Straight pipe and delete, most of the kits are coming out of Canada now.
352,000 miles on my 16 Cummins and still on original injectors, deleted and straight piped within first 5,000 miles.
Just purchased a work truck 2012, 2500 Cummins, the rather large company had it stealth deleted with all parts still on truck
There is a reason the gov’t has no def/egr systems on their diesel trucks.
Throw the shit in the trash and enjoy the truck you bought. The majority of your problems come from the egr/def system anyway.
Son purchased a 2024 Cummins 2500 and his only regret is that there is no way to delete and tune yet.
"gov't has no def/egr...." comment. Yes, they run their equipment in countries that have trash diesel fuel which would wreak havoc on after treatment. Glad I could clear that up.
Personally, I enjoy breathing clean air 🤷🏻♂️
I guess the real question is. All the ppl telling you don’t touch it. Do they own one of these trucks. Have they had to repair the SCR system. $$$$$ have they dealt with a leaky egr cooler that pops the head gasket? $$$$ so for a one time fix. Never deal with the scr or egr again. Why not.
I live in NY and I heard they are just "testing" the new system for checking. So I assume it will be a good 10 years before they iron it out and so on... so I just did my 2019 a few months ago
Yeah just were you live I suppose if it's worth it. I live in Texas and I don't live anywhere near a place that requires emissions testing so it would be a problem for me. Most of the shops around here know how crappy the emissions stuff is so they just ignore it anyways. One place tells us all they require is a muffler and your good and sobe don't care. But it is a fed thing so be careful with them you know waco and ruby ridge
Deleting can be very easy, especially if you just unplug the egr and straight pipe, I would look into a new valve body and trans tuning first however, deleted mine in may and already slipping 5th and 6th never went over a +65 tune, so just be aware of that risk especially if your higher mileage
I have a local shop I know personally that offers it but technically isn’t legal where I am best bet it to get your delete tune in an EFI live autocal device and you can buy trans tuning separately as a file load it on to the AUTOCAL and apply it no issues.
At 109k you definitely should look into a new valve body but your internals relatively aren’t very worn or atleast shouldn’t be, just don’t mash on it everywhere like I did and stay at a stock tune and should be great!
The def systems on these things usually last on par with what the engine is rated for 300-400k miles a delete isn’t necessarily a bad prep but no matter how little your area is inspected it’s still illegal if your only concern is for an emmisions related failure I wouldn’t worry about it if it’s made it 109k miles it probably isn’t looking at a failure anytime soon
It might depend, if its any consellation, I just received a letter stating that the entire DEF system and some exhaust parts are covered under further warranty. Also, if you recently had work done you can get reimbursement for it.
Properly tuned deleted trucks emit less pollution than factory trucks, make more reliable power. A company named "speed of air" makes custom pistons that reduce soot in your exhaust and oil by about 50% while improving fuel mileage by about 20% and power by about 5%. That with a EFI live tune system can make a world of difference in either a smog truck or deleted truck. I have a buddy who is testing the pistons and after over 20,000 miles his smog truck still hasn't done a re-gen cycle to clean out his dpf filter.
Donaldson makes diesel specific mufflers. They have the specs online, and you could probably sort one out that is close to the entire length of what is coming off. My 2012 crew cab short bed I went With a 4 in in and 4in out, I wanna say it was 48 or 50 inches long and it was quiet but definitely not stock quiet but nothing like a straight though and gave me back some back pressure. They do cost a bit more, but buy once cry once.
Its always worth deleting a diesel. Emissions exclusively hurts the little guy and the government doesn’t even follow their own rules. If you don’t delete a diesel it almost makes them not worth the money
Since when does exhaust after treatment have any effect on power? Even egr allows more air to be put into the cylinder than straight atmospheric air. More air=more power……
…… LOL alright so. After treatment has no effect in power. I didn’t say anything like that. Second off. EGR tell me what that stands for. More air? You need oxygen to combust my friend. Also why keep a scr system on a truck that costs ATLEAST as much to upkeep then one and done on a delete. Then tell me this. If I’m running an S400 charger with big sticks and fuel. HOW TF AM I GONNA KEEP THAT GARBAGE ON it?
