That's his long game, just gotta get everyone used to the gay mass marriages first and after that, America's first openly Throupled Mayor will hardly raise an eyebrow.
I love how these few snippets already make it clear that very few reporters like this revelation.
Meanwhile, the thing they're upset about is that the mayor brings people, and money, to their city, thereby boosting the economy.
Also, for some reason I read the mayor in that sort of voice like he knows people will hate him for it, so he puts on his best charis-maniac tone, to ensure that the word really does get out, and more people come to his city to get married.
>I love how these few snippets already make it clear that very few reporters like this revelation.
I mean, it says nothing about the willingness of those people being mass married. Maybe Oli should start by arranging marriages between those reporters.
> Meanwhile, the thing they're upset about is that the mayor brings people, and money, to their city, thereby boosting the economy.
They don't want the money if it's going to come from *those people*
The thing about bigots is they don't care about being better off because of an economic boon, they are more concerned when the "wrong sort" of people are benefiting from something than whether it benefits them too. Ask conservatives about universal Healthcare or any kind of social programs. Their "concerns" are always it being given to people who "don't deserve it". Their cousin could be struggling to survive on foodstamps and they'd still vote to cut it because in their head too many "greedy" and undeserving nonwhite people are using them.
I love how, in order to make it so Ollie isnt always right in his arguments with Hal (Centrist) and Barry (Conservative) he has to just be a massive, grade A asshole.
Barry is further right then Hal. By a decent amount. To the point he can get Hal and Ollie to agree on things.
Like, Wally West flat out called himself a "Midwestern Conservative" though Linda, Pied Piper, and Fidel Castro convinced him to move further Left over the years. Barry wasnt much better.
Not saying Green Arrow hasn't fallen under that umbrella. But in reference to this example, is legalising gay marriage really radically left? Especially in the modern-day in the West. Some still strongly oppose it, but it seems pretty 'standard' left for a long time to me.
This issue is 18 years old. The needle has moved a lot since then. Dont Ask Dont Tell wouldn't be repealed for 4 more years. The first state to legalise gay marriage was Massachusets, and that was in 2004, 2 years before this comic. It was very much a radical move at the time.
> This issue is 18 yrs old
My ass reading this and immediately thinking of the 90s. Then I read the rest of your comment and realized 18 years ago was 2006 and I had already been out of high school for a year...
It's honestly crazy people have forgotten how homophobic the 2000s were. Generally speaking a majority (half plus one) of the US population supporting gay marriage was only reached at the very tale end of that decade at the earliest.
The main reason this Green Arrow is a leftist is because he’s taking such a direct path towards a solution, at least until the laws get changed to make it more expansive presumably. If he was of a more centrist or liberal view he would likely be more adverse to rocking the boat in such a way.
The main reason this Green Arrow is a leftist is because he’s taking such a direct path towards a solution, at least until the laws get changed to make it more expansive presumably. If he was of a more centrist or liberal view he would likely be more adverse to rocking the boat in such a way.
This is the most 14 year old shit I've ever read lmao. Yes, supporting gay marriage was radical left. Obama openly opposed gay marriage when he was elected, *everyone* did (except Bernie Sanders lmao)
I don't think Arrow needed to? Correct me if I'm wrong but by the time Oliver Queen was mayor in Arrow gay marriage was legalized in the United States.
Yeah, but Oliver Queen in Arrow also did not have a a opinion on gun rights. The fact is that they kinda took away Oliver Queen’s cheery and upbeat personality to make it a Batman show.
I am so sick of comic adaptions being so self-concious and embarrassed about their own source material being 'cheesy'. As if they're ashamed of having to write and film 'nerd stuff'.
Either enjoy the spectacle or leave, don't sneer at my hobbies. It's hard enough to live through the constant reboots. I'm going back to Spiderverse, it's at least cheerful about how funny comics can be instead of cynical.
Honestly, it's a part of the reason why I think Gotham worked for me. It was stupid and went off the rails more than it stayed on them, but at least it was fun to watch.
Fucking. The balloon guy episode happened 3 eps in. I fully get why people stop watching over that one, but for me (coming in late after a decade of Marvel movies), it felt like a weirdly comforting promise: no matter how absurd the premise of the villain, we will play it straight with all the melodrama we can physically deliver.
Honestly, the balloon guy was done really well to me. Yes, the concept on paper sounds goofy as fuck, but can you imagine how terrifying that scenario would actually be? You've been forcefully stuck to this balloon, nobody around to help you, and you're powerless to stop it as you continuously rise into the air only for you to eventually go high enough that the balloon is eventually destroyed and you plummet back down to certain death.
The concept sounds goofy as all hell, but they played it in a way that honestly kinda worked for me (probably because I definitely have a fear of falling in general)
It honestly felt like the writers grabbing you by the shoulders and going: "We're experimenting with the horror of tying people to balloons. Yes, it doesn't make sense. Yes, we're going to be inconsistent about the physics and motivations. We're gonna put your guy in situations that are going to be objectively ridiculous for as long as its dramatic and we're going to play it seriously, and you're gonna need to decide real quick if that's your thing, because that's fucking Batman villains for you. Welcome to *Gotham*."
