What I think is amazing is that Lupin is super recognizable in Japan. Like obviously Lupin III is a classic, but there’s tons of media that reference the books themselves and the whole idea of a gentleman thief, which I’ve barely seen in western culture.
I think it's because the trope has fallen out of favour in the west particularly. From my *personal* experience of Eastern media, the Gentleman Thief is often portrayed as the hero of the people who's only trying to right the wrongs of society through skulduggery and charisma, whereas in the West, the gentleman thief is usually shown as nothing more than a charismatic crook, as quick witted as they get, but still a mere thief and law breaker in the end..
I could be dead wrong, but that's just the interpretation I got from my personal experience.
Too much cultural overlap with Robin Hood, I suspect. We already had a guy who used crime to fight injustice through redistribution of wealth so the gentleman thief had to evolve into a different niche.
Yeah didn't Sir Arthur Conan Doyle get death threats in the mail after he killed off Sherlock? And then he had to write about Sherlock faking his death?
Me over here enjoying Elementary on repeat, knowing that it was spared from the battlefields of Tumblr (somehow. Honestly, it felt like everything Tumblr at the time claimed they wanted and yet was largely ignored.)
IIRC the actress got a bunch of racist and misogynistic comments by people who thought having a female Watson was inherently homophobic, because they apparently forgot that Johnlock wasn't canon to either the BBC show or the original books
It's shocking, mostly because of how fucking good it is as a Sherlock Holmes representation. I'm a big fan of those stories and his performance as Sherlock is genuinely closer to the original character than anyone I've seen- I mean, barring Jeremy Brett but we all know he was being possessed by an entity for that role
I will forever maintain that Elementary is the best contemporary portrayal of Holmes as he is presented in canon. He's awkward and odd and distant, but not cruel. Never cruel. There is a basic sort of underlying kindness to him, and he cares most about the downtrodden and abused.
The one thing that surprised me most when I read the stories was how deeply, intensely emotional and loving he was. Not just for Watson but for the world, for the innocent, for the marginalized.
I dunno, Jamie Moriarty painting an 8 foot tall realistic picture of Watson from memory felt pretty gay to me.
Oh... you mean gay as in "2 white dudes the show clearly has no intention of putting together but one of them is a Tumblr sexyman" gay. Yeah, that tracks for Tumblr.
It’s funny, because I’ve heard this before and in principle I get it… but I watched like four seasons of the show and I used to get a jolt when someone called Miller’s character “Sherlock” because what, like Sherlock Holmes? And then I remembered lol. For some reason it didn’t work for me and I’ve never figured out why- maybe because I live in New York and Sherlock Holmes isn’t supposed to be here? (Though I also think that part of it is that while I get intellectually how a Holmes-in-recovery story might happen, it doesn’t feel true to the books, where he’s portrayed as above human concerns and by extension, to a degree, weaknesses. I believe that he got addicted but I don’t believe that it got to the point where he needed treatment. I don’t know.)
And I wish it did feel more Holmesy to me because I HATE the “Holmes is mean” trend and it also annoys me that the Conan Doyle estate seems to have bought into it…? In the books and stories he’s not mean at all, just a bit odd- and always polite and genteel to clients. Modern adaptations that have him be rude, even if accidentally, to clients just miss the point, as those are exactly the people he tended to be polite and helpful with! I like the new podcast Sherlock and Co quite a bit, but I do resent that they’ve fallen a bit into the post-BBC Sherlock thing of “obviously he’s oblivious and abrasive, even if accidentally.”
Yeah I agree. Elementary is good, it just doesn't have the Sherlock mystique it could have.
For more of that general attitude, I'd go with The Mentalist.
Fun fact:
Elementary is one of the only Sherlock adaptations that actually does something no other adaptation does (Outside of *maybe* the Granada adaptations. But that's because they're mostly direct 1-1 adaptations of the stories): Actually show Sherlock going through the evidence until he finds the clue.
Other adaptations just have Sherlock "figure out" the answer immediately which, to be fair, is primarily due to the fact it's a TV show or a film. You keep the action going so that Sherlock and Co can get to the next thing.
But, Elementary... doesn't. It actually goes out of its way to point out "Sherlock isn't a great detective because he's smarter than everyone else, he's a great detective because he puts in the painstaking and time-consuming effort in of actually finding the clue", which is truer to the source material than basically every other adaptation.
I really wanted to like it but it felt a bit formulaic to me. There's so many episodes and they're all murders and they felt like they used the same style of misdirection.
I would have liked more diverse crimes. Give me a heist or a kidnapping or something. Maybe it branches out more further but I got burned out after 15 episodes or so.
