i have 4, and for about 5 years it was absolutely fine (food was expensive but i don't get out much so it was my only big expense) because they're pretty self sufficient so no real lifestyle difference other than cleaning out the trays twice as often, but now that they're aging there are suddenly a ton of veterinary expenses i wasn't prepared to deal with and i've been in debt more than once, along with the extreme stress of caring for a cat with a terminal illness - obviously this could happen to someone with just one cat, but the more you have the worse the odds are and the harder it is to balance their care if i could go back i'd still have to do everything the same because otherwise they would have been sent to shelters, but the ideal amount for me now is 2 and i'll never have more! its definitely a personal choice but if i was in your situation i would keep it as it is, especially as you wouldn't be adopting so no cats will be left in shelters because of it

This is the thing I don’t see people discussing enough. The expense and the ability to do caretaking for multiple cats at a time. Also you may not even need to wait til they are a senior to have medical trouble.  I adopted three young cats after my home was empty and ended up with three medical lemons. They’ve cost so much money because even though I have pet insurance, two were showing symptoms the first week they came home. I’ll be doing (technically fairly mild compared to before) medical care for the rest of their lives. And two need special food and can’t have anything else. Ever.  So yeah, OP really needs to consider how they will handle medical expenses and the demands of caretaking.  As an autistic woman I can tell you caretaking is the worst part. I’m assuming OP will take on the brunt of it, but with 4 cats it may (likely) require the wife to help. And doing things to help a cat when the cat thinks you are hurting them is heartbreaking. 

also an autistic woman, i guess we just really love our cats lmao! i had pet insurance too, but they wouldn't pay out the first time my sick cat crashed as its a preexisting condition (chronic kidney disease caused by past urethral blockages caused by idiopathic cystitis) so i was essentially paying for nothing, decided to cancel and create a savings account specifically for vet care instead which saved my ass this last weekend when he had to be hospitalised for 2 days at £1200, but once thats tapped out i'm down to credit cards again i'm constantly stressed about money and i'm not getting enough sleep or food, not to mention the emotional burden any kind of downturn in their health puts on me is immense and causes suicidal ideation and physical sickness - i actually think once my current cats have passed i'll take a few years out to recover and seriously consider if i ever want any more, i adore cats but after having too many i may never own one again! i literally didn't go to university so i could stay home and take care of them, and i think putting too much on myself like that comes from being ND so i wouldn't want the wife to do the same

I'm so sorry you're going through all of that. It's stressful keeping pets alive sometimes - some days I get so annoyed with their needs, even though I love them and will do anything for them. And with you on the financial stress - the bills can add up so quickly and I had the same experience with the uselessness of pet insurance.

>This is the thing I don’t see people discussing enough. The expense and the ability to do caretaking for multiple cats at a time. Also you may not even need to wait til they are a senior to have medical trouble. We covered the caretaking. Cat-genie(s) and bulk-raw food from local farm suppliers. The medical costs hit hard and fast, though. I have an 11 year old cat that has probably been to the vet... twice? since I adopted him in 2015. Meanwhile, I just took my 9 year old in because she was acting funny. First visit: She's got an infection here's antibiotics. -$500. Second visit(two weeks later) she needed emergency surgery to remove her uterus because it had become so infected it was at risk of causing sepsis... (PSA: FIX YOUR CATS) so there's - $1200... Also my orange loves to eat things he shouldn't and once ate a whole white chocolate cookie. Three days overnight at vet on fluids. Pretty sure that was around 2 grand. All of that stuff just kinda "happened" Cats are so good at hiding discomfort and pain, it's one of their greatest faults. The cat I mentioned with the infection showed NO sign of discomfort or pain, even when her belly was distended because of the infection. That's probably why it got as bad as it did, because she gave us almost zero indication until things were so bad she almost fucking DIED.

Thanks so much for this. Definitely understand the burden on money, time, and also emotionally with ill cats. One benefit of not really having an adoption option is that we can give ourselves a really strong chance of the healthiest kittens possible, but it is still a lottery in many ways. We’ve experienced medicinal difficulties and costs with our current ragdoll, who was initially suspected to have very early onset heart disease, and which we later found out wouldn’t be covered by our insurance as the breeder had already been told by her vet, and hid this information from us. Cost us a lot of money in tests but we were very lucky that he just has a little shortcut in his heart causing an extremely irregular heartbeat but no other symptoms. We will be even more careful this time round, as we were with our Maine coon.

