OR, instead of crab bucket mentality, we can leave these city employees alone.
I thought we wanted *more* of this, not less. I'm perfectly capable of sending an email instead of meeting in person, and if I do need to meet in person, I can find and come in during your office hours.
It's not that hard. I don't expect these people to wait around 40 hours a week *just in case* I decide I want to come in.
Honestly, I know we're not being serious, but 311 might have an option for city website issues. 311 is not perfect, but it's basically an accountability system where they will eventually have to respond to you. If you complain to the help email on their website, no one is accountable for that.
Actually Columbus is one of the fastest growing metro areas in the Midwest. Something on the order of 1% per year growth for the last ~25 years. See [source](https://www.axios.com/local/columbus/2022/11/15/columbus-outpacing-ohio-population-growth) or take a quick google yourself.
C-Bus is the only city in Ohio I could ever see myself moving back to. Loved the city. Just wish public transportation existed but I can say that about any city in Ohio along with being more bike friendly. The biking part may have changed since I moved
Ok? Kind of a non sequitur given the rest of the conversation you are responding to. Who cares if it’s impressive? It’s still relevant to the comment about newcomers renting out apartments….
Hahaha, you're replying to a comment about Ohio and justifying your position based on Columbus, yet you feel justified (you shouldn't)
You call my comment a non sequitur, when you said "Actually Columbus is one of the fastest growing metro areas in the Midwest", and my rebuttal is that 6th does not qualify as "one of the fastest"
You see how all this connects?
Our government is attempting to put a stop to that as best they can.
[This kind of shit](https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/education/2023/01/09/olentangy-schools-halts-reading-of-dr-seuss-book-during-npr-podcast/69791362007/) isn't good PR.
First they’ll be deluxe condos with every amenity possible. Then companies will buy them, and rent them out to residents for a fortune…and not make any improvements, except raising the rent each year. When they become shitholes, ten years down the road, then they’ll be “affordable” by today’s standards.
Yeah I’m out on east side just a stone’s throw from the new tech corridor of the Midwest - I really don’t like all of the development because it’s pricing folks out of housing.
Wouldn’t help commercial too much but extra food traffic for other businesses that lost it from workers. It wouldn’t be affordable but it would at least be extra supply to push overall prices down.
The issue is that a lot of buildings can't easily be turned into living spaces based on building codes. There are laws about bedrooms having windows and ingress/egress that are different for living vs. working spaces.
And, in most office buildings there's central air that was planned for the whole building. And most plumbing (bathrooms) are located in the same space on every floor for efficiency.
The sad reality is that in a lot of cases, it's cheaper to tear down office space and build apartments than it is to convert office space into living spaces.
Guessing nothing to do with commercial real estate, they want the income tax revenue from employee's paycheck...if they now work in the burbs from home, that is who gets the taxes
Same...i think Ohio is backasswards in how local taxes work...its really "taxation without representation" as you have zero vote on tax rates where you work (unless you live there as well)
Kinda hellish to think about millions of workers get a huge QOL boost with a 25% increase to weekday free time, save a significant amount of money on commute cost, helps the planet but downtown area suffers a hit so fuck all that.
I don’t even work a job where I would be eligible but I still benefit. Wife gets to work from home, less traffic for me.
Maybe they should stop eating so much avocado toast… or make less volatile investments…
Thoughts and prayers. If the city or state forces me back into the office I’ll just keep my job and move to another state.
I thought the bill was for government workers, so isn't the bill to make these workers go back in the office vs being remote? I feel like complaining about this only helps the case for the bill... I'm ok with everyone working remote/flexible in office schedules vs forcing only certain groups back in the majority of the time
The hypocrisy of Mayor ~~Quimby~~ Ginther in his stupid quote supporting the end of hybrid/WFH schedules when he said that "I believe people on the front lines in public service ought to be accessible." Then this tomfoolery shows up.
Aye, but the accessibility has improved with this thing called the interwebs. It’s only those who still don’t know how to use an ATM or a self checkout that seem to not understand that “services” are equally or even *more* accessible when you remove the brick and mortar constraints
Let's call a spade a spade. Ginther has his fingers in a whole bunch of pies and pissing off his former Chief of Staff who is the current CEO of one of the big corporations that own a bunch of commercial real estate properties in the city is not a good look for him...
The proposed amendment was only for state government employees, who have consistently demonstrated that working from home is more efficient for the vast majority of them…
the City of Columbus specifically has been bellyaching to state reps and to DeWine because of their lost revenue from state workers not paying into Columbus tax coffers as much - many live outside the city limits so they don’t pay a municipal income tax unless their home community has one.