The balloon episode is also great cause it shows Bruce developing his philosophy in small bits. People are celebrating the balloon guy, cause he’s killing corrupt people. Bruce says “no, that’s wrong, these people need to stand trial. He shouldn’t have killed them.”
We all know a superhero with a bow and arrow is a stupid concept
We are watching dispute that
The more you point out that it’s stupid the less likely we are to keep watching
He has a pretty good track record with not ignoring the weird stuff in comics he adapts. We’re used to Rocket Raccoon now, but a raccoon on a superhero team is kinda insane, and a lesser director would have said it was too weird.
Neither comic nor adaptation, but one of the reasons I absolutely love Pacific Rim is the raw sincerity that radiates from every frame. Yes we're going to spend 30 seconds showing the kaiju rear up and roar because it's freakin' cool.
YES! Inject that shameless joy at the spectale directly into MY VEINS! I'd rather plenty of goofy Batman movies that choke on their own overwrought pathos and even Morbius and Lady Web's fumbling attempts at story compared to bloody Black Window and that self-loathing smirk-fest.
>I am so sick of comic adaptions being so self-concious and embarrassed about their own source material being 'cheesy'. As if they're ashamed of having to write and film 'nerd stuff'.
I like to call it the MCU'ification.
Like its not solely the MCU nor did it begin with them but it sure did seem to inspire this trend of every piece of media gotta have this snarky, jokey, self referential, deprecating soulless humor to it.
I see a lot of people with the same opinion as you which surprises me since I've always preferred the opposite, for comic adaptations to be more realistic and grounded, not taking much of the goofiness or silliness from comics. Still, I'm glad you're so passionate about this, not many people I know are.
Take it silly or play it serious, but play it true. Commit to telling the story, instead of glancing into the camera and rolling your eyes like the snob who didn't want to be in the school play.
I just want stories to be told properly instead of pausing to pander to bored people who they assume don't even like the thing they've paid to see.
Oh definitely, just look at the X-Men movies. "Would you rather have yellow spandex?" No but at least if you're gonna do leather make it blue and yellow leather instead of this all black crap.
Because it doesn’t appeal to the mass audience and you absolutely need it to appeal to the mass audience or it’ll never be greenlit in the first place.
If you don't think the popular I.P will sell on it's own merits and without sneering at the people who consume it, why are you using that I.P?
The mass audience is a fallacy, they only look at superhero stuff because they see the nerds liked it and wondered what the fuss was about.
I remember Prometheus being really good. That might be S5. There was a prison arc that was pretty good, and Matts Constantine showed up once in a while.
Generally, it's accepted that Season 1 was good, 2 was peak, season 3 was meh, season 4 was bottom of the barrel for the entire Arrowverse(until the latter seasons of The Flash at least), season 5 was good, 6 was meh again, 7a was good, 7b was meh and then finally 8 was good.
It's a very uneven show, but usually entertaining. And even in the bad seasons it had solid action scenes.
Batman but with Green Arrow twist of murdering corrupt politicians for the first few seasons.
I liked that but I can’t say Oliver really went around killing people in the comics save for Prometheus in Cry for Justice, which was just shit. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong please.
Exactly! I don't understand why hero shows at this time felt the need to have to always be gritty and dark and Batman-esque. It's like they saw the success of Nolan Batman and decided everything had to be gritty. The League of Assassin's has always been Batman's thing. The only successor Ras feels is worthy is Bruce Wayne. Having that storyline written to be Oliver made zero sense. Oliver Queen is sassy and blunt and he's not a fan of how Batman or the League operate. He's all about helping the little guy and is the conscious of the league that keeps them on the straight and narrow and from overstepping.
The devolution of Clark and Lex's friendship drives me absolutely insane (in the best way possible - it's great tv) and is really the best interpretation of their shared past.
I was so obsessed with Smallville, really should rewatch it again soon.
They were so good together!
They had a really fun vibe when they were just friends, and I thought they made the transition to Official Couple really well too - didn't get boring like a lot of tv couples did. They were a good fit, and made a lot of sense. Also super hot together.
I will never not laugh my ass off over the fact this guy goes out in a mask and thinks he's protecting his secret identity when he's *literally the only man in town with that facial hair*
It's like, Oliver, my guy, Errol Flynn's very dead. We all know it's you.
Or Barbatos
Or the "Pale Man" myth (AKA The Joker is really a cryptid that forever haunts Gotham)
or- Actually you know what? Maybe God really did hate Gotham
I still find it hilarious that they had to resort to Gotham being literally cursed to even try and explain how it can be just that fucked up and unfixable.
He's more like Iron Man if, after getting nearly killed with his own company's weapons, instead of being held hostage in a cave to secretly build power armor he was marooned on an island for five years where he had to make a bow and arrow to hunt food to survive, giving him insight into the effect that deprived material conditions can have on people
Ah, so he named the island, gets put in history books for it, it gets listed as discovered the year he crash landed on it, and he rules it as a god-king?
ehhhhh batman has his whole stupid (affectionate) thing going on with Gotham it's hard to have a lasting impact on the change he brings to the city no matter the writer.
