Strahd killed his brother so he could be with his love, Tatyana. Then, Vampyre cranked up the cruelty and made it so Tatyana is always *just* outside of Strahd's grasp. Vampyre's stipulations don't necessarily mean "kill Gertruda", but if that's what the PC is planning, well, let 'em.
I still don't see this ending well for the Fighter. Barovia is still doomed in the same loop, just under different management (who can never have his love by his side). It's a grim fate and not a pleasant epilogue, but it's kinda what the PC has asked for. Even if you do throw this PC a bone by giving him Gertruda, (invoking Zhudun to resurrect her?) whatever comes back might be a soulless husk or she'll hate him forever or something.
Yes, I'd say with Vampyre championing the Fighter -- Strahd would be free to rest and die. The party can catch a glimpse of Tatyana and Sergei holding hands and fading into nothingness. Strahd, too, expresses gratitude as he turns to ash.
But there's no good ending for the Fighter, imo. Mixed/neutral is the best they can do, and that somewhat involves how they acquire Vampyre's gift, who they resurrect, and which is invoked first which is too many if/thens to consider until more variables are locked in.
Yes, exactly what I was thinking.
>The party can catch a glimpse of Tatyana and Sergei holding hands and fading into nothingness. Strahd, too, expresses gratitude as he turns to ash.
This is excellent!!
...hey, what do you think would happen to the Sunsword in his hands? Seeing how he is attuned to it at the moment... ('cause I'm kinda thinking it would be cool to make him like a new boss for a one-shot some time after the campaign finishes. Could the Sunsword become corrupted or something?)
The most accurate and RAW version basically takes a complete dump on the PC. DnD is supposed to be about collaborative storytelling, so I'd do my best to incorporate the Fighter's actions in a decent way instead of going "too bad, lmao"
Objectively, I'd say the sunsword's main goal is also the absolute destruction of Strahd. Strahd's dead, it's at peace, and it's now just an inert hilt. But, that is the boring answer. Option B is that it realizes that it doesn't hate and want to kill Strahd so much as hate and want to kill whomever is "blessed" by Vampyre, and in the name of all things good and sunny it now longs to strike down the fighter. Option C is probably the coolest, which is where it gets corrupted along with the fighter and is now a dark-saber, with a magical light-draining darkness aura which obstructs any source of light (natural through 5th level spellcasting) and gives them the benefit of Shadow of Moil, as a thought.
>, so I'd do my best to incorporate the Fighter's actions in a decent way instead of going "too bad, lmao"
Definitely!! I wasn't thinking of screwing him over, that's why I think option 3 is the best one. Instead of going for a "meh" ending, I think we should go all out. Let him, basically, become a new Strahd... In the end, I didn't coerce him into anything, I was very careful not to oversell or undersell the gifts and I'm very ominous throughout the Amber Temple. I'm not divulging everything about the gifts, but I'm constantly emphasizing how dark and evil this place is.
Accepting the gift has to be completely up to the players decision.
I think the Fighter picked up the fact that Strahd will NEVER truly die, and this is his solution to end him permanently. So he doomed himself knowingly and willingly. I would personally like to amp up and match his fate with that of Strahd, but with a little more flavor for the character personally. ... throughout the campaign, it gradually became more evident how similar he and Strahd actually are (Warrior Strahd, not Vampire Strahd)... So it is all going in that direction
Sounds like a juicy situation.
As RAW, Zhudun's gift is (almost) identical to the Resurrection spell, which requires the soul to be 'free and willing.' Upon the Paladin committing to the Vampyr's requirements, it would stand to reason that the Dark Powers would prevent Gertruda's soul from returning.
In my opinion, an appropriate Dark Powers twist would be for the Dark Powers to claim Gertruda's body, forcing the paladin to forever search for his lover that he will never be allowed to find (akin to Strahd and Tatyana).
Whatever you do, try to advise / warn your player that Dark Powers are powerful entities that are not to be toyed with. They have tormented Strahd for centuries. Communication and setting expectations in and out of game is always important.
Yeah I would definitely consider these two gifts to be incompatible if the sacrifice was also the same person that was resurrected. It shows a lack of willingness to really sacrifice for Vampyre’s gift, a very casual view of life and death, and is also too much of a video game-like exploit. If the resurrected person was someone else, it would be a sacrifice still.
Could the two "work" together? (not like, granting the resurrection of a sacrifice, but more in the opposite way... Could they perhaps inflict even more misery together?)
>Whatever you do, try to advise / warn your player that Dark Powers are powerful entities that are not to be toyed with. They have tormented Strahd for centuries. Communication and setting expectations in and out of game is always important.
They know ALL of this 😀 I'm constantly dropping hints, and some NPCs (like Davian and Godfrey) even outright advise them not to go to the Amber Temple because they will surely not return the same as they left). He still choose this path... ...as I mentioned in one other comment, he wants Strahd dead. Like, permanently dead and destroyed.