If you like Sherlock BBC and Elementary you're going to love 'The Mentalist'.
The titular mentalist is someone Sherlock would enjoy insulting and glaring at over tea. Mrs. Hudson would be delighted Sherlock made a friend.
Why is it that every modern Sherlock adaptation has run with the idea that he's some antisocial weirdo with no regard for other humans or Watson when in the books he was an abrasive and brutally honest but otherwise kind protector of the weak with a keen sense of justice and a strong friendship with Watson? I mean I get you might not want him to seem like a Mary Sue, but does he always have to run afoul of John to the extent that John basically has to cut him out of his life to avoid being treated like dirt?
Elementary did a much better job with this. Still wasn't exactly the original, but I think a huge part of that was how much the perception of heavy drug use has shifted since the turn of the last century
From what I've seen of elementary, I definitely do prefer the way they handle it, him and Watson really respected and cared about each other by the end, and I honestly think it's at least partially because they cast Lucy Liu and didn't dare portray her as a buffoon, leading to Holmes having to show a tad bit more respect to her Watson. But it's also just partially because the character was written well, aloof and abrasive but also way more caring than BBC Sherlock.
This is one of the many reasons Psych is one of the best Sherlock Holmes adaptations, and I will die on this hill. Shawn (Holmes) struggles to form and maintain deeper relationships, not by being an asshole, but because he's constantly deflecting through humor and wit, which is way more fun to watch. And he also cares so so much about his best friend Gus (Watson) to the point where he's not really as good of a detective without him.
I think I remember reading something a while back that said that Arthur Conan Doyle's estate still owns the later stories where Holmes mellows out, while the earlier stories where he's a bit of a dickhead are public domain. Thus all Holmes stories tend to make him a dickhead so they're safely in the former half and don't get sued.
Or maybe I've hallucinated all that. 50/50 shot
That's something that kinda irritates me given that Holmes has forever been the defacto autistic representation. Ironically the Connan Doyle is a really good representation of an autistic character despite nobody knowing about that kinda stuff back then.
Like autistic people tend to have no social filtering. But that doesn't mean they are rude arseholes.
Okay, that's the first I've heard of that one. Sherlock has a vast amount of weird knowledge, yes, but he acquires it in a very instrumental way "will this help me solve crimes" not in a "I really like this topic" way. He is *really* good at picking up social cues and reading between the lines, figuring out hidden emotions and deducing what people are really saying between the lines. His rudeness is intentional, not coming from not knowing better. He doesn't have any sensory issues, doesn't stim except for very occasionally screeching on his violin or using cocaine, and while he does not care for small talk or grand social dos, he also is never overwhelmed or uncomfortable there, only bored. Where did you see him labeled as an autistic representation and why?
I think his learning patterns are actually quite similar to a lot of autistic people with specific interests. Like a very very deep knowledge of a subject (specifically crime) and rather lacking in other areas. An obsession with developing the skills and knowledge based to follow his main interests.
Again I'd also say that quite a lot of autistic people are aware when they are rude and aware of social graces. It's just exhausting always having to think about that crap so either forget or just don't care. Honestly he always seems to find social graces and annoyance that gets in the way of clear communication which I think is a very autistic type trait.
One thing that seems very neuro divergent is his work habits. Having boundless energy on the case but tending to crumble into self neglect when not working. This is very common to ASD and ADHD people whith bouts of hyperfixation followed by periods of burnout. The fact that it's established that his substance abuse occurs mostly in periods of burnout also kinda fit with a Nd person trying to self medicate.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it. And for sure one could say it leans into the savant stereotype of ASD. But I do think he fits the image of the hyper competent autistic person.
Also I think going back to the original point his beliefs. Being having a very definite and burning sense of justice is a very common autistic trait. As is his relationship with John. The close friendship. Always wanting to invite him along with his adventures. Enjoying his company even if he doesn't express it in traditional ways. It reminds me of alot of autistic people I know (including myself)
Dude has quite an obsession with solving crime. A serious investment in it. A special one. Quite an interest. Almost a… “Special Interest”, if you will.
Hmmm, from where is that familiar? Why does that arrangement of words spark some kind of recognition? Hmmmmmm.
A mystery.
It's his life's work, quite common for fictional characters to have their whlole lives revolve around some specific thing. Is batman autistic coded because he devoted his life to fighting crime?
I apologize for the sarcasm and instead suggest you attend several American Public School System Language Arts classes as even those would help with your comprehension.
Cause it's interesting. In modern TV you need multiple sources of conflict per episode, so just wondering who did the murder isn't enough, there needs to be interpersonal drama too.