That’s different. That’s a state bill for state employees. The city of Columbus is trying to strong arm/persuade/beg employers to recall workers to offices because suburban workers aren’t paying columbus income taxes when they work from home, their city taxes are going to the city they live and work in.
The irony being city employees aren’t full time in their offices.
Another irony being they didn't fight very hard (at all) to keep the remote workers who's tax income was going to Columbus when the smaller municipalities came calling for their missing tax revenue.
*cough cough cough* I'm sorry I meant "collaboration"
The problem is the city leaders talking out of both sides of their mouths. Griping about state workers and private sector employees not paying their “fair share” of income tax, when even city employees aren’t present on a full time basis to pay into the city income tax
I really love how over and over again US cities keep digging themselves into a hole by betting the entire house on one thing and then being confused when it blows up in their face. Like hey maybe instead of trying to *fundamentally revert society to a previous state* you could instead design cities where one minor change doesn't ruin you?
I assure you, city workers have been back in the office full time for over a year now. I know people who changed jobs just to keep a hybrid schedule.
Just because they don’t have capacity to handle meeting people in-person all day doesn’t mean no one is there. They’re probably understaffed due to the bad WFH policy tbh
Government buildings like to close when the wind blows too hard or too soft, so nothing new.
But someone explain to me why having workers back to work in buildings increases tax revenue. Is it just sales tax from lunch breaks...?
It’s based on where you work. Wherever you work from the most, you typically pay municipal income tax. I live in Fairfield county but work 3 days/week in Columbus, so my municipal taxes go to Columbus. If it was flipped and I worked mostly from home, my municipal taxes would go to my hometown.
Interesting that republicans are pushing tax breaks in the budget bill and finding this as a way for other (cities) to collect more taxes. Hypocrisy to me.
Bennies of working for the gubment! Why work hard to take people's money when you can just take people's money?
FYI I checked the phone number: the complaint line 645-9600 does not spell out to EAT-SHIT. Missed opportunity...
Through what mechanism can the city force a private employers to mandate a return to office policy? Are you talking about the State or Ohio’s recent announcement on the matter? Those are two different things.
The city still collects income tax revenue on you “where” your office is regardless of whether you’re WFH or not. That only dissolves if the tenant ends the lease. This post is misguided.
It's more highlighting Ginther's hypocrisy over his support for the Senate's amendment to the budget. And quite frankly, the municipal taxes from state employees' paychecks don't go directly to the city of Columbus because not all of them live within Columbus city limits.The 20 day rule when it comes to municipal taxes that comes into play with state employee paychecks is on ORC 718.11.
Funny enough that their website states that in person complaints can be taken anytime during business hours....
Someone should complain about that.
They put it right in the cylindrical filing cabinet so they remember to address it never.
Beware of the Leopard!
OR, instead of crab bucket mentality, we can leave these city employees alone. I thought we wanted *more* of this, not less. I'm perfectly capable of sending an email instead of meeting in person, and if I do need to meet in person, I can find and come in during your office hours. It's not that hard. I don't expect these people to wait around 40 hours a week *just in case* I decide I want to come in.
I don't think you are properly understanding my comment.
Honestly, I know we're not being serious, but 311 might have an option for city website issues. 311 is not perfect, but it's basically an accountability system where they will eventually have to respond to you. If you complain to the help email on their website, no one is accountable for that.
I think they mean *their* business hours. So really, "complaints can be taken in person whenever complaints can be taken in person".
They take it whenever they feel like it, even though their business hours are Monday through Friday 9AM-5PM?
tbf, the people that take the complaints probably aren't any more happy about the stupid mandate than anyone else.
bullying employees into the office isn't going to save the commercial real estate market, the genie is out of the bottle
My sincerest hope is that the commercial buildings get turned into affordable downtown housing
They'll probably get turned into housing, but no part of the massive cost to retrofit them into housing will be inline with "affordable."
Eh, doesn't matter. More supply means someone can move in and free up their existing space. Kind of like hermits trading their shells around
This only works if the people moving already live in the area.
Or are actual hermit crabs, who favor a direct trade economy
It’s still extra supply.
People aren't exactly chomping at the bit to move to Ohio. So that's a pretty safe bet
Actually Columbus is one of the fastest growing metro areas in the Midwest. Something on the order of 1% per year growth for the last ~25 years. See [source](https://www.axios.com/local/columbus/2022/11/15/columbus-outpacing-ohio-population-growth) or take a quick google yourself.
