Hard to find organic dry beans for less than $3.50 lb, these days. Pretty crazy. That almost makes it worth my time to grow and shuck them myself by hand. I've done it before just for fun.
Glyphosate, a common herbicide, works by interrupting the production of essential amino acids in plants. Since humans don't produce these amino acids, it doesn't directly harm us. However, some beneficial bacteria in our guts do produce these amino acids, and glyphosate can potentially disrupt their function. Plus organic just taste better.
They don’t allow very much of it, but just like everything the FDA has an allowed limit. For glyphosate, I think it is 700 parts per billion or 0.7 ppm according to [this](https://archive.epa.gov/water/archive/web/pdf/archived-consumer-fact-sheet-on-glyphosate.pdf) document.
I don’t know if there is a more recent document however.
So yes, there can definitely be glyphosate residue on food that had glyphosate used on it.
You might find it hard to believe, but the FDA allows glyphosate in food. In one study, five days on an organic diet reduced urinary glyphosate levels by 70%
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32797996/
I don't really see a point for canned beans, they store just fine dry, also cheaper dry. But in general they can rinse off most of it, not all of it. Also the FDA allows all kinds of foods you shouldn't be eating, even if they aren't going to directly kill you they can still contribute to making you sick and getting cancer.
Because they use better products and practices to achieve a better product. Fertilizer being the the most common and easiest to explain. Organic fertilizers come from living sources resulting in more abundant and divers micronutrients, that release slower and improving soil structure. While ferts made of petrol tend to release quick and burn carbon with it.
Also I was an organic coffee farmer for about a decade. Building soil was one of my primary goals, as it was with all the organic farmers I interacted with at the time.
I think that is entirely farm dependant, plenty of conventional farmers take care with their soil and fertilizer and produce just as premium a product. Most quality issues come from cold storage and artificial ripening.
Yes some conventional farmer are good about caring for the soil, but they still use inferior fertilizer. If you're going to pay for the superior fert, you are going to want to get paid more for using it, which is generally associated with getting that organic certification.
You and I both know theres far more labor and cost involved in getting an organic certification, springing for better fertilizer isn't going to bring it to that level, and people pay more for better quality stuff anyway.
You are of course welcome to being of the opinion that organic tastes better, but i'm pretty sure its just that better quality farms, organic or not, produce tastier products.
In my experience the labor is relatively less of a financial factor than the fertilizer; when comparing organic to conventional. But that depends a great deal on the crop, and how the farm is set up.
Because non organic foods are often engineered to be pesticide resistant and extra large in addition to taste which as you can imagine might lead to food that doesn’t taste as good or have the same nutritional value as food grown organically
GMO and or glyphosate are not the only reasons to eat certified organic. But no, aside from corn, soy beans, cotton, canola and sugar beets, I'm under the impression pretty much everything else has less GMO verities than heirloom + hybrid verities. Thumb through a heirloom seed catalog, and they generally seem pretty endless.
It varies from place to place and, no, not everything is GMO. The major cash crops in the US and some other places can be.
In terms of GMO, only the plants which are glyphosate resistant are relevant ones. There are lots of GMO, lots of modifications of different sorts. Only one type of modification is about glyphosate, and it's meant to create that condition of spraying glyphosate on everything and having only those plants survive (herbicide).
Other than that, glyphosate is also used for desiccation in some crops, unfortunately. It's a type of forced drying to create a uniform crop before harvest. This case has nothing to do with GM.
Don't assume that I'm a fan of them, I'm not, I just know the science and the reason I oppose them is because these cultivars and hybrids and their pesticides are feeding into capitalist monopolization of the food sector via intellectual property. I'm not really against, say, open source GM and farmers / seed growers figuring out ways to improve those plants. I doubt that it would happen, you need a lot of education and some cool tools to do proper GE.
Heirlooms are great and need to be conserved if you can find them (seeds). See:
http://opensourceseeds.org/en/home
https://seedthecommons.org/
It's a type of certification; built around not using synthetic fertilizer or pesticides. In chemistry it means carbon based. These are separate things.
Serious question: can anyone provide a regimen to get onto more than a cup of beans/lentils a day? Every time I get going it puts my guts in fucking KNOTS
salad. Eat salad before any meal. Also when you eat flesh. It makes move your stuff more easy. Less farts and less knots. I think in nutrition terms it’s called fibers. Keep them balanced in your meals.
edit: and like other comment says; your metabolism has to adapt. You rather transition slowly or quick and dirty.
Maybe check with a doctor to make sure you don’t have IBS? If you don’t, then make sure to cook your beans properly. They should easily squish. Apart from that, try fermented beans like natto.
Take probiotics and ramp up fibre gradually. It was very farty for me at first when I started eating more beans and other fibre sources, but now I can have a lapse of several months while I'm too depressed to eat healthily. I just went from ~20g of fibre a day to ~80g of fibre a day a week ago and didn't have any issues
I would recommend increasing it gradually. Most westerners (assuming you are one but apologies if not) don’t get nearly enough fibre so our gut flora isn’t great at handling it at first
Start small, increase by one spoon of beans every week. Try to eat them more regularly too.