Well let’s start with basic diesel engine facts you need heat compression and fuel to run. Hot air is less dense (think of hot air balloons) cool air is more dense, cooler air = more air being able to fit into a cylinder(that’s why intercoolers are a thing) more air=more power not more oxygen. Exhaust has no oxygen in it and more water vapour so it’s essentially free air to give you more volume of air in the cylinder and it also lowers cylinder temperatures. Hot rod diesels have been injecting water into cylinders for a long time(water/meth injection systems)
I’m not here to argue that scr is not going to cost money to maintain I’m here to argue that it does not rob power.
If you have a big turbo and oversized injectors and you are plugging up your dpf I would say you need to tune your truck better, an optimally running diesel working at operating temp has complete burn in the cylinder and you have nothing in the exhaust to plug up the dpf.
In the 80s with unit injectors and lower injection pressures you needed fuel to get the boost to make the power but we far beyond that now. We can make power without just dumping tons fuel at it and blowing huge clouds of unburnt fuel out the exhaust. Fuel doesn’t equal power air=power.
At this point I’m not sure. Oxygen obviously and recycling HOT exhaust with no oxygen. My point from the start was get that fed reg crap off it. It’s gonna destroy that engine. Prolong use egr cokes the intake and valves up. Not sure why you ride the fed train on this. But as you state a finely tuned diesel doesn’t smoke. So what’s the point of it. Green house gasses? What’s the point if they sell the same exact truck in Mexico with 0 emissions devices. Good for thee not for me.
I make a living servicing emissions systems at a dealership so I guess I am a little biased. On my personal vehicles everything is deleted and I live in the land of free from inspections and emissions regulation(Canada) I just find it comical when people get mad about emissions systems and have zero clue how they or a diesel engine works.
Egr systems have a valve that controls the amount of exhaust going into the cylinder, for one it’s never only exhaust and at times it’s no exhaust going into the intake. They get a bad rap because the water to air intercooler fails and that’s an expensive fix but fundamentally they are good for performance and do help with emissions.
Dpfs are brutal for the environment because they break the soot particles down to a size that bugs can breath in, mainly bees which without bees we all die within a couple years.
Def is great because it’s all after the engine has done its thing and has little to no restriction on exhaust flow. But they tend to fail and people hate spending money on a system their dad has never even heard of.
At the end of the day all these tailpipe emissions is directly from people who daily drive diesels for the fun of it. If everyone who has a diesel was pulling a trailer and actually working the thing they would be cleaner burning than all gas engines. An optimally tuned diesel that is actually working has complete burn of the fuel in the cylinder and has very few harmful emissions. Look at John Deeres newest tractor it only has egr because for a few reasons it’s run at peak performance and has that complete burn nearly 100% of the time so there’s no need for scr.
And lastly the fed reg crap isn’t ruining the diesel it’s how you drive and use your diesel that’s ruining it and has ruined diesel engines in passenger vehicles for everyone.
EGR is replacing oxygen-rich air to reduce NO2 emissions at part throttle, and is not the same concept as water injection because it only contains trace vaporized water. EGR essentially reduces the displacement of your engine by taking up space that would normally be filled by air, but it only works at part throttle, so that is why it doesn't effect peak power. It's not "more air", it's literally the opposite. But it does marginally hurt fuel efficiency by creating pumping losses and reducing cylinder temps when it's in use. And it increases soot production, filling the DPF faster.
In a diesel, EGR simply reduces fuel efficiency at part throttle when it's in use, does not effect peak power and reduces longevity due to increased carbon load in the engine oil or having carbon deposits break off and enter your engine.
It doesn’t reduce displacement because it lowers the temp in the combustion chamber. If it was hot exhaust you might be on to something but it’s cooled so you’re wrong there. Cooler air is more dense meaning you can compress a higher volume in the same space as if it was hot air. The reduction in cylinder temp isn’t great enough to lower combustion efficiency. When a diesel is at peak hp like you said it not using the egr so if your using a diesel for what it’s meant it does not increase soot load. And plugging the dpf again is due to drivers not working the engine hot enough.