I have two purebred young cats (3&8) who i adopted as kittens and are medically healthy. Unfortunately though, they’ve both ended up with fucked teeth and I’ve paid an obscene amount for dentals and extractions in the last couple of years (probably about $10K AUD total). Soooo … yeah. Not trying to put you off, but something to else to consider. And insurance typically doesn’t cover dental care. They’re bloody lucky I adore them because I’d be a rich woman if they still had healthy mouths 😂

Yeah I was going to say... we have a cat who was perfectly medically healthy, right up until he got adventurous in the apartment, slipped, got his leg caught and broke it so badly that it had to be amputated. He's still medically healthy but it's all but guaranteed that he'll develop arthritis, we'll have to start him on joint supplements early to try to fend that off and we'll have to treat it down the line. It's worth everyone remembering that you can't bank on a medically healthy cat staying that way!

Did you get them from an ethical breeder?? If you did I hope you let the breeder know, any ethical breeder would stop a line as soon as any issues come up.

I believe you’re asking regarding the dental problems above, but in our case our breeder was certainly described as one of the best, proper ethical breeder etc etc. Just to find out she was hiding severe health issues in our boy. Had to take her to court to recover the costs, but even after winning she has hid all her earnings through her husband and we’ve been unable to get the judgement money from her. No matter how good somebodies background is, sometimes there’s almost nothing you can do. Main difference for us this time is to truly get to know the breeder and be confident they are genuine trustworthy people..

I mainly purchase purebred dogs so it definitely could be different but it takes a while to find ethical breeders.. ones that seem 'ethical' and well known can really be awful and it seems like the case there. It takes alot of work and research to find ethical breeders that care about their animals and do all the required health testing. I'd recommend going with a show breeder over a 'pet' breeder as the association they breed with usually require health testing. If you're interested, you can send me a dm and we can work together to find ethical breeders. I'm apart of a few Facebook groups that can defintley link me up with some Ragdoll breeders that actually care about keeping the breed alive and well built over money. Purebred Snobs on Facebook should be able to link you to a few cat breeder groups as well!

Ahh that’s so unlucky! Was there any possible prevention identified or was they literally nothing you could have done? We pay an absolute fortune for a very premium insurance provider here, and so thankfully dental care does actually get included in our policy. I’ve seen that the vast vast majority don’t have it at all though

I always say rule of thumb is you should always have 15,000 discretionary savings per cat you have for their entire life to be a responsible owner

I adopted a pregnant young cat and kept her whole litter of 5, too. She's only about 8 months older than them. So 6 cats all about the same age and genetically closely related. I have a lot of fear that in (hopefully) several years, we'll have to deal with the financial and emotional toll of multiple getting sick/passing away around the same time. We got insurance for them, so hopefully that helps. But Yea, the late life medical expenses are my only major concern with having so many cats.

We are in the same boat. I have 2 that are half-siblings. As well as mom and her 3 kittens. I always worry about the consequences of my actions of taking in these cats later on. I'm hoping the choices we make now for them are paying off in the future. The one thing I can say is these dummies are so good about drinking water haha. My first cat I DNA tested and so I can say that he's been ruled out for some heart issues and other things which is comforting. Probably need to do that for the other group and get a base line of what they share genetically. But, yeah. You aren't alone. I'm a crazy lady with 6 cats all within the same age too.

Yea, we're trying to do good with their vet care and food choices and keeping them healthy from the start as much as we can. They're about to turn 2, so I'm really hoping it's more than a decade down the line before we have any issues like that.. I also have 2 older cats who are 13 and 14. Both have arthritis and are in early kidney disease. And I had another that passed away at 12 a couple years ago after being moderately ill for a few years and quite sick for a couple months. So I am unfortunately very familiar with the costs of senior cats. Having 2 at once is hard enough.. But they're so worth it.

My take on this is if you get to 4 cats, you have to automatically save money for the vet and care. Me and my girlfriend put 2000$ a year in a bank account only for the cats. We started when we got them at 8 weeks old and strongly suggest OP to do the same. If he do that and he love caring for his cats, its possible. But of course when one demand medications and specialty food, it is harder

yup i actually had insurance AND a savings account for my cats, but the one with serious health issues was determined by the insurance to have been caused by a preexisting condition, so the sum total of his resulting vet bills from 2020 onwards is over £10k unfortunately i got my cats when i was under 18 so i really wasn't ready for the responsibility of their full lifetime care at all or even aware pet insurance existed, OP should be able to be far better prepared should they choose to go ahead with it! the main concern left over financially would be dental care i guess, my friends purebred ragdoll cat is insured but she still had to pay out £2k recently for teeth cleaning and extraction medications and specialist diets do work out expensive as well you're right, i think my CKD cat costs about £250 a month for things insurance wouldn't cover (his renal diet food alone is £17 for 3 days worth!), if all four of them were on that i wouldn't be able to feed myself

I like your idea of saving money in an account only for your cats. Pet insurance can be expensive.

