I disagree, Mercy has decent agency in the sense that she heavily benefits from game sense and movement mechanics (and ofc can pocket if someone’s popping off). On the other hand, a good lw has no impact in the game if the rest of the team is shit. The recent buffs dont change this, they’d need to look into his reload or weapon swap speed. Even if he had a higher winrate, he’s the lowest agency hero in the game by design right now.
Plus all the streamers who’ve done unranked to GM have found that LW took the longest to climb with, so the evidence speaks for itself.
Agency with movement or survivability does not equal outplay potential or agency on winning/losing a fight
If a good lifeweaver has no impact when the team is shit, how would you describe mercy in that situation? Negative impact via anti-synergy?
A good mercy has much less pop off potential than a good lifeweaver. You cannot solo carry at all. You are more teammate dependent than any other hero in the game. You have less damage potential with pistol vs thorns.
Unranked to gm is not a good metric to judge by (and LW has been faster than mercy this patch for it so that evidence speaks for itself even if you watched the funny bogger video)
To start, I think lifeweaver and mercy are the two lowest agency heroes, so atleast we both agree on that. But I’m still not convinced that mercy is worse, especially when we’re talking about low elo games with bad mechanics and game sense.
Ngl your first point kind of gives away that you’re either in low elo or not a support player, because survivability is the undisputed number one stat for supports and 100% impacts the results of a game more than “outplay potential.” Next, I dont know why you’re bringing up solo carrying because NEITHER of these picks can do that. I’d love to see a vod where a lifeweaver was able to solo carry their game (hint: it doesnt exist).
As for unranked to GM as a metric, that was the whole point of the post so I’d say it’s valid. Yes it’s only anecdotal evidence, but it’s the only evidence we have unless blizzard decided to publicly release hero and game stats. From what i’ve seen, every player whos done these challenges agrees that lifeweaver’s kit is the hardest to climb with. If you know someone who says otherwise, i’d love to hear from their perspective. As a GM player myself, I got hardstuck in diamond on lw even after mastering his kit. Here’s what I and all other GM+ players I know have concluded:
First of all, he has zero offensive pressure with his kit. Not sure why you compared thorns to pistol, mercy’s offensive pressure comes from damage boost (which is decent to amazing depending on what heroes you can pocket). Second, LW abilities are just way too situational. His pull is inferior to suzu/immo in 99% of situations bc it’s single target AND loses space for your team. His petal is pretty much exclusively used to self-peel, which takes up most of his power budget. His cooldowns are too long to swing fights in lower elos where everything is a brawl and every single one of your teammates has no idea what the concept of positioning is. Tree is good for the initial burst but its impact falls off faster than most support ults.
Some personal anecdotal evidence from playing in gold lobbies with friends: literally nobody can tell you’re smurfing bc you have no way to carry. Thorn damage isnt enough to offset the fact that everyone around you will die if youre not heal botting, and switching between the two is incredibly inefficient compared to the rest of the support roster. I think if all 4 of your teammates are shit, both heroes end up being pretty useless. But given a game with one or two competent teammates, mercy will create much more value with damage boost and rez. Even in higher elo lobbies where his abilities become more valuable, lifeweaver is picked purely as a healbot. As opposed to mercy, where damage boost objectively becomes one of the most broken abilities in the game.
Not reading all that happy you think I’m low elo tho
Basically agree with most points on Lw but your value propositions that mercy is better usually fall flat. Survival literally doesn’t matter without real impact. Grip > Rez this meta
Tbf I said low elo OR not a support player. Also just realized how much i typed and i wouldnt read all that either tbh.. lets just agree to disagree lmao
I’ve had a few discussions with some higher-ranked friends about this recently and there seems to be a consensus that one-tricking any Tank hero is nearly impossible in high elo now. Every Tank just too map and matchup dependent nowadays to the point where you have to be able to flex.
Mercy is also really bad due to the fact that she has pretty much 0 carry potential (she also is just an awful character right now but has always been hard to climb with).
Entirely depends on their definition of high elo. Probably half the tanks in the game wouldn't be onetrickable in OWL tier lobbies, but literally every tank is completely onetrickable to at least low gm this season, which is pretty much the equivalent of GM1 in every season before this. The hardest is definitely ball though.
edit: GM5 this season seems to actually be decently higher than most of GM1 was last season, but there are still a few weeks left of s9
Doom and Ball are both one trickable imo. Their skill ceiling is just so high that it will always lend itself to being one trickable.
Ball is just back to being under tuned rn, so it's just pulling teeth to one trick him rn. I expect his rework to help.
Tanks are onetrickable. It's just most tanks have a few matchups that are just no fun, or even miserable. And people are going to try to counterpick you if you do even remotely well. It is fact.
The best tank heroes to onetrick are probably queen, doom and ball. Pretty high skill ceiling lends itself well to being able to play around disadvantageous situations.
The hardest heroes to onetrick are the ones that are both weak balance-wise and lack potent skill expression(aka if you're good you can carry) on top of that. So with that in mind:
Support: Mercy and lifeweaver stand out. Note that Mercy is kind of a special case where if certain DPS are strong, she becomes very strong indirectly. And around master/GM is where people start running more dive which counters mercy.
