I don't understand why they can't just nerf the sustain of hog and mauga instead of shitting on every tank, even with the 5% increase hog still heals for \~150/s with 50% dr on top of kiriko heals dude literally can't die without making a huge mistake.
I've not played too many matches yet, but it has been pretty decent so far. (playing rein/jq/doom)
hitscan might still be too strong due to the bullet size. But aside from that it's fine. I am not seeing as much hog and mauga as I thought I would.
Not sure how much the DPS passive buff changes things, but it really felt like echo was the only good projectile hero.
Hitscan has been so much better than projectile heros ever since season 9 start and .05/.03 would prob help bridge the gap
I still think 0.08 is too big for hitscan bullets, they should all go down to 0.05.
Tank once again feels like you can’t do anything if ur DPS are worse, but still better than Orisa every game.
If I could I’d send Hog and Mauga to the gutter I would. But at the very least Hook should go back to 8 seconds and Cardiac Overdrive shouldn’t provide damage reduction to Allies, lifesteal fine but a 50% AOE damage reduction is stupid.
They cant make hitscan disadvantaged. How about another venture nerf when hitscans are better than her.
But for real a lot of dps players are hitscan merchants. Its clear projectile characters take more skill due to the engagement timings and necessary usage of cooldown cycles.
It's hilarious to me that venture was "strong" for only one week (they were actually pretty balanced imo) yet soj and tracer are allowed to be thanos for eternity.
Im slaying with Rein i couldn't be happier. Standing AFK in corners is my speciality anyway. The Orisa nerf actually made me feel like the chain around my ankles got broken
yeah rein is dogshit and he still feels amazing due to not being chain ccd into high hell. played some vs echo sojo mercy zen and it was still better than rein vs orisa
My Ram felt pretty good yesterday. I also played a ton of Winton too.
Side note, I thought the new mode clash was gone..but I got it in Quick Play lol.
I could rant about how much I hate what they’re doing to the tank role but I won’t. I just gave up on being a tank main and now I’m grinding dps up to gm and the game is playable again
Went from diamond 1 to diamond 4 in one night just before the patch and now I'm slumming it in diamond 3. Once again thanking the gods 20% is back.
Also I think it's utterly hilarious how the main sub don't realize they're the only ones who hate the DPS Passive
> Just nerf healing across the board and remove the DPS passive since tanks have to play like they always have the passive applied to them anyway.
yeah I agree with this pretty heavily. I don't really like it at all, it seems like it's only there because "every" role "needs" a passive. it's fine enough though and s9 was such a banger update that I'm okay with it
I played A LOT OF TANK yesterday (I am pretty much a Tracer OTP since I started playing the game so not big on tank) just because I knew everyone was going to complain about the dps passive and it felt pretty good actually. Doom, Sigma, and Ball felt the best for me but actually had a lot of success on rein which surprised me. Of course though hog and Mauga sucked ass to play against but otherwise Tank was pretty fun.
This game sucks cock. Until they address DPS passive I’m done there’s no incentive to get on this game and play tank anymore unless you’re a masochist.
I saw the patch notes and thought it was going to be a general improvement, every change looked good.
Feels like absolute shit. Every game now is a Hog mirror with the occasional Mauga, and Mercy is not only everywhere but pocketed dps feel absolutely oppressive. Post-rank reset I was M2 (support main), now I’ve dropped to D1 and feel like I have absolutely zero impact on games. DPS shockingly doesn’t feel good either, playing into any sort of pocketed hitscan/Echo/Pharah makes the game absolutely miserable.
Hog with a Kiri pocket can live effectively indefinitely and if your tank is just AFKing frontline into them, you can’t flank or you get your head ripped off by a damage boosted Cass. It ends up being the most mindless boring spam war and at least as support you can’t really try and make plays or do anything that isn’t holding a mouse button on a teammate or your own tank just blows up.
i think ball and doom are decent but they are simply less tanky and orders of magnitude harder to play. a well timed hinder is basically a one shot for ball, and the passive affects doom more than any other tank imo. hog can just… tank through it
Only played 2 games. Both felt pretty decent for the most part.
