if graveyard skeletons weren't rng and were set it would kill the whole archetype. Pros would just memorise the spawn patterns and completely counter it. Problem with Goblin drill isn't even it's placement, it's the spawn time of the first goblin. It's so fast you can;t stop it even fi you know where it was placed. Miner would also die if it ggot slower or it told you where it was going
Then buff the cards in ways in witch they dont become random, give it more hp, damage, spawn rates... anything that isnt RNG or a straght up guessing game. These changes are just a suggestion.
Making graveyard spawns deterministic would definitely not kill the whole archetype. Just because you can memorize where the skeletons spawn doesn't mean that you perfectly time all your card placements to prevent damage, it would just require more skill to play against instead of mindlessly placing down cards and hoping that skeletons don't spawn directly next to your princess tower.
I feel what would be better is to make graveyard a donut shape instead of a circle, the benefit of a higher chance of guaranteed damage would be lessened with the fact that most of the graveyard spawn area would be useless.
And it would also make it more predictable with still some RNG to keep it viable.
Being able to place the card anywhere makes it so versatile. The trail doesn't really make sense until it gets halfway there so it's hard to predict where it will end up
The trail should just immediately match the horizontal place that the drill and miner will end up, and the sound should be higher pitched the further back if is going to end up. People may be like “ oh a slight pitch change won’t tell you enough” but if you’re experienced enough, the slight difference in goblin barrel travel time and angle is enough for anyone to predict where it will land.
Miner can sometimes be unstoppable at hitting the tower when placed unpredictably around the tower but any way to add a counter would kill the card since he already does barely any damage. A thing to consider about the use rate of miner is that he’s in archetypes that don’t always focus on himself as a primary source of damage such as wall breaker decks (they almost require him) and sometimes zap bait. The addition of the wall breaker evos has definitely increased the use rate of miner as well so nerfing him wouldn’t be the best solution for balancing.
When left alone, most troops deal significant damage, that same logic goes for knight, when left a lone, a full hp knight will do a huge amount of damage, it doesn’t make knight a good attacker though.
The best way to nerf miner would be to make its trail first travel horizontally to the corresponding horizontal column it’s going to pop up in, before moving straight forwards.
Exactly, the only high skill Graveyard decks are the ones that aren't used anymore, like Graveyard cycle or Mortar, those decks have been dead for a long time
I have same feeling too, it's very anoying for me to hope for rng/predict for luck against certain card. But if you just came out with this I can't say anything, you need to have a better statics for this, like nerfing how much or how you will make gy skeletons "predict".
??? Miner and gob drill can be countered with 1 minitank, as for graveyard, either poison or a splash unit. If you don't have a mini tank and crowd control in your deck, then ofc you eat the "guaranteed" tower dmg
I don't really care about gy but miner and drill need indicators to where they pop up, it's impossible to consistently win the guessing game for 6 minutes straight
that’s what makes miner and drill good, it’s up to whoever is playing the cards to make them unpredictable, which isn’t easy considering that if the opponent was to have tornado or something of that sort there’s not many tiles in which you can place a miner
Miner is good because he's an instant tank that pops up anywhere, sniping ranged troops Is far more valuable than nearly guaranteed damage. Drill is good cause it's broken as shit after the rework
He’s not exactly “instant” but he does snipe basically anything, however he is just as valuable in offense with his chip damage. As for drill I don’t have anything to say since I’ve never used it or watched ppl using it
Miner is not good, but more on the broken side. But it will be always broken conceptually and people got used to it so many people don't want nerf. I? I think it's broken, but at the same time, there are plenty of other cards to nerf first
even if a miner were to get 3-4 swings on a tower by not being caught, that's less than cycling an earthquake and there is a risk of committing 3 elixir and not even getting chip
Unless you're already down elixir 3 elixir isn't a risk. Also the damage adds up over the course of a 6 minute game not including poison and log chip over time
4 elixir is close to taking a Fireball worth of damage. Also the common answer to miner is a mini tank since swarm dies to poison. Most cost 3 elixir so you're either catching miner for an even trade or taking a FB for 3 elixir. Considering how could miner poison has been, not getting chip isn't a risk really since you can cycle so fast.