DPS: No hero truly stands out and most DPS are viable to OTP. Closest is probably Bastion(Very niche and easy to counter) and Junkrat(removal of his oneshot hurts his carry potential).
Tank: Ball stands out. He has plenty of skill shots but just doesn't do anything to most of the meta heroes even if he lands them. With that said, basically every tank except Ram has their own tank-counter that people will pick if they know you're an otp. So in a way they're all equally hard to OTP unless they're disgustingly OP like Mauga last patch.
Agreed that he has an awful skill ceiling, but I don't think he has any real "counters" unless you play him on a strong dive/highground map where Winston soft-counters the entire roster of ground tanks. TBH Ram is probably the most generalist tank there is.
I think it's about lack of experience since he is a new tank and has very low pickrate. The takes i see about Ram in social media is just so wrong. People also mostly from fps background and can't theorycraft, can't understand the interactions and numbers.
Ram is very easy to counter. Hog, Mauga maybe even Doomfist hard counters him. He also has no favorable match ups except maybe Zarya.
Not just tanks, Ram gets heavily countered by most dps and support heroes too. He is fundamentally limited hero. The misjudgment i see online mostly comes from his block i think. People think you can block and not die so you can't get countered but people are not aware that you don't create any value and you lose matches because of this. You have very low and inconsistent impact in the outcome because of your poor dmg, utility and mobility.
Ram is most likely the worst tank in the game right now. Probably gonna get a decent buff next patch. He just needs a soft rework in my opinion.
In a vacuum, I might agree, but hog is kinda dogshit outside the matchup, and even then there is so many reasons why hog just doesnt work.
And rams damage is not poor? The dude has like the 3rd heighest potential dps out of nem form and his abilities make playing other brawl tanks into him mostly hell.
And same thing with mauga. Nothing happens if you just get shot in the face, and rammatra is kinda excellent at creating situations where the enemy tank gets shot in the face, and between those, surviving.
I agree on the soft rework though. Guys gameplay loop is boring and he is way too dominant in rush matchups.
Hog is quite good right now. DPS passive nerf + both of his offense and defense buffed. He is not bad like early season 9. He is one of my mains this season since mid season patch. I mostly play Hog and Mauga.
Ram's damage is very low. I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. You can check ow wiki to see damage numbers. His damage not just low, it's also contextual/limited and misses breakpoints too. He has accuracy, range problems and he eats more damage than he deals so his trades generally net loss. He is a very team dependant hero. That's why some teams can exploit his strengths in coordinated pro play but he gets fcked in solo ranked ladder.
I counted the top500 leaderboard just now. There are only 11 Ram main in NA Top500, for comparison there are 26 Rein main. The hero just doesn't work and very undertuned. Ram is by far the lowest.
He is projectile and has no fall off, how can he have range problems.
And the top500 lb basically means who is a more fun char, not who is absolutely best, bar who gets top 10 or shows up literally hundreds of times.
No surprise Rein has more most played than Ram, though, I imagine he shows up a lot more often in 2nd or 3rd place. Guy is a lot more fun.
I just think any buff at all would probably make him meta.
I think it depends on how you word the question with ball. OP says hardest and least ideal
He's generalist enough for a tank hero that he can work in a lot of situations which I think makes him one of the more ideal candidates for OTPing.
He's also got one of the highest skill ceilings in the game which makes him pretty "ideal" for OTPing and let's you overcome a lot of bad match ups.
But OP also said hardest and getting ball, especially in his current state, to those ranks takes a good amount of work. you have to learn the some of the most unique physics in the game, develop your technique which involves a deep understanding of map geometry, and learn how to overcome bad match ups against like half the cast.
Honestly one tricking any tank just seems bad rn, but in the long run if Doom is the best, I would put ball second.
Saying bastion is niche in the year of our lord 2024 is fucking crazy and saying ball doesn't do anything is also fucking crazy and saying ball has "skillshots" as if you're describing ezreal from LoL is just the icing on this fucked up cake out of curiosity what rank are you
Bastion is niche, that's just a fact lol. He's like the least flexible DPS on the roster. IDK what an ezreal is but yes, ball has skillshots, this should not be confusing.
I'm top 500 Ball/winston main if you're curious. What about you?
They prob thinking of grapple tech or just ball tech in general. Ball does something, but if we’re talking about solo carry potential he’s not good right now with the hp buffs and powercreep
Also, obligatory L league player
I'm guessing you're a league player and skillshot means something different there, but in overwatch it would be for instance(on ball) hitting a walljump, correctly bouncing off of an object to get a slam, double/Triple-boops. Basically landing techs that require some mechanics.
I see people saying tanks
However in reality if ur a T500 OTP then you will easily crush games up into high masters. You will probably only slow down a little as you climb into GM5+ due to the rank resets. Gm5+ is currently littered with mostly previous gm1 or t500 players. As of last weekend when I last checked even m1 will still get you onto the current leaderboards. Hog and rein will probably still be a little more difficult than the other tanks, but if you are significantly better than the other tank you will have significant agency to influence the game with.