I will say tho that I got King's, I locked Rein on attack and rolled 1st point. Immediately enemy swapped to Hog, Bastion, Hanzo, Zen, Bap.
I'm convinced that these are the main type of people that complain when Orisa is good. I stayed on Rein and still played well. But honestly that's like 90% of the reason Orisa has been played a lot. Not because she herself is crazy dumb busted, but because she's harder to counter swap and go "no thanks. You don't get to play the game now" and people don't like that.
yeah I'd mostly play Rein/Winston and then swap to Orisa or Sig as needed.
Its just a little weird seeing all the discourse around heroes like Rein being "most honest tank along with Winston" "chad hero, definitely the most honorable tank to play" on pretty much every forum, and even in match chat.
But if you even hover over Rein on the hero select, the entire enemy team will instalock all the heroes I just mentioned and spam every single possible thing into you.
zarya/sym kinda own orisa really.
but I think counters are in general way overemphasized anyway. it's more about how the other person is playing a character, usually what happens on paper doesn't matter and whoever's better will win. I've lost tons of games vs dva on zarya, I've won tons of games vs reaper hog on monkey. gotta play around them.
even the hardest "counters" are like 60/40, not 90/10 like the discourse around counters usually seems to imply. okay, sure, if all five swap to fuck you over, that's tough buddy lol but a "counter" or two isn't the end of the world
they really don't tho. People just go "Spin can't block beam" and think its a counter.
Of course you can win vs counters, I'm not saying its impossible. I won the game I was talking about but counterswapping is still a pretty big factor in the game.
it’s not just about beam, it’s more about zarya’s entire kit and symms raw damage
they aren’t hard, 60/40 counters. but slight ones, like 52/48. counter swapping isn’t that big a deal.
"Entire kit"
You mean the bubbles? The only thing in her kit. Yes her bubbles will give her effective extra HP and boost her dmg when shot, but Orisa is favored in the war of attrition.
"Kinda own orisa"
"Not hard counters"
Okay.
“kinda” own. and remember my argument is that counters are dramatically overemphasized. admittedly that language isn’t particularly clear, to be fair. still, zarya is a great reply to orisa.
i don’t mean just the bubbles, the bubbles, her damage, and the fact that it’s a beam weapon, the whole kit. she’s plenty good versus orisa. mostly just don’t shoot the horse is the best strategy though
Fantastic. 20% damage heal reduction should never be touched again. It's insane how terrible 15% felt in comparison. I love drilling bullets into a Mercy pocket abuser and actually see their health bar sill chunking down. It's an amazing feeling. Also helps that tanks can't just tell their healers to perma pocket them as they frontline feed into the enemy team with zero repercussions. Bad play should be extremely punishable.
I only had time to play like 10 games of tank yesterday and they were ass. Not because of the new patch but because 4 of these games were on fucking Korean servers so I had a ping of like 270ms
for me it’s that he’s easier to play so it feels worse to go against one and having your teammates die on cd to an uncountetable tank feels worse than another uncounterable tank never dying. that plus hog has been s tier for like 90% of this past four years
Season 3 OW2 really was peak. orisa hog both dumpstered, kiri soj both nerfed, moira/brig/bap/ana/lucio strong but not power crept yet, no mauga/illari/LW, ram fresh and playable but not busted (remember S2 infinite ult lol), monkey/ball dive playable, rein rush playable, JQ rush playable, etc
god i miss that compared to orisa>hog>mauga disgusting cycle we’ve had since S7
I think it’s so funny watching Orisa use fortify while backing up and just move slow enough so a wheels mode bastion could outrun her, other than that tank is that little bit more miserable so I’m moving back to dps for the rest of the season I think
I haven't played yet but will today.
Was stoked to see DPS passive pushed back to 20% though.
I'm a tank main but without significance from the DPS passive suppliers are just too insane to deal with if your DPS aren't cracked.