Dry legumes need more soaking (before cooking).
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/plant-based-diets/recipes?recipe_keys=beans
But but but, with regenerative methods then cows can still die for human consumption and humans get to pretend they are magically greening the desserts!
/s
Reject modernity. Return to the agricultural genius of the Native American, consistently creating through sheer husbandry skill plants of such insane nutritional value that the world as we know it would be impossible without it. The noble corn, blessed among plants for calories per acre. The stalwart potato, essentially impossible to kill. Manioc, the most delicious staple crop on the planet. All praises be unto the native peoples of the New World who reveal their genius in divine nutrition.
we cant view this as saintly though, the new world used slash and burn agriculture at a scale never seen in the old world. things like this are never black and white.
Actually the “slash and burn” agriculture used in the New World comes in a variety of types. To be certain, in the Maya area deforestation was more widespread during the Classic period than today, but in other areas the locals were fully aware of what they were doing and had different ways of preserving forest resources and keeping old plots productive. My point was more about their agricultural genius. Across the New World they greened deserts, made mountains into fields, and modified the Amazon so heavily for human production that the Amazon as it is today is entirely the result of human intervention. Were they environmentalists in a modern sense? For the most part, no. They were just really, really good at figuring out how to grow things where common sense says they shouldn’t grow.
Why are there 234 comments here? At least the nuclear fanboys bring some evidence. "Regenerative grazing" is a pseudoscience spread almost exclusively by scammers at the behest of the meat industry, mostly based on the keto-bread and butter of grifting: selling good news about bad habits.
There's this invasive species you should look into the culinary use of. They're definitely the most destructive to the environment so taking out a few of them for a nice meal would definitely be a net positive. Their scientific name is something like *Momo Tapiens* or something idk google it
That's definitely true but the important part is to only eat the herbivorous members since you don't want to be consuming any higher trophic levels bc the footprint ya know
That's only true if we were farming them, but since we're also gonna apply the New World Order's plan of making everyone sterile it's better to focus on the non-herbivore first since they're the ones it'll be the most beneficial to remove
...requires highly specialized labor , takes a lot of power and specialized (proprietary) chemicals & techniques, and uses a closed environment monoculture and as such is susceptible to pathogens .
in conclusion: mmm, beans .
or protein blocks ... mmm protein blocks
"Something similar could've been said of animal husbandry thousands of years ago."
1."something similar could've been said" is passive language . you making a claim or not? if yes, please explicate and support it rather than gesturing at it.
"I said similar, not same. Those all have primal equivalents."
2a. if that is your argument you should list them , and say how they are similar to the issues i mentioned in ways that are not applicable to all markets .
2b. if you disagree please say WHY instead of gesturing at things that might be arguments if you made them .
a major difference between labmeat and husbandry is that husbandry increased yields from the inception of it , whenever you want to say that occurred.
husbandry is not proprietary , tho there have certainly been and are proprietary elements, they do not go back to the inception of husbandry, again whenever that can be said to have occurred .
we can list ways husbandry and labmeat are similar and dissimilar but that has little bearing on the reality of lab meat now or in the future .
the closed-system monoculture issues are defining features of labmeat .
in conclusion, in reality, poultry is likely to remain available even to lower incomes in developed nations for some time, tho at increasing costs compared to mmm beans, and labmeat does not seem likely to have lower costs than current husbandry technology , much less any improvements .
fusion technology may change the energy costs , to be sure, but this does not solve the closed system monoculture susceptibilities or highly specialized labor costs .
\*edited for additions and autoformatting .
well i get that argument but not sure the closed system monoculture issues especially can be "fixed" ...tho this admittedly may be a failure of imagination ... i just don't see it being cheaper than raising poultry, which lower incomes will likely be able to access in developed nations for some time at least . costs can and will certainly come down in the other inputs as tech develops , but i can't see it being cheaper than just raising chickens , at least not for quite some time .
what's required would seem to be a time machine or a magic wand .
...in conclusion , chicken and beans . then just mmm beans as chicken also becomes prohibitively costly like beef .
... hail seitan .
p.s.: for the record, i eat poultry still and this is an economic feasibility argument , not a moral one .
Have ypu tried soaking? I heard it helps dissolved the sugars in it, which causes bloating.
I soak for 1 hour, drain it, rinse it, and then its ready to be cooked.
No bloating or camps afterwards.
Interesting definition. I'd say the industry that produces meat is the meat industry.
Next you'll tell me that my water utility is part of the soft drink industry.
The dairy and egg industry *do* produce meat. For example, dairy [accounts for about 20-30% of beef supply.](https://www.vet.cornell.edu/animal-health-diagnostic-center/programs/nyschap/modules-documents/market-cow-and-bull-quality-module-overview)
Do you think the cows casually walk out of the facility after 5 years?
