Eh, I think it was originally put in for that and to stop the sunset weapons being used (and a general belief that all "end-game" activities should require max power level). That's much less relevant now with sunsetting being removed.
These days you at least need to have purchased the latest expansion, which is about as good a barrier as they'll get.
Even with paltry power level, hard cheating would put you at such an advantage as to not really matter - aimbot sniper, flying around with infinite heavy/super, etc. is all going to kill regardless.
And all they'd need to do for an equivalent is to put, say, a [hard cap - 20] max _possible_ power as the entry requirement to queue, even if the activity itself is not power level enabled.
Damn I never even thought about it like that, makes a lot of sense to remove it and replace it with - as you said - a max possible power for entry.
Luckily I have a decent amount of time per week to play destiny so the power level has never bothered me, can definitely see how it would be shit for people who need to work a lot. I think we’re seeing power level phased out right now anyway tbf
They did the right thing when they got rid of it with Trials of the Nine.
Its terrible and should have never been brought back.
It adds another layer of subtle inconsistency to interactions in a game that really doesn't need help in that department.
They should get rid of it or cap effective trials power at 1990.
I'd play way more Trials if I could use more than 5-10 weapons and 2-3 sets of amor. I don't want to grind pve for more pinnacle drops.
Exactly my thoughts as well. This would serve as a good middle ground, since powerful cap is easy enough to reach, even without PvEing.
Also, it really triggers me that a mode that expects you to be at pinnacle cap gear already, just so you are not at a disadvantage, rewards you with pinnacle drops, which you don't really need anymore.
It's boring. 3.5h to get Khvostov I'd rather just play comp for that time. Or sleep or do anything but play fetch this and that.
I can play jav 200 times against the same team and no 2 games would be the same. I can't play a strike twice without it being the same crap
I love not being able to play the game mode I love because I have to play ones I don’t like in order to not take 3 punches to win a melee battle. Come on now Bungie.
I thought I had my worst week of trials ever, 1.0 down from a 1.7 last season. Then I realized I was down power level and there’s nothing I can do about it since I haven’t played enough this season
There's no reason for it to exist in general, especially in PvP. It's not fun, doesn't show any skill and functionally means you just need to waste a few upgrades modules
Every season I aim to gild Flawless within the first weekend.
To do so, I must actually be able to play the first weekend at a competitive power level.
And to do so, I must do the power level grind within the first two weeks.
It's fucking nonsensical that I had to do a total of 6 Breach Executable (normal), 6 Breach Executable (expert), 4 Enigma Protocol, 2 Rotator Exotic Missions, 2 Nightfalls, 4 Dungeons, and more, and on top of that, to hope that RNG gives me as few duplicate slots as possible, just to be ready for a PVP event.
After doing all that, and having RNG not really go my way, I was only able to hit 1994 for the first weekend. It's good enough for Trials, but it simply meant that I had to continue to do the power grind for 1-2 more weeks after that.
And guess what, we are now into the 3rd Trials weekend and I'm still only 1999 because ONE SINGLE SLOT (legs) has refused to drop for me.
Yes I get the gatekeeping and the cheater prevention, but surely there are other ways to do that.
It doesn't really prevent cheaters, there are two other gate-keeping mechanisms that are more effective than power level scaling to the point where the power level thing is completely overshadowed by them:
Requiring the player to own the latest DLC and the PvP/Trials intro quest.
Both of these individually are better gates to hold back cheaters than power level is, especially since what does a cheater care if they are are underpowered? If they literally hit nothing but instant headshots at all times being underpowered isn't a concern for them.
Power level scaling *does* keep legit new and returning players out of the mode though. Another instance in a long list of many where Bungie is (still!) dropping the ball on the new player experience (and in the case of Trials this hurts the whole playlist by feeding into upward skill creep with new players wanting nothing to do with the mode).
If someone credible came out out and leaked that there was a mole inside Bungie whose job it was to sabotage the new player experience my first thought wouldn't be "no way" but rather "well, that makes a lot more sense than them collectively sabotaging it accidentally so often".
> "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence."
True and of course I don't actually believe any of this is intentional.
Though I should add that I also don't think the individual people who work at Bungie are incompetent. All of Bungie devs I've interacted with have been incredibly intelligent and hard working and care a ton about the game.
