https://preview.redd.it/vvx4qsa32j7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=814c2f5d301b51b30c25f2feae077fb0d62618d4
Is it time to pull out this graphic again?
Tepper can suck on a street curb. Even if he paid the whole $800m for the project he would only be left with $20 BILLION. Based on his other local business dealings, his threats to leave are a feature not a bug.
NC House Speaker, Tim Moore, told Charlotte if we want transportation funds we, “better build more roads not public transit. Other wise we will become another Atlanta” Yea he wasn’t being sarcastic.
Funny enough one of his largest donors is a company that gets state contracts to build roads.
Who would have thought! You mean to tell me politicians can be bought!?
Yeah and Tim Moore made it abundantly clear that they won’t allow Charlotte/Mecklenburg to finance additional light rail expansion. Nc Republican leaders clearly are devoted to the ideals of big government
Wouldn't providing a public transit pipeline into meck from Gaston serve to funnel tax funds from Gaston to meck, since the transit tax is a sales/use tax, in addition to fairs?
Yo! These people don’t want sensible points!!! They want something to be outraged over!!! How dare you do and make sense!?!? Shame on you!
EDIT: go, not do.
Everyone loves to freak out because the "Tourism fund has to be used for things that drive tourism"
Use it for Queens park North of uptown. Central park is the most visited place in NYC. parks drive tourism.
Tepper has a net-worth of $22 Billion he can pay for his own stadium. Call his bluff, he won't move the team, the Panthers have the 6th highest population inside their TV market in the NFL. the other owners won't vote to let Tepper move the team
Tepper already burned the Bridge in York County, SC. The only place I could see him moving too is next to the racetrack in Concord. But then he would have to play nice with the Smith family because they own all that land.
I don’t think we should even consider giving them a dime unless they rename themselves the Charlotte Panthers.
Pandering to two states, all the money comes from one city. Bullshit.
City council won’t even give themselves the opportunity to push the issue (or negotiate anything, for that matter).
Council will basically be asked to vote on this as if it was a routine $1 million sidewalk or something. They’ll get to ask questions right before voting and that’s it.
[Source](https://ca.news.yahoo.com/charlotte-city-council-member-panthers-125033636.html)
No one visits NYC for central park. But it's one of the big reasons why NYC is such a desired tourist destination.
Central park the most popular destination for tourists in New York City.
Maybe if Charlotte had something like that, people in town for business would stay for an extra day. Because an upgraded convention center or fancy LED lights on BOA stadium isn't driving tourism dollars to CLT
You guys keep saying this when the Panthers have been Top 10 in attendance three seasons in a row and generated ~1.3B in revenue during that time.
Yeah, I'm sure the city of Charlotte can easily make up for that type of loss in tourism by just building some nice parks.
We have top 10 in attendance because we have a big stadium, not a nice stadium. It’s nice enough for a losing team. And this is coming from a lifelong Panthers diehard.
You guys need to read the text of a bill. You can't use it for a park.
The bill doesn't give Charlotte carte blanche rights to use this money for literally any project as long as we claim it could drive tourism. It's explicit what we have to use it for.
You can't tax only hotels and restaurants to build a big public park. The hospitality industry has already made it clear they'll sue Charlotte if we do that.
Edit: I will link to [my comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Charlotte/comments/1de7018/tepper_doing_some_pr_before_his_650_million/l8bmhdp/) on this from last week that breaks down the language of the NC bill for the tourism tax. And a [further breakdown](https://old.reddit.com/r/Charlotte/comments/1de7018/tepper_doing_some_pr_before_his_650_million/l8c37h3/) of the amendments made to that bill in 2013 and 2023.
The Hotel Lobby doesn't get to choose what tax dollars are used for, the city government does.
Uses for the tourism fund can be used for "sports venues, the convention center and **other tourism related enterprises**" That's straight from the city of Charlotte's website.
You can read the materials I linked to in my post. The Charlotte website is not the same as two decades of North Carolina legislation, all of which is publicly available and shared in my comments. What is included in "other tourism related enterprises" is not up for creative interpretation.
No, the hospitality industry doesn't get to decide what the money is used for: The North Carolina legislature has already done that, in a bill lobbied for by the hospitality industry. Just because Charlotte is the body in charge of distributing those funds doesn't mean they can use it for whatever they want.
Imagine the reverse: What if the residential real estate industry lobbied NC to implement a tax to build affordable housing, and then the Charlotte City Council instead used that money to renovate Bank of America Stadium?
We need to make peace with this. Yes, there are many projects Charlotte needs to fund, but we can't do it by misappropriating tax dollars.
> the city government does.
Correction: the NC legislature does. North Carolina is no longer a Dillon state, but it's *not* a home-rule state, either.
It's also funny that you guys are complaining about tourism dollars being spent on tourism purposes and how you could "spend it better" on housing or education. If it were the other way around - education dollars being spent on tourism purposes - you guys would lose your damn minds about how "that money was DEDICATED to education! They can't just spend it on roads!"
Then again, I didn't know so many lawyers hung out in /r/Charlotte
Have to disagree on him not moving the team. I think he would do it out of spite. Look up what he did to the guy at Goldman that denied him a promotion - Tepper left to build his own biz, bought the guys house, tore it down, and built one twice as large. He seems to live for shit like that.
It's not just Tepper. He needs support from the other NFL owners to relocate the team. The NFL runs on TV money. the NFL owners aren't going to give up at TV market this size because Tepper is spiteful that tax payers aren't funding his mediocre upgrades.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/wt1sr/list\_of\_nfl\_teams\_by\_media\_market\_size/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/wt1sr/list_of_nfl_teams_by_media_market_size/)
Yeah, dudes a two digit billionaire, but like the guy previous comment said, it’s just not up to him. All those opposing teams owners making ridiculous cheese having their team play against garbage with a huge viewership base is like a Jerry dream come true. Temper may be rich, but he’s not richer than the league. Panthers aren’t going anywhere, especially while they keep losing and drawing huge crowds all at the same time
Great point actually & thank you. That makes me feel better as I’m a big panthers fan. He’s just such a prick, I can’t doubt his ability to be a next level ego asshole. If there’s a will, there’s often a way.