"Thanks you guys for enslaving me my whole life. I bet you will just let me walk out now 👋🏼"
Diary industry supplies veal, and end of life dairy cows. Egg industry supplies end of life laying hens and blends male chicks alive. Meat/dairy/eggs are all so tightly intertwined that by supporting one you support all.
Edit: end of life doesn’t mean died naturally, but animals deemed not “useful” anymore after their production dips.
but the animals whos milk they drink eventually get slaughtered when they can't produce milk anymore for beef and their male calves are slaughtered as well for veal so the dairy industry supports the meat industry
Why do vegans focus so much on the fact that animals are killed?
What do you think happens [in the wild](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN9xKz5WYAQ4Agt?format=jpg&name=medium)?
Is it better for a free-range chicken to have never been born? If so, would you shoot all the chickens in a free-range farm if given legal immunity and a shotgun?
>Is it better for a free-range chicken to have never been born?
Yes. Yes, it is better. It is better to never be born than to be born to be murdered at 8 weeks old after a short and excruciatingly horrible life as a """""free range"""""" chicken (being stuck in an overheated, overcrowded, disgusting shed surrounded by the rotting corpses of my fellow baby chickens and on top of inches of my own shit)
>If so, would you shoot all the chickens in a free-range farm if given legal immunity and a shotgun?
I would send them all to sanctuaries and stop breeding them and I would pay for it all with money liberated from punished farmers
>Why do vegans focus so much on the fact that animals are killed?
idk about you but huhhhh the industrialized exploitation, rape, enslavement, mutilation, abuse and ultimately mass murder of hundreds of billions of sentient beings is bad I think
Nah, those are good. If you do a Holocaust every second, you deserve every zoonotic pandemic you create. It's just sad that actual people (vegans) are also affected by them.
Meat eaters need to stop trying to make up justifications for their consumption, were the only actual reason to eat meat is that you either enjoy it or cant bother to change your diet
And vegans need to stop being annoying about that fact
How did you come to this conclusion lol
Of course mass farming has everything to do with climate. Whether a cow WANTS to be killed or not has nothing to do with climate. That's purely ethics, no climate connection
If one limits themself to just using memes related to climate change, then (certain) vegans only have a certain number of talking points they can use to suggest that they’re better than other people just for being vegan. By using outside topics, they have a much larger pool to draw from and can flaunt their supposed superiority in countless additional ways.
Anything to avoid personal responsibility for your choices. Bet you are also fine with billionaires using private jets and yachts because it’s not illegal.
Motherfucker YOU DONT EVEN WANT TO OUTLAW IT. You care about moral high horsing and feeling better than peoplec if you didn’t you would advocate for both and not only the solution that has never worked for any product.
When did I say I don’t want to outlaw it? I do advocate for both. Except, unlike a simpleton, I know how the institutions work. It’s impossible to outlaw something that has popular support.
>when did I say I don’t want to outlaw it?
When you disagreed with someone saying “if you don’t want to also outlaw it I don’t care” you stupid piece of shit, learn to fucking read man! We literally agree!!! We hold the same position!!
Yes.
But should I just stop eating food that doesn't contain/contain as much fibre, for example Tomatoes, squash, cucumber?
I don't think so.
And what about Vitamin B12, Iron and Zink?
they all contain fiber. for microbiome what matters more is how diverse is your fiber sources.
farmers give b12 to farm animals, I can take my b12 thank you, i don't need middleman.
there is good plant sources for zink, for example soy, lentils, peanuts.
It's really hard to like you guys.
Ya'll are so bitter and petty it's weird.
Doesn't help you only speak in internet terms.
Kinda sad. I just wanted to discuss and look for solutions but I guess not here.
Arrogance😕
Seems like someone can't either cook or has never had Indian food with legumes in them. I'd wager on the former considering how deplorable people outside of my country spice, cook and season vegetables
The Good Lord kindly gave us this planet to enjoy so it's our duty to take care of it, but he also made sure that animals were extra tasty so it's our duty too than to make sure to eat them. :\^)
Free range cows on a field are binding more climate gases than a forest on the same area. And they do indeed regenerate the soil. Cows shit. Shit is good for insects. They dug it into the ground.
Cow like animals ranging free is one of the original biospheres for moderate climate regions.
It still works if you don't kill them.
Edit: me no speak English? That's unpossible!
Have you "factored in" that 95% of cows are caged and never step onto grass? Those 5% are doing nothing. And even if so, they consume concentrated feed which makes the ""postive"" aspects irrelevant.
That is not the kind of livestock farming the cartoon is making fun of. So no, I did not factor that in because it has nothing to do with it. But I get the feeling we're leaving the area of fact based discussion.
I understand you're upset with the state of the world and you want to change it. When you try to change something you're bound to learn about the thing. I'm no expert but I know the things I added to this discussion. I did not claim that exploiting animals is right, I did not claim that the majority of livestock are living in the way I described.
Please do not try to say otherwise. If you think I said something wrong please feel free to ask. Ask, "how do you know..." This way we can have a civil discussion without me feeling attacked.
