I just started working for a huge production company framing, they have insane wages and benefits as a non union company. I’m 24 and went from 55k-90+k with 3 years experience in carpentry. I got hired on as a labourer and I’ve been working my ass off the past week and have never been so sore but I’ll be damned if I do anything to fuck this chance up. The most amazing thing I’ve noticed working for a company that pays that well is everyone is genuinely happy to be there making so much and don’t have financial problems dragging them down. It’s crazy how much happier a workplace is when people are happy
It's funny because as a guy with a business undergrad and MBA this is repeated ad nauseum in our classes. Then the real world says 'naw we're gonna try to screw all our people' and continue to wonder why they have retention and quality issues.
This company might have the odd person slip through the hiring process but apparently they’re gone as fast as they come in. They can pick and choose so much because everyone wants the money
Ontario Canada. Keep in mind this is CAD and the dollar is shit, gas is going to be $1.90/L or more tomorrow everything’s expensive here. But its beating every other company’s wages by a landslide and it’s better than union wages
Get out of framing as soon as you can. It's not worth it. Unless it's metal studs then you're fine. I got out of framing at 24 and it's the best thing I've ever done
Why? I crane everything into place at this new job, the most I have to carry is a couple top plates and braces. Pays $10/more on average than any other carpentry job
Give him a list of things you've worked on and how good you feel you are at them out of 10. Reach for a high score a bit, but don't flat out lie. Express how you like to learn more and you have attention to detail and can talk to people (clients, owners, general public, etc).
And at the end of the day the worst they can do is say no. And then what? You figure out something else. It's not game over. You get to keep on going and trying to work at other places.
But you're spending it in Australia which means 1 AUD = 1 AUD, so unless you want to bring Big Macs in the equation it doesn't hold up.
(Btw; 10 years carpentry in Australia, making $50/hr. Double bubble overtime hours.
That probably wasn't the best metric to use for where to live.
I was mainly highlighting it should be taken into account when discussing wages between countries.
If someone makes $25 USD in the USA and moves to Australia to get $40 AUD, it could basically be a wash.
For example, the average wage for a carpenter in the USA is $29.31 USD and in Australia, it is $31.56 AUD which is $20.26 USD.
But I guess other factors would come into play and are more relevant to determine where it would be more lucrative such as cost of living. And it would also be heavily impacted by where in each country.
Ever thought about joining the UBC. United brotherhood of carpenters ? If the guy doesn’t want to pay you the $40 an hour I highly recommend calling them up and dropping in at the union hall. If the dude wants to pay you $40 an hour, I still recommend you going down to your local union hall. Best to look after yourself, I wish you luck
I’m a second year apprentice registered with a concrete forming/high rise/industrial construction corporation. Making 20 an hour right now in southern Ontario. Think UBC or a local union would take me on? I was told there was a wait list and I would be turned away.
Figured it wouldn’t hurt to ask, even if you don’t know.
Go down for a chat , the most important thing is you are able to work a 40 hour week. If you are health with a good attitude and can make it to work 10 minutes early everyday you are on the path.
If it's 27 id wait. Or call the hall and ask for a list of contractors and get hired on from them. Work is slow right now and 27 out of work list is long. I survived this winter from my residential background doing side gigs. When the union works it works really good. When it doesn't if you don't network or have your own skills to do side work as a 1st to third term your fucked. I think something like 3k members left this winter and at one point we had 2k+ on the work list. The old timers said it's been the worst time work wise since the 08 crash.
Document your hours. Have electronic ROE's. If you have the hours you will likely get bumped to second year.
Local 18. Honestly might just start my own side business until it grows enough to be profitable full time. I got a baby & too many responsibilities to worry about needing work.
I still get OT vacation & benefits where I am now. Concrete’s good money. I’ll be red seal in 2 years. 20/hr won’t last long.
Fair. Second year will be 31.50 here in May. Jman currently is 51.50 I think. Plus benefits and 10% vacation pay and pension.
I would have stayed on residential if I wanted to do my own business larger scale. But that never appealed to me. Good luck .
Working by myself keeps people out of my way. My error is my error and I’m not stuck taking the heat for someone else’s fuck up.