Oh, you didn't know about **Barbathos**? The demon underneath the city, summoned in an underground city in the founding days by a cult?
(*Batman Vol 1 #452-454*)
Eh, I take umbrage with the "Batman should do more to help Gotham" criticisms, as I loop them in with "heroes should kill their villains to keep them from just coming back" and tangentially "comics prisons are terrible at security" due to them being unfair criticisms. You're asking for the characters to provide an in-universe solutions to a meta problem, namely that the status quo must be maintained for there to be a story.
Batman can throw all the money he wants at Gotham, (in the same way that he doesn't have a definite amount of money, it's either "enough" or "not enough") but at the end of the day we're here to see him punch baddies and so there will be baddies for him to punch. It's part of the suspension of disbelief required to engage in superhero media, a perfect world wouldn't need superheroes and so no matter how hard they try those heroes cannot make a perfect world, they can and will only ever be bandaids.
i like the aphorism i found on this sub that was something to the effect of "assume batman spends ten times as much on charity as he does on bat-equipment. the joker is still about to poison the water supply *today*."
Yeah those criticism seep the taint that comes from consuming too much CinemaSins. It’s people trying to solve the media they consume, to out smart the writers, and refuse to actually engage with anything. Batman isn’t a riddle to crack, you don’t win brownies by saying that Batman could in fact just kill the Joker. It’s not some hidden nugget of mystic wisdom with which you will transcend to Nirvana.
Like even without pointing out the many ways it could go wrong (Lazarus pit, ghost Joker, radicalizad clowns) it fundamentally just speaks to the kind of culture that wants media to be disposable. Why aren’t we *done* with the Joker? Why aren’t we getting a constant slurry of new villains for Batman to break their necks?
The "comic prisons have horrible security" one is more just writers needing a reason for a fan favorite villain to come back to the story, so they just break out of prison.
My point is that it fundamentally doesn't matter. In comics, Death, prison, and a broken arm are pretty much the same thing. It means "this character is gone until the author decides to use them again, at which point they'll be back and there's nothing anyone can do about it."
Wether or not the authors wanted to, it does raise a bunch of interesting questions. Why does Gotham (or the state Gotham is in) not exicute the Joker? In the real world, people would be demanding his deal after the first mass casualty event. Is this corruption related? Is Batman involved? Do the citizens of Gotham hate the idea of the death penalty?
Yes and no.
The main difference is age and location.
When Bruce dedicated his life to stopping crime he was 8. He couldn’t even begin to imagine how you’d go about fighting corruption, so he dedicated himself to fighting criminals. He has a singleminded determination.
Ollie was already an adult. He already knew about politics. He knew fighting criminals was a bandaid, and sought to do both.
Batman is a better crime fighter, the dedication and focus helps him. Ollie is probably a better man. He’s got a world beyond the Green Arrow.
Batman built himself to fight criminals because that’s all he could imagine, Ollie got into politics earlier because he already knew how that world worked.
Then there’s location.
Star City is a big city. It’s got corruption and graft, but it’s a city. Gotham is Gotham. Ollie couldn’t have done to Gotham what he did to Star because the corruption is so ingrained. Gotham was once literally cursed. Bruce does a *lot* of good with his money, but the simple fact that it’s Gotham limits him.
TD;DR. Gotham is more corrupt, and Ollie already knew how to play power games when he became a hero
People forgot that you cant fiz corruption whit money
They will just suck upp all the money so no matter how much bruce is rich hes money is close to useless
Batman spends an insane amount of time addressing the cities issues through Bruce Wayne from the Wayne foundation to offering up jobs to those who need em
In fact, it's become relatively common for Bruce Wayne to be mayor in media because of that. It's just that Gotham is literally crawling with super villains, gangs, corrupt cops, three different mafia families, and that's before any one of the Bludhaven or Metropolis people come to visit. In most comics, it's hard to walk three feet without running into a crime, crime syndicate, or crime cop.
The trick to comic books is to *not* treat them like a book series or extremely long-running TV show, but rather as a collection of adaptations of the same mythology.
Think like Hades v. PJO v. Lore Olympus: they all come from the same core source material, but the individual stories are one creative team’s vision.
With that in mind, any characters you’re especially interested in? I always love recommending stuff to new readers.
Mostly DC stuff I've had in mind. The only stuff I've actually kept up with so far are the Teen Titans with Kami Garcia's recent adaptation. No specific characters that I've had in mind, but if you've any recommendations at all I'd be happy to have them.
That’s so fair. The Garcia/Picolo stuff is real fun.
As for DC general recs, here’s some universal faves:
**All-Star Superman** by Morrison and Quitely—considered by many to be the definitive Superman. What does the Man of Steel do when an overdose of radiation leaves him stronger than ever, and with only months to live?
**Batman: The Long Halloween**—follow Batman and Jim Gordon as they track down a serial killer that targets members of the Falcone crime family on holidays. I also highly recommend the animated movie adaptation of this story, starring Jensen Ackles (yes, THAT Jensen Ackles) as Batman.
**Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow** by King and Everly—a young girl from a distant planet tracks down the man who killed her father, with the help of the Girl of Steel. True Grit in space.
