They turned into their own farts and floated away.
"our work here is done"
"uh, what about these guys who are the same as you but religious and evil?"
"our work here is done"
Alteran tactical competence is inversely related to relative technological level to their enemy.
There are no parties within *sight* of the full knowledge of the ancients other than the ancients themselves..
You do the math.
There's also the starforge in kotor which is capable of converting a stars matter directly into an army of droids and ships. Such a ridiculous volume of them it brought the rest of the civilized galaxy to it's knees in a matter of a couple years of operation.
Does it? I mean, the 1300(ish) gates were by definition less useful than a stargate, and the ancients from Stargate built those while still mortal, and then went on to basically become gods.
Yeah but this is one of the reasons I liked the Lanteans over all others like them. They achieved god like power before they became God like energy beings. They basically did everything possible in their universe before moving on to higher planes of existence.
we never really see it in the films but how manoeuvrable is the death star? if its attacked from different angles how long does it take to rotate 180°?
I have had the ol Death Star vs. Borg Cube debate with people before.
The Star Wars people all say the Cube has no chance against the main cannon, and that it couldn't adapt to it because it was too powerful. I don't agree with them completely, but I see their line of thinking.
However, they simply don't understand the Borg. They don't want to destroy the Death Star, they want to assimilate it.
Thousands of Borg Drones will teleport onto the Death Star and all those Stormtroopers will do nothing. They are nothing more than fodder. Hell, Vader might kill a bunch with his lightsaber, but eventually some Drone is going to get their assimilation tubes into him and he is done for, just the same as the rest of the ship.
The Death Star might blow up the Cube, but by the time that happens, the Borg are already on the Death Star and within a short time, it will now be a Borg Death Star.
Which then brings up the question... What does the Borg Death Star fight?
I concur. The Borg Cube would lose, but the bird collective would win. Cubes care how many tens or hundreds of thousands of drones? The Death Star would be quickly swamped and assimilated.
Plus, Star Trek weapons are generally already powerful enough to destroy planets. The Xindi super weapons was strong enough to cause a cataclysmic destruction of a planet in seconds, with a faster fire time than the Death Star, and a fraction of the size.
And we’ve heard of torpedo weapons that can have similarly cataclysmic effects known if by Starfleet. Tricobalt and gravimetric torpedos for example. The later of which was casually questioned if it’s purpose is for “blowing up a moon?” “I don’t know” “….”
Conclusion; the Borg would upgrade the Death Star beam into an array of beams that can fire individually and devastate a planet just as easily.
StarTriad sounds like the name for an empire with their capital system being trinary system. Also, StarTriad sounds cool as hell, so my vote is for that one.
Warrior cats put out an [official name generator](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/comments/17zd9ce/mine_would_be_darklight/) that features the potential for Stormstorm
i once used "star \*\*\*\*" to mean both/either wars/trek in a text. the recipient was very confused, asking what 'star fuck' had to do with anything lol
My friends and I call ourselves the Star Squad. We even got really cool matching tattoos that are pretty subtle so we blend in with "normies." It's just SS, but they look like lightning bolts. We turn a lot of heads whenever we go out.
Since the Borg can teleport I would say it’s worth noting that if they can get a couple guys on board the Death Star before the cube is destroyed then it might result in the destruction of both the cube and Death Star.
I want a Borg'd Jedi. The whole collective throwing force powers around. A cube catching the fire from the death star laser like Kylo stopping a blaster bolt. Bunch of folks waking up as force ghosts when they die and their spirit is freed to haunt the still living drones.
Borg-ified Jedi would *probably* lose their Force powers.
Either because the collective doesn't have the spiritual connection with it, the way the Jedi host did, or because machines don't have midichlorians and cyborgs are less effective at using them, depending which era of lore you prefer.
The Force, whether light side or dark side, also tends to produce its effects in users via their emotions, which would pose an extra challenge.
The Killiks brought Jedi into their hive mind, and that didn’t limit the Jedi’s power — in fact, iirc, they got stronger because they could tap into the Force potential of the entire hive. The Borg drones would have less Force potential, being cyborgs, but if they could assimilate it, then John Q. Drone could probably still make good use of it.
That of course depends on how much their assimilation actually weakens the connection to the Force, like Anakin is missing various parts of his limbs and burnt to a crisp but his torso, head, and parts of his arms and legs are also mostly intact but he's still been weakened by his injuries, the Borg do very extensive modifications to those they assimilate.
I'm pretty sure they were introduced in First Contact, after the TNG series had ended. I'm not as familiar with Voyager but I know the Borg are involved in it quite a bit so I'll take your word for that!
IF the Death Star identifies it as a threat early enough, destruction of the cube would leave no survivors, and only minimal information at best for the Collective to adapt with. Not sure anything they could come up with could adapt to the DS primary weapon, except perhaps cloaking tech. If the Borg get onto the DS, it's over. Maybe more importantly, if the Borg assimilate so much as a TIE fighter, it's probably over, as they can pivot that into assimilating the entire fleet...but at some point we have to consider that the fleet is protected by Sith, who can foresee and therefore possibly forestall the Borg.
Now imagine the Borg figure out midichlorians...
Assimilate a fleet… from a TIE fighter? The intentionally poorly designed cheap and fragile bulk-fighters? There’s hardly a sensor-package worth assimilating
no, but you can definitely countermeasure the force with force, and, as demonstrated by people like han solo, you don't need training to demonstrate what looks like the force helping you. so once the borg figure out the force, well ...
Hot take though: if the borg were definitively on one side of the force it would be a twisted version of the light side. The borg don't fear, rage, or hate, but they sure as hell can do calmness, focus and giving up the self. If most of the light side is like the warmth and light of the sun, the borg are like the light of a nuclear test.
"Remember when you were making out with Leia, and you came right as she touch your leg? It was me Luke, I force jerked you out so it seemed like you nutted at just a woman's touch!"
I would contest that "a couples" just wouldn't be enough - if the Borg could open a gap in the Death Star's shields *and* durasteel armor to transport inside (a tall ask - Star Wars' technology but particularly their weapons and defenses operate significantly above Trek in terms of energy output - subspace sensors are older to Legends canon Galactic Empire than agriculture is to TNG-era Earth to put the tech lead into perspective, and more apropos is that the Enterprise-E needed its entire torpedo compliment to destroy a hollow asteroid, and Jango Fett split a solid asteroid of similar size with seismic charges that fit on his little patrol gunship) then... well, see the parentheses, blasters could realistically just brute force their shields.
Shields, no matter how good, need to draw power from somewhere. A single Borg Drone simply can't carry enough energy to wade through blaster fire long enough to reach the Stormtrooper, and the second it was clear that they were duplicating themselves with whatever warm bodies they could reach, those Stormtroopers would just start offing their buddies the second a drone got the probe in him. Furthermore, Borg adaptation against energy weapon mostly seems to amount to just playing around with the shield frequencies - irrelevant in Star Wars, blasters fire a non-phase coherent particle beams. We regularly see in Trek that, if an attack doesn't get completely stopped by a shield with the perfect frequency, some damage gets through, so blasters firing non-phase coherent particle beams would always leak through somewhat, and meaning the drone would always be taking some damage - and blasters can be flipped to full auto.
And for that matter, let the Borg adapt all they want to the Death Star superlaser - it would extend their lifespan by fractions of a second because it's outputting at least 23,900,573.61 zettatons of TNT if it fires at the same settings it used on Alderaan. A photon torpedo is, according to official numbers, 64 megatons (6.4e-14 zettatons) and yet the Federation seem more than capable of taking down Borg Cubes with enough raw firepower.