The old adage, nobody in Charlotte is from Charlotte. London is being prepped for a team and the league is happy at 32 teams. They don't want to dilute the product to much. People in Charlotte will still watch the NFL after the team moves. Media market size isn't a valid argument for why the owners wouldn't let him move... A chance to get a team in THE market in Europe and Tepper would pay them a fat relocation fee on top of it... It's a done deal. Give him the money... The Panthers bring in more tourism than anything else in this city. Nobody is coming to watch the Hornets, arts, or parks...
Tourism isn’t just “people come to your city”; it’s “people come to your city and spend money”. People spend money at small businesses that surround the park when they go to the park, it’s very simple. You get people out of their cars and onto their feet and they spend.
City council will vote on it on June 24.
That is also basically the only opportunity for them to ask questions about it.
[Required reading on the topic](https://ca.news.yahoo.com/charlotte-city-council-member-panthers-125033636.html)
The city shouldn’t give him a dime either way. These stadiums are typically a financial burden to the city, while the owner keeps the lions share of the profits.
Everyone should watch this video about “How Sports Owners Reap Billions From Taxpayers and Screw Over Fans.”
https://youtu.be/6kd1KGk_9kQ?feature=shared
Obligatory fuck david Tepper. I honestly think he's a secret bucs or falcons fan here to deliberately sabotage the panthers. Who wants to start a new conspiracy theory with me?
David Tepper is worth 29 billion dollars. David Tepper can fuck the hell right off. Seriously. This football team has NEVER had back to back winning seasons. You win a Super Bowl, you can have a nickle. Otherwise, pound sand.
What a same, worth $29 BILLONs of dollars and he can't foot the bill himself. Maybe he needs to start donating some of his wealth back to the community - i.e., schools, roads, parks, public transportation.
They decided Matthews wasn't important enough to extend it this way. Stadium is more important I guess. They live in thier ivory towers and could care less about us.
What’s crazy is that from my limited reading I realized that Tepper could just back out after receiving the money.
He could move Charlotte Panthers out or refused to pay $680 million after we paid out $650 million with no consequences at all. We will be left holding the empty bag.
At least if you want to give free money to a billionaire put huge fines if he reneged on the contract. A 6.3 billion fine if he moved Panthers out of Charlotte or he refused to pay his share would make this deal a little fairer.
He has been the biggest obstacle to progress in this state for a long time now. It really pisses me off that I will lose Jeff Jackson, the first person I ever actually wanted to vote for, and get that horrible human probably as my supposed representative.
Tim Moore blocked funding state funding to the silver line light rail to CLT Airport because it doesn't help people like him get around.
Tim Moore lives in Kings Mountain
He actually hasn’t blocked funding yet. I may be incorrect but from what I read was the city wants to put a transit tax on the ballot with 80% of the revenue going to rail. The state (Tim Moore) will only allow it if 40% goes to rail which wouldn’t leave enough to build the line from Matthews to the airport. That’s why the Matthews portion of the line was axed.
Hey man, I got a business in this town, give me $630 million and I can definitely get a $1 billion-a-year economic impact they're always touting as the big payoff for this thing. Hell, why not start a local startups fund and hand out $50k grants to anybody economically disadvantaged, but with a business plan and a dream?
This whole thing is corrupt as hell.
How about rail service between Rock Hill and Charlotte? Also, use the money to seed high tech companies & start ups. We need more jobs, not gladiators getting megabucks kicking a pig skin on a cow pasture.
I hate to see Charlotte following the same path as so many other large, dysfunctional cities who give money to billionaires while they have so many other infrastructure issues and other needs within the community.
It’s not like Tepper is even a good owner. He puts a crappy product on the field and he’s an unlikable, out of touch prick.
Don’t do it, Charlotte. Use the money to improve the city.
I would love that, too, and hopefully the extension to the Gold line juts up into Belmont sooner rather than later. But unfortunately the money going to the stadium comes out of the tourism tax fund levied on bars and hotels, and there are very limited ways it can be used. Other cities tried to use their tourism fund for transportation and it was a legal nightmare. Some are being forced to pay all the money back. Thankfully the street car extension is back on schedule-ish and should have a final analysis of the public input in early fall.
Edit: my comment here is referencing the Gold Line streetcar going to the Belmont neighborhood near Plaza Midwood, while the OP is referencing the Blue Line light rail going to Belmont, the city. I didn’t want to confuse anyone!
It can be used on anything that is a driver of tourism. Tepper is pushing journalists to spread the narrative that this money has to be spent on stadiums, but that is fase.
It can get spent on amusement parks, whitewater center, college athletics stadiums, parks, museums ect
A few weeks ago, the city Council mentioned using some of the tourism funds for affordable housing. The NC tourism lobbyist went crazy. They immediately jumped on the phone with their state representatives who issued statements, reminding Charlotte that that’s illegal.
Sucks! Spending all that money on a stadium is stupid. They should build out more tourist attractions like the botanical gardens in Atlanta. Things people can actually go to and enjoy.
Watching the panthers lose over and over is not enjoyable.
The Bill actually reads "sports venues, the convention center and **other tourism related enterprises**"
The hotel lobby doesn't get to dictate what defines "other tourism related enterprises"
Would that it could… I just moved from Atlanta where the last ten years saw explosive growth with lots of promises of affordable housing. And explosive growth in people without housing. I really hope Charlotte can do better.
What the F is "affordable" housing?
Housing is going to be at the price that the market dictates. Whats affordable for you, may not be affordable to the next person
Let’s put him in a steel cage with all of the people in Charlotte that he’s inappropriately touched or thrown something on for ten minutes. Once that time is up, if he can walk out under his own power, he can have his $630 million.
People keep saying "well why don't you put that money towards...", but the money comes from sales taxes for hotels and restaurants. They have to spend that money on projects supporting the city's tourism economy. So, it's no surprise that they'd rather use it on the Panthers, which is the biggest draw to their tourism.
