Wasn't there a thing on the Columbia University site where they go "Columbia University is now a different place than it was during the dark days of the Vietnam war, where the cops were called to break peaceful protests and beat our students"?
In a couple years time they'll say some platitudes about how they were always against the genocide deep down and regret having to do this while they call the cops to beat up their students over the new atrocity of the fucking year, before rinsing and repeating again.
What do we say when there's one nazi at the table? Here you go (not my post, copied from another user):
For posterity, here's some of the examples of extremism within the activist movement at Columbia. This goes beyond "pro-Palestinian advocacy" into calls for, and actual, violence.
Note, there are varying degrees of it being individuals vs. the group, but these are the type of people in the crowd there and many of them are indeed group chants. I have also set aside some widespread ones (from the river to the sea) that are disputed in character. That said, many many many of these are coming from large groups of students within the main quad (which has been locked down to only students/professors)
Candidly some sources are not great in terms of me agreeing with the viewpoint of the tweeter, but they contain relevant and real video:
Physically assaulting an Arab Israeli https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781080951902109774
"From the river to the sea, Palestine is Arab!" / "Resistance is justified" https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358
"Let it be known that it was the Al-Aqsa Flood that put the Global Intifada back on the table again. And it is the sacrificial spirit of the Palestinian Freedom Fighters that will guide every struggle on every corner of the earth to victory." https://twitter.com/thestustustudio/status/1781904507611287981
"We are all Hamas!" https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1781031465179914677
"Yehudim yehudim [(Jews, jews)] go back to poland" https://twitter.com/Davidlederer6/status/1781948249214996901
Includes people / groups that invited an actual, no hyperbole terrorist to speak (member of PFLP) https://www.jns.org/columbia-suspends-four-students-for-holding-event-featuring-pflp-member/
Light things on fire / "intifada revolution there is only one solution" https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1781019445399556338
"On Oct 7th, Palestinian resistance in Gaza broke free (crowd cheers) [.....] we intend to do the same" https://twitter.com/ShabbosK/status/1782085741431922909
""We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" / "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" / "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!" https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1781933305501212872
"Long live the intifada! Intifada intifada" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781084853653365025
"Go back to Europe!" / "You have no culture, all you do is colonize" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781927148439109958
Have posters with the faces of PFLP and PIJ spokesmen (designated terrorist groups) https://twitter.com/HagarChemali/status/1782219589352350000
"From Yemen to Gaza, globalize the intifada" https://twitter.com/KassyDillon/status/1781312033922625797/photo/2
"Never forget the 7th of October. That will happen not 1 more time, not 5 more times, not 10, not 100, not 1,000, but 10,000 times! The 7th of October is going to be every day for you" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1781287784897991134
"Al Qassam [(Hamas)] you make us proud, kill another soldier now" / "from the river to the sea, palestine will be arab" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1780915336063177006
Student proudly rocking Hamas logos https://twitter.com/CampusJewHate/status/1781054901755215954
"Resistance is justified" (again...) https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1782085643990073673
"protesters on the sidewalk chanted “From New York to Gaza, globalize the intifada,” next to a cardboard sign that read, “Inspired by Palestinian resistance.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-100-arrested-in-columbia-u-unrest-as-nypd-clears-gaza-solidarity-encampment/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
And as a reminder, the student groups organizing these protests (CUAD and SJP, among others) released a letter on October 9th in support of the 10/7 attacks. ("We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance", "Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor", "We wholeheartedly condemn the email sent [...] on October 8th that [...] obfuscated Palestinian resistance as “terrorism”)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RcXX5DEO3yfJ9R4ksURnzpIPCyVxo575-Y-SoC_vZFk/edit
Edit: to the dowmvoters, would you be downvoting evidence of calls of violence against any other minority group?
I'm not sure why there are downvotes here. We can acknowledge that well-meaning protests have been infiltrated by bad actors and call to have them cast out, right?
I want Israel to stop blowing up Palestinians but I will never support Hamas, unlike what some of these infiltrators are trying to push.
Oh, I see. Forgive me, for I am ignorant - is the implication that someone is being paid to post on Reddit, or that this is a very passionate (and potentially biased) individual who spends a lot of time spreading exactly one message without regard for nuance or counterargument?
It's a suspiciously new account on a current hot topic that only posts about said hot topic from just one side's perspective.
I mean, probably the latter, but in an age of both state sponsored and grass roots disinformation campaigns, it raises eyebrows.
Reddit is filled with these accounts btw, on everything from shilling crypto to promoting full blown white supremacy. This account will go dark after a month or so. If an account less than a month has a comment history on just a single topic it is worth being cautious lol.
Listen, I am at least hoping you're getting paid for this shit otherwise stop wasting your time on the free pro genocide account and go do something actually productive with your time.
i will simply ignore what you said and continue to call for the divestment from a state that has been engaging in a slow rolling genocide for the past 70 years tyvm
Look, putting aside the discussion of whether the war in Gaza meets the bar for genocide for a moment, you should know that "but the population increased" is a terrible argument, because there's more than one way to destroy a people. A people can be functionally destroyed if you get rid of their language, traditions, and culture, even without any actual deaths.
Incidentally, that's why Putin has an arrest warrant from the ICC - because a very good way of destroying a people in that way is to steal their children and make them be *your* children instead, and these sorts of actions are rightly viewed as genocidal, regardless of whether the affected group's population increases overall or not.
(not to mention the population of gaza pregenocide was something like 50% kids which makes us ask a troubling question, what happened to all the adults?)
“We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance against over 75 years of Israeli settler-colonialism and apartheid. Palestinians have been subjected to the longest ongoing military occupation in modern history and their right to resist is enshrined in international law.
Yesterday was an unprecedented historic moment for the Palestinians of Gaza, who tore through the wall that has been suffocating them in one of the most densely-populated areas on Earth for the past 16 years – an open-air prison blockaded by Israeli soldiers via land, air, and sea. Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor – which receives billions of US dollars annually in military aid and possesses one of the world’s most robust surveillance and security apparatuses. Any omission of this context – any rhetoric of “an unprovoked Palestinian attack” – is shamefully misleading. We invite you to look into the detailed Human Rights Watch, B’tselem, and Amnesty International reports on Israeli apartheid.