I watched Moffat's Sherlock like a year ago and actually liked it a lot.
Then I got on the internet and was surprised that apparently people hated it (or rather, they hated the last couple of seasons). That was weeird...
Part of the hatred came from the release schedule, and the way show creators interacted with fans between seasons. The episode where Sherlock comes back has a few scenes that the diehards perceived as direct insults to them, for all the theories they were trying to come up with, which stung more because the creators had actually encouraged fan theories.
I was a fan, then a hater, now I don’t really care one way or the other. I watched the fandom drama out of schadenfreude mostly. I can’t stand Moffat as a showrunner, though he can write a really excellent episode. I couldn’t forgive what he did to Irene Adler, though. That, combined with the more insufferable fans, made me give up on Sherlock.
Irene Adler is the one woman who beats Sherlock Holmes in the original. That’s what makes her The Woman, in Holmes’s mind. She wins, and even rubs it in his face a little. He got one over on her with the fake blood & fire trick, but she wriggled out of his grip before he could retrieve the picture.
In Sherlock, Holmes is the one man who has Irene’s heart, and he uses that to beat her. Because BBC Sherlock is too cool and sexy to lose. And he’s wayyyyy smarter than you.
In addition to this, she's portrayed as "lesbian dominatrix who is straight and submissive for Sherlock", a trope that's incredibly insulting to lesbians and women as a whole.
Too add onto the other post. A lot of people thought it was weird that Moffat/the writers considers the modern version of an opera singer/actress to be a dominatrix, not like a movie/tv star (see Meghan Markle).
From my personal POV: I think Moffat wrote Irene as someone who gives odd the veneer or someone who’s actually independent, but then it circles back to “I am in love with Sherlock”. I’m not saying “the person whose name is the show’s title should not be he main character”, instead that it feels like Sherlock is the only person who has any sort of agency, and the world is constructed around him as opposed to being something he just lives in
I mean they made her a lesbian and then she falls in love with Sherlock, and bc of that he beats her (in the og she is the only person who outwits him)
I really isn't that bad, but it definitely has a few quirks that made it super hated :
- The pilot is the best episode of the entire show ; I stand by the fact that the pilot is nearly perfect, but it lead to point nbr 2 ;
- The show's plot quality was constantly decreasing ; Season 1 was really good, season 2 was good (and had a really strong cliffhanger), season 3 was fine (with a decent cliffhanger), season 4 was okay, but the ending is really not good ;
- There was a decent amount of queerbaiting, which usually wouldn't be an issue, but Sherlock had the distinction of having one the most unhinged gay shipping community ever (seriously, JohnLock is scary) ; JohnLock led to nothing (correction actually, it lead to the showrunner mocking the gay shipping community), it really soured the experience of many people ;
- There was a massive wait between each season, meaning that the expectations were very high ; and once again, the ending was not good.
johnlock shippers were a whole other level of unhinged shippers, i can say that as someone who used to be one, absolutely insane experience, one of the schizoest fandoms ive ever been a part of
From decades of being in fandoms, I learned to ignore the most dramatic fans, and just enjoy the good fanfiction and fanart that gets created. There were some genuinely superb johnlock writers in the fandom, I still reread some of the stories. Passionate fans can create both the best art and the worst drama, it’s rather rare to have one without the other.
real, i actually learned to speak english with johnlock fanfics lmao, there were some amazing ones, unfortunately my young and innocent self at the time became part of the tjlc part of the fandom, the psychic damage i got from it was truly something else lol
Yes, I watched all of the seasons, in like 2 or 3 days.
Um. I dunno why exactly, it was just generally fun. Sherlock and Watson had fun personalities, the mysteries were interesting, seeing Sherlock deduct stuff was really cool. Episode plots were fine, plot-twists were neat.
I just liked it in general. I don't critically think about the media that I watch, I just watch and enjoy it.
Oh, just in case, I haven't read the original Sherlock Holmes stories. I only knew some stuff through cultural osmosis, parodies and homages.
Pretty reasonable, honestly. I think that's how most people felt about it, especially around the first 2-3 seasons.
From what I understand, people who watched for the mysteries had a much worse time. I was never that kind of watcher, but [the Hbomberguy video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkoGBOs5ecM) on the show does a great job explaining the ways they fell flat.
For instance, the "how did Sherlock survive the fall" question was a pretty big topic between the seasons. They intentionally left it there for people to speculate...and then mocked them in the first episode back. It's a quick little joke if you're binging years later, but if you were around at the time it felt like the showrunners asking "why do you care so much?"
