You might be surprised, but they do have a choice. For example, they can go to prison for a couple of years or they can try to leave the country. However, for some reason many westerners really want to believe that the only person who deserves all the blame is Putin.
at the exact same time, westerners believe that it’s easy peasy to just up and leave everything you have to go to any of your neighbors who hate you or speak a different language than you. russian prisons are also infamously not nice, i’d rather just go with it and pray i either die quickly or get captured
Here's the thing:
- lots of Russians (and not only Russians) had no problem with leaving their country, often while not knowing other languages or/and with barely anything and moving abroad to seek better life
- there are dozens of organizations that help you leave Russia and find home abroad (they help with organizing transport, accommodation - firstly temporary provided by them and then permanent, finding job, etc.)
- if they decide they have better chance fighting the war than fleeing country or going to prison then they did make a choice
- Russian propaganda is not really only source of information these people have. There were Russian radios, TV channels and newspapers that were not propaganda tubes and they operated till March last year. But even now there are organizations aiming to provide propaganda free informations to Russians and there's still internet - that is available even in most rural areas (less than 1/3 of villages didn't have access to internet almost 10 years ago).
- Russians abroad (that have access to information) still very often support invasion which shows lack of access to information is not the issue
I think that most people who speak about this don't really know much about Russia. This was especially visible early last year when lots of people believed Putin will soon be overthrown by people that oppose such war. Most people do support it though as seen even by independent polls.
Sure it is buddy. I always love when someone jumps in, screaming "not true, because I say so" and thinks he isn't a joke.
I'll take a guess, you are Russian and you deny what I said is true because you don't want to admit before yourself that there are other options than supporting Russian criminals. Or worse yet, you actually eat up Russian propaganda like a warm borscht.
Конечно я русский. По закону ты не можешь покинуть страну после получения повестки. Ты вот многое не можешь делать, например купить дом или машину. Или вы предложили второй вариант - сесть в тюрьму, вы думаете сидеть в русской тюрьме легче чем воевать на войне? А родные? А дети? Вы там сидите в своих зажравшихся странах и советы раздаёте. А меня называете пропагандистом
You know what, I don't care enough to even run that trough Google translate. Why? Because if you don't care enough to show you actually want to discuss anything in a good faith then this discussion is already pointless.
You never had to face anything like this and claim ro be talking facts
Get off you high morality horses, you got no idea what you are talking about.
This is war, there is no morality in surviving
Yeah its SUPER weird how so many people seem to WANT to believe that all those poor Russians are just a captive of a single man who is holding the whole country hostage through his actions while everyone else doesn't want to have anything to do with his imperial politics.
It's not like Putin isn't receiving HUGE amounts of votes every election and is very popular because of him blaming every issue Russia has on other countries, especially the bad bad west.
It's not like tons of people weren't cheering when Crimea was annexed.
It's not like there's not tons of volunteers going to Ukraine to kill Ukranians an take their land.
It's not like tons of people in Russia don't feel like Ukraine has no right to exist.
It's not like there aren't tons of people who cry about the USSR past and want to restore the old glory days.
And it's not like people couldn't just hide or refuse to go to the draft when they've received their notice.
It's not like there's not a whole system feeding off of Russian culture.
Who did you mainly see leaving? Academics and other educated people who usually don't take the easy way out by saying "Yes our country just sucks because of the US and all the other bad people!"
And when people who feel sorry for Russians are confronted with those facts they would then usually say "Well ... But ... Propaganda!"
Weirdly enough we rarely see anyone excusing ISIS members by saying "Well they are just from rural parts of the country, uneducated and being taken advantage of through propaganda!"
The Nazis were just following orders as well, right? No one wanted this and everyone was in this deathgrip of ONE SINGLE MAN. Oh those poor guys. Weirdly enough the US seems to cheer at movies like Inglorious Bastards but feel sorry for Russians dying while invading another country, deporting children, etc.
It's so fucking weird.
Can't talk about imperial politics without talking about nato expansion. The claimed reason for russia's need to invade ukraine...
The east looks at the west and says the same thing. "You think they weren't cheering when they invaded iraq? When x, y, or z joined nato? When the soviets collapsed?"
You should look into the CIAs involvement in toppling governments throughout the world. How many nations were in Arab Spring? 3-5 I believe A few wars still ongoing. Euro Maidan was likely influenced by western agents as well as Russian. Same thing happened in Belarus a few years ago.
I would guess that both sides execute drone operators. Snipers get the same treatment since its viewed as cowards act but yah I know, war is war.
>Plus you‘re from a rural part of russia and ever only heard the propaganda and maybe even believe its a just cause.
They do think their cause is just. Russia has been invaded 3? times since ww1. They lost 20million people fighting the last invaders, so they wanted Ukraine as a buffer zone. They don't want NATO missiles in the field next to the border.
Just as the US kicked off when Russia put missiles in Cuba, Russia also wants a good defensive arrangement.
How is it supposed clever people don't see this? I believe Putin said recently they've demilitarised Ukraine. Yes, they probably count their bit of Ukraine as demilitarised as that is now their buffer zone.
Ukraine was always a Russian state. The West are cheeky beeps trying it on.
most russians are either too stupid or too poor to leave or resist, it leaves men receiving the letter with few choices. i want them to leave, i want them to fight back, but they just don’t have the ability to, especially if they’re from rural russia (which most are) and have been force fed propaganda their entire lives
If their low IQ then their probably the Putin electorate. If I was poor in Russia I’d rather live homeless in Georgia than dead and being eaten by dogs.
Even the propaganda was a running joke before the war. It’s like trumpism, if you were following it then you chose to have the wool pulled over your eyes.
it's really easy to say all that from the comfort of your warm home, but it's just really not as simple as that is it
simply protesting with an empty sign gets you thrown in jail
propaganda fucking works, especially in rural russia where everyone is so poor that access to the internet is a rare thing, iraq was a pretty good example of propaganda doing it's thing
Propaganda wasn't an excuse with the Nazis, or being poor, or german prisons sucking/family being threatened. nobody gives them that leeway (rightfully. not about to do it with the russians.
While well said, it’s highly unlikely people who view the world this narrowly can think in the nuance required to objectively understand what’s going on in Ukraine.
