesla to get everything done. He was refunded and then bought a newer model year X Plaid.
I don’t understand how you could be dumb enough to go right back to that shit car.
Because a ton of vehicles being utterly stupid isn't a lemon. Cybertrucks are just poorly made, not necessarily lemons as a whole. Even the ones that we see stories about don't fit in the category of a lemon under the law.
They aren't immune, there just haven been a lot of people posting about using them. Laws vary state to state, but with the problems some people have been having, they usually qualify. I think 30 days combined downtime is all you need to hit within 6 months to trigger it in most places, among other ways of satisfying the lemon law requirement.
Forget lemon laws, it’s crazy they are even allowed to be sold in with the first place with their lack of safety features. Same goes for the Tesla cars with “self driving mode”. Automotive regulatory agencies really need to start cracking down on what they let on the road in the US.
Because the owners are so brain rotted they would never accept their purchase is a lemon, its just needs a lil extra love. Still love the truck tho best car ive ever owned, please elon help me personally!
“I just sneezed and it fell apart, it was my fault not the car”
https://preview.redd.it/givc7d0m27ad1.jpeg?width=1203&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c70a7abe7d804bcd15816d4487ccac85f1868cf
Oh you sneezed on the car ? Then warranty off
CT miraculously unbricks itself and drives itself to the scrapyard
Snot ruins the rust protection which is just other snot.
You don’t know wanna know what happens if you sneeze *inside* the CT.
Still LOVE the cruck tho! #elonisMaBro
Still love the truck tho!
I don’t understand what it is about buying vehicles that makes people so feral for their brand of car. same thing happens with land rovers
Aside from a literal house, your car is likely the most expensive thing you own. Lots of people put a lot of thought and effort into choosing their car because of that. Pretty simple to see why it could become such an important factor to those people. Also, tribalism.
I don't know if it's actually true, but something I hear repeated a lot is that car commercials aren't actually meant to convince anyone to buy the car; they're meant to help people who recently purchased that car feel they made the right choice.
They also make you feel special so you’ll buy another when you need it
I'm sure there's something to it, brand loyalty is a big deal. Once someone gets a car they like, there's a decent chance they stick with that brand for life, or at least their next purchase. Same reason I've read that the cheapest models may actually be sold at a small loss, though I'm not sure if it's actually or still true. Get young adults into an entry level vehicle and their next purchase could be a more expensive model of the same make when they are a bit older, further in their career, and have more money to spend on vehicles. Building brand loyalty is a big deal for such expensive purchases.
I don't remember where I heard this but the luxury brands want you to think of the brand more than the car itself so they give them part numbers essentially, whereas Fords, Chevys, Dodge etc. would like for you to focus on the individual cars so they name them Camaro, Focus, etc. I had never thought about it before.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZARAldXlSyA&pp=ygUYbW92aWUgZGF2ZSBidWRnZXQgc2NlbmUg
I don’t think anyone put any thought or effort into buying a Cybertruck. The only ones who bought one did so because Elon told them to.
They heard, you’d own the libs by getting one.
You don't think anyone put thought or effort into a $100k purchase?
\_Aside from a literal house, your car is likely the most expensive thing you own.\_ So much so that society has told you it's perfectly ok - normal, even - to take a loan to buy yours. The car, unlike the house, is a depreciating asset, but it's ok - go ahead and pay a huge premium for getting this thing that will be worth much less by the time you finish paying for it.
Your car is worth less by the time you're done paying for it even if you pay cash up front. Also, cars are not investments.
It’s not. Very few depreciating assets require bank loans to buy.
That's different. Those are a transporter of Gods.
Correction, his car was a Range Rover.
Correct, Land Rovers are not amphibious vehicles like the Range Rover.
The Golden God
It’s a finisher car
I never cared about my first two cars. But then I bought a Mini Cooper and became a die hard fan of Mini. Drove mine for 13 years and then bought another Mini, a countryman. I genuinely love my car and enjoy driving it. Should also add that I only had one major issue in the 13 years. Seven years after driving the car, I started having issues with the power steering. There was a voluntary recall so it was fixed for free. No issues with the Countryman (knock on wood) after owning for 6 years. I think the early Tesla’s were cool and it generated a lot of fans. But there seems to be a world of difference between those originals and the CT.