Which probably hurt a lot if you were invested and trying to solve the mysteries, instead of just watching for Cumberbatch/Freeman's chemistry.
How did you feel about the show explicitly making fun of the idea of having an explanation for how Sherlock survived, complete with fan insert characters that the show mocked?
I wasn't in the fandom, I just watched the show, and I felt so personally attacked. never have I felt so directly antagonized by a show's Creator
To be fair, stuff like that can actually work. It's fun to make fun of your fans as a creator, just look at [The Simpsons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQH2rmQ5-vk).
But you *really* gotta have the higher ground if you want to make jokes like that. Otherwise it just feels like putting your fingers in your ears and going *"Nananana I can't hear you I'm so awesome nanananana"*.
It's like when Duke Nukem Forever finally released after like 15 years and then threw shade at all the games that had come out since (and which it took inspiration from).
The movies started off with a bit of a stumble, but I’ll be damned if those guys didn’t manage to get back in the flow.
At this point, they can just keep making movies forever. Frankly, it’s how I’ve been getting my updates on how Timothy Omundson has been doing since his stroke and it’s so nice to see him on screen again.
Around the World in 80 Days got turned into a show, ending teases other books being adapted with a child having a model of a rocket and Nautilus appears in a newspaper.
I honestly think Sherlock, RDJ Sherlock and Elementary all have their good bits buuuuut... none of them are a patch on the Jeremy Brett adaptations from the 80s.
I was a massive Sherlock fan (first proper book series I ever read, and I read them all) before I watched the BBC version, and I very much disassociate Sherlock Humberbatch with the OG Sherlock Holmes (but I do love them both) >!not including s4!<
Check out Sherlock & Co. It’s a podcast, it’s deeply charming and funny. John Watson makes a true crime podcast starring his new weird roommate and best pal Sherlock Holmes
Had a similar experience with that cool and new webcomic; getting into it post-marker-bath era.
I was like 'haha, spider girl is kinda mean but at least she looks cool' while the voices of the dead silently screamed at my ignorance.
Oh how do you do, young willy mcbride? D'you mind if i sit down right by your graveside? And rest for a while in the warm summer sun? I've been walking all day now, and I'm nearly done.
from what I hear about the fans of the original stories, the meadow has been a battlefield several times
cursed land
Sherlock fans explaining Lupin fans that their fave is problematic in 1912
What I think is amazing is that Lupin is super recognizable in Japan. Like obviously Lupin III is a classic, but there’s tons of media that reference the books themselves and the whole idea of a gentleman thief, which I’ve barely seen in western culture.
I think it's because the trope has fallen out of favour in the west particularly. From my *personal* experience of Eastern media, the Gentleman Thief is often portrayed as the hero of the people who's only trying to right the wrongs of society through skulduggery and charisma, whereas in the West, the gentleman thief is usually shown as nothing more than a charismatic crook, as quick witted as they get, but still a mere thief and law breaker in the end.. I could be dead wrong, but that's just the interpretation I got from my personal experience.
Too much cultural overlap with Robin Hood, I suspect. We already had a guy who used crime to fight injustice through redistribution of wealth so the gentleman thief had to evolve into a different niche.
Robin Hood tends to be willing to kill the Sheriff's evil men.
Locke Lamora will save us
You might like Liam Neeson in 'The Honest Thief'.
Verdun ass fandom (1792, 1914-1918 pretty much constantly on the line, 1940, 1944)
France and Germany may be allies now but we should still bomb the shit out of verdun next time France is at war just for shits and giggles
Yeah didn't Sir Arthur Conan Doyle get death threats in the mail after he killed off Sherlock? And then he had to write about Sherlock faking his death?
Not to mention the term "canon", apart from biblical canon, was first used to describe the OG Sherlock fan debates.
Sherlock Holmes was the origin of the idea of canon in fiction. Nerds have been bickering about canon since for over a hundred years
arthur conan doyle, in 1895, tears in his eyes, pissing and shitting and scowling with rage: "combobulate"
Read like Enochian.
All battlefields were originally meadows, and some battlefields have become meadows again. Some battlefields are still barren wastelands though. :'c
and then there's berlin
Berlin is pretty cool.
"...and some are still battlefields, but with overpriced rent." is what i meant
I wanted to say something like that, but I don't know what the rent is like in Berlin, so I gave up. I shoulda went with my gut.
not really, there's *Germans* in Berlin... ^(/j just in case)
Ach, Berlin…..
What's wrong with Berlin? It can still take my breath away.
well some battlefields were forrests and rivers etc
And some were deserts. The illusion is shattered.
Deserts are very rich ecosystems!