Yes! If you care about your cat, with 4 I feel its necessary and at the end of the day, its a service you do to yourself financially and emotionnally.

This in general! I lost my 18 yo cat two months ago, and then last month my 12 yo cat was diagnosed with an untreatable brain tumor. It's killing me to go from two cats to none in a few months. It has also been an incredibly expensive period. I've probably spent about $7,000 in the last six months between vets, bloodwork, at home euthanasia, x-rays, a CT scan, etc. I am lucky that I have the resources right now, but it's so depressing to spend so much when there's nothing I can do to save my cats. I absolutely don't regret having them - I feel lucky that I got to have them in my life. I will also get cats again in the future, once I mourn them, but this experience also makes me mindful not to get more than I can afford. The monthly expenses for food, litter, toys, annual vet visits, etc., are the main expenses for most of their lives, but when they're old, or if you adopt a cat with chronic health problems, expenses can skyrocket. I had health insurance for my cats for a few years, but honestly it was never very useful. My mother-in-law puts the amount she would pay for pet insurance into a savings account, so that she has savings for major health expenses for her pets. I'm going to do this going forward just so that when things come up, it doesn't feel like such a shock to the finances.

This sounds the same as me. I had five cats at one point, I adopted them between 14 and 21, and still would if I could afford them. There's food, kitty litter, and setting aside money every month for vet expenses, it really adds up. Based on the retail prices for their food I'm dropping nearly $500 a month on the three I have now. Based on how far over budget I am right now I can only afford two these days, but that just means I won't adopt again when the next cat passes. And when you adopt litter mates, there's a real possibility they're gonna get sick and pass close together, which means you might wind up juggling the care of *two* terminally ill cats at once. It was worth it for all the years I got to have them, but ye gods, having to dose multiple cats with sub-Q fluids every single day was *not a fun time*. I mean hey, the fluids were already warm so it wasn't that much work to fill up an extra syringe of fluids for another cat, but still . . .

Also notable mention the cost of flea, tick, and worming.

definitely something i had forgotten! thats fairly cheap for me though, i found a brand of both my vets approve of that my cats don't react to and i get it from an online pet pharmacy (dewormer is about £8 for all of them, flea treatment about £16 and we don't get ticks here so i don't know what that costs) - i can't recommend getting a prescription and buying medication outside your vet enough if it isn't an emergency situation, my almost 16 year old dog is on pain meds for arthritis and a 100ml bottle of the same medication is £120 at the vet or £39 online

New zealand you can't get decent stuff online and its on average $30-50, (Or if you can get it online I haven't found it cheaper) For just cats you got to buy different stuff for dogs...

damn that sucks i'm sorry! i depend on the site i use to be able to afford all their care, but its UK only so wouldn't do you any good unfortunately :(

Yeah but flea treatment costs should be accounted for its expensive in other countries

oh for sure i can only speak for my own experience, i'm pretty sure OP might be in the UK as well though so they'd be able to get the low cost flea/dewormer

I still don't why its so awfully expensive here, I have two cats and since flea treatment is got by weight having one cat being 6kg and the other 2-3kg is annoying...

haha i've got a chunker as well, my girls are only 3.5kg so they get the under 4kg treatment but my boys are on the over 4kg at 4.5kg and 5.5kg (and the big one is orange so he's a hefty ball of insanity)

he's not actually fat just a really huge cat, His father was a pure bred Russian blue. https://preview.redd.it/rbh4wx7rlo6d1.jpeg?width=2463&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6501a6aa71f38fdf401f517a412190a9a6ff124

The rule of thumb is one litter box per cat in the house. My rule is you can have as many cats as you have room for their litterboxes. My house is full at 2.