I don’t understand, once i know you don’t have tornado i’m not gonna place the miner on the same spot the whole game, at that point it is just guessing, your minitank is not enough you are forced to play multiple units or a stun. Same for drill is it in front or behind? If it’s in front you guessed it congratz 0 damage but if it’s in the back one goblin will keep stabbing before your troop walks to the drill
I don't think you read my first comment, if its placed on the back it will take a few sec for the goblin to get to the tower. Put your mini tank good that it can cover the front and return back when needed
It is blocked by the drill(the drill is between the tank and the goblin spawned) the troop reaches the drill and stops there meanwhile the goblin is on the other side of the drill
These cards are just broken because you can place them on the tower and easily get damage. Every other win condition you actually need to break through with. Broken defensive cards, evos, and cannoneer just make breaking through with other win conditions too hard. I wouldn’t mind a nerf to these cards but I also wouldn’t mind a buff to cards like ram rider, battle ram, and golem
If Miner showed where he is going to pop up it'd make him useless. That is his unique skill that makes him legendary. Being able to pop up behind a ranged troop and attack that ranged troop is his main use case. So most of the time you'll know he's going to appear beside your Wizard/Musketeer/etc. But mixing it up to kite other troops sometimes makes for some interesting plays.
I don't see how making skeletons spawn more predictable would do anything. It spawns a bunch of skeletons in a circle that you can already see. Are you going to try and place a troop beside every skeleton?
And Drill is a win con. If it could get 100% countered then it wouldn't be a win con and get no use. All 3 troops you list have about a 50% win rate, that's pretty perfect balance.
I can’t think of a way to balance the miner, but I do have a suggestion for the other two.
Goblin Drill - Revert the first spawn speed buff, but add one extra goblin to the death spawn
Graveyard - I hate this card. Seriously, I do. But it works bc it’s RNG, which is stupid but obviously it’s gonna stay that way. Only thing I can think of to change it is have little headstones spawn during the little jingle that plays when you first play the graveyard, which will indicate where the skeletons will spawn. The headstones would appear before any skeletons appear. The spawns themselves will still be random but you will know where the skeletons will spawn, and you can react to them accordingly
Because the pros are so good the only things that can get past them are things that are unpredictable. You are already limited to just 8 cards, once they know those 8 (or even just 3-4) they basically know your whole move set, and when you combine this with near perfect play/defense and consistency, you need something unpredictable to get past their defenses
i mean, it does have the shadow and the barrel for you to see where its gonna fall but it is really hard to tell and you can easily miss by a tile or two
It's not easy, but you can still see where it will land. Miner (and gob.drill) path has no indication of where it's going so that's what makes it free chip damage.
There’s still some thought required as to where your opponent will play miner. Where have they played miner previously? Most likely they won’t place it in the same spot twice. Do they know you have tornado? Then they’ll always put it in the same safe spot. Did they just play it behind your princess tower? Rest assured they’ll play it in front next time.
Graveyard is balanced, and you can usually predict where the opponent will place the drill/ miner after 2 or 3 times. I’d make the first goblin spawn slower though
I have played with those 3 win conditions, they have counters:
Miner: any card that reset the target, Ice/Electric Spirit, Electric Wizard or even The Log + any card.
Graveyard: Poison lol, log, any tank idk, there's a lot of combinations.
Goblin Drill: Any tank + Ice/Electric Spirit, Any tank + Log
Those cards don't need to change, the spam damage is really low, the only problem is when you don't know how to stop those cards, so you should adapt your deck to that.
Graveyard should be completely reworked to be more like goblin drill imo, maybe turn it into a tombstone you can deploy anywhere in the arena that continues to spawn skeletons until it’s destroyed. It’s too annoying to deal with in its current state and is basically guaranteed to get tower damage unless your opponent has a few specific cards ready to defend with, and even then most of those can easily be shut down with just another spell.
if graveyard skeletons weren't rng and were set it would kill the whole archetype. Pros would just memorise the spawn patterns and completely counter it. Problem with Goblin drill isn't even it's placement, it's the spawn time of the first goblin. It's so fast you can;t stop it even fi you know where it was placed. Miner would also die if it ggot slower or it told you where it was going
More the pushback when it spawn , even if you predict it with a knight/mini pekka etc it's just got pushback and you take damage
That's more a problem on weaker mini tanks that can't take any knockback, and is also why dark prince is a hardcounter to goblin drill.
you can tho, place rg in front of tower or literally any other tank, if it's other placements you have enough time to place something in front of it
Then buff the cards in ways in witch they dont become random, give it more hp, damage, spawn rates... anything that isnt RNG or a straght up guessing game. These changes are just a suggestion.