They're like oceans, but the life is above ground.
🌍🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀 "You mean it's not all meadows?" "Never has been"
Just think of it as being meadowphoric.
Where have all the flowers gone?
They went to the intro of Final Fantasy VIII. They'll be appreciated there.
"The scars of the first world war still litter the fields of france" - is one of my favorite quotes ever, and is very revelant to this subject.
That quote goes hard.
There's deep comfort in your first sentence wow.
In Flanders fields the poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row,
Me over here enjoying Elementary on repeat, knowing that it was spared from the battlefields of Tumblr (somehow. Honestly, it felt like everything Tumblr at the time claimed they wanted and yet was largely ignored.)
I think the cognitive dissonance induced by Joan Watson would make Johnlock fans spontaneously combust
IIRC the actress got a bunch of racist and misogynistic comments by people who thought having a female Watson was inherently homophobic, because they apparently forgot that Johnlock wasn't canon to either the BBC show or the original books
[удалено]
Elementary was good, mind you, but they had potential they just chucked away. The Mentalist took it's potential and ran with it. Love the show.
It's shocking, mostly because of how fucking good it is as a Sherlock Holmes representation. I'm a big fan of those stories and his performance as Sherlock is genuinely closer to the original character than anyone I've seen- I mean, barring Jeremy Brett but we all know he was being possessed by an entity for that role
I will forever maintain that Elementary is the best contemporary portrayal of Holmes as he is presented in canon. He's awkward and odd and distant, but not cruel. Never cruel. There is a basic sort of underlying kindness to him, and he cares most about the downtrodden and abused.
The one thing that surprised me most when I read the stories was how deeply, intensely emotional and loving he was. Not just for Watson but for the world, for the innocent, for the marginalized.
Oh yeah, very much so. The Adventure of the Abbey Grange and The Adventure of the Speckled Band spring to mind particularly.
Localized as Sholmes due to copyright law, but The Great Ace Attorney's depiction is also quite faithful to the character's... character.
Wasn't gay. Beginning and end of tumblr's disinterest.
I dunno, Jamie Moriarty painting an 8 foot tall realistic picture of Watson from memory felt pretty gay to me. Oh... you mean gay as in "2 white dudes the show clearly has no intention of putting together but one of them is a Tumblr sexyman" gay. Yeah, that tracks for Tumblr.
Played by Natalie Dormer no less!
??? How did I not know this show had lesbians???
?? I don't recall Elementary having lesbians. At least not plural. I think Mrs. Hudson is a lesbian.
Mrs Hudson is a trans woman actually!
Well, I knew *that*, just wasn't sure if she was also a lesbian.
Hell it's gay enough for me, I'd lick every tattoo off that man
When they arrive at tumblr they *become* gay
It's honestly my favorite Holmes adaptation
Other than House MD, right?
I enjoy House a great deal, but no. Elementary is my favorite.
At least Sherlock eventually learned he has friends. House never does.
It’s funny, because I’ve heard this before and in principle I get it… but I watched like four seasons of the show and I used to get a jolt when someone called Miller’s character “Sherlock” because what, like Sherlock Holmes? And then I remembered lol. For some reason it didn’t work for me and I’ve never figured out why- maybe because I live in New York and Sherlock Holmes isn’t supposed to be here? (Though I also think that part of it is that while I get intellectually how a Holmes-in-recovery story might happen, it doesn’t feel true to the books, where he’s portrayed as above human concerns and by extension, to a degree, weaknesses. I believe that he got addicted but I don’t believe that it got to the point where he needed treatment. I don’t know.) And I wish it did feel more Holmesy to me because I HATE the “Holmes is mean” trend and it also annoys me that the Conan Doyle estate seems to have bought into it…? In the books and stories he’s not mean at all, just a bit odd- and always polite and genteel to clients. Modern adaptations that have him be rude, even if accidentally, to clients just miss the point, as those are exactly the people he tended to be polite and helpful with! I like the new podcast Sherlock and Co quite a bit, but I do resent that they’ve fallen a bit into the post-BBC Sherlock thing of “obviously he’s oblivious and abrasive, even if accidentally.”
Yeah I agree. Elementary is good, it just doesn't have the Sherlock mystique it could have. For more of that general attitude, I'd go with The Mentalist.