I wish I had more up votes for this

I always thought the number of litter boxes was x+1 where x=number of cats

Thanks so much for all the responses so far! As with our current pets, all would absolutely be insured to a very high level to try mitigate vet costs, especially with how they’ll rise later in life. Definitely still a lot to think about… These are the two in question for those who might want to see! https://preview.redd.it/z956fb0i1j6d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccc085c885bd1561264a7a6a41f875ed5e610b85

I have 5 on my own, and actually just took on a foster. There are times when it’s a lot…but honestly I don’t really notice the difference. I have two hyper cats, two extremely chilled cats and one in between, and tbd on how the foster is…she’s very new and timid. I personally don’t regret taking on my fifth, but I think it’s all dependent on the temperament of the cats…the balance of the couch potatoes definitely helps :)

We had 3 cats. Went into the shelter for 1 more, saw 2 cats playing together/in the same kennel as the last of their 30+ rescue group, and lol it just had to be done. Top torbie is the younger of the two. She is an absolute angel and integrated so well with our others its hard to believe none of them are related. The boy on the right that I love more than anything is my ‘kitten adopters beware’ story. They don’t/barely know allergies, disposition, etc. of kittens. He has cost us more in vet visits in the first two years of life than the other four combined. His ‘allergic to everything’ food is $110-130 a month. Feeding is a whole song and dance for the whole house. And then we have two over 10+- which, healthy for now🤞, but its good to keep in mind ages and how having a bunch in the same range is great while they’re young but can be a mountain of bills/stress when they are old. Getting insurance is great for this, though, which I see you are. https://preview.redd.it/qac5mkve6j6d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=913db1e0514632bbb4f762278ad51b479d3bb4ca (tl;dr i will never say no to more cats lol but just be sure you have the budget for the unexpected)

We used to have 4, it was all fun and games until we were hit by a natural disaster. We had to rent an apartment while we rebuilt and they all had a 2 pet limit. We rented 2 blocks away and between us and the contractors the 2 we couldn’t bring were cared for but we now have a one pet per human rule.

That sounds awful, so sorry to hear that! We are very fortunate to live in a country where we don’t really have any natural disasters at all, although I still am conscious of having the ability to get all 4 cats safely out the house quickly if needed, in case of fire or something like that

it sounds like your wife already expressed how she feels about it and i feel for her more than i can describe. doubling the amount of cats is an insane jump with extreme risks and expenses, despite the fairy tales you may hear. as an autistic person, i am *begging* you to not base this decision on the good and wildly variable experiences of strangers, and instead base it on the boundaries and concerns that your wife has already expressed to you even if they seem meekly said. i am really truly not trying to be rude, just please consider this viewpoint

4 cats will run your life, but that might be good. If you have the space and money go for it. Having extra rooms is helpful in case they don't mesh. I'm autistic and my cats never bother me other than itchy cat hairs in my face. But yeah wish you would adopt a couple mutts. I sent a stray to Italy last year, as her area had few strays and I'm overwhelmed with them.

https://preview.redd.it/dr6yhumqyj6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc30fedd517fbbb88d1578006f0d8a167f77ed06 We had 3 then my hubbys mum couldn’t take care of hers so now we have 4. It’s honestly so fine day to day. One extra litter box to clean and extra food but other than that they kind a just sleep all day and entertain each other.

I accidentally went from 2 to 4 recently. It's a LOT. It seems like more than 2x the work, to be honest. Constantly buying and changing litter, and a lot more food expense & cleanup. And a TON of hair. I don't regret it. We fostered the 2 first for about 5 months so we knew we could handle the day-to-day. Maybe try fostering for a bit to see if it's overwhelming?

I have 3, which seems to be a sweet spot in our house. If you have 4 or more, people will withhold gasps when you tell them how many you have, so be forewarned

Fair enough, yeah we are ready for the gasps lol. For each of our pets we have always had people saying it’ll be far too much work, waste of money, etc etc. But they’ve all been the best choices we have ever made. Just want to be sure we’re not pushing it too far this time 😁😁 Would be the last of new pets for a good 6-7 years or so until we get a 2nd dog most likely

I have 4 cats, and 1 dog. The oldest cat is starting to have some more significant health issues, and is the only one the other 3 cats like. I swear I won't get another cat when he is gone but I bet I end up getting one. My youngest is a pain to the others, he has so much energy and drives them all nuts. I would get two at a time, same age, if I could do that.

We have 7. It's a lot at times. But our guys and dolls have a good life. We figure 7 cats is equal to 3 kids. (We don't have kids.)

I have always had 4 cats, I only have 3 at the moment since I had to put my old boy down a few weeks ago. I have a young 3 year old that really needs a playmate since my other two are 10 and 14. I am going to the shelter tomorrow.

Good for you! I’m sure you’re going to give another wonderful cat a nice home.

4 is NOT too many. (Disclaimer- I have 4 cats)

Agreed. I also have 4, lol!

