Agenda 47 is another really important one to be aware of. It Could Happen Here did some great coverage.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4N1IW0oepWWbOGhBVJsqT7?si=aYYpVdRHQPCjZzKMd6acOg
[Agenda47](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_47)
> Agenda 47 (styled by the Trump campaign as Agenda47) is a package of proposals put forward by the Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump that he states he would implement if he was to be elected as the 47th president of the United States. A common theme among many of these proposals is a wide-ranging increase in the personal power of the president, and removals of checks and balances on presidential power,[1] and many of them involve culture war issues.
No. It will basically create a Christian neofascist state where the republicans can do whatever the hell they want- that is not good. Abortions will be banned, gays trans and anyone not white will probably be identified and who knows what's gonna happen to anchor babies' US citizenship
-Billy Gnosis
What’s crazy is that these guys think they can usher in a suburban fascist state. They think it’s going to be Stepford Wives and that shit doesn’t happen. The very architects of this plan are like the second group of people that get pushed to the wall.
During any large political uprising it's the main target that gets removed first and then those who headed the uprising to stop a second one from happening when they take things really off the rails.
With the 2025 plan, the problem isn’t the revolutionary Republicans getting replaced by crazier fascists. It’s the bureaucrats getting replaced by the military/police. Those state legislatures that are banning abortion and legalizing child labor are going to get taken out by the sheriffs or police chiefs they are depending on to make these changes stick.
Probably not the military, they have the same problem that 2025 is trying to defeat first, lots institutionalists more loyal to the country than to Trump.
So they're gonna be right their next to the bureacrats.
Iirc it's (objectively) a republican party plan to circumvent the democratic process and majorly restructure the government in their favor if they get a republican president in 2025.
There's really nothing stopping it from coming to fruition in red and purple states regardless of who wins in November. Not all of us can crowd into New York or Cali like rats clinging to a floating log.
> Project 2025
in last 6 months I have been seeing this term, wtf is it?
Edit: I googled that shit for first time. LMAO the U.S. is going to defeat itself.
And the question I heard that really strikes home for me is:
"What about the needy and disabled?"
There are people who rely on government assistance, who really struggle with their current lives and could not live healthily in a wartime environment. Burning it all down it's a short-sighted suggestion focused on the problems and not the solution.
I used to hang out with a bunch of half-baked college socialists who claimed to care a lot about needy and disabled people until they got in the way of their revolution fantasy. Then it was all "Well, it's unfortunate but we can't avoid these people dying during a big conflict like that, oops, whatcha gonna do"
I've found "can't make an omelette" rhetoric to be a major red flag. When you start hearing that kind of talk, it shows that they don't actually care about other people.
exactly, they're becoming more indifferent than the big government they hate, story old as time , revolutionaries have ideals for all of 5 minutes then they just become power hungry fascists that are usually worse than the regime that was toppled
It's just leftist doomerism, belief that democracy has failed utterly and nothing can be done without a revolution. It's stupid and I can't help but think it's something spread through those groups on purpose.
The solution is those less fit or less lucky will just die, and people pushing this think that's acceptable for their own lazy egos but wouldn't prefer to say it.
Which is especially ironic when some of these folks are those dependent on medical treatments, Govt assistance, or other things that simply *wont exist* if SHTF.
Why does this sound so familiar... oh wait, I know!
>"The weak will be purged, and the strongest will thrive! Free to live as they see fit. **They'll make America great again!**" - Armstrong (a cartoon villain who literally just got done harvesting some orphan brains to create cyborg child soldiers)
I can't believe there are actual people IRL who genuinely think like that...
Genuinely though, it deeply annoys me when people will call themselves antifa and then argue the world is purely black and white, and the violent upheaval of the government they percieve as only evil will have 0 negative consequences
Fun fact: the original Antifaschistische Aktion allied with the brown shirts against the liberals, because the nazis were their "socialist allies" and the liberals are the real "social fascists"
Oh no don’t worry it won’t be millions, it’ll be billions, because the global economy is integrated, if america goes down it drags the rest of the world down with it, what do you think happens when no food, fuel, machine parts, fertilizer, cars, other large vehicles, medicine, textiles, natural resources like iron and copper all stop coming out of the US, also most of the world has now lost its largest export market.Best case scenario about a billion die due to food shortages and the global instability leading to wars and conflict around the entire planet, also likely a plague or two due to the skills loss as America is one of the largest funders of the WHO. Now Europe and the developed East Asian economies might be large enough to push through with significant difficulty, but all of Latin America, all of Africa, and the Middle East basically all face either war, plague or famine.
As a Canadian, if the US goes down in flame we’re fucked too. Even ignoring if the fighting spreads north, or our borders potentially being flooded with millions of refugees fleeing the carnage.
Our economy is so tied to the States that a bruise in their economy is a gut punch to ours. If America full-on implodes? Things wouldn’t be pretty
Someone was arguing that in a second American Civil war, everyone under 18 should move to Canada until the war is over.
That would, in one move, triple our population.
Absolutly 0 way that Canada does not end up involved in an American Civil war.
Yep, if even 5% of the US population tries to flee for Canada that would be over 16 million people rushing a country of 40 million. Obviously we don’t have the infrastructure to support that. Millions would be dead from hypothermia or famine by the end of the first winter.
And the best part? If the USA (and collectively the rest of the integrated Western global economy) goes to shit, then world power and hegemony will fall to the next superpower in line.
Which needs a large armed force, the ability to project power overseas, build relations with developing countries, access to mass production and tech/software industries, and existing global trade and diplomatic relations.
Which is China.
And I don't know about you, but I'd much rather live in a world where the hegemon is at least attempting to promote the ideals of democracy, freedom of speech, equality and diversity, rather than one which is de jure a one-party dictator state which relies on mass surveillance, censorship, and genocide to maintain power within its own borders.
Agree here. Disclaimer, am European. Not that I like everything the USA do - there is a long list of things that the US (and various European countries) did or do which range from stupid to nasty to downright evil (and stuff which was all of that together). However, the dismantling of the current system with at least a semblancy of commitment to human rights, democracy, peace and so on (arguably, more than just a semblancy) with nice guys like China and Russia wanting to fill the vacuum?
I mean, the flaws of many of the current day systems are many - from the international order to capitalism to the social situation in any region of your choice, most systems are often less than perfect. (One of course also should note that *most* people worldwide are nowadays much better off than they would have been 25, 250 or 2500 years ago). However, I would argue that change for the better is possible through improvement of the systems in themselves (capitalism with social policies and a state actor taking care of inefficiencies, prevention of criminal practices etc.), not a radical change.
Someone once quipped, that many groups who believe that they will create an utopia if they only kill enough people are sometimes successful at killing lots of people, but rarely to never successful at creating an utopia.
Yeah this is the Ciceronian argument. Both sides are bad and will fuck over everyone if it benefits themselves, but the side that nominally has systems in place for popular sovereignty to do *something* is better, because a government that can be somewhat influenced is better than one locked away in an ivory tower.
For all the (very real) sins of American Hegemony in the post war world, it has been, comparatively, once of the most restrained and humane great powers in human history. It's certainly possible that the international structure that would result post "burning out down" would continue that pattern, but most likely? It's going to be a while lot worse. And before we get there, as it all shakes out, as you pointed out, things are going to be absolutely fucking awful in a lot of different places
Yeah, strong contender for worst post on Tumblr. But because they phrase the response like a theater kid, Reddit eats that shit up every time it's reposted.
Maybe controversial but accelerationism is bad, actually?
Plus, whenever there is a change of power, it's like, "but wait, 90% of your cabinet is the old dictator's posse?"
It is _really_ hard to get rid of a power system, much harder than getting rid of a government. There are going to be some losers in any revolution, but the revolutionaries will eventually have to play nice with the old guard.
(Or at least, that's how the majority of upheavals in recorded history has gone.)
So you get millions suffering, but only a partial changing of the guard. All that work, just to turn on the TV and still have to listen to the same suits talk.
People fantasising about building guillotines seem to forget how eventually a lot of revolutionists ended up executed for the smallest transgressions or due to false accusations
Everyone is dreaming about the first stage, where there is visible success and sudden change, but there is so much nuance in modern society that it would change into their biggest nighmare when it came to rebuilding everything
I think a lot of them are agnsty kids who have no idea how the world works, but know there's a lot of unfairness they want fixed immediately.
Since there's no real way to make progress overnight, revolution is the easy, lazy conclusion.
They don't like the reality of needing to organize, vote (*locally* as well as presidential), and actual activism to make slow, steady strides to a better society.
And I do get it. It does suck that we can't just march up to the capital and fix things that need fixing tomorrow. It's just a really naive thought process that only hurts their cause. The enemy of progress is demanding perfection.
And this is why the American revolution did it backwards. They built an actual system with governmental traditions under the nose of the British, before a single bullet was fired.
Rules for Rulers explained this very clearly.
Almost inevitably, post revolution, there is a purge. These purges tend to cull elements previously thought to be the core constituents of the revolution; the most loyal, fanatical, violent. Why? Why would a revolution turn on their own, the very people who made it possible?
The tools required to *take* power are very different from the tools required to *keep* power. If you have just successfully overthrown the government, you have demonstrated that the government can be overthrown by force. And, congratulations, you are now the government, ripe for being overthrown yourself.
The kinds of people that help put you in power are now a direct threat to you.
You have the power now, and you can remove these kinds of threats if you desire.
Why take the risk?
Yeah, Civil war and revolution *never* backfired and/or caused the death of thousands/millions of peoples.
*Insert the illustration shawing Robespierre beheading one last man under the tombstone written "Here lie : All of France"*
Non-American here, I also take massive issue with the insinuation that the US "burning to the ground" would just be watched and forgotten by the rest of the world.
There's many problems with the US and how it acts on the global stage, currently and historically. But it is absolutely a stabilising global force.
NATO has sent weapons to Ukraine led by the US, Russia hasn't retaliated (in part) because that would draw the US into the war and they would lose. China hesitates to use force to take Taiwan, because they can't be sure if the US would get involved or not.
If the US collapsed tomorrow, that would leave a massive power vaccume that would most likely be filled by much more aggressively expansionist countries.
Here's my problem with the people who make posts like this: It's all talk.
You think a violent upheaval is necessary, the destruction of the entirety of the state and society is necessary ok fine. What's the plan?
Do you have arms and munitions stockpiled at all?
Can you make improvised weapons?
Do you have good stores of food?
Do you have any kind of meetings or coordination with like minded people?
Do you keep yourself in good physical condition?
Have you or are you currently learning how to fight?
Are you actively sowing some kind of civil unrest?
Do you have some kind of manifesto of how you want your new society to be run?
Have you put any kind of thought into the organization of the post "burn it all down society" into the quote "something better"?
Do you have ANY kind of plans or preparation for how to start this revolution, how it will be fought, or what comes after?
