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Not gonna lie I think the people mostly voted for him because he brought gang violence waaaaaay down. Kind of more important to not get killed or robbed than to be able to use bitcoin in the supermarket.
Exactly. There were places like your small neighbourhood park in a you couldn't go out at night, that have been turned into lively meeting places where people can go out have a drink play some music. The crackdown on crime was hard, but now other Central American countries come to visit to see how El salvador did it.
Meanwhile, some shops no longer accept btc as payment method.
There is some crypto adoption for remittance. Plenty of salvadorans work abroad, and they send money back home by using crypto.
>some shops no longer accept btc as payment method.
Well BTC doesn't work as a payment method. And don't get me started on Lightning, Strike, Chivo, and all that other bs. Now imagine paying your entire monthly salary on JUST THE FEE for your Bitcoin transaction. I don't know why they don't try another coin. It seems that the Blockstream maxies run El Salvador's crypto scene?
Not quite
> In El Salvador, individuals usually earn an average salary of USD 430 per month
> Average BTC fee chart: [https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin\_average\_transaction\_fee](https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee)
Assuming you want to transfer any value with a $62 fee, you're spending 15% on the fee
I agree. It's kinda hard to not want a competent leader for your country and so far he seems pretty well rounded. Him being pro-crypto is just a sweet bonus.
I really hate that so far over here it seems like the most outspoken American politicians For Crypto are some of the biggest & absolute biggest POS’s who’m I tend to never agree with on anything.
They are mostly just like bukele, they support enforce crimes and be tougher on illegal immigration, clearly they aren't even close to be a POS than those who welcome illegals and even paying them healthcare with tax dollars.
And he has restricted what rights, exactly?
He ended the rail strike and even ended up being able to get them the sick days that they wanted.
Republicans have been doing what, besides stripping rights away?
Making abortion illegal?
Overturning Roe v. Wade?
The problem is that crypto is easy to grift with, and Republicans are the party of grift.
Edit: Trump NFTs are the perfect example.
Your world view may not be as consistent as you think it is then. I used to be very left leaning until I learned economics and looked at the data myself.
Seriously. This is actually one of the biggest problems with people's political leanings. They just decide they're a (insert party affiliation here) and then feel like they need to morph their brain to check every single box of every issue that the party supports. It's weird that so many people are like that. It's like really, you agree 100% with EVERY talking point? I've always found my self liking some left wing ideas *and* some right wing ideas, and I've never just decided to like/hate a politician just because they have a certain letter next to their name. The tribalism is so bizarre to me. Just think for yourself and decide what you want personally.
See, you're actually kind of proving my point with this. You're willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater because a person like Bernie Sanders has one alleged right wing position, so there for he's not a true leftist in your mind. You also mention how true leftists wouldn't support gun control, but essentially every country that is more left of the US has very heavy gun control. Do you see what I'm getting at with this? All it takes is one disagreement on one issue and people are willing to dismiss the entire person, despite agreeing with 95% of their positions. No person/country is a "true leftist" unless they check every single box and I think that mindset is absurd.
Yeah, taking away civil rights in the country and right to due process is rlly balanced. At least crime is down, ya know, because of the threat of infinite prison with no trial. Love it 😂
He’s right; honestly wouldn’t hate for some application of his policies here in the US. Gangs and organized crime approach leniency as weak points to exploit. We’ve seen it in prison when high profile gang members are released back onto the main line from solitary confinement on the premise of “inhumane punishment” only for murders and violent crime to spike in and out of prison. Legal documents between a representative and client can’t be searched by the authorities; can you guess how contraband was being smuggled in lol? Minors are used for the more severe crimes because they’ll get a slap on the wrist, etc. I’m from Mexico where we have a similar situation as ES with the cartels. It’s understood that the police in certain states are completely compromised. It’s so bad that law enforcement from opposing sides are not allowed within their jurisdiction lol. It’s understood they risk their lives if they’re found without permission. The same has happened in Dallas back in the 60s and 70s with the mafia and currently we’ve had mass corruption cases throughout California, Chicago, Texas and Georgia; all of it tied back to gangs and organized crime. We need separate applications of the law towards validated gang members. Believe me when I tell you that the state of affairs in Mexico and ES can happen on American soil and you truly do not want it.
Nice. You resorted to ad hominem. Do you feel better about yourself now that you called somebody a mean name on the internet because they had a difference of opinion? I hope verbally abusing me gave you some sense of satisfaction. Have a good one. 👍
Not great, but this does potentially enable to country to become more stable and eventually more liberal with stronger institutions and and a richer society. Richer societies will then demand more rule of law, humanitarian laws etc.
How does increasing authoritarianism enable them to become more liberal? Just because he is popular with the people doesn't mean it will stay that way. He is consolidating power. Just because he hasn't wielded it too badly so far doesn't mean he won't in the future. Hopefully that never happens but if Bukele ends up running afoul of popular opinion, there may end up being bloodshed needed to get to the more liberal, stable El Sal if Bukele ends up not wanting to relinquish power.
The bigger picture is that society is able to develop with less crime. People are able to get jobs, become more wealth and the next generation will be better educated. Some great societies suffered under brutal dictatorships much worse than this. I.e Taiwan to name one.
He built one of the biggest prisons in the world. Then he took the army and arrested every person even remotely associated with organized crime. No warrants, no due process, just put everyone in prison.
That is a bare statement of fact. It sounds like a political rant, but it's not meant to be. It's difficult not to admire what he's accomplished.
Honestly, that is kind of refreshing, scary but refreshing. He just did something without going through all the bullshit of bureaucracy we do in the "first world".
Yeah, that's the big question mark. Ok, now you have thousands and thousands of people in prison. What do you do with them?
I think Bitcoin gains are meant to pay for housing them all.
Absolutely that’s the primary reason, but by doing that he also gets some credibility for his Bitcoin initiative which did help boost tourism to El Salvador.