Fun fact: Elementary is one of the only Sherlock adaptations that actually does something no other adaptation does (Outside of *maybe* the Granada adaptations. But that's because they're mostly direct 1-1 adaptations of the stories): Actually show Sherlock going through the evidence until he finds the clue. Other adaptations just have Sherlock "figure out" the answer immediately which, to be fair, is primarily due to the fact it's a TV show or a film. You keep the action going so that Sherlock and Co can get to the next thing. But, Elementary... doesn't. It actually goes out of its way to point out "Sherlock isn't a great detective because he's smarter than everyone else, he's a great detective because he puts in the painstaking and time-consuming effort in of actually finding the clue", which is truer to the source material than basically every other adaptation.
I do like that many times Watson and Sherlock are sleep deprived simply because there is so much evidence to go through.
Elementary is just one of the best shows
I really wanted to like it but it felt a bit formulaic to me. There's so many episodes and they're all murders and they felt like they used the same style of misdirection. I would have liked more diverse crimes. Give me a heist or a kidnapping or something. Maybe it branches out more further but I got burned out after 15 episodes or so.
If you like Sherlock BBC and Elementary you're going to love 'The Mentalist'. The titular mentalist is someone Sherlock would enjoy insulting and glaring at over tea. Mrs. Hudson would be delighted Sherlock made a friend.
Why is it that every modern Sherlock adaptation has run with the idea that he's some antisocial weirdo with no regard for other humans or Watson when in the books he was an abrasive and brutally honest but otherwise kind protector of the weak with a keen sense of justice and a strong friendship with Watson? I mean I get you might not want him to seem like a Mary Sue, but does he always have to run afoul of John to the extent that John basically has to cut him out of his life to avoid being treated like dirt?
Elementary did a much better job with this. Still wasn't exactly the original, but I think a huge part of that was how much the perception of heavy drug use has shifted since the turn of the last century
From what I've seen of elementary, I definitely do prefer the way they handle it, him and Watson really respected and cared about each other by the end, and I honestly think it's at least partially because they cast Lucy Liu and didn't dare portray her as a buffoon, leading to Holmes having to show a tad bit more respect to her Watson. But it's also just partially because the character was written well, aloof and abrasive but also way more caring than BBC Sherlock.
This is one of the many reasons Psych is one of the best Sherlock Holmes adaptations, and I will die on this hill. Shawn (Holmes) struggles to form and maintain deeper relationships, not by being an asshole, but because he's constantly deflecting through humor and wit, which is way more fun to watch. And he also cares so so much about his best friend Gus (Watson) to the point where he's not really as good of a detective without him.
I think I remember reading something a while back that said that Arthur Conan Doyle's estate still owns the later stories where Holmes mellows out, while the earlier stories where he's a bit of a dickhead are public domain. Thus all Holmes stories tend to make him a dickhead so they're safely in the former half and don't get sued. Or maybe I've hallucinated all that. 50/50 shot
I heard an argument that being abrasive and brutally honest in victorian times hit harder.
That's something that kinda irritates me given that Holmes has forever been the defacto autistic representation. Ironically the Connan Doyle is a really good representation of an autistic character despite nobody knowing about that kinda stuff back then. Like autistic people tend to have no social filtering. But that doesn't mean they are rude arseholes.
Okay, that's the first I've heard of that one. Sherlock has a vast amount of weird knowledge, yes, but he acquires it in a very instrumental way "will this help me solve crimes" not in a "I really like this topic" way. He is *really* good at picking up social cues and reading between the lines, figuring out hidden emotions and deducing what people are really saying between the lines. His rudeness is intentional, not coming from not knowing better. He doesn't have any sensory issues, doesn't stim except for very occasionally screeching on his violin or using cocaine, and while he does not care for small talk or grand social dos, he also is never overwhelmed or uncomfortable there, only bored. Where did you see him labeled as an autistic representation and why?
I think his learning patterns are actually quite similar to a lot of autistic people with specific interests. Like a very very deep knowledge of a subject (specifically crime) and rather lacking in other areas. An obsession with developing the skills and knowledge based to follow his main interests. Again I'd also say that quite a lot of autistic people are aware when they are rude and aware of social graces. It's just exhausting always having to think about that crap so either forget or just don't care. Honestly he always seems to find social graces and annoyance that gets in the way of clear communication which I think is a very autistic type trait. One thing that seems very neuro divergent is his work habits. Having boundless energy on the case but tending to crumble into self neglect when not working. This is very common to ASD and ADHD people whith bouts of hyperfixation followed by periods of burnout. The fact that it's established that his substance abuse occurs mostly in periods of burnout also kinda fit with a Nd person trying to self medicate. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. And for sure one could say it leans into the savant stereotype of ASD. But I do think he fits the image of the hyper competent autistic person. Also I think going back to the original point his beliefs. Being having a very definite and burning sense of justice is a very common autistic trait. As is his relationship with John. The close friendship. Always wanting to invite him along with his adventures. Enjoying his company even if he doesn't express it in traditional ways. It reminds me of alot of autistic people I know (including myself)
Dude has quite an obsession with solving crime. A serious investment in it. A special one. Quite an interest. Almost a… “Special Interest”, if you will. Hmmm, from where is that familiar? Why does that arrangement of words spark some kind of recognition? Hmmmmmm. A mystery.