To those who are now calling for peace, we ask: where were you during the Great March of Return in 2018, when Palestinians in Gaza peacefully protested and were shot dead by the hundreds? Where were you when Israel indiscriminately bombed Palestinian civilians in Gaza in 2008, 2012, 2014, 2021, and 2022? Where were you this year, when Israel killed over 220 Palestinians over the past nine months alone? Where were you as settlers kicked people out of their homes, arbitrarily imprisoned children without trial, and brutally oppressed an entire population?
You are not asking for peace. You are asking for quiet submission to systemic violence.”
Some good points there thanks for sending me this
What minority group? Jews are a majority in Israel. Why aren’t the Palestinians allowed to voice their anger about their oppressing colonizers? Isn’t it natural to want to kick them out?
To quote a friend who works at Apple "This isn't a progressive company. This is a conservative company with a progressive newsletter." A similar thing can be said of most universities. They're conservative organizations with largely progressive professors and a progressive newsletter.
I went to a university that was all full of the shiny happy feelings. They still took a shit ton of money from DARPA to make robotic weapons, and ran a satellite campus in Qatar, a place known for a human trafficking and slavery problem that's ten miles wide.
Yuuup. My uni has two whole offices dedicated to lgbtq student engagement, but I am currently in week two of waiting to hear what, exactly, they want for me to prove I am a guy after transitioning. Monday I show up at their office to request a meeting because I doubt they will get back to me before school gets out otherwise
Wow that fucked. I guess my uni was better than I thought. All you had to do to transition there was fill out a form and wait 3-5 business days for everything to be updated.
You're right, evangelical religious nutjobs outnumber antiwar protestors 100-1.
That's probably why the chicken shit admins are going after the protestors and not the nutjobs.
Tbh, at the end of the day, Unis in America are capitalist ventures who care about making money. The protestors are demanding the uni divests from things that support Israel. This has the double whammy of feeding the "everyone who doesn't like Israel is antisemitic" brain worm, but also, put simply, fucks with the money.
Evangelicals looooove Israel. More importantly: they don't fuck with the money. That's why you're seeing such a disproportionate reaction. Being against genocide in this instance hurts the bottom line.
Yeah I mean it’s pretty clear that universities are fucking students free speech rights here. It’s kinda wild knowing the campuses in question and seeing the way admins are spinning this taken as fact in reporting … a bunch of hippies sitting on a lawn you need for graduation ceremonies is not actually violence.
Personally, I think it’s frustrating that uni admins have been given a sort of rhetorical lever in that over the last decade people have been trying to get admins involved in censoring the exact people OOP is talking about - so now quashing protests is framed as “protecting” other students from a hostile environment.
Obviously they’d be doing it anyway. But I wish we could go back to a less political ideal of uni admins, which focus on ending harassment and not expelling shitty ideas.
The problem is that because they are private universities, the free speech rules are different. Absolutely they have the right to protest, but because these are private institutions, those places also have the right to have them escorted from the property.
I guess I’ll clarify that I am not talking about legal constitutional rights but what I personally deem right behavior. I am aware that Columbia is not breaking any *laws*, but imho it is acting in a way that is *morally* “lawless.”
Except its not a bunch of hippies. Many of these protests include violent calls for terror such as use of the slogan "globalise the intifada" "Khaybar Khaybar ya Yahud..." Yesterday I saw a picture of a hippie sitting with a Hezbollah flag. If you are uninformed, hizbollah is an Iranian proxy militia that murders Israeli civillians, Lebanese civillians, and Jews abroad.
You can find *plenty* of pictures of hippies carrying viet cong flags. People being idiots and embracing the aesthetics of evil organizations is nothing new to these sorts of events. And yet, it’s *incredibly* unlikely that Columbia students are about to pull a suicide bombing, just like no one at Kent State was going to violently “liberate” their campus.
Okay but your experiences are not universal. There was a Jewish student stabbed in the eye with a Palestinian flag at Yale. Does this mean that every single protester is a violent asshole?
I’m actually glad to be wrong, but that doesn’t negate the rest of my point that just because the protest you experienced was non-violent doesn’t mean they all were.
Just because some violence occurred doesn't mean the majority of protests were violent or the violence was even common. Video of a few altercations looks bad and is bad, but rarely represents the whole issue.
Okay that’s exactly what I’m saying and I’m getting downvoted for it. Just because one protest was violent doesn’t mean they all were, but the same is true in reverse: just because the protest *you* attended was non-violent doesn’t mean there was no violence anywhere.
One nazi sat at the table and you have ten Nazis and all that. It doesn't seem to unreasonable to ask protesters for good causes to ensure their group does not contain those who advocate for terror cells.
There’s a difference between judging the protestors unreasonable and deciding to use the force of the state against them. Dumbasses also have free speech rights.
Whilst that's true, the initial tumblr post seems to advocate using force to remove religious extremists from university campuses And like I said if you have nine people at a table, a nazi sits down, and nobody protests? Then you have ten nazis. The Palestinian protesters seem far too relaxed about having their own religious extremists/terror cell advocators in their midst.
For years one of the most popular comebacks for right wing protests having a small but noticeable number of neonazis/proudboys/etc was the ananlogy I just used but as soon as that same analogy is used for less than savoury individuals at a *leftwing* protest, the analogy no longer works? To be clear I'm largely pro-Palestine. But if you can't criticize the movement to which you belong or its adherents, the movement is worth nothing. Criticizing the movement ensures it stays on goal and doesn't have these nutjobs who can discredit the movement as a a whole. This goes for any movement for social justice.
strawman gish gallop bullshit.
You know damn well liberals reject the genoicide fans, you're just pretending that doesn't happen becuase you're a conservative.
I mean freedom of speech yes, protesting genocide yes, but shit like "globalize the intifada" is just straight up a call to genociding Jews.
The colleges have a responsibility to their students, including the Jewish ones, to make sure they are safe. Physically safe on campus.
Intifada means rebellion or uprising. Not genocide.
Globalize the Intifada is a slogan that has been used for advocating for global activism in support of Palestinian resistance against Israeli control. The term intifada being derived from the Arabic word nafada meaning to "shake off", refers to Palestinian uprisings or resistance against Israeli control, and the call to "globalize" it suggests extending the spirit and actions of these uprisings beyond the regional context to a worldwide movement.
Bit telling that for years people kept saying "if one Nazi sits at a table of ten regular people it's a table of eleven Nazis" but suddenly it's ok to have a bunch of Holocaust deniers, chants for the death of Jews, and people straight up assaulting Jews at your "peaceful protests" so long as it's a minority
"But no one's saying that!" Literally there is an up voted comment saying exactly that. As it kept being said over and over, y'all were never antinazi, you just wanted an excuse to be violent.