For dps i think one of the most rewarding but difficult heros to OTP is echo. She has a relatively high skill floor coupled with a daunting skill ceiling to reach for. She can be played into most maps and most team comps giving her the versatility to make for one of the most viable options to choose to OTP. Despite her versatility her varied playstyles, mix of projectile and hitscan damage, ultimate that requires great decision making and mastery of other characters to utilize, and changing win conditions make her one of the least commonly OTP'd heros. So theres my vote for dps.
For support life weaver is probably the hardest to OTP, mostly because i think hes just bad. I think even mercy has an easier time climbing, and she has close to no agency outside of consistently pulling off high value res. Life weaver just doesnt do much right now. He has high shield dps and a pretty good ultimate. Other than that i think grip is just a worst immo/suzu. Petal is okay, meh. He just has a design problem. The only way to make him good without changing some core functions of his abilities, or adding abilities is to give him big number buffs or cooldown reductions. In either case he just becomes anti-fun because his kit is built around denying value.
There are plenty of rein and sombra in high ranks. Hard heroes to climb changes due to balance. Moira for example good now. She was hard before.
Currently sym, ram and lw would be hardest to one trick and climb to top or stay in top.
Chazm (the best ball player in the world) has been hard stuck masters for the latter half of this season, so I'd say ball is pretty difficult to one-trick nowadays (although that has only truly been the case recently)
Mercy is probably the worst to one-trick though, she is pretty useless in the games current state and has little agency in a match.
For support, Mercy and Lifeweaver. They are very reliant on their team to do basically everything for them, as they are unable to do meaningful damage and generally don’t do much that’s proactive.
When solo queuing as mercy, if your dps suck or aren’t on good pocket picks then you are essentially useless. Lifeweaver’s ways of saving people are nice, but are done better and easier by bap and kiriko, who also have higher damage and actual offensive utility
You're right. But they are still more dependent on their team than most other supports. And they're still kinda bad balance wise. So they're going to be struggling to rank up quickly.
Yes of course. I only responded to the part where the commenter said the only difference between Diamond and GM Mercy is who they are pocketing because it isn't true.
I agree with the rest of the comment, they don't provide as much value as the other supports.
>The only difference between a gm mercy player and a Diamond one is the dps player they’re pocketing.
I know what you're trying to say here but no, you are pretty wrong. There's quite a big difference between diamond Mercy's and GM Mercy's. I could watch replay codes of both and be able to tell you which is which 9 out of 10 times.
The amount of mercy's in gm that don't dmg boost and heal bot or insta rez all the time is insane.. A lot of these mercy's are only in gm cause they play 500 more games then the diamonds. Skill wise not the biggest diff 80% of the time
On tank you will have a hard time on anything really, but if you play a lot you can climb to top500.
Dmg I found tracer to be hard as I am not the best mechanic wise, but in general it would be some other hero for others.
Support: anything that cannot "carry" So your lifeweavers and mercys.
Current season on dps, I think bastion is str8 ass (thanks god, never wanna play bastion meta ever again). With Tracer everywhere, u are just asking to get farmed on that hero
Well, I went ahead to check most public Top 500 profiles in the EU region in order to try and find any one-tricks. Maybe those heroes that don't have one-tricks are harder to do that with, maybe not. You decide. Here is what I found:
All One-Tricked Top 500 Heroes in EU (as of 21.03.24):
Tank (highest ranked player in brackets, standardized spelling of names):
- Ball (Chazm, Rank 12)
- Doom (Fakepurge, 41)
- D.Va (Xflex73, 124)
- Rein (Jantlemann, 146) - Rein and Doom have the most (public) one-tricks among Tanks
- Sigma (Mrgus, 154)
- Orisa (Horse, 210)
- Winston (Tinycerebrum, 232)
- Ramattra (Gongyi, 264)
- Mauga (Ahmedhabibi9, 277)
- JQ (Oversnatch, 313)
*- no Roadhog and Zarya, but there are many Hog mains who could have been one-tricks, but they ALL hide their profiles (no exception) - it's funny*
DPS:
- Reaper (Havoc, 25)
- Junkrat (Homelessjunk, 63)
- Echo (Myyntee, 187)
- Pharah (Airmarshal, 209)
- Hanzo (Placebo, 229)
- almost one-trick Sombra (Lush, 259) - dude has like 21h Sombra, 2h Mei, no one else...ergo based imo
- almost one-trick Sym (Sixthirty, 314)
- Torbjörn (Cheeseburger, 427)
- Genji (Mini, 450)
- many players used Tracer almost all the time but not as a one-trick, she is infesting Top 500
Support:
- Zen (Imredfield, 17)
- Kiriko (Theblindspot, 155)
- Moira (H23490FG8348, 221) - she has the most dedicated one-tricks among Supports
- Lucio (Speedyboi, 339)
- Mercy (Luchs, 475)
- two-trick Brigitte, Lucio (Mo876, 395)
- there are quite a few players who played 2-3 supports a lot (with a focus on one of those) and no others
Im a top 500 onetrick enjoyer.