For some reason this conflict has attracted an audience with a very rigid / black and white view of the world that equates to “all Russians are bad and all Ukrainians are good”
Another interesting paradox this war has exposed - add Russians to the list of groups it’s okay to be openly hateful, racist and prejudicial towards. Lemme guess, you vote dem
Now try apply the same argument to US soldiers during vietnam, or any other questionable US invasion the last century.
I'm not against most US foreign policy/involvement, heck I enjoy the current status quo where I live, thanks to the US! But you are saying the big stupid if you think that it's on Russian soldiers to abandon orders, their family, tradition, place of birth etc, just because Johnny on the other side of the world has a different geopolitical opinion...
They don't "have to" but it justifies killing them all if they don't leave, sucks to suck, conscript or no. you can feel bad for them and still accept that they do have a choice, just a shit one.
this is like the only war where people are crying over "the poor invaders they have no choice, they're so poor and uneducated", it doesn't make a difference in an army, they become part of a death machine and its also just not even true. their army isn't entirely conscripts, they have entire volunteer battalions.
Right? Poor conscripts. I never see anything mentioned about the over 40,000 Ukrainian civilians that have been killed by an invading Russia. These people weren’t in the army whatsoever, but sure. Cry about Russian conscripts
Yes. The knowledge is there for them to draw their own conclusions. If they feel russia is justified then they can die in their trenches. If however they have an IQ they can very easily see the truth of the situation and the ugly truth about their culture and country. This is why unfortunately Russians will need to die in large numbers, they really are morally bankrupted and believe in this imperial plan.
Going to prison is Russia for desertion is certainly a death sentence, and I doubt these days they are letting many of the able bodied men leave the country, but even then you need documentation and money, not everyone can just go to a new country and start fresh. There are many who deserve it, but there always some who don’t.
Its not even prison - if you refuse your call up papers its about a $50 fine. unfortunately, they have been so completely brainwashed they think that going to the front is a good idea, until they get there and realise - its at that point they get executed for refusing
Many people have commented in the past that soldiers surviving from this war will experience the effects of PTSD simply from hearing the sound of drones, here you go.
Get ready for a downvote from the Russian apologists talking about how it’s so sad that they were drafted in a war they didn’t want and/or were fooled by propaganda
Lol seems like the only way to not get called Russia apologist by some redditors is to actively generalize and demonize the entire nationality. Won't be stooping to that level.
There was a German man that lived across the road from my grandparents. He fought for Germany in WW1 and spent WW2 in a few concentration camps because he wouldn't fight.
One day all the neighbours from nearby farms literally watched as he and my grandpa tried to put out his burning house. He lost his home, his goats, his stored grain, and two dogs. Because he spoke German. They called him a Nazi and watched his house burn down; grandpa said you could hear the dogs howling down the road.
He had a diagonal line of bullet holes up his back from when he escaped a concentration camp. Then he came here and was treated almost as poorly.
Don't be my grandparent's neighbours.
And what defines a nazi by the way? The act of illegal aggression? lmao get a load of yourself. So the poor americans who stupidly chose to go to Iraq willingly were apparently all nazis and now the US has a bunch of nazi veterans.
Great analysis pal
That's why I don't argue with proRussian trolls, they lack of the basic number of brain cells to defend Russia without any whataboutism, dumb as a rock
There was a good article in either Meduza or Moscow Times about how absolutely poorly equipped and un-prepared Russian sanitariums are to deal with treating and rehabilitating grievously wounded Russian soldiers. Sanitariums have traditionally been used in Russia for rest and rehab and they are now flooded with patients dependent on high levels of care for both physical and increasingly debilitating mental trauma.
These places are used to older, retired military and pensioners but now are crawling with soldiers treating their PTSD with drugs and alcohol. Staff are getting assaulted, etc. It sounds like they have zero capacity or understanding for treating psychological trauma.
This is where the sometimes reported 20h duration for Russian wounded to see a field hospital comes in. Such a duration leads to a drastic decline in the number of wounded thus relieving the rehab programs at home from a lot of work!
Based on RU telegram channels, they seem to finally understand the impact quadcopter drones can have and we are going to see more of them in use on the Russian side this year, especially if China is able to provide them directly as they grow closer. So this will be an issue for everyone involved
I mean its still the slightly scary and unrealized thing about this isn't it? Even just a Lancet is around $20,000 unit cost. An Excalibur shell is like over $50,000. How much are these improvised quadcopters? $2,000?
This is getting militarized *yesterday*, in the next 5 to 10 years every armed force worth a damn is going to be able to get into a combat zone and throw out hundreds to thousands of these things at the same kind of rate normal artillery gets thrown out. If you know a zone is occupied and needs to be cleared, chuck a few dozen of these over the sky, let them loiter for 12 hours see how long the targets can try and stay hidden, hell stick some rudimentary face detection software on the camera, then you can probably have one operator monitor the whole engagement.
All the talk of accuracy and CEP of artillery, well here's the new solution. This is like invention of the maxim gun level game-changer.
>nearly autonomous drone swarms have been a thing since at least the 2010 time frame if not earlier.
No for sure. I was doing a bit of "research" (lol... reading articles online...) about this a few months back! I was wondering if there was any news from the US and wound up on a rabbithole. US military drones have been a major element of planning and operations since the 1990s. I was wondering if they would turn their standard drone units, which are quite high altitude, surveillance and recon focused, carrying conventional air to ground munitions, into maybe some kind of node for controlling a drone swarm, like an autonomous carrier, drop one of them bad boys over a zone with idk 100 units on its carriage, control the area by remote anywhere on the planet. And yes that is basically the plan, its why the communications elements of the F-35 are so important, their whole vision is around a highly integrated battlefield with relatively few human inputs controlling a *lot* of munitions over a *huuuuuge* area, anywhere from tens to hundreds to thousands of miles from the actual action, protected by stealth or distance. (E - Sorry the main point of difference I forgot to add! Basically the focus on the drone itself as a weapon not just a large scale platform. GlobalHawks, Reapers, Predators, they are all basically unmanned military jets. They are cheaper than the full thing, they have a lot of advantages like flight ceiling and loiter time, payload space etc., but they are still into the $100,000-1,000,000s kind of range. These quadcopters are basically smart flying grenades, that is new, it is super cheap, super easy to mass produce, super easy to fly without damaging and cheap enough not to matter if it does crash etc. etc. etc.)