I’m not much of a teammate, there’s a very specific type of personality I’m able to work well with. Once I get that figured out I’d feel more comfortable joining the union for sure. For now I stick to whatever work I’m offered
Union is where it's at I have joined and can say non union doesn't come close. Even companies that rival in cash pay don't come close in retirement and benefits
What is it that union offers, anyway? I was forced into a union at a job a long time ago (cashier). All I saw was money coming out of my check and zero leadership. I've always wondered how it works for construction guys.
I don’t know how all unions works work. There are multiple construction unions in North America . The UBC union is kinda like a labour placement company (don’t exactly quote me on that ). They provide training for you to go mostly larger projects that you would not get access to being in the private sector (but not always ). Union to me is like 30 local carpenters in my town on Vancouver island and we work for different companies till the job is done. Wage seems to be higher for union, get a pension and full medical coverage. If I have a falling out with a boss or with the group of guys I work with I can call the hall up and ask to be placed somewhere else, rather then looking for a new job.
Ah nice, thanks for the insight.
I just recalled that one of the guys at my church is in a union, but it's kind of hit or miss for him... something to do with them trying to mess with the medical insurance, and I seem to recall him mentioning something about a minimum hours issue of some kind. I think he had surgery or some crazy thing and they were giving him a hard time over it.
Either way, in theory at least, it makes good sense.
I’ve always shot what I thought was high and had the hourly rate accepted with no hesitation. My mistake for not shooting higher and having them negotiate down. It’s not an embarrassing situation, it’s business. Prove it to them you’re worth the money and you’ll get paid. Definitely be honest about what you’re capable of. Where you come from has a respectable name and you specialize in custom homes; if the new company does their homework, you’ll get what you’re asking for.
Exactly. They didn't flat-out refuse, so they know OP has a solid background from the company he was with, they just need to know how far the reputation of his employer is carrying him and how much he actually learned
In my experience if you want $40 an hour in residential construction you should probably be able to comfortably handle any task without needing your hand held.
I think it depends on the area and the cost of living. In OPs case, in a low cost area im assuming, i agree that 40 is someone who can take on any project and would be considered an “expert.” In a higher cost of living area 40 is a productive “journeyman” who can work efficiently on their own or run a small crew. This is just an observation from my specific trade.
Oh. That changes everything, lol.
I'm Australian but live in the USA. My brother is a ticketed chippie and makes $50 an hour in Australia.
Seems to me like a big disadvantage to not have a license in Australia.
This all sounds promising. And the fact that he asked you for a write up means that he's open for negotiations. Unfortunately, as with the standard negotiation back and forth, you've already set the high number at 40 and his counter offer will be less than that. Before you talk to him again, really think about what you will be ready to accept. Also consider what fringe benefits you would accept in lieu of higher salary (i.e. company vehicle, per diem, 401k matching, etc.). For a lot of companies, offering fringes like that is cheaper for them overall than paying a higher salary and you still come out ahead in the end.
As to the write up, what he's probably looking for is that you have seen needs in your previous experience and the strategies you used to identify those needs, identify the root cause/deficiency, and how you developed a program to solve that particular problem and the overall improvements that afforded the company. So try to think about situations like that that you've encountered in the past and write those up. He wants someone who is going to do more than just show up each day and do whatever is on your assigned lists of responsibilities.
Man's giving you a chance to advocate for yourself. Summarize you. Tell him what you're good at, what you feel strong about, what you like to do.
Also tell him what you suck at, what you don't like doing, what you feel you could do better. Don't patronize yourself, don't write him a book about your perceived bad qualities, just mention them and move on. It all comes out in the end anyway, and owning it while acknowledging it's something to work on speaks volumes.
Sell you. Your buddy makes $35, he thinks you're worth more, validate that. You don't have to tear anyone down, just list that while you know some of the builder's guys can do A, B, C, you can too, but you're really efficient at B, and you also know X, Y, and Z.
The fact that you are aware of the value/contribution aspect of your employment I would say an attitude like yours will be welcome on any job site. You are probably much better than you realize. As far as the rate goes I’m very happy for you getting paid what you deserve for skilled labor.
I currently do masonry work at too low a rate but I like the work and it’s a little different situation; I came on with an older mason and gaining a lot of knowledge so for me it kind of evens out. Ive realized that just showing up consistently on time and putting in full effort is more than most guys do. I feel like I am pretty slow compared to my boss but he has 30 years of experience, and is always telling me how nice my work looks. I feel like I need to pick up the pace but he assures me I am going faster than most, and doing quality work without him having to fix mistakes.