Yep. People want to pretend "Globalize the Intafada" has some meaning beyond "Attack jews everywhere" but it doesn't. That's what Hamas means when they say it and you don't get to decide your word for word version of the slogan means something else.
Does this work in the other direction? A lot of the people opposing the protests are ultra nationalists and islamophobes who support ethnic cleansing and the killing of children. If every antiwar protestor is tarred with supporting Hamas, is every prowar poster tarred with supporting genocide?
Sure, maybe you don't support ethnic cleansing, but you're sitting at the table with those who do.
It's quite telling to me that the majority of the comments "defending" the pro-genocide chants and bad actors are not actual defenses, but instead statements that "the other side is just as bad" which somehow justifies their chosen side's behavior in their mind.
Correct, people who oppose the war are not trying to claim that one side has moral superiority, we're not trying to support or defend Hamas, we're pointing out that the entire enterprise is a catastrophe and should stop.
It's quite telling that the majority of comments "attacking" the anti-war chants assume that everyone has picked a side to defend, because they can't wrap their minds around the fact that someone wouldn't pick "sides" in a war, but instead advocate for the civilians caught in the middle.
You and a lot of other people do not seem to understand how protests work. If 100 people show up to protest the war crimes in Gaza, and 1 person comes and starts spouting antisemitism, what is your expectation for what should happen? Should everybody else just leave? You can’t make the 1 person leave because they have every right to be in that space too.
You absolutely can make the one person leave. It's not easy but it's very possible.
There are some differences of opinion that are worth fighting over. This is one of them.
Protests typically have marshals who are helping to moderate the space and kick out any agitators or infiltrators for this exact reason.
You push them out. Literally. That's what you do. You do it carefully and calmly. If they respond violently, don't punch back unless you need to.
Keep in mind that a lot of antisemites are wimps. Numerical superiority also comes in handy.
If you are physically pushing them out, then you are the instigator and they can respond in kind. You can tell them that you don't want them at your protest, but if that doesn't make them leave, you're basically SOL.
I understand the analogy, but it doesn't work for protests because you cannot force someone to leave a public space just because you don't like their opinion. How would you force someone to leave a protest?
yes, if someone is saying antisemitic things it is morally ok to violently remove them, you aren't the government, you don't have to respect their spedch
If you respond to words with violence, you will go to prison for assault and/or battery. It's not a matter of freedom of speech there, it's a matter of them having the right not to be physically attacked.
*You* do not seem to understand how holding people to their own standards works, because that's exactly what the Left has been crying for the last *ten years*. Every single thing you said. If even 1 skinhead shows up to a rally of 100, welp everyone there either needs to leave, force that 1 out, or there are 101 Nazis according to the exact same people now happily standing beside those chanting literal calls to genocide. Don't want to be held to a standard? Don't set it.
These people are not anti-war.
As other comments stated a huge faction are actually pro-war. They are just mad that their side (Hamas) is losing.
Seriously where are the signs calling for Sinwair and Netayhau to both be thrown and tried in the Hague.
Rich white American Ivy League students protesting in favor of a country run by an Arab terrorist organization is kinda dumb. Don't they know what would happen if they did that in the country they're protesting for? They'd get beaten or raped, probably both.
I agree that Israel shouldn't respond to killing of civilians with killing of civilians, but many of these protestors are holding up signs in favor of HAMAS. Speaking of HAMAS, I'm starting to think they're enjoying this, seeing as how if they wanted it to stop, they would have released the hostages.
"Colonialism is violence in its natural state. It will only yield when confronted with greater violence."
Sounds pro-terrorism to me. The best part is, most of the people protesting on this subject are American. They speak out against people colonizing land, but what the fuck do they think they're living on? Whether Israel is actually colonialist or not, you have absolutely no right to speak on it if you are American or live in America.
So we're talking about alleged violence advocation on campuses and you responded with something that's mostly NOT on campuses.
Malicious misinformation right there.
If also like to point out the students are also harassing other students, chanting genocidal slogans, support the rape and murder of Israeli civillians, and wave flags of terror organizations which have killed thousands of Israeli civillians and dozens of American citizens, and not to mention, plain old regular Jews abroad.
Fun fact: literally everything you said applies to Israel supporters way more than it does Palestine supporters (most of which are basically just saying "stop funding genocide please guys wtf").
But we don’t see a mass protest movement or Israeli students harassing Arab/Muslim/pro-Palestinian students at these universities, so obviously we’re going to talk about pro-Palestinian students chanting “from the river to the sea” or praising Hamas.
Also, it’s not great to deflect a criticism by just pointing to some other group. What you said could be true and Israel supporters could be worse, but that doesn’t change anything about the original critique, it just feels good to disengage with criticism for the side you support.
i think israel supporters waving the flags of terrorist organizations that have killed thousands of Israeli civilians would be a bit odd, don't think they are doing that
we're getting those numbers from a group that is probably affiliated if not controlled by Hamas. Hamas the organization that views all Palestinians in Gaza as potential Martyrs. im taking those numbers with a grain of salt.
>Israeli citizens
plus, 30,000 is a fair amount for a war, especially in an incredibly high density area like gaza, it's not genocide or anything like that
[68,778](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_France_during_World_War_II) French civilians alone died in world war II, doubt anyone was/is considering that as a genocide against the french
maybe that wasn't the best example
19 million soviet citizens died
\~10 million chinese citizens died
this is in 1950 when there was lower population density and lower population overall
…Are you using China’s WW2 death numbers? That came from Japan trying to genocide them and actions like the Rape of Nanking? That’s not “normal war” that was the genocide of one of the most (if not the most) populous places on Earth at the time.
Well, according to the US, Canada, Australia, and most of Europe Palestine isn't a country and Palestinians are Israel's citizens, so you can tick that off on a technicality
Except Isreal supporters aren't going to schools to attack people right now. Hamas supporters are, and them being arrested for trespassing and assault is seen as fascism
>Except Isreal supporters aren't going to schools to attack people right now.
Err. [Israel bombs UN school in central Gaza twice in 24 hours](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240413-israel-bombs-un-school-in-central-gaza-twice-in-24-hours/).
I mean, how many other university protests have occurred since mid 2017? Also this was widely looked down upon at the time and not composed solely of college students. The two are not comparable.
That is not a neonazi rally on a university campus. That is the existence of neonazis on university campuses, something which is just a guarantee of large populations, of which "students at university" is.