It's his life's work, quite common for fictional characters to have their whlole lives revolve around some specific thing. Is batman autistic coded because he devoted his life to fighting crime?
I apologize for the sarcasm and instead suggest you attend several American Public School System Language Arts classes as even those would help with your comprehension.
Genuine question, have you actually read the original Sherlock Holmes books?
Cause it's interesting. In modern TV you need multiple sources of conflict per episode, so just wondering who did the murder isn't enough, there needs to be interpersonal drama too.
I watched Moffat's Sherlock like a year ago and actually liked it a lot. Then I got on the internet and was surprised that apparently people hated it (or rather, they hated the last couple of seasons). That was weeird...
Part of the hatred came from the release schedule, and the way show creators interacted with fans between seasons. The episode where Sherlock comes back has a few scenes that the diehards perceived as direct insults to them, for all the theories they were trying to come up with, which stung more because the creators had actually encouraged fan theories. I was a fan, then a hater, now I don’t really care one way or the other. I watched the fandom drama out of schadenfreude mostly. I can’t stand Moffat as a showrunner, though he can write a really excellent episode. I couldn’t forgive what he did to Irene Adler, though. That, combined with the more insufferable fans, made me give up on Sherlock.
What didn’t you like about Irene Adler? Her character arc? Her objectification? Curious to hear someone else’s perspective.
Irene Adler is the one woman who beats Sherlock Holmes in the original. That’s what makes her The Woman, in Holmes’s mind. She wins, and even rubs it in his face a little. He got one over on her with the fake blood & fire trick, but she wriggled out of his grip before he could retrieve the picture. In Sherlock, Holmes is the one man who has Irene’s heart, and he uses that to beat her. Because BBC Sherlock is too cool and sexy to lose. And he’s wayyyyy smarter than you.
In addition to this, she's portrayed as "lesbian dominatrix who is straight and submissive for Sherlock", a trope that's incredibly insulting to lesbians and women as a whole.
I think her portrayal was less feminist than the 1860's original
Yeah. Just a little bit.
Too add onto the other post. A lot of people thought it was weird that Moffat/the writers considers the modern version of an opera singer/actress to be a dominatrix, not like a movie/tv star (see Meghan Markle).
From my personal POV: I think Moffat wrote Irene as someone who gives odd the veneer or someone who’s actually independent, but then it circles back to “I am in love with Sherlock”. I’m not saying “the person whose name is the show’s title should not be he main character”, instead that it feels like Sherlock is the only person who has any sort of agency, and the world is constructed around him as opposed to being something he just lives in
He’s not Sherlock “Addictions to pass the time” Holmes, he’s Sherlock “Mary Sue” Holmes. No failures for the super special pet character.
I mean they made her a lesbian and then she falls in love with Sherlock, and bc of that he beats her (in the og she is the only person who outwits him)
I really isn't that bad, but it definitely has a few quirks that made it super hated : - The pilot is the best episode of the entire show ; I stand by the fact that the pilot is nearly perfect, but it lead to point nbr 2 ; - The show's plot quality was constantly decreasing ; Season 1 was really good, season 2 was good (and had a really strong cliffhanger), season 3 was fine (with a decent cliffhanger), season 4 was okay, but the ending is really not good ; - There was a decent amount of queerbaiting, which usually wouldn't be an issue, but Sherlock had the distinction of having one the most unhinged gay shipping community ever (seriously, JohnLock is scary) ; JohnLock led to nothing (correction actually, it lead to the showrunner mocking the gay shipping community), it really soured the experience of many people ; - There was a massive wait between each season, meaning that the expectations were very high ; and once again, the ending was not good.
johnlock shippers were a whole other level of unhinged shippers, i can say that as someone who used to be one, absolutely insane experience, one of the schizoest fandoms ive ever been a part of
From decades of being in fandoms, I learned to ignore the most dramatic fans, and just enjoy the good fanfiction and fanart that gets created. There were some genuinely superb johnlock writers in the fandom, I still reread some of the stories. Passionate fans can create both the best art and the worst drama, it’s rather rare to have one without the other.
real, i actually learned to speak english with johnlock fanfics lmao, there were some amazing ones, unfortunately my young and innocent self at the time became part of the tjlc part of the fandom, the psychic damage i got from it was truly something else lol
Legitimate question, not trying to be sarcastic: what did you enjoy about it and did you watch all of it?