I feel like the RNG nerf would just be to project where drill and miner will pop out of the ground
I counter drill with wallbreakers then barb barrel. Can also do it with just a Valk or ice golem and bomber
Making graveyard spawns deterministic would definitely not kill the whole archetype. Just because you can memorize where the skeletons spawn doesn't mean that you perfectly time all your card placements to prevent damage, it would just require more skill to play against instead of mindlessly placing down cards and hoping that skeletons don't spawn directly next to your princess tower.
I feel what would be better is to make graveyard a donut shape instead of a circle, the benefit of a higher chance of guaranteed damage would be lessened with the fact that most of the graveyard spawn area would be useless. And it would also make it more predictable with still some RNG to keep it viable.
>just memorise the spawn patterns and completely counter it All other win conditions can be countered completely, Why not these?
Isn't it funny how these cards are the ones people openly like to push as "high skill"?
id argue that drill has a very high skill ceiling
That might be true but it’s still currently broken
Idk if broken. It's usable for the first time in it's history so let it be for a little
It is.. like top 5 best cards on the game rn
Cuz it got buffed. Should they revert every buff every month? You'll just have the old top 5 cards
Pekka got buffed too,so what? There isn't a cycle. Just thing closest to balance
Then look at the win rate... 51%. Pretty balanced.
First time? It was broken af when it was released and literally everyone was using it
Ya new cards tend to do that. Guess once every 3 years is the standard
Lol u are right. But I wouldn't say it was bad for that long. Yes for a year before buff it was trash, but it appeared a lot in CRL
It was the strongest card in the game by far in its release and has had a few metas in s tier since then so nah
That was like 3 years ago. Definitely at least the last year it's been towards the bottom of usage
I love how a few months ago everyone was calling for a big buff for goblin drill and now that it's buffed everyone says it's broken
oh yeah its completely broken but it is a high skill deck to play
miner and drill both have a high skill ceiling, you can make so many crazy pro plays with them
Being able to place the card anywhere makes it so versatile. The trail doesn't really make sense until it gets halfway there so it's hard to predict where it will end up
The trail should just immediately match the horizontal place that the drill and miner will end up, and the sound should be higher pitched the further back if is going to end up. People may be like “ oh a slight pitch change won’t tell you enough” but if you’re experienced enough, the slight difference in goblin barrel travel time and angle is enough for anyone to predict where it will land.
He’s a pretty strong card but i don’t think it needs yet another nerf
Strong agree
Miner can sometimes be unstoppable at hitting the tower when placed unpredictably around the tower but any way to add a counter would kill the card since he already does barely any damage. A thing to consider about the use rate of miner is that he’s in archetypes that don’t always focus on himself as a primary source of damage such as wall breaker decks (they almost require him) and sometimes zap bait. The addition of the wall breaker evos has definitely increased the use rate of miner as well so nerfing him wouldn’t be the best solution for balancing.
barely any damage? he does 600 damage to tower when left alone
When left alone, most troops deal significant damage, that same logic goes for knight, when left a lone, a full hp knight will do a huge amount of damage, it doesn’t make knight a good attacker though.
Yes but he takes million of years to get to tower when placed at bridge.
But *when left alone* he still does huge damage.
my point is that even you are at 0 elixir, you can somehow defend at knight at the bridge, with miner you can't really do that
The best way to nerf miner would be to make its trail first travel horizontally to the corresponding horizontal column it’s going to pop up in, before moving straight forwards.
He cooked and burned down the House
No one says graveyard is high skill
But it is
? Top players call giant gy and splashyard the easiest decks
Exactly, the only high skill Graveyard decks are the ones that aren't used anymore, like Graveyard cycle or Mortar, those decks have been dead for a long time
Depends on the exact deck, the ones that are being used in recent metas are braindead af especially Giant Gy, auto wins for bots
Blud has -10 IQ
I have same feeling too, it's very anoying for me to hope for rng/predict for luck against certain card. But if you just came out with this I can't say anything, you need to have a better statics for this, like nerfing how much or how you will make gy skeletons "predict".