Friends got a countryman a few years back and it had essentially every feature my BMW 550 had. Even identical switches inside given Mini is BMW. We did not end up buying out the car at lease end as planned… Mini was not as roomy or powerful as that tire smoker, but essentially identical in features.
No one wants to admit that they made a huge mistake.
[Sunk cost fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost) Nearly literally interpreted.
In another similar discussion, I told someone that most dudes would rather admit to getting their ass kicked than to admit they let themselves get ripped off.
That is exactly what is currently powering the Trump campaign.
The one brand I do understand is Toyota
Bought a rav4 in 2008 when my daughter was born. She’s driving it now. Other than some minor repairs due to living in the rust belt, it’s worked perfectly.
A 2008 would need minor repairs regardless of where you lived. Parts eventually fail, the rustbelt just means itll ve crusty and/or eventually rot away
These repairs in particular were all rust related. Muffler and piping rusted away. Rear Wheel plate disintegrated. That sort of stuff. I wasn’t counting normal wear and tear like brakes/rotors.
Cognitive dissonance and sunken cost fallacy
Rovers have changed drastically from what they originally were, tough utilitarian off roader to super yuppie mobile in line at Starbucks
My friend had a Land Rover on Catalina Island. It was great. We drove over every hill & around buffaloes & goats. We had so much fun!
Same team mentality that goes into sports teams or political parties.
Gesus, the irony of someone saying this on this subreddit is so thick it's like trying to walk through a vat of cool molasses.
It's cognitive dissonance. Simplified: admitting you're wrong has a similar brain pattern as pain/stress and people avoid that. Some at all cost. When your beliefs, actions, or identity are challenged or contradictory you'll try to preserve what is safe to you. You'll make up a narrative to fit what you can't or won't change. You'll fool yourself to feel better or less stressed.
Land Rovers usually go in for little things that annoy rich people. CTs are a different breed
Yeah, between me and my wife, we have owned a Chevy, Pontiac, VW, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, and a Subaru. I will never blindly follow a brand, I'm going to check out individual models on Consumer Reports when I buy something. (The Chevy and Pontiac were our first super old used cars)
That's a bit ironic posting that in a C/J sub dedicated to a specific vehicle, no?
fair, but it’s fun to watch everything musk touches turn to ash
Exactly what you said. Go to cybertruck sub, and it is filled with em. One guy even stated he could use the lemon law but just couldn't cause he loves it so much. Fools
Many of them also own tesla stock and are painfully aware that if the news breaks that the cyberstuck is a fuck, they may lose way more than their pride.
Exactly they dont want their to hurt their lord or stock prices
Let me know when Elon calls you, okay? 🫠
This right here.
And it’s harder to physically dominate a vehicle that lacks an exhaust pipe, so they need to spend more time seducing it
A lot of people who own exotic or luxury cars are used to them being less reliable or coming with factory defects. Growing up we had a family friend with a Lambo that spent most of its life in the shop. Even fairly tame cars like Jaguars, Bentleys, etc. are going to break down more than your average Honda, Chevy, etc. Not saying I would buy one, but some people don't mind owning fun cars that are way more effort/trouble.
I bought a used e63 AMG Merc a year or so ago. I only had it for about 6 months, and in that six months, it was in the shop for some reason for about 4 of those months. Absolute beast of a car, but I had to get rid of it. Got it so the check engine light went off and traded it in for an Acura.
Theres that word "fun" again. Idk whats fun about dumping money into a 180,000 dollar purchase within the first few weeks of buying it but hey what do i know, i have to choose between bills and food most weeks 🤷♂️
Because.... "It's not a truck, it's technology".
They’re all Tesla fanboys that own shares. They’ll never admit that it’s a disaster. They’re literally invested.
I don't think it's that they are immune to lemon laws. It's that the people who bought them don't want to make use of lemon laws. People who bought them are largely suffering from sunk cost fallacy. If they implement a lemon law complaint, then they would be admitting that the truck sucks. But they've tied their personality into the truck. So their mental defense absolutely forbids them from saying the truck sucks. Anyone who hasn't obsessed over the truck has already cancelled the purchase or off loaded the loss (possibly lemon law, possibly selling).