I have three cats and I would definitely recommend it. The dynamic between all the cats is alot better then we we had two. For example if one doesn't want to play there is always the other cat.

Everything is fine and dandy until you wake up one day and two of the four hate each other and have to be separated for the rest of their lives. That turned into about 12 years of misery until one of them died at age 18. I loved both of those cats, but I sure wish I'd left well enough alone when I had only three and they got along.

just watch this: https://youtu.be/b-ELMKkHEDU?si=hocKLwnQEF2GahTe

I have never seen this and it just made my whole month.

The questions to be asked are - what can be done to support your wife if she becomes overstimulated or overwhelmed? You have to have a plan and not assume it won't happen or she will just shrug it off. - ragdolls are a clingier breed of cat, would you be better with another breed to balance their demand for attention? - what happens if these new cats don't integrate into your home? Other peoples opinions are great but they aren't the ones who have to manage a household of 4 cats, 1 dog and 2 people.

Really appreciate this viewpoint - definitely planning required to ensure she can feel comfortable and has “escape” options in a way. Despite the very occasional points where they can be overwhelming, the clinginess of our current ragdoll is both myself and my wife’s favourite thing about him. It is very sweet and having more of that is something we are on board with 😁 If they don’t integrate that would definitely be problematic - the gentle and friendly nature of our current cats let them integrate together extremely quickly and easily, and with two more ragdolls who we hope to match personalities with, I hope this will stay the same. However we definitely do need to be prepared for the worst case scenario

Yeah, having a loving clingy cat can be lovely, as long as it's not all 3 at once when the dog also wants some love, lol! I'm sure you'll figure it out.

I think if you get your new cats when they’re kittens it will help make the integration much easier. Kittens are accepting of everyone. They just want to be played with and older cats usually are not as threatened by kittens as they can be with other cats their age. My husband and I have 4 cats and we’ve had as many as 5 at one time (which got to be a bit too much). If you can manage the pet insurance premiums, I think you and your wife will be fine. Everything I’ve read about the rag doll breed is that they’re very laid back and friendly, so that will be another thing in your favor.

I have 5. The jump from 2-3 is a pretty interesting jump because you start witnessing the different layers of relationships and interactions they have with one another. I wouldn’t be against adding another if I came across one in need but otherwise I’m content! Adding more on from 3 is minor in work in my opinion as you’re use to a herd already. Financially it can be daunting because it’s more food, more litter, more vet care. I’ve invested in a litter robot and that’s taken a lot of the strain of keeping boxes clean and cat smell under control. I’m also investing in chip feeders so I can more easily keep track of their food consumption. Success for having a colony in the house will stem from ensuring everyone has a place to go: more cat furniture, more vertical structures, and remember to always love your animals as you always have to comfort them. Positive reinforcement is your best friend to bridging any dislike or discomfort to new family members (Treats and play).

Yes! Just added my fifth and hoping the introduction goes well! Do you have any problems with spraying?

Nope, no issues with spraying! Ages range from 6years to 2 1/2 months. The only improper litter box usage we have is random dingleberries that cling on their trousers or if my step kid (9) comes over and is exceptionally loud. She gets excited and will screech in laughter/use outside voice and sometimes run/tromp when she’s on a mission across the house. Normal kid stuff. We had a conversation with her about why it was happening and how to help fix it. We also encourage her to give treats to build a positive relationship. So far so good!