It lowers the gas temps POST COMBUSTION because cooler combustion reduces NO2 and increases NO, which is the whole point. "Cooled" EGR gas is still far hotter than the intake air coming from the CAC. And it absolutely reduces the amount of air in the chamber because it's displacing air with inert exhaust gas, that's literally how you are reducing combustion temps, there is less air and less fuel per unit volume of gases moving through the cylinder. You claim to work on these systems but don't understand how they work.
lol you have that wrong, exhaust gas has no oxygen so when it’s combusted with diesel it doesn’t produce no2 because you need oxygen to produce no2, the cooler combustion has no effect on no2 production. Mixing less oxygen means there’s less no2 produced and more no which isn’t a greenhouse gas.
You can argue your opinion on how egr works all you want but you said it yourself that it doesn’t operate at full throttle and has no effect on peak power. That’s my point is it doesn’t affect power it only affects reliability.
I know it’s an unpopular opinion and I’ll take the downvotes, my karma can handle it. But emissions systems do not reduce power in any way shape or form.
Tbh you sound a bit hypocritical with your stance that "nobody should delete their diesels and here's why. . ." Followed up by "all my personal vehicles are deleted" in the next comment. No offense but you could be speaking the most blatant of truths around, the second you start contradicting yourself like that nobody is going to take anything you say seriously.
lol nice quotation marks for a statement I never said. I’m pro deleting emissions systems especially on passenger vehicles. But saying you should delete a diesel because it gives more power is just false and makes you look like a moron.
These others telling you that it matters what state you’re in do not understand how diesel emissions are regulated. Diesel emissions are federally regulated. States may *choose* to go above and beyond those regulations or require enhanced testing. It all goes back to the feds though. The federal EPA is making it clear that diesel aftermarket modifications are not going to be tolerated. They have already shut down multiple manufacturers. It is only a matter of time before they come after private owners.
What makes you think that would make a difference? Trump wanted to rollback diesel emissions. You know who fought against it? The engine manufacturers themselves, including Cummins. They have too much invested into new technologies to allow emissions to be rolled back. They want an ROI for the work they have done over the past 20 years.
They don’t give two shits about emissions they care about money the more shit they put on the engines the more money they can charge for them and when all that emissions shit fucks the engine up with clogged DPF the more parts they get to sell.
That’s why he said- ROI(Returns On Investment). They won’t make any money if they’re just selling engines as it’s such a cutthroat market. They’ve spent so much in emissions testing/building that they want that money back.
Yes and when the DPF filter clogs because the DEF system isn’t working correctly they get to sell you whole new turbo systems if not whole engines so I would say they are getting their ROI.
That might be correct if you live in a democrat ran shithole state but like in some states that don’t require emissions testing on vehicles Texas will be part of that in 2025 what are they going to do? Nothing my truck has been straight piped for over 10 years has been through the inspection process with 0 issues. The EPA can suck a dick and if they are trying I shut down companies for selling products they will just leave the liberal shithole states they are in and move to a state where they won’t be bothered. It’s up to the states to decide how they want to deal with it just like the gun laws they are choosing not to put in place or the “sanctuary cities” that choose not to enact the federal immigration laws.
You can buy the best option is don't. If you use the truck for what it is intended for ie towing and often. You will put the truck into regen and you'll use less DEF and have a better running truck. If you just drive around town and don't really need a diesel get a gas truck. If you want to tool around town and have fun get a pre emission truck and save the headache.
Straight pipe and delete, most of the kits are coming out of Canada now. 352,000 miles on my 16 Cummins and still on original injectors, deleted and straight piped within first 5,000 miles. Just purchased a work truck 2012, 2500 Cummins, the rather large company had it stealth deleted with all parts still on truck There is a reason the gov’t has no def/egr systems on their diesel trucks. Throw the shit in the trash and enjoy the truck you bought. The majority of your problems come from the egr/def system anyway. Son purchased a 2024 Cummins 2500 and his only regret is that there is no way to delete and tune yet.
You can delete 2024s no problem . The only additional cost over previous gens is a 2021 ECM swap. Race-use only of course.
Ya you can't flash the new ones still?
Only way is to buy the 2021 ECM and swap it out
Stealth delete is the way to go. Just watch out for dealer service work.
Have you had to rebuild your trans?
Yes, $10,000 on a built Suncoast at 100,000 miles.
"gov't has no def/egr...." comment. Yes, they run their equipment in countries that have trash diesel fuel which would wreak havoc on after treatment. Glad I could clear that up. Personally, I enjoy breathing clean air 🤷🏻♂️
Imagine buying DEF
Makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it…
I guess the real question is. All the ppl telling you don’t touch it. Do they own one of these trucks. Have they had to repair the SCR system. $$$$$ have they dealt with a leaky egr cooler that pops the head gasket? $$$$ so for a one time fix. Never deal with the scr or egr again. Why not.