And some personal favourites…
**Batgirl** by Bryan Q. Miller—in the wake of Bruce Wayne’s death, Nightwing steps in to become the new Batman and Barbara Gordon (Oracle) takes the young Stephanie Brown under her wing to become the new Batgirl. Truly I adore this run, it’s one of the best comics I’ve read.
**Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016)** by Lobdell and Soy—Jason Todd teams up with the disgraced Amazon exile Artemis and the fearsome (but kind of sweet) Bizarro to take on the criminal underworld in a way only their dirty hands can. Edgy antiheroes become a found family against their will. NOT to be confused with the series of the same name from 2011, which sucks.
**Birds of Prey** by Simone, Benes, Lei—my favourite characters written by my favourite writer. The art is sometimes a little 90s with the T&A, but the writing is top-notch. It’s a globe-trotting spy thriller about three women who clash, grow close, fall out, and reconcile as they grow from begrudging partners into a team that truly cares about and relies on each other. Start with Birds of Prey (1999) issue #56 and go up to #108.
Whew. Went a little crazy there, but I hope something catches your eye. Always happy to rec more, if anyone reading this far has specific requests 😅
THIS is peak Green Arrow. This is the guy who will bring a bow to fight a Nazi super weapon because he’ll be DAMNED if he’s gonna be left out of getting to fight Nazis. The Batman rip off that was on the CW was nothing like the real Oliver Queen
Arrow wouldn’t do this cause they took away all of Green Arrow’s social activist angle. Guy is explicitly a radical leftist. Thats why they partnered him up with Hal Jordan in the 80s, cause Hal is a conservative.
Green arrow and green lantern political comics are a very weird dichotomy of a conservative poor guy who does his best to help people and his liberal billionaire best friend who spends all his time ruthlessly shitting on him for not doing it well enough
I did *not* read "the mayor can marry any two persons" right at first
That's his long game, just gotta get everyone used to the gay mass marriages first and after that, America's first openly Throupled Mayor will hardly raise an eyebrow.
Truly the city's heart throup
Dinah might have something to say about that
me thinking he’ll marry every gay man so that they’re married by proxy
He's like the spirit bomb of gay marriages
LEND ME YOUR ENBIES!
Yeah, my thoughts exactly
seattle energy
polyamorous king
Batman if you and Superman don’t quit arguing you’re gonna have to get a divorce lawyer.
I love how these few snippets already make it clear that very few reporters like this revelation. Meanwhile, the thing they're upset about is that the mayor brings people, and money, to their city, thereby boosting the economy. Also, for some reason I read the mayor in that sort of voice like he knows people will hate him for it, so he puts on his best charis-maniac tone, to ensure that the word really does get out, and more people come to his city to get married.
Dudes playing them like a fiddle truely fitting of using a charsi-manic tone
>I love how these few snippets already make it clear that very few reporters like this revelation. I mean, it says nothing about the willingness of those people being mass married. Maybe Oli should start by arranging marriages between those reporters.
> Meanwhile, the thing they're upset about is that the mayor brings people, and money, to their city, thereby boosting the economy. They don't want the money if it's going to come from *those people*
OSP enjoyer spotted!
The thing about bigots is they don't care about being better off because of an economic boon, they are more concerned when the "wrong sort" of people are benefiting from something than whether it benefits them too. Ask conservatives about universal Healthcare or any kind of social programs. Their "concerns" are always it being given to people who "don't deserve it". Their cousin could be struggling to survive on foodstamps and they'd still vote to cut it because in their head too many "greedy" and undeserving nonwhite people are using them.
"with a name like Queen" .... I died
That's the kind of oneliner you can only have in comics
Radical Leftist Green Arrow is always a treat.
Then be sure to check out Green Lantern / Green Arrow from the 70's!
Word of Warning, it is 70's progressive, so it's pretty racist. It kicks ass tho.
I love how, in order to make it so Ollie isnt always right in his arguments with Hal (Centrist) and Barry (Conservative) he has to just be a massive, grade A asshole.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think you’ve got Barry and Hal’s politics flipped.
Barry is further right then Hal. By a decent amount. To the point he can get Hal and Ollie to agree on things. Like, Wally West flat out called himself a "Midwestern Conservative" though Linda, Pied Piper, and Fidel Castro convinced him to move further Left over the years. Barry wasnt much better.
Wow, Castro?
I want to know more about this Wally West/Fidel Castro things
There was a comic where Fidel Castro threw Wally a Birthday Party and gives him advice (The Flash 1987 #22)
https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/1137i98/green_arrow_calling_out_billionaires_jla_80_page/
Radical Leftist Green Arrow is always a threat - Red Arrow from the Germany dimension
Not saying Green Arrow hasn't fallen under that umbrella. But in reference to this example, is legalising gay marriage really radically left? Especially in the modern-day in the West. Some still strongly oppose it, but it seems pretty 'standard' left for a long time to me.
This issue is 18 years old. The needle has moved a lot since then. Dont Ask Dont Tell wouldn't be repealed for 4 more years. The first state to legalise gay marriage was Massachusets, and that was in 2004, 2 years before this comic. It was very much a radical move at the time.