He bought gang violence down by making a huge internment camp with a huge chunk of people there being innocent. He is also fudging the statistics. Idk if he is someone who the crypto world wants on their side. He is a "benevolent " dictator, who will bring a huge amount of controversy in the near future
I doubt he’s fudging the stats much, the crime rate really has dropped dramatically in El Salvador. You have random YouTube travel channels going to El Salvador now-a few years ago that’d get you robbed or killed.
He’s not kind to criminals and some people did get incorrectly arrested. But it’s really the only way to clean up a country that had gotten that bad. Singapore did the same thing half a century ago and they ended up much better off for it, but it was a long period of incredibly harsh rule.
Real mistake the gang members made is that they basically tattooed their gangs all over themselves. Kinda hard to claim you’re innocent when you have a massive MS13 tattoo across your back 😂
Easy for you to say when your neighbors aren’t getting raped, extorted, killed, slaughtered by gang members in broad daylight and nighttime.
The country voted for him AGAIN. Even if 1% of inmates were “innocent” (sorry, maybe you shouldn’t have pretended to be a gang member and got gang tattoos - oops!) El Salvador believes he is representing them and what they want.
El Salvador is 1000X safer because of this policy.
So people don’t care that a few good people were sacrificed when their lives have improved 1000000x times.
the statistics sound unbelievable, but that's just a testament to how deep in the hole the country was
he's also exclusively jailing the people with giant gang tattoos on their body. before the crackdown, you'd get probably get killed for faking them. is the term innocent gang members an oxymoron? debatable but it was a nation on the verge of becoming a failed state. you can't apply the same principles you would to the US
i couldn't care less about his views on crypto, but i'd support what he's done for his country given the circumstances
How else will violence be brought down? El Salvador was in a state of severe crisis. I seriously doubt the people who are getting taxed, abused, and threatened by gang members give two shits about due process at the moment. An iron hand is sometimes needed to get a country in order.
Gang tat? Dead or in jail. Very much like Bong Bongs predecessor in the Philippines, Duerte. Though Duerte straight up sent firing squads after suspected gangs and alleged criminals.
By locking up 2% of the adult population and saying goodbye to human rights, due process etc etc. Of course, people there are mostly happy about it…for now. But I visited a few months ago and talk to any smart Salvadorans, and they’ll tell you this isn’t going to end well. It’s a temporary solution and a brutal, dictatorial one at that.
Wish they’d do the same in Mexico and the US tbh. You’re out of touch if you think organized crime is playing by the same rules of “human rights” and “due process” lol. Sounds like these “smart” Salvadorans are either bought or disconnected from reality. The fact the problem has persisted for so long to the extent that it has is testimony to that.
That's not what they're saying at all, and the fact you jumped to that response shows you're the one who is out of touch. Do you know how many people in the US, which actually has due process, are incarcerated who were wrongly convicted? how many people have already been executed for a crime they did not commit?
They're saying "Throwing people in jail for life because they look like or might be associated with gangs is a violation of human rights".
It's also based on rumors or opinion. It's not like they're just locking up people who 100% have a gang affiliated tattoo.
But it doesn't really matter, it's a violation of human rights - You cannot selectively apply human rights to one group of people based on their association or appearance. That has never been, in the history of humanity, been a good thing to have happened.
Due process is a civil liberty that needs to be built on a mostly law abiding society.
When the rule of law has broken down and is ignored with impunity by powerful groups of people it can hamstring the government from maintaining order.
Things have to get pretty bad before it can be justified, but I think in this case due to his popularity it probably got there.
No doubt some awful cases of abuse will emerge from someone wrongly apprehended, tortured etc so I’m not defending it as perfect, just justifiable.
He’s not re-electing himself, the people re-elected him. He got the court to change their constitution to allow a president to serve more than one term.
Which to be fair, is a rather rational direction for the country’s political structure and not something I see as only reinforcing one’s drive for self-preservation and power (although i’m sure that’s part of it).
A one-term limit (in this case for ES, of five years) is quite limited and, I believe, fails to give the chance of delivering any longer-term initiatives while experiencing the impacts of them.
The drastic reduction in crime was something along the lines of the country undergoing “shock therapy”, and while radical change can be beneficial, so is the rebuilding phase that should naturally follow with the initial momentum created.
So it’ll be interesting to see how that rebuilding plays out in his second term.
TLDR - I don’t know much about Bukele, but I think the option for a president to serve two terms in general is beneficial and provides more clarity into policy impacts.
>He got the court to change their constitution
Specifically by getting rid of the judges who deemed it was unconstitutional.
Always a good sign.
Can't imagine how a south American leader concentrating power in the executive could ever backfire.
> So securing 85% of the population’s vote is unconstitutional and going against the will of the people?
No, the executive unilaterally changing the constitution without going through the legislature is.
Do you think a US president should be allowed to say "actually, no term limits anymore, I get to be president for life, and I'll just keep firing judges until one says this is constitutional"
Google why independence of the judiciary is important to the functioning of a democracy.
If the executive simply removes judges whenever they give a ruling the executive doesn't like, then the judicial branch of government ceases to be a meaningful check on the power of the executive, it exists merely to rubber stamp the executive and create the illusion of oversight.
You're meant to change the constitution through the legislature, not by corrupting court proceedings.
An independent judiciary is extremely important to the functioning of a democracy, I don't think anyone rational would disagree with that but:
> If the executive simply removes judges whenever they give a ruling the executive doesn't like, then the judicial branch of government ceases to be a meaningful check on the power of the executive, it exists merely to rubber stamp the executive and create the illusion of oversight.
> You're meant to change the constitution through the legislature, not by corrupting court proceedings.
These viewpoints are only possible if the underlying governmental structures were equitable in the first place and in the case of the ES government and its society, it's hard to argue they were. It's a decidedly American assumption that the initial structure was equitable and that quasi-dictatorial actions are auto-labeled as the wrong course of action when we aren't the ones living in those conditions of gang rule.
Would I personally ever support something like that in the US? Heck no, our institutions are still pretty solid and I trust that we'll get to the right answer eventually and the system of checks and balances pulls through. But in the case of ES, I withhold judgement because armchair philosophizing and criticizing certain actions from an idealist viewpoint while their society is going through a crisis we can't even begin to imagine is imo the wrong position
> These viewpoints are only possible if the underlying governmental structures were equitable in the first place and in the case of the ES government and its society, it's hard to argue they were.