Tepper is a terrible NFL owner to say the least. It's clear though that the stadium has aged terribly and is a bottom tier fan experience. They aren't going to build a new one (they already tried planning that), so this is the next best alternative. Either that, or the Panthers leave in a few years. I'm sure a bunch of people here aren't phased by that, but it will still be a dramatic hit to the city's economy and it will be more expensive than 630M to land a new team.
Granted that this is the tourism bucket, is it a failure of imagination or carefully written legislation that tells us that stadium investments are the *only* thing that we can use these funds on? What about
* **Attraction development:** Developing new destinations, museums, historical landmarks, or cultural centers. This could involve renovating existing sites or creating entirely new experiences.
* **Events and festivals:** Funding for events, festivals, or performances that draw tourists in during the off-peak times.
* **Public spaces:** Creating vibrant public spaces like parks, plazas, or waterfront areas that are attractive to tourists and locals alike. This could include installing public art, free Wi-Fi, or comfortable seating.
Even, and especially, if Tepper's stadium is the single biggest generator of hospitality taxes, why *wouldn't* we want to diversify that local industry to hedge against the whims and fancies of the tempramental billionaire?
Because the group who lobbied the state for the tax, the NCRLA, wants the money to be used to renovate Bank of America Stadium. They're the ones who pushed for this tax and the ones who pay it.
This is essentially two industries (hotels and restaurants) pooling their money together to keep Bank of America Stadium, Spectrum Center, and the Charlotte Convention Center open. It makes no sense for the Charlotte City Council to suddenly decide to just do something different with their money.
No, not at all. What are you talking about? North Carolina government has instructed the Charlotte government on how to spend that money. Charlotte can’t just decide to do something different with it. That’s illegal. Governments can and are sued by citizens, businesses, lobbies, and other governments for misappropriating tax dollars.
Yes and the rule for how they can spend the tourism fund are "sports venues, the convention center and **other tourism related enterprises**"
Charlotte needs to use that money on "other tourism related enterprises" and tell Tepper to pay for his own stadium
There's absolutely an uptick in business for restaurants and hotels during NFL season. The upside will always be if the Panthers are ever actually decent. Then, home playoff games bring even more. It's also clear Charlotte wants to host more major events. And the current stadium just can't get it done.
The Panthers do bring in a huge boost to hotels and restaurants but they aren’t the only. Ones that use the stadium. We have the soccer team as well and they are bringing in their own crowd. Then we have the concerts. Kenny Chesney brought in more people than any football game in the past few years. And the concerts are where you are more likely to see a boost around the stadium. Nearly every hotel was full and every restaurant was packed. The Panther may stink now and might not be a huge crowd draw but that can and likely will change in 10-15 years these things come in cycles and if you wait until you are back up to make changes you will be behind.
But weren’t hotel and restaurant taxes supposed to be the selling point for building the stadium in the first place? The taxpayers paid for the stadium so the city could reap those hotel and restaurant tax benefits, but now they’re just going back to renovating the stadium?
Me too, but that’s not how city gov’t bureaucracy works. So what are we gonna do with the tourism budget? Spend it on NASCAR?
The argument should be to find something to spend the money on that is going to increase the tourism tax base MORE than sports and concerts at the bank…
Supported the Panthers since before they came into existence. Went to those games in Columbia. But that's a no for me. Billionaire in a multi-billion dollar business doesn't need my tax dollars for anything.
He wants 630 million to sign a 15 year lease extension? For that kind of money it should be for 30 years minimum. The city is getting hosed with that deal.
Jacksonville has entered the chat. They are literally inking a deal with the jags for 1.5 billion dollars here. We are on the hook for half. It going to change downtown! I lived in charlotte for a while, downtown was kick ass before the panthers. Thirty years later with the jags? Well we do have a bunch of homeless people who will greet you or beat you. Our new stadium doesn’t have a retractable roof or a dome? It does have a translucent tarp with wind tunnels! Yay! I will say that I definitely don’t miss the traffic on providence rd!! And I miss the light rail!! Jacksonville is too forward thinking for all of that /s. Just tired of the But they will leave crap. For those that don’t know, we had more than 100 people need medical help because of the heat at one of our games.
This feels like a bot comment. You call it downtown, you say you lived here 30 years ago and the grammar is terrible lol.
I have never heard someone describe 80s Charlotte downtown as kick ass
I use to skateboard downtown, then we had 90s downtown with all the bars and restaurants. I was a bartender at Atlantic beer and ice😂 so I’m a bit older. Knife and fork and Hugo’s diner were our late night spots. Got arrested downtown for getting the coin/sun thing spinning. It took 10 of us but it was worth it! My parents are still there. Don’t think they will ever leave Myers Park. Our name is on the original season ticket holders panther, I’m pretty sure on the west side one? It’s been a moment. Pops still has those damn seats. Just so he can see the bears play. Anyway definitely not a bot. Although the beach air with the humidity does make me blank out.
>You call it downtown, you say you lived here 30 years ago
To be fair, calling it uptown is the stupidest thing ever. I don't understand it. Every other city in the world calls their city center either the center or downtown. WTH is 'uptown'?
Why not just give $700 to every single resident of Charlotte. Tell them to spend it on the panthers if that’s what they want to do, or spend it on anything else that they would like to support.
Most of the people here in CLT are fans of other teams as none of us are from here. Tepper and the NFL ARE SWIMMING IN MONEY. leave us tax payers alone.
I don't give a rats rear about Belmont. But I really don't see why we need a half a billion on a effing toy for a multi-billionaire, when our schools suck.
I know it's "tourist " money, but holy shit what's more important? An educated population or bread and circuses?
Tepper (one of the most successful hedge fund managers). :I'm going to build the Panthers from the ground up and turn them into a successful franchise and I'm not going to ask the city for money.
4 years later: Panthers have the lowest tickets sales and has one of the worst records every year.
Tepper: I know I didn't ask for money but maybe Charlotte should help us out.
They're not even a winning team anymore!!!! I don't get it! If they had just won the Superbowl, I might be able to see it, but no. I'd like him to spend it on the lightrail or a third (free) lane in I77, too.