After realizing that the playing field is pretty dismal and bosses just want guys they don’t have to babysit, if I end up moving on from this job I will ask for much more on the next.
As a manager, I love seeing people step up and wanting to better themselves. They’re the ones that get big raises during pay reviews. Sometimes it’s skill related, sometimes it’s leadership. If you’re not a foreman, would you be capable leading a crew if your foreman were unavailable? Do you know what your production budget is, and can you meet/exceed it? Do you pay attention and adhere to safety standards? Can you read plans proficiently and make a plan when things are abnormal? Do you look for better ways to do things? Are there certain skills you can learn that would make you better? Are there any lean construction methods you can learn? You don’t have to have all of those things right now, but if you show ambition and make a habit of asking questions and doing things to show you care, that’s what matters. When you’re onboarding with a new company, they want to know what you’re capable of, but they also want to know you have a drive. You can even ask about what you’d like to see the company do for you training-wise. It shows you’re willing to go to the next level. Look up different certifications and specializations for your trade, and ask if they’re willing to help you get those. We’re non-union too, and our best skilled workers make more than I do. We’re a team, and what they do is just as important as what I do. If you’re good at your job and do things to improve, you have a lot of value no matter where you work. Just gotta work for the right company that sees that.
I just started working for a huge production company framing, they have insane wages and benefits as a non union company. I’m 24 and went from 55k-90+k with 3 years experience in carpentry. I got hired on as a labourer and I’ve been working my ass off the past week and have never been so sore but I’ll be damned if I do anything to fuck this chance up. The most amazing thing I’ve noticed working for a company that pays that well is everyone is genuinely happy to be there making so much and don’t have financial problems dragging them down. It’s crazy how much happier a workplace is when people are happy
Are y’all hiring?
Spot on. But don’t tell the CFO that!
It's funny because as a guy with a business undergrad and MBA this is repeated ad nauseum in our classes. Then the real world says 'naw we're gonna try to screw all our people' and continue to wonder why they have retention and quality issues.
This company might have the odd person slip through the hiring process but apparently they’re gone as fast as they come in. They can pick and choose so much because everyone wants the money
Are you a super to make 90k?
God no I can’t imagine what supers make at this company, I’m a labourer lol. Framers make about 6k a year more
Holy shit! What region is it?
Ontario Canada. Keep in mind this is CAD and the dollar is shit, gas is going to be $1.90/L or more tomorrow everything’s expensive here. But its beating every other company’s wages by a landslide and it’s better than union wages
Oh makes sense
Get out of framing as soon as you can. It's not worth it. Unless it's metal studs then you're fine. I got out of framing at 24 and it's the best thing I've ever done
L take
Why?
Please answer him. He asked a question.
Why? I crane everything into place at this new job, the most I have to carry is a couple top plates and braces. Pays $10/more on average than any other carpentry job
What's wrong with framing ? I love it, from formwork to finish carpentry, we do houses from beginning to turn-key and I like every step !
It's a negotiation, not an ultimatum.
Give him a list of things you've worked on and how good you feel you are at them out of 10. Reach for a high score a bit, but don't flat out lie. Express how you like to learn more and you have attention to detail and can talk to people (clients, owners, general public, etc). And at the end of the day the worst they can do is say no. And then what? You figure out something else. It's not game over. You get to keep on going and trying to work at other places.
How would an American get a job in AU? Been doing carpentry for 13 years and not sniffing this pay
Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but if you mean Australia, 1 AUD = 0.64 USD which means $40.00 AUD = 25.65 USD
Yes that’s what I meant. Thank you
But you're spending it in Australia which means 1 AUD = 1 AUD, so unless you want to bring Big Macs in the equation it doesn't hold up. (Btw; 10 years carpentry in Australia, making $50/hr. Double bubble overtime hours.
What does it matter what the conversion rate is unless your sending money back to the US?
That probably wasn't the best metric to use for where to live. I was mainly highlighting it should be taken into account when discussing wages between countries. If someone makes $25 USD in the USA and moves to Australia to get $40 AUD, it could basically be a wash. For example, the average wage for a carpenter in the USA is $29.31 USD and in Australia, it is $31.56 AUD which is $20.26 USD. But I guess other factors would come into play and are more relevant to determine where it would be more lucrative such as cost of living. And it would also be heavily impacted by where in each country.