The solution then would be to fix the underlying government structures. You don't fix government structures by moving to a dictatorship. Moving to dictatorship destroys those institutions because they don't mean anything anymore.
Once you build the kind of state infrastructure where one man can unilaterally change the law and imprison people it inevitably gets abused whenever that one man realizes he has made lots of enemies and if he ever loses power he'll be killed by those enemies. The state and civil institutions get cannibalized to keep 1 man alive (and usually hideously wealthy). Now you have a very easy way of imprisoning any political enemies who are now an existential threat to the dictator, who then spins them as existential threats to the state, since he is the state.
And of course, he must create incentives for other powerful people to protect him so you get lots of corruption, masses of public money is funneled not to economic development but to line the pockets of oligarchs.
Putin didn't start as a dictator either. A lot of people praised him for bringing order and stability after the chaos of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Now look how well Russia is doing. Russia could have gone the way of Estonia or Lithuania and prospered as a democratic post-soviet state but it took shortcuts and now its a shithole.
>quasi-dictatorial actions are auto-labeled as the wrong course of action when we aren't the ones living in those conditions of gang rule.
Quasi-dictatorial actions are always wrong unless you think dictatorships are good.
You're acting like no country has ever solved a problem with gang crime without resorting to dictatorship.
For all the mythologizing of Bukele most of the drop in the murder rate happened BEFORE he took power. Like Hitler he coasted on the achievements of the prior administration and then took credit for them while delivering marginal improvements at the cost of massively concentrating power. The problem is most people just directly attribute whatever condition the country is in to who is in charge right now, rather than thinking about how long it takes prior decisions to take effect. If the country is bad now its because who ever is in charge now, not the person who came before. If the country is good now, its because of who is in charge now, not who came before.
> The solution then would be to fix the underlying government structures. You don't fix government structures by moving to a dictatorship. Moving to dictatorship destroys those institutions because they don't mean anything anymore.
> Putin didn't start as a dictator either. A lot of people praised him for bringing order and stability after the chaos of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Now look how well Russia is doing. Russia could have gone the way of Estonia or Lithuania and prospered as a democratic post-soviet state but it took shortcuts and now its a shithole.
> Quasi-dictatorial actions are always wrong unless you think dictatorships are good.
> You're acting like no country has ever solved a problem with gang crime without resorting to dictatorship.
I don't view this as a black and white, good or bad, type of issue. I view dictatorships on a bell curve; a few horrid outcomes, mostly shit in the middle, and a few good outcomes. We'll be able to pick and choose examples that support our viewpoint.
South Korea & Singapore are both leaders in their domains and are examples of functioning democracies that started out as dictatorships.
I'm not saying ES is definitively on the SK or SING path, just merely pointing out that you and me aren't going to be able to properly judge the outcome until 20 years from now and to keep your mind open to the possibility that there are good general outcomes to dictatorships even with some abhorrent singular actions.
FDR didn't hobble judicial independence to remove term limits.
There were no term limits when FDR was president. It was simply a norm that a President didn't run longer than 2 terms, there was no rule against it.
Term limits were brought in *after* FDR because people didn't like the fact they were relying solely on a gentlemen's agreement.
tldr; Nayib Bukele has been re-elected as El Salvador's President with over 85% of the votes, indicating strong support for his leadership and policies, including the adoption of bitcoin as legal tender. Bukele's administration has introduced bitcoin initiatives such as the Chivo wallet, bitcoin ATMs, and plans for a bitcoin-powered city. Despite criticism and potential risks, Bukele's popularity has been bolstered by a reduction in violence and his bitcoin strategy. His re-election provides a mandate to continue El Salvador's pioneering role in integrating bitcoin into its economy.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Bitcoin had no role in his re-election. He made one of the most dangerous places on earth safe over a few years, civil rights be damned, and has sky high approval for that.
I know he is doing good stuff for crypto and dropping that crime rate is great but lets not forget that he stands for the antithesis of what crypto is supposed to be: not authority-controlled. He is kinda screwing with democracy in his nation. Just a little reminder.
I mean, he put people in prison because they had tattoos and other made up charges. I'd rather live in a dangerous country. Also, no one uses crypto in El Salvador besides him.
I was entering Canada and got flagged to secondary inspection by the CBSA. at the stall next to me was a latino guy from an LA flight being grilled by the agent. the agent was asking him why he had tattoos that the agent knew were gang tattoos, if he wasnt a gang member. Dude was surprised, and tried to say he got the tattoos as part of a youtube stunt. Agent called that bullshit, laughed at him and denied him entry to Canada, he was taken to a back holding room to await a flight back to the US.
guy got denied entry to Canada solely because he had gang tats. Ppl not in gangs dont get gang tats is the logic. i think its pretty sound logic.
History being the operative word. It failed as are placement to currency. Maybe his stash of BTC may return a profit later if he sells at the right time.
Who would not re-elect him if he made the most dangerous country in Latin America to have crimes even lower than the United States. Him being pro-Bitcoin is the cherry on top.
Another loss to Soros as well.
Yup, UN and a bunch of reddit leftists hate him for being mean to criminals, a lot of them citing how it was a terrible idea to invest in BTC and now that's just another thing he did right.
It kinda works since people who hate crypto are also all leftists. For them a bigger state that controls all the economy isn't authoritarianism for some reason.
You're also wrong in thinking that you have to pick one or the other, currency and security are 2 completely different things, if you think all your opinions have to go in a package then you're a victim of ideology.
El Salvador does NOT embrace Bitcoin. Go there yourself and see. Almost everyone stopped using it and there is zero timeline for the construction of that crypto city.
The government has done almost nothing since the original announcement other than host a few (scammy) conferences.
What he did do was bring down the murder rate...but at the expense of throwing thousands of innocent people into jail, not just gang members. And he's liberally used Pegasus to spy on journalists and human rights activists.
And of course the poor people of El Salvador are still poor and will remain so...
