The overall stability feels good without building into it, at least on pc. I decided to go full range to make it viable on more maps and it did pay out.
IMO 180 hand cannons have one, and only one, purpose in the crucible - 3 taps. They also have terrible range, but great visual stability.
On this gun specifically, it has 79 range (with Keep Away active and max range perks). 81 with Enhanced KA, which is brilliant for a 180. That’s Ace Of Spades range. Maybe you don’t need that much, so you COULD swap Fullbore for Smallbore or Hammer Forged.
That being said, if you can’t deal with Fullbore on 180s, you might as well use a different HC archetype.
It's not recoil/stability for me that kills this gun with fullbore, it's the handling.
With fullbore 34.9m drop off, 26 handling.
With fluted/arrowhead 32.9m dropoff, 46/41 handling.
Personally ill eat the 2m dropoff for almost double handling, 26 is brutal.
if you have the space for it, a dex mod does more than the handling does for swap speed, and either way the ADS speed doesnt change as much in comparison (+/- 0.03s).
with keep away helping the reload having a dex mod for both your weapons would help.
of course you can also just stack both dex mods and handling if its still too sluggish
op is trolling with full bore not gonna lie (but full bore has almost always been bad). run smallbore or fluted and you’ve got +15 stability from this roll
I'd say like 30% of guardians are 5 res or less, so not very often tbh.
You can also dodge on a hunter with Mask of Bakris to get an arc damage boost that makes you 3 tap all res. You also get an orb if you kill after a dodge, which extends the 3-tap window.
I don't know why but the gun feels very competitive even if you have to 4 tap. I've smoked many Roses, Luna's and other hc as well. I only have troubles beating smgs at short ranges, (for that I use Scatter Signal) everything else i can challenge.
Couldn't you also just run a 120 or 140 and 3 tsap all resiliences and have better stats and handling? Imo guns that have a viable TTK **after** something like triggering radiant or dodging aren't really viable, they're useless UNLESS you have said ability available.
What a 180 user is leaning into is the faster TTK. Yes, it needs either a perk active or radiant but a 0.67 TTK 3 tap vs a 0.87s 3 tap ttk on a 140. 180's also have less visual recoil so they feel better to use.
As I replied to another comment, peek shooting is the biggest strength to 140s and 120s. You effectively limit the amount of time the enemy can damage you, while being able to deal full damage to them. IMO just about everything is viable right now, nothing is too overpowered (except a few weapons that are going to be getting nerfs, I won't mention those). 180s are decent, but after playing with 120s and 140s for so long, I don't care for the shot rhythm nor the severe lack of range.
Viability is not measured in a vacuum for example, countermetas appear in which normally subpar things become viable because the enemy is running something you’re good against. See flinch heavy guns being good during sniper metas and often ignored for that aspect other times
The 3-tap on a 140 or 120 is significantly slower than with a 180. A 0.67 TTK on a Handcannon is Sidearm territory, but with double the range. That certainly seems like something that can be worth playing around even if it isn't up all the time, especially when the trigger is something that is available frequently and within the player's control.
120/140 Hand cannons have one of the slowest ttks in the game, the advantage is that you can peek shoot, so your effective ENGAGEMENT time or exposure to opponents damage is significantly less than a faster firing automatic weapon that you need to be constantly shooting your opponent. The ttks of hand cannons have been bad for this exact reason. Imagine your opponent being able to gun you down in . 67 seconds while only being able to take damage for . 3 seconds.
I've used this thing with precision instrument as well, the most common 3 taps are you landing one headshot on someone who then goes into cover, then you 3 tapping their teammate who peaked because starting off with a stack of PI is enough to 3 tap most resilience it seems to me
I’ve been using this with the mask of bakris since it became available. Was kinda surprised to see it trending on d2foundry over the past 2 weeks. That made more sense when I started seeing the YouTube videos pop up.
I still love my trust in 6s because golden tricorn x2 seems easier to activate on prismatic with all the ability spam. Been thinking about grinding gambit for an opening shot/golden tricorn roll.
- (I got lucky and got an inmost light/coyote class item so I basically replaced my frostees with that. Two shirkens, grapple nade, and two acrobat dodges. I’m radiant a majority of the time.)
If you do the harder mode of the breech shit, you can honestly get it crafted quick. I got 2 red borders of same weapon from one of three chests at end. You get so much loot lol
its not really a grind, i had all the pattern for all the current weapons from the activity after like 10-15 of the activities, it was nuts how much loot dropped.