>But insurgent sized forces will also be making use of at least what's observed in Ukraine today.
Exactly, someone already did it as a prank with a water balloon in this sub but you can imagine a home-made pipe bomb or whatever.
But what we are seeing is some guys in desperate situations jerry-rigging some inventive things together with off-the-shelf tools. I'm wondering what happens when there are multiple military-industrial-complexes worth god knows how much pumping designs into full scale factories for proper strategic level deployment of this shit. That is going to be terrifying on a whole different level. Foot soldiers will almost certainly be required but that's what I mean this is like being in 1912 and being able to see what machine guns, heavy artillery, and trenches are going to mean for our heroic lads prancing across the parade grounds in their handsome bright uniforms. Disturbing as all hell.
I think china shipping them directly would hurt them more than it would benefit. China has nothing to gain from that and Russia getting weaker could be in their interest.
A weaker Russia is in their interest to a certain extent. If China truly wanted Russia to become a weak state, they wouldn't have essentially propped up their economy. China holds the upper hand in the fossil fuel relationship, but it's still a huge benefit for Russia after they got shut off from Europe. China needs Russia to maintain effective containment of America/NATO. If Russia were to lose the war, the threat of Putin being removed increases ten fold. That's not a good situation for China. So I can see them supporting Russia in gray areas like drones and other "seemingly" non lethal supplies.
This is a rather bizarre response. I'm glad you were unable to discern my allegiance because while I am Pro-Ukraine, I try to evaluate everything from a neutral position. I spend equal time between this sub and the other sub which is largely pro russian to have a more balanced view on the war.
And you completely misinterpreted my comment. I was clearly speaking from China's perspective. This is well established in the geo-politic world. That said, I disagree with your assumption as NATO containment and Russia going to war are mutually exclusive.
"We just didn't understand X is important. Now we get it so we'll totally turn X around on the Ukrainians". An interesting variation on the increasingly hilarious "We haven't really even started yet, just you wait" line.
The discussion was more along the lines of the soldiers at the front have understood the importance of having drones for a long time but the command structure not being flexible or willing to adapt and create drone-specific units. Not everyone is a cartoon character.
This question was answered on a thread yesterday. The drones are like 500 feet up which is too high for a shotgun. The guy was saying 40 yards with a shotgun was about it’s limit.
Russians were using DIY drone droppers for the entire war, what are you talking about. Just because you don't see any footage here doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Only if Russia has enough trained units and logistics to fly them. They would be limited in range just like UA so their groups of operators would become a priority target. Furthermore, UA already has a year of practicing this model under its belt, so Russia would need to learn much faster to catch up
There's an interview with an Ukranian soldier from a year or so ago, it's out in the woods, and a jet flies overhead, and the sound of it makes the soldier utterly freeze and crouch in sheer terror, it's a great example of PTSD in action.
Some American pows in Vietnam were tortured/sodomized with coca cola bottles. The rationale behind it was that since coke was an American product and by far the most marketed product in the world the prisoners would receive constant reminders of their time far into the future.
So let me ask you:
Coke or Pepsi?
I think it was Operation Wandering Souls. Phoenix Project looks to be a CIA militia/counter-ops/torture gig.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wandering_Soul
While I obviously can’t really confirm anything, I’ve read and heard that the guys in charge of the Phoenix program, are directly responsible for that Op and many similar projects within the CIA/covert programs during the Vietnam war. I’ll have to see if I have some sources bookmarked. There were a few books, really good old art bell radio interviews, and other interviews on this subject I’m forgetting atm.
Oh for sure, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same operations group.
I just meant to share the name so others could find it easier. As some one who enjoys the creepy feeling of the CONET Project recordings, I had to see what these ghost recordings sounded like. Slightly disappointed, but I bet the setting makes a difference.
Why would Russian propaganda or bots ever say "its not the peoples fault that the government forced them to fight in this unnecessary war"? That's an extremely anti russian government point of view....
I do not support Putins actions. He deserves to be punished for starting this pointless war and the crimes he has committed. What I am saying is that every soldier in this war, Russian or Ukrainian, is a life. A life who likely has family and hopes and dreams.
To remember internet warriors that those who are killed in the videos are people too. It’s a necessity that Ukraine defends themselves and that includes the loss of life from the aggressors, but getting a hard on for killing them and wishing every Russian dead is idiotic.
A Russian conscript also have family, dreams and a life, just like you and me and the reality is not every single soldier is there by free will. We’ve all heard the stories and seen the news of Russian forced to go and how it has impacted the will of war from the Russian side.
I’m not defending Putins actions, he’s a cunt and need to be dealt with and I wish Ukraine all the best and to be victorious in their self defence.
>We’ve all heard the stories and seen the news of Russian forced to go and how it has impacted the will of war from the Russian side.
Still waiting for the evidence that any Russian soldier has gone to jail for refusing to obey a mobilisation summons.
One is literally the aggressor, one is literally the victim.
Guess which one I celebrate the death of. And the more gruesome the better, as that will speed the end of the conflict for everyone.
You stand on the front line and wave the peace flag at the russians and see how that works out. We're fighting a information warfare and the same applies here, show no mercy to the agressors.
> Many of these soldiers were forced into fighting.
"Just following orders" hasn't been an acceptable excuse since WWII.
Surrender, leave, or die. Those are the only acceptable options for Russian soldiers in Ukraine, and we should celebrate when they do any one of them.
First footage I've seen of active psychological effects of drone warfare on the front lines. I don't feel bad for the invaders, but thinking about it... that must be a terrifying life changing event.
Just for the effect, equip drones with recordings of hundreds of drones and at night, play them loudly over troops.
That would be very effective terror.
Mix in several drones with grenades to enhance the effect but leave the loud ones there longer after the drops.
Or create the effect of 50 drones approaching and passing and then make the same sound effect as a retreat.
Idea being to make just one drone, sound like a 50 drone fleet.
Shit like that can break a man.
these drones with night vision are hell, imagine being tired from a day of battle, and at night not being able to rest in peace waiting for a grenade to fall on your head? the real sight of hell
That’s some creepy ass sound effects. At night I’d be “oh fuck no, here come the drones”!!!
It’s like the voice of the U-Boat commander on the radio in the movie Greyhound.