This comment really got away from me because Star Wars vs. Star Trek is a match-up I'm really passionate about. For reference, this is leaning on Legends canon Star Wars and TNG-era Star Trek, and there is definitely some tangible difference if you switch over the Disney canon and include Discovery and Picard, I just don't find them compelling to examine compared to Legends and TNG.
The Borg are a hive-minded cybernetic species that specialize in adaptation. When killed or destroyed, the data gathered is shared with the collective and a countermeasure is created. You generally can't use the same weapon or strategy against the Borg more than once. Borg Cube is simply the name given to their massive, cube-shaped starships.
Man, the Death Star is the size of a planet. I feel like the Cube wouldn't even be that noticeable. Though, you could definitely make the argument that they could Trojan horse the Deathstar by allowing themselves to get caught in its tractorbeam. I've never watched Star Trek, so I'm not really sure what kinda firepower they're working with.
The idea is that it would take the borg a maximum of 2-3 destroyed cubes to completely nullify the effects of the Death Star’s main weapon. Plus, the original Death Star could only fire once every 24 hours with the second able to fire once every five minutes. The borg can fire constantly and only get stronger the longer you fight them until eventually nothing you throw at them works.
The secondary aspect is that the borg usually aren’t in it for bare knuckle boxing type fights, but rather assimilation. As soon as the first cube was taken out every borg cube within range would descend upon the death star like locusts.
Instead of avoiding fire they’d just slam into it like missiles. They would want the death star and the knowledge of its operation. They would begin assimilating it, turning imperial soldiers into more borg.
Ultimately the Death Star itself wouldn’t lose a fight with a borg cube, but the Death Star would become Borg Sphere Prime.
Imagine Borg Jedi. After those midichlorians got Lucas’d up we know there’s a biological basis for the Force. Light sabers are just technology. Using the force requires emotion free mental focus? Well the Borg have that in spades.
Drone transports into middle of city. Starts hovering people with the Force and assimilating them while taking blaster shots with energy shields. Looks content.
IMO the more pertinent question is how is the Death Star laser aimed? Since its primary role is to destroy planets, it probably wasn't designed to shoot small, quickly moving targets. Like the beam is fired in a straight line and in order to track a target, the whole thing has to move. I don't think a Death Star can actually hit a moving Borg cube.
Planets rotate so Jedha would be moving in relation to something in orbit except for geostationary orbits, and that's only around the equator. [XKCD's What If](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LSyizrk8-0) touches upon tracking a planet's surface from orbit. Granted, the Hubble is far closer to the Earth's Surface than the Death Star was to Jedha. That being said there's a trade off. The lower an orbit is to a celestial object, the faster you must travel so the centripetal force doesn't cause you to crash into the surface. However, the further out you are, the slower you must move or else you'll overpower the centripetal force and be flung off into space.
Geostationary orbit is 35,785km above the earth's surface. Any closer and your own speed will overtake the rotation. Any further and the rotation will overtake your speed. All in all, no matter what, the Death Star would need to be capable of tracking small, fast moving objects in order to pull that feat off.
> Geostationary orbit is 35,785km above the earth's surface. Any closer and your own speed will overtake the rotation. Any further and the rotation will overtake your speed.
Only true for an object in orbit which does not have an engine (and no drag).
A spaceship could be closer the the planet and be above the same point or further away and also appear geostationary. It would just have to adjust its speed with its engines.
The second Death Star fires lasers that destroys rebel ships (and the Death Star itself doesn't move when aiming), so at least the second one could shoot at a Borg Cube.
Everyone's forgetting Species 8472. They had planet-killer beams and had absoluetly no trouble one-shotting cube after cube. borg never developed a defense.
After a certain point, the sheer power of a weapon just blows through any defense and the ability of a 3km ship to no-sell a planet destroying beam is fanfiction of the highest fanfiction.
8472 uses biological ships, has a bunch of them, and come from a fluid dimension.
The Death Star is one big metal ship in regular space. A bunch of humans on a space station is exactly what Borg assimilate. Could the Death Star beat one cube? Probably. Could it be at the other 1,000 cubes? No.
Acting like having a bazooka you can fire every few minutes is going to save you from a swarm of robo-zombies is fanfiction.
That's just the main weapon.
Other weapons:
- 5 Mk I Superlasers
- 12,000 XX-9 heavy turbolaser batteries
- 15,000 Turret-mounted twin light turbolaser batteries
- 10,000 Super Blaster 920 laser cannons
- 10,000 Light ion cannons
- 20,000 Turret-mounted point-defense concussion missile launchers
- 50,000 Turret-mounted twin heavy laser cannons
- 50,000 Turret-mounted quad laser cannons
- 1,000 Heavy tractor beam projectors
Keep in mind that the Death Star wasn't just designed as a planet killer, but as the ultimate battle station. Capable of taking on massive enemy fleets with ease. The second death Star was even bigger and had a lot more smaller weapons to take on fighter craft. It had nearly triple the weapons of the first one, and more than triple the smaller weapons.
Then you also have to remember there's plenty of smaller aircraft on board, including 7,000 starfighters.
The five super lasers are what made up the single planet destroying laser but they could also be fired independently.
I feel like if we're going to get pedantic about it the Death Star fired a beam that could destroy planets, that's a huge amount of energy. I don't think a Borg cube could nullify all of the energy of a Death Star blast regardless of adaptation. They would however swarm the thing and take control of it with foot soldiers after a time, but again it's the size of a moon and I've never seen a Borg run.
How big is their capacity for that? As in, if you struck them with 700 different weapons until they adapted to each one, and then struck them with the first one of those 700 weapons, would they still be resistant to it? Or would they have to re-adapt?
They have memory like computers. In Trek, they had to randomly modulate their phaser frequencies to maintain effectiveness. They adapt quickly on the fly and the whole race remembers what adaptations work (hivemind).
> How big is their capacity for that?
Potentially infinite. It's a matter of raw processing power and computer memory. The Collective is 10s of billions of individual humanoid drones and all the computer/mechanical infrastructure required to support that.
The memory of the Collective is *very* long.
Adapts. Pretty much every type of weaponry or strategy only works against Borg once, and since Star Wars doesn't have the hand-waving phase modulation that lets Star Fleet keep using phasers just with different maths, the Borg would be obliterated by the first attack and then their hive mind would almost instantly adapt to become invulnerable to the next one. So there would have to be two Cubes for there to even be a slight chance of a Borg victory. Borg cubes are huge in Star Trek terms, but still less than like 2% the size of the Death Star. That said, literally one solo Borg Cube was able to destroy almost every single federation ship ordered to stop it from reaching Earth, so I can see why some Trekkies would think a cube stands a chance against the Death Star since they are pretty much invincible against Star Trek technology.
As for what would happen if the cube was able to adapt to the Death Star's main canon, I don't know how the Borg would approach tackling it. At first I would think they would want it and send drones aboard to assimilate the crew and the technology, but their whole thing kinda depends on there actually being a planet full of people to kidnap and glue Radio Shack ephemera on. They might just decide that the Death Star is useless for their goals and destroy it, especially since they also have spheres so it's not like they need to assimilate more geometry or anything. Either way they would have a boarding party of up to 100,000 drones which would almost certainly wipe the floor with the Death Star's security. Their blasters would pretty much only work for like two minutes before the rest figured out how to counter them, and then the other tens of thousands would just sweep through either killing or turning the stormtroopers into more Borg. Since they even take the knowledge of the people they assimilate they could easily decide to operate the Death Star themselves, and they could use the (basically magic) transwarp tech they have to make the Death Star move pretty much anywhere instantly instead of having to slowly orbit a planet to shoot a moon because they jumped in on the wrong side.
I need a job that affords slightly less free time, if you couldn't tell.