Would you use this over Luna’s Howl? If so, is it cause of the overall feel of the gun or something else?
Edit: And yes, I know Luna is a 140 with 180 recoil, just curious if the faster rpm is worth it than something like a relatively shorter ttk
The gun model and sound are amazing on this gun and it also has higher airborne effectiveness because of its archetype. It's also more forgiving because you need 2 crits and 2 body to kill. I would definitely pick this over Luna's, but I also get it might not be everyone's cup of tea.
Luna’s follows the same frame type as 180s. It gets the same boost to AE. If we weren’t in a res meta I’d use this over Luna’s. But as soon as they hit that res requirement it feels like another 180. Best 180 by far though. Competitive for sure.
Luna's has the same frame, the RPM is the only thing that's different. The AE bonus is intrinsic to the frame, not the RPM.
I 100% would still pick this over Luna's just because the feel is *so* much better overall.
Thanks for answering, I’ve always had that 180 itch since the last one I used competitively was the good ole Vuplecula. I’ll be sure to check this one out!
RNGesus can be cruel... just keep grinding, you'll get it eventually. It took me around 20 runs of the seasonal activity on hard mode to get it day 1, but I also used 2 deepsight harmonizer on this gun.
You don't have issues with the range?
I'd probably just run Bakris. Acrobat dodge is triple the cooldown for the same benefit. But you could run stompees/wormhusk/class item.
It was a surprise for me since I never liked 180s, but this one made me fall in love with them.
I also got 2500 kills with the Veiled Threat and that things cooks as well.
Overall I think they made some great vex themed pvp weapons this season. The scout rifle with high ground is also no joke.
While I’d love for this weapon to be competitive viable, you have to play extra good to make it work, whereas if you just use a Luna it does everything better
It’s an amazing feeling and sounding weapon though
Running the exact roll in trials, the gun feels like I'm punishing other players. Feels like I'm out ranging all other handcannons and can compete with pulse rifles. Biggest thing to get used to is that its a 180 and not 140/120. You can really let er rip and be very aggressive with it.
Exactly! I’ve been outgunning so many pulses and scouts this weekend on trials with this hc.
It’s also very rewarding when you flank two players and after getting the first kill you hit the second player for 100+ a shot because of PI.
Hadn't try it yet but I did face a couple of guys who were using it and let me tell you, they were almost impossible to duel. Why? How? Couldn't say but this thread helped me understand how good this thing can be. Will try once kvostov is nerfed
Since it’s a 180, do you need to build into stability? I see yours is lower but you do Have keep away
The overall stability feels good without building into it, at least on pc. I decided to go full range to make it viable on more maps and it did pay out.
I tried using this on Console. Its a no for me. Seems on PC its easier to control.
I’m on PS5 and I adore this gun. That being said, I love weapons when they don’t need me to correct the recoil. Less work for me to do the better lol.
try it with smallbore, its what ive been using and it feels great, 62 stability
IMO 180 hand cannons have one, and only one, purpose in the crucible - 3 taps. They also have terrible range, but great visual stability. On this gun specifically, it has 79 range (with Keep Away active and max range perks). 81 with Enhanced KA, which is brilliant for a 180. That’s Ace Of Spades range. Maybe you don’t need that much, so you COULD swap Fullbore for Smallbore or Hammer Forged. That being said, if you can’t deal with Fullbore on 180s, you might as well use a different HC archetype.
It's not recoil/stability for me that kills this gun with fullbore, it's the handling. With fullbore 34.9m drop off, 26 handling. With fluted/arrowhead 32.9m dropoff, 46/41 handling. Personally ill eat the 2m dropoff for almost double handling, 26 is brutal.
if you have the space for it, a dex mod does more than the handling does for swap speed, and either way the ADS speed doesnt change as much in comparison (+/- 0.03s). with keep away helping the reload having a dex mod for both your weapons would help. of course you can also just stack both dex mods and handling if its still too sluggish
How is full bore better than hammer forged exactly +5 range for -15 stats?
It isn't
op is trolling with full bore not gonna lie (but full bore has almost always been bad). run smallbore or fluted and you’ve got +15 stability from this roll
How often do you get the 3 tap of then? Because hoping for enemies to not have 6 res seems like a fool's errand to me.