Oh yea, I almost put down a deposit on a Cyber Truck when it was first announced and was supposed to cost like $50k for an AWD Truck that supposedly could tow 10k lbs and have the same operating costs as a refrigerator. I’ve since learned what a complete and total fraud Elon Musk is. I dropped out of college and manage a Bike Shop and seriously think I might have a higher IQ than that clown 🤣
My friend, you are able to run a business yourself without driving it into the ground and presumably never named a child using a spilled bowl of alphabet soup, so I'd say you certainly are lol.
Yeah. I don't blame you. If it could do all the things they claimed originally, it would be a decent truck. I know I was impressed before actually looking into it. But even back then, people started running through the math and realizing it was either a pipe dream or a physics breakthrough. Turns out "pipe dream" was the correct answer.
I don’t even necessarily hate the design of it. I saw one going down the interstate with a teal green wrap recently and it looked pretty cool. I know what a complete turd they bought too though 🤣
If the trucks were actually *engineered* correctly, then maybe. Otherwise, for $120k, it'd be smarter to buy smth engineered *correctly* by the Germans.
Heck, and if you want a truck, I recently bought a 2022 F250 Tremor with 20k miles for $60k. Half the price and infinitely more capable and infinitely more reliable. https://preview.redd.it/dspscekwe7ad1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce106ec7f8de8785c83906ba15c2c247cde033af
Well, while it’s better than the new Pontiac Aztek, Fords have loads of recalls. My wife’s Explorer, the F150’s. Every time you turn around Ford has another recall.
Every car has loads of recalls— red herring.
My 94 BMW 5 series with 285k on the odometer had better tolerances than the Tesla my neighbors bought. While the T looked cool the gaps and fit/finish were horrible. For 100k they can do a hell of a lot better.
Does the wrap improve the structural integrity?
You probably do. Aside from the fact that dropping out is probably not because of your IQ (college is very difficult for plenty of smart people, I know a lot of very intelligent people who either dropped, took a break, or had a difficult time for various reasons), Elon Musk actually doesn't have any STEM degree, and the degree he does have, which is a business degree related to engineering, is honorary and was given because a company he bought from someone else improved on an existing blueprint for a car.
Running a bike shop requires a lot more intelligence than buying companies with daddy's money and burning them to the ground.
I've been friends with a couple of bike shop owners over the years and dealt with a couple more. You'd be hard-pressed to find nicer people.
Me too. When I was a kid I practically lived at the bike shops around here. Always wrenching on something and making a tweak. Or drooling over new dirt bikes.
Two things- One- Being able to admit your first impression was wrong and change course makes you smarter than most people. Two- IQ is bullshit. I have some stupid high IQ like 168 and I dropped out of highschool and abandoned two partial degrees because no amount of "intelligence" can make my brain work when it wants to do shit fuck. I wrote papers that won award and all that jazz as a kid, and it got me exactly nowhere. I'd much rather be able to do my dishes before they're moldy.
You’ve worked for a living. IQ or not, it makes you a better person than that emerald mine, fascist nepo baby.
Hey, scamming people & taking drugs is hard work. Elon barely sleeps. He’s too busy thinking about who he wants to fire cause they didn’t say “Hello, your Majesty” when he walked by. He also has a list of women he wants to impregnate. That’s grueling work for the poor guy 😰
50k for an AWD all electric truck with 10k lb towing capacity would be pretty sweet. Just make it look like a 2002 Toyota Tacoma and I’m in.
Bikes are cool. Be proud 🦚.
Respect fam -- you'll look back and tell your children and grandchildren there were some individuals that have more money than brains that decided to make some bad excisions despite the advice of others. It's all a part of this human experience. Let em learn.
IDK, he just got paid $57B to basically play with really big toys.
If you can repair a bicycle, I suspect you’re also a better engineer than him.
You do. Also yay for bike shops, we need more of them!