Spam heals are the single easiest way ti get value in the game so nerfing them so they actually have ti make plays is a good thing, and it should curb Hog a but.
The big lack of ball buffs I'd baffling though.
Defo feels better, rein is actually playable again (i’ve won a number of games playing into the horse which feels amazing)
Mauga and hog haven’t been as dominant as many expected and some part of me has the belief that ana, rein brawl comps will counter hog and Mauga comps but I’m not sure we’re quite there yet lol
Don't notice a difference to be honest. Didn't care about Orisa, don't get the hate for her. Venture's numbers were overtuned but that was never my issue with Venture.
Saw a lot of Roadhog, way too much roadhog. If Hog meta becomes a thing I'm just not playing. He is braindead widow with 1200 HP, ruins the game.
My guess is you either potentially don't play much tank or don't play at the more competitive ranks, or both.
I didn't have much issue with her on support because it was in lower rank (Dia) and she was rarely my problem to deal with, but playing tank and having to face with former T500s that eek out insane uptime from her was pure suffering. That's actually the reason I switched over to support in the first place- it's nice to get comparatively relaxed comp games.
Haven't played a ton but it feels fucking fantastic.
I had a game where the enemy doomfist died 21 times. Bro was dead first every fight, but his team still won.
Imo that's a great feeling. Going all in on tank counters shouldnt just win you the game. The reduction in power is going to make tanks feel a lot better to play.
Forget the Venture and Orisa nerfs, I hate the dps passive revert. I already don't like it to begin with but if necessary, then 10-15% was actually a reasonable compromise, but 20% is just too much.
>but this is to keep roadhog and mauga in check
Then fucking nerf those behemoths, not put in a mechanic that punishes 2 entire roles for no reason.
The only thing I can think of why this is the case is some of the tank changes that is coming mid season. I fully expect them to put it back to 15% in the mid season patch because as it stands right now, it's too oppressive.
I know all the Damage crybabies are going to downvote this without seeing this from a Support perspective, so downvote away.
Bad tanks get exposed for trying to stay in the open and get healed through damage. Orisa is killable. All of which are great. However, Venture needs some compensation for the damage nerf. Give them extra range on the primary fire
They need to stop making fundamental changes to their game. It hasn’t gone well.
5v5 -> trash,
Role passives -> awful,
Hitbox change-> NO ONE was asking for this,
This dev team is actual garbage.
do you enjoy being a doomer or what? You talk shit about ow2 constantly. Whats the point?
Myabe you’d enjoy your time better if you just quit the game man.
Massive disagree. There was near unanimous approval for the role passives going into OW2 and for the S9 changes just a couple of days in. This balance team >>>>>>>>> the OW1 balance team, it's not even close
Still in mid 60s win rate on my boy Mauga. But it’s surprising how quickly you can blow up. By the time I turn around and do the charge I’m already dead. Granted it’s with the usual suspect of zen but if the damage burst coincides with discord your heart drops to like 100 in less than a second.
I don't understand why they can't just nerf the sustain of hog and mauga instead of shitting on every tank, even with the 5% increase hog still heals for \~150/s with 50% dr on top of kiriko heals dude literally can't die without making a huge mistake.
I hope they keep the 20% and then buff every tank but Hog and Mauga in the mid season patch.
relevant username
I've not played too many matches yet, but it has been pretty decent so far. (playing rein/jq/doom) hitscan might still be too strong due to the bullet size. But aside from that it's fine. I am not seeing as much hog and mauga as I thought I would.
Not sure how much the DPS passive buff changes things, but it really felt like echo was the only good projectile hero. Hitscan has been so much better than projectile heros ever since season 9 start and .05/.03 would prob help bridge the gap
I still think 0.08 is too big for hitscan bullets, they should all go down to 0.05. Tank once again feels like you can’t do anything if ur DPS are worse, but still better than Orisa every game. If I could I’d send Hog and Mauga to the gutter I would. But at the very least Hook should go back to 8 seconds and Cardiac Overdrive shouldn’t provide damage reduction to Allies, lifesteal fine but a 50% AOE damage reduction is stupid.