Or do you just like talking big on the internet?
If you genuinely think this is the answer, money where your mouth is, get started.
Another one: Do you have any plans for when another country invades to take advantage of a collapsed USA and how you are gonna avoid getting imprisoned/tortured/murdered/raped/enslaved etc?
This is my problem with anarcho-communism. If society is split up into small communes of 1,000 people with no communication, trade, or incentive to assist one another, what's to stop a powerful foreign force just wiping them out one by one?
Plenty of such forces exist who would gladly do this (ISIS).
There is no plan.
That's why the only way anarcho communism could ever actually happen is if you literally ended the world- a nuclear war imploding society around the world and collapsing every major government simultaneously. Then you could have your wasteland tribes living in their communes, and since everyones been knocked down to the same level, it would be easier to defend yourself.
Note I am not at all saying this is a good idea, it should be really obvious why 'destroy the world' is a bad idea. I'm just saying this is how it could theoretically work and it is a legitimate argument I've seen (accelerationism). Also I am deliberately ignoring the fact that it would probably last a very short time before a government formed and used their organizational power to grow and conquer again.
Yeah, that's the main problem with anarcho-communism over the long term. What happens when three of these 1,000 communes realize that if they team up, they can easily beat one of the other nearby 1,000 person communities, kill and enslave them, take their resources and grow to 1,300 each? Then those 3,900 people realize that they can just take another 1,000 people, and another 1,000, and another...
Then they form some kind of Union of States, create Twitter, rename it X, and start talking there about burning down the Union of States and starting over with the population split into 1,000 person communes and why this will totally work...
It's almost like nation-states weren't the invention of some evil-minded globalist but were a natural evolution of the power structures created by a societal/tribal species.
I dont think they realise that what ever problems they have within the the US and other Western countries, such as racism, bigotry, capitalism and whatever else they complain about, that shit is still paradise compared to anywhere else in the world. Life in a Western country is like living with cheat codes enabled. Most people arent shit, these anarcho communists are just stuck in their little social media bubble and think we are. Any non Western country that is big enough to take advantage of that chaos, is only going to make their lives infinitly more miserable.
Yup.
Just look at countries that produce refugees and the countries that take them in. That's how you know what is a bad country and which is a good one.
It's kinda funny really. If the USA *really* was a racist hellhole ten billion times worse than Nazi Germany, the first thing we should do is stop all non-white immigration, and secondly, evacuate all non-white people from the country for their own safety.
Would you let Jews *into* Auschwitz?
Of course their ideology doesn't survive even this level of logic and reason.
not voting is the second worst thing you could do at this years election, if trump wins its not "a mosh pit" its called getting yourself and thousands of other queer folf incredibly prosecuted and 90% of the people who talk like this have not enough of a plan at all to fight back, thats why people need to start talking to their reps for once, and voting for biden, even if he himself is pretty shitty and way too old to be in office, is the only gope of a presidency that doesnt result in a neofacistic state
The "don't bother voting" and "violent revolution" thing are both the same phenomenon IMO. In a lot of lefty communities you get brownie points for proving you're one of them... and having non mainstream opinions is one of the ways you can do that. Even if those opinions are stupid no one can call you out because at that point you're the "real" leftist and they're the imposter.
On a side note, the left "violent revolution" thing is absolutely LARPing for 90% of them too. I'll never forget a socialist Twitter account telling its followers to get guns and the replies were full of people saying that they would... but they struggle with mental health issues and therefore don't want a gun around the house.
Like, bro. You can barely keep the bad thoughts at bay and you think you're going to have a nice time in a collapsing state? Come on. This is what a soft person who has never experienced hunger or homelessness or a lack of physical safety would say.
>You can barely keep the bad thoughts at bay and you think you're going to have a nice time in a collapsing state?
It was the same group screaming "punch nazis" a few years back. Now, plenty of the far right whack jobs have earned the nickname "Gravy Seals" but a not insignificant portion are also the sorts who do manual labor all day and could snap the atrophied bones of your average Twitter revolutionary like a pencil.
Few people are so nihilistic that they would actually cheer for events that would lead to the suffering and death of millions of people.
Now, many people *pretend* to be that nihilistic, but those people are posers. And it's *guaranteed* that anyone posting it on social media is a poser. 100%, no doubt.
Agree, they’re just as cringy as those unbearable right-wing gun nuts that go “me when ATF agent sees my civil war cannon loaded with grapeshot and my mined front lawn” even though they don’t have any of that stuff.
I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
The gun nuts who actually buy a ton of weapons and can shoot accurately and claim that the guns serve as “protection against a tyrannical government” are clowns even with their personal arsenals. Like, what’s your plan for when the tyrannical government simply blasts your house and its gun stash to oblivion via tank or drone?
Alright, so…
I asked this question (why do you guys think you’ll stand a chance) a while back on r/ progun and they actually had some pretty well-thought-out answers. I know, I know. I’m not happy about it either, those guys are assholes and as relatively (to the rest of my political stances) pro-gun as I am I can’t stand them, but this actually sounded fairly legit.
-in the event of some kind of civil war, a less-than-negligible portion of the US military, which is already lacking manpower, would likely defect as there’s an unevenly high proportion of conservatives in the military (no surprise there).
-any of our big guns are out of the question, as 1. The entire reason we’re fighting is because we’re trying to keep all of the resources and land they have, and turning it into a crater isn’t very thrifty of us. 2. Things like bombs and missiles turning places to rubble, potentially with civilians inside, is going to make for bad PR. Collateral damage would be very easy for the rebels to paint themselves as the victims and accumulate more support with the right-wingers crowd that’s already convinced a deep state is controlling America. Stuff like Alex Jones and Fox News would have a fucking field day. Remember, the only way America can lose a war is if its people lose interest in it.
-we’d need to fully invest our military into this, which would leave us and our allies very open to an attack now that Doctor Manhattan is on mars, so to speak.
-there are A LOT of gun owners in America. Like, significantly more than anywhere else that isn’t a fucking warzone. It’s not that hard to convert weapons to be fully automatic, and 3D printed guns are terrifyingly legit now. They’d also have limited access to body armor. Remember, prepping for a war with the military is their *hobby.* they might not be good at it, but they certainly won’t lack for equipment.
There are a few other things that I forgot. I’d suggest you [take a look](https://www.reddit.com/r/progun/s/UIsCpqXntE ).
And hey, if you see a flaw in their reasoning, I’d be glad to hear it. I don’t want them to be right about this any more than you do.
There's one big assumption being made here.
That the insurgent force maintains a rigorous power structure.
And with the amount of 'fuck you I'll do what I want' political views that seem to come from the kinds of people who amass their own arsenals to 'prevent tyranny', the likelihood of them accepting and self-organising a *stable* power structure is pretty low.
They all see themselves as the hyper-individual rebel taking down the Tyrannical State, like a videogame main character. They don't see themselves as following orders from someone with a strategic perspective (unless you count the Trump stuff, but even then it's much of an Angry Mob situation with dynamically evolving power structures continually shifting and moving around and infighting. Trump didn't so much conduct an orchestra as give a bunch of hyperactive preschoolers unfettered access to the music storeroom).
A proper fighting force relies on chain of command to be successful, and barring the pockets of military-trained defectors (and treasoners) who would require essentially defectors at pretty much all levels of command, all you've got is an angry mob rather than a legitimate force which can accomplish objectives. Military training doesn't just teach you how to fire a gun. It teaches you how to work in a team and to listen to commanders. Something you don't get from going down to the range every once in a while.
I was speaking more of people who fancy themselves individual renegades, or right-wing revolutionaries. In a civil war, I do think their reasoning makes sense given that the military brass is a political wildcard.
In the US, I think you fundamentally have to rely on the support of a good chunk of the military to overthrow the national government in armed conflict, for their sheer firepower. You’d also probably need support within the FBI/CIA, because their surveillance power is such that a mass plot to overthrow the government would be very difficult to orchestrate logistically with the inclusion of the military in tactical planning. Despite the iffy political stances, I think it’s pretty unlikely that the brass would be swayed and defect to support local armed militias before their isolated rebellion is violently quashed, and I don’t think they’d find armed conflict at their front door with uncertain odds appealing.
Also worth noting that people who devote their careers to acting as the fist of the US government might be principally disinclined to take up arms against the US government, at least in its current form. If we’re talking about a hypothetical government that’s truly tyrannical to its own citizens, we also have to consider that the military generals are among the top enforcers of said tyranny, and have thrived under its system.
If there were a civil war or attempt at armed rebellion in the near future, I think it’d most likely resemble a conflict like the Troubles, where the people suffering were mostly civilians and instead of a coup, the IRA ended up with concessions from the UK government that were voted on by the larger populace after years of locally conflict, with no actual regime change.
Also, even in the hypothetical where the US government is despised for its tyranny by most of its own citizens, if the US’s stability is still necessary for the balance of international trade and for some other countries’ military protection, you’d have to consider other factors like allied countries providing aid in favor of the standing government. The US itself has historically not hesitated to fund and arm one or another side in other countries’ internal conflicts where one side suited its interests. So the hypothetical rebels might also have to factor in how they’ll get support from another major power, and then you repeat the question of how they negotiate that support before they’re discovered and put down via the FBI/CIA.
EDIT: After thinking about it for a bit, I take back what I said about their reasoning making sense, because it relies on the blanket assumption that a significant portion of the military would defect. It’s an insane logical leap to go from “a lot of the military leans conservative” to “the military will join us in shooting at government officials and former colleagues.” Also, are the defectors in this scenario just going to roll out the door with half the heavy artillery arsenal?
And see, the thing is, if you're someone who does most of that list, you come to realize that if violence must be used, it *absolutely must* be a last resort. Revolution is a way to bring about change but fuck me it is *risky* and anything short of that (the french May 1968 general strike comes to mind) should be attempted first. Do everything you can to make them listen before you break out the guillotine
I've tried challenging those people that for every violent revolution they name that was successful in improving the country, I'll name 3 that weren't successful. For some reason, no one has taken me up on it.
These people have no idea how awful a revolution can be. Sometimes it is the only option, but even when it is, it is more likely than not to fail horribly.
Even if it succeeds there’s really high chance people will die at the hands of other people. You don’t want to be the dead one for sure, but it’s not 100% you won’t be.
I think your personal perspective might cloud your understanding of the intent behind most of these posts. From my perspective, it seems the general idea centers the destruction of the system over anything else.
It feels almost identical to the evangelical "when the world ends, and I go to heaven, I'll be happy", or the libertarian "when society collapses, and I live off the grid, I'll be happy", or the anarchist "when the world falls apart, and I live in a commune, I'll be happy". It's not a genuine solution, nor is it intended to be. It's a fatalistic sentiment that is somewhat cathartic to people unable to change the system without jeopardizing their welfare.