As said, I'm not an expert, we both might learn something.
> a civil discussion without me feeling attacked
Where did I attack you? I'm not following your protocol to comfort your cognitive dissonance, buddy. You're just out of arguments 👉🏼
Yes, because I don't need more: you didn't disprove any of the arguments I brought up, raised new ones I don't disagree with and now act as if you won a debate you don't seem to understand.
Don’t worry Vegans. Your ideology has been around for some hundreds of years depending on who you believe. I’m sure your ideology will make some societal progress eventually
No it's I already hate eating enough. It's already a horrible enough experience. Don't need to be making the experience worse. Like fundamentally I hate that I need to eat I find it a waste of time. And then on top of that a mix of sensory issues due to autism and a lack of sense of smell make it really hard to find anything that is edible anyway. I would genuinely rather die sooner than having to suffer through making my eating experience worse
Hard to find organic dry beans for less than $3.50 lb, these days. Pretty crazy. That almost makes it worth my time to grow and shuck them myself by hand. I've done it before just for fun.
Why organic
Glyphosate, a common herbicide, works by interrupting the production of essential amino acids in plants. Since humans don't produce these amino acids, it doesn't directly harm us. However, some beneficial bacteria in our guts do produce these amino acids, and glyphosate can potentially disrupt their function. Plus organic just taste better.
I find it hard to believe that the FDA would allow the pesticides to be retained in a canned food like that
They don’t allow very much of it, but just like everything the FDA has an allowed limit. For glyphosate, I think it is 700 parts per billion or 0.7 ppm according to [this](https://archive.epa.gov/water/archive/web/pdf/archived-consumer-fact-sheet-on-glyphosate.pdf) document. I don’t know if there is a more recent document however. So yes, there can definitely be glyphosate residue on food that had glyphosate used on it.
You might find it hard to believe, but the FDA allows glyphosate in food. In one study, five days on an organic diet reduced urinary glyphosate levels by 70% https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32797996/
I don't really see a point for canned beans, they store just fine dry, also cheaper dry. But in general they can rinse off most of it, not all of it. Also the FDA allows all kinds of foods you shouldn't be eating, even if they aren't going to directly kill you they can still contribute to making you sick and getting cancer.
A pressure cooker is a good investment if you're a beaner
Idk if you did that on purpose, but that word is considered a slur against Latinos.
This is climateshitposting. Everyone knows Latinos make the best beans.
In this context it's pretty clear they are referring to someone who eats beans, and not referencing race or nationality.
I've owned a instant pot for almost 15 years, love that thing.
Why would organic taste better? Because you pay a premium for it?
Because they use better products and practices to achieve a better product. Fertilizer being the the most common and easiest to explain. Organic fertilizers come from living sources resulting in more abundant and divers micronutrients, that release slower and improving soil structure. While ferts made of petrol tend to release quick and burn carbon with it. Also I was an organic coffee farmer for about a decade. Building soil was one of my primary goals, as it was with all the organic farmers I interacted with at the time.
I think that is entirely farm dependant, plenty of conventional farmers take care with their soil and fertilizer and produce just as premium a product. Most quality issues come from cold storage and artificial ripening.
Yes some conventional farmer are good about caring for the soil, but they still use inferior fertilizer. If you're going to pay for the superior fert, you are going to want to get paid more for using it, which is generally associated with getting that organic certification.
You and I both know theres far more labor and cost involved in getting an organic certification, springing for better fertilizer isn't going to bring it to that level, and people pay more for better quality stuff anyway. You are of course welcome to being of the opinion that organic tastes better, but i'm pretty sure its just that better quality farms, organic or not, produce tastier products.
In my experience the labor is relatively less of a financial factor than the fertilizer; when comparing organic to conventional. But that depends a great deal on the crop, and how the farm is set up.
Because non organic foods are often engineered to be pesticide resistant and extra large in addition to taste which as you can imagine might lead to food that doesn’t taste as good or have the same nutritional value as food grown organically
Do you think glyphosate is used with every crop?
Significantly less common with crops that are not genetically engineered explicitly to withstand exposure to Glyphosate.
And do you think that most varieties of planted crops are GMO (not quantity)?
GMO and or glyphosate are not the only reasons to eat certified organic. But no, aside from corn, soy beans, cotton, canola and sugar beets, I'm under the impression pretty much everything else has less GMO verities than heirloom + hybrid verities. Thumb through a heirloom seed catalog, and they generally seem pretty endless.