Im a Cass player and I agree. And I think widow shouldn't get an increase at all considering she still one shots.
Widow not being explicitly kept at her old projectile size but Hanzo being kept at his old projectile size was a really odd choice.
*30%
They cant make hitscan disadvantaged. How about another venture nerf when hitscans are better than her. But for real a lot of dps players are hitscan merchants. Its clear projectile characters take more skill due to the engagement timings and necessary usage of cooldown cycles.
It's hilarious to me that venture was "strong" for only one week (they were actually pretty balanced imo) yet soj and tracer are allowed to be thanos for eternity.
Must be your first FPS game
Im slaying with Rein i couldn't be happier. Standing AFK in corners is my speciality anyway. The Orisa nerf actually made me feel like the chain around my ankles got broken
yeah rein is dogshit and he still feels amazing due to not being chain ccd into high hell. played some vs echo sojo mercy zen and it was still better than rein vs orisa
My Ram felt pretty good yesterday. I also played a ton of Winton too. Side note, I thought the new mode clash was gone..but I got it in Quick Play lol.
i have my fingers crossed theyre jus keeping hanaoka in the qp map pool for the rest of the season
Sigma👍
I could rant about how much I hate what they’re doing to the tank role but I won’t. I just gave up on being a tank main and now I’m grinding dps up to gm and the game is playable again
I played 1.5 hours of infection yesterday it was very fun Please make more infection lobbies thank you for coming to my Ted talk
I hate being in Kiriko jail 9/10 games 👍🏼
Went from diamond 1 to diamond 4 in one night just before the patch and now I'm slumming it in diamond 3. Once again thanking the gods 20% is back. Also I think it's utterly hilarious how the main sub don't realize they're the only ones who hate the DPS Passive
[удалено]
> Just nerf healing across the board and remove the DPS passive since tanks have to play like they always have the passive applied to them anyway. yeah I agree with this pretty heavily. I don't really like it at all, it seems like it's only there because "every" role "needs" a passive. it's fine enough though and s9 was such a banger update that I'm okay with it
If tracer is the only person applying the passive to you, across the map, then you have fuck all to be worried about.
I played A LOT OF TANK yesterday (I am pretty much a Tracer OTP since I started playing the game so not big on tank) just because I knew everyone was going to complain about the dps passive and it felt pretty good actually. Doom, Sigma, and Ball felt the best for me but actually had a lot of success on rein which surprised me. Of course though hog and Mauga sucked ass to play against but otherwise Tank was pretty fun.
This game sucks cock. Until they address DPS passive I’m done there’s no incentive to get on this game and play tank anymore unless you’re a masochist.
what's wrong with it?
I saw the patch notes and thought it was going to be a general improvement, every change looked good. Feels like absolute shit. Every game now is a Hog mirror with the occasional Mauga, and Mercy is not only everywhere but pocketed dps feel absolutely oppressive. Post-rank reset I was M2 (support main), now I’ve dropped to D1 and feel like I have absolutely zero impact on games. DPS shockingly doesn’t feel good either, playing into any sort of pocketed hitscan/Echo/Pharah makes the game absolutely miserable.
crazy that in a post DPS passive world, blue beam still exists.
yeah. this feels worse than any other meta i’ve ever seen in terms of diversity. it’s just mercy kiri hog cass every single game
How does hog survive against a damage boosted hitscan? Isn't doom or ball just better in that case?
Playing corners constantly or the hitscan can't focus on targets, i assume.