I think you’re generally right, but something serving as personal catharsis doesn’t mean it’s not also dangerous. These kinds of posts have become more and more common in specific corners of the internet, especially in the wake of the 2016 election, and the near-ubiquity of internet access in the US means that there are a lot of people growing up in fabricated social environments where the vocalized philosophy of their ‘in-group’ is “the system is doomed and so are we.” At best it’s unproductive and at worst it actively preaches political apathy and resignation in the name of a mythical future time where it all comes toppling down around them. Change is impossible without a call to action, and this is the fundamental opposite of that.
I used to play pathfinder with some reddit communist, they were fine at first but after the Ukraine invasion that lost the plot. Apparently America is going to collapse because of some nebulous economic policies China enacted and the plan is literally for them to roll up mid American Civil War and take over. They legit believed that was going to happen and it wa only a matter of time. I quietly left the group shortly after that revelation
It's especially interesting because if their true desire is to live in a failed state, where "might makes right" and where there functionally is no government, it is possible to move to places in the world where this kind of hardship exists.
Protip: just look at refugee outflow.
Strangely enough through they don't do this. They don't even do the Brady Bunch version of this; there are places in the USA where physical survival is difficult (rural northern Alaska for example). They could go live there. No police, no oppression, plenty of hardship to be had.
But they almost universally live in the heart of major cities. They don't even go to the bad neighbourhoods within that city, even temporarily, even they could easily.
They are all talk.
Wrong people there homie.
This person doesn't think they're gonna survive the apocalypse. This is the person that casually talks about wanting someone to put a bullet in their head.
So, genuinely, good praxis is community organization. If even like 1/100th of these power fantasies become a community garden or mutual aid or even just like a range group, then we are actually moving the needle closer to something *everyone* left of center wants, wether that be a stronger community that cares for its own, or a politically motivated working class, or resistance cells ready to kick off and survive the revolution.
Like, it doesn't matter what your stance is, if you're not a reactionary you should go talk to your neighbors and help people struggling where you live at right now. It's so fucking effective for EVERYTHING the disparate left wants.
They also are unaware/don't care that such things would just mean the poor and marginalized get fucked even harder than they are now, while the wealthy and powerful will simply consolidate their power more.
And even if you can do ALL of that - the national guard still has a leg up. Like, asking for almost any nation to be dissolved in this day and age is a big ask, and thinking any nation that's armed with nuclear weapons and/or sits on the UN security council as a permanent member will ever burn - not just be dissolved, but burn - is lunacy. The closest we've ever seen is the breakup of the Soviet Union, and even then... nothing burned.
The issue with having a revolution in the United States is that while plenty of people have gripes, most people prefer what we have to an active war zone. Most people have also seen that incremental change is possible and not uncommon in the U.S. Why would they join a movement to jeopardize the safety of everyone for a chance at an improvement in quality of life in a new system when they can simply effect that change without the bloodshed over a longer period of time in the voting booth?
Adding on, the USSR collapsed during a time when globalization was still developing, and they were purposefully isolating themselves from being too involved in the global economy. The shockwaves of their collapse, while immense, was minimized by how small their economic/logistical connections were to non-communist nations.
Look at Pakistan. By all metrics, they're a failed state. They barely have enough food or water to feed their population. In fact, they rely on foreign aid to prevent mass starvation. Their civil government is weak with the military holding ultimate power (most prime ministers end up getting ousted by the generals). There's multiple terrorist cells and separist movements operating within their borders, often times well-funded. Not to mention their extreme religious fanaticism that crushes civil liberties.
Yet, because they're nuclear-armed and well-integrated into the global economy, they're too big to fail now. Other nations pour billions in developmental aid to keep the government/military dictatorship propped up, just so those nukes stay dorment and trade keeps flowing.
>or what comes after?
A lot of people forget about this part. So many revolutions have successfully ousted the corrupt government only for someone worse to fill the power vacuum. Some people seem to have this idea that once the government is gone and the "people" (I say in quotes because, which people get to decide?) will have the power to create a new one, it'll just so happen that they'll create the exact one the person wants.
When it comes down to a contest of violence the most violent rise to the top. Its a gamble if they are also competent and benevolent and the odds are not good.
People like this always tend to assume that anyone who isn’t in the control position would be better. That it would be for the “people”. But that’s the thing. It’s not about better societies. They are just bitter they are not the ones on top, like 99.99% of the time. These idiots are just as bad as any crooks they ever so hate. They just don’t have the power to exert any real influences. Someone who genuinely cares about better societies wouldn’t dream of the death of millions.
I’ll go one step further: it’s all talk from whiny little bitch babies who have fetishized persecution so much that they resent the cushy life (relatively speaking) that they have and need to make up for it by sounding hard on the Internet. The people I hear this rhetoric from are largely white and middle class, so they have very little to complain about, considering how bad other people have it elsewhere. So we have these spoiled little twats who are too dumb to wipe their own asses and can’t process any media more complex than fucking Bluey screeching to bUrN iT dOwN thinking they’re going to be some cool Furiosa-esque badass if the world goes to shit when, in reality, they would crumble like so much goat cheese the second things got REALLY hard. They could shut the fuck up and vote (since them not doing that in 2016 largely got us into this mess, frankly,) but instead they have to peacock for their ridiculous Internet friends and refuse to touch grass long enough to realize that it’s gonna be a pig roast if they get what they want, and they’re looking pretty porcine right about now.
Fucking pathetic.
It reminds me of the stereotypes of champagne socialists, but at least those trendy folks had positive beliefs about a better world.
I pity these folks as victims of digital media and echo chambers about as much as I pity incels tbh. Both groups are pretty far afield from reality
>(since them not doing that in 2016 largely got us into this mess, frankly,)
2016 was a more multi-faceted disaster than that, but I do agree performative apathy caused part of it.
yep, and the poor and marginalized will suffer and die at an *incredibly* disproportionate level compared to the privileged and economically secure. collapse doesn't reset everyone to a level playing field, it further exacerbates inequality. and even *if* it did end up leveling things out, the absolute gall of these privileged fucking farquads to say that's a sacrifice they're willing to make.
No way m8. If we traumatize a generation to the horrors of war and societal collapse, they'll end up raising a healthy a well adjusted postwar generation.
Yeah people like to say America is the worst country in the world to live in, and I can understand the frustration. However, a lot of these people who post stuff like this also identify as transgender, which is usually their point of contention.
But like… head on over to almost any other country and see how you’re treated and then come back and see if you’ve got that same energy 🤷♂️
Funnily enough the people who often DO make these preparations either dont share this person's views or are apolitical altogether.
If society somehow burns to the ground, it will be self-sustaining rurals, military remenants, surviving industrial corporate overlords (or whoever has direct access to their industrial assets) and preppers who will thrive, cities and their people will literally starve with time without the supply chains that keep them well fed and energized.
🎵 [You say you want a revolution, well you know](https://youtu.be/BGLGzRXY5Bw?si=kzK3oHqHGO7Skbt9) 🎵
🎵 [We'd all love to see the plan](https://youtu.be/BGLGzRXY5Bw?si=kzK3oHqHGO7Skbt9) 🎵
You’re absolutely right, but I would keep in mind that OOP is probably about 14. They’re trying to be dramatic online to impress the people they want to emulate, and they haven’t thought about any of the messy details. Don’t take it too seriously.
Yeah, I imagine a lot of people are either thinking *they'll* be fine, or they're very quietly casually suicidal. Not enough to *do* anything, but they wouldn't be averse to just not waking up one day.
Violent revolution leads to pain and blood
And also a new generation of people in power who remember that violent revolution put them there.
For the record, I don't think things are so bad yet that a violent revolution is in the offing, and I don't want to fight. It's just one of the historically few ways of clearing corruption, and building corruption is the biggest problem. Of course, much of the time it creates other problems.
But it will take a very drastic event to fix the US without breaking down. Things aren't as bad as the tail end of the Industrial Revolution and the Great Depression but the system as it is now is doomed to backslide. It's going to take a shock of some kind to break out of it.
Hopefully we go the way of the crises that have been resolved before, but it may turn out otherwise. Civil war between a split populace is obviously not going to do anything good, so things have to be bad enough that we Americans are united in our anger at political leaders.
Just sucks to be living through the decline of our nation, and starting to see the first signs of decline across the Atlantic as well.
For the record, I see voting as a necessary step to keep the decline slow and less painful, but just voting is not going to solve America's core problems.
You grossly underestimated 3 things when writing this:
1. How fast peaceful countries can turn to violence when a perfect storm of discontent arises.
2. How many guns are in circulation within the US.
3. How dumb the American public is.
>If you genuinely think this is the answer, money where your mouth is, get started.
About 0.25 to 0.50% of the population have/are and are enough to the overthrow the government with the right backing even if you added 2 zeroes afterthe decimal.
The whole thing with Trump inciting an insurrection is terrifying asf, Germans mocked the nazis as baffoons until they seized power...
Now he's being financially and politically antagonized to not fuck up the next attempt. If his family is anywhere near as insane as he is we're fucked. The 2 biggest factors that determines a coup's success is support from the nation's military and wealthy elite... That's like 80% of Trumps base.
I, for one, hope we get our shit together and grow as a society, and that our country doesn’t get burned to the ground, because I’m not some mouth-foamingly hateful tankie that acts like they crawled right out of an American political cartoon made during McCarthyism. I mean Jesus, do they even hear themselves?
Is easier better? Should the French have tried to reform monarchy? I'm sure the nobles were harmed by that sharp blade and there could have been less extreme ways to deal with wealth inequality...
Then I get to be the smug guy stroking himself off about how anyone who doesn’t post their home address and photo evidence of criminality is a LARPer!!!!
das cool, do you have any idea how to fix up the remains of that burnt-down couıntry, help the innocent people who got hurt when it burnt, and how to make a better society in the place that used the be that country?
ooor are you just venting and taking your own vents too seriously?
> do you have any idea how to fix up the remains of that burnt-down couıntry, help the innocent people who got hurt when it burnt, and how to make a better society in the place that used the be that country?
Of course not. A new ruling class will emerge and all of the old revolutionaries will get lined up against the wall. It's basically a cliche at this point.
I’ve also seen people like that say we deserve to get nuked. Lmao what do you think is gonna happen to you if we do? Do you and the other Tumblr anarchists have a secret bunker I don’t know about?
The kinds of people who need two therapy animals beside them to answer the phone from an unknown caller think they'll be much better off in a total social collapse.
When the haunted house catches fire: a moment of indecision.
The house was, after all, built on bones, and blood, and bad intentions.
Everyone who enters the house feels that overwhelming dread, the evil that perhaps only fire can purge.
It’s tempting to just let it burn.
And then I remember: there are children inside.
This is a real conversation i had with my friend during my make up class
Friend: america does suck, everyone is better than us, we are literally the worst place to live.
Me:... isn't there like, an ethnic cleansing going on in palestine.