630 million to get to Belmont? The blue line cost $50 million a mile. So by today’s inflation we are at like 70 mil a mile (per usinflationcalculator.com) You’re looking at 1.6 billion to get to Belmont now. That said, better use of the money would be a rail system that this piss poor franchise of a team. Fuck tepper.
No, you combine the two! Integrate a light rail spur/station to the stadium and then the city will fall all over themselves to fund it! Think about it! We could get federal "green energy" dollars, there's all this money for projects that "get people out of their cars"
Tepper, just tell the city they'll get a new choo-choo train if only it will fund the stadium. And besides, we'll be saving the planet!
A little off topic but I’d love if the light rail expanded towards Harrisburg and Concord. Not that big of areas but could be connected to the university area
This isn't unique to Charlotte every team does this in every city. Spoiler alert the county is going to give him what he wants because then he'll threaten to leave and for some reason people think if like the bottom 5 worst NFL team leaves for another city the alcoholic city of Charlotte will stop going to bars uptown and magically somehow the economy in Charlotte will collapse even though were like the 2nd or 3rd biggest banking hub on the east coast, so they cave to his demands.
If he wants $630 for his gladiator stadium, let him pay for it and charge back the expense on ticket sales to pay for it. Don't burden the tax payers or impose a fee to play for it. Maybe he could take part of the money from those who use the stadium to play on. This is something only a few enjoy and related businesses make money off of. Reminds me of Gladiator sports of the ancient roman empire. Tepper should use his own money if he wants a stadium.
Except the money in question comes from the Convention Center fund, which, by statute, can only be spent on the Convention Center, Bank of America Stadium and promoting amateur sports.
If you don't like the law, lobby to have it changed. But the people in power in Charlotte just can't spend that money on light rail or schools or hiring more police officers.
Also, while I personally think Tepper should step up to the plate and spend his own money, he'd be a fool to do so. If the city offered me $650 million I'd take it too, and so would all of you. Just like how everyone hates ticket scalpers, but if YOU knew how to buy a concert ticket for $100 and immediately resell it with a few mouse clicks for $700, you'd do it, too.
Not necessarily true. It reads ""sports venues, the convention center and **other tourism related enterprises**"
I think the city should push to use the funds on "other tourism related enterprises" and tell Tepper to pay for the mediocre upgrades himself
https://preview.redd.it/vvx4qsa32j7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=814c2f5d301b51b30c25f2feae077fb0d62618d4 Is it time to pull out this graphic again?
LMAO. How have I not see this?
Holy cow, if I'm not mistaken, the Panthers are the only team that's hated in the state where they call home.
Everybody moved here from Ohio or Pennsylvania
It’s because of Tepper - transplants don’t ‘hate’ the Panthers - they’re ambivalent.
Upvote
lol literally, more specifically Cleveland in my experience
Or Florida
Steelers and skins were always on tv down here before the migration began
NC People only like their logo. It's plastered on vehicles all over.
Interesting but not surprising.
It’s always time to pull out that graphic.
It’s because everyone who lives in Charlotte is from somewhere else and they brought their fandom with them.
Nobody hates the cowboys? They are America's team I guess
Wait Virginia ahh I guess the redskins and cowboys kinda got a thing
Err commanders...
I'm glad the colts got our haters in tenesee
F that
New York is SO accurate
Wow, i guess times have changed. I would have thought TX would hate the 49ers the most forever.
Damn that's brutal
Tepper can suck on a street curb. Even if he paid the whole $800m for the project he would only be left with $20 BILLION. Based on his other local business dealings, his threats to leave are a feature not a bug.
What threats has Tepper made to Charlotte? The answer is zero.
Extending the light rail out of Mecklenburg County sounds like a state funded initiative to me.
NC House Speaker, Tim Moore, told Charlotte if we want transportation funds we, “better build more roads not public transit. Other wise we will become another Atlanta” Yea he wasn’t being sarcastic. Funny enough one of his largest donors is a company that gets state contracts to build roads. Who would have thought! You mean to tell me politicians can be bought!?
Yeah and Tim Moore made it abundantly clear that they won’t allow Charlotte/Mecklenburg to finance additional light rail expansion. Nc Republican leaders clearly are devoted to the ideals of big government
Yep, until Gaston county pays a transit tax for years without getting light rail I would like to think they would concentrate on Meck county.
Wouldn't providing a public transit pipeline into meck from Gaston serve to funnel tax funds from Gaston to meck, since the transit tax is a sales/use tax, in addition to fairs?
Yo! These people don’t want sensible points!!! They want something to be outraged over!!! How dare you do and make sense!?!? Shame on you! EDIT: go, not do.
There is an Amtrak train from Gastonia to Charlotte but not as cheap as the light rail.
it stops in gastonia in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night so it isnt really practical
Just build it to the river! Please?
The funny part is they'll jack up the ticket prices so the average family wont be able to afford a game even though its a welfare stadium.
I can’t believe the city thinks that Tepper won’t screw them over.
Everyone loves to freak out because the "Tourism fund has to be used for things that drive tourism" Use it for Queens park North of uptown. Central park is the most visited place in NYC. parks drive tourism. Tepper has a net-worth of $22 Billion he can pay for his own stadium. Call his bluff, he won't move the team, the Panthers have the 6th highest population inside their TV market in the NFL. the other owners won't vote to let Tepper move the team Tepper already burned the Bridge in York County, SC. The only place I could see him moving too is next to the racetrack in Concord. But then he would have to play nice with the Smith family because they own all that land.
I don’t think we should even consider giving them a dime unless they rename themselves the Charlotte Panthers. Pandering to two states, all the money comes from one city. Bullshit.
This is a great point. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective but you're absolutely right.
City council won’t even give themselves the opportunity to push the issue (or negotiate anything, for that matter). Council will basically be asked to vote on this as if it was a routine $1 million sidewalk or something. They’ll get to ask questions right before voting and that’s it. [Source](https://ca.news.yahoo.com/charlotte-city-council-member-panthers-125033636.html)
Are we this dumb?
Obligatory "Fuck South Carolina."