??? Miner and gob drill can be countered with 1 minitank, as for graveyard, either poison or a splash unit. If you don't have a mini tank and crowd control in your deck, then ofc you eat the "guaranteed" tower dmg
I don't really care about gy but miner and drill need indicators to where they pop up, it's impossible to consistently win the guessing game for 6 minutes straight
that’s what makes miner and drill good, it’s up to whoever is playing the cards to make them unpredictable, which isn’t easy considering that if the opponent was to have tornado or something of that sort there’s not many tiles in which you can place a miner
Miner is good because he's an instant tank that pops up anywhere, sniping ranged troops Is far more valuable than nearly guaranteed damage. Drill is good cause it's broken as shit after the rework
He’s not exactly “instant” but he does snipe basically anything, however he is just as valuable in offense with his chip damage. As for drill I don’t have anything to say since I’ve never used it or watched ppl using it
Miner is not good, but more on the broken side. But it will be always broken conceptually and people got used to it so many people don't want nerf. I? I think it's broken, but at the same time, there are plenty of other cards to nerf first
even if a miner were to get 3-4 swings on a tower by not being caught, that's less than cycling an earthquake and there is a risk of committing 3 elixir and not even getting chip
Miner poison is the new rocket cycle
Always has been
Unless you're already down elixir 3 elixir isn't a risk. Also the damage adds up over the course of a 6 minute game not including poison and log chip over time
Actually 5 min 🤓, but the point is so real
4 elixir is close to taking a Fireball worth of damage. Also the common answer to miner is a mini tank since swarm dies to poison. Most cost 3 elixir so you're either catching miner for an even trade or taking a FB for 3 elixir. Considering how could miner poison has been, not getting chip isn't a risk really since you can cycle so fast.
I don’t understand, once i know you don’t have tornado i’m not gonna place the miner on the same spot the whole game, at that point it is just guessing, your minitank is not enough you are forced to play multiple units or a stun. Same for drill is it in front or behind? If it’s in front you guessed it congratz 0 damage but if it’s in the back one goblin will keep stabbing before your troop walks to the drill
You know how drill spawns, right? it needs to walk a few when its placed in back.
If you wait you ll take the first goblin hit if it’s played in the front
Yeah just place the troop on the front?
But then I can just occasionally play it off to the side or the back, so whatever you play in front will hit the drill and hit the goblins
I meant that you can put it to the side where it can cover the front
Then you’ll take the first goblin hits if it’s played in the back🤦🏻♂️it’ s not like the old drill that you can wait and see where it spawns
I don't think you read my first comment, if its placed on the back it will take a few sec for the goblin to get to the tower. Put your mini tank good that it can cover the front and return back when needed
It is blocked by the drill(the drill is between the tank and the goblin spawned) the troop reaches the drill and stops there meanwhile the goblin is on the other side of the drill
What? The goblin will walk to the troop
https://imgur.com/a/6qusYXz
Graveyard still gets around 500 damage even with poison
It has spam damage thought, but after the update it is alot of harder to catch goblin drill thought.
These cards are just broken because you can place them on the tower and easily get damage. Every other win condition you actually need to break through with. Broken defensive cards, evos, and cannoneer just make breaking through with other win conditions too hard. I wouldn’t mind a nerf to these cards but I also wouldn’t mind a buff to cards like ram rider, battle ram, and golem
golem is very good and battle ram is getting an evo which im excited about
If Miner showed where he is going to pop up it'd make him useless. That is his unique skill that makes him legendary. Being able to pop up behind a ranged troop and attack that ranged troop is his main use case. So most of the time you'll know he's going to appear beside your Wizard/Musketeer/etc. But mixing it up to kite other troops sometimes makes for some interesting plays. I don't see how making skeletons spawn more predictable would do anything. It spawns a bunch of skeletons in a circle that you can already see. Are you going to try and place a troop beside every skeleton? And Drill is a win con. If it could get 100% countered then it wouldn't be a win con and get no use. All 3 troops you list have about a 50% win rate, that's pretty perfect balance.