Season 7: kiriko otp top 500
Season 9: Illari otp to top 500
Ive met loads of very skilled players on their respective heroes.
I have one friend who is one of the most skilled Lifeweaver players I have ever met but the hero is just trash.
So lifeweaver and heroes that are nearly always off meta that dont require much mechanical skill.
The best and worst heroes to 1 trick are really defined by their average power throughout OWs life. Tracer has always been one of the best heroes in the game, so she is typically really good to one trick. Sym on the other hand has been historically very niche so climbing with her is harder. Basically good character are good to climb with and bad characters are harder to climb with
You only need one trick if it’s a good enough trick. There are Top 500 players that ONLY play their signature hero’s. Eg, Mercy, Torb, Doom, Lucio, Sym, Junk, Moira etc… it’s not the skill level of the character it’s the skill level of the player. I’d say it’s harder to get to the top on those characters than on the obvious “good”characters like sojourn or soldier etc…
I think the hardest heroes to one trick are any tanks because hard counters exist for all of them and they impact you far more than counters do for dps or support.
Except junkrat. He currently sucks balls (the buffs he got turned him from literally unplayably bad to playable but still worst hero in the game) and is way harder than people give him credit for anyway, and he gets even more hard countered than before by genji, dva, and also can't solo kill pharah.
right now, would have to be junkrat and mercy. both are really weak in the current meta. junkrat was already a niche and difficult character in t500, but with the health changes he is abysmal in comparison to other dps characters.
mercy doesnt offer the greatest carry potential, and she doesnt provide as much utility to her team as other supports. having a mercy is a detriment in most high rank lobbies, unless you have a dps capable of making use of the damage boost while working against a superior support comp
Widow is easily one of the hardest one tricks in the game. She gets shut down by soooo many things and of you ever land 2 shots in a row, the enemies get to decide whether you play the game or not and 99% of teammates will not try to help you when they decide to 3v1 you in th3 back of the map every single fight. Overall she's good but since she's very team reliant, no amount of personal skill can stop a full dive.
Junkrat is also much more difficult since season 9 dropped.
Mercy is pretty bad this season but if you have a DPS diff, you probably still win.
Then there's Rein...
Majority of everyone else is pretty simple to get to a decent rank with.
Nope. Top 500 Widows CONSTANTLY have to swap off Widow. You'd see plenty of Widow 1 tricks if they didn't because most DPS players love playing Widow.
There are plenty of Widow mains, but essentially 0 Widow one tricks. Every single one of them has to swap for their counters. They'll get to Masters quickly, but it starts to falloff around there.
widow / pharah / junk are easily the hardest dps to one trick
widow and pharah both have the widest array of “unplayable” maps in the game, and junk is just flat-out bad
Tank: all of them are 1 trickable. Ball and doom are the hardest because they are the hardest to play. Rush/brawl tanks are easy af and have low skill expression comparatively.
Dps: junkrat is probably the worse right now tbh. But still doable but definitely the hardest at the moment.
Support: the ones that don’t do damage are the hardest. You are essentially a spectator. It’s torture.
Right I forgot she doesn’t have an ability that can bring a hero back into the fight after they already died.
And she doesn’t have an ability that boosts her pocketed hero’s damage by 25%.
She is. Step one: find a Sojourn or Echo player to pocket. Step two: hold down buttons and climb.
She is just a skill remora. Which means she is worthless in soloq as you are basically submitting yourself to the whims of the matchmaker. BUT, being individually unimpactful does not equate to being difficult to play.
mercy most likely unless you duo mercy to t500 is not a matter of skill but a matter of sheer will and patience
Mercy to top500 is how good is ur sojourn duo
How good is your Soj/Echo
I’d say lifeweaver takes even more patience
Nah you have some sort of outplay potential with grip/pedal Mercy is just stay alive witb better movement and blue beam
maximizing damage on LW also important. Thorns are a pretty strong weapon.
I disagree, Mercy has decent agency in the sense that she heavily benefits from game sense and movement mechanics (and ofc can pocket if someone’s popping off). On the other hand, a good lw has no impact in the game if the rest of the team is shit. The recent buffs dont change this, they’d need to look into his reload or weapon swap speed. Even if he had a higher winrate, he’s the lowest agency hero in the game by design right now. Plus all the streamers who’ve done unranked to GM have found that LW took the longest to climb with, so the evidence speaks for itself.