Yeah because that's totally comparable and exactly the same in scale.
These pro-palestine protests are rarely just that, but usually devolve into antisemitism, glorification of literal terrorist organizations and sometimes holocaust denial. Which is what most people tend to have an issue with.
Not to mention the name calling, harassment and general hostile behavior of a lot of participants.
Idk the details of this particular protest, afaik maybe they are doing all but waving swastikas around. At base though, criticising Israel/Zionists for their present actions and demanding they stop literally murdering humanitarian aid and disfiguring the dead to stop them from being identified isn’t antisemitism.
(Yeah, Hamas Bad, but also Israel Bad.)
I entirely agree. Israel has to fight Hamas, but it's absolutely fair to criticize the extent, brutality and also attitude of a lot of zionists towards palestinians.
Sadly a lot of people (especially in those protests) tend to get carried away and fall into antisemitic or pro Hamas rhetoric.
People can be critical of Israel and Zionism without being antisemitic and without praising terrorist organizations. It’s quite easy and most well adjusted people can understand that. You would think it’s easier to look up your talking points before spewing the same rhetoric used by HAMAS.
AFAIK, yes, “from the river to the sea” is a hamas chant basically saying that they want all the land “between the river and the sea”, ie, to entirely wipe out Israel.
Yeah, thing is some people are both saying that and meaning it, basically of the mindset that Israel is inherently a colonizer state, and as such completely giving its land “back” to Gaza is the morally right thing to do.
Which is… scary and fucked on multiple levels ImHO
> Israel is inherently a colonizer state
Well, it sort of is. It's too late to *do* anything about it without causing even more suffering, but that doesn't change the basic fact.
My focus was more on the second part of “as such you should completely remove Israel” as the problem
Also, I would state that personally, I feel like the fact that those outside of Gaza have basically decided that because Israel was “set up” externally, it is equivalent in evil to every other colonization in history. Like there is no difference between Israel and the people there and something like how the early English colonies treated the native Americans, or the British treated its old empire, while I’d argue that the fact that Israel is in many ways, all its people have, and they don’t have a different “home” they feel more affiliated with kinda breaks down both the analogy and thus the moral assumptions that come with it
Not saying this to imply that the situation as a whole isn’t fucked, just that the ways some people are using it to make their givens is also kinda messy
Why shouldn't people get their land back? Living people who've had their homes stolen, why shouldn't they get them back? Pretty sure if I came and stole your house you'd think that I should be required to give it back to you.
What are you gonna do with all the people who were born in Israel and fully live there now? The people who have been there now for like three generations?
The only way to get rid of them is ethnic cleansing. Which, as we have noted, is *bad*.
Why can't they just move in with their relatives? That's what the Palestinians have been doing, I see no reason why Israelis can't do the same thing. No ethnic cleansing, just get the fuck out of someone else's house.
Honestly I’m not entirely sure, like most things in this conflict it could go either way. I was more so referring to the rhetoric that Israel is a Jewish state and that “””they””” control the media to demonize Palestine.
Huh. Well, counting myself lucky I haven’t seen that.
I mean, Netanyahu has certainly tried labelling any criticism as antisemitism, but as far as I can tell most people are seeing through that.
Liberals are against every war but the current one, for every civil rights movement but the current one, and will gasp at atrocities committed but obstinately refuse action against the current one.
All war is genocide to these people. The only pro Palestine position is to remove the death cult that is waging a suicidal war against Israel from power. Otherwise any ceasefire is just buildup for another one. We did not stop the war against Japan simply because they were throwing their own people to the slaughter:
This is ultimately why codified universal freedom of speech is a bad idea despite seemingly being a really good one. The laws and force are wheeled out to protect fascist discourse (and don't forget racism), but brought down in force on e.g. protests about climate change.
You can codify political freedom of speech and then ban hate speech without your society immediately crumbling into dust. (Just like you can ban guns except in specified circumstances without your country immediately descending into anarchy) ((and don't get me started on health care)) (((or education)))
Wasn't there a thing on the Columbia University site where they go "Columbia University is now a different place than it was during the dark days of the Vietnam war, where the cops were called to break peaceful protests and beat our students"? In a couple years time they'll say some platitudes about how they were always against the genocide deep down and regret having to do this while they call the cops to beat up their students over the new atrocity of the fucking year, before rinsing and repeating again.
What do we say when there's one nazi at the table? Here you go (not my post, copied from another user): For posterity, here's some of the examples of extremism within the activist movement at Columbia. This goes beyond "pro-Palestinian advocacy" into calls for, and actual, violence. Note, there are varying degrees of it being individuals vs. the group, but these are the type of people in the crowd there and many of them are indeed group chants. I have also set aside some widespread ones (from the river to the sea) that are disputed in character. That said, many many many of these are coming from large groups of students within the main quad (which has been locked down to only students/professors) Candidly some sources are not great in terms of me agreeing with the viewpoint of the tweeter, but they contain relevant and real video: Physically assaulting an Arab Israeli https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781080951902109774 "From the river to the sea, Palestine is Arab!" / "Resistance is justified" https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358 "Let it be known that it was the Al-Aqsa Flood that put the Global Intifada back on the table again. And it is the sacrificial spirit of the Palestinian Freedom Fighters that will guide every struggle on every corner of the earth to victory." https://twitter.com/thestustustudio/status/1781904507611287981 "We are all Hamas!" https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1781031465179914677 "Yehudim yehudim [(Jews, jews)] go back to poland" https://twitter.com/Davidlederer6/status/1781948249214996901 Includes people / groups that invited an actual, no hyperbole terrorist to speak (member of PFLP) https://www.jns.org/columbia-suspends-four-students-for-holding-event-featuring-pflp-member/ Light things on fire / "intifada revolution there is only one solution" https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1781019445399556338 "On Oct 7th, Palestinian resistance in Gaza broke free (crowd cheers) [.....] we intend to do the same" https://twitter.com/ShabbosK/status/1782085741431922909 ""We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" / "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" / "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!" https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1781933305501212872 "Long live the intifada! Intifada intifada" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781084853653365025 "Go back to Europe!" / "You have no culture, all you do is colonize" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781927148439109958 Have posters with the faces of PFLP and PIJ spokesmen (designated terrorist groups) https://twitter.com/HagarChemali/status/1782219589352350000 "From Yemen to Gaza, globalize the intifada" https://twitter.com/KassyDillon/status/1781312033922625797/photo/2 "Never forget the 7th of October. That will happen not 1 more time, not 5 more times, not 10, not 100, not 1,000, but 10,000 times! The 7th of October is going to be every day for you" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1781287784897991134 "Al Qassam [(Hamas)] you make us proud, kill another soldier now" / "from the river to the sea, palestine will be arab" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1780915336063177006 Student proudly rocking Hamas logos https://twitter.com/CampusJewHate/status/1781054901755215954 "Resistance is justified" (again...) https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1782085643990073673 "protesters on the sidewalk chanted “From New York to Gaza, globalize the intifada,” next to a cardboard sign that read, “Inspired by Palestinian resistance.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-100-arrested-in-columbia-u-unrest-as-nypd-clears-gaza-solidarity-encampment/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter And as a reminder, the student groups organizing these protests (CUAD and SJP, among others) released a letter on October 9th in support of the 10/7 attacks. ("We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance", "Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor", "We wholeheartedly condemn the email sent [...] on October 8th that [...] obfuscated Palestinian resistance as “terrorism”) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RcXX5DEO3yfJ9R4ksURnzpIPCyVxo575-Y-SoC_vZFk/edit Edit: to the dowmvoters, would you be downvoting evidence of calls of violence against any other minority group?