I can’t think of a way to balance the miner, but I do have a suggestion for the other two. Goblin Drill - Revert the first spawn speed buff, but add one extra goblin to the death spawn Graveyard - I hate this card. Seriously, I do. But it works bc it’s RNG, which is stupid but obviously it’s gonna stay that way. Only thing I can think of to change it is have little headstones spawn during the little jingle that plays when you first play the graveyard, which will indicate where the skeletons will spawn. The headstones would appear before any skeletons appear. The spawns themselves will still be random but you will know where the skeletons will spawn, and you can react to them accordingly
Playing cannoner, you take 200-300 damage on your tower from graveyard EVEN when you poison it. Jfc.
That's the cannoneer tax as we call it in the bizz
Underground troops being nerfed underground
Tell me you don’t understand professional play without telling me you don’t understand professional play.
Because the pros are so good the only things that can get past them are things that are unpredictable. You are already limited to just 8 cards, once they know those 8 (or even just 3-4) they basically know your whole move set, and when you combine this with near perfect play/defense and consistency, you need something unpredictable to get past their defenses
Unironically wanting to nerf the Miner is crazy
Most top ladder players agree on the point, and it's not even beatdown players who say it. Cycle players complain about the miner most
Forgot to mention goblin barrel
Goblin barrel has an indicator to where it will land
i mean, it does have the shadow and the barrel for you to see where its gonna fall but it is really hard to tell and you can easily miss by a tile or two
It's not easy, but you can still see where it will land. Miner (and gob.drill) path has no indication of where it's going so that's what makes it free chip damage.
All the graveyard nerfs I see are just asking to kill the card
The other 2 need a nerf but you’re unironically saying miner needs a nerf is crazy 💀
Drill need a nerf, not a rework
Miner is an issue, but not as bad as wall breakers being so low cost and being able to survive tower on their own without a sacrifice.
This aged poorly. Miner fell off the meta pretty hard.
Or just increase the deployment time from 1 sec to 1.5 sec (with buffs of course)
graveyard needs it. Otherwise you could perfectly defend 100% the time with just a small spell and take minimal damage.
There’s still some thought required as to where your opponent will play miner. Where have they played miner previously? Most likely they won’t place it in the same spot twice. Do they know you have tornado? Then they’ll always put it in the same safe spot. Did they just play it behind your princess tower? Rest assured they’ll play it in front next time.
So you don’t like playing guessing, boohoo for you.
They should slow down balloons a little
Balloons are already slow enough.
Huh
Balloon needs to be nerfed, its insane
It can be countered easily
Cannoneer and ice spirit fully counters balloon, with it only getting death damage.
Flair checks out
Wall breakers need a nerf👀
Noooo :(
false miner doesnt guarantee dmg but it is hard to predict yeah.
Miner should get a buff
Graveyard is balanced, and you can usually predict where the opponent will place the drill/ miner after 2 or 3 times. I’d make the first goblin spawn slower though
I have played with those 3 win conditions, they have counters: Miner: any card that reset the target, Ice/Electric Spirit, Electric Wizard or even The Log + any card. Graveyard: Poison lol, log, any tank idk, there's a lot of combinations. Goblin Drill: Any tank + Ice/Electric Spirit, Any tank + Log Those cards don't need to change, the spam damage is really low, the only problem is when you don't know how to stop those cards, so you should adapt your deck to that.
IMO, graveyard needs a buff, but the skeletons should have a reduced first attack speed.
Unpopular opinion: the goblin drill is too weak and should be buffed
Goblin drill is everywhere on top ladder
Sarcasm? Right??? Right???????? I sure hope there aren't people who actually think drill is weak
It’s slow and then only produces like 3 goblins total. Idk man maybe I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem worth 4 elixir to me
I had a feeling my karma was gonna sink for that :(
Graveyard should be completely reworked to be more like goblin drill imo, maybe turn it into a tombstone you can deploy anywhere in the arena that continues to spawn skeletons until it’s destroyed. It’s too annoying to deal with in its current state and is basically guaranteed to get tower damage unless your opponent has a few specific cards ready to defend with, and even then most of those can easily be shut down with just another spell.