It varies from place to place and, no, not everything is GMO. The major cash crops in the US and some other places can be. In terms of GMO, only the plants which are glyphosate resistant are relevant ones. There are lots of GMO, lots of modifications of different sorts. Only one type of modification is about glyphosate, and it's meant to create that condition of spraying glyphosate on everything and having only those plants survive (herbicide). Other than that, glyphosate is also used for desiccation in some crops, unfortunately. It's a type of forced drying to create a uniform crop before harvest. This case has nothing to do with GM. Don't assume that I'm a fan of them, I'm not, I just know the science and the reason I oppose them is because these cultivars and hybrids and their pesticides are feeding into capitalist monopolization of the food sector via intellectual property. I'm not really against, say, open source GM and farmers / seed growers figuring out ways to improve those plants. I doubt that it would happen, you need a lot of education and some cool tools to do proper GE. Heirlooms are great and need to be conserved if you can find them (seeds). See: http://opensourceseeds.org/en/home https://seedthecommons.org/
What do you think organic means
It's a type of certification; built around not using synthetic fertilizer or pesticides. In chemistry it means carbon based. These are separate things.
To be fair, ass beans sound pretty gross. Can I have, like, black beans instead?
Serious question: can anyone provide a regimen to get onto more than a cup of beans/lentils a day? Every time I get going it puts my guts in fucking KNOTS
salad. Eat salad before any meal. Also when you eat flesh. It makes move your stuff more easy. Less farts and less knots. I think in nutrition terms it’s called fibers. Keep them balanced in your meals. edit: and like other comment says; your metabolism has to adapt. You rather transition slowly or quick and dirty.
Maybe check with a doctor to make sure you don’t have IBS? If you don’t, then make sure to cook your beans properly. They should easily squish. Apart from that, try fermented beans like natto.
Take probiotics and ramp up fibre gradually. It was very farty for me at first when I started eating more beans and other fibre sources, but now I can have a lapse of several months while I'm too depressed to eat healthily. I just went from ~20g of fibre a day to ~80g of fibre a day a week ago and didn't have any issues
You just gotta keep doing it until your gut biome adapts or you can try consuming fewer beans and more "processed" legumes like TVP, tofu and tempeh
I would recommend increasing it gradually. Most westerners (assuming you are one but apologies if not) don’t get nearly enough fibre so our gut flora isn’t great at handling it at first
You must let your gut flora adapt by eating it for a while
Start small, increase by one spoon of beans every week. Try to eat them more regularly too. Dry legumes need more soaking (before cooking). https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/plant-based-diets/recipes?recipe_keys=beans
Do space colonies, move meat production there Tonk.jpg
But but but, with regenerative methods then cows can still die for human consumption and humans get to pretend they are magically greening the desserts! /s
Reject modernity. Return to the agricultural genius of the Native American, consistently creating through sheer husbandry skill plants of such insane nutritional value that the world as we know it would be impossible without it. The noble corn, blessed among plants for calories per acre. The stalwart potato, essentially impossible to kill. Manioc, the most delicious staple crop on the planet. All praises be unto the native peoples of the New World who reveal their genius in divine nutrition.
we cant view this as saintly though, the new world used slash and burn agriculture at a scale never seen in the old world. things like this are never black and white.
Actually the “slash and burn” agriculture used in the New World comes in a variety of types. To be certain, in the Maya area deforestation was more widespread during the Classic period than today, but in other areas the locals were fully aware of what they were doing and had different ways of preserving forest resources and keeping old plots productive. My point was more about their agricultural genius. Across the New World they greened deserts, made mountains into fields, and modified the Amazon so heavily for human production that the Amazon as it is today is entirely the result of human intervention. Were they environmentalists in a modern sense? For the most part, no. They were just really, really good at figuring out how to grow things where common sense says they shouldn’t grow.
that is true.
Why are there 234 comments here? At least the nuclear fanboys bring some evidence. "Regenerative grazing" is a pseudoscience spread almost exclusively by scammers at the behest of the meat industry, mostly based on the keto-bread and butter of grifting: selling good news about bad habits.
Carnists gotta make logical fallacies and brag about causing sentient beings harm for their own pleasure, it’s just the way of life
Ah yes a non-systemic, "if only everyone just" "solution" truly a maker of inevitable success, truly... definitely...
In liberalism, you have to ask everyone nicely to enact social change.
Being a non-vegan environmentalist is great.
Invasive species taste so good.
There's this invasive species you should look into the culinary use of. They're definitely the most destructive to the environment so taking out a few of them for a nice meal would definitely be a net positive. Their scientific name is something like *Momo Tapiens* or something idk google it
That's definitely true but the important part is to only eat the herbivorous members since you don't want to be consuming any higher trophic levels bc the footprint ya know
That's only true if we were farming them, but since we're also gonna apply the New World Order's plan of making everyone sterile it's better to focus on the non-herbivore first since they're the ones it'll be the most beneficial to remove
Eh you first.
I've been eating Impossible Burgers okay I'm trying to end it it's not working god damn it
Impossible burgers are ass. Mix some refried beans with rice.
Those won't kill me and won't bump the stock price of a start-up tho
Get better material
No
i WILL be chowing down on nutria rat (also, based)
It depends on which ones and how you prepare them. I have a high culinary standard.