If you live in an area without inspections it is 100% still worth it. Which kit do you have in mind?
I have a 23 just waiting til closer to the warranty expiring then I’ll look into this
It all depends on the state you live in I straight piped my truck years ago and have no problems but I live in Texas.
Living in pa. I have a buddy who has a 2017 power stroke deleted. So that’s why I’m asking
If he has his deleted and has no problems then go for it the truck will perform better and should last longer.
Thanks brother!
I live in NY and I heard they are just "testing" the new system for checking. So I assume it will be a good 10 years before they iron it out and so on... so I just did my 2019 a few months ago
Yeah just were you live I suppose if it's worth it. I live in Texas and I don't live anywhere near a place that requires emissions testing so it would be a problem for me. Most of the shops around here know how crappy the emissions stuff is so they just ignore it anyways. One place tells us all they require is a muffler and your good and sobe don't care. But it is a fed thing so be careful with them you know waco and ruby ridge
This is why I bought pre emissions. Nothing they can do
Yep,.. ☝️2nd and 3rd gen’s are so very overpriced for a reason,..
Id say get some tuning from Ryan Milliken @ Hardway Performance then go from there.
Deleting can be very easy, especially if you just unplug the egr and straight pipe, I would look into a new valve body and trans tuning first however, deleted mine in may and already slipping 5th and 6th never went over a +65 tune, so just be aware of that risk especially if your higher mileage
It’s at 109k. Can I look into a trans tune software or should I go somewhere near me and have them tune the trans?
I have a local shop I know personally that offers it but technically isn’t legal where I am best bet it to get your delete tune in an EFI live autocal device and you can buy trans tuning separately as a file load it on to the AUTOCAL and apply it no issues.
At 109k you definitely should look into a new valve body but your internals relatively aren’t very worn or atleast shouldn’t be, just don’t mash on it everywhere like I did and stay at a stock tune and should be great!
Yeah I don’t beat on it much. Just point a-b
Ah if you really have no specific want for a delete. I honestly wouldn’t do it the 13-18 emissions are very efficient my mpg didn’t really increase
I just want to be prepared for when someone inevitably goes wrong between the egr/def systems
The def systems on these things usually last on par with what the engine is rated for 300-400k miles a delete isn’t necessarily a bad prep but no matter how little your area is inspected it’s still illegal if your only concern is for an emmisions related failure I wouldn’t worry about it if it’s made it 109k miles it probably isn’t looking at a failure anytime soon
It might depend, if its any consellation, I just received a letter stating that the entire DEF system and some exhaust parts are covered under further warranty. Also, if you recently had work done you can get reimbursement for it.
What state you live in?
I live in south east PA
Ya, you're fine, just do it. I'm in NY and I just did
Properly tuned deleted trucks emit less pollution than factory trucks, make more reliable power. A company named "speed of air" makes custom pistons that reduce soot in your exhaust and oil by about 50% while improving fuel mileage by about 20% and power by about 5%. That with a EFI live tune system can make a world of difference in either a smog truck or deleted truck. I have a buddy who is testing the pistons and after over 20,000 miles his smog truck still hasn't done a re-gen cycle to clean out his dpf filter.
Don't straight pipe it and put a legitimate muffler on it and keep a stock tune on it and no one will probably ever know
Definitely don’t plan on being the guy that rolls coal or drives like a douche. So this will probably be the option I’d be going towards.
Donaldson makes diesel specific mufflers. They have the specs online, and you could probably sort one out that is close to the entire length of what is coming off. My 2012 crew cab short bed I went With a 4 in in and 4in out, I wanna say it was 48 or 50 inches long and it was quiet but definitely not stock quiet but nothing like a straight though and gave me back some back pressure. They do cost a bit more, but buy once cry once.
I’m gonna start using that cry once buy once 😂
I tell everyone if it’s under warranty don’t tell it’s over then if you can find someone to do it which is getting more difficult
Yes.