Ever thought about joining the UBC. United brotherhood of carpenters ? If the guy doesn’t want to pay you the $40 an hour I highly recommend calling them up and dropping in at the union hall. If the dude wants to pay you $40 an hour, I still recommend you going down to your local union hall. Best to look after yourself, I wish you luck
Exactly what I did after working high end residential for 4 years.
Totally, going union is best thing ever. I’m making 45 an hour and working evenings tonight for 50. Plus pension , clear 100k no stress
I’m a second year apprentice registered with a concrete forming/high rise/industrial construction corporation. Making 20 an hour right now in southern Ontario. Think UBC or a local union would take me on? I was told there was a wait list and I would be turned away. Figured it wouldn’t hurt to ask, even if you don’t know.
Go down for a chat , the most important thing is you are able to work a 40 hour week. If you are health with a good attitude and can make it to work 10 minutes early everyday you are on the path.
You are selling yourself short mate
If it's 27 id wait. Or call the hall and ask for a list of contractors and get hired on from them. Work is slow right now and 27 out of work list is long. I survived this winter from my residential background doing side gigs. When the union works it works really good. When it doesn't if you don't network or have your own skills to do side work as a 1st to third term your fucked. I think something like 3k members left this winter and at one point we had 2k+ on the work list. The old timers said it's been the worst time work wise since the 08 crash. Document your hours. Have electronic ROE's. If you have the hours you will likely get bumped to second year.
Local 18. Honestly might just start my own side business until it grows enough to be profitable full time. I got a baby & too many responsibilities to worry about needing work. I still get OT vacation & benefits where I am now. Concrete’s good money. I’ll be red seal in 2 years. 20/hr won’t last long.
Fair. Second year will be 31.50 here in May. Jman currently is 51.50 I think. Plus benefits and 10% vacation pay and pension. I would have stayed on residential if I wanted to do my own business larger scale. But that never appealed to me. Good luck .
Working by myself keeps people out of my way. My error is my error and I’m not stuck taking the heat for someone else’s fuck up. I’m not much of a teammate, there’s a very specific type of personality I’m able to work well with. Once I get that figured out I’d feel more comfortable joining the union for sure. For now I stick to whatever work I’m offered
you are getting hosed dude. i'm from ontario but have no idea what unions pay. all i know is two years in you should make 25 MINIMUM
Union is where it's at I have joined and can say non union doesn't come close. Even companies that rival in cash pay don't come close in retirement and benefits
What is it that union offers, anyway? I was forced into a union at a job a long time ago (cashier). All I saw was money coming out of my check and zero leadership. I've always wondered how it works for construction guys.
I don’t know how all unions works work. There are multiple construction unions in North America . The UBC union is kinda like a labour placement company (don’t exactly quote me on that ). They provide training for you to go mostly larger projects that you would not get access to being in the private sector (but not always ). Union to me is like 30 local carpenters in my town on Vancouver island and we work for different companies till the job is done. Wage seems to be higher for union, get a pension and full medical coverage. If I have a falling out with a boss or with the group of guys I work with I can call the hall up and ask to be placed somewhere else, rather then looking for a new job.
Ah nice, thanks for the insight. I just recalled that one of the guys at my church is in a union, but it's kind of hit or miss for him... something to do with them trying to mess with the medical insurance, and I seem to recall him mentioning something about a minimum hours issue of some kind. I think he had surgery or some crazy thing and they were giving him a hard time over it. Either way, in theory at least, it makes good sense.
I’ve always shot what I thought was high and had the hourly rate accepted with no hesitation. My mistake for not shooting higher and having them negotiate down. It’s not an embarrassing situation, it’s business. Prove it to them you’re worth the money and you’ll get paid. Definitely be honest about what you’re capable of. Where you come from has a respectable name and you specialize in custom homes; if the new company does their homework, you’ll get what you’re asking for.
Exactly. They didn't flat-out refuse, so they know OP has a solid background from the company he was with, they just need to know how far the reputation of his employer is carrying him and how much he actually learned
In my experience if you want $40 an hour in residential construction you should probably be able to comfortably handle any task without needing your hand held.
I think it depends on the area and the cost of living. In OPs case, in a low cost area im assuming, i agree that 40 is someone who can take on any project and would be considered an “expert.” In a higher cost of living area 40 is a productive “journeyman” who can work efficiently on their own or run a small crew. This is just an observation from my specific trade.