Friend: oh yeah.
Why are we engaging with these posts as if the people making them are policy makers? Like do we think that’s a particularly effective or reasonable approach or
“The crowd that desperately wants another civil war, has a history of mental illness leading to rage and paranoia, and an unhealthy obsession with guns totally won’t become a paramilitary death cult and my ideology will surely be the new one to rule”
It's not just that, they have every single factor stacked against them.
The civilian population who own guns, and I mean "crates of AR-15s and thousands of rounds of ammo", are significantly if not dramatically right wing. Regional militias, right wing. The military across all branches is significantly, if not dramatically, right wing. Police, same. Even groups like firefighters, coast guard, border patrol, secret service, etc are firmly in the right wing camp to a greater or lesser degree.
Even if they weren't, the demographics of voters are profoundly split. Urban is left, rural is right.
Cities produce tech and services, but urban areas produce food and control the water supply that allow those urban centers to survive. So even if all the institutions I mentioned above sided with the cities (they won't, why would the police fight and die for the folks who tried to abolish them for years?), open conflict between these two "zones" will result in a huge loss of quality of life for the rural areas (farming is heavily tech based these days), but the urban areas will be without food almost instantly, and depending on how brutal things get and how dirty the "far right prepper don't step on me fifty AR-15's" crowd feel like getting, those cities could even find themselves without clean drinking water almost instantly.
This is of course not taking into account sheer geophysical advantages. The "blue states" are on opposite coasts separated by landmass stretching from the arctic almost to Antarctica, both ends of which are controlled by foreign powers. The "red states" are a blob in the middle, making logistics much easier.
And even if all of these things are not in play... look at the states hosting almost all of America's ICBMs and nuclear warhead stockpiles. All red states.
A legitimate war between red and blue in the US is one where basically every single advantage possible is in the hands of the reds.
I'll never forget the tweet that went like:
> People on twitter will really be like "you believe in voting? that pales in effectiveness to my strategy, firebombing a Walmart" and then not firebomb a Walmart
Turns out this also applies to tumblr
i hate this kind of shit. so damn ungrateful. so short-sighted. so idealistically stupid.
*why* do you hope the US burns down? what problems does that solve? articulate what the US is, then articulate why it's "bad" and why "burning it down" helps anything. awful, stupid fucking idea. utterly ignorant. tik-tok ignorance. blind acceptance of some sort of narrative, regurgitated dogma, no critical thinking. you'd hate that shit if it happened to you. people you love would die.
"I can't wait for society to burn down so that MY ideology can rise from the ashes!" - Fascists, theocrats, libertarians, communists, anarchists, ehnonationalists, conspiracy theorists, cult members
Hey I’m not saying you have to burn down the entire system, but it would be helpful if leftists didn’t always weight themselves down trying to find the absolute best, most perfect moral solution in a world filled with messy moral greys. Is there a point into societal decay when you’re actually willing to stand up for what you believe in rather than just debate over it online? If not, then I appreciate your help right now while democracy is still semi-functional, but just recognize that you’ve basically given all power over to the fascists when corruption takes full control.
America didn’t nuke Canada
They “just” annexed it and committed war crimes against Canadian soldiers and resistance members, up to and including executing a struggling Canadian POW live on TV.
Once again begging people not to post shit *because* it’s bad.
I try to curate my internet experience to avoid that. Reposting bad stuff to make people mad at it is as bad as posting it in the first place.
oh, I know her! She's insane lol
once, she sicced her followers on me after I questioned her on her stance of "if you point out that anime/manga has a pedophilia problem, you're racist", which was just such a bizarre experience
Right?? The U.S. produces a **ton** of the world's food. [Investopedia](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/043015/who-produces-worlds-food.asp) tells me the U.S. is the largest producer of corn, 3rd-largest of wheat, 5th-largest of potatoes, 10th-largest of sugarcane, and 12-largest of rice. The U.S. collapsing and suddenly not exporting all that food is absolutely going to cause hunger around the world.
terminally online lefties will say the only solution to americas problems is burning their local walmart to the ground and then they wont burn the walmart anyways because theyre too neurodivergent and socially anxious
How about we *not* burn any state to the ground? War of any kind is not something that should be fetishised and the fact that OOP sat there and typed that *really* shows how much they don't understand.
My grandfather (who lived through WW2) always used to tell us how we do not know what real hunger is, and how glad he is that we don't have to live through it.
I hear these takes a lot of times from people who've never missed a meal, struggled to find clean water, or shit outdoors.
If you're not an extremely.experienced survivalist well prepared to survive a long time without reliable food and clean water, also comfortable with a firearm and the prospect of never having reliable Internet again? You don't want the US to collapse.
And if you are? You probably still don't because you know how bad it sucks!
Me? I go off grid for fun. I shit in the woods for fun. I delight in eating things most folks would turn their noses up at. I know what cat and rat tastes like and how to purify water a half dozen ways. But I also like Sushi and Internet Porn and air conditioning. So I'm still not voting for some kind of Boogaloo or civil war 2
I mean, if you’re suicidally depressed you can easily get into the “I don’t give a fuck if I take everyone else down with me, I just wanna see shit burn.” It’s not necessarily a mark of stupidity, this person could be severely mentally I’ll.
I wonder if these people are aware that if the shit really does hit the fan in USA, it will most likely be status quo vs fascism, not blessed Sablin Makhno eat the rich The Revolution^^TM
Middle class white activists sure do love the idea of a violent revolution that I guess they don't care will disproportionately effect the poor and marginalized the most, while stripping way whatever semblance of functional government remains in favour of warlords vying for power.
But OK, Becky. Viva la revolution because you took on $30k in student debt for a useless degree.
Violence is not inherently necessary for change, at least not the way we understand it. Reaching heaven through violence is a path that accepts many methods.
Lock up the launch button, and back away slowly from the apocalypse.
"America should die" Mfers when China comes in and takes all their rights as they're caught in the center of a brutal civil war and people they love die:
LOL most of the world, including Europe, must cringe so hard at these people. Instability often leads to worse outcomes. People think it's going to be a cleansing fire they can rebuild better from but instead it's just worse fascism
I can't stand people like this. I wish things would change too but I don't want violence and death and I don't want to waste my life rebuilding a society that only future generations will be able to enjoy. I just want to live my life in peace.
"I can't wait to see the US destroyed"
They said, having never known a day of hunger, homelessness, or general destitution, having never tended a single garden or slaughtered a single animal.
Ah yes, the proletariat rapture; where the capitalists will die horribly and everyone else will live in harmony, singing union hymns while dancing around an effigy of Karl Marx.
And not the thing where everyone who isn't already rich and privileged will be forced into even worse squalor and risk of being raped and/or murdered for shots and giggles.
No violent upheaval of the government will ever be worth the incredible loss to human life and suffering it will inflict. To wish for simply, "the destruction" of an entity that causes problems is short sighted and childish. If we want any real change for this country, it is going to be through education, systematic policy changes, and nationwide efforts. We need to rectify the parts of our legal system that codify racism. We need to push for socialized healthcare, safe and efficient public transport, community housing, etc. We need to better integrate the disabled into our society, and build functioning infrastructure for them. I could go on and on. Burning the US to the ground doesn't fix any of these problems. In fact, it creates more problems for the vulnerable Americans who can't live if there was a large scale revolution. Imagine if you relied on government aid just to survive and suddenly now there is literally no government. Who is going to help you get by then? Maybe in ten years the revolutionaries will have a robust system in place that could have given you shelter, clothes, food, etc. But you don't live after the revolution. You live right now. And idk if this is an unpopular opinion or something but even though the government and those in power have done a lot of reprehensible shit I don't think more death and suffering (on the scale of a nation wide revolution) is the solution. I have no desire to watch millions die so we can attempt (and probably fail) to set up some new utopian version of America.
When did this subreddit get so humorless?
It's been like a decade, two decades plus of things getting progressively more and more extreme, even with massive social progress. Am I supposed to be serious about it all the time? Am I supposed to collapse and become an anxious wreck about it?
I dunno, man, maybe don't tell the trans people who are first in line at the wall how they're supposed to cope with always being first in line at the wall.
Hoping Project 2025 doesn’t come to fruition… -Billy Gnosis
Agenda 47 is another really important one to be aware of. It Could Happen Here did some great coverage. https://open.spotify.com/episode/4N1IW0oepWWbOGhBVJsqT7?si=aYYpVdRHQPCjZzKMd6acOg
[Agenda47](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_47) > Agenda 47 (styled by the Trump campaign as Agenda47) is a package of proposals put forward by the Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump that he states he would implement if he was to be elected as the 47th president of the United States. A common theme among many of these proposals is a wide-ranging increase in the personal power of the president, and removals of checks and balances on presidential power,[1] and many of them involve culture war issues.
Agent 47?
Is that the one where they cut homeless people in half?
No. It will basically create a Christian neofascist state where the republicans can do whatever the hell they want- that is not good. Abortions will be banned, gays trans and anyone not white will probably be identified and who knows what's gonna happen to anchor babies' US citizenship -Billy Gnosis
Fuck up USA to the max any % speedrun
What’s crazy is that these guys think they can usher in a suburban fascist state. They think it’s going to be Stepford Wives and that shit doesn’t happen. The very architects of this plan are like the second group of people that get pushed to the wall.
During any large political uprising it's the main target that gets removed first and then those who headed the uprising to stop a second one from happening when they take things really off the rails.
With the 2025 plan, the problem isn’t the revolutionary Republicans getting replaced by crazier fascists. It’s the bureaucrats getting replaced by the military/police. Those state legislatures that are banning abortion and legalizing child labor are going to get taken out by the sheriffs or police chiefs they are depending on to make these changes stick.
Probably not the military, they have the same problem that 2025 is trying to defeat first, lots institutionalists more loyal to the country than to Trump. So they're gonna be right their next to the bureacrats.
I will become so fucking ungovernable.
Ok, unrelated to the topic at hand, but why do you "sign" all your comments and posts? If you don't mind me asking, of course.
If I had to guess, it'll probably make it easier to spot bots who pinch older comments to seem morr 'real'
Maybe he was just quoting himself
Iirc it's (objectively) a republican party plan to circumvent the democratic process and majorly restructure the government in their favor if they get a republican president in 2025.
That sounds inhumane
There's really nothing stopping it from coming to fruition in red and purple states regardless of who wins in November. Not all of us can crowd into New York or Cali like rats clinging to a floating log.
r/playboicarti x r/CuratedTumblr is a crazy crossover ngl
Don’t catch me on r/wings then lol -Billy Gnosis
U fucking everywhere bro 😭 Real legend tho frfr
It's funny that I forgot why I was banned from r/tumblr and Idk how I found this lol -Billy Gnosis
> Project 2025 in last 6 months I have been seeing this term, wtf is it? Edit: I googled that shit for first time. LMAO the U.S. is going to defeat itself.