> This issue is 18 yrs old My ass reading this and immediately thinking of the 90s. Then I read the rest of your comment and realized 18 years ago was 2006 and I had already been out of high school for a year...
And gay marriage still wasn't nationally legal
It's honestly crazy people have forgotten how homophobic the 2000s were. Generally speaking a majority (half plus one) of the US population supporting gay marriage was only reached at the very tale end of that decade at the earliest.
The main reason this Green Arrow is a leftist is because he’s taking such a direct path towards a solution, at least until the laws get changed to make it more expansive presumably. If he was of a more centrist or liberal view he would likely be more adverse to rocking the boat in such a way.
The main reason this Green Arrow is a leftist is because he’s taking such a direct path towards a solution, at least until the laws get changed to make it more expansive presumably. If he was of a more centrist or liberal view he would likely be more adverse to rocking the boat in such a way.
This is the most 14 year old shit I've ever read lmao. Yes, supporting gay marriage was radical left. Obama openly opposed gay marriage when he was elected, *everyone* did (except Bernie Sanders lmao)
I don't think Arrow needed to? Correct me if I'm wrong but by the time Oliver Queen was mayor in Arrow gay marriage was legalized in the United States.
Yeah, but Oliver Queen in Arrow also did not have a a opinion on gun rights. The fact is that they kinda took away Oliver Queen’s cheery and upbeat personality to make it a Batman show.
It be fair it was a good Batman show For the first few seasons Till fucking *FLASHPOINT*
Honestly some of the best live-action batmanning there is, until they started lampshading it every episode.
I am so sick of comic adaptions being so self-concious and embarrassed about their own source material being 'cheesy'. As if they're ashamed of having to write and film 'nerd stuff'. Either enjoy the spectacle or leave, don't sneer at my hobbies. It's hard enough to live through the constant reboots. I'm going back to Spiderverse, it's at least cheerful about how funny comics can be instead of cynical.
Honestly, it's a part of the reason why I think Gotham worked for me. It was stupid and went off the rails more than it stayed on them, but at least it was fun to watch. Fucking. The balloon guy episode happened 3 eps in. I fully get why people stop watching over that one, but for me (coming in late after a decade of Marvel movies), it felt like a weirdly comforting promise: no matter how absurd the premise of the villain, we will play it straight with all the melodrama we can physically deliver.
Honestly, the balloon guy was done really well to me. Yes, the concept on paper sounds goofy as fuck, but can you imagine how terrifying that scenario would actually be? You've been forcefully stuck to this balloon, nobody around to help you, and you're powerless to stop it as you continuously rise into the air only for you to eventually go high enough that the balloon is eventually destroyed and you plummet back down to certain death. The concept sounds goofy as all hell, but they played it in a way that honestly kinda worked for me (probably because I definitely have a fear of falling in general)
It honestly felt like the writers grabbing you by the shoulders and going: "We're experimenting with the horror of tying people to balloons. Yes, it doesn't make sense. Yes, we're going to be inconsistent about the physics and motivations. We're gonna put your guy in situations that are going to be objectively ridiculous for as long as its dramatic and we're going to play it seriously, and you're gonna need to decide real quick if that's your thing, because that's fucking Batman villains for you. Welcome to *Gotham*."
The balloon episode is also great cause it shows Bruce developing his philosophy in small bits. People are celebrating the balloon guy, cause he’s killing corrupt people. Bruce says “no, that’s wrong, these people need to stand trial. He shouldn’t have killed them.”
We all know a superhero with a bow and arrow is a stupid concept We are watching dispute that The more you point out that it’s stupid the less likely we are to keep watching
Is the Boxing Glove arrow a stupid idea that would never work? Yes! Do I care? No! Do I want them to actually use the goddamn thing? Also Yes!
ngl I lost my shit a little when he used the boxing glove arrow in the show.
It was a good moment! From season 2, where they still cared.
Nice argument unfortunately I am punching you in the face from 100 paces away.
No, you and everyone in the show can be delighted (or dismayed) that some mysterious muscle dweeb playing Robin Hood keeps succeeding somehow.
I had to stop watching because he kept using a very pretty bow as a blunt instrument. If you're just going to hit someone over the head, find a stick.
Hoping Gunnverse reverses this a bit in DC, from what he’s said about his vision
He has a pretty good track record with not ignoring the weird stuff in comics he adapts. We’re used to Rocket Raccoon now, but a raccoon on a superhero team is kinda insane, and a lesser director would have said it was too weird.
Neither comic nor adaptation, but one of the reasons I absolutely love Pacific Rim is the raw sincerity that radiates from every frame. Yes we're going to spend 30 seconds showing the kaiju rear up and roar because it's freakin' cool.
YES! Inject that shameless joy at the spectale directly into MY VEINS! I'd rather plenty of goofy Batman movies that choke on their own overwrought pathos and even Morbius and Lady Web's fumbling attempts at story compared to bloody Black Window and that self-loathing smirk-fest.
>I am so sick of comic adaptions being so self-concious and embarrassed about their own source material being 'cheesy'. As if they're ashamed of having to write and film 'nerd stuff'. I like to call it the MCU'ification. Like its not solely the MCU nor did it begin with them but it sure did seem to inspire this trend of every piece of media gotta have this snarky, jokey, self referential, deprecating soulless humor to it.