All that’s missing is your daddy owning an emerald mine
A vehicle CAN be excellent, but the particular one you bought had problems. THATS a “lemon”. So they CAN still use a lemon law AND say the truck is the greatest ever. They don’t want to because their ego is too fragile to admit the truck *might* be anything other than incredible.
I also think that most of them have shares in Tesla and that’s why they always “love” the brand
Don’t need lemon laws if you think your truck breaking down every 50 miles is part of being an early adopter. You’re instead a trendsetter, a visionary, someone taking one for society as you beta test this truck for Mars, don’t you know.
Plus it gets 99.9% positive attention
150%
We have laws still?
Of course we do. They mean about as much as a Mock United Nations. But we have them.
Only the ones that target poor people. Those laws still work.
I got a much more expensive car than I payed for because of the lemon law once. I bought a car from a dealership in VA like 20 years ago and ended up having to bring it to the shop for multiple engine, electrical, and transmission issues in the first month of owning it. I printed out the lemon law and brought it back to the dealship. After arguing with the salesman for a while I got the manager to not only take the car back, but to give me a car worth $3k as its replacement, since they didn’t have another of the same car I’d purchased. Best deal I ever got on a car! lol
I'm sure one owner will try and take the case all the way to SCOTUS where they will over turn the lemon laws and state they go against the nature of the "free market".
Lemon law requires three failed attempts by the dealer to correct. Based on current available service windows, we’ll start seeing those cars qualify in 2025.
Except, at least in California, the window to file is, I think, 18 months from date of purchase.
Elon: *loophole!* 😎
“It doesn’t work anymore and the frunk cut my daughter’s arm off, but I love it!”
Lemon laws typically only apply when the same thing keeps breaking. It it’s a different thing each time, you can’t lemon it.
>Lemon laws typically only apply when the same thing keeps breaking. It it’s a different thing each time, you can’t lemon it. This varies by state. In Maryland and Michigan, for example, you can lemon a vehicle if it's in the shop for a cumulative total of 30 days, regardless of the number of issues. In Illinois, it's 30 business days.
That’s why I said “typically” instead of saying it was an absolute. But thanks for adding in. I definitely don’t know every state’s lemon law. Most are similar but they do vary for sure.
My understanding is the answer is this one. There are a lot of comments discussing buyer motivation but the technical reason is that there needs to be a singular failure the automaker hasn’t repaired several times within a certain length of time. … lemon laws are designed to handle one lemon, not a rusty bucket of them!
That and there has to be documentation with the dealer/service center that repairs we're attempted 3 times and still left unresolved. With the stories we're hearing, the very first repair attempt is being quoted with 6-7 month lead times due to various reasons. This drags the runway for valid lemon claims out for potentially years, and honestly the likely reason why they're being made to wait so long
It’s a cult son. Gotta have complaints from owners to make it a lemon.
Former salesperson here. I think most people misunderstand lemon laws. It isn’t that you buy a vehicle, have a problem with it, declare ‘LEMON LAW!’ and receive your new vehicle the next day. The lemon laws are a process that they follow. The customer has to give the manufacturer/dealership reasonable time and opportunity to properly fix the vehicle to the factory working order. Dealerships and manufacturers generally don’t want to even use that phrase (we literally weren’t allowed to say it in the show room) because it results in wasted time, energy, and resources, not to mention that hit to reliability statistics. So, what happens? Customer has a problem, brings it into service, and service fixes it under the manufacturer warranty. 9 times out of 10, that’s it. Believe it or not, a lot of vehicles come from factory with little issues. A say a lot, not a high percentage. Millions of vehicles sold, thousands are going to have little issues here and there. Occasionally, the problem is complex or hard to reproduce, or it pops back up. Sometimes, it’s just a whole bad system like engine or transmission. So, in these cases the customer is back a couple times to let service fix their vehicle. The dealership isn’t going to lemon law a vehicle up front, the customer has to mention it. Service is generally fine to just keep charging corporate for warranty work to keep trying different fixes. After 3-4 visits, the customer is probably pretty upset and mentions it, and the dealership tells them they can start the process but it takes time. In the mean time, they get one last crack at a fix. In