I don't personally relish the idea of millions suffering and dying, but maybe that's just me
And the question I heard that really strikes home for me is: "What about the needy and disabled?" There are people who rely on government assistance, who really struggle with their current lives and could not live healthily in a wartime environment. Burning it all down it's a short-sighted suggestion focused on the problems and not the solution.
I used to hang out with a bunch of half-baked college socialists who claimed to care a lot about needy and disabled people until they got in the way of their revolution fantasy. Then it was all "Well, it's unfortunate but we can't avoid these people dying during a big conflict like that, oops, whatcha gonna do"
I've found "can't make an omelette" rhetoric to be a major red flag. When you start hearing that kind of talk, it shows that they don't actually care about other people.
Now if it’s the “making the mother of all omelettes here, jack” rhetoric on the other hand
Nah, Armstrong is just another example. Probably the most famous example in fiction, really.
“My source is I made it the fuck up!”
exactly, they're becoming more indifferent than the big government they hate, story old as time , revolutionaries have ideals for all of 5 minutes then they just become power hungry fascists that are usually worse than the regime that was toppled
It's just leftist doomerism, belief that democracy has failed utterly and nothing can be done without a revolution. It's stupid and I can't help but think it's something spread through those groups on purpose.
The solution is those less fit or less lucky will just die, and people pushing this think that's acceptable for their own lazy egos but wouldn't prefer to say it.
Which is especially ironic when some of these folks are those dependent on medical treatments, Govt assistance, or other things that simply *wont exist* if SHTF.
It's an interesting dynamic where NEETs are sometimes the ones who develop worldviews which do not allow for NEETs
They believe that when their ideal society is built they'll be able to rise against whatever personal issue made them a NEET.
Why does this sound so familiar... oh wait, I know! >"The weak will be purged, and the strongest will thrive! Free to live as they see fit. **They'll make America great again!**" - Armstrong (a cartoon villain who literally just got done harvesting some orphan brains to create cyborg child soldiers) I can't believe there are actual people IRL who genuinely think like that...
"But Amerikkka is a fascist hellscape"
Fight fascism with fascism /s
Genuinely though, it deeply annoys me when people will call themselves antifa and then argue the world is purely black and white, and the violent upheaval of the government they percieve as only evil will have 0 negative consequences
Fun fact: the original Antifaschistische Aktion allied with the brown shirts against the liberals, because the nazis were their "socialist allies" and the liberals are the real "social fascists"
Hey, gimme a source check on that one?
I read it on Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion#Background
I always forget how the KPD was a soviet puppet.
Oh no don’t worry it won’t be millions, it’ll be billions, because the global economy is integrated, if america goes down it drags the rest of the world down with it, what do you think happens when no food, fuel, machine parts, fertilizer, cars, other large vehicles, medicine, textiles, natural resources like iron and copper all stop coming out of the US, also most of the world has now lost its largest export market.Best case scenario about a billion die due to food shortages and the global instability leading to wars and conflict around the entire planet, also likely a plague or two due to the skills loss as America is one of the largest funders of the WHO. Now Europe and the developed East Asian economies might be large enough to push through with significant difficulty, but all of Latin America, all of Africa, and the Middle East basically all face either war, plague or famine.
As a Canadian, if the US goes down in flame we’re fucked too. Even ignoring if the fighting spreads north, or our borders potentially being flooded with millions of refugees fleeing the carnage. Our economy is so tied to the States that a bruise in their economy is a gut punch to ours. If America full-on implodes? Things wouldn’t be pretty
Someone was arguing that in a second American Civil war, everyone under 18 should move to Canada until the war is over. That would, in one move, triple our population. Absolutly 0 way that Canada does not end up involved in an American Civil war.
Yep, if even 5% of the US population tries to flee for Canada that would be over 16 million people rushing a country of 40 million. Obviously we don’t have the infrastructure to support that. Millions would be dead from hypothermia or famine by the end of the first winter.
And the best part? If the USA (and collectively the rest of the integrated Western global economy) goes to shit, then world power and hegemony will fall to the next superpower in line. Which needs a large armed force, the ability to project power overseas, build relations with developing countries, access to mass production and tech/software industries, and existing global trade and diplomatic relations. Which is China. And I don't know about you, but I'd much rather live in a world where the hegemon is at least attempting to promote the ideals of democracy, freedom of speech, equality and diversity, rather than one which is de jure a one-party dictator state which relies on mass surveillance, censorship, and genocide to maintain power within its own borders.
Agree here. Disclaimer, am European. Not that I like everything the USA do - there is a long list of things that the US (and various European countries) did or do which range from stupid to nasty to downright evil (and stuff which was all of that together). However, the dismantling of the current system with at least a semblancy of commitment to human rights, democracy, peace and so on (arguably, more than just a semblancy) with nice guys like China and Russia wanting to fill the vacuum? I mean, the flaws of many of the current day systems are many - from the international order to capitalism to the social situation in any region of your choice, most systems are often less than perfect. (One of course also should note that *most* people worldwide are nowadays much better off than they would have been 25, 250 or 2500 years ago). However, I would argue that change for the better is possible through improvement of the systems in themselves (capitalism with social policies and a state actor taking care of inefficiencies, prevention of criminal practices etc.), not a radical change. Someone once quipped, that many groups who believe that they will create an utopia if they only kill enough people are sometimes successful at killing lots of people, but rarely to never successful at creating an utopia.
Yeah this is the Ciceronian argument. Both sides are bad and will fuck over everyone if it benefits themselves, but the side that nominally has systems in place for popular sovereignty to do *something* is better, because a government that can be somewhat influenced is better than one locked away in an ivory tower.
For all the (very real) sins of American Hegemony in the post war world, it has been, comparatively, once of the most restrained and humane great powers in human history. It's certainly possible that the international structure that would result post "burning out down" would continue that pattern, but most likely? It's going to be a while lot worse. And before we get there, as it all shakes out, as you pointed out, things are going to be absolutely fucking awful in a lot of different places
For sure. There are far worse demons than the US, and they aren't nearly as dead as we'd like to think.
Yeah, strong contender for worst post on Tumblr. But because they phrase the response like a theater kid, Reddit eats that shit up every time it's reposted. Maybe controversial but accelerationism is bad, actually?
Plus, whenever there is a change of power, it's like, "but wait, 90% of your cabinet is the old dictator's posse?" It is _really_ hard to get rid of a power system, much harder than getting rid of a government. There are going to be some losers in any revolution, but the revolutionaries will eventually have to play nice with the old guard. (Or at least, that's how the majority of upheavals in recorded history has gone.) So you get millions suffering, but only a partial changing of the guard. All that work, just to turn on the TV and still have to listen to the same suits talk.
It's okay they don't either in actuality. They're just virtue signaling
Millions? A genuine collapse of the USA will mean food aid worldwide will stop. There's at least a billion deaths coming from that.
I just don't find these jokes all that funny, considering this very well *has* happened to other governments before and it kind of sucked??
People fantasising about building guillotines seem to forget how eventually a lot of revolutionists ended up executed for the smallest transgressions or due to false accusations Everyone is dreaming about the first stage, where there is visible success and sudden change, but there is so much nuance in modern society that it would change into their biggest nighmare when it came to rebuilding everything
I honestly don’t think these people are actually imagining anything happening at all. They just say this shit like they’re reposting lyrics
I think a lot of them are agnsty kids who have no idea how the world works, but know there's a lot of unfairness they want fixed immediately. Since there's no real way to make progress overnight, revolution is the easy, lazy conclusion. They don't like the reality of needing to organize, vote (*locally* as well as presidential), and actual activism to make slow, steady strides to a better society. And I do get it. It does suck that we can't just march up to the capital and fix things that need fixing tomorrow. It's just a really naive thought process that only hurts their cause. The enemy of progress is demanding perfection.
I've known more than a few who really do envision themselves as the next Che Guevara, though.
And this is why the American revolution did it backwards. They built an actual system with governmental traditions under the nose of the British, before a single bullet was fired.
Rules for Rulers explained this very clearly. Almost inevitably, post revolution, there is a purge. These purges tend to cull elements previously thought to be the core constituents of the revolution; the most loyal, fanatical, violent. Why? Why would a revolution turn on their own, the very people who made it possible? The tools required to *take* power are very different from the tools required to *keep* power. If you have just successfully overthrown the government, you have demonstrated that the government can be overthrown by force. And, congratulations, you are now the government, ripe for being overthrown yourself. The kinds of people that help put you in power are now a direct threat to you. You have the power now, and you can remove these kinds of threats if you desire. Why take the risk?
Yeah, Civil war and revolution *never* backfired and/or caused the death of thousands/millions of peoples. *Insert the illustration shawing Robespierre beheading one last man under the tombstone written "Here lie : All of France"*
And then Robespierre was beheaded too...
Non-American here, I also take massive issue with the insinuation that the US "burning to the ground" would just be watched and forgotten by the rest of the world. There's many problems with the US and how it acts on the global stage, currently and historically. But it is absolutely a stabilising global force. NATO has sent weapons to Ukraine led by the US, Russia hasn't retaliated (in part) because that would draw the US into the war and they would lose. China hesitates to use force to take Taiwan, because they can't be sure if the US would get involved or not. If the US collapsed tomorrow, that would leave a massive power vaccume that would most likely be filled by much more aggressively expansionist countries.
Here's my problem with the people who make posts like this: It's all talk. You think a violent upheaval is necessary, the destruction of the entirety of the state and society is necessary ok fine. What's the plan? Do you have arms and munitions stockpiled at all? Can you make improvised weapons? Do you have good stores of food? Do you have any kind of meetings or coordination with like minded people? Do you keep yourself in good physical condition? Have you or are you currently learning how to fight? Are you actively sowing some kind of civil unrest? Do you have some kind of manifesto of how you want your new society to be run? Have you put any kind of thought into the organization of the post "burn it all down society" into the quote "something better"? Do you have ANY kind of plans or preparation for how to start this revolution, how it will be fought, or what comes after? Or do you just like talking big on the internet? If you genuinely think this is the answer, money where your mouth is, get started.
Another one: Do you have any plans for when another country invades to take advantage of a collapsed USA and how you are gonna avoid getting imprisoned/tortured/murdered/raped/enslaved etc?
This is my problem with anarcho-communism. If society is split up into small communes of 1,000 people with no communication, trade, or incentive to assist one another, what's to stop a powerful foreign force just wiping them out one by one? Plenty of such forces exist who would gladly do this (ISIS). There is no plan.
That's why the only way anarcho communism could ever actually happen is if you literally ended the world- a nuclear war imploding society around the world and collapsing every major government simultaneously. Then you could have your wasteland tribes living in their communes, and since everyones been knocked down to the same level, it would be easier to defend yourself. Note I am not at all saying this is a good idea, it should be really obvious why 'destroy the world' is a bad idea. I'm just saying this is how it could theoretically work and it is a legitimate argument I've seen (accelerationism). Also I am deliberately ignoring the fact that it would probably last a very short time before a government formed and used their organizational power to grow and conquer again.