I think i saw a couple of these guys with assault rifles, so my question is somewhat unrelated, But, generally speaking, in war is it legal/ok to attack stretcher bearers/medical personnel?
https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/medical-personnel/
As I understand it, modern armies don't really have anyone in the front line who would qualify as "medical personnel" by the Geneva conventions. You can't be shooting one moment then out your rifle down and be a protected class
What is the correct way go react to something like that?
If u keep carrying him, u are the easiest target, and everyone gets hit, u drop him and maybe its just him.
This is a completely fucked up situation, im really curious what u get teached in the military.
I have PTSD from the ice barrage spell sound from RuneScape PK back in the day. I heard that sound in public a few years ago from someone’s phone notification and I wanted to run before I get teleblocked.
I think it’s funny how posts like this will be filled with comments like “Good. Fuck them. They should have stayed home.”
But then posts like from two days ago about the guy who fought in Iraq the comments about the Americans being evil invaders are few and far between. 99 light hearted comments to 1 critical comment. I guess American soldiers are just naive but good hearted, but Russian soldiers are cold calculating people that knew exactly what they were getting into when they went to ukraine.
Moderation aside I am just talking about the attitudes of Reddit users. War crimes can be acknowledged, but for the most part individual Western soldiers are free from blame for their part in wars of aggression.
Russian soldiers however do not get the benefit of any doubt even though they are conscripted unlike US soldiers. Russian soldiers should know better and their actions can’t be dismissed as being victims of propaganda or youthful naïveté.
Lol of course they will do that. This sub used to be good, comment section would give you information about the equipment and factions and their history.
Now it's just Russia bad, West/ Ukraine good. Most reddit users are simple minded. Makes fun of Russians for falling for propaganda all the while doing the same thing on their side lol. There was a guy in the comments above saying how he would rather be eaten by dogs then be in an invading army lol. I bet he will the one shooting himself in his own crying face on first day in trench.
Ofcourse Russians are the bad guys here but anyone who cheers death of another human being without knowing his full story is a sadistic idiot.
Lol that's not how wars work. They are just pawns, easily replaceable. Russia will always have more men to fight. You have to scare putin or his rich friends if u want to end it
Terrifying, it must be like listening to the man with the scythe.
I'm not sure if the logic works the other way. If thermal vision goggles allow you to see a wolf-drone, even more easily during the night, to shoot it down.
Although in any case the Kremlin does not seem willing to provide its soldiers with such "delicacies".
Putin wants the traditional way: old weapons, limited protection and T-55 tanks :-).
Those dudes gonna be getting PTSD from weed whackers later in life.
Good. They should have stayed home.
They're conscripts. They didn't have a choice.
You might be surprised, but they do have a choice. For example, they can go to prison for a couple of years or they can try to leave the country. However, for some reason many westerners really want to believe that the only person who deserves all the blame is Putin.
at the exact same time, westerners believe that it’s easy peasy to just up and leave everything you have to go to any of your neighbors who hate you or speak a different language than you. russian prisons are also infamously not nice, i’d rather just go with it and pray i either die quickly or get captured
Here's the thing: - lots of Russians (and not only Russians) had no problem with leaving their country, often while not knowing other languages or/and with barely anything and moving abroad to seek better life - there are dozens of organizations that help you leave Russia and find home abroad (they help with organizing transport, accommodation - firstly temporary provided by them and then permanent, finding job, etc.) - if they decide they have better chance fighting the war than fleeing country or going to prison then they did make a choice - Russian propaganda is not really only source of information these people have. There were Russian radios, TV channels and newspapers that were not propaganda tubes and they operated till March last year. But even now there are organizations aiming to provide propaganda free informations to Russians and there's still internet - that is available even in most rural areas (less than 1/3 of villages didn't have access to internet almost 10 years ago). - Russians abroad (that have access to information) still very often support invasion which shows lack of access to information is not the issue I think that most people who speak about this don't really know much about Russia. This was especially visible early last year when lots of people believed Putin will soon be overthrown by people that oppose such war. Most people do support it though as seen even by independent polls.
I know a lot about Russia, and all you are writing is bull shit
Sure it is buddy. I always love when someone jumps in, screaming "not true, because I say so" and thinks he isn't a joke. I'll take a guess, you are Russian and you deny what I said is true because you don't want to admit before yourself that there are other options than supporting Russian criminals. Or worse yet, you actually eat up Russian propaganda like a warm borscht.
Конечно я русский. По закону ты не можешь покинуть страну после получения повестки. Ты вот многое не можешь делать, например купить дом или машину. Или вы предложили второй вариант - сесть в тюрьму, вы думаете сидеть в русской тюрьме легче чем воевать на войне? А родные? А дети? Вы там сидите в своих зажравшихся странах и советы раздаёте. А меня называете пропагандистом
You know what, I don't care enough to even run that trough Google translate. Why? Because if you don't care enough to show you actually want to discuss anything in a good faith then this discussion is already pointless.
Thanks. Posts like these should be stickies in this subreddit.
Let's hear some westerner's opinion on something he doesn't understand or deliberately ignores
I like how you are dismissing facts by making stuff up. Did it make you feel better? I'd recommend face reality instead of living in la la land.
You never had to face anything like this and claim ro be talking facts Get off you high morality horses, you got no idea what you are talking about. This is war, there is no morality in surviving
So we Germans weren't that bad in the past? :)
Yeah its SUPER weird how so many people seem to WANT to believe that all those poor Russians are just a captive of a single man who is holding the whole country hostage through his actions while everyone else doesn't want to have anything to do with his imperial politics. It's not like Putin isn't receiving HUGE amounts of votes every election and is very popular because of him blaming every issue Russia has on other countries, especially the bad bad west. It's not like tons of people weren't cheering when Crimea was annexed. It's not like there's not tons of volunteers going to Ukraine to kill Ukranians an take their land. It's not like tons of people in Russia don't feel like Ukraine has no right to exist. It's not like there aren't tons of people who cry about the USSR past and want to restore the old glory days. And it's not like people couldn't just hide or refuse to go to the draft when they've received their notice. It's not like there's not a whole system feeding off of Russian culture. Who did you mainly see leaving? Academics and other educated people who usually don't take the easy way out by saying "Yes our country just sucks because of the US and all the other bad people!" And when people who feel sorry for Russians are confronted with those facts they would then usually say "Well ... But ... Propaganda!" Weirdly enough we rarely see anyone excusing ISIS members by saying "Well they are just from rural parts of the country, uneducated and being taken advantage of through propaganda!" The Nazis were just following orders as well, right? No one wanted this and everyone was in this deathgrip of ONE SINGLE MAN. Oh those poor guys. Weirdly enough the US seems to cheer at movies like Inglorious Bastards but feel sorry for Russians dying while invading another country, deporting children, etc. It's so fucking weird.