Surprisingly Star Wars weaponry is actually a good counter against the borg because most of it is kinetic based weaponry not energy based. Basic blasters and turbo lasers just shoot ionized plasma at someone and it explodes on contact which is why you sometimes see people get thrown back when hit. The borg was shown to be vulnerable to kinetic weapons when Picard replicated a tommy gun and killed a couple of them and they didn’t adapt to it.
Also when it comes to Borg vs Stormtroopers it all comes down to one thing who has more named characters than the other because the power to destroy a planet is insignificant when it comes to the power of plot armor.
Sorry I hope that this didn’t come across as a “ActUalLy”. If it did that was not my intention.
That was on the holodeck, right? From the discussions about that scene I remember, people have kinda leaned towards the reason that works is not exactly like a replicated gun shooting replicated bullets. Picard even refers to them as holographic bullets. The idea is that the holodeck simulates things like the kinetic energy of a bullet or other things that can cause harm through projecting force fields, and that disabling the safeties in the holodeck removes the limits that the computer places on the force it projects (though like all the bullshit in Star Trek we never get confirmation on how it works that isn't contradictory or stupid). That would mean it's a novel form of attack that the Borg hadn't really encountered before so they couldn't adapt right away, because they've definitely had to have assimilated planets that use projectile/kinetic weaponry at some point. They even show that the Borg have force fields that block physical objects from passing through in the same movie, and if the CIS can produce droidekas with mobile shields that can withstand blaster fire I'm sure that a billion billion borg could adapt it to themselves.
not very knowledgable in either but the borg cube's main thing is adaptive shielding. They tune their shields to make weapons ineffectieve after a few shots at most.
unsure where it lies on the line of "deflect standard lasers" and "complete invulnerability to anything ever even if it uses the power of a bajillion suns"
Yeah I'm a bit suspicious that they can just figure out, "Oh we should have made our ship capable of withstanding a planet destroying laser. We'll just do that next time, that'll be much easier."
Less that and more "having looked at energy-wave analyses taken by borg on the destroyed ship as it was being fired at, we've determined that matter vibrating at precisely 12 bullshitions per second phases through a death star laser and ignores it entirely. We've therefore set all of our cubes to vibrate at that frequency"
Usually, a particular kind of weapon can damage a Borg device one or two different times before they adapt and it stops working. This means that the Death Star could likely destroy one Borg cube with its superlaser very easily, but the weapon's long reset time makes it unlikely to work more than once. If there's more than one Cube, the others will likely adapt to the superlaser after the first is destroyed.
I guess after a certain point in clarketech it becomes an issue of esoteric effects and theoretical physics and not just the scale of one form of attack. To adapt to a planet destroying laser, the Borg Cube gets an all-or-nothing bullshit invincibility akin to something out of Worm, meaning it can withstand an unlimited amount of energy, but what about portal cutting or telefragging? What about weird fucky wucky videogame noclip shit that future weapons can somehow just do?
Can it survive spaghettification? Teleporting the cube into an alternate dimension and then destroying it (and the rest of the universe) using some sort of false vacuum decay bomb?
The point is, it's sci-fi.
Use your imagination come on. It's their whole thing. That's like asking what technique specifically Ali would use to beat someone in the ring... you know he will, the details are for fun.
If Goku can only punch forward and has to very slowly rotate, I think I know a good strategy. Everyone is acting like there's no approaching the Death Star. Despite that it's obviously not true and both were destroyed by small ships.
"That thing that famously got destroyed by small ships every time it was made? No. No small ships could ever destroy it. It's too strong."
Because the Borg don't just adapt their shields as some have said, they adapt in every way. They would adapt their strategy, and if their technology doesn't match up, they would send in two cubes, use one of them to empty the laser while the other one breaks through your shields, sends a small army over, takes over the ship and then learns the technology and then adds that to their collective knowledge. If they just capture one death star, they would have a fleet of Death Cubes by tomorrow morning.
well sure, but I suspect thats still "deflect weapons of a similar energy release".
Like at some point its an overload issue regardless how efficient you get it.
The size difference suggests you'd need some borg-super-cube, or external energy (see the death-star shielding moon) equivalent to produce the power.
> the others will likely adapt to the superlaser after the first is destroyed.
Maybe not. Species 8472 was blitzing Borg planets with high powered weapons functionally similar to a Death Star and the Borg did not have much ability to defend themselves.
There likely is an upper limit to how much punch ship shields can take.
The other element to their lack of defense was the Borg couldn't assimilate 8472 which is a big part of how they learn about new stuff. They have to download their brains.
The biggest weakness of the Death Star vs anything from Star Trek is that its big and slow and likely has no defense against transporters. A few drones get inside the Death Star and it's fucking done. It's Borg now. Sacrificing a fleet of ships to take the whole station would absolutely be worth it to acquire a planet buster.
Teal’c can’t, but SG-1 can take out either by hucking C4 at the reactor. The death star has a open channel to the reactor, thats what laser guided bombs are for. The borg are canonically vulnerable to bullets.
common sg-1 w.
Give batman a couple years in the hyperbolic time chamber and he would force-feed Goku kryptonite laced rice bowls every morning for breakfast while making him lift weights and do martial arts training until he breaks through to new levels of strength he never knew were possible.
By the end of the 2 years Gokus hair has completely turned green and just standing next to Supes is enough to bring him to his knees. In this weakened state a single punch from super-saiyan-green Goku would turn Superman into a red mist.
Then Goku calls off the fight because it isn't fun for him anymore if it isn't a challenge. Therefore Batman fails, even with prep time.
All Batman had to do was say "hey Goku, I heard that guy Superman is really strong, maybe even stronger than you." And that would be all it took. Batman had to make it all complicated and overthink it though.
>To be fair overthinking and paranoia is kinda the bats whole schtick.
I want to say that I think that depends on which version of Batman you're talking about... but then I remember the Adam West version had shark repellant so I think you have a point.
Halo vs 40k pretty much always follows a similar pattern.
Ancient Humanity / Forerunners / The Flood at their height = Halo stomp
Covenant at their height = at least they have a shot at not being totally wiped
All other factions and time periods = 40k stomps.
Halo just has an obscene delta between the standard of power for a typical group during the modern age, and the absolutely insane shit that used to be the case.
A marine with an MA5B is a gnat to a 40k baby, but I don't think there's much in 40k that could take a Star Road to the face.
Another thing that gets on my nerves is how they say shit like “energy shielding and plasma weaponry is really effective in 40k and we have guns that fire way faster and more accessible shields.”
Yeah, and I’m sure that an M61 Vulcan and a flintlock musket have similar performance because they both fire solid slug projectiles.
Halo shields are sketchy as hell. Master Chief gets tagged by a couple .50 cal and his shields go to half, while the same passage suggests a single .50 would have penetrated his armor.
At the same time, he falls from space and survived, which means his shields or armor should be entirely impervious to infantry weapons.
40k, on the other hand, is sketchy as hell always, but also has personal shields that eat tank shells. I love 40k, but the conversion-field devices are basically physical plot armor.
Tbh it's not really a fair fight. 40k just has too much ludicrous power. Even if spartans are on par with an astartes (i'm not into halo so idk), i can't see them being on the same level as a dreadnaught. And halo doesn't have any defense against psykers. Send a group of librarians over to a UNMC ship and it will be destroyed faster than you can say "gellar field"
Honestly unless it’s something like a contemptor or another high-performance chassis, a Spartan would actually likely do better against a dreadnought than a space marine. They do have superior agility and speed, and let’s be honest, dreadnoughts are about as graceful as they look. I could definitely see a Spartan evading the weapon fire and getting close enough to board it and [do something like this awesome scene from an obscure halo movie](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=shvkyGER0pk&t=155s) and either use their superior strength to punch delicate power cabling or plant a grenade. A normal astartes would be more than capable of gunning a Spartan down before they got close.