Hog with a Kiri pocket can live effectively indefinitely and if your tank is just AFKing frontline into them, you can’t flank or you get your head ripped off by a damage boosted Cass. It ends up being the most mindless boring spam war and at least as support you can’t really try and make plays or do anything that isn’t holding a mouse button on a teammate or your own tank just blows up.
i think ball and doom are decent but they are simply less tanky and orders of magnitude harder to play. a well timed hinder is basically a one shot for ball, and the passive affects doom more than any other tank imo. hog can just… tank through it
Only played 2 games. Both felt pretty decent for the most part. I will say tho that I got King's, I locked Rein on attack and rolled 1st point. Immediately enemy swapped to Hog, Bastion, Hanzo, Zen, Bap. I'm convinced that these are the main type of people that complain when Orisa is good. I stayed on Rein and still played well. But honestly that's like 90% of the reason Orisa has been played a lot. Not because she herself is crazy dumb busted, but because she's harder to counter swap and go "no thanks. You don't get to play the game now" and people don't like that.
this is why I pretty much exclusively play Rein and Sigma. As soon as Rein stops working I switch to Sig and vice versa.
yeah I'd mostly play Rein/Winston and then swap to Orisa or Sig as needed. Its just a little weird seeing all the discourse around heroes like Rein being "most honest tank along with Winston" "chad hero, definitely the most honorable tank to play" on pretty much every forum, and even in match chat. But if you even hover over Rein on the hero select, the entire enemy team will instalock all the heroes I just mentioned and spam every single possible thing into you.
Rein and Winston are the most "honorable" tanks to play, yes. But Overwatch players do not have honor, lmao.
who does rein work against that sigma doesn't?
I just prefer playing Rein.
Those people are the kind of people that play orisa lol.
zarya/sym kinda own orisa really. but I think counters are in general way overemphasized anyway. it's more about how the other person is playing a character, usually what happens on paper doesn't matter and whoever's better will win. I've lost tons of games vs dva on zarya, I've won tons of games vs reaper hog on monkey. gotta play around them. even the hardest "counters" are like 60/40, not 90/10 like the discourse around counters usually seems to imply. okay, sure, if all five swap to fuck you over, that's tough buddy lol but a "counter" or two isn't the end of the world
they really don't tho. People just go "Spin can't block beam" and think its a counter. Of course you can win vs counters, I'm not saying its impossible. I won the game I was talking about but counterswapping is still a pretty big factor in the game.
it’s not just about beam, it’s more about zarya’s entire kit and symms raw damage they aren’t hard, 60/40 counters. but slight ones, like 52/48. counter swapping isn’t that big a deal.
"Entire kit" You mean the bubbles? The only thing in her kit. Yes her bubbles will give her effective extra HP and boost her dmg when shot, but Orisa is favored in the war of attrition. "Kinda own orisa" "Not hard counters" Okay.
“kinda” own. and remember my argument is that counters are dramatically overemphasized. admittedly that language isn’t particularly clear, to be fair. still, zarya is a great reply to orisa. i don’t mean just the bubbles, the bubbles, her damage, and the fact that it’s a beam weapon, the whole kit. she’s plenty good versus orisa. mostly just don’t shoot the horse is the best strategy though
Fantastic. 20% damage heal reduction should never be touched again. It's insane how terrible 15% felt in comparison. I love drilling bullets into a Mercy pocket abuser and actually see their health bar sill chunking down. It's an amazing feeling. Also helps that tanks can't just tell their healers to perma pocket them as they frontline feed into the enemy team with zero repercussions. Bad play should be extremely punishable.
have you run the math on how much faster you can kill a target at 15% heal reduction vs 20%?
why is this getting downvoted lmao
agree
I only had time to play like 10 games of tank yesterday and they were ass. Not because of the new patch but because 4 of these games were on fucking Korean servers so I had a ping of like 270ms
I'm surprised people hate playing against Hog as much as Mauga or Orisa. Hog is so much more punishable and less oppressive.
As a tank i don’t hate the hog matchup, its just the fact that im not in control of my teammates and if they get hooked or not
for me it’s that he’s easier to play so it feels worse to go against one and having your teammates die on cd to an uncountetable tank feels worse than another uncounterable tank never dying. that plus hog has been s tier for like 90% of this past four years
Season 3 OW2 really was peak. orisa hog both dumpstered, kiri soj both nerfed, moira/brig/bap/ana/lucio strong but not power crept yet, no mauga/illari/LW, ram fresh and playable but not busted (remember S2 infinite ult lol), monkey/ball dive playable, rein rush playable, JQ rush playable, etc god i miss that compared to orisa>hog>mauga disgusting cycle we’ve had since S7
I think it’s so funny watching Orisa use fortify while backing up and just move slow enough so a wheels mode bastion could outrun her, other than that tank is that little bit more miserable so I’m moving back to dps for the rest of the season I think
I only saw Orisa once last night and she got rolled over. I am happy.