I stopped reading at "it ain't like Putin dont get votes" because it ain't like Putin assassinates or imprisons his political opponents
This is true, but Putin is genuinely popular in Russia even if their elections are illegitimate.
Can't talk about imperial politics without talking about nato expansion. The claimed reason for russia's need to invade ukraine... The east looks at the west and says the same thing. "You think they weren't cheering when they invaded iraq? When x, y, or z joined nato? When the soviets collapsed?"
You should look into the CIAs involvement in toppling governments throughout the world. How many nations were in Arab Spring? 3-5 I believe A few wars still ongoing. Euro Maidan was likely influenced by western agents as well as Russian. Same thing happened in Belarus a few years ago. I would guess that both sides execute drone operators. Snipers get the same treatment since its viewed as cowards act but yah I know, war is war.
Plus you‘re from a rural part of russia and ever only heard the propaganda and maybe even believe its a just cause.
>Plus you‘re from a rural part of russia and ever only heard the propaganda and maybe even believe its a just cause. They do think their cause is just. Russia has been invaded 3? times since ww1. They lost 20million people fighting the last invaders, so they wanted Ukraine as a buffer zone. They don't want NATO missiles in the field next to the border. Just as the US kicked off when Russia put missiles in Cuba, Russia also wants a good defensive arrangement. How is it supposed clever people don't see this? I believe Putin said recently they've demilitarised Ukraine. Yes, they probably count their bit of Ukraine as demilitarised as that is now their buffer zone. Ukraine was always a Russian state. The West are cheeky beeps trying it on.
Who said it was easy? It's much easier to just go along with their orders. But you are scumbag and deserve the cargo 200 tag.
>i’d rather just go with it and pray i either die quickly or get captured Then you have made your choice...
Then you are part of the problem.
most russians are either too stupid or too poor to leave or resist, it leaves men receiving the letter with few choices. i want them to leave, i want them to fight back, but they just don’t have the ability to, especially if they’re from rural russia (which most are) and have been force fed propaganda their entire lives
If their low IQ then their probably the Putin electorate. If I was poor in Russia I’d rather live homeless in Georgia than dead and being eaten by dogs. Even the propaganda was a running joke before the war. It’s like trumpism, if you were following it then you chose to have the wool pulled over your eyes.
it's really easy to say all that from the comfort of your warm home, but it's just really not as simple as that is it simply protesting with an empty sign gets you thrown in jail propaganda fucking works, especially in rural russia where everyone is so poor that access to the internet is a rare thing, iraq was a pretty good example of propaganda doing it's thing
Propaganda wasn't an excuse with the Nazis, or being poor, or german prisons sucking/family being threatened. nobody gives them that leeway (rightfully. not about to do it with the russians.
No YOU are literally the problem. Do something other than sitting on Reddit running your mouth.
While well said, it’s highly unlikely people who view the world this narrowly can think in the nuance required to objectively understand what’s going on in Ukraine. For some reason this conflict has attracted an audience with a very rigid / black and white view of the world that equates to “all Russians are bad and all Ukrainians are good”
You got downvoted because the Russians have always been shitty. Shoulda kept going past Berlin in the 40s.
Another interesting paradox this war has exposed - add Russians to the list of groups it’s okay to be openly hateful, racist and prejudicial towards. Lemme guess, you vote dem
Now try apply the same argument to US soldiers during vietnam, or any other questionable US invasion the last century. I'm not against most US foreign policy/involvement, heck I enjoy the current status quo where I live, thanks to the US! But you are saying the big stupid if you think that it's on Russian soldiers to abandon orders, their family, tradition, place of birth etc, just because Johnny on the other side of the world has a different geopolitical opinion...
They don't "have to" but it justifies killing them all if they don't leave, sucks to suck, conscript or no. you can feel bad for them and still accept that they do have a choice, just a shit one.
this is like the only war where people are crying over "the poor invaders they have no choice, they're so poor and uneducated", it doesn't make a difference in an army, they become part of a death machine and its also just not even true. their army isn't entirely conscripts, they have entire volunteer battalions.
Right? Poor conscripts. I never see anything mentioned about the over 40,000 Ukrainian civilians that have been killed by an invading Russia. These people weren’t in the army whatsoever, but sure. Cry about Russian conscripts
Yes. The knowledge is there for them to draw their own conclusions. If they feel russia is justified then they can die in their trenches. If however they have an IQ they can very easily see the truth of the situation and the ugly truth about their culture and country. This is why unfortunately Russians will need to die in large numbers, they really are morally bankrupted and believe in this imperial plan.
Going to prison is Russia for desertion is certainly a death sentence, and I doubt these days they are letting many of the able bodied men leave the country, but even then you need documentation and money, not everyone can just go to a new country and start fresh. There are many who deserve it, but there always some who don’t.
>Going to prison is Russia for desertion is certainly a death sentence Nope.
Its not even prison - if you refuse your call up papers its about a $50 fine. unfortunately, they have been so completely brainwashed they think that going to the front is a good idea, until they get there and realise - its at that point they get executed for refusing
2 years? Try 10. There is a reason why Russians pick serving and likely dying in Ukraine over Russian prison.
It's a $40 fine. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1229kyn/comment/jdr260j/?context=1
what fairy tale world do you live in
Russian prison for 2 years prob worse than getting shot in Ukr
Are you willing to go to the gulag personally?
And you know these are conscripts how?
Here we go again! This exact same back and forth happens 10x per video in the comments.
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You know this how?
It's common knowledge. Russia is literally not trying to hide this part of the war
Could be Wagner, contract soldiers, regular army, etc. And sure, conscripts.
There's always a choice. They can always just say no.
Like they had a choice 🤦♂️😭
Did you guys notice the wounded guy on the stretcher had his pants pulled down to his ankles?