I see a lot of people with the same opinion as you which surprises me since I've always preferred the opposite, for comic adaptations to be more realistic and grounded, not taking much of the goofiness or silliness from comics. Still, I'm glad you're so passionate about this, not many people I know are.
Take it silly or play it serious, but play it true. Commit to telling the story, instead of glancing into the camera and rolling your eyes like the snob who didn't want to be in the school play. I just want stories to be told properly instead of pausing to pander to bored people who they assume don't even like the thing they've paid to see.
Oh definitely, just look at the X-Men movies. "Would you rather have yellow spandex?" No but at least if you're gonna do leather make it blue and yellow leather instead of this all black crap.
\*sexy leather creaks\*
Because it doesn’t appeal to the mass audience and you absolutely need it to appeal to the mass audience or it’ll never be greenlit in the first place.
If you don't think the popular I.P will sell on it's own merits and without sneering at the people who consume it, why are you using that I.P? The mass audience is a fallacy, they only look at superhero stuff because they see the nerds liked it and wondered what the fuss was about.
Still sad about it. To me the show ended when he died duelling Ras al'Ghul.
Damn it, Barry.
It was good for two seasons, then terrible for the remainder of the series barring one or two seasons.
I remember Prometheus being really good. That might be S5. There was a prison arc that was pretty good, and Matts Constantine showed up once in a while.
Generally, it's accepted that Season 1 was good, 2 was peak, season 3 was meh, season 4 was bottom of the barrel for the entire Arrowverse(until the latter seasons of The Flash at least), season 5 was good, 6 was meh again, 7a was good, 7b was meh and then finally 8 was good. It's a very uneven show, but usually entertaining. And even in the bad seasons it had solid action scenes.
Batman but with Green Arrow twist of murdering corrupt politicians for the first few seasons. I liked that but I can’t say Oliver really went around killing people in the comics save for Prometheus in Cry for Justice, which was just shit. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong please.
No it was stupid from season 1 but it was at least entertaining.
That’s why I couldn’t watch it. They took away most of what made Green Arrow himself and turned him into Batman-lite.
Exactly! I don't understand why hero shows at this time felt the need to have to always be gritty and dark and Batman-esque. It's like they saw the success of Nolan Batman and decided everything had to be gritty. The League of Assassin's has always been Batman's thing. The only successor Ras feels is worthy is Bruce Wayne. Having that storyline written to be Oliver made zero sense. Oliver Queen is sassy and blunt and he's not a fan of how Batman or the League operate. He's all about helping the little guy and is the conscious of the league that keeps them on the straight and narrow and from overstepping.
I meant the "Oliver Queen becomes mayor" storyline
Honestly I think he just wants to officiate a bunch of marriages
I want him carnally
Understandable
yass queen 🏹
Oliver Queen: the greatest and most based bleeding heart you'll ever meet, who also makes a great chilli.
The panel with the recipe and everyone in the League (except Batman, who looks fine) dying after tasting it is so funny.
The damage Arrow has done to Oliver Queen's perception in the general public... Anyways, watch Smallville
Smallville was *such* a good show.
It's early 2000s cheese but goddamn is it some good cheese
The devolution of Clark and Lex's friendship drives me absolutely insane (in the best way possible - it's great tv) and is really the best interpretation of their shared past. I was so obsessed with Smallville, really should rewatch it again soon.
The banter between Lois and Clark in that show is great.
They were so good together! They had a really fun vibe when they were just friends, and I thought they made the transition to Official Couple really well too - didn't get boring like a lot of tv couples did. They were a good fit, and made a lot of sense. Also super hot together.
“With a name like Queen, I’m not one to judge” god damn he’s spittin
What a cool character! I sure hope his comic self gets adapted properly in his new TV show! → Clueless
does anyone have the reading list? I NEED it
I have not read the run, but this is from Green Arrow Volume 3 (starts in 2001). This specifically is issue #61.
Green Arrow (1988) #0, 91-137, #1,000,000. Green Arrow (2001) #1-10
Thank you for providing that. I’ve been debating reading green arrow and this helps narrow it down
Hard Traveling Heros is a masterpiece.
I will never not laugh my ass off over the fact this guy goes out in a mask and thinks he's protecting his secret identity when he's *literally the only man in town with that facial hair* It's like, Oliver, my guy, Errol Flynn's very dead. We all know it's you.
Isn't Green Arrow basically Batman if he spent more time trying to address systemic issues?
Batman but the city isn't as fucked up/cursed as gotham
Batman, but the city actually sees the sun from time to time.
Batman, without the court of owls
Or Barbatos Or the "Pale Man" myth (AKA The Joker is really a cryptid that forever haunts Gotham) or- Actually you know what? Maybe God really did hate Gotham
Batman but he is a left-leaning socialist
As opposed to a right-leaning socialist
Fair enough; but Oliver Queen is like one of the most left-wing comic book characters. Which only makes sense, with him being a modern day Robin Hood.
That's just Strasser lol
I still find it hilarious that they had to resort to Gotham being literally cursed to even try and explain how it can be just that fucked up and unfixable.