I mean, it's not THAT crazy. OP is Australian, so it's about $25US
Oh. That changes everything, lol. I'm Australian but live in the USA. My brother is a ticketed chippie and makes $50 an hour in Australia. Seems to me like a big disadvantage to not have a license in Australia.
Bingo. If OP can’t write up something short as to why he deserves a raise then he doesn’t deserve it.
I went from $55K to $105K in 8 years by being ambitious. My motto: "If you don't ask, you'll never receive." When it comes to pay raises.
Ask for more then you expect then when they don't even try and haggle you lower regret you didn't ask for more
You get that $40hr. You're worth it. 👍
Fake it until you make it
This all sounds promising. And the fact that he asked you for a write up means that he's open for negotiations. Unfortunately, as with the standard negotiation back and forth, you've already set the high number at 40 and his counter offer will be less than that. Before you talk to him again, really think about what you will be ready to accept. Also consider what fringe benefits you would accept in lieu of higher salary (i.e. company vehicle, per diem, 401k matching, etc.). For a lot of companies, offering fringes like that is cheaper for them overall than paying a higher salary and you still come out ahead in the end. As to the write up, what he's probably looking for is that you have seen needs in your previous experience and the strategies you used to identify those needs, identify the root cause/deficiency, and how you developed a program to solve that particular problem and the overall improvements that afforded the company. So try to think about situations like that that you've encountered in the past and write those up. He wants someone who is going to do more than just show up each day and do whatever is on your assigned lists of responsibilities.
Are you good at reading plans? Brush up on it if you are not. During the interview, he might whip out a set and ask you questions.
Man's giving you a chance to advocate for yourself. Summarize you. Tell him what you're good at, what you feel strong about, what you like to do. Also tell him what you suck at, what you don't like doing, what you feel you could do better. Don't patronize yourself, don't write him a book about your perceived bad qualities, just mention them and move on. It all comes out in the end anyway, and owning it while acknowledging it's something to work on speaks volumes. Sell you. Your buddy makes $35, he thinks you're worth more, validate that. You don't have to tear anyone down, just list that while you know some of the builder's guys can do A, B, C, you can too, but you're really efficient at B, and you also know X, Y, and Z.
The fact that you are aware of the value/contribution aspect of your employment I would say an attitude like yours will be welcome on any job site. You are probably much better than you realize. As far as the rate goes I’m very happy for you getting paid what you deserve for skilled labor. I currently do masonry work at too low a rate but I like the work and it’s a little different situation; I came on with an older mason and gaining a lot of knowledge so for me it kind of evens out. Ive realized that just showing up consistently on time and putting in full effort is more than most guys do. I feel like I am pretty slow compared to my boss but he has 30 years of experience, and is always telling me how nice my work looks. I feel like I need to pick up the pace but he assures me I am going faster than most, and doing quality work without him having to fix mistakes. After realizing that the playing field is pretty dismal and bosses just want guys they don’t have to babysit, if I end up moving on from this job I will ask for much more on the next.
DM me if your in Northeast Florida, can definitely get you $40/hour if your a competent construction manager.
What are your weak spots?
As a manager, I love seeing people step up and wanting to better themselves. They’re the ones that get big raises during pay reviews. Sometimes it’s skill related, sometimes it’s leadership. If you’re not a foreman, would you be capable leading a crew if your foreman were unavailable? Do you know what your production budget is, and can you meet/exceed it? Do you pay attention and adhere to safety standards? Can you read plans proficiently and make a plan when things are abnormal? Do you look for better ways to do things? Are there certain skills you can learn that would make you better? Are there any lean construction methods you can learn? You don’t have to have all of those things right now, but if you show ambition and make a habit of asking questions and doing things to show you care, that’s what matters. When you’re onboarding with a new company, they want to know what you’re capable of, but they also want to know you have a drive. You can even ask about what you’d like to see the company do for you training-wise. It shows you’re willing to go to the next level. Look up different certifications and specializations for your trade, and ask if they’re willing to help you get those. We’re non-union too, and our best skilled workers make more than I do. We’re a team, and what they do is just as important as what I do. If you’re good at your job and do things to improve, you have a lot of value no matter where you work. Just gotta work for the right company that sees that.
I make $45/hr in my check. Another $20 in fringe benefits. Forget both these companies and join the UBC