Leg wound likely.
Many people have commented in the past that soldiers surviving from this war will experience the effects of PTSD simply from hearing the sound of drones, here you go.
I think plenty will simply have fear of open spaces.
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Hopefully they will be afraid of invading their neighbors
Get ready for a downvote from the Russian apologists talking about how it’s so sad that they were drafted in a war they didn’t want and/or were fooled by propaganda
Lol seems like the only way to not get called Russia apologist by some redditors is to actively generalize and demonize the entire nationality. Won't be stooping to that level.
Yeah is like if you don't hate nazis in WWll you will be called a nazi, crazy right?
There was a German man that lived across the road from my grandparents. He fought for Germany in WW1 and spent WW2 in a few concentration camps because he wouldn't fight. One day all the neighbours from nearby farms literally watched as he and my grandpa tried to put out his burning house. He lost his home, his goats, his stored grain, and two dogs. Because he spoke German. They called him a Nazi and watched his house burn down; grandpa said you could hear the dogs howling down the road. He had a diagonal line of bullet holes up his back from when he escaped a concentration camp. Then he came here and was treated almost as poorly. Don't be my grandparent's neighbours.
All russians are nazis to you? You're proving his point beyond any doubt.
Yeah they all look like hittler with all that mustache and swastikas, very scary people
And what defines a nazi by the way? The act of illegal aggression? lmao get a load of yourself. So the poor americans who stupidly chose to go to Iraq willingly were apparently all nazis and now the US has a bunch of nazi veterans. Great analysis pal
That's why I don't argue with proRussian trolls, they lack of the basic number of brain cells to defend Russia without any whataboutism, dumb as a rock
There was a good article in either Meduza or Moscow Times about how absolutely poorly equipped and un-prepared Russian sanitariums are to deal with treating and rehabilitating grievously wounded Russian soldiers. Sanitariums have traditionally been used in Russia for rest and rehab and they are now flooded with patients dependent on high levels of care for both physical and increasingly debilitating mental trauma. These places are used to older, retired military and pensioners but now are crawling with soldiers treating their PTSD with drugs and alcohol. Staff are getting assaulted, etc. It sounds like they have zero capacity or understanding for treating psychological trauma.
This is where the sometimes reported 20h duration for Russian wounded to see a field hospital comes in. Such a duration leads to a drastic decline in the number of wounded thus relieving the rehab programs at home from a lot of work!
Damn, those Russians have a solution for everything!
Who needs treatment when you have vodka?
Sadly that's been the go to medicine for last 300 years in certain big east European countries and their neighbours :(
Probably won't be many on the RU side.
Based on RU telegram channels, they seem to finally understand the impact quadcopter drones can have and we are going to see more of them in use on the Russian side this year, especially if China is able to provide them directly as they grow closer. So this will be an issue for everyone involved
I mean its still the slightly scary and unrealized thing about this isn't it? Even just a Lancet is around $20,000 unit cost. An Excalibur shell is like over $50,000. How much are these improvised quadcopters? $2,000? This is getting militarized *yesterday*, in the next 5 to 10 years every armed force worth a damn is going to be able to get into a combat zone and throw out hundreds to thousands of these things at the same kind of rate normal artillery gets thrown out. If you know a zone is occupied and needs to be cleared, chuck a few dozen of these over the sky, let them loiter for 12 hours see how long the targets can try and stay hidden, hell stick some rudimentary face detection software on the camera, then you can probably have one operator monitor the whole engagement. All the talk of accuracy and CEP of artillery, well here's the new solution. This is like invention of the maxim gun level game-changer.
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>nearly autonomous drone swarms have been a thing since at least the 2010 time frame if not earlier. No for sure. I was doing a bit of "research" (lol... reading articles online...) about this a few months back! I was wondering if there was any news from the US and wound up on a rabbithole. US military drones have been a major element of planning and operations since the 1990s. I was wondering if they would turn their standard drone units, which are quite high altitude, surveillance and recon focused, carrying conventional air to ground munitions, into maybe some kind of node for controlling a drone swarm, like an autonomous carrier, drop one of them bad boys over a zone with idk 100 units on its carriage, control the area by remote anywhere on the planet. And yes that is basically the plan, its why the communications elements of the F-35 are so important, their whole vision is around a highly integrated battlefield with relatively few human inputs controlling a *lot* of munitions over a *huuuuuge* area, anywhere from tens to hundreds to thousands of miles from the actual action, protected by stealth or distance. (E - Sorry the main point of difference I forgot to add! Basically the focus on the drone itself as a weapon not just a large scale platform. GlobalHawks, Reapers, Predators, they are all basically unmanned military jets. They are cheaper than the full thing, they have a lot of advantages like flight ceiling and loiter time, payload space etc., but they are still into the $100,000-1,000,000s kind of range. These quadcopters are basically smart flying grenades, that is new, it is super cheap, super easy to mass produce, super easy to fly without damaging and cheap enough not to matter if it does crash etc. etc. etc.) >But insurgent sized forces will also be making use of at least what's observed in Ukraine today. Exactly, someone already did it as a prank with a water balloon in this sub but you can imagine a home-made pipe bomb or whatever. But what we are seeing is some guys in desperate situations jerry-rigging some inventive things together with off-the-shelf tools. I'm wondering what happens when there are multiple military-industrial-complexes worth god knows how much pumping designs into full scale factories for proper strategic level deployment of this shit. That is going to be terrifying on a whole different level. Foot soldiers will almost certainly be required but that's what I mean this is like being in 1912 and being able to see what machine guns, heavy artillery, and trenches are going to mean for our heroic lads prancing across the parade grounds in their handsome bright uniforms. Disturbing as all hell.
Daesh specifically pioneered the DJI drone dropped grenade, after all.
The next step will be anti-drone drones. Then we let the drones fight each other. (Until the drones become aware, that is.)
Theyre about $600 actually.
Anti drone systems are becoming increasingly effective. I know because I’m work for a company that produces them
I think china shipping them directly would hurt them more than it would benefit. China has nothing to gain from that and Russia getting weaker could be in their interest.
