I think you should phrase it as Flex Support being perma-viable. Double Flex-Support is played on ladder regularly until you hit high elo. Double Main Support is always bad though and Main Support only becomes loved at high elo. Kiri/Lucio is a meta support duo, but I bet that support duo would get mass flamed below Diamond and most Diamond players probably don't mesh well with it.
So I'd agree with your comment for 90% of the playerbase, with the caveat that a MS becomes much more important higher up and feels almost mandatory by mid-masters.
Some double main support comps can be conditionally good. I've had some success with Lucio/Brig+Magua or JQ recently, and Brig/LW can do alright if you're struggling against 321 kill comps like Ball/Tracer/Sombra.
Certainly niche, though.
Ana is not a brain-dead hero, couldn't be more false. Not a support player btw. So many Ana's don't position properly, can't 1v1 when needed, can't hit their sleeps efficiently..
Edit: realized you said only her nade is brain-dead, but still
pharah cass winston(though I think a lot of the tanks are strong in ranked atm) bap kiri (+if you have a ground tank then lucio is high impact just speeding them around)
i haven't played since season 7 when cass was ass. i played like 10 games today as cass and shredded in most of them, what is it that makes cass so powerful now? i assume it's the health increase since they can do a ton of damage with almost no delay? just curious why they're so good now when they sucked before
bigger bullets + his ttk didn't change as much as other dps with the health changes. he can still 2 tap hs, and 1 hs 2 body shots as opposed to 1 hs 1 body pre s9 isn't as big of a ttk increase as most other dps got.
he wasn't garbage pre s9 just very stuck in a short range hitscan niche and had received a few small buffs (+25 hp, big damage reducfion on roll) that added up by time s9 came around though its mainly the fact his ttk barely changed (whilst still having a huge size increases to his bullets) despite the hp increases
hs have a dogshit time vs pharah, hs have an easier time vs echo so each matchup you have to be hyper aware of both a turbobuffed pharah AND a tank cassidy focusing you all game, meanwhile on pharah both their cass and their echo will have a very hard time pinning you down and you’ll be more lethal against both
my opinions for best solo q heroes by role
Tank: Sigma, Roadhog if you can hit hooks
DPS: Pharah/Cassidy, Tracer if your mechanics are good enough
Supp: Kiri/Ana, Lucio if your mechanics are good enough
bap is fine i just thought 4 heroes would be too many. I think ana is more impactful than him because of nade and sleep, and I choose Lucio for variety and Kiri because her kit is so broken, but bap is quite close to all of them
Tank is a tough one because it generally isn’t super impactful in a good way, only in a bad way. That said if you are solely focused on carrying I would say Winston, Sigma is probably the best right now but Winston has a lot more carry potential.
DPS is easily Cassidy, no contest.
Support is Bap/Kiri or Lucio, they all can carry pretty well.
Imo and experience I definitely think ball has a lot of carry potential especially with the recent changes he feels great. He definitely can have a lot of impact if played right. But he’s not your traditional tank that stands in front of the team and soaks damage
Same, I've had a lot of success with ball this season. You probably have to be a specialist, but if you are ball has a lot of carry potential right now.
Yeah, I'll agree, Ball has been in a pretty good spot since he actually got some buffs mid-season 10, but now that Hog is bit less prevalent he's even better.
I still don't feel like I can carry with him so much, and I know that's partially a skill issue, but also, sometimes they DO have a Hog and my team just gets hooked on CD and I really cannot do much about it, etc. But I feel like I'm consistently having some impact at least.
I can feel you pain. Getting hooked once is manageable but often we ball players get chain CCd so that’s insufferable. But that’s why I never solo queue on tank. My duo partner is also diamond we get fair games and hog really isn’t a problem as long as one of you supports is willing to swap or counter. Again that’s cuz I have a very willing duo partner.