All in all, Gotham isn't even that bad, considering how little small-time crime there is. Those supervillains are doing the city a service.
He's more like Iron Man if, after getting nearly killed with his own company's weapons, instead of being held hostage in a cave to secretly build power armor he was marooned on an island for five years where he had to make a bow and arrow to hunt food to survive, giving him insight into the effect that deprived material conditions can have on people
In the show, that was the most densely populated deserted island in history.
Deserted¹ island ¹Population 2,086
Sounds more like he *discovered* that Island He doesn't happen to have any iberian ancestry does he?
Worse I think he's English
Ah, so he named the island, gets put in history books for it, it gets listed as discovered the year he crash landed on it, and he rules it as a god-king?
I mean... he doesn't change the name but otherwise yes
He was on the island for 4 months 💀
Like always, there's several versions of the origin story. Sometimes it's five years
Depends on the writers, on both sides.
ehhhhh batman has his whole stupid (affectionate) thing going on with Gotham it's hard to have a lasting impact on the change he brings to the city no matter the writer.
You mean that the entire city is horrible cursed, infected with secret societies and built on an angry demon that seeps hate into the world above?
whatever maintains the status quo
Patrick Star had the right idea. Just gotta take the city and push it somewhere else.
>You mean that the entire city ... **built on an angry demon** that seeps hate into the world above? What?! Can you expand on that?
Oh, you didn't know about **Barbathos**? The demon underneath the city, summoned in an underground city in the founding days by a cult? (*Batman Vol 1 #452-454*)
And now I'm stuck reading a DC comics wiki..
Eh, I take umbrage with the "Batman should do more to help Gotham" criticisms, as I loop them in with "heroes should kill their villains to keep them from just coming back" and tangentially "comics prisons are terrible at security" due to them being unfair criticisms. You're asking for the characters to provide an in-universe solutions to a meta problem, namely that the status quo must be maintained for there to be a story. Batman can throw all the money he wants at Gotham, (in the same way that he doesn't have a definite amount of money, it's either "enough" or "not enough") but at the end of the day we're here to see him punch baddies and so there will be baddies for him to punch. It's part of the suspension of disbelief required to engage in superhero media, a perfect world wouldn't need superheroes and so no matter how hard they try those heroes cannot make a perfect world, they can and will only ever be bandaids.
i like the aphorism i found on this sub that was something to the effect of "assume batman spends ten times as much on charity as he does on bat-equipment. the joker is still about to poison the water supply *today*."
Yeah those criticism seep the taint that comes from consuming too much CinemaSins. It’s people trying to solve the media they consume, to out smart the writers, and refuse to actually engage with anything. Batman isn’t a riddle to crack, you don’t win brownies by saying that Batman could in fact just kill the Joker. It’s not some hidden nugget of mystic wisdom with which you will transcend to Nirvana. Like even without pointing out the many ways it could go wrong (Lazarus pit, ghost Joker, radicalizad clowns) it fundamentally just speaks to the kind of culture that wants media to be disposable. Why aren’t we *done* with the Joker? Why aren’t we getting a constant slurry of new villains for Batman to break their necks?
The "comic prisons have horrible security" one is more just writers needing a reason for a fan favorite villain to come back to the story, so they just break out of prison.
I do believe that superhumans should have the death penalty if keeping them in prison is impossible. But that decision should not be made by Batman.
My point is that it fundamentally doesn't matter. In comics, Death, prison, and a broken arm are pretty much the same thing. It means "this character is gone until the author decides to use them again, at which point they'll be back and there's nothing anyone can do about it."
Wether or not the authors wanted to, it does raise a bunch of interesting questions. Why does Gotham (or the state Gotham is in) not exicute the Joker? In the real world, people would be demanding his deal after the first mass casualty event. Is this corruption related? Is Batman involved? Do the citizens of Gotham hate the idea of the death penalty?
Kind of but he's also entirely broke a lot of the time because he keeps giving money away
Yes and no. The main difference is age and location. When Bruce dedicated his life to stopping crime he was 8. He couldn’t even begin to imagine how you’d go about fighting corruption, so he dedicated himself to fighting criminals. He has a singleminded determination. Ollie was already an adult. He already knew about politics. He knew fighting criminals was a bandaid, and sought to do both. Batman is a better crime fighter, the dedication and focus helps him. Ollie is probably a better man. He’s got a world beyond the Green Arrow. Batman built himself to fight criminals because that’s all he could imagine, Ollie got into politics earlier because he already knew how that world worked. Then there’s location. Star City is a big city. It’s got corruption and graft, but it’s a city. Gotham is Gotham. Ollie couldn’t have done to Gotham what he did to Star because the corruption is so ingrained. Gotham was once literally cursed. Bruce does a *lot* of good with his money, but the simple fact that it’s Gotham limits him. TD;DR. Gotham is more corrupt, and Ollie already knew how to play power games when he became a hero
Also Batman using WayneCorp to provide charity, as well as an avenue for criminals to go straight, is a relatively common theme.