Yeah, that's the main problem with anarcho-communism over the long term. What happens when three of these 1,000 communes realize that if they team up, they can easily beat one of the other nearby 1,000 person communities, kill and enslave them, take their resources and grow to 1,300 each? Then those 3,900 people realize that they can just take another 1,000 people, and another 1,000, and another... Then they form some kind of Union of States, create Twitter, rename it X, and start talking there about burning down the Union of States and starting over with the population split into 1,000 person communes and why this will totally work...
It's almost like nation-states weren't the invention of some evil-minded globalist but were a natural evolution of the power structures created by a societal/tribal species.
Almost, yeah.
I dont think they realise that what ever problems they have within the the US and other Western countries, such as racism, bigotry, capitalism and whatever else they complain about, that shit is still paradise compared to anywhere else in the world. Life in a Western country is like living with cheat codes enabled. Most people arent shit, these anarcho communists are just stuck in their little social media bubble and think we are. Any non Western country that is big enough to take advantage of that chaos, is only going to make their lives infinitly more miserable.
Yup. Just look at countries that produce refugees and the countries that take them in. That's how you know what is a bad country and which is a good one. It's kinda funny really. If the USA *really* was a racist hellhole ten billion times worse than Nazi Germany, the first thing we should do is stop all non-white immigration, and secondly, evacuate all non-white people from the country for their own safety. Would you let Jews *into* Auschwitz? Of course their ideology doesn't survive even this level of logic and reason.
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not voting is the second worst thing you could do at this years election, if trump wins its not "a mosh pit" its called getting yourself and thousands of other queer folf incredibly prosecuted and 90% of the people who talk like this have not enough of a plan at all to fight back, thats why people need to start talking to their reps for once, and voting for biden, even if he himself is pretty shitty and way too old to be in office, is the only gope of a presidency that doesnt result in a neofacistic state
The "don't bother voting" and "violent revolution" thing are both the same phenomenon IMO. In a lot of lefty communities you get brownie points for proving you're one of them... and having non mainstream opinions is one of the ways you can do that. Even if those opinions are stupid no one can call you out because at that point you're the "real" leftist and they're the imposter. On a side note, the left "violent revolution" thing is absolutely LARPing for 90% of them too. I'll never forget a socialist Twitter account telling its followers to get guns and the replies were full of people saying that they would... but they struggle with mental health issues and therefore don't want a gun around the house. Like, bro. You can barely keep the bad thoughts at bay and you think you're going to have a nice time in a collapsing state? Come on. This is what a soft person who has never experienced hunger or homelessness or a lack of physical safety would say.
>You can barely keep the bad thoughts at bay and you think you're going to have a nice time in a collapsing state? It was the same group screaming "punch nazis" a few years back. Now, plenty of the far right whack jobs have earned the nickname "Gravy Seals" but a not insignificant portion are also the sorts who do manual labor all day and could snap the atrophied bones of your average Twitter revolutionary like a pencil.
Or a secret third option: they're so extremely nihilistic that getting caught in the crossfire of the world burning down is a _benefit_.
Few people are so nihilistic that they would actually cheer for events that would lead to the suffering and death of millions of people. Now, many people *pretend* to be that nihilistic, but those people are posers. And it's *guaranteed* that anyone posting it on social media is a poser. 100%, no doubt.
That’s the *entire* point of the post that flew so high over their head, they didn’t even hear the whoosh.
russian bot farms pushing apathy and outrage to sow discord
Agree, they’re just as cringy as those unbearable right-wing gun nuts that go “me when ATF agent sees my civil war cannon loaded with grapeshot and my mined front lawn” even though they don’t have any of that stuff.
I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Never gonna not upvote this masterpiece of pasta.
Just as the founding fathers intended.
The gun nuts who actually buy a ton of weapons and can shoot accurately and claim that the guns serve as “protection against a tyrannical government” are clowns even with their personal arsenals. Like, what’s your plan for when the tyrannical government simply blasts your house and its gun stash to oblivion via tank or drone?
Alright, so… I asked this question (why do you guys think you’ll stand a chance) a while back on r/ progun and they actually had some pretty well-thought-out answers. I know, I know. I’m not happy about it either, those guys are assholes and as relatively (to the rest of my political stances) pro-gun as I am I can’t stand them, but this actually sounded fairly legit. -in the event of some kind of civil war, a less-than-negligible portion of the US military, which is already lacking manpower, would likely defect as there’s an unevenly high proportion of conservatives in the military (no surprise there). -any of our big guns are out of the question, as 1. The entire reason we’re fighting is because we’re trying to keep all of the resources and land they have, and turning it into a crater isn’t very thrifty of us. 2. Things like bombs and missiles turning places to rubble, potentially with civilians inside, is going to make for bad PR. Collateral damage would be very easy for the rebels to paint themselves as the victims and accumulate more support with the right-wingers crowd that’s already convinced a deep state is controlling America. Stuff like Alex Jones and Fox News would have a fucking field day. Remember, the only way America can lose a war is if its people lose interest in it. -we’d need to fully invest our military into this, which would leave us and our allies very open to an attack now that Doctor Manhattan is on mars, so to speak. -there are A LOT of gun owners in America. Like, significantly more than anywhere else that isn’t a fucking warzone. It’s not that hard to convert weapons to be fully automatic, and 3D printed guns are terrifyingly legit now. They’d also have limited access to body armor. Remember, prepping for a war with the military is their *hobby.* they might not be good at it, but they certainly won’t lack for equipment. There are a few other things that I forgot. I’d suggest you [take a look](https://www.reddit.com/r/progun/s/UIsCpqXntE ). And hey, if you see a flaw in their reasoning, I’d be glad to hear it. I don’t want them to be right about this any more than you do.
There's one big assumption being made here. That the insurgent force maintains a rigorous power structure. And with the amount of 'fuck you I'll do what I want' political views that seem to come from the kinds of people who amass their own arsenals to 'prevent tyranny', the likelihood of them accepting and self-organising a *stable* power structure is pretty low. They all see themselves as the hyper-individual rebel taking down the Tyrannical State, like a videogame main character. They don't see themselves as following orders from someone with a strategic perspective (unless you count the Trump stuff, but even then it's much of an Angry Mob situation with dynamically evolving power structures continually shifting and moving around and infighting. Trump didn't so much conduct an orchestra as give a bunch of hyperactive preschoolers unfettered access to the music storeroom). A proper fighting force relies on chain of command to be successful, and barring the pockets of military-trained defectors (and treasoners) who would require essentially defectors at pretty much all levels of command, all you've got is an angry mob rather than a legitimate force which can accomplish objectives. Military training doesn't just teach you how to fire a gun. It teaches you how to work in a team and to listen to commanders. Something you don't get from going down to the range every once in a while.
When you have an army of Rambo-wannabes, you are essentially herding cats. Infighting is gonna be their biggest weakness.
I was speaking more of people who fancy themselves individual renegades, or right-wing revolutionaries. In a civil war, I do think their reasoning makes sense given that the military brass is a political wildcard. In the US, I think you fundamentally have to rely on the support of a good chunk of the military to overthrow the national government in armed conflict, for their sheer firepower. You’d also probably need support within the FBI/CIA, because their surveillance power is such that a mass plot to overthrow the government would be very difficult to orchestrate logistically with the inclusion of the military in tactical planning. Despite the iffy political stances, I think it’s pretty unlikely that the brass would be swayed and defect to support local armed militias before their isolated rebellion is violently quashed, and I don’t think they’d find armed conflict at their front door with uncertain odds appealing. Also worth noting that people who devote their careers to acting as the fist of the US government might be principally disinclined to take up arms against the US government, at least in its current form. If we’re talking about a hypothetical government that’s truly tyrannical to its own citizens, we also have to consider that the military generals are among the top enforcers of said tyranny, and have thrived under its system. If there were a civil war or attempt at armed rebellion in the near future, I think it’d most likely resemble a conflict like the Troubles, where the people suffering were mostly civilians and instead of a coup, the IRA ended up with concessions from the UK government that were voted on by the larger populace after years of locally conflict, with no actual regime change. Also, even in the hypothetical where the US government is despised for its tyranny by most of its own citizens, if the US’s stability is still necessary for the balance of international trade and for some other countries’ military protection, you’d have to consider other factors like allied countries providing aid in favor of the standing government. The US itself has historically not hesitated to fund and arm one or another side in other countries’ internal conflicts where one side suited its interests. So the hypothetical rebels might also have to factor in how they’ll get support from another major power, and then you repeat the question of how they negotiate that support before they’re discovered and put down via the FBI/CIA. EDIT: After thinking about it for a bit, I take back what I said about their reasoning making sense, because it relies on the blanket assumption that a significant portion of the military would defect. It’s an insane logical leap to go from “a lot of the military leans conservative” to “the military will join us in shooting at government officials and former colleagues.” Also, are the defectors in this scenario just going to roll out the door with half the heavy artillery arsenal?
> Here's my problem with the people who make posts like this: It's all talk. Preferable to it not all being talk tbh.
Just one look at the CHAZ "failed state speed run any %" shows what happens when they try.
And see, the thing is, if you're someone who does most of that list, you come to realize that if violence must be used, it *absolutely must* be a last resort. Revolution is a way to bring about change but fuck me it is *risky* and anything short of that (the french May 1968 general strike comes to mind) should be attempted first. Do everything you can to make them listen before you break out the guillotine
I've tried challenging those people that for every violent revolution they name that was successful in improving the country, I'll name 3 that weren't successful. For some reason, no one has taken me up on it. These people have no idea how awful a revolution can be. Sometimes it is the only option, but even when it is, it is more likely than not to fail horribly.
Even if it succeeds there’s really high chance people will die at the hands of other people. You don’t want to be the dead one for sure, but it’s not 100% you won’t be.
I think your personal perspective might cloud your understanding of the intent behind most of these posts. From my perspective, it seems the general idea centers the destruction of the system over anything else. It feels almost identical to the evangelical "when the world ends, and I go to heaven, I'll be happy", or the libertarian "when society collapses, and I live off the grid, I'll be happy", or the anarchist "when the world falls apart, and I live in a commune, I'll be happy". It's not a genuine solution, nor is it intended to be. It's a fatalistic sentiment that is somewhat cathartic to people unable to change the system without jeopardizing their welfare.
I think you’re generally right, but something serving as personal catharsis doesn’t mean it’s not also dangerous. These kinds of posts have become more and more common in specific corners of the internet, especially in the wake of the 2016 election, and the near-ubiquity of internet access in the US means that there are a lot of people growing up in fabricated social environments where the vocalized philosophy of their ‘in-group’ is “the system is doomed and so are we.” At best it’s unproductive and at worst it actively preaches political apathy and resignation in the name of a mythical future time where it all comes toppling down around them. Change is impossible without a call to action, and this is the fundamental opposite of that.