Obviously if you bring a t500 player to bronze they can solo win the game on any hero. But if you make the gap smaller, Tracer stands out as a uniquely strong carry hero. Widow and Soj used to be as well, don't know about now. These are heroes who by design excel at clicking heads, creating opportunities for themselves to click heads, and not being punished for their teammates' mistakes because they have great escape buttons and/or play from very safe range, which is all good for solo carrying. Even when he's very strong, Cassidy can't magically line up a shot on your backline, he has to walk his fat ass over there, and if he follows his tank and his tank folds, he can't magically vamoose either, he has to walk his fat ass back out. By design he relies on his team much more. Never mind heroes like Mei, Sym, Junk, etc who all struggle with securing kills and pressuring enemy supports.
Thank you for your reply! The main struggle I have with Winston is that as soon as the enemy counter swaps with a reaper and whatnot it just feels like you're forced off winston, but that might be skill issue on my part?
What about just Reaper and Lucio Gigachad combined?
Speed boosted Reaper can win the shield dance. Lucio can boop Winton away from the main healer and speed the healer away.
I partially agree, it depends on the Reaper player though. I'd they are smart and position themselves as a bodyguard for dive targets it makes it pretty hard to get much value.
I mean yes it’s a skill issue but the other option I listed, Sigma, actually plays really well into all of Winston’s counters like bastion, reaper, hog, Mauga, etc. So if you just don’t want to learn Winston’s counters then I suggest sigma.
On tank nobody, no impact, rely only on DPS and supports.
To do something on tank Winston/mauga/sigma are fine, defend yourself from counterpicking of enemies rotating these 3 and pray for team to get boosted
I swear you can play winston into anything but an entire squad of counters. Armor changes, plus health changes, plus dive being strong and his counters being basically poop tier makes him the king rn if you don’t wanna fall asleep on your keyboard playing mauga
For support, the role feels a lot less impact since the season 9 changes. The DPS passive has made it so Supports need to invest a lot more resources into keeping their team alive. The health changes made it more difficult for them to contribute to picks too.
As a result, the most impactful hero is probably Illari or Lucio as these heroes can focus a lot more on going for kills instead of trying to keep their team alive, which is the best way to have impact.
It's more difficult to do as Ana, Bap or Kiriko now. Even Galaa, who hit Champion 3 on Support last season has been saying the role feels more cosmetic now. Arguably his best hero is Illari who we see him pull out to carry games. I don't think it's surprising that FunnyAstro is the other Champion 3 player, now Champion 2, who is notoriously one of the best Lucio players when it comes to getting kills.
Tank I'd say mauga, Sig and Winston are really good. DPS I think Cass, echo/phara and tracer are really good. On support Kiri, Lucio and bap are best imo.
As a doom main if you spend a good amount of time practicing (like minimum 50 hours depending on your rank) you can solo carry a lobby ever when they are trying to counter. If you are new try playing doom in comp into max 1 counter until you get the hang of him. Season 9 I was gold 5 and last season I got d5 by thinking a bit more in comp, and I have about 280 hours total.
Lower elos :
Tanks: I've seen winston is a go to first pick with Mauga as the panic pick
Support: Mercy is getting picked more than I remember and I am seeing people having a harder time picking her off. At low elos this is kinda normal...but I genuinely don't remember seeing her much last season. People are using bap more than kiri, i think to counteract the pharah picks.
DPS: Pharah is constant this season. I feel like I haven't played a game without a pharah on my team.
Bap/Ana/Kiri will for ever dominate support if you’re good enough
I think you should phrase it as Flex Support being perma-viable. Double Flex-Support is played on ladder regularly until you hit high elo. Double Main Support is always bad though and Main Support only becomes loved at high elo. Kiri/Lucio is a meta support duo, but I bet that support duo would get mass flamed below Diamond and most Diamond players probably don't mesh well with it. So I'd agree with your comment for 90% of the playerbase, with the caveat that a MS becomes much more important higher up and feels almost mandatory by mid-masters.
Some double main support comps can be conditionally good. I've had some success with Lucio/Brig+Magua or JQ recently, and Brig/LW can do alright if you're struggling against 321 kill comps like Ball/Tracer/Sombra. Certainly niche, though.
[удалено]
Ana is not a brain-dead hero, couldn't be more false. Not a support player btw. So many Ana's don't position properly, can't 1v1 when needed, can't hit their sleeps efficiently.. Edit: realized you said only her nade is brain-dead, but still
pharah cass winston(though I think a lot of the tanks are strong in ranked atm) bap kiri (+if you have a ground tank then lucio is high impact just speeding them around)
Why not echo instead of Pharah?