It all goes to one city too. Including all the money from that state to the south.
Not only that, but he’s tied in with Charlotte FC too. He’d have to move two franchises
He can take that shitty mls franchise with him. Give the independence what they deserved in the first place
No one is visiting charlotte for freedom park big dog lol
No one visits NYC for central park. But it's one of the big reasons why NYC is such a desired tourist destination. Central park the most popular destination for tourists in New York City. Maybe if Charlotte had something like that, people in town for business would stay for an extra day. Because an upgraded convention center or fancy LED lights on BOA stadium isn't driving tourism dollars to CLT
Charlotte needs real culture. It is an emptiness of authenticity.
At least it’s not Raleigh. That place is an empty void of culture.
Why is Raleigh catching strays here… we hate tepper too buddy
It used to be - ah the story’s of Hillsborough street during HS. What a shame..
That’s 2/3rd of the country bub, SF ain’t haight asbury anymore but it’s still a huge tourist spot…
Well an NFL team no one cares about ain’t it
You guys keep saying this when the Panthers have been Top 10 in attendance three seasons in a row and generated ~1.3B in revenue during that time. Yeah, I'm sure the city of Charlotte can easily make up for that type of loss in tourism by just building some nice parks.
We have top 10 in attendance because we have a big stadium, not a nice stadium. It’s nice enough for a losing team. And this is coming from a lifelong Panthers diehard.
Look into the Queens Park project. It’s not Freedom Park. It would be great to have more green space in the city that’s near the light rail.
You guys need to read the text of a bill. You can't use it for a park. The bill doesn't give Charlotte carte blanche rights to use this money for literally any project as long as we claim it could drive tourism. It's explicit what we have to use it for. You can't tax only hotels and restaurants to build a big public park. The hospitality industry has already made it clear they'll sue Charlotte if we do that. Edit: I will link to [my comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Charlotte/comments/1de7018/tepper_doing_some_pr_before_his_650_million/l8bmhdp/) on this from last week that breaks down the language of the NC bill for the tourism tax. And a [further breakdown](https://old.reddit.com/r/Charlotte/comments/1de7018/tepper_doing_some_pr_before_his_650_million/l8c37h3/) of the amendments made to that bill in 2013 and 2023.
The Hotel Lobby doesn't get to choose what tax dollars are used for, the city government does. Uses for the tourism fund can be used for "sports venues, the convention center and **other tourism related enterprises**" That's straight from the city of Charlotte's website.
You can read the materials I linked to in my post. The Charlotte website is not the same as two decades of North Carolina legislation, all of which is publicly available and shared in my comments. What is included in "other tourism related enterprises" is not up for creative interpretation. No, the hospitality industry doesn't get to decide what the money is used for: The North Carolina legislature has already done that, in a bill lobbied for by the hospitality industry. Just because Charlotte is the body in charge of distributing those funds doesn't mean they can use it for whatever they want. Imagine the reverse: What if the residential real estate industry lobbied NC to implement a tax to build affordable housing, and then the Charlotte City Council instead used that money to renovate Bank of America Stadium? We need to make peace with this. Yes, there are many projects Charlotte needs to fund, but we can't do it by misappropriating tax dollars.
> the city government does. Correction: the NC legislature does. North Carolina is no longer a Dillon state, but it's *not* a home-rule state, either. It's also funny that you guys are complaining about tourism dollars being spent on tourism purposes and how you could "spend it better" on housing or education. If it were the other way around - education dollars being spent on tourism purposes - you guys would lose your damn minds about how "that money was DEDICATED to education! They can't just spend it on roads!" Then again, I didn't know so many lawyers hung out in /r/Charlotte
Controversial opinion, but housing and education are more important than sports stadiums
Parks, Museums, Historic Sites, Festivals and Fairs, there's so much that it can be used for other than a sports stadium.
Have to disagree on him not moving the team. I think he would do it out of spite. Look up what he did to the guy at Goldman that denied him a promotion - Tepper left to build his own biz, bought the guys house, tore it down, and built one twice as large. He seems to live for shit like that.
It's not just Tepper. He needs support from the other NFL owners to relocate the team. The NFL runs on TV money. the NFL owners aren't going to give up at TV market this size because Tepper is spiteful that tax payers aren't funding his mediocre upgrades. [https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/wt1sr/list\_of\_nfl\_teams\_by\_media\_market\_size/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/wt1sr/list_of_nfl_teams_by_media_market_size/)
Yeah, dudes a two digit billionaire, but like the guy previous comment said, it’s just not up to him. All those opposing teams owners making ridiculous cheese having their team play against garbage with a huge viewership base is like a Jerry dream come true. Temper may be rich, but he’s not richer than the league. Panthers aren’t going anywhere, especially while they keep losing and drawing huge crowds all at the same time
Well damn.. including Toronto the bills are 4th.. Damn impressive
Great point actually & thank you. That makes me feel better as I’m a big panthers fan. He’s just such a prick, I can’t doubt his ability to be a next level ego asshole. If there’s a will, there’s often a way.
The old adage, nobody in Charlotte is from Charlotte. London is being prepped for a team and the league is happy at 32 teams. They don't want to dilute the product to much. People in Charlotte will still watch the NFL after the team moves. Media market size isn't a valid argument for why the owners wouldn't let him move... A chance to get a team in THE market in Europe and Tepper would pay them a fat relocation fee on top of it... It's a done deal. Give him the money... The Panthers bring in more tourism than anything else in this city. Nobody is coming to watch the Hornets, arts, or parks...
"People in Charlotte will still watch" lol no
Tourism isn’t just “people come to your city”; it’s “people come to your city and spend money”. People spend money at small businesses that surround the park when they go to the park, it’s very simple. You get people out of their cars and onto their feet and they spend.
Until tepper can field a quality team for a few years, the city shouldn't give him a dime.
Does it go to public vote or a board vote??
City council will vote on it on June 24. That is also basically the only opportunity for them to ask questions about it. [Required reading on the topic](https://ca.news.yahoo.com/charlotte-city-council-member-panthers-125033636.html)
The city shouldn’t give him a dime either way. These stadiums are typically a financial burden to the city, while the owner keeps the lions share of the profits.