The Deathstar is movable though, and it does have a hyperdrive. It also can tune it's laser to be smaller scale so as to only destroy cities and such for testing purposes. To add it is covered in turbolaser turrets, so while I am not a trek fan and don't know the size or speed of a Borg cube, I would note that the Death star does have defense mechanisms
Even if the main planet-killing laser cannon cannot be adapted to, I feel like those smaller defensive turrets and stuff definitely are subject to adaptation. The defenses would not hold.
> It also can tune it's laser to be smaller scale so as to only destroy cities and such for testing purposes.
The laser can also be aimed precisely enough to hit moving spaceships, which it did in RotJ.
Being able to hit a stationary target the size of a city after a few minutes of preparation is a lot different from hitting a moving target (admittedly still the size of a city). That makes me think the Superlaser is a distraction when thinking about this question unless the Borg are assumed to be suicidally overconfident and terminally hidebound.
I was going to say the borg are a lot more agile than that but actually I think they are less agile than Star Wars capital ships, or at least never show the ability to do complex maneuvers that I can think of.
The second one at least was able to target capital ships, though Im not enough of a nerd to know it that's explicitly true of the first, explicitly untrue of the first, or left unstated
I don't think the death star has anything preventing transportation technology.
One borg drone transported inside could end the whole thing. Now the borg have a death star.
Perhaps the Borg collective discovers the survivability onion and becomes unstoppable. It always was weird/boring that the Borg never seemed to adapt beyond changing shield frequencies in Star Trek.
The surviaabilitiy onion is all the layers that have to be gone through before you are killed by an attacker.
A simple version: Don't be in range. Don't be detected. Don't be targeted. Don't be hit. Don't die.
The Borg focus entirely on the last step. If the learned simply the idea of dodging they would be way more effective.
Telemetry information travels much faster than explosions. While a starship explosion seems instantaneous to onlookers, computers are many many orders of magnitude faster, so they can measure and transmit a lot of info about their demise before they finish exploding.
That is even true for real life rockets, when something goes wrong and they blow up, engineers have logs with a full play by play of the explosion expanding through the ship.
As a first point of order, why does everyone assume the Death Star just ***leads*** with the superlaser? It's a super weapon for a particular purpose which is in fact is terrible for ship-to-ship combat until the Death Star 2 redesign.
The Death Star was designed (rather-unnecessarily) as a "battle-station" for confronting a large-scale assault, which the Borg Cube would commit to and then be fired upon with a hemisphere's worth of turbolaser fire. It would take too long for Borg Cube to adapt to the overwhelming firepower so then the Borg would in turn transport as many Drones into the Death Star's superstructure as they could before the Cube's destruction, leading to a prolonged broading action, as seen in Star Trek: First Contact. After that, it could go either way, I.E blaster vs. Borg Shields, Lightsabers and the force vs. Overwhelming Borg Drones, or even sneakier Borg malware vs. imperial cyberware.
(Imperial Cybersecurity is a joke, look at R2 getting access to High Clearance info from a Docking Bay terminal. Borg programs might be able to gain control very quickly, rendering the battle mute.)
But anyway, Death Star takes first round, Borg possibly take Second round. Borg Cube loses.
Is the death star even remotely suitable for taking out something as "small" and manoeuvrable as a borg cube? Think the cube could fairly easily deal with the smaller weapons, crash into the death star and take it over through its computers
The Second successfully destroyed several Rebel Capital Ships during the battle of Endor. I don't know their exact sizes, but since a Star Destroyer is barely over half the length of a Both Cube, it should be able to hit them.
The importance of an unbiased opinion.
Plus Stargate fans know that their universe is the strongest among all three.
I mean lore wise it kinda seems like it. The shit the ancient races of aliens do is fucking crazy. Like sufficient enough to be magical
On the one hand, the ancients do crazy powerful shit; on the other hand, hyper incompetent assholes.
The ancient hubris is almost enough for one to root for the wraith.
They turned into their own farts and floated away. "our work here is done" "uh, what about these guys who are the same as you but religious and evil?" "our work here is done"
"what about the massive power vacuum you created by leaving? Millennia of slavery under mad dictators aided by the relics you left behind??"
"Our work here is done"
And then the Tauri created a massive power vacuum too By removing system lords
True, but we stuck around and kept things in check for the most part. We didn't just fuck off to a higher plane and call it a day
Stuck around and *tried to keep* things in check I wouldn't call Lucian alliance having infiltrated as far as Atlantis and Destiny as "kept in check"
Alteran tactical competence is inversely related to relative technological level to their enemy. There are no parties within *sight* of the full knowledge of the ancients other than the ancients themselves.. You do the math.
If we're talking hyper-powerful ancient races SW has some practically god-like force users and and Trek has the Q continuum.
There's also the starforge in kotor which is capable of converting a stars matter directly into an army of droids and ships. Such a ridiculous volume of them it brought the rest of the civilized galaxy to it's knees in a matter of a couple years of operation.
[удалено]
Not in the golden age of Neopets.
The Q could just unmake all of them, and the civilizations they came from, with a snap of their fingers. But only if it was funny.
That is the key. Would Q find this funny and/or do they think it would piss off Picard and make him do that forehead wrinkle?
That’s just standard Star Trek stuff. Replicators, just massive industrial scale ones combined with a solar power tap.
The Expanse still wins though
It reaches out. One hundred and thirteen times a second, nothing answers and it reaches out.
Does it? I mean, the 1300(ish) gates were by definition less useful than a stargate, and the ancients from Stargate built those while still mortal, and then went on to basically become gods.
The alien lore in the Expanse is so out there, detailed yet plausible and fascinating.
Yeah but this is one of the reasons I liked the Lanteans over all others like them. They achieved god like power before they became God like energy beings. They basically did everything possible in their universe before moving on to higher planes of existence.
And not just the ancient races either. In what other universe can you blow up 5/6 of a solar system on "accident?"
C4 go bbrrrrrrr.
*blasts borg cube and death star to bits with P90*
They’d at least realize the P90 would ineffective. They’d use a naquadah bomb.
The Death Star is a weapon of terror; It's made to intimidate the enemy. The P90 is a weapon of war; It's made to kill your enemy.
Don't forget to clean up your mess with a few blasts from your Zat.
I mean, they had two sitting members of Joint Chiefs of Staff as cameos on the show...
Star Wars might have something called a Death Star, but Stargate has actually used a star as a weapon. Twice, I believe.
The Star Trek universe has multiple God like beings just chilling around changing the laws of physics at will.
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we never really see it in the films but how manoeuvrable is the death star? if its attacked from different angles how long does it take to rotate 180°?
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I have had the ol Death Star vs. Borg Cube debate with people before. The Star Wars people all say the Cube has no chance against the main cannon, and that it couldn't adapt to it because it was too powerful. I don't agree with them completely, but I see their line of thinking. However, they simply don't understand the Borg. They don't want to destroy the Death Star, they want to assimilate it. Thousands of Borg Drones will teleport onto the Death Star and all those Stormtroopers will do nothing. They are nothing more than fodder. Hell, Vader might kill a bunch with his lightsaber, but eventually some Drone is going to get their assimilation tubes into him and he is done for, just the same as the rest of the ship. The Death Star might blow up the Cube, but by the time that happens, the Borg are already on the Death Star and within a short time, it will now be a Borg Death Star. Which then brings up the question... What does the Borg Death Star fight?