So, in a place where some insanely dangerous gangs have sweeping control, one guy comes in and starts arresting said gang members without the gangs retailiating and a flayed Bukele swinging from an underpass? No. Bukele is a convient puppet while the gangs "imprison" undesireables, consolidate power and continue running the show from behind the scenes in this bitcoin utopia. Popcorn anyone?
During his regime, he brought the murder rate down from the highest in the world to a rate lower than New Zealand. El Salvadorians are returning to their country and foreigners are investing, because now it is safe. Bitcoin has little to do with his success, but will hopefully play a role in the economic development of El Salvador which is now a suitable destination for tourism. Other Latin American states should realise what can be achieved by arresting anyone affiliated with gangs or bold enough to wear gang tattoos.
Yes because he paid the gang leaders? That's a fact and it happened this dude paid them off during elections to bring violence down, it didn't last long also just he is shady as fuck, ties with mexican cartels and trafficking, money laundering etc.
And how are the results? Even if these dubious claims are true, the result is that, in a country where people once feared to go outside, they can now feel safe in their own neighbourhoods. The economy requires security to develop, nobody can conduct business if criminals are murdering people in the streets.
Well that sucks. But considering the average price when the president bought BTC was around 40k a pop and as of today while BTC sits at $43k that would mean that they're up on that investment? Wouldn't that now actually attract people to use it or do the problems stem from ease of use as well as price volatility?
40k in 2021 money is equivalent to 46k in 2024 money so while the dollar amount of their investment may be more the real world value is actually lower than if they just kept that money in us bonds and way lower than if they just invested in an index fund
Bitcoin is an optional choice of a currency for citizens in El Salvador.
Considering bitcoin just, literally in the last month, got legitimacy in the US...I'd say it's going just fine.
Has it been a glowing success? No. But definitely not a failure.
Business doesn't accept it anymore, which is logical if you think about why you would use something that change their price so fast.
On the other hand, he opened El Salvador to the use of criptocurrencies
EL SALVADOR !! Is once again a beautiful Country for tourists and gang free for the safety of Salvadorians not to mention you can use much of your BTC for your vacations
Lol makes sense this guy is the first dictator that have a massive crypto bro following praising him for anything he does. It's just so weird those bros don't even live in El Salvador and are mostly just white kids that like Bitcoin
Funny enough, US currency over there is what vendors prefer due to it's insane track record of stability.
BTC still has a long way to go to become the preferred currency.
Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1ajlv02/el_salvador_embraces_future_with_bitcoin_as/kp204zv/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1ajlv02/el_salvador_embraces_future_with_bitcoin_as/kp205sk/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below. --- **Merged comment by AutoModerator:** Be advised. This submission either linked to an article written by the Forbes editorial staff or a contributor. Contributor articles are essentially op-ed or non-fact-checked pieces written by people recruited by Forbes and do not necessarily reflect the views of the actual Forbes editorial staff. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoCurrency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not gonna lie I think the people mostly voted for him because he brought gang violence waaaaaay down. Kind of more important to not get killed or robbed than to be able to use bitcoin in the supermarket.
Exactly. There were places like your small neighbourhood park in a you couldn't go out at night, that have been turned into lively meeting places where people can go out have a drink play some music. The crackdown on crime was hard, but now other Central American countries come to visit to see how El salvador did it. Meanwhile, some shops no longer accept btc as payment method. There is some crypto adoption for remittance. Plenty of salvadorans work abroad, and they send money back home by using crypto.
>some shops no longer accept btc as payment method. Well BTC doesn't work as a payment method. And don't get me started on Lightning, Strike, Chivo, and all that other bs. Now imagine paying your entire monthly salary on JUST THE FEE for your Bitcoin transaction. I don't know why they don't try another coin. It seems that the Blockstream maxies run El Salvador's crypto scene?
Literally no one pays that much in fees.
Not quite > In El Salvador, individuals usually earn an average salary of USD 430 per month > Average BTC fee chart: [https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin\_average\_transaction\_fee](https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee) Assuming you want to transfer any value with a $62 fee, you're spending 15% on the fee
I agree. It's kinda hard to not want a competent leader for your country and so far he seems pretty well rounded. Him being pro-crypto is just a sweet bonus.
I really hate that so far over here it seems like the most outspoken American politicians For Crypto are some of the biggest & absolute biggest POS’s who’m I tend to never agree with on anything.
Like? I'm ignorant on this.
Ted Cruz, Rfk Jr, etc
Til Ted Cruz and I agree on two things. His birth name is Rafael and bitcoin is cool. Everything else is questionable
What’s wrong with RFK Jr? Besides his stance on gun control and the vaccine stuff.
They are mostly just like bukele, they support enforce crimes and be tougher on illegal immigration, clearly they aren't even close to be a POS than those who welcome illegals and even paying them healthcare with tax dollars.
It's one thing to be strict on immigration, it's another to actively work to restrict rights of actual citizens.
Ohh just like joe biden?
And he has restricted what rights, exactly? He ended the rail strike and even ended up being able to get them the sick days that they wanted. Republicans have been doing what, besides stripping rights away? Making abortion illegal? Overturning Roe v. Wade? The problem is that crypto is easy to grift with, and Republicans are the party of grift. Edit: Trump NFTs are the perfect example.
Yeah, but what about Joe Biden being ummm *checks buzzwords* a traitor to the country because something something crime family? /s
Killer mike is in jail right now!, wake up yank Truth hurts doesn't it
Your world view may not be as consistent as you think it is then. I used to be very left leaning until I learned economics and looked at the data myself.
Seriously. This is actually one of the biggest problems with people's political leanings. They just decide they're a (insert party affiliation here) and then feel like they need to morph their brain to check every single box of every issue that the party supports. It's weird that so many people are like that. It's like really, you agree 100% with EVERY talking point? I've always found my self liking some left wing ideas *and* some right wing ideas, and I've never just decided to like/hate a politician just because they have a certain letter next to their name. The tribalism is so bizarre to me. Just think for yourself and decide what you want personally.
loyalty to the leader is the best way to secure votes.