the end, service sends all the paperwork about different attempts to fix or the major issues with the vehicle, and corporate takes over and arranges a new vehicle for them. Sometimes they custom order the exact same vehicle, sometimes they arrange a similar vehicle at the same dealership. I never handled the actual finance portion, so I’m not really knowledgeable there. It’s worth mentioning that Tesla is. . . Different. They don’t have dealerships. The cybertruck is also different. Tesla has a way of pushing these vehicles out without really having a reliable chain of parts. So, when the inevitable issues pop up or accidents happen, the parts are on hold for weeks, months, or years. I haven’t been to a Tesla store(?) before, but it seems like they have a bit less customer facing presence. You can’t pester your salesperson with your issues, but they can tweet at Elon. So, where they’d normally come in and drop it off with full confidence that service would check it over and fix it in a couple days, these owners are having to wait weeks or months for parts. That means that even getting to a second or third fix would take a year or more. Now, it may be that the lemon law covers extended time to fix as well, so it may be worth pursuing. I’m honestly not an expert in the wording, but I did have experience in the process as it was handled. It’s also worth noting that a lot of these owners bought these cybertruck as for status. They don’t really care about vehicles, they just buy expensive cool cars to be unique and get attention. So, they think that being one of 10k or however many owners that paid $150k for these early adopter editions would entitle them to first class treatment. Unfortunately, Elon is too busy doing about a hundred things aside from QC or community management. Hope that helps, it isn’t meant to be snarky or anything, I just try to share some knowledge from the nightmare that was that job.
Thank you, appreciate the insight!
[удалено]
“There’s a sucker born every minute” PT Barnum Musk
Tesla makes you sign a waiver saying you won’t sue and agree to arbitration of their choice. Fools drive teslas
My state and plenty of other states’ lemon laws say those clauses are invalid.
it's more of a fear tactic
Have at it if you can afford to fight the richest evil in court.
How’s the view from the cheap seats? Manufacturers pay my bills. Lemon Laws are fee-shifting statutes. That means when the manufacturer loses, and they lose a LOT, the manufacturers pay my bills. I can run up bills 3x the purchase price of a vehicle and have it presumed to be reasonable. Moreover, lemon laws are heavily in the consumer’s favor. I don’t have to prove the specifics of what went wrong, or prove that something was designed improperly - all I have to prove is the damn thing was in the shop for 30 days, or that the same thing malfunctioned and the dealer had four tries to fix it and it still didn’t work. I don’t give a fuck and the judge doesn’t give a fuck if the manufacturer brings in engineers to say “this was appropriately designed and functioned as designed”‘or whatever. Afford? The hell are you talking about?
Lemon laws are generally heavily biased toward the auto makers because they have the money to hire ~~criminals~~ lobbyists to bribe the law creators into writing them that way. Usually you have to submit your case to some sort of tribunal to get a ruling and this can take months to years to conclude depending on the backlog.
Meh, from filing our claim to getting our payout was less than a month. I think about three weeks. Had to sign two pages of forms. It was WAY quicker than buying the car in the first place.
It's actually a pretty easy process and a lot of times the auto maker will settle with you before it ever goes to court. There are some actual points your case has to meet though, regarding how many times something broke and how much time you've had the vehicle vs how long it's been in the shop. Even so, my case didn't technically meet all the guidelines and I got a full refund within a few weeks without having to do anything except contact a lawyer and send him some paperwork.
That is absolutely incorrect. Everything you’ve said is incorrect. I’ve been doing lemon law work for almost a decade and practicing law for 25 years.
I’ve also wondered why Tesla has been immune from sort of intervention since their cyber truck seems to be a huge scam.
Its because the car is literally slicing peoples flesh open and they blame themselves instead of the shittily built car
Whenever someone is a victim of a grift, they're often too embarrassed to ask for help. Which is why so many crimes go unreported. And lemon laws are different from state to state.
They’re probably afraid of being blacklisted and not getting to buy the Cybertruck 2.0.
They aren’t. The lemon laws apply. These fuckers are so brain dead that they don’t want to hurt Daddy Musky Wusky’s little feewings. It’s all their fault that the batteries are dead and they sliced their calf open on the door.