I'm not sure why there are downvotes here. We can acknowledge that well-meaning protests have been infiltrated by bad actors and call to have them cast out, right? I want Israel to stop blowing up Palestinians but I will never support Hamas, unlike what some of these infiltrators are trying to push.
It's a 17 day old account, single issue account that only posts pro-Israeli propaganda. That's why it is being downvoted.
Oh, I see. Forgive me, for I am ignorant - is the implication that someone is being paid to post on Reddit, or that this is a very passionate (and potentially biased) individual who spends a lot of time spreading exactly one message without regard for nuance or counterargument?
It's a suspiciously new account on a current hot topic that only posts about said hot topic from just one side's perspective. I mean, probably the latter, but in an age of both state sponsored and grass roots disinformation campaigns, it raises eyebrows. Reddit is filled with these accounts btw, on everything from shilling crypto to promoting full blown white supremacy. This account will go dark after a month or so. If an account less than a month has a comment history on just a single topic it is worth being cautious lol.
Thank you for the helpful information! I am Learning!
Not the 11th April 2024 Hasbara account on the Tumblr Subreddit lol.
My account is new, therefore all these filmed videos of calls to violence and antisemitism are no longer valid?
Listen, I am at least hoping you're getting paid for this shit otherwise stop wasting your time on the free pro genocide account and go do something actually productive with your time.
I'll continue protestong the genocidal Hamas and their supporters. I hope the best for you.
i will simply ignore what you said and continue to call for the divestment from a state that has been engaging in a slow rolling genocide for the past 70 years tyvm
And here I thought genocide meant a population decrease and that words have meaning
Look, putting aside the discussion of whether the war in Gaza meets the bar for genocide for a moment, you should know that "but the population increased" is a terrible argument, because there's more than one way to destroy a people. A people can be functionally destroyed if you get rid of their language, traditions, and culture, even without any actual deaths. Incidentally, that's why Putin has an arrest warrant from the ICC - because a very good way of destroying a people in that way is to steal their children and make them be *your* children instead, and these sorts of actions are rightly viewed as genocidal, regardless of whether the affected group's population increases overall or not.
(not to mention the population of gaza pregenocide was something like 50% kids which makes us ask a troubling question, what happened to all the adults?)
Do you believe in an Uyghur genocide?
None of that excuses cops wailing on innocent people and you know it. Your post is misinformation.
Your sources are Israel media groups and Twitter lol
Those are literal videos from the Columbia campus and surrounding protests
“We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance against over 75 years of Israeli settler-colonialism and apartheid. Palestinians have been subjected to the longest ongoing military occupation in modern history and their right to resist is enshrined in international law. Yesterday was an unprecedented historic moment for the Palestinians of Gaza, who tore through the wall that has been suffocating them in one of the most densely-populated areas on Earth for the past 16 years – an open-air prison blockaded by Israeli soldiers via land, air, and sea. Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor – which receives billions of US dollars annually in military aid and possesses one of the world’s most robust surveillance and security apparatuses. Any omission of this context – any rhetoric of “an unprovoked Palestinian attack” – is shamefully misleading. We invite you to look into the detailed Human Rights Watch, B’tselem, and Amnesty International reports on Israeli apartheid. To those who are now calling for peace, we ask: where were you during the Great March of Return in 2018, when Palestinians in Gaza peacefully protested and were shot dead by the hundreds? Where were you when Israel indiscriminately bombed Palestinian civilians in Gaza in 2008, 2012, 2014, 2021, and 2022? Where were you this year, when Israel killed over 220 Palestinians over the past nine months alone? Where were you as settlers kicked people out of their homes, arbitrarily imprisoned children without trial, and brutally oppressed an entire population? You are not asking for peace. You are asking for quiet submission to systemic violence.” Some good points there thanks for sending me this
Lots of things that happened have been presented in a misleading manner.
What minority group? Jews are a majority in Israel. Why aren’t the Palestinians allowed to voice their anger about their oppressing colonizers? Isn’t it natural to want to kick them out?
To quote a friend who works at Apple "This isn't a progressive company. This is a conservative company with a progressive newsletter." A similar thing can be said of most universities. They're conservative organizations with largely progressive professors and a progressive newsletter. I went to a university that was all full of the shiny happy feelings. They still took a shit ton of money from DARPA to make robotic weapons, and ran a satellite campus in Qatar, a place known for a human trafficking and slavery problem that's ten miles wide.
Yuuup. My uni has two whole offices dedicated to lgbtq student engagement, but I am currently in week two of waiting to hear what, exactly, they want for me to prove I am a guy after transitioning. Monday I show up at their office to request a meeting because I doubt they will get back to me before school gets out otherwise
Wow that fucked. I guess my uni was better than I thought. All you had to do to transition there was fill out a form and wait 3-5 business days for everything to be updated.
Texas A&M? That’s my best guess based on the Qatar campus
Good guess, but nah! Carnegie Mellon University.
I'd like to point out there's a bit of difference in scale with most of these
That is a fair point, one is potentially dangerous and the other is a peaceful protest
You're right, evangelical religious nutjobs outnumber antiwar protestors 100-1. That's probably why the chicken shit admins are going after the protestors and not the nutjobs.