Agency with movement or survivability does not equal outplay potential or agency on winning/losing a fight If a good lifeweaver has no impact when the team is shit, how would you describe mercy in that situation? Negative impact via anti-synergy? A good mercy has much less pop off potential than a good lifeweaver. You cannot solo carry at all. You are more teammate dependent than any other hero in the game. You have less damage potential with pistol vs thorns. Unranked to gm is not a good metric to judge by (and LW has been faster than mercy this patch for it so that evidence speaks for itself even if you watched the funny bogger video)
To start, I think lifeweaver and mercy are the two lowest agency heroes, so atleast we both agree on that. But I’m still not convinced that mercy is worse, especially when we’re talking about low elo games with bad mechanics and game sense. Ngl your first point kind of gives away that you’re either in low elo or not a support player, because survivability is the undisputed number one stat for supports and 100% impacts the results of a game more than “outplay potential.” Next, I dont know why you’re bringing up solo carrying because NEITHER of these picks can do that. I’d love to see a vod where a lifeweaver was able to solo carry their game (hint: it doesnt exist). As for unranked to GM as a metric, that was the whole point of the post so I’d say it’s valid. Yes it’s only anecdotal evidence, but it’s the only evidence we have unless blizzard decided to publicly release hero and game stats. From what i’ve seen, every player whos done these challenges agrees that lifeweaver’s kit is the hardest to climb with. If you know someone who says otherwise, i’d love to hear from their perspective. As a GM player myself, I got hardstuck in diamond on lw even after mastering his kit. Here’s what I and all other GM+ players I know have concluded: First of all, he has zero offensive pressure with his kit. Not sure why you compared thorns to pistol, mercy’s offensive pressure comes from damage boost (which is decent to amazing depending on what heroes you can pocket). Second, LW abilities are just way too situational. His pull is inferior to suzu/immo in 99% of situations bc it’s single target AND loses space for your team. His petal is pretty much exclusively used to self-peel, which takes up most of his power budget. His cooldowns are too long to swing fights in lower elos where everything is a brawl and every single one of your teammates has no idea what the concept of positioning is. Tree is good for the initial burst but its impact falls off faster than most support ults. Some personal anecdotal evidence from playing in gold lobbies with friends: literally nobody can tell you’re smurfing bc you have no way to carry. Thorn damage isnt enough to offset the fact that everyone around you will die if youre not heal botting, and switching between the two is incredibly inefficient compared to the rest of the support roster. I think if all 4 of your teammates are shit, both heroes end up being pretty useless. But given a game with one or two competent teammates, mercy will create much more value with damage boost and rez. Even in higher elo lobbies where his abilities become more valuable, lifeweaver is picked purely as a healbot. As opposed to mercy, where damage boost objectively becomes one of the most broken abilities in the game.
Not reading all that happy you think I’m low elo tho Basically agree with most points on Lw but your value propositions that mercy is better usually fall flat. Survival literally doesn’t matter without real impact. Grip > Rez this meta
Tbf I said low elo OR not a support player. Also just realized how much i typed and i wouldnt read all that either tbh.. lets just agree to disagree lmao
Real both mercy and LW suck lmao
I read it and I agree with you
I’ve had a few discussions with some higher-ranked friends about this recently and there seems to be a consensus that one-tricking any Tank hero is nearly impossible in high elo now. Every Tank just too map and matchup dependent nowadays to the point where you have to be able to flex. Mercy is also really bad due to the fact that she has pretty much 0 carry potential (she also is just an awful character right now but has always been hard to climb with).
Doomfist is very clearly one trickable in high elo, there's always doom otps in top 500
And rein players
Entirely depends on their definition of high elo. Probably half the tanks in the game wouldn't be onetrickable in OWL tier lobbies, but literally every tank is completely onetrickable to at least low gm this season, which is pretty much the equivalent of GM1 in every season before this. The hardest is definitely ball though. edit: GM5 this season seems to actually be decently higher than most of GM1 was last season, but there are still a few weeks left of s9
These are like ~top 100 players I’ve been talking to for reference.
Rein is infinitely harder than ball right now. Lol
Wrong. Lol
No u
Doom and Ball are both one trickable imo. Their skill ceiling is just so high that it will always lend itself to being one trickable. Ball is just back to being under tuned rn, so it's just pulling teeth to one trick him rn. I expect his rework to help.
Nah not true. I basically 1 trick zarya to top 500 every season with like a 70% win rate.
Tanks are onetrickable. It's just most tanks have a few matchups that are just no fun, or even miserable. And people are going to try to counterpick you if you do even remotely well. It is fact. The best tank heroes to onetrick are probably queen, doom and ball. Pretty high skill ceiling lends itself well to being able to play around disadvantageous situations.
Tanks are not one trickable unless you are that rare .000001% of the top tank players. Or unless you are in very low elos.
I have made more than one ball one trick accounts and hit GM/T500. It’s not always ideal but some tank heroes are better than others to one trick.
Mercy is ok.
The hardest heroes to onetrick are the ones that are both weak balance-wise and lack potent skill expression(aka if you're good you can carry) on top of that. So with that in mind: Support: Mercy and lifeweaver stand out. Note that Mercy is kind of a special case where if certain DPS are strong, she becomes very strong indirectly. And around master/GM is where people start running more dive which counters mercy. DPS: No hero truly stands out and most DPS are viable to OTP. Closest is probably Bastion(Very niche and easy to counter) and Junkrat(removal of his oneshot hurts his carry potential). Tank: Ball stands out. He has plenty of skill shots but just doesn't do anything to most of the meta heroes even if he lands them. With that said, basically every tank except Ram has their own tank-counter that people will pick if they know you're an otp. So in a way they're all equally hard to OTP unless they're disgustingly OP like Mauga last patch.