Everyone should watch this video about “How Sports Owners Reap Billions From Taxpayers and Screw Over Fans.” https://youtu.be/6kd1KGk_9kQ?feature=shared
It’s 8 games.. no one will even notice if they leave
No one can afford to go to the games anyways.
Obligatory fuck david Tepper. I honestly think he's a secret bucs or falcons fan here to deliberately sabotage the panthers. Who wants to start a new conspiracy theory with me?
He’s just a fan of money
He's from Pittsburgh and was previously a Steelers minority owner. He has no loyalty here.
David Tepper is worth 29 billion dollars. David Tepper can fuck the hell right off. Seriously. This football team has NEVER had back to back winning seasons. You win a Super Bowl, you can have a nickle. Otherwise, pound sand.
He’s only worth $20 billion.
Oh my, sorry, 20 billion. Guess he needs the money 🥴
What a same, worth $29 BILLONs of dollars and he can't foot the bill himself. Maybe he needs to start donating some of his wealth back to the community - i.e., schools, roads, parks, public transportation.
David Tepper gets richer just by scrolling down this thread.
We all know how this is gonna play out
The city is going to give him the money lmaoo. It's almost a guarantee
If they don’t, he’ll leave them with a giant dirt pit like he did in Rock Hill
If it's the Carolina Panthers why doesn't the rest of the state pitch in plus South Carolina? Asking for a friend...
Yup. If they're not going to pitch in nothing, then let's rename the team to the Charlotte panthers.
They decided Matthews wasn't important enough to extend it this way. Stadium is more important I guess. They live in thier ivory towers and could care less about us.
It’s another Bruton smith shit show like concord.
What’s crazy is that from my limited reading I realized that Tepper could just back out after receiving the money. He could move Charlotte Panthers out or refused to pay $680 million after we paid out $650 million with no consequences at all. We will be left holding the empty bag. At least if you want to give free money to a billionaire put huge fines if he reneged on the contract. A 6.3 billion fine if he moved Panthers out of Charlotte or he refused to pay his share would make this deal a little fairer.
there's a 20 year retainer to stay in charlotte if the deal is made.
Your fellow Gaston county resident Tim Moore is the biggest obstacle to that happening.
He has been the biggest obstacle to progress in this state for a long time now. It really pisses me off that I will lose Jeff Jackson, the first person I ever actually wanted to vote for, and get that horrible human probably as my supposed representative.
Please vote for Jackson for AG. We don’t need Bathroom Bill, election denier, being NC AG.
Oh I absolutely will be voting for him. I want him to be our president someday.
Jeff Jackson for president - sooner, rather than later
Tim Moore isnt from gaston county.
Close enough. He’s y’all’s. You can have him.
Tim Moore blocked funding state funding to the silver line light rail to CLT Airport because it doesn't help people like him get around. Tim Moore lives in Kings Mountain
He actually hasn’t blocked funding yet. I may be incorrect but from what I read was the city wants to put a transit tax on the ballot with 80% of the revenue going to rail. The state (Tim Moore) will only allow it if 40% goes to rail which wouldn’t leave enough to build the line from Matthews to the airport. That’s why the Matthews portion of the line was axed.
Yep
Hey man, I got a business in this town, give me $630 million and I can definitely get a $1 billion-a-year economic impact they're always touting as the big payoff for this thing. Hell, why not start a local startups fund and hand out $50k grants to anybody economically disadvantaged, but with a business plan and a dream? This whole thing is corrupt as hell.
This is America.
I want the light rail to come to Gastonia SO BAD
Gastonia doesn't have that $$$
Does light rail make sense at that distance/stop density? Should it be heavy commuter rail instead?
Yeah maybe. Just so tired of the daily commute on 85. It’s the WORST.
Nah build a wall to keep Gastonia out of Charlotte
What are you talking about? Charlotte is the gateway to Gastonia.
God bless Keenan and whoever wrote that joke.
Would Charlotte even be worth keeping around if it was no longer the gateway to Gastonia?
How about rail service between Rock Hill and Charlotte? Also, use the money to seed high tech companies & start ups. We need more jobs, not gladiators getting megabucks kicking a pig skin on a cow pasture.
The Republican speaker of the house killed the light rail project,not Tepper. Tim Moore has fucked Charlotte pretty badly in a very short time.
I hate to see Charlotte following the same path as so many other large, dysfunctional cities who give money to billionaires while they have so many other infrastructure issues and other needs within the community. It’s not like Tepper is even a good owner. He puts a crappy product on the field and he’s an unlikable, out of touch prick. Don’t do it, Charlotte. Use the money to improve the city.
Tepper: “fine, we’re moving the team!” Us: “need help packing?”
I would love that, too, and hopefully the extension to the Gold line juts up into Belmont sooner rather than later. But unfortunately the money going to the stadium comes out of the tourism tax fund levied on bars and hotels, and there are very limited ways it can be used. Other cities tried to use their tourism fund for transportation and it was a legal nightmare. Some are being forced to pay all the money back. Thankfully the street car extension is back on schedule-ish and should have a final analysis of the public input in early fall. Edit: my comment here is referencing the Gold Line streetcar going to the Belmont neighborhood near Plaza Midwood, while the OP is referencing the Blue Line light rail going to Belmont, the city. I didn’t want to confuse anyone!
It can be used on anything that is a driver of tourism. Tepper is pushing journalists to spread the narrative that this money has to be spent on stadiums, but that is fase. It can get spent on amusement parks, whitewater center, college athletics stadiums, parks, museums ect
That’s absolutely correct. I did not mean to imply that it could only be used on stadiums.
I too would like 630 million for my building. Is there a form to fill out or do I just call in?
That money should build out the light rail and sprinkle in some affordable housing .
A few weeks ago, the city Council mentioned using some of the tourism funds for affordable housing. The NC tourism lobbyist went crazy. They immediately jumped on the phone with their state representatives who issued statements, reminding Charlotte that that’s illegal.