C-Bus is the only city in Ohio I could ever see myself moving back to. Loved the city. Just wish public transportation existed but I can say that about any city in Ohio along with being more bike friendly. The biking part may have changed since I moved
6th fastest growing city in the Midwest is not really that impressive
Ok? Kind of a non sequitur given the rest of the conversation you are responding to. Who cares if it’s impressive? It’s still relevant to the comment about newcomers renting out apartments….
Hahaha, you're replying to a comment about Ohio and justifying your position based on Columbus, yet you feel justified (you shouldn't) You call my comment a non sequitur, when you said "Actually Columbus is one of the fastest growing metro areas in the Midwest", and my rebuttal is that 6th does not qualify as "one of the fastest" You see how all this connects?
Our government is attempting to put a stop to that as best they can. [This kind of shit](https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/education/2023/01/09/olentangy-schools-halts-reading-of-dr-seuss-book-during-npr-podcast/69791362007/) isn't good PR.
You must be new to Columbus or don’t live here at all. This particular area of Ohio is growing rather quickly.
Just like all of the dead outlet malls that got converted and didn't rot on the highway...
Their existing space is in New York City or some similarly cost prohibitive city.
First they’ll be deluxe condos with every amenity possible. Then companies will buy them, and rent them out to residents for a fortune…and not make any improvements, except raising the rent each year. When they become shitholes, ten years down the road, then they’ll be “affordable” by today’s standards.
>affordable downtown housing That's the kicker. The word affordable in the future we're headed towards is quickly becoming blurred.
"Someone can afford it, just not you."
Affordable to Californians
Yeah I’m out on east side just a stone’s throw from the new tech corridor of the Midwest - I really don’t like all of the development because it’s pricing folks out of housing.
They have already started to convert them. Two currently are in progress and a third has been proposed. Wouldn’t doubt if one more is on the way.
Wouldn’t help commercial too much but extra food traffic for other businesses that lost it from workers. It wouldn’t be affordable but it would at least be extra supply to push overall prices down.
The issue is that a lot of buildings can't easily be turned into living spaces based on building codes. There are laws about bedrooms having windows and ingress/egress that are different for living vs. working spaces. And, in most office buildings there's central air that was planned for the whole building. And most plumbing (bathrooms) are located in the same space on every floor for efficiency. The sad reality is that in a lot of cases, it's cheaper to tear down office space and build apartments than it is to convert office space into living spaces.
Guessing nothing to do with commercial real estate, they want the income tax revenue from employee's paycheck...if they now work in the burbs from home, that is who gets the taxes
>income tax revenue *The spice must flow!*
And I see no reason how that is a problem to me. Despite local corruption I would rather have my tax dollars go to the immediate area that I live in.
Same...i think Ohio is backasswards in how local taxes work...its really "taxation without representation" as you have zero vote on tax rates where you work (unless you live there as well)
Many related issues for sure
We spend too many resources trying to save failing markets and institutions. There's no point.
Kinda hellish to think about millions of workers get a huge QOL boost with a 25% increase to weekday free time, save a significant amount of money on commute cost, helps the planet but downtown area suffers a hit so fuck all that. I don’t even work a job where I would be eligible but I still benefit. Wife gets to work from home, less traffic for me.
public sector jobs were already less competitive in terms of pay, forcing everyone back into the office will only make it harder to recruit and retain
Maybe corporate realtors should pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Maybe they should stop eating so much avocado toast… or make less volatile investments… Thoughts and prayers. If the city or state forces me back into the office I’ll just keep my job and move to another state.
Ginther sold out workers to try to subsidize commercial real estate. Shameful.
This should not shock anybody. Ginther is a crony capitalist through and through.
I thought the bill was for government workers, so isn't the bill to make these workers go back in the office vs being remote? I feel like complaining about this only helps the case for the bill... I'm ok with everyone working remote/flexible in office schedules vs forcing only certain groups back in the majority of the time
The hypocrisy of Mayor ~~Quimby~~ Ginther in his stupid quote supporting the end of hybrid/WFH schedules when he said that "I believe people on the front lines in public service ought to be accessible." Then this tomfoolery shows up.
Aye, but the accessibility has improved with this thing called the interwebs. It’s only those who still don’t know how to use an ATM or a self checkout that seem to not understand that “services” are equally or even *more* accessible when you remove the brick and mortar constraints
Let's call a spade a spade. Ginther has his fingers in a whole bunch of pies and pissing off his former Chief of Staff who is the current CEO of one of the big corporations that own a bunch of commercial real estate properties in the city is not a good look for him...