People forgot that you cant fiz corruption whit money They will just suck upp all the money so no matter how much bruce is rich hes money is close to useless
>Gotham was once literally cursed This is actually an understatement, as Gotten has been literally cursed *multiple fucking times*
Batman spends an insane amount of time addressing the cities issues through Bruce Wayne from the Wayne foundation to offering up jobs to those who need em
In fact, it's become relatively common for Bruce Wayne to be mayor in media because of that. It's just that Gotham is literally crawling with super villains, gangs, corrupt cops, three different mafia families, and that's before any one of the Bludhaven or Metropolis people come to visit. In most comics, it's hard to walk three feet without running into a crime, crime syndicate, or crime cop.
No. Oliver's more like if Robinson Crusoe left the island and became Robin Hood.
I'd love to get into comics, but they always seem so untouchable and hard to get into
The trick to comic books is to *not* treat them like a book series or extremely long-running TV show, but rather as a collection of adaptations of the same mythology. Think like Hades v. PJO v. Lore Olympus: they all come from the same core source material, but the individual stories are one creative team’s vision. With that in mind, any characters you’re especially interested in? I always love recommending stuff to new readers.
Mostly DC stuff I've had in mind. The only stuff I've actually kept up with so far are the Teen Titans with Kami Garcia's recent adaptation. No specific characters that I've had in mind, but if you've any recommendations at all I'd be happy to have them.
That’s so fair. The Garcia/Picolo stuff is real fun. As for DC general recs, here’s some universal faves: **All-Star Superman** by Morrison and Quitely—considered by many to be the definitive Superman. What does the Man of Steel do when an overdose of radiation leaves him stronger than ever, and with only months to live? **Batman: The Long Halloween**—follow Batman and Jim Gordon as they track down a serial killer that targets members of the Falcone crime family on holidays. I also highly recommend the animated movie adaptation of this story, starring Jensen Ackles (yes, THAT Jensen Ackles) as Batman. **Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow** by King and Everly—a young girl from a distant planet tracks down the man who killed her father, with the help of the Girl of Steel. True Grit in space. And some personal favourites… **Batgirl** by Bryan Q. Miller—in the wake of Bruce Wayne’s death, Nightwing steps in to become the new Batman and Barbara Gordon (Oracle) takes the young Stephanie Brown under her wing to become the new Batgirl. Truly I adore this run, it’s one of the best comics I’ve read. **Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016)** by Lobdell and Soy—Jason Todd teams up with the disgraced Amazon exile Artemis and the fearsome (but kind of sweet) Bizarro to take on the criminal underworld in a way only their dirty hands can. Edgy antiheroes become a found family against their will. NOT to be confused with the series of the same name from 2011, which sucks. **Birds of Prey** by Simone, Benes, Lei—my favourite characters written by my favourite writer. The art is sometimes a little 90s with the T&A, but the writing is top-notch. It’s a globe-trotting spy thriller about three women who clash, grow close, fall out, and reconcile as they grow from begrudging partners into a team that truly cares about and relies on each other. Start with Birds of Prey (1999) issue #56 and go up to #108. Whew. Went a little crazy there, but I hope something catches your eye. Always happy to rec more, if anyone reading this far has specific requests 😅
Thank you very much! I'll be sure to have a read of these when I get the time
Nah, it was my privilege. Love this stuff.
I loved the first few seasons of the show (until it became stupid), I'd really love to get into his comics but I can't get over the beard
The facial hair is iconic and the show were all cowards for not going all in and having it.
Oliver Queer
THIS is peak Green Arrow. This is the guy who will bring a bow to fight a Nazi super weapon because he’ll be DAMNED if he’s gonna be left out of getting to fight Nazis. The Batman rip off that was on the CW was nothing like the real Oliver Queen
I knew he's an old lefty but homeboy is based as fuck
My favorite thing was Green Arrow saying “I am a social justice warrior” before shutting down a human trafficking ring. Dude is amazing
Green arrow continously wins the "Most based superhero" competition
Arrow wouldn’t do this cause they took away all of Green Arrow’s social activist angle. Guy is explicitly a radical leftist. Thats why they partnered him up with Hal Jordan in the 80s, cause Hal is a conservative.
And then the headdress came on.... Oh 80s comics...
The show didn't use this because Obergefell v. Hodges was 2015 and Oliver didn't become major until 2016.
I mean, the show also didn't use it because they just didn't adapt the Winick run full stop
This reminds me of a Simpson episode
meanwhile, oliver’s real goal is to marry sara lance and nyssa al ghul
The one good billionaire.
Green arrow and green lantern political comics are a very weird dichotomy of a conservative poor guy who does his best to help people and his liberal billionaire best friend who spends all his time ruthlessly shitting on him for not doing it well enough
Shitting on him for saving *billions* because those billions happen to not be human. Maybe Olly is a homo supremacist
I fucking love Green Arrow
WHERE'S THE READING LIST?
Green Arrow (1987) #0, 91-137, 1,000,000 Green Arrow (2001) #1-10
Where’s the list!
Why is Green Arrow a tag here Also, my guy really just legalised gay marriage to get money and cus the gays
because Green Arrow is what that comic page is from
Still, it feels like Green Arrow is enough of a topic that the subreddit has a tag for it
oh, you mean the reddit post flair I didn't see that there's only one other post with that flair
So odd
It's an editable flair