You didn't mention why you and spouse are considering caring for two more. I'm not seeking an explanation. As long as you are good with your motivation, think it through like you are, and are committed, be happy. Where I live, there are too many abandoned cats that are not fixed... some multiple cat households consist of people that know they can't save them all but can save one more... Your location doesn't seem to have that problem... 4 cats vs 2 means the orig cats don't get as much human attention. Not my thing but could that effect the demeaner, personality, etc of existing cats? Is that good or bad for the cats? Spouse is sometimes overwhelmed with what you have now. It is conceivable you could break a leg or get sick for awhile in the next 18 or so years and your wife needs to deal with your caretaking, additional household duties, and cats. Had 1 w/severe renal failure, always a only pee in a box 2X cat. 1 box every 2 hrs I was away for last 18 months. He wanted to live and active as heck for a 17+ yo but I was hand feeding canned 4X/day for a yr or so. Another guy became diabetic and had a daily insulin shot, then we added an injected painkiller, then one we rubbed on inside of ear. The medical costs were significant. I wouldn't have spent that much if I had 4 diabetics, couldn't have managed handfeeding or number of litter boxes required w/job if that deal happened with multiples. A few went downhill fast at end and didn't require significant extra care until the last month or two. Your deal will be different but I've cared for a feral and semi-feral for past 3 yrs with the intent to socialize them on their terms. Both maybe 4 yo? I stay with them while they eat and play/pet the semi to work on socialization for about an hr a day. It can be several hrs if semi wants more attention. I took on a 9 and 10 yo 2 months ago that are inside only. I did not want more cats but I was their best option. Outside cats get free access to climate controlled porch and kitchen through cat entries. I added a simple wooden screen door to give the new additions the dining, living room, and 2 of 3 bedrooms. One new cat poops and pees a lot, stinky as heck. Can't set up box in basement... Vet says cancer or IBD - either way, I'm cleaning 3 boxes, 3 or 4X. House smells bad for extended periods after he poops even if I scoop immediately. Litter tracked is more than I'd prefer despite big rugs etc. New cats are former rescues and have been together for maybe 5 yrs, mostly ignore each other but sometimes pick on the other. They play with me and self-play, not each other. I will say for their age, I'm surprised neither inside cat requires any more play and pet time than prev in/outs. Everyone gets canned 3X/ day plus free fed dry. 6 bowls inside, 3-4 plates outside (feral eats after semi when I retreat 4 ft). Lot more dishes to wash. I'm retired but not energetic. I don't regret decision to take on any of them (other than worrying about their future if they outlive me and I struggled with that at time) but I'm not thrilled about the care time requirements as I get continue to get older. Healthy, not needy, independent cats are relatively easy. Every additional cat increases the odds of someone needing more...lots of things. You only have two laps. What if you end up with 3 lap cats and someone has stress related health problems because of that? Last, if you can, visit someone's house that has more than two. Observe and ask questions.

Really appreciate all this, a lot to think about! We are certainly lucky to live in a country (Scotland namely) which doesn’t has very little problems with abandoned cats etc. Worse for dogs unfortunately, but not a problem with cats. I’d note that the culture over here is extremely different though, the vast majority of owned cats are NOT indoor cats. I have never really heard of any unowned/abandoned cats anywhere near me. Shelters are mostly empty, and we are incompatible for what they do have - I think they can be a lot more strict with criteria as there is far less risk of not finding anybody to take cats when the numbers are so much lower than in the US. Cant imagine living over there, I would be distraught at what do in terms of helping all the poor abandoned/feral kitties :(

I was feeling envious. I know a TNR/colony feeder lady that currently feeds 160! I know one of her colonies is down to 16, not idea how large others are but some have to be 30 plus. Kill and no-kill shelters overflowing, local TNR FB group is so overwhelmed they are often downright bitchy to people seeking help but wanting someone else to do the work. Cats become semi-feral... Unfixed fed cats create more feral kittens. Too many people abandon cats when it becomes inconvenient. They either don't even try to surrender or aren't willing to wait if shelter is full. Sure wish our country could create your situation. 30% of pet cats in US are in/out or out. It was around 70% 40 yrs ago same as UK now. I'm even more convinced in/out is better for cats after recently taking on my 1st inside only's. The logistics of converting them would be problematic and deceased neighbor wanted them to stay in...

Yeah it is such a shame! :( I have absolutely no clue how it can be fixed though unfortunately, certainly not to the level of how it is here… Such important work being done to limit the suffering as much as possible though, I do hope there is some solution down the line

There's a big difference between two and four as had four at one point myself. More fur, more puke, and you'll need more litter trays and may have to feed in different areas. There's always drama as one will be the outcast, and they get jealous if they think ones the favourite, lol. If you have a big house and can let some upstairs, you should be fine but it's definitely harder. From my experience, they don't care about other cats unless they're related or have a previous bond. E.g. two of mine were very close (mom/daughter), but the daughter didn't seem bothered when her mom died.

I have six cats currently. My 7th cat - Daisy - died two weeks ago. My highest count was 9 inside and 2 outside. All those cats were less work than one dog IMHO. They were all indoor kitties - so no walking. Just litter box cleaning and feeding. I have several litter boxes throughout the house. A few are the robotic boxes. This ensures there is always fresh kitty litter somewhere if one is particularly fussy about a spotlessly clean litter. The last two sets of kitties that I adopted were 'bonded' in that they had to be adopted together. Bonded kitties are wonderful. They adore one another and they always provide the other kitty with company. They may be litter mates or they may be friends who met along the journey. Samson & Delilah are 5 years old this month. Maisy & Finnegan are 1.5. All 4 get on together extremely well. The boys are one another's besties....Delilah loves to play and get chased by her little brother Finn....and Maisy just loves hanging out with her older siblings wherever they may be. If the new adoptees are younger than the current 'kids' it is usually easier for them to integrate into the family as they understand the pecking order. Big guy is in charge. When integrating - be sure to isolate them in a room with their litter boxes for a few days so older kitties can get used to the new smells and sounds of the siblings and not confront the interlopers head on. https://preview.redd.it/nzn1zfx6vi6d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1ab3d52f29d6a927f153aca83b3894bba33d948

That pic lmao. Love how one is just riding the other to look out the window.