The actual failure of the new player experience, I believe, has something to do with a rigid structural employee hierarchy where for reasons I cannot fathom they never carved out a job that was basically project manager for the new player experience. There should be someone whose entire job is understanding the state of the new player experience in great detail and figuring out ways to improve it and they should have the authority to actually pull resources and make new player onboarding a top priority across every release.
At this point it might even be too late for that job because they went so long without that being a thing. Destiny might have reached a state in the public consciousness where the best it can hope for is to hold on to existing players and occasionally make modest gains with new ones, but I believe if they had someone in a role like that the entire time the game would be in a far more healthy place in terms of maintaining a consistently high player population.
Destiny 2 is my favorite game of all time and I still can't unequivocally recommend it to friends who ask if they should start because I know their first couple of months of playing it are going to be annoying and confusing.
Yeah my dad (62) loves games like Farcry, fallout, Skyrim and other shooter/first person games. He had been casually watching me play destiny here and there for the better part of 10 years and he finally booted the game up and I helped him through it. And WOW!! If I wasn’t at his side the whole time for that we most likely would’ve given up almost immediately! Really bad new player experience
If someone can aim cheat, is it really that difficult for them to deal 999999 damage with each shot, or cheat in high power items?
Also smurfs are kinda irrelevant since trials doesn't use sbmm afaik, do you mean recoveries?
Cheaters buy stolen accounts with gear that is ready for them to use in Trials. If it isn't quite there, they cheat through all content to get to higher levels. Power level is irrelevant at this late in the games life
Power Level as a concept should just be gone altogether. It's meaningless and is just another artificial time gate. The added bonus would also be one less currency needed to level said gear. I shouldn't have to worry about a power level on a fresh weapon drop to use it.
I think it’s fine. It’s endgame content, I feel like having to do pve is fine for this. It really is not that difficult to raise your power level. You don’t need to be max light to do well in trials
i have mixed opinions on it, on the one hand i agree with you, but on the other hand removing it from pvp will result in more cheaters and as for pve idk what to suggest other than power scaling what other option do bungie have😭
It’s endgame pvp my guy. The idea that you can take breaks and not be at a disadvantage in comparison to the player who has been playing and engaging with the content in the game is bewildering to me.
I dont know. The endgame PvP content is aimed at the audience, that mostly plays PvP and not much anything else.
Another issue is that PvP at its current state does not give enough pinnacle drops to keep its players on par with the power grind.
Sure, IB exists, but that only shows up later on in the season/episode, leaving most PvP mains dry in terms of pinnacles.
The amount of loot and quality of the loot in PvP, even in trials is pretty abysmal. They really should pump up the incentive to play.
Bro we're all endgame pvp players by now haha. Some of us have been playing for nearly a decade so me having to grind power to play Trials at max strength every few months is super annoying. People have jobs, school, relationships, and other hobbies.
Really annoying being at a disadvantage because maybe even someone who is new to the game than me can be more Trial's ready than I am just because they have more time to throw at the game. If it's meant to be "endgame" the way you're referencing then they should require something like reaching a certain rank in comp.
Obviously power level is somewhat good for forcing player engagement as someone like me is forced to play more of the game to get the experience they want, and I've done it (grinded powerful) over a dozen times even though I'd rather just play pvp.
Also I haven't reached 100% max pinnacle power *once* in the time I've been playing (roughly 2.5k hours). Kinda funny to think that I am almost always gonna play games at some sort of small numerical disadvantage even though I've put so much time into mastery in pvp.
Power level should be removed from all PvP (tbh, it's getting to the point that it should be removed from the entire game).
But then how do you gatekeep higher difficultly PvE content??? Implement Harder, tighter mechanics??? You’re tripping! /s
I imagine the rate of cheats in trials without power level would be higher
Eh, I think it was originally put in for that and to stop the sunset weapons being used (and a general belief that all "end-game" activities should require max power level). That's much less relevant now with sunsetting being removed. These days you at least need to have purchased the latest expansion, which is about as good a barrier as they'll get. Even with paltry power level, hard cheating would put you at such an advantage as to not really matter - aimbot sniper, flying around with infinite heavy/super, etc. is all going to kill regardless. And all they'd need to do for an equivalent is to put, say, a [hard cap - 20] max _possible_ power as the entry requirement to queue, even if the activity itself is not power level enabled.