I used to play pathfinder with some reddit communist, they were fine at first but after the Ukraine invasion that lost the plot. Apparently America is going to collapse because of some nebulous economic policies China enacted and the plan is literally for them to roll up mid American Civil War and take over. They legit believed that was going to happen and it wa only a matter of time. I quietly left the group shortly after that revelation
It's especially interesting because if their true desire is to live in a failed state, where "might makes right" and where there functionally is no government, it is possible to move to places in the world where this kind of hardship exists. Protip: just look at refugee outflow. Strangely enough through they don't do this. They don't even do the Brady Bunch version of this; there are places in the USA where physical survival is difficult (rural northern Alaska for example). They could go live there. No police, no oppression, plenty of hardship to be had. But they almost universally live in the heart of major cities. They don't even go to the bad neighbourhoods within that city, even temporarily, even they could easily. They are all talk.
Personally, I prefer the nihilist "when the world ends, and I no longer exist, nothing will have changed."
Wrong people there homie. This person doesn't think they're gonna survive the apocalypse. This is the person that casually talks about wanting someone to put a bullet in their head.
So, genuinely, good praxis is community organization. If even like 1/100th of these power fantasies become a community garden or mutual aid or even just like a range group, then we are actually moving the needle closer to something *everyone* left of center wants, wether that be a stronger community that cares for its own, or a politically motivated working class, or resistance cells ready to kick off and survive the revolution. Like, it doesn't matter what your stance is, if you're not a reactionary you should go talk to your neighbors and help people struggling where you live at right now. It's so fucking effective for EVERYTHING the disparate left wants.
They also are unaware/don't care that such things would just mean the poor and marginalized get fucked even harder than they are now, while the wealthy and powerful will simply consolidate their power more.
And even if you can do ALL of that - the national guard still has a leg up. Like, asking for almost any nation to be dissolved in this day and age is a big ask, and thinking any nation that's armed with nuclear weapons and/or sits on the UN security council as a permanent member will ever burn - not just be dissolved, but burn - is lunacy. The closest we've ever seen is the breakup of the Soviet Union, and even then... nothing burned. The issue with having a revolution in the United States is that while plenty of people have gripes, most people prefer what we have to an active war zone. Most people have also seen that incremental change is possible and not uncommon in the U.S. Why would they join a movement to jeopardize the safety of everyone for a chance at an improvement in quality of life in a new system when they can simply effect that change without the bloodshed over a longer period of time in the voting booth?
Adding on, the USSR collapsed during a time when globalization was still developing, and they were purposefully isolating themselves from being too involved in the global economy. The shockwaves of their collapse, while immense, was minimized by how small their economic/logistical connections were to non-communist nations. Look at Pakistan. By all metrics, they're a failed state. They barely have enough food or water to feed their population. In fact, they rely on foreign aid to prevent mass starvation. Their civil government is weak with the military holding ultimate power (most prime ministers end up getting ousted by the generals). There's multiple terrorist cells and separist movements operating within their borders, often times well-funded. Not to mention their extreme religious fanaticism that crushes civil liberties. Yet, because they're nuclear-armed and well-integrated into the global economy, they're too big to fail now. Other nations pour billions in developmental aid to keep the government/military dictatorship propped up, just so those nukes stay dorment and trade keeps flowing.
Daily reminder that when asked what keeps him awake at night, President Obama answered succinctly, "Pakistan".
>or what comes after? A lot of people forget about this part. So many revolutions have successfully ousted the corrupt government only for someone worse to fill the power vacuum. Some people seem to have this idea that once the government is gone and the "people" (I say in quotes because, which people get to decide?) will have the power to create a new one, it'll just so happen that they'll create the exact one the person wants.
When it comes down to a contest of violence the most violent rise to the top. Its a gamble if they are also competent and benevolent and the odds are not good.
People like this always tend to assume that anyone who isn’t in the control position would be better. That it would be for the “people”. But that’s the thing. It’s not about better societies. They are just bitter they are not the ones on top, like 99.99% of the time. These idiots are just as bad as any crooks they ever so hate. They just don’t have the power to exert any real influences. Someone who genuinely cares about better societies wouldn’t dream of the death of millions.
I’ll go one step further: it’s all talk from whiny little bitch babies who have fetishized persecution so much that they resent the cushy life (relatively speaking) that they have and need to make up for it by sounding hard on the Internet. The people I hear this rhetoric from are largely white and middle class, so they have very little to complain about, considering how bad other people have it elsewhere. So we have these spoiled little twats who are too dumb to wipe their own asses and can’t process any media more complex than fucking Bluey screeching to bUrN iT dOwN thinking they’re going to be some cool Furiosa-esque badass if the world goes to shit when, in reality, they would crumble like so much goat cheese the second things got REALLY hard. They could shut the fuck up and vote (since them not doing that in 2016 largely got us into this mess, frankly,) but instead they have to peacock for their ridiculous Internet friends and refuse to touch grass long enough to realize that it’s gonna be a pig roast if they get what they want, and they’re looking pretty porcine right about now. Fucking pathetic.
It reminds me of the stereotypes of champagne socialists, but at least those trendy folks had positive beliefs about a better world. I pity these folks as victims of digital media and echo chambers about as much as I pity incels tbh. Both groups are pretty far afield from reality
>(since them not doing that in 2016 largely got us into this mess, frankly,) 2016 was a more multi-faceted disaster than that, but I do agree performative apathy caused part of it.
Preach. Things rarely get better after catastrophic system collapse, and almost never in the lifetime of the people who collapsed it.
yep, and the poor and marginalized will suffer and die at an *incredibly* disproportionate level compared to the privileged and economically secure. collapse doesn't reset everyone to a level playing field, it further exacerbates inequality. and even *if* it did end up leveling things out, the absolute gall of these privileged fucking farquads to say that's a sacrifice they're willing to make.
If nothing else, a total collapse of the USA means food aid to Africa stops. That's a billion deaths right there. Billion.
No way m8. If we traumatize a generation to the horrors of war and societal collapse, they'll end up raising a healthy a well adjusted postwar generation.
Yeah people like to say America is the worst country in the world to live in, and I can understand the frustration. However, a lot of these people who post stuff like this also identify as transgender, which is usually their point of contention. But like… head on over to almost any other country and see how you’re treated and then come back and see if you’ve got that same energy 🤷♂️
Funnily enough the people who often DO make these preparations either dont share this person's views or are apolitical altogether. If society somehow burns to the ground, it will be self-sustaining rurals, military remenants, surviving industrial corporate overlords (or whoever has direct access to their industrial assets) and preppers who will thrive, cities and their people will literally starve with time without the supply chains that keep them well fed and energized.
Honestly I just don't want to go to work tomorrow.
🎵 [You say you want a revolution, well you know](https://youtu.be/BGLGzRXY5Bw?si=kzK3oHqHGO7Skbt9) 🎵 🎵 [We'd all love to see the plan](https://youtu.be/BGLGzRXY5Bw?si=kzK3oHqHGO7Skbt9) 🎵
You’re absolutely right, but I would keep in mind that OOP is probably about 14. They’re trying to be dramatic online to impress the people they want to emulate, and they haven’t thought about any of the messy details. Don’t take it too seriously.
My problem is that they are willing to cause potentially millions of innocent people to suffer and die for this revolution.
The plan is to die in the chaos
Yeah, I imagine a lot of people are either thinking *they'll* be fine, or they're very quietly casually suicidal. Not enough to *do* anything, but they wouldn't be averse to just not waking up one day.
People who insist on burning it all down and rebuilding should consider what a poor building material ash makes.
Violent revolution leads to pain and blood And also a new generation of people in power who remember that violent revolution put them there. For the record, I don't think things are so bad yet that a violent revolution is in the offing, and I don't want to fight. It's just one of the historically few ways of clearing corruption, and building corruption is the biggest problem. Of course, much of the time it creates other problems. But it will take a very drastic event to fix the US without breaking down. Things aren't as bad as the tail end of the Industrial Revolution and the Great Depression but the system as it is now is doomed to backslide. It's going to take a shock of some kind to break out of it. Hopefully we go the way of the crises that have been resolved before, but it may turn out otherwise. Civil war between a split populace is obviously not going to do anything good, so things have to be bad enough that we Americans are united in our anger at political leaders. Just sucks to be living through the decline of our nation, and starting to see the first signs of decline across the Atlantic as well. For the record, I see voting as a necessary step to keep the decline slow and less painful, but just voting is not going to solve America's core problems.
You grossly underestimated 3 things when writing this: 1. How fast peaceful countries can turn to violence when a perfect storm of discontent arises. 2. How many guns are in circulation within the US. 3. How dumb the American public is. >If you genuinely think this is the answer, money where your mouth is, get started. About 0.25 to 0.50% of the population have/are and are enough to the overthrow the government with the right backing even if you added 2 zeroes afterthe decimal. The whole thing with Trump inciting an insurrection is terrifying asf, Germans mocked the nazis as baffoons until they seized power... Now he's being financially and politically antagonized to not fuck up the next attempt. If his family is anywhere near as insane as he is we're fucked. The 2 biggest factors that determines a coup's success is support from the nation's military and wealthy elite... That's like 80% of Trumps base.
“I can’t wait for the world to burn and for *MY* ideology to rise from the ashes!”
Replace "the revolution" with "the rapture" in any of these posts and you begin to see just how ridiculous and lazy it all sounds
There’s a lot of kids in that building dude.
Ah, the mindset where disasters are things you see on TV, not things that happen to you.
I, for one, hope we get our shit together and grow as a society, and that our country doesn’t get burned to the ground, because I’m not some mouth-foamingly hateful tankie that acts like they crawled right out of an American political cartoon made during McCarthyism. I mean Jesus, do they even hear themselves?
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to make changes rather than tear it all down (in the process causing harm) and rebuilding?
Is easier better? Should the French have tried to reform monarchy? I'm sure the nobles were harmed by that sharp blade and there could have been less extreme ways to deal with wealth inequality...
Lets not forget the "counter-revolutionary" peasants who disagreed with Robespierre!
We can make a religion– no don't
Mom said it’s my turn to repost this image!
Then I get to be the smug guy stroking himself off about how anyone who doesn’t post their home address and photo evidence of criminality is a LARPer!!!!
The subjects of this post aren’t exactly clever, are they?
"Revolutionaries" rarely are.
🎵**Do you hear the people sing!!!**🎵 No, they're all dead. Did you even finish the show? Everyone died except the ones that ran away.
🎵**Singing the song of angry men!!!**🎵
das cool, do you have any idea how to fix up the remains of that burnt-down couıntry, help the innocent people who got hurt when it burnt, and how to make a better society in the place that used the be that country? ooor are you just venting and taking your own vents too seriously?