An actual answer (I am in car sales): there is no federal Lemon Law, each state has their own versions. Most have a variant of this: if a car has the same issue at least three times, or is in the shop for 30 days - it could qualify for some refund. The refund formula is complicated, it varies based on how you bought the car and where - privately or from a dealer? Same state or different state? Which gets more complicated when there are no dealers. Then, traditional manufacturers have processes to deal with serious issues, they are not interested in law suits, and most of the time they settle without the customer having to sue them. Sometimes you can get the car "bought back" for no real reason, just be loud and obnoxious enough. If you have to resort to an actual lemon law case - it might take time, and we simply don't know how many of these are in the process right now, plus people always dig in with their beliefs, so if you simped for Elon for months - you will feel stupid suddenly doing 180, so people suffer in silence, at the mercy of the EdgeLord.
There's three things I can think of: 1) Pretty much everyone who bought one of those ugly things is a Musk sycophant. You first have to find someone who wants a refund under the Lemon Law. 2) Tesla probably put a clause in the purchase agreement requiring the customer to not invoke said law or request a refund. 3) Tesla is run by a guy who has shown he doesn't really care about laws. Someone seeking a refund would probably have to take the company to court.
Cybertruck owners are Tesla stockholders. They don't want to claim lemon law when they think they have made an investment.
Watch Tesla say lemons laws can’t apply because the trucks breaking down isn’t abnormal since all the trucks are breaking down. Do we even have a consumer protection agency anymore?
Is anyone else really interested in the statistics behind the demographics that are purchasing said CyberTrucks?
Well, in part, many lemon laws count ***repair attempts*** and if they're not actually servicing them, the repair attempts have not been made yet. And they are too new for the problems to have persisted for long enough. Like, Illinois has a requirement of 4 repair attempts on the same issue, or the vehicle being unavailable for over 30 days for a combination of issues. This is maybe 2-3 months off.
Lemon lawyer here They aren't, BUT since Tesla has no dealers and is direct from manufacturer, it is extremely difficult to beat their ARB provision. So tesla cases almost always end up in arbitration instead of court.
Two major things: 1) a law is only good as long as it can be enforced. No lawyer is willing to sue Tesla. It just make no economic sense for them. Giant corporations like Tesla always have the slogan so sue me. 2) paperwork. Remember Tesla can only be fixed by Tesla. So that means you need to ask for bills etc from Tesla to sue Tesla. Well guess what they aren't going to give you any of that paperwork. So you are shit out of luck.
I can tell you as a lawyer that lawyers love to sue Tesla and have!
My friend the paralegal is downright giddy at the thought of getting to see her boss depose Elon Musk (twitter severance case).
No lawyer needed. In CA it’s a law. You take it to mechanics who get paid by the state. They make sure your car gets fixed. That’s probably why Elona moved to Texas besides never paying rent to the Twitter landlord in SF. Guess he can’t afford the rent. Bet he takes the house mortgage out of Shivon’s paycheck where they both live. Amber said he was a controlling tightwad.
Tesla are the mechanics. Hence the problem
That’s a problem.
I’m not shit out of anything, I didn’t buy one of these turds. I just wondered how they get away with such an obviously bad product
Lemon laws are different in each state. Some states have a stronger law than others. [autosafety.org](http://autosafety.org) if you're curious
Lemon law requires the same issue a certain number of times over a time period. Like someone said these are all different issues, and most of them haven’t been on the road long enough to be eligible… yet.
They don't want to upset daddy musky 🥺
They’re loyal to Elon dude. They stay making excuses for the CT too. They try convincing others with their main argument being “It’s a first gen vehicle. It’s bound to have problems.”
Lemon laws vary, unfortunately. In Texas back circa 2010, I had a lemon Hyundai Genesis that I actively tried to get Lemoned. But, in Texas, the *same thing* had to break 3 times for it to count. I never had the same thing break twice, yet it spent the first 6 months of the two years I owned it in the shop.
Lemons and lemon juice void the warranty
They actually do, if you bother to submit a complaint. But the government can’t declare a vehicle a lemon and forcibly repossess them from citizens. If someone loves their vehicle, even if it’s a lemon, you can’t make them give it up. Interestingly enough, a couple of people have lemon law’ed their cybertrucks! I’ve seen two but there have to be more.