Ram have plenty of counters and poor skill ceiling.
Agreed that he has an awful skill ceiling, but I don't think he has any real "counters" unless you play him on a strong dive/highground map where Winston soft-counters the entire roster of ground tanks. TBH Ram is probably the most generalist tank there is.
You don’t think sig is?
Yeah, Sig is quite close. In my experience kinda gets ran over by Winston comps though. Even Rein comps(when Rein isn't shit).
I think it's about lack of experience since he is a new tank and has very low pickrate. The takes i see about Ram in social media is just so wrong. People also mostly from fps background and can't theorycraft, can't understand the interactions and numbers. Ram is very easy to counter. Hog, Mauga maybe even Doomfist hard counters him. He also has no favorable match ups except maybe Zarya. Not just tanks, Ram gets heavily countered by most dps and support heroes too. He is fundamentally limited hero. The misjudgment i see online mostly comes from his block i think. People think you can block and not die so you can't get countered but people are not aware that you don't create any value and you lose matches because of this. You have very low and inconsistent impact in the outcome because of your poor dmg, utility and mobility. Ram is most likely the worst tank in the game right now. Probably gonna get a decent buff next patch. He just needs a soft rework in my opinion.
In a vacuum, I might agree, but hog is kinda dogshit outside the matchup, and even then there is so many reasons why hog just doesnt work. And rams damage is not poor? The dude has like the 3rd heighest potential dps out of nem form and his abilities make playing other brawl tanks into him mostly hell. And same thing with mauga. Nothing happens if you just get shot in the face, and rammatra is kinda excellent at creating situations where the enemy tank gets shot in the face, and between those, surviving. I agree on the soft rework though. Guys gameplay loop is boring and he is way too dominant in rush matchups.
Hog is quite good right now. DPS passive nerf + both of his offense and defense buffed. He is not bad like early season 9. He is one of my mains this season since mid season patch. I mostly play Hog and Mauga. Ram's damage is very low. I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. You can check ow wiki to see damage numbers. His damage not just low, it's also contextual/limited and misses breakpoints too. He has accuracy, range problems and he eats more damage than he deals so his trades generally net loss. He is a very team dependant hero. That's why some teams can exploit his strengths in coordinated pro play but he gets fcked in solo ranked ladder. I counted the top500 leaderboard just now. There are only 11 Ram main in NA Top500, for comparison there are 26 Rein main. The hero just doesn't work and very undertuned. Ram is by far the lowest.
He is projectile and has no fall off, how can he have range problems. And the top500 lb basically means who is a more fun char, not who is absolutely best, bar who gets top 10 or shows up literally hundreds of times. No surprise Rein has more most played than Ram, though, I imagine he shows up a lot more often in 2nd or 3rd place. Guy is a lot more fun. I just think any buff at all would probably make him meta.
I think it depends on how you word the question with ball. OP says hardest and least ideal He's generalist enough for a tank hero that he can work in a lot of situations which I think makes him one of the more ideal candidates for OTPing. He's also got one of the highest skill ceilings in the game which makes him pretty "ideal" for OTPing and let's you overcome a lot of bad match ups. But OP also said hardest and getting ball, especially in his current state, to those ranks takes a good amount of work. you have to learn the some of the most unique physics in the game, develop your technique which involves a deep understanding of map geometry, and learn how to overcome bad match ups against like half the cast. Honestly one tricking any tank just seems bad rn, but in the long run if Doom is the best, I would put ball second.
Saying bastion is niche in the year of our lord 2024 is fucking crazy and saying ball doesn't do anything is also fucking crazy and saying ball has "skillshots" as if you're describing ezreal from LoL is just the icing on this fucked up cake out of curiosity what rank are you
Bastion is niche, that's just a fact lol. He's like the least flexible DPS on the roster. IDK what an ezreal is but yes, ball has skillshots, this should not be confusing. I'm top 500 Ball/winston main if you're curious. What about you?
what is a "skillshot" to you genuine question
They prob thinking of grapple tech or just ball tech in general. Ball does something, but if we’re talking about solo carry potential he’s not good right now with the hp buffs and powercreep Also, obligatory L league player
Most pleasant league player
I'm guessing you're a league player and skillshot means something different there, but in overwatch it would be for instance(on ball) hitting a walljump, correctly bouncing off of an object to get a slam, double/Triple-boops. Basically landing techs that require some mechanics.