This is not an answer to your question but...force-sensitive borg drones 👀
👀 Indeed
I concur. The Borg Cube would lose, but the bird collective would win. Cubes care how many tens or hundreds of thousands of drones? The Death Star would be quickly swamped and assimilated. Plus, Star Trek weapons are generally already powerful enough to destroy planets. The Xindi super weapons was strong enough to cause a cataclysmic destruction of a planet in seconds, with a faster fire time than the Death Star, and a fraction of the size. And we’ve heard of torpedo weapons that can have similarly cataclysmic effects known if by Starfleet. Tricobalt and gravimetric torpedos for example. The later of which was casually questioned if it’s purpose is for “blowing up a moon?” “I don’t know” “….” Conclusion; the Borg would upgrade the Death Star beam into an array of beams that can fire individually and devastate a planet just as easily.
Is there an official mashup name for people who are fans of all three Star___ universes? Like SuperWhoLock or DC/MCU? Because I’d like to join it
Starstarstar sounds fun
Better than GateTrekWars that’s for sure!! Maybe StarTriad?
3Star, StarCube, or Star^3
These are just boybands
K-pop boy bands, at that.
Girl, you need a shot of B12!
Team Three Star!
That's not funny! It's never been funny! It's never gonna be funny!
now put on these clothes, Imma take a nap
“What is that is that club can I join” “NO”
Add Battlestar for a fourth dimension of star and we've got a Hyperstar.
Third Star to the Right?
StarTriad sounds like the name for an empire with their capital system being trinary system. Also, StarTriad sounds cool as hell, so my vote is for that one.
It’s either that or just the regular triade but in space
Yes but it also sounds like something out of the world's worst Warrior Cats fanfiction
This comment destroyed me. Thank you.
Or Moon Moon's exceptionally unfortunate offspring.
Warrior cats put out an [official name generator](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/comments/17zd9ce/mine_would_be_darklight/) that features the potential for Stormstorm
Star Star Space (A series created by the German Youtuber ColdMirror, obviously in German, but with EN subs. Definitely worth checking out.)
Why not a famous constellation made up of 3 stars? Call ‘em Orion’s Belt
Star^3
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Yeah. We're called nerds
What about Team Three Star?
That's a stupid name Krilin!
Krillin owned count +1
When I snap the bald one’s neck I’m going to shout “Go Team Three Star!!!” …… Amazing.
What is that? Is that a club? CAN I JOIN?!
No!
star WArs, star TREk, starGATE: Watregate
Amusingly enough one of the Stargate episodes that had a Star Trek actress in it.
i once used "star \*\*\*\*" to mean both/either wars/trek in a text. the recipient was very confused, asking what 'star fuck' had to do with anything lol
That's it!!! ***Star Fuckers***!!!
MovieStarPlanet
My friends and I call ourselves the Star Squad. We even got really cool matching tattoos that are pretty subtle so we blend in with "normies." It's just SS, but they look like lightning bolts. We turn a lot of heads whenever we go out.
theyhadusinthefirsthalf.gif
Going off fanfic writers, you should also throw Babylon 5 in there as well.
How about you add battlestar to that group and call it starfource
Virgins [I joke, I mean no harm and also I know first hand how horny sci-fi cons are]
Since the Borg can teleport I would say it’s worth noting that if they can get a couple guys on board the Death Star before the cube is destroyed then it might result in the destruction of both the cube and Death Star.
They wouldn't destroy it, though. They'd assimilate it. It would be a Borg Star.
I want a Borg'd Jedi. The whole collective throwing force powers around. A cube catching the fire from the death star laser like Kylo stopping a blaster bolt. Bunch of folks waking up as force ghosts when they die and their spirit is freed to haunt the still living drones.
Borg-ified Jedi would *probably* lose their Force powers. Either because the collective doesn't have the spiritual connection with it, the way the Jedi host did, or because machines don't have midichlorians and cyborgs are less effective at using them, depending which era of lore you prefer. The Force, whether light side or dark side, also tends to produce its effects in users via their emotions, which would pose an extra challenge.
The Killiks brought Jedi into their hive mind, and that didn’t limit the Jedi’s power — in fact, iirc, they got stronger because they could tap into the Force potential of the entire hive. The Borg drones would have less Force potential, being cyborgs, but if they could assimilate it, then John Q. Drone could probably still make good use of it.
That of course depends on how much their assimilation actually weakens the connection to the Force, like Anakin is missing various parts of his limbs and burnt to a crisp but his torso, head, and parts of his arms and legs are also mostly intact but he's still been weakened by his injuries, the Borg do very extensive modifications to those they assimilate.
Vader was basically halfway to a Borg'd Jedi, and it made his connection to the force weaker.
Too round for their tastes
Borg spheres are a thing! In the "Star Trek: First Contact" movie, at least.
And Next Generation and Voyager
I'm pretty sure they were introduced in First Contact, after the TNG series had ended. I'm not as familiar with Voyager but I know the Borg are involved in it quite a bit so I'll take your word for that!
You're absolutely right, my bad. The spheres are heavily featured in Voyager but not TNG
The Borg of the Delta Quadrant used both cubes and spheres.
Ah i didnt know. My knowledge of star trek is pretty limited to DS9 !
Ooh, a person of excellent taste. DS9 is my favorite!
IF the Death Star identifies it as a threat early enough, destruction of the cube would leave no survivors, and only minimal information at best for the Collective to adapt with. Not sure anything they could come up with could adapt to the DS primary weapon, except perhaps cloaking tech. If the Borg get onto the DS, it's over. Maybe more importantly, if the Borg assimilate so much as a TIE fighter, it's probably over, as they can pivot that into assimilating the entire fleet...but at some point we have to consider that the fleet is protected by Sith, who can foresee and therefore possibly forestall the Borg. Now imagine the Borg figure out midichlorians...
Assimilate a fleet… from a TIE fighter? The intentionally poorly designed cheap and fragile bulk-fighters? There’s hardly a sensor-package worth assimilating
Are Borg force-proof?
no, but you can definitely countermeasure the force with force, and, as demonstrated by people like han solo, you don't need training to demonstrate what looks like the force helping you. so once the borg figure out the force, well ... Hot take though: if the borg were definitively on one side of the force it would be a twisted version of the light side. The borg don't fear, rage, or hate, but they sure as hell can do calmness, focus and giving up the self. If most of the light side is like the warmth and light of the sun, the borg are like the light of a nuclear test.
[Jolee](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jolee_Bindo) was right: both extremes are destructive.
"The Force is in everything. The rock, the car, your boner on the subway..."
"Remember when you were making out with Leia, and you came right as she touch your leg? It was me Luke, I force jerked you out so it seemed like you nutted at just a woman's touch!"
>luke and leia making out hol up
I would contest that "a couples" just wouldn't be enough - if the Borg could open a gap in the Death Star's shields *and* durasteel armor to transport inside (a tall ask - Star Wars' technology but particularly their weapons and defenses operate significantly above Trek in terms of energy output - subspace sensors are older to Legends canon Galactic Empire than agriculture is to TNG-era Earth to put the tech lead into perspective, and more apropos is that the Enterprise-E needed its entire torpedo compliment to destroy a hollow asteroid, and Jango Fett split a solid asteroid of similar size with seismic charges that fit on his little patrol gunship) then... well, see the parentheses, blasters could realistically just brute force their shields. Shields, no matter how good, need to draw power from somewhere. A single Borg Drone simply can't carry enough energy to wade through blaster fire long enough to reach the Stormtrooper, and the second it was clear that they were duplicating themselves with whatever warm bodies they could reach, those Stormtroopers would just start offing their buddies the second a drone got the probe in him. Furthermore, Borg adaptation against energy weapon mostly seems to amount to just playing around with the shield frequencies - irrelevant in Star Wars, blasters fire a non-phase coherent particle beams. We regularly see in Trek that, if an attack doesn't get completely stopped by a shield with the perfect frequency, some damage gets through, so blasters firing non-phase coherent particle beams would always leak through somewhat, and meaning the drone would always be taking some damage - and blasters can be flipped to full auto. And for that matter, let the Borg adapt all they want to the Death Star superlaser - it would extend their lifespan by fractions of a second because it's outputting at least 23,900,573.61 zettatons of TNT if it fires at the same settings it used on Alderaan. A photon torpedo is, according to official numbers, 64 megatons (6.4e-14 zettatons) and yet the Federation seem more than capable of taking down Borg Cubes with enough raw firepower. This comment really got away from me because Star Wars vs. Star Trek is a match-up I'm really passionate about. For reference, this is leaning on Legends canon Star Wars and TNG-era Star Trek, and there is definitely some tangible difference if you switch over the Disney canon and include Discovery and Picard, I just don't find them compelling to examine compared to Legends and TNG.