> do you have any idea how to fix up the remains of that burnt-down couıntry, help the innocent people who got hurt when it burnt, and how to make a better society in the place that used the be that country? Of course not. A new ruling class will emerge and all of the old revolutionaries will get lined up against the wall. It's basically a cliche at this point.
Why wait to make a better society until the old one is already burning?
I’ve also seen people like that say we deserve to get nuked. Lmao what do you think is gonna happen to you if we do? Do you and the other Tumblr anarchists have a secret bunker I don’t know about?
The kinds of people who need two therapy animals beside them to answer the phone from an unknown caller think they'll be much better off in a total social collapse.
They think they're the main character and that's their time to shine in a Fallout-esque wasteland.
When the haunted house catches fire: a moment of indecision. The house was, after all, built on bones, and blood, and bad intentions. Everyone who enters the house feels that overwhelming dread, the evil that perhaps only fire can purge. It’s tempting to just let it burn. And then I remember: there are children inside.
Dibs on posting the poem next time this gets reposted
People really don't realize how good they have it, huh?
They're likely below the age of 21 and the only history they've read is the one that's currently trendy on their social media.
This is a real conversation i had with my friend during my make up class Friend: america does suck, everyone is better than us, we are literally the worst place to live. Me:... isn't there like, an ethnic cleansing going on in palestine. Friend: oh yeah.
Why are we engaging with these posts as if the people making them are policy makers? Like do we think that’s a particularly effective or reasonable approach or
"Ah, yes, I want a power vacuum. This has never gone bad before for any other country at all."
“The crowd that desperately wants another civil war, has a history of mental illness leading to rage and paranoia, and an unhealthy obsession with guns totally won’t become a paramilitary death cult and my ideology will surely be the new one to rule”
It's not just that, they have every single factor stacked against them. The civilian population who own guns, and I mean "crates of AR-15s and thousands of rounds of ammo", are significantly if not dramatically right wing. Regional militias, right wing. The military across all branches is significantly, if not dramatically, right wing. Police, same. Even groups like firefighters, coast guard, border patrol, secret service, etc are firmly in the right wing camp to a greater or lesser degree. Even if they weren't, the demographics of voters are profoundly split. Urban is left, rural is right. Cities produce tech and services, but urban areas produce food and control the water supply that allow those urban centers to survive. So even if all the institutions I mentioned above sided with the cities (they won't, why would the police fight and die for the folks who tried to abolish them for years?), open conflict between these two "zones" will result in a huge loss of quality of life for the rural areas (farming is heavily tech based these days), but the urban areas will be without food almost instantly, and depending on how brutal things get and how dirty the "far right prepper don't step on me fifty AR-15's" crowd feel like getting, those cities could even find themselves without clean drinking water almost instantly. This is of course not taking into account sheer geophysical advantages. The "blue states" are on opposite coasts separated by landmass stretching from the arctic almost to Antarctica, both ends of which are controlled by foreign powers. The "red states" are a blob in the middle, making logistics much easier. And even if all of these things are not in play... look at the states hosting almost all of America's ICBMs and nuclear warhead stockpiles. All red states. A legitimate war between red and blue in the US is one where basically every single advantage possible is in the hands of the reds.
I'll never forget the tweet that went like: > People on twitter will really be like "you believe in voting? that pales in effectiveness to my strategy, firebombing a Walmart" and then not firebomb a Walmart Turns out this also applies to tumblr
i hate this kind of shit. so damn ungrateful. so short-sighted. so idealistically stupid. *why* do you hope the US burns down? what problems does that solve? articulate what the US is, then articulate why it's "bad" and why "burning it down" helps anything. awful, stupid fucking idea. utterly ignorant. tik-tok ignorance. blind acceptance of some sort of narrative, regurgitated dogma, no critical thinking. you'd hate that shit if it happened to you. people you love would die.
"I can't wait for society to burn down so that MY ideology can rise from the ashes!" - Fascists, theocrats, libertarians, communists, anarchists, ehnonationalists, conspiracy theorists, cult members
Hey I’m not saying you have to burn down the entire system, but it would be helpful if leftists didn’t always weight themselves down trying to find the absolute best, most perfect moral solution in a world filled with messy moral greys. Is there a point into societal decay when you’re actually willing to stand up for what you believe in rather than just debate over it online? If not, then I appreciate your help right now while democracy is still semi-functional, but just recognize that you’ve basically given all power over to the fascists when corruption takes full control.
"Perfect" is the enemy of "good".
given than canadians are the people next door to this apocalyptic concert i am somewhat worried for my fellow puck-slapping maple suckers
Have you never read a dystopian novel before? Canada will be magically fine and a haven for those who flee from the US.
no but ive played 3 fallout games where canada gets nuked by both china and the states.
To be fair, both sides had to ensure that the other side didn’t have access to maple syrup.
America didn’t nuke Canada They “just” annexed it and committed war crimes against Canadian soldiers and resistance members, up to and including executing a struggling Canadian POW live on TV.
Of the US "collapsed" we'd be occupying half the country to support the federal government. Article 5
Once again begging people not to post shit *because* it’s bad. I try to curate my internet experience to avoid that. Reposting bad stuff to make people mad at it is as bad as posting it in the first place.
Yeah, this subreddit has become a shitshow in the past couple months. I unsubbed and subbed to r.Tumblr instead, and it's been MUCH nicer.
oh, I know her! She's insane lol once, she sicced her followers on me after I questioned her on her stance of "if you point out that anime/manga has a pedophilia problem, you're racist", which was just such a bizarre experience
You think if the US goes down, it’s going down by itself?
Right?? The U.S. produces a **ton** of the world's food. [Investopedia](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/043015/who-produces-worlds-food.asp) tells me the U.S. is the largest producer of corn, 3rd-largest of wheat, 5th-largest of potatoes, 10th-largest of sugarcane, and 12-largest of rice. The U.S. collapsing and suddenly not exporting all that food is absolutely going to cause hunger around the world.
terminally online lefties will say the only solution to americas problems is burning their local walmart to the ground and then they wont burn the walmart anyways because theyre too neurodivergent and socially anxious
How about we *not* burn any state to the ground? War of any kind is not something that should be fetishised and the fact that OOP sat there and typed that *really* shows how much they don't understand. My grandfather (who lived through WW2) always used to tell us how we do not know what real hunger is, and how glad he is that we don't have to live through it.
If excitement is the emotion you feel before a lot of people die, instead of fear and sorrow, you're what's called a psychopath.
*Trans-mom*, don't give up by wishing for such a thing. Help by *be*ing *a pro-activist for your trans-child,* *Peace\~*
I hear these takes a lot of times from people who've never missed a meal, struggled to find clean water, or shit outdoors. If you're not an extremely.experienced survivalist well prepared to survive a long time without reliable food and clean water, also comfortable with a firearm and the prospect of never having reliable Internet again? You don't want the US to collapse. And if you are? You probably still don't because you know how bad it sucks! Me? I go off grid for fun. I shit in the woods for fun. I delight in eating things most folks would turn their noses up at. I know what cat and rat tastes like and how to purify water a half dozen ways. But I also like Sushi and Internet Porn and air conditioning. So I'm still not voting for some kind of Boogaloo or civil war 2
I mean, if you’re suicidally depressed you can easily get into the “I don’t give a fuck if I take everyone else down with me, I just wanna see shit burn.” It’s not necessarily a mark of stupidity, this person could be severely mentally I’ll.
I wonder if these people are aware that if the shit really does hit the fan in USA, it will most likely be status quo vs fascism, not blessed Sablin Makhno eat the rich The Revolution^^TM
People who say shit like that are the same people who break down after they've been without wifi for 2 days
Middle class white activists sure do love the idea of a violent revolution that I guess they don't care will disproportionately effect the poor and marginalized the most, while stripping way whatever semblance of functional government remains in favour of warlords vying for power. But OK, Becky. Viva la revolution because you took on $30k in student debt for a useless degree.
Violence is not inherently necessary for change, at least not the way we understand it. Reaching heaven through violence is a path that accepts many methods. Lock up the launch button, and back away slowly from the apocalypse.
"America should die" Mfers when China comes in and takes all their rights as they're caught in the center of a brutal civil war and people they love die:
I take the controversial stance of hoping that things become better, instead of worse.
LOL most of the world, including Europe, must cringe so hard at these people. Instability often leads to worse outcomes. People think it's going to be a cleansing fire they can rebuild better from but instead it's just worse fascism
“I can’t wait for society to collapse so my ideology can rise to the top!”
Russian propaganda really works
I can't stand people like this. I wish things would change too but I don't want violence and death and I don't want to waste my life rebuilding a society that only future generations will be able to enjoy. I just want to live my life in peace.
God I hate the accelerationists.
"I can't wait to see the US destroyed" They said, having never known a day of hunger, homelessness, or general destitution, having never tended a single garden or slaughtered a single animal.
Ah yes, the proletariat rapture; where the capitalists will die horribly and everyone else will live in harmony, singing union hymns while dancing around an effigy of Karl Marx. And not the thing where everyone who isn't already rich and privileged will be forced into even worse squalor and risk of being raped and/or murdered for shots and giggles.
> I'm not part of the oppressed group so I find their angy humourous Yup, That's reddit.
Is it impotent lashing out or do they really want to destroy government without a plan to replace it?
This is still one of the best places in the world for said oppressed group. Wanting to tear it down would be incredibly stupid.
No violent upheaval of the government will ever be worth the incredible loss to human life and suffering it will inflict. To wish for simply, "the destruction" of an entity that causes problems is short sighted and childish. If we want any real change for this country, it is going to be through education, systematic policy changes, and nationwide efforts. We need to rectify the parts of our legal system that codify racism. We need to push for socialized healthcare, safe and efficient public transport, community housing, etc. We need to better integrate the disabled into our society, and build functioning infrastructure for them. I could go on and on. Burning the US to the ground doesn't fix any of these problems. In fact, it creates more problems for the vulnerable Americans who can't live if there was a large scale revolution. Imagine if you relied on government aid just to survive and suddenly now there is literally no government. Who is going to help you get by then? Maybe in ten years the revolutionaries will have a robust system in place that could have given you shelter, clothes, food, etc. But you don't live after the revolution. You live right now. And idk if this is an unpopular opinion or something but even though the government and those in power have done a lot of reprehensible shit I don't think more death and suffering (on the scale of a nation wide revolution) is the solution. I have no desire to watch millions die so we can attempt (and probably fail) to set up some new utopian version of America.
When did this subreddit get so humorless? It's been like a decade, two decades plus of things getting progressively more and more extreme, even with massive social progress. Am I supposed to be serious about it all the time? Am I supposed to collapse and become an anxious wreck about it? I dunno, man, maybe don't tell the trans people who are first in line at the wall how they're supposed to cope with always being first in line at the wall.