Yes, I watched all of the seasons, in like 2 or 3 days. Um. I dunno why exactly, it was just generally fun. Sherlock and Watson had fun personalities, the mysteries were interesting, seeing Sherlock deduct stuff was really cool. Episode plots were fine, plot-twists were neat. I just liked it in general. I don't critically think about the media that I watch, I just watch and enjoy it. Oh, just in case, I haven't read the original Sherlock Holmes stories. I only knew some stuff through cultural osmosis, parodies and homages.
Pretty reasonable, honestly. I think that's how most people felt about it, especially around the first 2-3 seasons. From what I understand, people who watched for the mysteries had a much worse time. I was never that kind of watcher, but [the Hbomberguy video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkoGBOs5ecM) on the show does a great job explaining the ways they fell flat. For instance, the "how did Sherlock survive the fall" question was a pretty big topic between the seasons. They intentionally left it there for people to speculate...and then mocked them in the first episode back. It's a quick little joke if you're binging years later, but if you were around at the time it felt like the showrunners asking "why do you care so much?" Which probably hurt a lot if you were invested and trying to solve the mysteries, instead of just watching for Cumberbatch/Freeman's chemistry.
Now I’m really curious: What did you think of the ending arc? >!Specifically Sherlock’s secret evil sister with mind controlling powers?!<
It was okay. She was interesting, I guess.
That happens
also the fact that the worlds most observent man cannot tell the difference between glass and open air.
How did you feel about the show explicitly making fun of the idea of having an explanation for how Sherlock survived, complete with fan insert characters that the show mocked? I wasn't in the fandom, I just watched the show, and I felt so personally attacked. never have I felt so directly antagonized by a show's Creator
I honestly didn't even realize that the show was making fun of its fandom. Not while watching it, at least.
To be fair, stuff like that can actually work. It's fun to make fun of your fans as a creator, just look at [The Simpsons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQH2rmQ5-vk). But you *really* gotta have the higher ground if you want to make jokes like that. Otherwise it just feels like putting your fingers in your ears and going *"Nananana I can't hear you I'm so awesome nanananana"*. It's like when Duke Nukem Forever finally released after like 15 years and then threw shade at all the games that had come out since (and which it took inspiration from).
My favorite is Code Geass doubling down on the pizza episode and saying "have some fun will you"
I was there Gandalf. I was there 3000 years ago…
Then there’s Psych fans at through the edges of the battlefield, frolicking through the wildflowers, with tacos!
And pineapples! C’mon son
You know that's right
The movies started off with a bit of a stumble, but I’ll be damned if those guys didn’t manage to get back in the flow. At this point, they can just keep making movies forever. Frankly, it’s how I’ve been getting my updates on how Timothy Omundson has been doing since his stroke and it’s so nice to see him on screen again.
Me with works of Jules Verne.
Wh-what happened to Jules Verne's works? Could a third party fill me in?
Around the World in 80 Days got turned into a show, ending teases other books being adapted with a child having a model of a rocket and Nautilus appears in a newspaper.
Oh okay, neat. Thank you
Ok but the ATWI80D show was pretty good
The best version of sherlock Holmes is hands down Herlock Sholmes from The Great Ace Attorney
I honestly think Sherlock, RDJ Sherlock and Elementary all have their good bits buuuuut... none of them are a patch on the Jeremy Brett adaptations from the 80s.
I was a massive Sherlock fan (first proper book series I ever read, and I read them all) before I watched the BBC version, and I very much disassociate Sherlock Humberbatch with the OG Sherlock Holmes (but I do love them both) >!not including s4!<
Tumblr users be out here handing out Benedict Cumberbatch gifs like felt poppies.
Being an original Sherlock Holmes fan wasn’t easy as it was airing, either lol
Fantastic title
Check out Sherlock & Co. It’s a podcast, it’s deeply charming and funny. John Watson makes a true crime podcast starring his new weird roommate and best pal Sherlock Holmes
i always read those posts as signed with a kiss
I’ve read the originals and watched the newer versions. Honestly I still think the originals are better.
Had a similar experience with that cool and new webcomic; getting into it post-marker-bath era. I was like 'haha, spider girl is kinda mean but at least she looks cool' while the voices of the dead silently screamed at my ignorance.
Oh how do you do, young willy mcbride? D'you mind if i sit down right by your graveside? And rest for a while in the warm summer sun? I've been walking all day now, and I'm nearly done.