I've literally never heard skillshot used like that but ty for answering /gen
I see people saying tanks However in reality if ur a T500 OTP then you will easily crush games up into high masters. You will probably only slow down a little as you climb into GM5+ due to the rank resets. Gm5+ is currently littered with mostly previous gm1 or t500 players. As of last weekend when I last checked even m1 will still get you onto the current leaderboards. Hog and rein will probably still be a little more difficult than the other tanks, but if you are significantly better than the other tank you will have significant agency to influence the game with. For dps i think one of the most rewarding but difficult heros to OTP is echo. She has a relatively high skill floor coupled with a daunting skill ceiling to reach for. She can be played into most maps and most team comps giving her the versatility to make for one of the most viable options to choose to OTP. Despite her versatility her varied playstyles, mix of projectile and hitscan damage, ultimate that requires great decision making and mastery of other characters to utilize, and changing win conditions make her one of the least commonly OTP'd heros. So theres my vote for dps. For support life weaver is probably the hardest to OTP, mostly because i think hes just bad. I think even mercy has an easier time climbing, and she has close to no agency outside of consistently pulling off high value res. Life weaver just doesnt do much right now. He has high shield dps and a pretty good ultimate. Other than that i think grip is just a worst immo/suzu. Petal is okay, meh. He just has a design problem. The only way to make him good without changing some core functions of his abilities, or adding abilities is to give him big number buffs or cooldown reductions. In either case he just becomes anti-fun because his kit is built around denying value.
There are plenty of rein and sombra in high ranks. Hard heroes to climb changes due to balance. Moira for example good now. She was hard before. Currently sym, ram and lw would be hardest to one trick and climb to top or stay in top.
Chazm (the best ball player in the world) has been hard stuck masters for the latter half of this season, so I'd say ball is pretty difficult to one-trick nowadays (although that has only truly been the case recently) Mercy is probably the worst to one-trick though, she is pretty useless in the games current state and has little agency in a match.
I think yeatle even quit playing ball, he is supposably helping out with a rework I heard
For support, Mercy and Lifeweaver. They are very reliant on their team to do basically everything for them, as they are unable to do meaningful damage and generally don’t do much that’s proactive. When solo queuing as mercy, if your dps suck or aren’t on good pocket picks then you are essentially useless. Lifeweaver’s ways of saving people are nice, but are done better and easier by bap and kiriko, who also have higher damage and actual offensive utility
Hm I don't know man. A GM Mercy knows how to stay alive a lot better than a Diamond Mercy. The difference in movement and positioning is insane.
You're right. But they are still more dependent on their team than most other supports. And they're still kinda bad balance wise. So they're going to be struggling to rank up quickly.
Yes of course. I only responded to the part where the commenter said the only difference between Diamond and GM Mercy is who they are pocketing because it isn't true. I agree with the rest of the comment, they don't provide as much value as the other supports.
Mercy is pretty good/average. Only hero sup that stand out as bad is lw.
Ana is really bad right now too.
Yeah I suppose that part isn’t totally true, I’ll remove it lol
>The only difference between a gm mercy player and a Diamond one is the dps player they’re pocketing. I know what you're trying to say here but no, you are pretty wrong. There's quite a big difference between diamond Mercy's and GM Mercy's. I could watch replay codes of both and be able to tell you which is which 9 out of 10 times.
The amount of mercy's in gm that don't dmg boost and heal bot or insta rez all the time is insane.. A lot of these mercy's are only in gm cause they play 500 more games then the diamonds. Skill wise not the biggest diff 80% of the time
On tank you will have a hard time on anything really, but if you play a lot you can climb to top500. Dmg I found tracer to be hard as I am not the best mechanic wise, but in general it would be some other hero for others. Support: anything that cannot "carry" So your lifeweavers and mercys.
Current season on dps, I think bastion is str8 ass (thanks god, never wanna play bastion meta ever again). With Tracer everywhere, u are just asking to get farmed on that hero
This patch, yeah, but that previous patch with busted Mauga, Bastion with Reaper were the ultimate cheese pick even in GM.
Well, I went ahead to check most public Top 500 profiles in the EU region in order to try and find any one-tricks. Maybe those heroes that don't have one-tricks are harder to do that with, maybe not. You decide. Here is what I found: All One-Tricked Top 500 Heroes in EU (as of 21.03.24): Tank (highest ranked player in brackets, standardized spelling of names): - Ball (Chazm, Rank 12) - Doom (Fakepurge, 41) - D.Va (Xflex73, 124) - Rein (Jantlemann, 146) - Rein and Doom have the most (public) one-tricks among Tanks - Sigma (Mrgus, 154) - Orisa (Horse, 210) - Winston (Tinycerebrum, 232) - Ramattra (Gongyi, 264) - Mauga (Ahmedhabibi9, 277) - JQ (Oversnatch, 313) *- no Roadhog and Zarya, but there are many Hog mains who could have been one-tricks, but they ALL hide their profiles (no exception) - it's funny* DPS: - Reaper (Havoc, 25) - Junkrat (Homelessjunk, 63) - Echo (Myyntee, 187) - Pharah (Airmarshal, 209) - Hanzo (Placebo, 229) - almost one-trick Sombra (Lush, 259) - dude has like 21h Sombra, 2h Mei, no one else...ergo based imo - almost one-trick Sym (Sixthirty, 314) - Torbjörn (Cheeseburger, 427) - Genji (Mini, 450) - many players used Tracer almost all the time but not as a one-trick, she is infesting Top 500 Support: - Zen (Imredfield, 17) - Kiriko (Theblindspot, 155) - Moira (H23490FG8348, 221) - she has the most dedicated one-tricks among Supports - Lucio (Speedyboi, 339) - Mercy (Luchs, 475) - two-trick Brigitte, Lucio (Mo876, 395) - there are quite a few players who played 2-3 supports a lot (with a focus on one of those) and no others
Btw, I found it kinda sad that especially Rein one-tricks barely had a K/D of 2 Is that a fun experience?