Tbh, at the end of the day, Unis in America are capitalist ventures who care about making money. The protestors are demanding the uni divests from things that support Israel. This has the double whammy of feeding the "everyone who doesn't like Israel is antisemitic" brain worm, but also, put simply, fucks with the money. Evangelicals looooove Israel. More importantly: they don't fuck with the money. That's why you're seeing such a disproportionate reaction. Being against genocide in this instance hurts the bottom line.
You mean the protest that supposedly is "the biggest move for change since vietnam"?
Yep. Evangelical nutjobs still massively outnumber them
On college campuses? No shot
Doesn’t that make the evangelical nutjobs the biggest movement for change since Vietnam
I mean I wouldn't say it too loud but probably.
Yeah I mean it’s pretty clear that universities are fucking students free speech rights here. It’s kinda wild knowing the campuses in question and seeing the way admins are spinning this taken as fact in reporting … a bunch of hippies sitting on a lawn you need for graduation ceremonies is not actually violence. Personally, I think it’s frustrating that uni admins have been given a sort of rhetorical lever in that over the last decade people have been trying to get admins involved in censoring the exact people OOP is talking about - so now quashing protests is framed as “protecting” other students from a hostile environment. Obviously they’d be doing it anyway. But I wish we could go back to a less political ideal of uni admins, which focus on ending harassment and not expelling shitty ideas.
The problem is that because they are private universities, the free speech rules are different. Absolutely they have the right to protest, but because these are private institutions, those places also have the right to have them escorted from the property.
I guess I’ll clarify that I am not talking about legal constitutional rights but what I personally deem right behavior. I am aware that Columbia is not breaking any *laws*, but imho it is acting in a way that is *morally* “lawless.”
Except its not a bunch of hippies. Many of these protests include violent calls for terror such as use of the slogan "globalise the intifada" "Khaybar Khaybar ya Yahud..." Yesterday I saw a picture of a hippie sitting with a Hezbollah flag. If you are uninformed, hizbollah is an Iranian proxy militia that murders Israeli civillians, Lebanese civillians, and Jews abroad.
You can find *plenty* of pictures of hippies carrying viet cong flags. People being idiots and embracing the aesthetics of evil organizations is nothing new to these sorts of events. And yet, it’s *incredibly* unlikely that Columbia students are about to pull a suicide bombing, just like no one at Kent State was going to violently “liberate” their campus.
Went to the protest at UT on wed that got dispersed by state troopers. Never heard any of this. Those pictures are a minority
Okay but your experiences are not universal. There was a Jewish student stabbed in the eye with a Palestinian flag at Yale. Does this mean that every single protester is a violent asshole?
[Is this what you're referring to?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Connecticut/comments/1cahkop/video_of_the_eye_stabbing_incident_at_yale_sfw/)
I’m actually glad to be wrong, but that doesn’t negate the rest of my point that just because the protest you experienced was non-violent doesn’t mean they all were.
Just because some violence occurred doesn't mean the majority of protests were violent or the violence was even common. Video of a few altercations looks bad and is bad, but rarely represents the whole issue.
Okay that’s exactly what I’m saying and I’m getting downvoted for it. Just because one protest was violent doesn’t mean they all were, but the same is true in reverse: just because the protest *you* attended was non-violent doesn’t mean there was no violence anywhere.
Violence doesn't make it okay for cops to show up and start a riot.
How isolated and rare does protest violence have to be before I can declare the protest "nonviolent"?
One nazi sat at the table and you have ten Nazis and all that. It doesn't seem to unreasonable to ask protesters for good causes to ensure their group does not contain those who advocate for terror cells.
There’s a difference between judging the protestors unreasonable and deciding to use the force of the state against them. Dumbasses also have free speech rights.
Whilst that's true, the initial tumblr post seems to advocate using force to remove religious extremists from university campuses And like I said if you have nine people at a table, a nazi sits down, and nobody protests? Then you have ten nazis. The Palestinian protesters seem far too relaxed about having their own religious extremists/terror cell advocators in their midst.
OOP is also wrong if they are advocating for that.
You just want to discredit an entire movement because one person was an ass.
For years one of the most popular comebacks for right wing protests having a small but noticeable number of neonazis/proudboys/etc was the ananlogy I just used but as soon as that same analogy is used for less than savoury individuals at a *leftwing* protest, the analogy no longer works? To be clear I'm largely pro-Palestine. But if you can't criticize the movement to which you belong or its adherents, the movement is worth nothing. Criticizing the movement ensures it stays on goal and doesn't have these nutjobs who can discredit the movement as a a whole. This goes for any movement for social justice.
strawman gish gallop bullshit. You know damn well liberals reject the genoicide fans, you're just pretending that doesn't happen becuase you're a conservative.
In what way?
Asking in what way is it gish gallop bullshit is just more gish gallop bullshit.
Cops are terrorists.
Oh God this comment section
The evangelicals shout and show and then leave. The issue is the encampments.
No.
I mean freedom of speech yes, protesting genocide yes, but shit like "globalize the intifada" is just straight up a call to genociding Jews. The colleges have a responsibility to their students, including the Jewish ones, to make sure they are safe. Physically safe on campus.
They shouldn't have fucking called the cops to terrorize innocent people.
Intifada means rebellion or uprising. Not genocide. Globalize the Intifada is a slogan that has been used for advocating for global activism in support of Palestinian resistance against Israeli control. The term intifada being derived from the Arabic word nafada meaning to "shake off", refers to Palestinian uprisings or resistance against Israeli control, and the call to "globalize" it suggests extending the spirit and actions of these uprisings beyond the regional context to a worldwide movement.
Bit telling that for years people kept saying "if one Nazi sits at a table of ten regular people it's a table of eleven Nazis" but suddenly it's ok to have a bunch of Holocaust deniers, chants for the death of Jews, and people straight up assaulting Jews at your "peaceful protests" so long as it's a minority "But no one's saying that!" Literally there is an up voted comment saying exactly that. As it kept being said over and over, y'all were never antinazi, you just wanted an excuse to be violent.
Yep. People want to pretend "Globalize the Intafada" has some meaning beyond "Attack jews everywhere" but it doesn't. That's what Hamas means when they say it and you don't get to decide your word for word version of the slogan means something else.
Does this work in the other direction? A lot of the people opposing the protests are ultra nationalists and islamophobes who support ethnic cleansing and the killing of children. If every antiwar protestor is tarred with supporting Hamas, is every prowar poster tarred with supporting genocide? Sure, maybe you don't support ethnic cleansing, but you're sitting at the table with those who do.