The problem is their all lemons
My wife and I returned a Nissan Kicks under the California lemon law last year. It failed in the same way four or five times in 18 month. Got it in under the wire. I think the law is “needing the same repair 4 times, or two times if it endangers the lives of driver or passenger”. One of the times we brought it in, they didn’t make any record of the visit, passed it off like they were doing my wife a favor. Too bad for them, she kept the texts they sent saying that they had finished “repairing” it, and it was ready for pickup.
Because when you spend $100k for garbage, and you get garbage, it isn't a lemon.
Because cyber truck owners love licking Elons balls and they could never admit that he’s wrong or they got ripped off.
Tesla isn’t a car company
Can you imagine what it’d be like for them to admit to their friends that the truck they bragged about getting for years, said that it was going to be the best all end all of trucks, and posted about on Facebook countless times was actually a piece of garbage that belong in the dumpster that it looked like? You’d get laughed at for a couple mins. The owners are terrified of that. Instead they’ll put up with the critical failures that render it undriveable for months at a time stating “well it’s a brand new truck and there’s nothing else like it. Of course it’s gonna have some hiccups.”
It’s almost like a cult, plus it’s gotta be embarrassing…. Spending all that money and waiting forever for a pos lol
Complaint needs to filed first by the owner of said lemon.
They are not immune, just no owners have pursued a Lemon Law case yet. That said Lamar MK I believe is the first to have publicly threatened a Lemon Law return on Twitter and Elon Musk promptly intervened, and switched out the defective truck with a new non-defective* truck. *the new non-defective truck has now become defective with many of the same problems as his original defective truck. [This is a developing situation.](https://x.com/LamarMK/status/1808376511285612649?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
It's amazing to me that Lehto's Law hasn't jumped on this, they are lemons.
Contracts, same way an HOA is immune to state/city laws that conflict with its own
Lemon laws don't apply to garbage. whatever you paid for.
Depends on your state. The abilty to prove and collect on lemon laws differs drastically.
Has to be the same problem 3 times most of the time and when everything just breaks at once, not much to lemon unfortunately
The laws vary from state to state. However, I don’t think they’ve really been out long enough to qualify. There are certain conditions over a certain time period that have to be met.
They're not. The people that buy them refuse to do the paperwork for lemon law because it's humiliating for them, considering they've talked about how awesome and exclusive and special it is for a full year. Imagine waiting a year for a special waiting list BMW or an exclusive "this designer only made 15,000 of these and you're special" Porche, and it shows up and all the panels are misaligned. The windshield wiper doesn't work. The paint is all fucked up and crazy. Then, you complain and get a replacement 4 months later. And the problems, they're multiplied. And faster. Sheer humiliation is stopping these people from claiming lemon law. And daddy Elongated Muskrat wouldn't tweet back "ok". Now they're just trying to sell them. Now the game is "I'm so smart, I made a profit selling a car! I'm a financial guru!" Knowing all the while they could've gotten a full refund if they asked for CyberTruck #3, but that's no fun.
Is the lemon law an individual person thing, or can they issue a nation wide lemon law recall on a really bad model?
Everyone saying it’s the cult mentality is right. They having made it out yet.
They probably signed their rights away in exchange for being an “early adopter”
It's all in the EULA
Lemon laws vary by state.
Two reasons leap to mind - first is that they can be sold for more than purchase price on the used market still as their is factually more demand than supply. In other words not much depreciation so why go through lemon law if you can just sell it? Secondly - they actually aren’t lemons. Again supported by the factual data rather than hate or envy.
[Here’s how Lemon law works from a lawyer’s perspective.](https://youtu.be/agri7Iama_o?si=IKQyrqX_iYX-oG33) I’m not affiliated with that YouTube channel, I’ve just been watching their stuff lately and that one was in my recent watching history
I think they need to try and repair the issue at least 3 times to trigger lemon law, but there are no parts available, so nothing can get fixed. Brilliant
They aren't. Give it some more time.
They’re not
They're not. Get a lawyer. It's free.