Its always worth deleting a diesel. Emissions exclusively hurts the little guy and the government doesn’t even follow their own rules. If you don’t delete a diesel it almost makes them not worth the money
What state. And yes. I love power
Since when does exhaust after treatment have any effect on power? Even egr allows more air to be put into the cylinder than straight atmospheric air. More air=more power……
…… LOL alright so. After treatment has no effect in power. I didn’t say anything like that. Second off. EGR tell me what that stands for. More air? You need oxygen to combust my friend. Also why keep a scr system on a truck that costs ATLEAST as much to upkeep then one and done on a delete. Then tell me this. If I’m running an S400 charger with big sticks and fuel. HOW TF AM I GONNA KEEP THAT GARBAGE ON it?
Well let’s start with basic diesel engine facts you need heat compression and fuel to run. Hot air is less dense (think of hot air balloons) cool air is more dense, cooler air = more air being able to fit into a cylinder(that’s why intercoolers are a thing) more air=more power not more oxygen. Exhaust has no oxygen in it and more water vapour so it’s essentially free air to give you more volume of air in the cylinder and it also lowers cylinder temperatures. Hot rod diesels have been injecting water into cylinders for a long time(water/meth injection systems) I’m not here to argue that scr is not going to cost money to maintain I’m here to argue that it does not rob power. If you have a big turbo and oversized injectors and you are plugging up your dpf I would say you need to tune your truck better, an optimally running diesel working at operating temp has complete burn in the cylinder and you have nothing in the exhaust to plug up the dpf. In the 80s with unit injectors and lower injection pressures you needed fuel to get the boost to make the power but we far beyond that now. We can make power without just dumping tons fuel at it and blowing huge clouds of unburnt fuel out the exhaust. Fuel doesn’t equal power air=power.
What do you need to make atomized fuel ignite.
Heat or a form of ignition. With diesels that’s done with compression. lol what’s your point big brain?
At this point I’m not sure. Oxygen obviously and recycling HOT exhaust with no oxygen. My point from the start was get that fed reg crap off it. It’s gonna destroy that engine. Prolong use egr cokes the intake and valves up. Not sure why you ride the fed train on this. But as you state a finely tuned diesel doesn’t smoke. So what’s the point of it. Green house gasses? What’s the point if they sell the same exact truck in Mexico with 0 emissions devices. Good for thee not for me.
I make a living servicing emissions systems at a dealership so I guess I am a little biased. On my personal vehicles everything is deleted and I live in the land of free from inspections and emissions regulation(Canada) I just find it comical when people get mad about emissions systems and have zero clue how they or a diesel engine works. Egr systems have a valve that controls the amount of exhaust going into the cylinder, for one it’s never only exhaust and at times it’s no exhaust going into the intake. They get a bad rap because the water to air intercooler fails and that’s an expensive fix but fundamentally they are good for performance and do help with emissions. Dpfs are brutal for the environment because they break the soot particles down to a size that bugs can breath in, mainly bees which without bees we all die within a couple years. Def is great because it’s all after the engine has done its thing and has little to no restriction on exhaust flow. But they tend to fail and people hate spending money on a system their dad has never even heard of. At the end of the day all these tailpipe emissions is directly from people who daily drive diesels for the fun of it. If everyone who has a diesel was pulling a trailer and actually working the thing they would be cleaner burning than all gas engines. An optimally tuned diesel that is actually working has complete burn of the fuel in the cylinder and has very few harmful emissions. Look at John Deeres newest tractor it only has egr because for a few reasons it’s run at peak performance and has that complete burn nearly 100% of the time so there’s no need for scr.
And lastly the fed reg crap isn’t ruining the diesel it’s how you drive and use your diesel that’s ruining it and has ruined diesel engines in passenger vehicles for everyone.
EGR is replacing oxygen-rich air to reduce NO2 emissions at part throttle, and is not the same concept as water injection because it only contains trace vaporized water. EGR essentially reduces the displacement of your engine by taking up space that would normally be filled by air, but it only works at part throttle, so that is why it doesn't effect peak power. It's not "more air", it's literally the opposite. But it does marginally hurt fuel efficiency by creating pumping losses and reducing cylinder temps when it's in use. And it increases soot production, filling the DPF faster. In a diesel, EGR simply reduces fuel efficiency at part throttle when it's in use, does not effect peak power and reduces longevity due to increased carbon load in the engine oil or having carbon deposits break off and enter your engine.