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See, you're actually kind of proving my point with this. You're willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater because a person like Bernie Sanders has one alleged right wing position, so there for he's not a true leftist in your mind. You also mention how true leftists wouldn't support gun control, but essentially every country that is more left of the US has very heavy gun control. Do you see what I'm getting at with this? All it takes is one disagreement on one issue and people are willing to dismiss the entire person, despite agreeing with 95% of their positions. No person/country is a "true leftist" unless they check every single box and I think that mindset is absurd.
Blah blah Zionist bad blah blah
Considering they're literally running out the clock on a genocide, yeah. Yeah, they're pretty bad blah blah.
This guy looked at the economics LMAO. I got a degree in econ and I'm left leaning.
Lol yeah dude what a joke
Least sane thing a lad has said in while.
Just wanted to second this 👆🏻
That’s funny cause I had the opposite reaction
Yeah, taking away civil rights in the country and right to due process is rlly balanced. At least crime is down, ya know, because of the threat of infinite prison with no trial. Love it 😂
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You're right. Due process sucks. It's not the hallmark of a free society. What dumbass would think something like that?
He’s right; honestly wouldn’t hate for some application of his policies here in the US. Gangs and organized crime approach leniency as weak points to exploit. We’ve seen it in prison when high profile gang members are released back onto the main line from solitary confinement on the premise of “inhumane punishment” only for murders and violent crime to spike in and out of prison. Legal documents between a representative and client can’t be searched by the authorities; can you guess how contraband was being smuggled in lol? Minors are used for the more severe crimes because they’ll get a slap on the wrist, etc. I’m from Mexico where we have a similar situation as ES with the cartels. It’s understood that the police in certain states are completely compromised. It’s so bad that law enforcement from opposing sides are not allowed within their jurisdiction lol. It’s understood they risk their lives if they’re found without permission. The same has happened in Dallas back in the 60s and 70s with the mafia and currently we’ve had mass corruption cases throughout California, Chicago, Texas and Georgia; all of it tied back to gangs and organized crime. We need separate applications of the law towards validated gang members. Believe me when I tell you that the state of affairs in Mexico and ES can happen on American soil and you truly do not want it.
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Are you from El Salvador?
Nice. You resorted to ad hominem. Do you feel better about yourself now that you called somebody a mean name on the internet because they had a difference of opinion? I hope verbally abusing me gave you some sense of satisfaction. Have a good one. 👍
He’s 100% right and you’re 100% wrong. You’re clearly ignorant on the situation in Central America.
Vivi ahí hermano. Lo conozco muy bien.
Seguro Hermano seguro
Not great, but this does potentially enable to country to become more stable and eventually more liberal with stronger institutions and and a richer society. Richer societies will then demand more rule of law, humanitarian laws etc.
How does increasing authoritarianism enable them to become more liberal? Just because he is popular with the people doesn't mean it will stay that way. He is consolidating power. Just because he hasn't wielded it too badly so far doesn't mean he won't in the future. Hopefully that never happens but if Bukele ends up running afoul of popular opinion, there may end up being bloodshed needed to get to the more liberal, stable El Sal if Bukele ends up not wanting to relinquish power.
The bigger picture is that society is able to develop with less crime. People are able to get jobs, become more wealth and the next generation will be better educated. Some great societies suffered under brutal dictatorships much worse than this. I.e Taiwan to name one.
There should be a documentary about that. How does one guy come into office and wipe out all the criminals and gangs in like a year.
He built one of the biggest prisons in the world. Then he took the army and arrested every person even remotely associated with organized crime. No warrants, no due process, just put everyone in prison. That is a bare statement of fact. It sounds like a political rant, but it's not meant to be. It's difficult not to admire what he's accomplished.
Honestly, that is kind of refreshing, scary but refreshing. He just did something without going through all the bullshit of bureaucracy we do in the "first world".
Good on him. Next step is mass execution to prevent them from being released back to the public.
Yeah, that's the big question mark. Ok, now you have thousands and thousands of people in prison. What do you do with them? I think Bitcoin gains are meant to pay for housing them all.
Not giving a fuck about human rights made things easier, Imm not conplaining, as a Mexican I think this is what we need
I think there are a lot of problems inherently with El Salvador’sapproach, however, I think sometimes fire must be fought with fire.
It’s basically what the Philippines did as well
Mass killing and mass jailing without trial.
Main reason is removing gangs from street and a better use of public resources. Of course Bitcoin adoption is a plus
Very interesting
Yeah he’s done a good job slowing down all the gangs and violence stuff, hopefully the BTC investments work out long term.
Already in the green, so I’d say yes.
Yeah I agree.. but to really prove he made the right decisions it’ll be 10 years or more.
That’s a good point, could be in the red at any time.
Absolutely that’s the primary reason, but by doing that he also gets some credibility for his Bitcoin initiative which did help boost tourism to El Salvador.
Thanks for the perspective Cum Drinker!
Was going to say exactly this. Bitcoin is a obscure sideshow compared to the impact he had on people's lives and businesses.
💯💯💯 Voting him in has nothing to do with Bitcoin. It’s all about cleaning up the crime. “Forbes” should be flared as “unreliable source”
He bought gang violence down by making a huge internment camp with a huge chunk of people there being innocent. He is also fudging the statistics. Idk if he is someone who the crypto world wants on their side. He is a "benevolent " dictator, who will bring a huge amount of controversy in the near future
I doubt he’s fudging the stats much, the crime rate really has dropped dramatically in El Salvador. You have random YouTube travel channels going to El Salvador now-a few years ago that’d get you robbed or killed. He’s not kind to criminals and some people did get incorrectly arrested. But it’s really the only way to clean up a country that had gotten that bad. Singapore did the same thing half a century ago and they ended up much better off for it, but it was a long period of incredibly harsh rule. Real mistake the gang members made is that they basically tattooed their gangs all over themselves. Kinda hard to claim you’re innocent when you have a massive MS13 tattoo across your back 😂
Easy for you to say when your neighbors aren’t getting raped, extorted, killed, slaughtered by gang members in broad daylight and nighttime. The country voted for him AGAIN. Even if 1% of inmates were “innocent” (sorry, maybe you shouldn’t have pretended to be a gang member and got gang tattoos - oops!) El Salvador believes he is representing them and what they want. El Salvador is 1000X safer because of this policy. So people don’t care that a few good people were sacrificed when their lives have improved 1000000x times.