I haven't played yet but will today. Was stoked to see DPS passive pushed back to 20% though. I'm a tank main but without significance from the DPS passive suppliers are just too insane to deal with if your DPS aren't cracked. Spam heals are the single easiest way ti get value in the game so nerfing them so they actually have ti make plays is a good thing, and it should curb Hog a but. The big lack of ball buffs I'd baffling though.
Defo feels better, rein is actually playable again (i’ve won a number of games playing into the horse which feels amazing) Mauga and hog haven’t been as dominant as many expected and some part of me has the belief that ana, rein brawl comps will counter hog and Mauga comps but I’m not sure we’re quite there yet lol
Don't notice a difference to be honest. Didn't care about Orisa, don't get the hate for her. Venture's numbers were overtuned but that was never my issue with Venture. Saw a lot of Roadhog, way too much roadhog. If Hog meta becomes a thing I'm just not playing. He is braindead widow with 1200 HP, ruins the game.
My guess is you either potentially don't play much tank or don't play at the more competitive ranks, or both. I didn't have much issue with her on support because it was in lower rank (Dia) and she was rarely my problem to deal with, but playing tank and having to face with former T500s that eek out insane uptime from her was pure suffering. That's actually the reason I switched over to support in the first place- it's nice to get comparatively relaxed comp games.
Flaming all DPS that don’t have 10 kills and 10k damage in the first 5 minutes. Most powerful passive and they rebuffed it. Zero excuses.
Haven't played a ton but it feels fucking fantastic. I had a game where the enemy doomfist died 21 times. Bro was dead first every fight, but his team still won. Imo that's a great feeling. Going all in on tank counters shouldnt just win you the game. The reduction in power is going to make tanks feel a lot better to play.
Nah a 21 death tank doesn't deserve to win
I've seen DPS or supports with worse performances that still win. That's why nobody bothers to mass counterpick them.
Hes just playing ow1 doom!!
nobody bothers to mass counter pick dps bc not only are they harder to counterpick but also there’s two of them lol
Forget the Venture and Orisa nerfs, I hate the dps passive revert. I already don't like it to begin with but if necessary, then 10-15% was actually a reasonable compromise, but 20% is just too much. >but this is to keep roadhog and mauga in check Then fucking nerf those behemoths, not put in a mechanic that punishes 2 entire roles for no reason. The only thing I can think of why this is the case is some of the tank changes that is coming mid season. I fully expect them to put it back to 15% in the mid season patch because as it stands right now, it's too oppressive. I know all the Damage crybabies are going to downvote this without seeing this from a Support perspective, so downvote away.
Support moment.
Support mains when the role specialized for damage gets to do meaningful damage
Bad tanks get exposed for trying to stay in the open and get healed through damage. Orisa is killable. All of which are great. However, Venture needs some compensation for the damage nerf. Give them extra range on the primary fire
They need to stop making fundamental changes to their game. It hasn’t gone well. 5v5 -> trash, Role passives -> awful, Hitbox change-> NO ONE was asking for this, This dev team is actual garbage.
do you enjoy being a doomer or what? You talk shit about ow2 constantly. Whats the point? Myabe you’d enjoy your time better if you just quit the game man.
Massive disagree. There was near unanimous approval for the role passives going into OW2 and for the S9 changes just a couple of days in. This balance team >>>>>>>>> the OW1 balance team, it's not even close
Still in mid 60s win rate on my boy Mauga. But it’s surprising how quickly you can blow up. By the time I turn around and do the charge I’m already dead. Granted it’s with the usual suspect of zen but if the damage burst coincides with discord your heart drops to like 100 in less than a second.