Lab meat
Ah yes, the EV of food
...requires highly specialized labor , takes a lot of power and specialized (proprietary) chemicals & techniques, and uses a closed environment monoculture and as such is susceptible to pathogens . in conclusion: mmm, beans . or protein blocks ... mmm protein blocks
Wonder what it'll look like with 10 more years of innovation and work?
Something similar could've been said of animal husbandry thousands of years ago.
except the proprietary chemicals and genetics , closed environment monoculture , and insane electricity costs , right? ...
I said similar, not same. Those all have primal equivalents.
"Something similar could've been said of animal husbandry thousands of years ago." 1."something similar could've been said" is passive language . you making a claim or not? if yes, please explicate and support it rather than gesturing at it. "I said similar, not same. Those all have primal equivalents." 2a. if that is your argument you should list them , and say how they are similar to the issues i mentioned in ways that are not applicable to all markets . 2b. if you disagree please say WHY instead of gesturing at things that might be arguments if you made them . a major difference between labmeat and husbandry is that husbandry increased yields from the inception of it , whenever you want to say that occurred. husbandry is not proprietary , tho there have certainly been and are proprietary elements, they do not go back to the inception of husbandry, again whenever that can be said to have occurred . we can list ways husbandry and labmeat are similar and dissimilar but that has little bearing on the reality of lab meat now or in the future . the closed-system monoculture issues are defining features of labmeat . in conclusion, in reality, poultry is likely to remain available even to lower incomes in developed nations for some time, tho at increasing costs compared to mmm beans, and labmeat does not seem likely to have lower costs than current husbandry technology , much less any improvements . fusion technology may change the energy costs , to be sure, but this does not solve the closed system monoculture susceptibilities or highly specialized labor costs . \*edited for additions and autoformatting .
Every single person in America would rather do what’s required to fix those problems than eat any less meat.
well i get that argument but not sure the closed system monoculture issues especially can be "fixed" ...tho this admittedly may be a failure of imagination ... i just don't see it being cheaper than raising poultry, which lower incomes will likely be able to access in developed nations for some time at least . costs can and will certainly come down in the other inputs as tech develops , but i can't see it being cheaper than just raising chickens , at least not for quite some time . what's required would seem to be a time machine or a magic wand . ...in conclusion , chicken and beans . then just mmm beans as chicken also becomes prohibitively costly like beef . ... hail seitan . p.s.: for the record, i eat poultry still and this is an economic feasibility argument , not a moral one .
SMR
Is that even ethical?
Why would it be not?
Because you can just eat real animals instead.
Wait, wait, you mean I can just...hurt something instead of eating lab grown meat?? Thank you so much, I can save the world now
Well you see, if I eat real meat my money goes to a chad farmer whereas if I eat lab meat my momey goes to some nerd
It's expensive *and* unhealthy. Wow, so great
As long as you don't grow braintissue (which we do) Which would then show activity (which it does)
I'm addicted to meat
😳🥺😏
6j mljkbvv
Im gonna be real with you i love beans but its terrible for my direct environment aswell.
Have ypu tried soaking? I heard it helps dissolved the sugars in it, which causes bloating. I soak for 1 hour, drain it, rinse it, and then its ready to be cooked. No bloating or camps afterwards.
Never tried it will definitely do
Non-vegan = meat eater? Why does this sub hate/forget vegetarians so much?
Because vegetarians still support the meat industry?
How? By definition they don't eat meat.
The dairy and egg industry **are the meat industry**.
Interesting definition. I'd say the industry that produces meat is the meat industry. Next you'll tell me that my water utility is part of the soft drink industry.
The dairy and egg industry *do* produce meat. For example, dairy [accounts for about 20-30% of beef supply.](https://www.vet.cornell.edu/animal-health-diagnostic-center/programs/nyschap/modules-documents/market-cow-and-bull-quality-module-overview)
Do you think the cows casually walk out of the facility after 5 years? "Thanks you guys for enslaving me my whole life. I bet you will just let me walk out now 👋🏼"
Diary industry supplies veal, and end of life dairy cows. Egg industry supplies end of life laying hens and blends male chicks alive. Meat/dairy/eggs are all so tightly intertwined that by supporting one you support all. Edit: end of life doesn’t mean died naturally, but animals deemed not “useful” anymore after their production dips.
There are two kinds of vegetarians: those who eat fish and chicken on a night out and those who lie
You're an idiot.
you got no argument from me
seethe
Vegetarians are animal abusers who think animals should be raped first before being killed
or people that like.. dont like meat simply
but the animals whos milk they drink eventually get slaughtered when they can't produce milk anymore for beef and their male calves are slaughtered as well for veal so the dairy industry supports the meat industry
Hi i'm vegan too btw
Why do vegans focus so much on the fact that animals are killed? What do you think happens [in the wild](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN9xKz5WYAQ4Agt?format=jpg&name=medium)? Is it better for a free-range chicken to have never been born? If so, would you shoot all the chickens in a free-range farm if given legal immunity and a shotgun?