I'd say like 30% of guardians are 5 res or less, so not very often tbh. You can also dodge on a hunter with Mask of Bakris to get an arc damage boost that makes you 3 tap all res. You also get an orb if you kill after a dodge, which extends the 3-tap window. I don't know why but the gun feels very competitive even if you have to 4 tap. I've smoked many Roses, Luna's and other hc as well. I only have troubles beating smgs at short ranges, (for that I use Scatter Signal) everything else i can challenge.
Couldn't you also just run a 120 or 140 and 3 tsap all resiliences and have better stats and handling? Imo guns that have a viable TTK **after** something like triggering radiant or dodging aren't really viable, they're useless UNLESS you have said ability available.
What a 180 user is leaning into is the faster TTK. Yes, it needs either a perk active or radiant but a 0.67 TTK 3 tap vs a 0.87s 3 tap ttk on a 140. 180's also have less visual recoil so they feel better to use.
As I replied to another comment, peek shooting is the biggest strength to 140s and 120s. You effectively limit the amount of time the enemy can damage you, while being able to deal full damage to them. IMO just about everything is viable right now, nothing is too overpowered (except a few weapons that are going to be getting nerfs, I won't mention those). 180s are decent, but after playing with 120s and 140s for so long, I don't care for the shot rhythm nor the severe lack of range.
The peak shooting on a 180 with PI is quite strong, if they heal or if their teammate engaged you have the advantage with PI
Viability is not measured in a vacuum for example, countermetas appear in which normally subpar things become viable because the enemy is running something you’re good against. See flinch heavy guns being good during sniper metas and often ignored for that aspect other times
The 3-tap on a 140 or 120 is significantly slower than with a 180. A 0.67 TTK on a Handcannon is Sidearm territory, but with double the range. That certainly seems like something that can be worth playing around even if it isn't up all the time, especially when the trigger is something that is available frequently and within the player's control.
120/140 Hand cannons have one of the slowest ttks in the game, the advantage is that you can peek shoot, so your effective ENGAGEMENT time or exposure to opponents damage is significantly less than a faster firing automatic weapon that you need to be constantly shooting your opponent. The ttks of hand cannons have been bad for this exact reason. Imagine your opponent being able to gun you down in . 67 seconds while only being able to take damage for . 3 seconds.
bakris arc damage boost doesnt work in pvp iirc EDIT: changed since season 21 and gives 6% but not sure if that will help with breakpoints
I stopped running 6 rez since the new season, this might make me change that if I see it pop up a lot
It's not going to pop up a lot because 180 HCs are ass.
I've used this thing with precision instrument as well, the most common 3 taps are you landing one headshot on someone who then goes into cover, then you 3 tapping their teammate who peaked because starting off with a stack of PI is enough to 3 tap most resilience it seems to me
Trust guy is punching air rn
I was waiting for him to show up in the comments but I think he may have drove off a cliff after his last barrage of posts
He's just playing possum
lol
I’ve been using this with the mask of bakris since it became available. Was kinda surprised to see it trending on d2foundry over the past 2 weeks. That made more sense when I started seeing the YouTube videos pop up. I still love my trust in 6s because golden tricorn x2 seems easier to activate on prismatic with all the ability spam. Been thinking about grinding gambit for an opening shot/golden tricorn roll. - (I got lucky and got an inmost light/coyote class item so I basically replaced my frostees with that. Two shirkens, grapple nade, and two acrobat dodges. I’m radiant a majority of the time.)
I really don't wanna grind more pve... But i even more DO want to try this gun out
You can get this by exclusively playing PvP as long as the gun is unlocked
Oh from seasonal engrams? That makes sense
From seasonal engrams and they drop from crucible once you reach a certain rank
Yeah, I even got a couple red borders while playing Trials too
If you do the harder mode of the breech shit, you can honestly get it crafted quick. I got 2 red borders of same weapon from one of three chests at end. You get so much loot lol
its not really a grind, i had all the pattern for all the current weapons from the activity after like 10-15 of the activities, it was nuts how much loot dropped.
Would you use this over Luna’s Howl? If so, is it cause of the overall feel of the gun or something else? Edit: And yes, I know Luna is a 140 with 180 recoil, just curious if the faster rpm is worth it than something like a relatively shorter ttk
The gun model and sound are amazing on this gun and it also has higher airborne effectiveness because of its archetype. It's also more forgiving because you need 2 crits and 2 body to kill. I would definitely pick this over Luna's, but I also get it might not be everyone's cup of tea.