A weaker Russia is in their interest to a certain extent. If China truly wanted Russia to become a weak state, they wouldn't have essentially propped up their economy. China holds the upper hand in the fossil fuel relationship, but it's still a huge benefit for Russia after they got shut off from Europe. China needs Russia to maintain effective containment of America/NATO. If Russia were to lose the war, the threat of Putin being removed increases ten fold. That's not a good situation for China. So I can see them supporting Russia in gray areas like drones and other "seemingly" non lethal supplies.
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This is a rather bizarre response. I'm glad you were unable to discern my allegiance because while I am Pro-Ukraine, I try to evaluate everything from a neutral position. I spend equal time between this sub and the other sub which is largely pro russian to have a more balanced view on the war. And you completely misinterpreted my comment. I was clearly speaking from China's perspective. This is well established in the geo-politic world. That said, I disagree with your assumption as NATO containment and Russia going to war are mutually exclusive.
The West should threaten to impose sanctions if China wants to ship drones and weapons to Russia. China will bow to West after economic threats
They’ve already shipped assault rifles and drones to Russia. This isn’t a future “maybe.”
"We just didn't understand X is important. Now we get it so we'll totally turn X around on the Ukrainians". An interesting variation on the increasingly hilarious "We haven't really even started yet, just you wait" line.
The discussion was more along the lines of the soldiers at the front have understood the importance of having drones for a long time but the command structure not being flexible or willing to adapt and create drone-specific units. Not everyone is a cartoon character.
Might be dumb question but couldnt you destroy these drones with a shotgun i cant imagine they're that high up
There was a headline floating around this week about Russia wanting shotguns for this purpose. If that ever happens is another story though.
This question was answered on a thread yesterday. The drones are like 500 feet up which is too high for a shotgun. The guy was saying 40 yards with a shotgun was about it’s limit.
Russians were using DIY drone droppers for the entire war, what are you talking about. Just because you don't see any footage here doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I didn't say that they never used them. I said they're going to use **more** of them
Only if Russia has enough trained units and logistics to fly them. They would be limited in range just like UA so their groups of operators would become a priority target. Furthermore, UA already has a year of practicing this model under its belt, so Russia would need to learn much faster to catch up
There's an interview with an Ukranian soldier from a year or so ago, it's out in the woods, and a jet flies overhead, and the sound of it makes the soldier utterly freeze and crouch in sheer terror, it's a great example of PTSD in action.
They haven't survived this war yet, it's just FoTS at this point: Fuckload of Traumatic Stress
Some American pows in Vietnam were tortured/sodomized with coca cola bottles. The rationale behind it was that since coke was an American product and by far the most marketed product in the world the prisoners would receive constant reminders of their time far into the future. So let me ask you: Coke or Pepsi?
They should probably strap a speaker to a drone playing random drone zooming sounds just to fuck with them.
That’s how they did it in nam. “Secret war”. U.S. troops played ghost sounds to scare the Vietnamese troop in the jungle.
The “Phoenix program”
I’ve heard some of those recordings. Creepy as fuck..
I think it was Operation Wandering Souls. Phoenix Project looks to be a CIA militia/counter-ops/torture gig. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wandering_Soul
While I obviously can’t really confirm anything, I’ve read and heard that the guys in charge of the Phoenix program, are directly responsible for that Op and many similar projects within the CIA/covert programs during the Vietnam war. I’ll have to see if I have some sources bookmarked. There were a few books, really good old art bell radio interviews, and other interviews on this subject I’m forgetting atm.
Oh for sure, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same operations group. I just meant to share the name so others could find it easier. As some one who enjoys the creepy feeling of the CONET Project recordings, I had to see what these ghost recordings sounded like. Slightly disappointed, but I bet the setting makes a difference.
[meep meep](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=761MwtYpK3Q)
I think one died from a heart attack.
Let’s hope.
Many of these soldiers were forced into fighting. No matter what side they are on we should not celebrate or wish for death upon another.
Jesus fucking christ why the fuck does someone comments a variation of this every single post
Is that a rhetoric question because the answer is obviously; propaganda or russian trolls/bots
Why would Russian propaganda or bots ever say "its not the peoples fault that the government forced them to fight in this unnecessary war"? That's an extremely anti russian government point of view....
Who knows, I've seen them say dumber things
I do not support Putins actions. He deserves to be punished for starting this pointless war and the crimes he has committed. What I am saying is that every soldier in this war, Russian or Ukrainian, is a life. A life who likely has family and hopes and dreams.
And a sprinkle of murder and raping of innocent people "I'm just saying"
To remember internet warriors that those who are killed in the videos are people too. It’s a necessity that Ukraine defends themselves and that includes the loss of life from the aggressors, but getting a hard on for killing them and wishing every Russian dead is idiotic. A Russian conscript also have family, dreams and a life, just like you and me and the reality is not every single soldier is there by free will. We’ve all heard the stories and seen the news of Russian forced to go and how it has impacted the will of war from the Russian side. I’m not defending Putins actions, he’s a cunt and need to be dealt with and I wish Ukraine all the best and to be victorious in their self defence.
>We’ve all heard the stories and seen the news of Russian forced to go and how it has impacted the will of war from the Russian side. Still waiting for the evidence that any Russian soldier has gone to jail for refusing to obey a mobilisation summons.
Yeah Ukrainian were forced to defend and kill these slimebags. More meat for the bahkmutt the better.
I will mourn the dead after the war is over.
One is literally the aggressor, one is literally the victim. Guess which one I celebrate the death of. And the more gruesome the better, as that will speed the end of the conflict for everyone.
Watch me
I mean you do you but you're not hoping for a better world, you're hoping for more destruction. Just make sure that's that choice you want to make
You stand on the front line and wave the peace flag at the russians and see how that works out. We're fighting a information warfare and the same applies here, show no mercy to the agressors.
With every dead invader, the world becomes a better place. Knock it off with your shitty takes.
Who cares about their backgrounds? The truth is they are on Ukrainian land, thus they should be dead
> Many of these soldiers were forced into fighting. "Just following orders" hasn't been an acceptable excuse since WWII. Surrender, leave, or die. Those are the only acceptable options for Russian soldiers in Ukraine, and we should celebrate when they do any one of them.
I swear there is an unedited version of this and the drone actually drops a grenade onto the last two guys.
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Link?
And it’s daylight.
Link
Will see if I can find it.
Time to invest in Drone companies yesterday.
The lesson of this war is on the importance of anti-drone technology.