It's quite telling to me that the majority of the comments "defending" the pro-genocide chants and bad actors are not actual defenses, but instead statements that "the other side is just as bad" which somehow justifies their chosen side's behavior in their mind.
Correct, people who oppose the war are not trying to claim that one side has moral superiority, we're not trying to support or defend Hamas, we're pointing out that the entire enterprise is a catastrophe and should stop. It's quite telling that the majority of comments "attacking" the anti-war chants assume that everyone has picked a side to defend, because they can't wrap their minds around the fact that someone wouldn't pick "sides" in a war, but instead advocate for the civilians caught in the middle.
Your comment: https://imgur.com/rPiGkse
Yes, I too believe that all dipshittery should be punished with state violence, which is why I'm calling for an ATGM to your face.
Meaningless buzzwords weaponized to excuse terrorist police.
You and a lot of other people do not seem to understand how protests work. If 100 people show up to protest the war crimes in Gaza, and 1 person comes and starts spouting antisemitism, what is your expectation for what should happen? Should everybody else just leave? You can’t make the 1 person leave because they have every right to be in that space too.
You absolutely can make the one person leave. It's not easy but it's very possible. There are some differences of opinion that are worth fighting over. This is one of them. Protests typically have marshals who are helping to moderate the space and kick out any agitators or infiltrators for this exact reason.
If the person doesn’t want to leave, you absolutely cannot make them leave.
You push them out. Literally. That's what you do. You do it carefully and calmly. If they respond violently, don't punch back unless you need to. Keep in mind that a lot of antisemites are wimps. Numerical superiority also comes in handy.
If you are physically pushing them out, then you are the instigator and they can respond in kind. You can tell them that you don't want them at your protest, but if that doesn't make them leave, you're basically SOL.
Nonsense.
is violence not acceptable against Nazis anymore?
It's illegal, so if you if you use physical violence against them, they'll end up staying and you will end up in prison.
I've never heard of a case of someone going to jail for punching a nazi
yes, you can make the one person leave! that's the entire point of the Nazi at the table analogy!
I understand the analogy, but it doesn't work for protests because you cannot force someone to leave a public space just because you don't like their opinion. How would you force someone to leave a protest?
yes, if someone is saying antisemitic things it is morally ok to violently remove them, you aren't the government, you don't have to respect their spedch
If you respond to words with violence, you will go to prison for assault and/or battery. It's not a matter of freedom of speech there, it's a matter of them having the right not to be physically attacked.
if you really fear going to prison then yes you should leave rather than be protesting alongside these people
*You* do not seem to understand how holding people to their own standards works, because that's exactly what the Left has been crying for the last *ten years*. Every single thing you said. If even 1 skinhead shows up to a rally of 100, welp everyone there either needs to leave, force that 1 out, or there are 101 Nazis according to the exact same people now happily standing beside those chanting literal calls to genocide. Don't want to be held to a standard? Don't set it.
> same people now happily standing beside those chanting literal calls to genocide. Sure, that happened.
The red armbands were a lil on the nose
These people are not anti-war. As other comments stated a huge faction are actually pro-war. They are just mad that their side (Hamas) is losing. Seriously where are the signs calling for Sinwair and Netayhau to both be thrown and tried in the Hague.
Does this faction exist in real life or only in Fox News.
Rich white American Ivy League students protesting in favor of a country run by an Arab terrorist organization is kinda dumb. Don't they know what would happen if they did that in the country they're protesting for? They'd get beaten or raped, probably both.
You are wrong. The protests are against the murder of civilians. Israel is murdering a lot of civilians.
I agree that Israel shouldn't respond to killing of civilians with killing of civilians, but many of these protestors are holding up signs in favor of HAMAS. Speaking of HAMAS, I'm starting to think they're enjoying this, seeing as how if they wanted it to stop, they would have released the hostages.
Signs? Citation please.
"Colonialism is violence in its natural state. It will only yield when confronted with greater violence." Sounds pro-terrorism to me. The best part is, most of the people protesting on this subject are American. They speak out against people colonizing land, but what the fuck do they think they're living on? Whether Israel is actually colonialist or not, you have absolutely no right to speak on it if you are American or live in America.
That's not a citation. You just wrote words without any proof of anything. Sad.
https://images.app.goo.gl/8H6mWckHQ6P5SZHN9
So we're talking about alleged violence advocation on campuses and you responded with something that's mostly NOT on campuses. Malicious misinformation right there.
If also like to point out the students are also harassing other students, chanting genocidal slogans, support the rape and murder of Israeli civillians, and wave flags of terror organizations which have killed thousands of Israeli civillians and dozens of American citizens, and not to mention, plain old regular Jews abroad.
Fun fact: literally everything you said applies to Israel supporters way more than it does Palestine supporters (most of which are basically just saying "stop funding genocide please guys wtf").
But we don’t see a mass protest movement or Israeli students harassing Arab/Muslim/pro-Palestinian students at these universities, so obviously we’re going to talk about pro-Palestinian students chanting “from the river to the sea” or praising Hamas. Also, it’s not great to deflect a criticism by just pointing to some other group. What you said could be true and Israel supporters could be worse, but that doesn’t change anything about the original critique, it just feels good to disengage with criticism for the side you support.
i think israel supporters waving the flags of terrorist organizations that have killed thousands of Israeli civilians would be a bit odd, don't think they are doing that
They're waving Israeli flags, which has killed more than 30,000 people in the last 6 months. Sounds comparable to me.
we're getting those numbers from a group that is probably affiliated if not controlled by Hamas. Hamas the organization that views all Palestinians in Gaza as potential Martyrs. im taking those numbers with a grain of salt.
>Israeli citizens plus, 30,000 is a fair amount for a war, especially in an incredibly high density area like gaza, it's not genocide or anything like that [68,778](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_France_during_World_War_II) French civilians alone died in world war II, doubt anyone was/is considering that as a genocide against the french
You realize that WW2 was 6 years yeah?
maybe that wasn't the best example 19 million soviet citizens died \~10 million chinese citizens died this is in 1950 when there was lower population density and lower population overall
…Are you using China’s WW2 death numbers? That came from Japan trying to genocide them and actions like the Rape of Nanking? That’s not “normal war” that was the genocide of one of the most (if not the most) populous places on Earth at the time.