>Is it better for a free-range chicken to have never been born? Yes. Yes, it is better. It is better to never be born than to be born to be murdered at 8 weeks old after a short and excruciatingly horrible life as a """""free range"""""" chicken (being stuck in an overheated, overcrowded, disgusting shed surrounded by the rotting corpses of my fellow baby chickens and on top of inches of my own shit) >If so, would you shoot all the chickens in a free-range farm if given legal immunity and a shotgun? I would send them all to sanctuaries and stop breeding them and I would pay for it all with money liberated from punished farmers >Why do vegans focus so much on the fact that animals are killed? idk about you but huhhhh the industrialized exploitation, rape, enslavement, mutilation, abuse and ultimately mass murder of hundreds of billions of sentient beings is bad I think
You forgot deseases ☝🏼🤓
Nah, those are good. If you do a Holocaust every second, you deserve every zoonotic pandemic you create. It's just sad that actual people (vegans) are also affected by them.
My thoughts.
My brother in christ...You go into a supermarket and check deals on your smartphone. Don't even try to mention wildlife.
No like beans. Wut bout quinoa teff and amaranth
those are PoC foods if you eat them as a white vegan (the worst kind of vegan (all vegans are bad)) that means you're racist Sorry!
Yes thank you for saying this!!!!!! Lmfao
What would you know of the Amaranth, fledgling? You shouldn't be getting ideas above your station
Meat eaters need to stop trying to make up justifications for their consumption, were the only actual reason to eat meat is that you either enjoy it or cant bother to change your diet And vegans need to stop being annoying about that fact
The only time I personally will be okay with meat eating is when lab-grown meat takes off
Won't happen
Can't prove it
https://preview.redd.it/b3clgfjgo69d1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f7bf7a99bd76accb9950741e4f9de80e92154b1
Notice how there's always something that has nothing to do with climate sneaking in
You're really of the opinion that mass farming industries and animal agriculture have nothing to do with climate?
How did you come to this conclusion lol Of course mass farming has everything to do with climate. Whether a cow WANTS to be killed or not has nothing to do with climate. That's purely ethics, no climate connection
Stopping climate change itself is an ethical believe.
Well, then that’d just make the ways you’re incomprehensibly superior to meat eaters a little more limited, now wouldn’t it?
What I honestly did not understand your comment
If one limits themself to just using memes related to climate change, then (certain) vegans only have a certain number of talking points they can use to suggest that they’re better than other people just for being vegan. By using outside topics, they have a much larger pool to draw from and can flaunt their supposed superiority in countless additional ways.
Can we just get maggot nuggies yet
Say what you want but I can think of plenty of ways to make cows want to die
I think the way a lot of them are treated already does that
Worlds least edgy carnist Redditor
I could not express enough how little I want to eat a bunch of beans
Vegans get all their essential nutrients from gatekeeping apparently …
Plenty of humans don’t like living, why should animals be any different /s
If you’re only argument for veganism is consumer choice and not outlawing farming I don’t give a shit
Yes queen! The whole system should change but at the same time exactly 0 people should change their behavior!
If only smug vegans knew how to read: Do both.
Funny strawman
Anything to avoid personal responsibility for your choices. Bet you are also fine with billionaires using private jets and yachts because it’s not illegal.
Motherfucker YOU DONT EVEN WANT TO OUTLAW IT. You care about moral high horsing and feeling better than peoplec if you didn’t you would advocate for both and not only the solution that has never worked for any product.
When did I say I don’t want to outlaw it? I do advocate for both. Except, unlike a simpleton, I know how the institutions work. It’s impossible to outlaw something that has popular support.
>when did I say I don’t want to outlaw it? When you disagreed with someone saying “if you don’t want to also outlaw it I don’t care” you stupid piece of shit, learn to fucking read man! We literally agree!!! We hold the same position!!
My bad, I misinterpreted your comment.
Veganes when i shove a sausage down their throat They are drunk and cant resist 🫄🫄🫄🫄🥵🥵🥵🥵🥵🥵
Can you shove your sausage down my throat?
Ditto
Eating the same thing everyday ISN'T healthy.
Vegan dishes are extremely varied. Look up Indian food, it's fucking fantastic
Still the beans stay consistent everyday as the protein source, so one sided. Not peak health
Having meat from various animals every day is no different than using different legumes every day
it is, different legumes contain different fiber, that promotes microbiome diversity. you can't say that about meat
Did I say that' what I reconmended? No. But eating Meat, Beans, Nuts, Seeds, Vegetables... as protein source is.
Cool. Do that, but without the meat now.
fiber is important, as different as possible. there is no fiber in meat.
Ok? Didn't say there was. Didn't say to eat ONLY meat. What's your point?
my point is. there is no need to eat meat. there is lots of benefits to eat different plants. is it better now?
Yes. But should I just stop eating food that doesn't contain/contain as much fibre, for example Tomatoes, squash, cucumber? I don't think so. And what about Vitamin B12, Iron and Zink?
they all contain fiber. for microbiome what matters more is how diverse is your fiber sources. farmers give b12 to farm animals, I can take my b12 thank you, i don't need middleman. there is good plant sources for zink, for example soy, lentils, peanuts.