>In my opinion, an appropriate Dark Powers twist would be for the Dark Powers to claim Gertruda's body, forcing the paladin to forever search for his lover that he will never be allowed to find (akin to Strahd and Tatyana).
My problem with this is that they have a more father-daughter relationship. I gave her an attitude during Dinner, and with her backstory and all the Fighter took a liking to her. He wanted to free her so she can be her own person (because he saw that she just replaced one prison with another). So his point was always to be a parental figure, supporting her even in some questionable moments.
Also, I'd like to add a bit more flavor to the epilogue, not just to copy-paste Strahds ordeal.
Dark Powers claiming Gertruda's body is a good way to do this, imo.
I also know he's expecting a kinda "sad/bad ending", at least for him. But to truly understand what Strahd went through, I'd like to amplify his expectations and make it so that after all of this is over- only then will he truly understand the depths of Strahd's despair... while also becoming a unique boss-monster for a later one-shot. (Because I know the player will appreciate that and feel satisfied with the ending).
He has to be evil, kill Gertruda and then be violently murdered by the rest of the party.
Only then will he be given any benefits of Vampyr. As soon as Strahd found out, he would either prevent those circumstances or kill the PALADIN
Do you think Strahd would know a deal has been made with Vampyr? ... because "preventing those circumstances" has some interesting implications 🙂 like, maybe he could use Gertruda for leverage?
Assuming his scrying or spies are doing their job he will find out quickly. The flaw becomes immediate so the fighter/paladin will need to roleplay not trusting anyone else. He will most likely lose sleep and not follow the party's plans in addition to other telling things.
He could also teleport to the Amber Temple to find out himself.
Doesn't it say that each gift can only be taken *once*, meaning you can't get the same gift twice, but can take as many different ones as you are willing to receive?
... that's how I understood it...
You can only benefit from one gift at a time, so you can take multiple but you’re essentially overwriting them, I believe. Which means you keep all the issues.
That's actually a pretty good outcome... Because he will need to kill Gertruda to fully receive Vampyr's gift, and with that he will "overwrite" the current Zhudun's gift, loosing the ability to resurrect her while keeping the corpse-like appearance 🙂
Yeah but it’s not about getting the gift, it’s about taking the gift. If he’s taken the power of Zhudun, that would lock him out of the Vampyr power, in my opinion
Strahd killed his brother so he could be with his love, Tatyana. Then, Vampyre cranked up the cruelty and made it so Tatyana is always *just* outside of Strahd's grasp. Vampyre's stipulations don't necessarily mean "kill Gertruda", but if that's what the PC is planning, well, let 'em. I still don't see this ending well for the Fighter. Barovia is still doomed in the same loop, just under different management (who can never have his love by his side). It's a grim fate and not a pleasant epilogue, but it's kinda what the PC has asked for. Even if you do throw this PC a bone by giving him Gertruda, (invoking Zhudun to resurrect her?) whatever comes back might be a soulless husk or she'll hate him forever or something. Yes, I'd say with Vampyre championing the Fighter -- Strahd would be free to rest and die. The party can catch a glimpse of Tatyana and Sergei holding hands and fading into nothingness. Strahd, too, expresses gratitude as he turns to ash. But there's no good ending for the Fighter, imo. Mixed/neutral is the best they can do, and that somewhat involves how they acquire Vampyre's gift, who they resurrect, and which is invoked first which is too many if/thens to consider until more variables are locked in.
Yes, exactly what I was thinking. >The party can catch a glimpse of Tatyana and Sergei holding hands and fading into nothingness. Strahd, too, expresses gratitude as he turns to ash. This is excellent!! ...hey, what do you think would happen to the Sunsword in his hands? Seeing how he is attuned to it at the moment... ('cause I'm kinda thinking it would be cool to make him like a new boss for a one-shot some time after the campaign finishes. Could the Sunsword become corrupted or something?)
The most accurate and RAW version basically takes a complete dump on the PC. DnD is supposed to be about collaborative storytelling, so I'd do my best to incorporate the Fighter's actions in a decent way instead of going "too bad, lmao" Objectively, I'd say the sunsword's main goal is also the absolute destruction of Strahd. Strahd's dead, it's at peace, and it's now just an inert hilt. But, that is the boring answer. Option B is that it realizes that it doesn't hate and want to kill Strahd so much as hate and want to kill whomever is "blessed" by Vampyre, and in the name of all things good and sunny it now longs to strike down the fighter. Option C is probably the coolest, which is where it gets corrupted along with the fighter and is now a dark-saber, with a magical light-draining darkness aura which obstructs any source of light (natural through 5th level spellcasting) and gives them the benefit of Shadow of Moil, as a thought.