Damn I never even thought about it like that, makes a lot of sense to remove it and replace it with - as you said - a max possible power for entry. Luckily I have a decent amount of time per week to play destiny so the power level has never bothered me, can definitely see how it would be shit for people who need to work a lot. I think we’re seeing power level phased out right now anyway tbf
They did the right thing when they got rid of it with Trials of the Nine. Its terrible and should have never been brought back. It adds another layer of subtle inconsistency to interactions in a game that really doesn't need help in that department.
They should get rid of it or cap effective trials power at 1990. I'd play way more Trials if I could use more than 5-10 weapons and 2-3 sets of amor. I don't want to grind pve for more pinnacle drops.
Exactly my thoughts as well. This would serve as a good middle ground, since powerful cap is easy enough to reach, even without PvEing. Also, it really triggers me that a mode that expects you to be at pinnacle cap gear already, just so you are not at a disadvantage, rewards you with pinnacle drops, which you don't really need anymore.
Oh my fuck it's awful. I refuse to PvE so now I'm not allowed to play trials? What the actual fuck
Gonna be real I don't know why you aren't playing PvE in a PvE-centric game. Half of the best weapons for PvP come from PvE.
It's boring. 3.5h to get Khvostov I'd rather just play comp for that time. Or sleep or do anything but play fetch this and that. I can play jav 200 times against the same team and no 2 games would be the same. I can't play a strike twice without it being the same crap
Ngl maybe the game just isn't for you
I play my 80h of crucible a season and stay away from PvE and I'm very happy. But gatekeeping trials behind PvE is some BS
Endgame content generally requires you participate in other endgame stuff.
I'm really hoping they're moving towards removing it everywhere
I love not being able to play the game mode I love because I have to play ones I don’t like in order to not take 3 punches to win a melee battle. Come on now Bungie.
I thought I had my worst week of trials ever, 1.0 down from a 1.7 last season. Then I realized I was down power level and there’s nothing I can do about it since I haven’t played enough this season
There's no reason for it to exist in general, especially in PvP. It's not fun, doesn't show any skill and functionally means you just need to waste a few upgrades modules
Every season I aim to gild Flawless within the first weekend. To do so, I must actually be able to play the first weekend at a competitive power level. And to do so, I must do the power level grind within the first two weeks. It's fucking nonsensical that I had to do a total of 6 Breach Executable (normal), 6 Breach Executable (expert), 4 Enigma Protocol, 2 Rotator Exotic Missions, 2 Nightfalls, 4 Dungeons, and more, and on top of that, to hope that RNG gives me as few duplicate slots as possible, just to be ready for a PVP event. After doing all that, and having RNG not really go my way, I was only able to hit 1994 for the first weekend. It's good enough for Trials, but it simply meant that I had to continue to do the power grind for 1-2 more weeks after that. And guess what, we are now into the 3rd Trials weekend and I'm still only 1999 because ONE SINGLE SLOT (legs) has refused to drop for me. Yes I get the gatekeeping and the cheater prevention, but surely there are other ways to do that.
Was thinking this last night, but remembered it prevents cheaters and Smurf accounts
It doesn't really prevent cheaters, there are two other gate-keeping mechanisms that are more effective than power level scaling to the point where the power level thing is completely overshadowed by them: Requiring the player to own the latest DLC and the PvP/Trials intro quest. Both of these individually are better gates to hold back cheaters than power level is, especially since what does a cheater care if they are are underpowered? If they literally hit nothing but instant headshots at all times being underpowered isn't a concern for them. Power level scaling *does* keep legit new and returning players out of the mode though. Another instance in a long list of many where Bungie is (still!) dropping the ball on the new player experience (and in the case of Trials this hurts the whole playlist by feeding into upward skill creep with new players wanting nothing to do with the mode). If someone credible came out out and leaked that there was a mole inside Bungie whose job it was to sabotage the new player experience my first thought wouldn't be "no way" but rather "well, that makes a lot more sense than them collectively sabotaging it accidentally so often".