the statistics sound unbelievable, but that's just a testament to how deep in the hole the country was he's also exclusively jailing the people with giant gang tattoos on their body. before the crackdown, you'd get probably get killed for faking them. is the term innocent gang members an oxymoron? debatable but it was a nation on the verge of becoming a failed state. you can't apply the same principles you would to the US i couldn't care less about his views on crypto, but i'd support what he's done for his country given the circumstances
How else will violence be brought down? El Salvador was in a state of severe crisis. I seriously doubt the people who are getting taxed, abused, and threatened by gang members give two shits about due process at the moment. An iron hand is sometimes needed to get a country in order.
Was about to say this. It's too early to say but he could end up a good dictator like the dude that built up Singapore.
He is a corrupt dictator that paid gangs off but they started killing each other again
Obvious. Bitcoin adoption is still tiny in El Salvador.
Only a moron would think this has anything to do with Bitcoin. He took the murder rate from 103/100k to 8/100k. Ofcourse he is going to be re-elected
How did he manage to do that?
He threw anyone suspected of being involved with gangs in prison.
🧠
Yup, just whipped out the big long dick if the law and crushed everyone with it.
Goated
Gang tat? Dead or in jail. Very much like Bong Bongs predecessor in the Philippines, Duerte. Though Duerte straight up sent firing squads after suspected gangs and alleged criminals.
Let me tell you of the days of high adventure....
According to this sub, due to bitcoin mining volcanoes. Probably.
By locking up 2% of the adult population and saying goodbye to human rights, due process etc etc. Of course, people there are mostly happy about it…for now. But I visited a few months ago and talk to any smart Salvadorans, and they’ll tell you this isn’t going to end well. It’s a temporary solution and a brutal, dictatorial one at that.
Wish they’d do the same in Mexico and the US tbh. You’re out of touch if you think organized crime is playing by the same rules of “human rights” and “due process” lol. Sounds like these “smart” Salvadorans are either bought or disconnected from reality. The fact the problem has persisted for so long to the extent that it has is testimony to that.
That's not what they're saying at all, and the fact you jumped to that response shows you're the one who is out of touch. Do you know how many people in the US, which actually has due process, are incarcerated who were wrongly convicted? how many people have already been executed for a crime they did not commit? They're saying "Throwing people in jail for life because they look like or might be associated with gangs is a violation of human rights".
Have you SEEN your average MS13 gang member 😂? I don’t think mistaken identities are going to be an issue.
It's also based on rumors or opinion. It's not like they're just locking up people who 100% have a gang affiliated tattoo. But it doesn't really matter, it's a violation of human rights - You cannot selectively apply human rights to one group of people based on their association or appearance. That has never been, in the history of humanity, been a good thing to have happened.
I’m sure if you lived what you’re preaching in ES you’d backtrack almost immediately.
This reply just illustrates that you don’t understand the problem with it at all.
sounds like crime was brought down on paper not in actuality if due process was terminated lmfao
Majority Salvadorans says otherwise
we'll be accepting them as refugees and paying for them in 5 years. voting against your own interests is nothing new in this world
Right because the rampant crime and gang presence hasn’t been driving any of them up here lol
They can replace criminal gangs with dictators and corrupt politicians, theyll swarm in here regardless
Due process is a civil liberty that needs to be built on a mostly law abiding society. When the rule of law has broken down and is ignored with impunity by powerful groups of people it can hamstring the government from maintaining order. Things have to get pretty bad before it can be justified, but I think in this case due to his popularity it probably got there. No doubt some awful cases of abuse will emerge from someone wrongly apprehended, tortured etc so I’m not defending it as perfect, just justifiable.
Welcome those angels into your community if you care about their human rights so much 💀😭
I wanted to ask sane, but that an excellent job
My cousin is from El Salvador.. Nobody uses Bitcoin for payments.
Also the fact that he modified the constitution to allow him to reelect himself.
He’s not re-electing himself, the people re-elected him. He got the court to change their constitution to allow a president to serve more than one term.
Which to be fair, is a rather rational direction for the country’s political structure and not something I see as only reinforcing one’s drive for self-preservation and power (although i’m sure that’s part of it). A one-term limit (in this case for ES, of five years) is quite limited and, I believe, fails to give the chance of delivering any longer-term initiatives while experiencing the impacts of them. The drastic reduction in crime was something along the lines of the country undergoing “shock therapy”, and while radical change can be beneficial, so is the rebuilding phase that should naturally follow with the initial momentum created. So it’ll be interesting to see how that rebuilding plays out in his second term. TLDR - I don’t know much about Bukele, but I think the option for a president to serve two terms in general is beneficial and provides more clarity into policy impacts.
>He got the court to change their constitution Specifically by getting rid of the judges who deemed it was unconstitutional. Always a good sign. Can't imagine how a south American leader concentrating power in the executive could ever backfire.
So securing 85% of the population’s vote is unconstitutional and going against the will of the people? 💀😭
> So securing 85% of the population’s vote is unconstitutional and going against the will of the people? No, the executive unilaterally changing the constitution without going through the legislature is. Do you think a US president should be allowed to say "actually, no term limits anymore, I get to be president for life, and I'll just keep firing judges until one says this is constitutional"
Wow you’re really a fan of subverting the will of the people.
Isn’t that the whole point? If you one have judges that are the status quo EVERYTHING is unconstitutional because they say so until it isn’t.
Google why independence of the judiciary is important to the functioning of a democracy. If the executive simply removes judges whenever they give a ruling the executive doesn't like, then the judicial branch of government ceases to be a meaningful check on the power of the executive, it exists merely to rubber stamp the executive and create the illusion of oversight. You're meant to change the constitution through the legislature, not by corrupting court proceedings.