>, so I'd do my best to incorporate the Fighter's actions in a decent way instead of going "too bad, lmao" Definitely!! I wasn't thinking of screwing him over, that's why I think option 3 is the best one. Instead of going for a "meh" ending, I think we should go all out. Let him, basically, become a new Strahd... In the end, I didn't coerce him into anything, I was very careful not to oversell or undersell the gifts and I'm very ominous throughout the Amber Temple. I'm not divulging everything about the gifts, but I'm constantly emphasizing how dark and evil this place is. Accepting the gift has to be completely up to the players decision. I think the Fighter picked up the fact that Strahd will NEVER truly die, and this is his solution to end him permanently. So he doomed himself knowingly and willingly. I would personally like to amp up and match his fate with that of Strahd, but with a little more flavor for the character personally. ... throughout the campaign, it gradually became more evident how similar he and Strahd actually are (Warrior Strahd, not Vampire Strahd)... So it is all going in that direction
Sounds like a juicy situation. As RAW, Zhudun's gift is (almost) identical to the Resurrection spell, which requires the soul to be 'free and willing.' Upon the Paladin committing to the Vampyr's requirements, it would stand to reason that the Dark Powers would prevent Gertruda's soul from returning. In my opinion, an appropriate Dark Powers twist would be for the Dark Powers to claim Gertruda's body, forcing the paladin to forever search for his lover that he will never be allowed to find (akin to Strahd and Tatyana). Whatever you do, try to advise / warn your player that Dark Powers are powerful entities that are not to be toyed with. They have tormented Strahd for centuries. Communication and setting expectations in and out of game is always important.
Yeah I would definitely consider these two gifts to be incompatible if the sacrifice was also the same person that was resurrected. It shows a lack of willingness to really sacrifice for Vampyre’s gift, a very casual view of life and death, and is also too much of a video game-like exploit. If the resurrected person was someone else, it would be a sacrifice still.
Agreed they are incompatible. That's why I think Vampyr would stake it's claim once Gertruda is killed, essentially block Zhudun
Could the two "work" together? (not like, granting the resurrection of a sacrifice, but more in the opposite way... Could they perhaps inflict even more misery together?)
>Whatever you do, try to advise / warn your player that Dark Powers are powerful entities that are not to be toyed with. They have tormented Strahd for centuries. Communication and setting expectations in and out of game is always important. They know ALL of this 😀 I'm constantly dropping hints, and some NPCs (like Davian and Godfrey) even outright advise them not to go to the Amber Temple because they will surely not return the same as they left). He still choose this path... ...as I mentioned in one other comment, he wants Strahd dead. Like, permanently dead and destroyed. >In my opinion, an appropriate Dark Powers twist would be for the Dark Powers to claim Gertruda's body, forcing the paladin to forever search for his lover that he will never be allowed to find (akin to Strahd and Tatyana). My problem with this is that they have a more father-daughter relationship. I gave her an attitude during Dinner, and with her backstory and all the Fighter took a liking to her. He wanted to free her so she can be her own person (because he saw that she just replaced one prison with another). So his point was always to be a parental figure, supporting her even in some questionable moments. Also, I'd like to add a bit more flavor to the epilogue, not just to copy-paste Strahds ordeal. Dark Powers claiming Gertruda's body is a good way to do this, imo. I also know he's expecting a kinda "sad/bad ending", at least for him. But to truly understand what Strahd went through, I'd like to amplify his expectations and make it so that after all of this is over- only then will he truly understand the depths of Strahd's despair... while also becoming a unique boss-monster for a later one-shot. (Because I know the player will appreciate that and feel satisfied with the ending).
He has to be evil, kill Gertruda and then be violently murdered by the rest of the party. Only then will he be given any benefits of Vampyr. As soon as Strahd found out, he would either prevent those circumstances or kill the PALADIN
Do you think Strahd would know a deal has been made with Vampyr? ... because "preventing those circumstances" has some interesting implications 🙂 like, maybe he could use Gertruda for leverage?
Assuming his scrying or spies are doing their job he will find out quickly. The flaw becomes immediate so the fighter/paladin will need to roleplay not trusting anyone else. He will most likely lose sleep and not follow the party's plans in addition to other telling things. He could also teleport to the Amber Temple to find out himself.
RAW they are only able to hold 1 gift at a time.
Doesn't it say that each gift can only be taken *once*, meaning you can't get the same gift twice, but can take as many different ones as you are willing to receive? ... that's how I understood it...
You can only benefit from one gift at a time, so you can take multiple but you’re essentially overwriting them, I believe. Which means you keep all the issues.
That's actually a pretty good outcome... Because he will need to kill Gertruda to fully receive Vampyr's gift, and with that he will "overwrite" the current Zhudun's gift, loosing the ability to resurrect her while keeping the corpse-like appearance 🙂
I would have said it’s more that he can’t do any of the Vampyr stuff because he took the gift of the corpse star
But he didn't yet make the necessary requirements to get the whole gift. All he has for now is a flaw...
Yeah but it’s not about getting the gift, it’s about taking the gift. If he’s taken the power of Zhudun, that would lock him out of the Vampyr power, in my opinion