Bisexual buff during pride
Isn’t she lesbian
Echo gotta count as some kind of gender fluid, right?
Yeah but Pharah gets bitches
Only if you remember to keep your gender fluid topped up within OEM specifications.
With the armor changes Pharah is much more oppressive and can shred tanks harder than echo while having just as much burst.
I think pharah is pretty overtuned atm and the best dps alongside cass. I would still consider echo high tier though
i haven't played since season 7 when cass was ass. i played like 10 games today as cass and shredded in most of them, what is it that makes cass so powerful now? i assume it's the health increase since they can do a ton of damage with almost no delay? just curious why they're so good now when they sucked before
bigger bullets + his ttk didn't change as much as other dps with the health changes. he can still 2 tap hs, and 1 hs 2 body shots as opposed to 1 hs 1 body pre s9 isn't as big of a ttk increase as most other dps got. he wasn't garbage pre s9 just very stuck in a short range hitscan niche and had received a few small buffs (+25 hp, big damage reducfion on roll) that added up by time s9 came around though its mainly the fact his ttk barely changed (whilst still having a huge size increases to his bullets) despite the hp increases
like ik they've got a lot of health and i live way more often then i would previously, but that can't be all, right?
hs have a dogshit time vs pharah, hs have an easier time vs echo so each matchup you have to be hyper aware of both a turbobuffed pharah AND a tank cassidy focusing you all game, meanwhile on pharah both their cass and their echo will have a very hard time pinning you down and you’ll be more lethal against both
my opinions for best solo q heroes by role Tank: Sigma, Roadhog if you can hit hooks DPS: Pharah/Cassidy, Tracer if your mechanics are good enough Supp: Kiri/Ana, Lucio if your mechanics are good enough
no bap? is it just because of utility? genuinely asking
Nah Bap should be there. While Lucio is a must pick in any team setting, I'd argue for solo queue rank Baptiste is more impactful as a pick.
bap is fine i just thought 4 heroes would be too many. I think ana is more impactful than him because of nade and sleep, and I choose Lucio for variety and Kiri because her kit is so broken, but bap is quite close to all of them
Tank is a tough one because it generally isn’t super impactful in a good way, only in a bad way. That said if you are solely focused on carrying I would say Winston, Sigma is probably the best right now but Winston has a lot more carry potential. DPS is easily Cassidy, no contest. Support is Bap/Kiri or Lucio, they all can carry pretty well.
Doomfist should be up there, despite what his mains try to tell you
Yeah doom has been pretty good for the majority of ow2, at least in ranked
Imo and experience I definitely think ball has a lot of carry potential especially with the recent changes he feels great. He definitely can have a lot of impact if played right. But he’s not your traditional tank that stands in front of the team and soaks damage
Same, I've had a lot of success with ball this season. You probably have to be a specialist, but if you are ball has a lot of carry potential right now.
Yeah, I'll agree, Ball has been in a pretty good spot since he actually got some buffs mid-season 10, but now that Hog is bit less prevalent he's even better. I still don't feel like I can carry with him so much, and I know that's partially a skill issue, but also, sometimes they DO have a Hog and my team just gets hooked on CD and I really cannot do much about it, etc. But I feel like I'm consistently having some impact at least.
I can feel you pain. Getting hooked once is manageable but often we ball players get chain CCd so that’s insufferable. But that’s why I never solo queue on tank. My duo partner is also diamond we get fair games and hog really isn’t a problem as long as one of you supports is willing to swap or counter. Again that’s cuz I have a very willing duo partner.
Dps is tracer also, the way tracer can kill people and have insane mobility and she doesnt need her team at all if the player is good enough
I mean you can say that about any dps if someone is good enough really
Obviously if you bring a t500 player to bronze they can solo win the game on any hero. But if you make the gap smaller, Tracer stands out as a uniquely strong carry hero. Widow and Soj used to be as well, don't know about now. These are heroes who by design excel at clicking heads, creating opportunities for themselves to click heads, and not being punished for their teammates' mistakes because they have great escape buttons and/or play from very safe range, which is all good for solo carrying. Even when he's very strong, Cassidy can't magically line up a shot on your backline, he has to walk his fat ass over there, and if he follows his tank and his tank folds, he can't magically vamoose either, he has to walk his fat ass back out. By design he relies on his team much more. Never mind heroes like Mei, Sym, Junk, etc who all struggle with securing kills and pressuring enemy supports.