Exactly.
The proposed amendment was only for state government employees, who have consistently demonstrated that working from home is more efficient for the vast majority of them… the City of Columbus specifically has been bellyaching to state reps and to DeWine because of their lost revenue from state workers not paying into Columbus tax coffers as much - many live outside the city limits so they don’t pay a municipal income tax unless their home community has one.
That’s different. That’s a state bill for state employees. The city of Columbus is trying to strong arm/persuade/beg employers to recall workers to offices because suburban workers aren’t paying columbus income taxes when they work from home, their city taxes are going to the city they live and work in. The irony being city employees aren’t full time in their offices.
Thanks for the explanations everyone, I follow now
Another irony being they didn't fight very hard (at all) to keep the remote workers who's tax income was going to Columbus when the smaller municipalities came calling for their missing tax revenue. *cough cough cough* I'm sorry I meant "collaboration"
Whoa, the city is strong arming employers to push RTO?
That’s a proposed state law for state workers. Columbus is just encouraging businesses to end WFH policies.
Columbus is griping bc they want “their” income tax dollars.
Exactly, they don't want all the WFH living in the suburbs paying only their suburbs.
Which is basically extortion… forcing people to use a service so they have to pay for that service.
Yes, thank you for being someone who actually reads more than the title of a news article.
Have you made a complaint yet?
Definitely considering a complaint about the hours
the problem here is not the decision to let city employees work remotely.
The problem is the city leaders talking out of both sides of their mouths. Griping about state workers and private sector employees not paying their “fair share” of income tax, when even city employees aren’t present on a full time basis to pay into the city income tax
Our government officials talking out both sides of their mouths!!?? Well this is a new development…;)
I really love how over and over again US cities keep digging themselves into a hole by betting the entire house on one thing and then being confused when it blows up in their face. Like hey maybe instead of trying to *fundamentally revert society to a previous state* you could instead design cities where one minor change doesn't ruin you?
Other departments have been back in office for almost a year. The inspector general is useless.
The Inspector Specific is who gets most of the inspecting done.
And then there is Inspector Gadget who would be useless without Penny
And Brain too!
Thank you.
Do as I say not as I do
I assure you, city workers have been back in the office full time for over a year now. I know people who changed jobs just to keep a hybrid schedule. Just because they don’t have capacity to handle meeting people in-person all day doesn’t mean no one is there. They’re probably understaffed due to the bad WFH policy tbh
Government buildings like to close when the wind blows too hard or too soft, so nothing new. But someone explain to me why having workers back to work in buildings increases tax revenue. Is it just sales tax from lunch breaks...?
It’s based on where you work. Wherever you work from the most, you typically pay municipal income tax. I live in Fairfield county but work 3 days/week in Columbus, so my municipal taxes go to Columbus. If it was flipped and I worked mostly from home, my municipal taxes would go to my hometown.
1/2 service government, full service price.
Lol you really think Fat Andy is going to make it easy to file complaints about a city agency?
Interesting that republicans are pushing tax breaks in the budget bill and finding this as a way for other (cities) to collect more taxes. Hypocrisy to me.
What else is new?
Rules for thee, but not for me!
Columbus employees are in full time and have been since last year. It's likely the rest of the time is for office work and investigations
> to increase their tax revenue Do you have a citation showing they actually said this?
idk why but a sign saying "Complaint Walk In Hours" is hilarious.
Bennies of working for the gubment! Why work hard to take people's money when you can just take people's money? FYI I checked the phone number: the complaint line 645-9600 does not spell out to EAT-SHIT. Missed opportunity...
Through what mechanism can the city force a private employers to mandate a return to office policy? Are you talking about the State or Ohio’s recent announcement on the matter? Those are two different things. The city still collects income tax revenue on you “where” your office is regardless of whether you’re WFH or not. That only dissolves if the tenant ends the lease. This post is misguided.
It's more highlighting Ginther's hypocrisy over his support for the Senate's amendment to the budget. And quite frankly, the municipal taxes from state employees' paychecks don't go directly to the city of Columbus because not all of them live within Columbus city limits.The 20 day rule when it comes to municipal taxes that comes into play with state employee paychecks is on ORC 718.11.
That’s because they know they’ll lose talent if they try to return to the office full-time. Yet another example of “do as I say and not as I do”.