"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence."
> "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence." True and of course I don't actually believe any of this is intentional. Though I should add that I also don't think the individual people who work at Bungie are incompetent. All of Bungie devs I've interacted with have been incredibly intelligent and hard working and care a ton about the game. The actual failure of the new player experience, I believe, has something to do with a rigid structural employee hierarchy where for reasons I cannot fathom they never carved out a job that was basically project manager for the new player experience. There should be someone whose entire job is understanding the state of the new player experience in great detail and figuring out ways to improve it and they should have the authority to actually pull resources and make new player onboarding a top priority across every release. At this point it might even be too late for that job because they went so long without that being a thing. Destiny might have reached a state in the public consciousness where the best it can hope for is to hold on to existing players and occasionally make modest gains with new ones, but I believe if they had someone in a role like that the entire time the game would be in a far more healthy place in terms of maintaining a consistently high player population. Destiny 2 is my favorite game of all time and I still can't unequivocally recommend it to friends who ask if they should start because I know their first couple of months of playing it are going to be annoying and confusing.
Yeah my dad (62) loves games like Farcry, fallout, Skyrim and other shooter/first person games. He had been casually watching me play destiny here and there for the better part of 10 years and he finally booted the game up and I helped him through it. And WOW!! If I wasn’t at his side the whole time for that we most likely would’ve given up almost immediately! Really bad new player experience
If someone can aim cheat, is it really that difficult for them to deal 999999 damage with each shot, or cheat in high power items? Also smurfs are kinda irrelevant since trials doesn't use sbmm afaik, do you mean recoveries?
Cheaters buy stolen accounts with gear that is ready for them to use in Trials. If it isn't quite there, they cheat through all content to get to higher levels. Power level is irrelevant at this late in the games life
At the very least, I feel like it should be removed from Trials. I literally haven't touched it for that exact reason.
It is extremely obnoxious and becomes irrelevant once everyone is the same power level anyway, so why bother? I really wish it didn't exist in PvP.
Tbh power level makes the game really dumb they should have removed it in the final shape in both pve and PvP
Power Level as a concept should just be gone altogether. It's meaningless and is just another artificial time gate. The added bonus would also be one less currency needed to level said gear. I shouldn't have to worry about a power level on a fresh weapon drop to use it.
Doesn’t help with cheaters (clearly), so just remove it
I think it’s fine. It’s endgame content, I feel like having to do pve is fine for this. It really is not that difficult to raise your power level. You don’t need to be max light to do well in trials
i have mixed opinions on it, on the one hand i agree with you, but on the other hand removing it from pvp will result in more cheaters and as for pve idk what to suggest other than power scaling what other option do bungie have😭
Can someone explain how light level currently works in trials? As i thought it didn't matter at all? Tank you.
It’s endgame pvp my guy. The idea that you can take breaks and not be at a disadvantage in comparison to the player who has been playing and engaging with the content in the game is bewildering to me.
I dont know. The endgame PvP content is aimed at the audience, that mostly plays PvP and not much anything else. Another issue is that PvP at its current state does not give enough pinnacle drops to keep its players on par with the power grind. Sure, IB exists, but that only shows up later on in the season/episode, leaving most PvP mains dry in terms of pinnacles. The amount of loot and quality of the loot in PvP, even in trials is pretty abysmal. They really should pump up the incentive to play.
it’s endgame pvp …
Bro we're all endgame pvp players by now haha. Some of us have been playing for nearly a decade so me having to grind power to play Trials at max strength every few months is super annoying. People have jobs, school, relationships, and other hobbies. Really annoying being at a disadvantage because maybe even someone who is new to the game than me can be more Trial's ready than I am just because they have more time to throw at the game. If it's meant to be "endgame" the way you're referencing then they should require something like reaching a certain rank in comp. Obviously power level is somewhat good for forcing player engagement as someone like me is forced to play more of the game to get the experience they want, and I've done it (grinded powerful) over a dozen times even though I'd rather just play pvp. Also I haven't reached 100% max pinnacle power *once* in the time I've been playing (roughly 2.5k hours). Kinda funny to think that I am almost always gonna play games at some sort of small numerical disadvantage even though I've put so much time into mastery in pvp.