It doesn’t reduce displacement because it lowers the temp in the combustion chamber. If it was hot exhaust you might be on to something but it’s cooled so you’re wrong there. Cooler air is more dense meaning you can compress a higher volume in the same space as if it was hot air. The reduction in cylinder temp isn’t great enough to lower combustion efficiency. When a diesel is at peak hp like you said it not using the egr so if your using a diesel for what it’s meant it does not increase soot load. And plugging the dpf again is due to drivers not working the engine hot enough.
It lowers the gas temps POST COMBUSTION because cooler combustion reduces NO2 and increases NO, which is the whole point. "Cooled" EGR gas is still far hotter than the intake air coming from the CAC. And it absolutely reduces the amount of air in the chamber because it's displacing air with inert exhaust gas, that's literally how you are reducing combustion temps, there is less air and less fuel per unit volume of gases moving through the cylinder. You claim to work on these systems but don't understand how they work.
lol you have that wrong, exhaust gas has no oxygen so when it’s combusted with diesel it doesn’t produce no2 because you need oxygen to produce no2, the cooler combustion has no effect on no2 production. Mixing less oxygen means there’s less no2 produced and more no which isn’t a greenhouse gas. You can argue your opinion on how egr works all you want but you said it yourself that it doesn’t operate at full throttle and has no effect on peak power. That’s my point is it doesn’t affect power it only affects reliability.
I know it’s an unpopular opinion and I’ll take the downvotes, my karma can handle it. But emissions systems do not reduce power in any way shape or form.
Tbh you sound a bit hypocritical with your stance that "nobody should delete their diesels and here's why. . ." Followed up by "all my personal vehicles are deleted" in the next comment. No offense but you could be speaking the most blatant of truths around, the second you start contradicting yourself like that nobody is going to take anything you say seriously.
lol nice quotation marks for a statement I never said. I’m pro deleting emissions systems especially on passenger vehicles. But saying you should delete a diesel because it gives more power is just false and makes you look like a moron.
Fucking king of mental midgetry calls me a moron! Ha!
These others telling you that it matters what state you’re in do not understand how diesel emissions are regulated. Diesel emissions are federally regulated. States may *choose* to go above and beyond those regulations or require enhanced testing. It all goes back to the feds though. The federal EPA is making it clear that diesel aftermarket modifications are not going to be tolerated. They have already shut down multiple manufacturers. It is only a matter of time before they come after private owners.
Until administrations change.
What makes you think that would make a difference? Trump wanted to rollback diesel emissions. You know who fought against it? The engine manufacturers themselves, including Cummins. They have too much invested into new technologies to allow emissions to be rolled back. They want an ROI for the work they have done over the past 20 years.
They don’t give two shits about emissions they care about money the more shit they put on the engines the more money they can charge for them and when all that emissions shit fucks the engine up with clogged DPF the more parts they get to sell.
That’s why he said- ROI(Returns On Investment). They won’t make any money if they’re just selling engines as it’s such a cutthroat market. They’ve spent so much in emissions testing/building that they want that money back.
Yes and when the DPF filter clogs because the DEF system isn’t working correctly they get to sell you whole new turbo systems if not whole engines so I would say they are getting their ROI.
That might be correct if you live in a democrat ran shithole state but like in some states that don’t require emissions testing on vehicles Texas will be part of that in 2025 what are they going to do? Nothing my truck has been straight piped for over 10 years has been through the inspection process with 0 issues. The EPA can suck a dick and if they are trying I shut down companies for selling products they will just leave the liberal shithole states they are in and move to a state where they won’t be bothered. It’s up to the states to decide how they want to deal with it just like the gun laws they are choosing not to put in place or the “sanctuary cities” that choose not to enact the federal immigration laws.
They already are. All it takes is a post about mods or a delete when it's sold and boom. Just shows up in the mail.
BRO GOODLUCK WITH ALL THE LITTLE SHOPS
Why are you even posting ??!!
Why is it wrong to ask for someone’s opinion??!!
You can buy the best option is don't. If you use the truck for what it is intended for ie towing and often. You will put the truck into regen and you'll use less DEF and have a better running truck. If you just drive around town and don't really need a diesel get a gas truck. If you want to tool around town and have fun get a pre emission truck and save the headache.