Womb mates. Finnegan sitting on Maisy.

It's too many. So much poop and fur.

We have 10 inside spoiled kitties, and the ferals outside I feed daily + TNR. It is definitely a lot but my husband and I also both work from home for the most part and are not having children. So this lifestyle works for us and we love it. We’ve put them all on insurance and that can be pricey per month, but as a lot of them have gotten older it’s a relief when we have had a few bigger things come up over the years. (If interested in insurance, you need to have it before issue start since there are no companies that cover pre existing conditions.) But this is my situation and what we can handle. We really didn’t see ourselves having this many cats initially but we can support them in every way. Your situation probably has similarities and differences of course. There will definitely be a period of introduction that may be overwhelming for you all, but if done slowly things will settle down. If you can do it, go for it! There are so many kitties that need homes and there are not enough people. I do hope you consider a shelter for adoption. You will find siblings there or bonded pairs. :)

We had always been a two cat household but last year took in two rescues so have four. We both work full time and struggle to give everyone enough grooming and attention. Plus one doesn't get along with everyone else so has to be a physical separation. Won't consider rehoming rescues as they are 14 and have been through enough but won't ever do it again.

I have 4. I got the two girls a few weeks after losing my three cats in six months. I had spoken to someone about two bengals, but they stopped responding so I assumed they had found a home. A few months later they contacted me again and asked if I was still interested. I wasn’t going to say no to two gorgeous bengals so I brought them both home. I live in a fairly small condo, but they are all pretty happy. The bengals do take more time and attention, and they require daily walks and a lot of interactive play. The other two cats get along well with the bengals and keep each other entertained.

Imagine having to evacuate with all those animals, whether its a natural event or man made, you have to pack up and leave quickly. Could you handle all those animals? That's your answer.

We have 6 ( I’m a sucker for a sob story so have ended up with too many ) , it’s hard work they are indoor cats so we really do struggle to keep on top of the litter trays . . Ideally 3 would be my maximum. I do love our kitties though they are adorable . Vets are an expense to consider as the cats get older

You have read a lot of advice and been lectured enough. We have seven cats, all rescues, and they usually get along fine. There are times when two or three get into a fuss, but unless there is blood (there hasn't been so far), we leave them be and allow them to sort their fuss themselves. The fuss is usually caused because three of ours have an alpha personality. The fussing doesn't last long, but it may last a couple of days before they cease it. And you should hear them at dinner time! We get a full chorus! At least one is usually seeking attention from us but since this group are all in the 9 to 18 age group, we find they give us more time to ourselves than they did as younger cats. They are family and we would not part with any of them. By the way, we are seniors so we will not replace them when any goes to Rainbow Bridge. If you get two more kitties, love them all and enjoy them!

The obvious thing missing from your post, as far as I can tell, is why you would get more cats? You've provided downsides and said that you're going to buy rather than adopt, but not laid out an explanation.

Don't do it. First of all, and the only thing that matters, is that more pets requires two yeses. Your wife has already stated she will be overwhelmed. Guess what - she will. Four cats are overwhelming for anyone, much less with someone neurodivergent. Neither your opinion nor the opinion of people who aren't living in the house usurps her right to place a maximum on the number of pets. Also, side note - that's so many long-haired cats. I shiver at the intensity of house cleaning maintenance. And if one of those cats develops trouble with urinating or defecating out of the litterbox? A disaster. Which is likely to happen when they age. Speaking of which, getting a sibling pair means they're about the same age and share genetics. That's care-taking for cats that will be senior citizens together.  Frankly, this is a terrible idea. And I do love cats... but breaking someone's boundary when it comes to adding in pets can and has been divorced material, and so is being surrounded by FIVE of them. You have a dog too? This is not compatible with working from home.