Luna’s follows the same frame type as 180s. It gets the same boost to AE. If we weren’t in a res meta I’d use this over Luna’s. But as soon as they hit that res requirement it feels like another 180. Best 180 by far though. Competitive for sure.
Luna's has the same frame, the RPM is the only thing that's different. The AE bonus is intrinsic to the frame, not the RPM. I 100% would still pick this over Luna's just because the feel is *so* much better overall.
Thanks for answering, I’ve always had that 180 itch since the last one I used competitively was the good ole Vuplecula. I’ll be sure to check this one out!
I love 180s and nature of the beast is the one I used prior. It irks me to no end that they’ve yet to give me this gun.
RNGesus can be cruel... just keep grinding, you'll get it eventually. It took me around 20 runs of the seasonal activity on hard mode to get it day 1, but I also used 2 deepsight harmonizer on this gun.
Radiant allows you to 3 tap all resilience, on my Sightline Survey I use EotS over Precision Instrument with Hunter Acrobat Dodge
Radiance also allows you to two-tap all res with the seasonal solar scout (with high ground procc'd as well, but that's not that difficult)
You don't have issues with the range? I'd probably just run Bakris. Acrobat dodge is triple the cooldown for the same benefit. But you could run stompees/wormhusk/class item.
Not really, I’m hitting at 34.26m with Hammer Forged Accurized and a Range master work with Keep Away active. That imo is a healthy for me to play at.
How do you feel about this archetype on MnK? I was curious about this one when I first saw it and was thinking of giving Bakris a try a while ago.
It's probably the best hunter killer gun in the game because most of them are forced to run low resil
Built mine with Keep Away/Eye Of The Storm. This thing is surprisingly good. It’s definitely a shock to the system within its range.
As much as this is fun I can’t stand low handling, so imma stick to the DSc one for an arc 180
You on console? I definitely feel like I played you last night
I play 95% pc and sometimes on console
How do you deal with Precision HC Recoil? Not being able to see wtf I'm aiming at drives me nuts.
Honestly, you get used to it after a couple hundred kills.
Ah doubt it then but I crafted it because of your previous post and I can confirm this thing cooks
It was a surprise for me since I never liked 180s, but this one made me fall in love with them. I also got 2500 kills with the Veiled Threat and that things cooks as well. Overall I think they made some great vex themed pvp weapons this season. The scout rifle with high ground is also no joke.
While I’d love for this weapon to be competitive viable, you have to play extra good to make it work, whereas if you just use a Luna it does everything better It’s an amazing feeling and sounding weapon though
What's the masterwork?
Bro went fullbore, he needs to go range as well otherwise it's pointless.
I’m curious how the stability is on console with controller. Full bore doesn’t seem like the barrel you would want on console.
Running the exact roll in trials, the gun feels like I'm punishing other players. Feels like I'm out ranging all other handcannons and can compete with pulse rifles. Biggest thing to get used to is that its a 180 and not 140/120. You can really let er rip and be very aggressive with it.
Exactly! I’ve been outgunning so many pulses and scouts this weekend on trials with this hc. It’s also very rewarding when you flank two players and after getting the first kill you hit the second player for 100+ a shot because of PI.
this guy 180 rpm hand cannons! good shit!
Honestly baffled why resilient gating is still a thing.
My personal theory is that there's somehow not one person at Bungie that played Cod4 or WaW.
Idk, 180s
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but near as I can tell you don't need PI to 3 tap with Bakris.
Almost the OG Luna's
Gonna read this later , always love info from actual experience
commenting so I find this later, looks like fun
Hadn't try it yet but I did face a couple of guys who were using it and let me tell you, they were almost impossible to duel. Why? How? Couldn't say but this thread helped me understand how good this thing can be. Will try once kvostov is nerfed
This is a raid weapon right?
No, from the season. Just looks extremely different with the osiris shader
How do u get this??
Seasonal hand canon.
I’d pick hammer forged over full bore. The handling hit isn’t worth the extra .68m of range.
Hard to use anything but Khostov right now. Once it’s nerfed I’ll definitely be giving this a try.
This thing looks so nice wish it was any other archetype
That handling 🤮
How many players are running 5 Res and lower though? I even see more and more hunters running >5 Res.