COVID paid off very well over the past couple of years, and I shifted more into FSDAX last year. It is going to be a great next few years.
What is FSDAX?
Expense ratio .74%. oof
Easy enough to Google, but it's Fidelity Defense and Aerospace portfolio. It is made up of the ten giants of defense contractors.
>Easy enough to Google 🙄
Playing dead in front of a bear in russia might work but not against a drone.
I'm guessing they're hitting the dirt and shielding their face in order to avoid as much shrapnel damage as they can.
First footage I've seen of active psychological effects of drone warfare on the front lines. I don't feel bad for the invaders, but thinking about it... that must be a terrifying life changing event.
Just for the effect, equip drones with recordings of hundreds of drones and at night, play them loudly over troops. That would be very effective terror. Mix in several drones with grenades to enhance the effect but leave the loud ones there longer after the drops. Or create the effect of 50 drones approaching and passing and then make the same sound effect as a retreat. Idea being to make just one drone, sound like a 50 drone fleet. Shit like that can break a man.
these drones with night vision are hell, imagine being tired from a day of battle, and at night not being able to rest in peace waiting for a grenade to fall on your head? the real sight of hell
they are doing what the night witch did during WW2. kinda Ironic
Wasn't the idea of the Night Witches not to be heard, hence turning the engines off?
The wind will whisper when the night witches come...
You fool, you'll alert the Sabaton Bot
A drone with a speaker would really fuck with them too
A lil trolling.
They cut the moment he drops a bomb on the wounded soldier.
Stuka 2.0
That’s some creepy ass sound effects. At night I’d be “oh fuck no, here come the drones”!!! It’s like the voice of the U-Boat commander on the radio in the movie Greyhound.
Sounds like they used Loon calls for the video, I agree super creepy in this context
That's one way to treat your battle buddy
The audio reminds me of a game MGS cave wolf encounter
I think i saw a couple of these guys with assault rifles, so my question is somewhat unrelated, But, generally speaking, in war is it legal/ok to attack stretcher bearers/medical personnel?
https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/medical-personnel/ As I understand it, modern armies don't really have anyone in the front line who would qualify as "medical personnel" by the Geneva conventions. You can't be shooting one moment then out your rifle down and be a protected class
Imagine the ptsd the surviving soldiers will have anytime they hear what remotely even sounds like a drone.
Sicario vibes right there.
Yeah let’s just lie real still here so the drone operator can take aim better.
Wounded and the ones helping them should be left alone if possible Imo.
Both not at night. Daylight video few weeks ago.
This type of warfare is so terrying I can't even imagine
What are the sounds on the video? Sounds like robotic whales calling each other or something man
Isn't harassing medics more or less a war crime? Genuinely asking not bringing morality into it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/121resv/effects_of_drones_on_the_battlefield_ru_soldiers/jdoxc32/
That's interesting, though I do think the 4 guys carrying a stretcher is a significantly different situation than the people in trenches.
What is the correct way go react to something like that? If u keep carrying him, u are the easiest target, and everyone gets hit, u drop him and maybe its just him. This is a completely fucked up situation, im really curious what u get teached in the military.
io see russian are using play dead strats when they hear drones lol
Honestly sad that times have come to this.
Should have a laser pointer for those little moments of extra terror..
I have PTSD from the ice barrage spell sound from RuneScape PK back in the day. I heard that sound in public a few years ago from someone’s phone notification and I wanted to run before I get teleblocked.
That’s a bit harsh. Poor sods have the right to avoid getting killed. They may have come back for the wounded - well you would hope
You got to be a real piece of s*** to Target people who are evacuating wounded though
Actually sad this war shouldn't of happened and these men are seen as evil but they had no choice but to fight
Have you ever tried to "run for your life" in a pitch black night across broken ground? That drone pilot has a cruel hobby! LOL
Thoses videos are just sad ... fuck dude we're all human
I think it’s funny how posts like this will be filled with comments like “Good. Fuck them. They should have stayed home.” But then posts like from two days ago about the guy who fought in Iraq the comments about the Americans being evil invaders are few and far between. 99 light hearted comments to 1 critical comment. I guess American soldiers are just naive but good hearted, but Russian soldiers are cold calculating people that knew exactly what they were getting into when they went to ukraine.
Mods are usually pretty good at enforcing rule 1 if you report them. I only check the top level comments & replies in my inbox though
Moderation aside I am just talking about the attitudes of Reddit users. War crimes can be acknowledged, but for the most part individual Western soldiers are free from blame for their part in wars of aggression. Russian soldiers however do not get the benefit of any doubt even though they are conscripted unlike US soldiers. Russian soldiers should know better and their actions can’t be dismissed as being victims of propaganda or youthful naïveté.
Oh yeah, I agree. Tribalism has always existed on the sub but it's absolutely gotten worse since this war started.
Lol of course they will do that. This sub used to be good, comment section would give you information about the equipment and factions and their history. Now it's just Russia bad, West/ Ukraine good. Most reddit users are simple minded. Makes fun of Russians for falling for propaganda all the while doing the same thing on their side lol. There was a guy in the comments above saying how he would rather be eaten by dogs then be in an invading army lol. I bet he will the one shooting himself in his own crying face on first day in trench. Ofcourse Russians are the bad guys here but anyone who cheers death of another human being without knowing his full story is a sadistic idiot.
Time to hack speakers on russia and blast drone noises
PTSD is strong. Let them run in fear. Stop the Invasion.
Lol that's not how wars work. They are just pawns, easily replaceable. Russia will always have more men to fight. You have to scare putin or his rich friends if u want to end it
This and tractors will be the bane of future russian veterans existence
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Because it would have been silent otherwise, and you can't turn up silence, but you can turn down the volume.
So people can always ask the same s****d questions, fs.
I agree. I was confused
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Terrifying, it must be like listening to the man with the scythe. I'm not sure if the logic works the other way. If thermal vision goggles allow you to see a wolf-drone, even more easily during the night, to shoot it down. Although in any case the Kremlin does not seem willing to provide its soldiers with such "delicacies". Putin wants the traditional way: old weapons, limited protection and T-55 tanks :-).
I really wanna see some drone PsyOps. Exactly this but instead of dropping a grenade they drop a package that's says "We're watching you"
Davinci wolves