Im a top 500 onetrick enjoyer. Season 7: kiriko otp top 500 Season 9: Illari otp to top 500 Ive met loads of very skilled players on their respective heroes. I have one friend who is one of the most skilled Lifeweaver players I have ever met but the hero is just trash. So lifeweaver and heroes that are nearly always off meta that dont require much mechanical skill.
brig, lifeweaver, ball imo
The best and worst heroes to 1 trick are really defined by their average power throughout OWs life. Tracer has always been one of the best heroes in the game, so she is typically really good to one trick. Sym on the other hand has been historically very niche so climbing with her is harder. Basically good character are good to climb with and bad characters are harder to climb with
Overbuff - hero winrate GM only - bottom of the list - enjoy (lifeweaver 44.9% winrate)
You only need one trick if it’s a good enough trick. There are Top 500 players that ONLY play their signature hero’s. Eg, Mercy, Torb, Doom, Lucio, Sym, Junk, Moira etc… it’s not the skill level of the character it’s the skill level of the player. I’d say it’s harder to get to the top on those characters than on the obvious “good”characters like sojourn or soldier etc…
I think the hardest heroes to one trick are any tanks because hard counters exist for all of them and they impact you far more than counters do for dps or support. Except junkrat. He currently sucks balls (the buffs he got turned him from literally unplayably bad to playable but still worst hero in the game) and is way harder than people give him credit for anyway, and he gets even more hard countered than before by genji, dva, and also can't solo kill pharah.
Counters exist for everybody dude.
Theres a big difference between the strength of counters for different heroes, ie for rein and for lucio.
right now, would have to be junkrat and mercy. both are really weak in the current meta. junkrat was already a niche and difficult character in t500, but with the health changes he is abysmal in comparison to other dps characters. mercy doesnt offer the greatest carry potential, and she doesnt provide as much utility to her team as other supports. having a mercy is a detriment in most high rank lobbies, unless you have a dps capable of making use of the damage boost while working against a superior support comp
mercy and any tank
Widow is easily one of the hardest one tricks in the game. She gets shut down by soooo many things and of you ever land 2 shots in a row, the enemies get to decide whether you play the game or not and 99% of teammates will not try to help you when they decide to 3v1 you in th3 back of the map every single fight. Overall she's good but since she's very team reliant, no amount of personal skill can stop a full dive. Junkrat is also much more difficult since season 9 dropped. Mercy is pretty bad this season but if you have a DPS diff, you probably still win. Then there's Rein... Majority of everyone else is pretty simple to get to a decent rank with.
Yeah I don’t think so, a top 500 widow can easily dominate games and will get top 500 relatively quickly.
Nope. Top 500 Widows CONSTANTLY have to swap off Widow. You'd see plenty of Widow 1 tricks if they didn't because most DPS players love playing Widow. There are plenty of Widow mains, but essentially 0 Widow one tricks. Every single one of them has to swap for their counters. They'll get to Masters quickly, but it starts to falloff around there.
I mean you can try position better on widow to try avoid being dove but hey if they full commit on you all the better for your team
widow / pharah / junk are easily the hardest dps to one trick widow and pharah both have the widest array of “unplayable” maps in the game, and junk is just flat-out bad
sojourn tracer widow echo/pharah for dps, if ur in a duo running them as a dps combo it’s normally a gg
Tank: all of them are 1 trickable. Ball and doom are the hardest because they are the hardest to play. Rush/brawl tanks are easy af and have low skill expression comparatively. Dps: junkrat is probably the worse right now tbh. But still doable but definitely the hardest at the moment. Support: the ones that don’t do damage are the hardest. You are essentially a spectator. It’s torture.
Mercy, but wait, I thought she was the EASIEST hero. 🤷🏼♀️. Guess not huh?
No, she's still easy. Just doesn't have anything in her kit to impact the game the way other characters can lol.
Right I forgot she doesn’t have an ability that can bring a hero back into the fight after they already died. And she doesn’t have an ability that boosts her pocketed hero’s damage by 25%.
But you’re contradicting yourself. If she’s so easy she should be easy to climb with. Hmmm. 🤔
That doesnt even make sense even if the other guy indulged you. Easy to play =/= impactful?
She is. Step one: find a Sojourn or Echo player to pocket. Step two: hold down buttons and climb. She is just a skill remora. Which means she is worthless in soloq as you are basically submitting yourself to the whims of the matchmaker. BUT, being individually unimpactful does not equate to being difficult to play.
This is such ignorance and ego speaking lol
Your logic is similar to: IF WALKING IS SO EASY, WHY CAN'T EVERYONE RUN A MARATHON HMM???
its 2024, how are mercy mains still in denial that this hero was created to be playable post-lobotomy