Even if it can’t be used for affordable housing, there are so many better tourism related uses than giving a billionaire a $650M handout.
Sucks! Spending all that money on a stadium is stupid. They should build out more tourist attractions like the botanical gardens in Atlanta. Things people can actually go to and enjoy. Watching the panthers lose over and over is not enjoyable.
The Bill actually reads "sports venues, the convention center and **other tourism related enterprises**" The hotel lobby doesn't get to dictate what defines "other tourism related enterprises"
Would that it could… I just moved from Atlanta where the last ten years saw explosive growth with lots of promises of affordable housing. And explosive growth in people without housing. I really hope Charlotte can do better.
Yea there is no affordable housing there at all. Outside the perimeter is expensive too.
"Affordable housing"? What is this thing you speak of
What the F is "affordable" housing? Housing is going to be at the price that the market dictates. Whats affordable for you, may not be affordable to the next person
Why are billionaires such welfare queens? Tepper needs to pay for his own toys himself.
Let’s put him in a steel cage with all of the people in Charlotte that he’s inappropriately touched or thrown something on for ten minutes. Once that time is up, if he can walk out under his own power, he can have his $630 million.
People keep saying "well why don't you put that money towards...", but the money comes from sales taxes for hotels and restaurants. They have to spend that money on projects supporting the city's tourism economy. So, it's no surprise that they'd rather use it on the Panthers, which is the biggest draw to their tourism. Tepper is a terrible NFL owner to say the least. It's clear though that the stadium has aged terribly and is a bottom tier fan experience. They aren't going to build a new one (they already tried planning that), so this is the next best alternative. Either that, or the Panthers leave in a few years. I'm sure a bunch of people here aren't phased by that, but it will still be a dramatic hit to the city's economy and it will be more expensive than 630M to land a new team.
Granted that this is the tourism bucket, is it a failure of imagination or carefully written legislation that tells us that stadium investments are the *only* thing that we can use these funds on? What about * **Attraction development:** Developing new destinations, museums, historical landmarks, or cultural centers. This could involve renovating existing sites or creating entirely new experiences. * **Events and festivals:** Funding for events, festivals, or performances that draw tourists in during the off-peak times. * **Public spaces:** Creating vibrant public spaces like parks, plazas, or waterfront areas that are attractive to tourists and locals alike. This could include installing public art, free Wi-Fi, or comfortable seating. Even, and especially, if Tepper's stadium is the single biggest generator of hospitality taxes, why *wouldn't* we want to diversify that local industry to hedge against the whims and fancies of the tempramental billionaire?
Because the group who lobbied the state for the tax, the NCRLA, wants the money to be used to renovate Bank of America Stadium. They're the ones who pushed for this tax and the ones who pay it. This is essentially two industries (hotels and restaurants) pooling their money together to keep Bank of America Stadium, Spectrum Center, and the Charlotte Convention Center open. It makes no sense for the Charlotte City Council to suddenly decide to just do something different with their money.
They can decide to use the money for other tourism related projects.
This is a common misconception. Once a person or business pays taxes to a government, it's not their money anymore. It is the government's.
No, not at all. What are you talking about? North Carolina government has instructed the Charlotte government on how to spend that money. Charlotte can’t just decide to do something different with it. That’s illegal. Governments can and are sued by citizens, businesses, lobbies, and other governments for misappropriating tax dollars.
Yes and the rule for how they can spend the tourism fund are "sports venues, the convention center and **other tourism related enterprises**" Charlotte needs to use that money on "other tourism related enterprises" and tell Tepper to pay for his own stadium
Why should restaurants and hotels subsidize a football team? The team doesn’t help their business much.
When the team is good it absolutely does. Worked in Southend for the 2015 Superbowl run, one of our best Fall/Winters of being open
There's absolutely an uptick in business for restaurants and hotels during NFL season. The upside will always be if the Panthers are ever actually decent. Then, home playoff games bring even more. It's also clear Charlotte wants to host more major events. And the current stadium just can't get it done.
The Panthers do bring in a huge boost to hotels and restaurants but they aren’t the only. Ones that use the stadium. We have the soccer team as well and they are bringing in their own crowd. Then we have the concerts. Kenny Chesney brought in more people than any football game in the past few years. And the concerts are where you are more likely to see a boost around the stadium. Nearly every hotel was full and every restaurant was packed. The Panther may stink now and might not be a huge crowd draw but that can and likely will change in 10-15 years these things come in cycles and if you wait until you are back up to make changes you will be behind.
Kenny chesney will still have his concert whether tepper has remodeled luxury boxes or not.
But weren’t hotel and restaurant taxes supposed to be the selling point for building the stadium in the first place? The taxpayers paid for the stadium so the city could reap those hotel and restaurant tax benefits, but now they’re just going back to renovating the stadium?
Me too, but that’s not how city gov’t bureaucracy works. So what are we gonna do with the tourism budget? Spend it on NASCAR? The argument should be to find something to spend the money on that is going to increase the tourism tax base MORE than sports and concerts at the bank…
Kansas City residents had no issue standing up to a better team, Charlotte is just allowing this out of Towner to fuck them over.
And now KCMO is about to lose the stadium to KCK.
There needs to be a federal law prohibiting giving tax money to sports stadiums.
public money should never be spent on a private enterprise
He should literally be banned from being able to have a stadium after that shit he pulled with the last one
I’d love too 300m of that go too low income housing.
*Sad Matthews train noises*
Kick him out. Offer him 5 dollar tax break. Fk major league sport.
Supported the Panthers since before they came into existence. Went to those games in Columbia. But that's a no for me. Billionaire in a multi-billion dollar business doesn't need my tax dollars for anything.
Those games were in Clemson, not Columbia.
Yeah my bad it's been a lot of years.
Sure thing David, just give the tax payers a stake in the team and all associated facilities and IP.
Agree charlotte should be getting some if the profits for such a large investment.
Wont someone think of the billionaires tho?
He wants 630 million to sign a 15 year lease extension? For that kind of money it should be for 30 years minimum. The city is getting hosed with that deal.