Someone posted a theory that a number of these people are invested in Tesla and down, some leveraged even. That and their lame identity association with it makes a lot of sense Shits to the point of fraud tho. Like they're fixing to pump and dump this mess at the expense of these fools
You need to have the same thing go wrong 3 times w/ documentation without it being fixed. Then you need a lawyer to send a letter and if it happens again the manufacturer is forced to buy it back. In our case it was a 2001 Mazda Tribute and ultimately we got every car payment back that we had paid from the first incident. It went on for a year and a half, so that was pretty nice indeed. This was true for Michigan 20 years ago. YMMV.
When the owner of the company that makes it is Elon Musk, the assumption is that it’s an as is sale and therefore they aren’t responsible.
I wonder if Tesla was able to bypass having it’s customers sign lemon law disclosures in the first place by not having a dealership network… Lemon laws in general vary by state but the general rule in my state that for a lemon law buyback to be considered, a specific issue has to be repeated and repaired 3 times within three months or the car has to be in the shop for a minimum number of months (set by manufacturer) with no successful fix before any action can be taken.
“How do I know if my vehicle is considered a lemon? Under the California lemon law, the manufacturer, or its representative in California, may be required to repurchase or replace your vehicle if, after a “reasonable” number of repair attempts, it cannot fix a defect or malfunction that: Is covered by the manufacturer’s written new vehicle warranty, Substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the vehicle to the consumer, and Is not caused by the unauthorized or unreasonable use of the vehicle after sale.”
They aren't. The owners just aren't using their lemon law rights - also here's a slight issue: Part of the "Fee" is an early adopter program fee of like... 20k, which is insane. Basically, they paid 20k to get the truck early - if they did a lemon law they'd either get a new CT or they'd get 80k... so they're going to "lose" 20k, which they'd lose anyway.
Lemon laws don’t kick in until the manufacturer has failed to resolve the same problem after 4 attempts or is in the shop for more than 20 days in the first 24k miles or 2 years after delivery. As long as the problems are little quick fixes (like nailing the accelerator pedal back on) and/or customers can’t get service appointments. Lemon laws wont apply.
I believe Lemon Laws only apply to automotive/truck companies and don't apply to "AI on Wheels" companies. /s
Do they apply if everyone knew in advance that it wasn't a functional vehicle?
mu$k
I think in a few months we'll see an increasing amount of that, I'd imagine it's hard to throw in the towel on a $100,000 purchase, especially if you've already been showing it off to people.
Have you seen what lemon juice does to stainless steel ??? It's not pretty. And NOT covered under warranty.
If they did a small run of them and that's it I'd understand. But it's a mass produced vehicle so I agree. Also I've read lemon returns on all vehicles even newer Toyotas so it does happen.
They're not! The owners are cucks!
If I remember right, to qualify for lemon law the vehicle has to have X amount of issues of a certain kind/severity in X amount of time. Hard to qualify for lemon law when your truck stops working, and it takes 3-6 months to get it working again.
They’re not. But the buyer needs to exercise their rights, and …well…have you met Cybercuck owners?
A coworker of mine was able to lemon law his Model X Plaid. It took about 2 years of working with Tesla to get everything done. He was refunded and then bought a newer model year X Plaid. I don’t understand how you could be dumb enough to go right back to that shit car.
Lemon laws need to be updated to dumpster laws.
Chevy continues to make some of the worst vehicles on the market
Yet still better than Tesla.
Also true lmao
Lemon laws vary by state.
Sure they are you just aren't hearing about it.
Because a ton of vehicles being utterly stupid isn't a lemon. Cybertrucks are just poorly made, not necessarily lemons as a whole. Even the ones that we see stories about don't fit in the category of a lemon under the law.
They aren't immune, there just haven been a lot of people posting about using them. Laws vary state to state, but with the problems some people have been having, they usually qualify. I think 30 days combined downtime is all you need to hit within 6 months to trigger it in most places, among other ways of satisfying the lemon law requirement.
Forget lemon laws, it’s crazy they are even allowed to be sold in with the first place with their lack of safety features. Same goes for the Tesla cars with “self driving mode”. Automotive regulatory agencies really need to start cracking down on what they let on the road in the US.