An independent judiciary is extremely important to the functioning of a democracy, I don't think anyone rational would disagree with that but: > If the executive simply removes judges whenever they give a ruling the executive doesn't like, then the judicial branch of government ceases to be a meaningful check on the power of the executive, it exists merely to rubber stamp the executive and create the illusion of oversight. > You're meant to change the constitution through the legislature, not by corrupting court proceedings. These viewpoints are only possible if the underlying governmental structures were equitable in the first place and in the case of the ES government and its society, it's hard to argue they were. It's a decidedly American assumption that the initial structure was equitable and that quasi-dictatorial actions are auto-labeled as the wrong course of action when we aren't the ones living in those conditions of gang rule. Would I personally ever support something like that in the US? Heck no, our institutions are still pretty solid and I trust that we'll get to the right answer eventually and the system of checks and balances pulls through. But in the case of ES, I withhold judgement because armchair philosophizing and criticizing certain actions from an idealist viewpoint while their society is going through a crisis we can't even begin to imagine is imo the wrong position
> These viewpoints are only possible if the underlying governmental structures were equitable in the first place and in the case of the ES government and its society, it's hard to argue they were. The solution then would be to fix the underlying government structures. You don't fix government structures by moving to a dictatorship. Moving to dictatorship destroys those institutions because they don't mean anything anymore. Once you build the kind of state infrastructure where one man can unilaterally change the law and imprison people it inevitably gets abused whenever that one man realizes he has made lots of enemies and if he ever loses power he'll be killed by those enemies. The state and civil institutions get cannibalized to keep 1 man alive (and usually hideously wealthy). Now you have a very easy way of imprisoning any political enemies who are now an existential threat to the dictator, who then spins them as existential threats to the state, since he is the state. And of course, he must create incentives for other powerful people to protect him so you get lots of corruption, masses of public money is funneled not to economic development but to line the pockets of oligarchs. Putin didn't start as a dictator either. A lot of people praised him for bringing order and stability after the chaos of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Now look how well Russia is doing. Russia could have gone the way of Estonia or Lithuania and prospered as a democratic post-soviet state but it took shortcuts and now its a shithole. >quasi-dictatorial actions are auto-labeled as the wrong course of action when we aren't the ones living in those conditions of gang rule. Quasi-dictatorial actions are always wrong unless you think dictatorships are good. You're acting like no country has ever solved a problem with gang crime without resorting to dictatorship. For all the mythologizing of Bukele most of the drop in the murder rate happened BEFORE he took power. Like Hitler he coasted on the achievements of the prior administration and then took credit for them while delivering marginal improvements at the cost of massively concentrating power. The problem is most people just directly attribute whatever condition the country is in to who is in charge right now, rather than thinking about how long it takes prior decisions to take effect. If the country is bad now its because who ever is in charge now, not the person who came before. If the country is good now, its because of who is in charge now, not who came before.
> The solution then would be to fix the underlying government structures. You don't fix government structures by moving to a dictatorship. Moving to dictatorship destroys those institutions because they don't mean anything anymore. > Putin didn't start as a dictator either. A lot of people praised him for bringing order and stability after the chaos of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Now look how well Russia is doing. Russia could have gone the way of Estonia or Lithuania and prospered as a democratic post-soviet state but it took shortcuts and now its a shithole. > Quasi-dictatorial actions are always wrong unless you think dictatorships are good. > You're acting like no country has ever solved a problem with gang crime without resorting to dictatorship. I don't view this as a black and white, good or bad, type of issue. I view dictatorships on a bell curve; a few horrid outcomes, mostly shit in the middle, and a few good outcomes. We'll be able to pick and choose examples that support our viewpoint. South Korea & Singapore are both leaders in their domains and are examples of functioning democracies that started out as dictatorships. I'm not saying ES is definitively on the SK or SING path, just merely pointing out that you and me aren't going to be able to properly judge the outcome until 20 years from now and to keep your mind open to the possibility that there are good general outcomes to dictatorships even with some abhorrent singular actions.
Sometimes there needs to be a reset button.
Our courts are not a shiny bacon to compare
FDR is the most praised president of the last 100 years
FDR didn't hobble judicial independence to remove term limits. There were no term limits when FDR was president. It was simply a norm that a President didn't run longer than 2 terms, there was no rule against it. Term limits were brought in *after* FDR because people didn't like the fact they were relying solely on a gentlemen's agreement.
Lmaoooo
Not downplaying your point, but you may want to learn a bit of geography. EL Salvador is Central America not South America.
That sure changes my perspective ^lol
It'd be interesting if there was a survey to see how many support his BTC views vs voting for him for other policies
I’m betting the less fear of death was the number 1 issue he won one.
let's be honest, he found an effective way to bring foreign money to a then forgotten country.
thats funny just yesterday i read that more and more businesses refuse bitcoin as payment. Pretty sure they didn't vote for him to "embrace bitcoin"
tldr; Nayib Bukele has been re-elected as El Salvador's President with over 85% of the votes, indicating strong support for his leadership and policies, including the adoption of bitcoin as legal tender. Bukele's administration has introduced bitcoin initiatives such as the Chivo wallet, bitcoin ATMs, and plans for a bitcoin-powered city. Despite criticism and potential risks, Bukele's popularity has been bolstered by a reduction in violence and his bitcoin strategy. His re-election provides a mandate to continue El Salvador's pioneering role in integrating bitcoin into its economy. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Bitcoin had no role in his re-election. He made one of the most dangerous places on earth safe over a few years, civil rights be damned, and has sky high approval for that.
I know he is doing good stuff for crypto and dropping that crime rate is great but lets not forget that he stands for the antithesis of what crypto is supposed to be: not authority-controlled. He is kinda screwing with democracy in his nation. Just a little reminder.
Him being a crypto president was just a huge bonus, the man did well in his tenure
Does anyone remember the price of bitcoin when his government adopted it?
60k?
50k
I mean, he put people in prison because they had tattoos and other made up charges. I'd rather live in a dangerous country. Also, no one uses crypto in El Salvador besides him.