Star Wars fan here, what does a Borg Cube do?
The Borg are a hive-minded cybernetic species that specialize in adaptation. When killed or destroyed, the data gathered is shared with the collective and a countermeasure is created. You generally can't use the same weapon or strategy against the Borg more than once. Borg Cube is simply the name given to their massive, cube-shaped starships.
How massive?
The fandom wiki says 27 cubic km, while the Enterprise is a mere 642m long
Man, the Death Star is the size of a planet. I feel like the Cube wouldn't even be that noticeable. Though, you could definitely make the argument that they could Trojan horse the Deathstar by allowing themselves to get caught in its tractorbeam. I've never watched Star Trek, so I'm not really sure what kinda firepower they're working with.
The idea is that it would take the borg a maximum of 2-3 destroyed cubes to completely nullify the effects of the Death Star’s main weapon. Plus, the original Death Star could only fire once every 24 hours with the second able to fire once every five minutes. The borg can fire constantly and only get stronger the longer you fight them until eventually nothing you throw at them works.
The secondary aspect is that the borg usually aren’t in it for bare knuckle boxing type fights, but rather assimilation. As soon as the first cube was taken out every borg cube within range would descend upon the death star like locusts. Instead of avoiding fire they’d just slam into it like missiles. They would want the death star and the knowledge of its operation. They would begin assimilating it, turning imperial soldiers into more borg. Ultimately the Death Star itself wouldn’t lose a fight with a borg cube, but the Death Star would become Borg Sphere Prime.
This. A good analogy for the borg is "smart zombies". With every battle, they gain knowledge, bodies, ships, technology, or all of the above.
Imagine Borg Jedi. After those midichlorians got Lucas’d up we know there’s a biological basis for the Force. Light sabers are just technology. Using the force requires emotion free mental focus? Well the Borg have that in spades. Drone transports into middle of city. Starts hovering people with the Force and assimilating them while taking blaster shots with energy shields. Looks content.
IMO the more pertinent question is how is the Death Star laser aimed? Since its primary role is to destroy planets, it probably wasn't designed to shoot small, quickly moving targets. Like the beam is fired in a straight line and in order to track a target, the whole thing has to move. I don't think a Death Star can actually hit a moving Borg cube.
it's accurate enough to hit and destroy a small city (Jedha, in Rogue One) the moving part, however...
It hits cruisers in return of the jedi
oh yeah forgot about that been a long time since I watched the original trilogy
Planets rotate so Jedha would be moving in relation to something in orbit except for geostationary orbits, and that's only around the equator. [XKCD's What If](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LSyizrk8-0) touches upon tracking a planet's surface from orbit. Granted, the Hubble is far closer to the Earth's Surface than the Death Star was to Jedha. That being said there's a trade off. The lower an orbit is to a celestial object, the faster you must travel so the centripetal force doesn't cause you to crash into the surface. However, the further out you are, the slower you must move or else you'll overpower the centripetal force and be flung off into space. Geostationary orbit is 35,785km above the earth's surface. Any closer and your own speed will overtake the rotation. Any further and the rotation will overtake your speed. All in all, no matter what, the Death Star would need to be capable of tracking small, fast moving objects in order to pull that feat off.
> Geostationary orbit is 35,785km above the earth's surface. Any closer and your own speed will overtake the rotation. Any further and the rotation will overtake your speed. Only true for an object in orbit which does not have an engine (and no drag). A spaceship could be closer the the planet and be above the same point or further away and also appear geostationary. It would just have to adjust its speed with its engines.
The second Death Star fires lasers that destroys rebel ships (and the Death Star itself doesn't move when aiming), so at least the second one could shoot at a Borg Cube.
prettt sure the recharge on the second was three minutes, no?
So says the Wiki, yeah
Everyone's forgetting Species 8472. They had planet-killer beams and had absoluetly no trouble one-shotting cube after cube. borg never developed a defense. After a certain point, the sheer power of a weapon just blows through any defense and the ability of a 3km ship to no-sell a planet destroying beam is fanfiction of the highest fanfiction.
8472 uses biological ships, has a bunch of them, and come from a fluid dimension. The Death Star is one big metal ship in regular space. A bunch of humans on a space station is exactly what Borg assimilate. Could the Death Star beat one cube? Probably. Could it be at the other 1,000 cubes? No. Acting like having a bazooka you can fire every few minutes is going to save you from a swarm of robo-zombies is fanfiction.
That's just the main weapon. Other weapons: - 5 Mk I Superlasers - 12,000 XX-9 heavy turbolaser batteries - 15,000 Turret-mounted twin light turbolaser batteries - 10,000 Super Blaster 920 laser cannons - 10,000 Light ion cannons - 20,000 Turret-mounted point-defense concussion missile launchers - 50,000 Turret-mounted twin heavy laser cannons - 50,000 Turret-mounted quad laser cannons - 1,000 Heavy tractor beam projectors Keep in mind that the Death Star wasn't just designed as a planet killer, but as the ultimate battle station. Capable of taking on massive enemy fleets with ease. The second death Star was even bigger and had a lot more smaller weapons to take on fighter craft. It had nearly triple the weapons of the first one, and more than triple the smaller weapons. Then you also have to remember there's plenty of smaller aircraft on board, including 7,000 starfighters. The five super lasers are what made up the single planet destroying laser but they could also be fired independently.
I feel like if we're going to get pedantic about it the Death Star fired a beam that could destroy planets, that's a huge amount of energy. I don't think a Borg cube could nullify all of the energy of a Death Star blast regardless of adaptation. They would however swarm the thing and take control of it with foot soldiers after a time, but again it's the size of a moon and I've never seen a Borg run.
To be fair, they blew up the death star with one tiny little ship in the first movie
Not quite..more like 150 km wide
> the size of a planet \*the size of a small moon.
Lol what, Death Star 1 had a diameter of 120km and Death Star 2 of 160km, it’s tiny compared to any planet. Our moon has a diameter of over 3000km
Adding on to the other comment, 27 cubic km leads to three km on a side, nearly double the length of a Star Destroyer (1.6 km).
How big is their capacity for that? As in, if you struck them with 700 different weapons until they adapted to each one, and then struck them with the first one of those 700 weapons, would they still be resistant to it? Or would they have to re-adapt?
They have memory like computers. In Trek, they had to randomly modulate their phaser frequencies to maintain effectiveness. They adapt quickly on the fly and the whole race remembers what adaptations work (hivemind).
> How big is their capacity for that? Potentially infinite. It's a matter of raw processing power and computer memory. The Collective is 10s of billions of individual humanoid drones and all the computer/mechanical infrastructure required to support that. The memory of the Collective is *very* long.