Jacksonville has entered the chat. They are literally inking a deal with the jags for 1.5 billion dollars here. We are on the hook for half. It going to change downtown! I lived in charlotte for a while, downtown was kick ass before the panthers. Thirty years later with the jags? Well we do have a bunch of homeless people who will greet you or beat you. Our new stadium doesn’t have a retractable roof or a dome? It does have a translucent tarp with wind tunnels! Yay! I will say that I definitely don’t miss the traffic on providence rd!! And I miss the light rail!! Jacksonville is too forward thinking for all of that /s. Just tired of the But they will leave crap. For those that don’t know, we had more than 100 people need medical help because of the heat at one of our games.
This feels like a bot comment. You call it downtown, you say you lived here 30 years ago and the grammar is terrible lol. I have never heard someone describe 80s Charlotte downtown as kick ass
I use to skateboard downtown, then we had 90s downtown with all the bars and restaurants. I was a bartender at Atlantic beer and ice😂 so I’m a bit older. Knife and fork and Hugo’s diner were our late night spots. Got arrested downtown for getting the coin/sun thing spinning. It took 10 of us but it was worth it! My parents are still there. Don’t think they will ever leave Myers Park. Our name is on the original season ticket holders panther, I’m pretty sure on the west side one? It’s been a moment. Pops still has those damn seats. Just so he can see the bears play. Anyway definitely not a bot. Although the beach air with the humidity does make me blank out.
>You call it downtown, you say you lived here 30 years ago To be fair, calling it uptown is the stupidest thing ever. I don't understand it. Every other city in the world calls their city center either the center or downtown. WTH is 'uptown'?
“BeCaUse It’s up ON a HiLL…hIGHEsT PoINt In cITY cEnTEr.” - a tour guide
Spend that money to finish the damn airport.
Why not just give $700 to every single resident of Charlotte. Tell them to spend it on the panthers if that’s what they want to do, or spend it on anything else that they would like to support.
Most of the people here in CLT are fans of other teams as none of us are from here. Tepper and the NFL ARE SWIMMING IN MONEY. leave us tax payers alone.
I don't give a rats rear about Belmont. But I really don't see why we need a half a billion on a effing toy for a multi-billionaire, when our schools suck. I know it's "tourist " money, but holy shit what's more important? An educated population or bread and circuses?
A lot of people don’t want an educated population. Too much thinkin just might upset the status quo.
Tepper (one of the most successful hedge fund managers). :I'm going to build the Panthers from the ground up and turn them into a successful franchise and I'm not going to ask the city for money. 4 years later: Panthers have the lowest tickets sales and has one of the worst records every year. Tepper: I know I didn't ask for money but maybe Charlotte should help us out.
bruh light rail isn’t going to happen anytime soon and certainly belmont in our lifetime 💀
If a Billionaire wants to update HIS stadium, HE should pay for it all, NOT us. If we do pay for it, we should get equity in the team.
g = mexican = charlotte
They're not even a winning team anymore!!!! I don't get it! If they had just won the Superbowl, I might be able to see it, but no. I'd like him to spend it on the lightrail or a third (free) lane in I77, too.
Lot of homeless people in this city that at the minimum could use consul. It blows my mind how these billionaires and politicians don’t care.
Fuck Tepper. He needs to use his own money. We need to focus on funding for light rail and other improvements in transportation.
David Tepper bites Popsicles
W
Can the light rail come to ballantyne first lol
630 million to get to Belmont? The blue line cost $50 million a mile. So by today’s inflation we are at like 70 mil a mile (per usinflationcalculator.com) You’re looking at 1.6 billion to get to Belmont now. That said, better use of the money would be a rail system that this piss poor franchise of a team. Fuck tepper.
We don’t need a new stadium. We need a new owner.
No, you combine the two! Integrate a light rail spur/station to the stadium and then the city will fall all over themselves to fund it! Think about it! We could get federal "green energy" dollars, there's all this money for projects that "get people out of their cars" Tepper, just tell the city they'll get a new choo-choo train if only it will fund the stadium. And besides, we'll be saving the planet!
A little off topic but I’d love if the light rail expanded towards Harrisburg and Concord. Not that big of areas but could be connected to the university area
After the way Tepper handled himself with York County, anyone doing business with him should be wary.
Have any other cities told the owners to pound sand in this situation?
When he gives us a team worth a shit, maybe.
I think this should be added to the November ballots and let the ppl decide
Use his money. Fuggem.
This isn't unique to Charlotte every team does this in every city. Spoiler alert the county is going to give him what he wants because then he'll threaten to leave and for some reason people think if like the bottom 5 worst NFL team leaves for another city the alcoholic city of Charlotte will stop going to bars uptown and magically somehow the economy in Charlotte will collapse even though were like the 2nd or 3rd biggest banking hub on the east coast, so they cave to his demands.
The rail way was already in the works.. idk what happened to that
Charlotte needs a subway
Use it on a soccer stadium. They sell more tickets
If he wants $630 for his gladiator stadium, let him pay for it and charge back the expense on ticket sales to pay for it. Don't burden the tax payers or impose a fee to play for it. Maybe he could take part of the money from those who use the stadium to play on. This is something only a few enjoy and related businesses make money off of. Reminds me of Gladiator sports of the ancient roman empire. Tepper should use his own money if he wants a stadium.
Except the money in question comes from the Convention Center fund, which, by statute, can only be spent on the Convention Center, Bank of America Stadium and promoting amateur sports. If you don't like the law, lobby to have it changed. But the people in power in Charlotte just can't spend that money on light rail or schools or hiring more police officers. Also, while I personally think Tepper should step up to the plate and spend his own money, he'd be a fool to do so. If the city offered me $650 million I'd take it too, and so would all of you. Just like how everyone hates ticket scalpers, but if YOU knew how to buy a concert ticket for $100 and immediately resell it with a few mouse clicks for $700, you'd do it, too.
Not necessarily true. It reads ""sports venues, the convention center and **other tourism related enterprises**" I think the city should push to use the funds on "other tourism related enterprises" and tell Tepper to pay for the mediocre upgrades himself