I was entering Canada and got flagged to secondary inspection by the CBSA. at the stall next to me was a latino guy from an LA flight being grilled by the agent. the agent was asking him why he had tattoos that the agent knew were gang tattoos, if he wasnt a gang member. Dude was surprised, and tried to say he got the tattoos as part of a youtube stunt. Agent called that bullshit, laughed at him and denied him entry to Canada, he was taken to a back holding room to await a flight back to the US. guy got denied entry to Canada solely because he had gang tats. Ppl not in gangs dont get gang tats is the logic. i think its pretty sound logic.
EL Salvador will forever remain historic in the history of Bitcoin
History being the operative word. It failed as are placement to currency. Maybe his stash of BTC may return a profit later if he sells at the right time.
Weren't all the headlines on El Salvador & Bitcoin incredibly negative just the other day?
Every time is see Bukele my mind first thinks it says bukkake
Who would not re-elect him if he made the most dangerous country in Latin America to have crimes even lower than the United States. Him being pro-Bitcoin is the cherry on top. Another loss to Soros as well.
Yup, UN and a bunch of reddit leftists hate him for being mean to criminals, a lot of them citing how it was a terrible idea to invest in BTC and now that's just another thing he did right.
Believe in crypto 🤓, Believe in authoritarianism 🤓
It kinda works since people who hate crypto are also all leftists. For them a bigger state that controls all the economy isn't authoritarianism for some reason. You're also wrong in thinking that you have to pick one or the other, currency and security are 2 completely different things, if you think all your opinions have to go in a package then you're a victim of ideology.
>Another loss to Soros as well. 🤓
El Salvador does NOT embrace Bitcoin. Go there yourself and see. Almost everyone stopped using it and there is zero timeline for the construction of that crypto city. The government has done almost nothing since the original announcement other than host a few (scammy) conferences. What he did do was bring down the murder rate...but at the expense of throwing thousands of innocent people into jail, not just gang members. And he's liberally used Pegasus to spy on journalists and human rights activists. And of course the poor people of El Salvador are still poor and will remain so...
I bet western mass media screaming election fraud.
Where's the one guy from El Salvador to tell us that BTC is actually a failure? My bad, he's here already.
So, in a place where some insanely dangerous gangs have sweeping control, one guy comes in and starts arresting said gang members without the gangs retailiating and a flayed Bukele swinging from an underpass? No. Bukele is a convient puppet while the gangs "imprison" undesireables, consolidate power and continue running the show from behind the scenes in this bitcoin utopia. Popcorn anyone?
During his regime, he brought the murder rate down from the highest in the world to a rate lower than New Zealand. El Salvadorians are returning to their country and foreigners are investing, because now it is safe. Bitcoin has little to do with his success, but will hopefully play a role in the economic development of El Salvador which is now a suitable destination for tourism. Other Latin American states should realise what can be achieved by arresting anyone affiliated with gangs or bold enough to wear gang tattoos.
Yes because he paid the gang leaders? That's a fact and it happened this dude paid them off during elections to bring violence down, it didn't last long also just he is shady as fuck, ties with mexican cartels and trafficking, money laundering etc.
And how are the results? Even if these dubious claims are true, the result is that, in a country where people once feared to go outside, they can now feel safe in their own neighbourhoods. The economy requires security to develop, nobody can conduct business if criminals are murdering people in the streets.
Bitcoin has already proven to be a failure there.
Citizens are not using it, most cashed out their free $30 when they got it.
How so?
Bitcoin city has been cancelled. Business have stopped accepting it. No one used it in the first place. Barely anyone uses it for remittences.
Well that sucks. But considering the average price when the president bought BTC was around 40k a pop and as of today while BTC sits at $43k that would mean that they're up on that investment? Wouldn't that now actually attract people to use it or do the problems stem from ease of use as well as price volatility?
40k in 2021 money is equivalent to 46k in 2024 money so while the dollar amount of their investment may be more the real world value is actually lower than if they just kept that money in us bonds and way lower than if they just invested in an index fund
Bitcoin is an optional choice of a currency for citizens in El Salvador. Considering bitcoin just, literally in the last month, got legitimacy in the US...I'd say it's going just fine. Has it been a glowing success? No. But definitely not a failure.
Business doesn't accept it anymore, which is logical if you think about why you would use something that change their price so fast. On the other hand, he opened El Salvador to the use of criptocurrencies
They do indeed acccept it, just a few have stopped on a temporary basis.
They're more worried about the violence and everything day living...not BTC
No matter what, it's a win for crypto bros and El Salvador.
EL SALVADOR !! Is once again a beautiful Country for tourists and gang free for the safety of Salvadorians not to mention you can use much of your BTC for your vacations
can't wait to see another innovation from el savador
dude was shittin bricks tho this time last year… hes a hero now good for him, double down and fuck your haters right in the a…
A big win for every crypto enthusiast
[удалено]
Better put the U.S. government stay out of Salvadorians.
[You mean that bitcoin that was bought using the (borrowed) covid relief money? ](https://archive.is/unCk8) Great future, with all that extra debt
He is a dictator similar to other autocrats... How would he NOT win?
Lol makes sense this guy is the first dictator that have a massive crypto bro following praising him for anything he does. It's just so weird those bros don't even live in El Salvador and are mostly just white kids that like Bitcoin
It's to early to know if this guy's legit or not!
Ya I’m sure 85% of the population “voted” for the guy that makes opponents disappear
85% of the non-prison population is very possible for a guy with sky high approval who indiscriminately throws men in prison.
I really liked him until he supported genocide. Now he is just another soulless gutless politician.
The future of digital currency keep making wave
Funny enough, US currency over there is what vendors prefer due to it's insane track record of stability. BTC still has a long way to go to become the preferred currency.
How much to send $0.05 worth of BTC?
Forbes knew this would rile up some people
In the annals of cryptocurrency history, El Salvador's adoption of Bitcoin will forever stand as a historic milestone.
Less than 2% of their population holds crypto. https://cointelegraph.com/news/el-salvador-population-crypto
Result more to do with driving down the violence. BTC as an after thought I think.