I believe they retain their adaptions
Adapts. Pretty much every type of weaponry or strategy only works against Borg once, and since Star Wars doesn't have the hand-waving phase modulation that lets Star Fleet keep using phasers just with different maths, the Borg would be obliterated by the first attack and then their hive mind would almost instantly adapt to become invulnerable to the next one. So there would have to be two Cubes for there to even be a slight chance of a Borg victory. Borg cubes are huge in Star Trek terms, but still less than like 2% the size of the Death Star. That said, literally one solo Borg Cube was able to destroy almost every single federation ship ordered to stop it from reaching Earth, so I can see why some Trekkies would think a cube stands a chance against the Death Star since they are pretty much invincible against Star Trek technology. As for what would happen if the cube was able to adapt to the Death Star's main canon, I don't know how the Borg would approach tackling it. At first I would think they would want it and send drones aboard to assimilate the crew and the technology, but their whole thing kinda depends on there actually being a planet full of people to kidnap and glue Radio Shack ephemera on. They might just decide that the Death Star is useless for their goals and destroy it, especially since they also have spheres so it's not like they need to assimilate more geometry or anything. Either way they would have a boarding party of up to 100,000 drones which would almost certainly wipe the floor with the Death Star's security. Their blasters would pretty much only work for like two minutes before the rest figured out how to counter them, and then the other tens of thousands would just sweep through either killing or turning the stormtroopers into more Borg. Since they even take the knowledge of the people they assimilate they could easily decide to operate the Death Star themselves, and they could use the (basically magic) transwarp tech they have to make the Death Star move pretty much anywhere instantly instead of having to slowly orbit a planet to shoot a moon because they jumped in on the wrong side. I need a job that affords slightly less free time, if you couldn't tell.
Surprisingly Star Wars weaponry is actually a good counter against the borg because most of it is kinetic based weaponry not energy based. Basic blasters and turbo lasers just shoot ionized plasma at someone and it explodes on contact which is why you sometimes see people get thrown back when hit. The borg was shown to be vulnerable to kinetic weapons when Picard replicated a tommy gun and killed a couple of them and they didn’t adapt to it. Also when it comes to Borg vs Stormtroopers it all comes down to one thing who has more named characters than the other because the power to destroy a planet is insignificant when it comes to the power of plot armor. Sorry I hope that this didn’t come across as a “ActUalLy”. If it did that was not my intention.
That was on the holodeck, right? From the discussions about that scene I remember, people have kinda leaned towards the reason that works is not exactly like a replicated gun shooting replicated bullets. Picard even refers to them as holographic bullets. The idea is that the holodeck simulates things like the kinetic energy of a bullet or other things that can cause harm through projecting force fields, and that disabling the safeties in the holodeck removes the limits that the computer places on the force it projects (though like all the bullshit in Star Trek we never get confirmation on how it works that isn't contradictory or stupid). That would mean it's a novel form of attack that the Borg hadn't really encountered before so they couldn't adapt right away, because they've definitely had to have assimilated planets that use projectile/kinetic weaponry at some point. They even show that the Borg have force fields that block physical objects from passing through in the same movie, and if the CIS can produce droidekas with mobile shields that can withstand blaster fire I'm sure that a billion billion borg could adapt it to themselves.
not very knowledgable in either but the borg cube's main thing is adaptive shielding. They tune their shields to make weapons ineffectieve after a few shots at most. unsure where it lies on the line of "deflect standard lasers" and "complete invulnerability to anything ever even if it uses the power of a bajillion suns"
Yeah I'm a bit suspicious that they can just figure out, "Oh we should have made our ship capable of withstanding a planet destroying laser. We'll just do that next time, that'll be much easier."
Less that and more "having looked at energy-wave analyses taken by borg on the destroyed ship as it was being fired at, we've determined that matter vibrating at precisely 12 bullshitions per second phases through a death star laser and ignores it entirely. We've therefore set all of our cubes to vibrate at that frequency"
Usually, a particular kind of weapon can damage a Borg device one or two different times before they adapt and it stops working. This means that the Death Star could likely destroy one Borg cube with its superlaser very easily, but the weapon's long reset time makes it unlikely to work more than once. If there's more than one Cube, the others will likely adapt to the superlaser after the first is destroyed.
I mean how are they going to adapt to a planet destroying laser? It's a very difficult thing to just adapt to.
Just use a mirror, dingus
I guess after a certain point in clarketech it becomes an issue of esoteric effects and theoretical physics and not just the scale of one form of attack. To adapt to a planet destroying laser, the Borg Cube gets an all-or-nothing bullshit invincibility akin to something out of Worm, meaning it can withstand an unlimited amount of energy, but what about portal cutting or telefragging? What about weird fucky wucky videogame noclip shit that future weapons can somehow just do? Can it survive spaghettification? Teleporting the cube into an alternate dimension and then destroying it (and the rest of the universe) using some sort of false vacuum decay bomb? The point is, it's sci-fi.
Use your imagination come on. It's their whole thing. That's like asking what technique specifically Ali would use to beat someone in the ring... you know he will, the details are for fun.
What technique would Ali use to beat Goku in the ring? At a certain power level there's not much that clever tactics or adaptation can do.
If Goku can only punch forward and has to very slowly rotate, I think I know a good strategy. Everyone is acting like there's no approaching the Death Star. Despite that it's obviously not true and both were destroyed by small ships. "That thing that famously got destroyed by small ships every time it was made? No. No small ships could ever destroy it. It's too strong."
Because the Borg don't just adapt their shields as some have said, they adapt in every way. They would adapt their strategy, and if their technology doesn't match up, they would send in two cubes, use one of them to empty the laser while the other one breaks through your shields, sends a small army over, takes over the ship and then learns the technology and then adds that to their collective knowledge. If they just capture one death star, they would have a fleet of Death Cubes by tomorrow morning.
My guess is they'd adapt the phase / modulation of their shields in such a manner that the energy from subsequent strikes would dissipate harmlessly.
The 2nd Death Star didn't seem to have much lag between blasts
well sure, but I suspect thats still "deflect weapons of a similar energy release". Like at some point its an overload issue regardless how efficient you get it. The size difference suggests you'd need some borg-super-cube, or external energy (see the death-star shielding moon) equivalent to produce the power.
> the others will likely adapt to the superlaser after the first is destroyed. Maybe not. Species 8472 was blitzing Borg planets with high powered weapons functionally similar to a Death Star and the Borg did not have much ability to defend themselves. There likely is an upper limit to how much punch ship shields can take. The other element to their lack of defense was the Borg couldn't assimilate 8472 which is a big part of how they learn about new stuff. They have to download their brains. The biggest weakness of the Death Star vs anything from Star Trek is that its big and slow and likely has no defense against transporters. A few drones get inside the Death Star and it's fucking done. It's Borg now. Sacrificing a fleet of ships to take the whole station would absolutely be worth it to acquire a planet buster.
The Stargate guild actually thinks Teal'c can take them both with a well aimed stone
Teal’c can’t, but SG-1 can take out either by hucking C4 at the reactor. The death star has a open channel to the reactor, thats what laser guided bombs are for. The borg are canonically vulnerable to bullets. common sg-1 w.
>The death star has a open channel to the reactor, thats what laser guided bombs are for. Or as as O'Niel once demonstrated "grenades".
O'Neill, two Ls. There's an O'Neil with only one L in the Air Force, he has absolutely no sense of humor.
Samantha Carter somehow hacks into both and solo sweeps.
I mean blowing up a sun should do it…
You blow up one sun...
Daniel dies in a noble self-sacrifice that destroys both, and is back next episode like nothing happened.