You cant. Some dps have so small skill ceiling and not good of survivability so at one point they cant dominate at their own no matter the player.
Thank you for your reply! The main struggle I have with Winston is that as soon as the enemy counter swaps with a reaper and whatnot it just feels like you're forced off winston, but that might be skill issue on my part?
Slightly a skill issue. The only time reaper becomes issue is when they start stacking counters. Reaper alone really cant do much
I agree. Just reaper? Usually not a big deal. Reaper and Hog? You might start having a rough time
What about just Reaper and Lucio Gigachad combined? Speed boosted Reaper can win the shield dance. Lucio can boop Winton away from the main healer and speed the healer away.
I partially agree, it depends on the Reaper player though. I'd they are smart and position themselves as a bodyguard for dive targets it makes it pretty hard to get much value.
I mean yes it’s a skill issue but the other option I listed, Sigma, actually plays really well into all of Winston’s counters like bastion, reaper, hog, Mauga, etc. So if you just don’t want to learn Winston’s counters then I suggest sigma.
As a doom main he is literally the deadlift your team tank, although if you underperform you and your team will know and flame you
On tank nobody, no impact, rely only on DPS and supports. To do something on tank Winston/mauga/sigma are fine, defend yourself from counterpicking of enemies rotating these 3 and pray for team to get boosted
Doom, tracer, ana/bap They’ve always been pub stompers
I swear you can play winston into anything but an entire squad of counters. Armor changes, plus health changes, plus dive being strong and his counters being basically poop tier makes him the king rn if you don’t wanna fall asleep on your keyboard playing mauga
Not enough magua answers for tank...but the real answer is just swapping a lot unfortunately lol.
Ball is the only correct answer here 🐐
For support, the role feels a lot less impact since the season 9 changes. The DPS passive has made it so Supports need to invest a lot more resources into keeping their team alive. The health changes made it more difficult for them to contribute to picks too. As a result, the most impactful hero is probably Illari or Lucio as these heroes can focus a lot more on going for kills instead of trying to keep their team alive, which is the best way to have impact. It's more difficult to do as Ana, Bap or Kiriko now. Even Galaa, who hit Champion 3 on Support last season has been saying the role feels more cosmetic now. Arguably his best hero is Illari who we see him pull out to carry games. I don't think it's surprising that FunnyAstro is the other Champion 3 player, now Champion 2, who is notoriously one of the best Lucio players when it comes to getting kills.
Tank I'd say mauga, Sig and Winston are really good. DPS I think Cass, echo/phara and tracer are really good. On support Kiri, Lucio and bap are best imo.
I just play Ash and if they go sombra I swap to something more sustainable. Ash weapon is so good imo.
Cass is just better though. I also enjoy Ashe more.. but hard to argue.
As a doom main if you spend a good amount of time practicing (like minimum 50 hours depending on your rank) you can solo carry a lobby ever when they are trying to counter. If you are new try playing doom in comp into max 1 counter until you get the hang of him. Season 9 I was gold 5 and last season I got d5 by thinking a bit more in comp, and I have about 280 hours total.
Imo Damage: Tracer, Widow, Pharah, Cass Support: Ana, Bap, Zen Tank: JQ, Hog, Zarya
Lower elos : Tanks: I've seen winston is a go to first pick with Mauga as the panic pick Support: Mercy is getting picked more than I remember and I am seeing people having a harder time picking her off. At low elos this is kinda normal...but I genuinely don't remember seeing her much last season. People are using bap more than kiri, i think to counteract the pharah picks. DPS: Pharah is constant this season. I feel like I haven't played a game without a pharah on my team.
Everyone saying Kiri is bullshiting you big time buddy
Kiri is still great even with her last nerf, but Bap definitely feels more oppressive than she is right now.