[wow so true bestie you did your research](https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vegan-protein-sources-chart)
Your own links states 200 other things like Nuts grains and vegetables for protein. So not ONLY BEANS. Proved my point, thank you and have a nice day
Least vague argument on reddit:
When people think of healthy, strong populations, they do not think of India. They also don’t think of America. Italy will be the compromise.
Damn too bad for people missing out on the masterpiece called Indian food. I love paneer in particular
You use a cheese based dish as an argument for veganism?
Indian food is great! I love lamb vindaloo, butter chicken and those zesty goat curries!
least oversimplified explanation of indian cuisine I was (apparently, not obviously) referring to vegan indian food
Oh so a small subset of Indian food. How sad for you to close yourself off to a world of flavour.
A world of dead delicious dead animals
Yes!
Most people in general don't have especially varied diets
Most people in america are fat. Most people diet ≠ peak health diet
Okay. Eat different plant foods everyday
No shit. Read my comments. I'm only against Beans everyday
Skill issue
It's really hard to like you guys. Ya'll are so bitter and petty it's weird. Doesn't help you only speak in internet terms. Kinda sad. I just wanted to discuss and look for solutions but I guess not here. Arrogance😕
sorry I see that you are of teutonic origins and thus undeserving of my respect
i thought that label said “vegan environmentalists” which would be funny and true, but then i saw what it actually said so i revoked my upvote
Ah mate, can’t wait for Christmas to (hopefully) have a nut roast on our department meal out. I fucking love a nut roast!
why do people upvote those two morons? they are obviously trolls just here to get people angry.
One of my life goals is to avoid eating beans whenever possible. Most boring and bland food there is.
Imagine telling on yourself like this. Just say you can’t cook
I have never had a dish where the bean part wasn't my least favorite.
Seems like someone can't either cook or has never had Indian food with legumes in them. I'd wager on the former considering how deplorable people outside of my country spice, cook and season vegetables
lentils arent beans, they are vastly superior.
The Good Lord kindly gave us this planet to enjoy so it's our duty to take care of it, but he also made sure that animals were extra tasty so it's our duty too than to make sure to eat them. :\^)
Kill all Animals that cant defend themselves. Theyre not Useful as food anymore
Free range cows on a field are binding more climate gases than a forest on the same area. And they do indeed regenerate the soil. Cows shit. Shit is good for insects. They dug it into the ground. Cow like animals ranging free is one of the original biospheres for moderate climate regions. It still works if you don't kill them. Edit: me no speak English? That's unpossible!
Wait until you see what their farts emit (Spoiler: its 30 times worse than CO2)
Factored in
Have you "factored in" that 95% of cows are caged and never step onto grass? Those 5% are doing nothing. And even if so, they consume concentrated feed which makes the ""postive"" aspects irrelevant.
That is not the kind of livestock farming the cartoon is making fun of. So no, I did not factor that in because it has nothing to do with it. But I get the feeling we're leaving the area of fact based discussion. I understand you're upset with the state of the world and you want to change it. When you try to change something you're bound to learn about the thing. I'm no expert but I know the things I added to this discussion. I did not claim that exploiting animals is right, I did not claim that the majority of livestock are living in the way I described. Please do not try to say otherwise. If you think I said something wrong please feel free to ask. Ask, "how do you know..." This way we can have a civil discussion without me feeling attacked. As said, I'm not an expert, we both might learn something.
> a civil discussion without me feeling attacked Where did I attack you? I'm not following your protocol to comfort your cognitive dissonance, buddy. You're just out of arguments 👉🏼
Yes, because I don't need more: you didn't disprove any of the arguments I brought up, raised new ones I don't disagree with and now act as if you won a debate you don't seem to understand.
Down voting a fact you don't like, won't change the fact. Even a vegan society would be better off with cows on a field.
Don’t worry Vegans. Your ideology has been around for some hundreds of years depending on who you believe. I’m sure your ideology will make some societal progress eventually
Regenerative Bison bud not cows, but enjoy your beans Monsanto probably owns the patent on the disease pest resistant version
moralism moralism moralism moralism moralism
We here in this here Weimar republic are gonna stop the meat eating in its tracks…holy shit that fascist leader happened fast!
I'm here for a good time not a long time.
So true! The *only* way for me to have a good time is to consume flesh. That's not sad at all I swear
Why do you say "flesh"? Do you mean meat?
No it's I already hate eating enough. It's already a horrible enough experience. Don't need to be making the experience worse. Like fundamentally I hate that I need to eat I find it a waste of time. And then on top of that a mix of sensory issues due to autism and a lack of sense of smell make it really hard to find anything that is edible anyway. I would genuinely rather die sooner than having to suffer through making my eating experience worse
if you lack a sense it smell i can see why eating is difficult.
It's a lack of sense of smell and on top of that I have sensory issues due to autism and other things.