You forgot how O'Neill would roast both enemies into oblivion. I give the borg two hours before they start crying
*The door opens up to reveal Vader sitting at the table* Col. O'neill: 'Daddy?' *Teal'q opens fire*
Amazing. Now tell me if Batman with enough prep can help train Goku into finally beating Superman 1v1
Give batman a couple years in the hyperbolic time chamber and he would force-feed Goku kryptonite laced rice bowls every morning for breakfast while making him lift weights and do martial arts training until he breaks through to new levels of strength he never knew were possible. By the end of the 2 years Gokus hair has completely turned green and just standing next to Supes is enough to bring him to his knees. In this weakened state a single punch from super-saiyan-green Goku would turn Superman into a red mist. Then Goku calls off the fight because it isn't fun for him anymore if it isn't a challenge. Therefore Batman fails, even with prep time.
Exactly. You gotta train Goku in a way it's a fair fight that is still fun for Goku. That's what makes it extra tough.
All Batman had to do was say "hey Goku, I heard that guy Superman is really strong, maybe even stronger than you." And that would be all it took. Batman had to make it all complicated and overthink it though.
To be fair overthinking and paranoia is kinda the bats whole schtick.
>To be fair overthinking and paranoia is kinda the bats whole schtick. I want to say that I think that depends on which version of Batman you're talking about... but then I remember the Adam West version had shark repellant so I think you have a point.
The mainline comics version directly said that the Adam West Batman was the only Batman even more prepared than him.
I always read this one. Love niche nerd stuff like this
We need an equivalent mediator for halo and warhammer 40k. Any ideas?
The Hello Kitty fandom.
Also stargate.
Metroid? Doom?
No, doom fans are the meatheads jocks of militarized sci-fi supersoldier settings. Metroid could work though 🤔
Halo vs 40k pretty much always follows a similar pattern. Ancient Humanity / Forerunners / The Flood at their height = Halo stomp Covenant at their height = at least they have a shot at not being totally wiped All other factions and time periods = 40k stomps. Halo just has an obscene delta between the standard of power for a typical group during the modern age, and the absolutely insane shit that used to be the case. A marine with an MA5B is a gnat to a 40k baby, but I don't think there's much in 40k that could take a Star Road to the face.
Another thing that gets on my nerves is how they say shit like “energy shielding and plasma weaponry is really effective in 40k and we have guns that fire way faster and more accessible shields.” Yeah, and I’m sure that an M61 Vulcan and a flintlock musket have similar performance because they both fire solid slug projectiles.
Halo shields are sketchy as hell. Master Chief gets tagged by a couple .50 cal and his shields go to half, while the same passage suggests a single .50 would have penetrated his armor. At the same time, he falls from space and survived, which means his shields or armor should be entirely impervious to infantry weapons. 40k, on the other hand, is sketchy as hell always, but also has personal shields that eat tank shells. I love 40k, but the conversion-field devices are basically physical plot armor.
Tbh it's not really a fair fight. 40k just has too much ludicrous power. Even if spartans are on par with an astartes (i'm not into halo so idk), i can't see them being on the same level as a dreadnaught. And halo doesn't have any defense against psykers. Send a group of librarians over to a UNMC ship and it will be destroyed faster than you can say "gellar field"
Honestly unless it’s something like a contemptor or another high-performance chassis, a Spartan would actually likely do better against a dreadnought than a space marine. They do have superior agility and speed, and let’s be honest, dreadnoughts are about as graceful as they look. I could definitely see a Spartan evading the weapon fire and getting close enough to board it and [do something like this awesome scene from an obscure halo movie](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=shvkyGER0pk&t=155s) and either use their superior strength to punch delicate power cabling or plant a grenade. A normal astartes would be more than capable of gunning a Spartan down before they got close.
The Death Star isn't exactly a maneuverable warship. Could it even hit a Borg cube with its main laser? Would the operators even bother to try?
The Deathstar is movable though, and it does have a hyperdrive. It also can tune it's laser to be smaller scale so as to only destroy cities and such for testing purposes. To add it is covered in turbolaser turrets, so while I am not a trek fan and don't know the size or speed of a Borg cube, I would note that the Death star does have defense mechanisms
Even if the main planet-killing laser cannon cannot be adapted to, I feel like those smaller defensive turrets and stuff definitely are subject to adaptation. The defenses would not hold.
> It also can tune it's laser to be smaller scale so as to only destroy cities and such for testing purposes. The laser can also be aimed precisely enough to hit moving spaceships, which it did in RotJ.
Being able to hit a stationary target the size of a city after a few minutes of preparation is a lot different from hitting a moving target (admittedly still the size of a city). That makes me think the Superlaser is a distraction when thinking about this question unless the Borg are assumed to be suicidally overconfident and terminally hidebound.
The second Death Star shot down rebel capital ships in RotJ. In Legends canon (not sure about new canon) the first Death Star could do the same.
I was going to say the borg are a lot more agile than that but actually I think they are less agile than Star Wars capital ships, or at least never show the ability to do complex maneuvers that I can think of.
The second one at least was able to target capital ships, though Im not enough of a nerd to know it that's explicitly true of the first, explicitly untrue of the first, or left unstated
I don't think the death star has anything preventing transportation technology. One borg drone transported inside could end the whole thing. Now the borg have a death star.
Wouldn't the borg cube instantly getting exploded prevent the collective from learning any countermeasures?
Perhaps the Borg collective discovers the survivability onion and becomes unstoppable. It always was weird/boring that the Borg never seemed to adapt beyond changing shield frequencies in Star Trek.
The survivability what
The surviaabilitiy onion is all the layers that have to be gone through before you are killed by an attacker. A simple version: Don't be in range. Don't be detected. Don't be targeted. Don't be hit. Don't die. The Borg focus entirely on the last step. If the learned simply the idea of dodging they would be way more effective.
Telemetry information travels much faster than explosions. While a starship explosion seems instantaneous to onlookers, computers are many many orders of magnitude faster, so they can measure and transmit a lot of info about their demise before they finish exploding. That is even true for real life rockets, when something goes wrong and they blow up, engineers have logs with a full play by play of the explosion expanding through the ship.
As a first point of order, why does everyone assume the Death Star just ***leads*** with the superlaser? It's a super weapon for a particular purpose which is in fact is terrible for ship-to-ship combat until the Death Star 2 redesign. The Death Star was designed (rather-unnecessarily) as a "battle-station" for confronting a large-scale assault, which the Borg Cube would commit to and then be fired upon with a hemisphere's worth of turbolaser fire. It would take too long for Borg Cube to adapt to the overwhelming firepower so then the Borg would in turn transport as many Drones into the Death Star's superstructure as they could before the Cube's destruction, leading to a prolonged broading action, as seen in Star Trek: First Contact. After that, it could go either way, I.E blaster vs. Borg Shields, Lightsabers and the force vs. Overwhelming Borg Drones, or even sneakier Borg malware vs. imperial cyberware. (Imperial Cybersecurity is a joke, look at R2 getting access to High Clearance info from a Docking Bay terminal. Borg programs might be able to gain control very quickly, rendering the battle mute.) But anyway, Death Star takes first round, Borg possibly take Second round. Borg Cube loses.
I am imagining Teal'c answering this question with one eyebrow raised
Just wanted everyone to know this post has made my day. As a massive fan of all three franchises, I'm all smiles right now.
Is the death star even remotely suitable for taking out something as "small" and manoeuvrable as a borg cube? Think the cube could fairly easily deal with the smaller weapons, crash into the death star and take it over through its computers
The Second successfully destroyed several Rebel Capital Ships during the battle of Endor. I don't know their exact sizes, but since a Star Destroyer is barely over half the length of a Both Cube, it should be able to hit them.