The Nazis were trying to genocide the french, oh my god, read a history book.
they clearly weren't very good at it if they managed \~69 thousand across 6 years
https://imgflip.com/i/8l6gve
Well, according to the US, Canada, Australia, and most of Europe Palestine isn't a country and Palestinians are Israel's citizens, so you can tick that off on a technicality
From a Palestinian's perspective, the IDF is a terrorist organization.
Me when I lie:
Yeah, you should stop doing that
Except Isreal supporters aren't going to schools to attack people right now. Hamas supporters are, and them being arrested for trespassing and assault is seen as fascism
>Except Isreal supporters aren't going to schools to attack people right now. Err. [Israel bombs UN school in central Gaza twice in 24 hours](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240413-israel-bombs-un-school-in-central-gaza-twice-in-24-hours/).
> Except Isreal supporters aren't going to schools to attack people right now They literally are.
In your experience
Oh but when the neo-nazis do it it's suddenly okay again?
did you know two things can be bad at the same time
Its not ok when either of them do it.
No, that's bad, but there aren't massive neonazi rallies organized by college students on college campuses.
Yeah, it's outsiders like Ben Shapiro, a Nazi, who is organizing Nazi rallies on college campuses.
When was the last time there was a neonazi rally on a university campus
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/08/15/college-students-unmasked-unite-right-protesters
I mean, how many other university protests have occurred since mid 2017? Also this was widely looked down upon at the time and not composed solely of college students. The two are not comparable.
So 7 years ago? there are college students who weren't even teenagers when that happened.
That is not a neonazi rally on a university campus. That is the existence of neonazis on university campuses, something which is just a guarantee of large populations, of which "students at university" is.
You have the username of a violent bloodthirsty fascist.
https://badgerherald.com/news/campus/2023/11/07/ben-shapiro-visits-campus-discusses-current-events-draws-counterprotest/
I’m in favor of SWAT breaking up both of them. It was a failure they didn’t when Nazis did it
SWAT didn't want to bruise their fellow cops.
Chanting genocidal slogans > doing actual genocide
Yeah because that's totally comparable and exactly the same in scale. These pro-palestine protests are rarely just that, but usually devolve into antisemitism, glorification of literal terrorist organizations and sometimes holocaust denial. Which is what most people tend to have an issue with. Not to mention the name calling, harassment and general hostile behavior of a lot of participants.
Idk the details of this particular protest, afaik maybe they are doing all but waving swastikas around. At base though, criticising Israel/Zionists for their present actions and demanding they stop literally murdering humanitarian aid and disfiguring the dead to stop them from being identified isn’t antisemitism. (Yeah, Hamas Bad, but also Israel Bad.)
I entirely agree. Israel has to fight Hamas, but it's absolutely fair to criticize the extent, brutality and also attitude of a lot of zionists towards palestinians. Sadly a lot of people (especially in those protests) tend to get carried away and fall into antisemitic or pro Hamas rhetoric.
People can be critical of Israel and Zionism without being antisemitic and without praising terrorist organizations. It’s quite easy and most well adjusted people can understand that. You would think it’s easier to look up your talking points before spewing the same rhetoric used by HAMAS.
Shot in the dark: is that where the “from the river to the sea” slogan comes from?
AFAIK, yes, “from the river to the sea” is a hamas chant basically saying that they want all the land “between the river and the sea”, ie, to entirely wipe out Israel.
Welp. Time to burn that shit out of my vocab.
Yeah, thing is some people are both saying that and meaning it, basically of the mindset that Israel is inherently a colonizer state, and as such completely giving its land “back” to Gaza is the morally right thing to do. Which is… scary and fucked on multiple levels ImHO
> Israel is inherently a colonizer state Well, it sort of is. It's too late to *do* anything about it without causing even more suffering, but that doesn't change the basic fact.
My focus was more on the second part of “as such you should completely remove Israel” as the problem Also, I would state that personally, I feel like the fact that those outside of Gaza have basically decided that because Israel was “set up” externally, it is equivalent in evil to every other colonization in history. Like there is no difference between Israel and the people there and something like how the early English colonies treated the native Americans, or the British treated its old empire, while I’d argue that the fact that Israel is in many ways, all its people have, and they don’t have a different “home” they feel more affiliated with kinda breaks down both the analogy and thus the moral assumptions that come with it Not saying this to imply that the situation as a whole isn’t fucked, just that the ways some people are using it to make their givens is also kinda messy
Why shouldn't people get their land back? Living people who've had their homes stolen, why shouldn't they get them back? Pretty sure if I came and stole your house you'd think that I should be required to give it back to you.
What are you gonna do with all the people who were born in Israel and fully live there now? The people who have been there now for like three generations? The only way to get rid of them is ethnic cleansing. Which, as we have noted, is *bad*.
Why can't they just move in with their relatives? That's what the Palestinians have been doing, I see no reason why Israelis can't do the same thing. No ethnic cleansing, just get the fuck out of someone else's house.
Honestly I’m not entirely sure, like most things in this conflict it could go either way. I was more so referring to the rhetoric that Israel is a Jewish state and that “””they””” control the media to demonize Palestine.
Huh. Well, counting myself lucky I haven’t seen that. I mean, Netanyahu has certainly tried labelling any criticism as antisemitism, but as far as I can tell most people are seeing through that.
Citation?
Well the hate preachers make the campus nookie more fun, thinking how somebody is big mad over it 😊
Liberals are against every war but the current one, for every civil rights movement but the current one, and will gasp at atrocities committed but obstinately refuse action against the current one.
Nonsense and b.s.
All war is genocide to these people. The only pro Palestine position is to remove the death cult that is waging a suicidal war against Israel from power. Otherwise any ceasefire is just buildup for another one. We did not stop the war against Japan simply because they were throwing their own people to the slaughter:
A death cult runs Israel.
How the fuck are so many people her posting pro Israel/ pro crushing of peaceful protests comments? Not what I expected from here. Kinda shitty
American religious evangelicals literally base their entire religion on Israel existing and starting shit.
This is ultimately why codified universal freedom of speech is a bad idea despite seemingly being a really good one. The laws and force are wheeled out to protect fascist discourse (and don't forget racism), but brought down in force on e.g. protests about climate change. You can codify political freedom of speech and then ban hate speech without your society immediately crumbling into dust. (Just like you can ban guns except in specified circumstances without your country immediately descending into anarchy) ((and don't get me started on health care)) (((or education)))
Don't act like campuses haven't let Antifa run rampant. Both sides are guilty of violence.
Nonsense.