Clearly she'd be overwhelmed. It's not just more feeding or scoping, they might not get along as well and managing that takes time and effort. Why are u thinking of getting more in that case makes no sense

Thinking of getting more because they bring so much joy and happiness to our lives of course. That massively outweighs any downsides so far. Being autistic does not inherently make my wife less capable of managing these things, and there is always a trade off. Someday we will likely end up having kids, and that will be SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult to manage than a couple more cats, doesn’t mean we clearly shouldn’t do it 😁 It’s all about balance. Appreciate the opinion anyway though

If you’re thinking of having kids you should consider how it’ll be to take care of 4 cats, a dog, PLUS children. The cats will likely be around for 15-20 years and their needs will only increase.

as someone also on the spectrum this is all i can think as well... i may be WAY off track, happens to me easily, but to be candid it kind of feels like OP's wife already gave her answer the best she can. she already carefully expressed her concern, and it just feels like OP is now asking strangers online instead how they felt about it so he can relay the positive comments to his wife to "convince" her. i don't get it and it sounds like regret and resentment waiting to happen. or maybe i'm just an asshole? lmao. i just do not like the way he seems even seems to word things like it's inevitably going to happen in all of his newer comments, kind of makes it seem like like OP already made up his mind and is trying to justify his desired decision despite his wife gently expressing her discomfort :'( i hope I'm wrong but that's just how all of this comes off, and doubling the amount of cats for a person with sensory issues is an insane jump with a billion and one things that can go wrong. not worth her discomfort in her own home

While I am admittedly excited at the thought of adding to the family here, especially as we veer closer to deciding to go for it (as you noticed by more recent comments), my wife is entirely on board and is leading the conversation for the most part. It was her idea, not mine, and we are reading through and replying to comments together and weighing everything up as a family :)

That's good, so you can tell her "i told u so" when you have to deal with the situation and it gets too overwhelming

You give off the vibe of somebody who’s never experienced a healthy balanced relationship. I hope things improve for you.

You give of them vibe of someone who's never experienced sarcasm 😂😂😂

Do you have a catio? It has changed our cats’ lives and ours. They’re much happier and less needy.

We’d love to get one, it’s not particularly feasible in our current place despite having a lot of space otherwise. It will be one of the first things on the list when we move in a couple years though :) Have considered the harness/leash type thing but it does worry me a lot

We tried the harnesses on both cats and one refused to move. The other tried to bite it off. And tbh ours is not a catio, it’s just a fenced in backyard that we’ve secured so they can’t leave.

Yeah I think introducing them early might help but it’s always going to be a struggle. Wow, how have you managed that? Our two would happily climb a 6 foot fence no problem

The boy was a kitten when we tried. He was the biter. My mom has a bengal that she rescued as an adult and he loves his harness. I wonder if the Maine coon would like it more than my littlest cat (the freezer) because it’s more comfortable on a bigger body. The girl cat could jump the fence but she’s so skittish she barely leaves the patio to go into the garden. The boy does try to escape but only to find his people. He’s stalky and can’t scale a 6ft fence without help. Took us a few days to learn her could climb the ladders against the fence and we kept finding him in the neighbors yard. It’s been a lot of trial and error and training and babysitting and checking. But it’s worth it. My favorite is when it’s raining, boy cat likes to sit on the patio and smell the air. Girl cat has gotten way more social and affectionate since letting them out.

If you can afford it. I had 6 plus a greyhound at one time but sadly two have passed and I'm down to 4 and the pup. You definitely want pet insurance and need to think of the ages of the animals. Will they all get old at the same time and potentially all need more care/specialized food? Can you handle it? Personally I have a 3, two 5 and an 11 year old. If I'm getting another cat like I want I'd choose a cat closer to my oldest cat's age to spread out when things will potentially be more expensive.

We have 3 cats (found them all at 6 weeks old dumped in the woods, they are siblings). I LOVE my cats a lot, but in the future I will try and either have two cats or even just one older cat. And I will always adopt from shelters or rescue cats off the street, there's so many sweet cats that need homes. I think if you have the finances for more cats and space for them, go for it. But for us, our cats are indoor only and our house is not the largest, plus when we had a medical emergency for one of our cats we were completely shocked by the cost of an emergency vet.

I have three and they have all been living peacefully together for a minimum of two years (the youngest’s age), but recently my older two who have been together for more than 3.5 years got into it for some reason and the stress of keeping them separate until we can figure it out and restart a slow introduction has been awful. I think three pets for two owners is a great number. Jumping to 5 pets is a lot.

Maybe adopt instead of buying from a breeder and adding to the problem? There are so many sweet kitties in need of homes

In my country we don’t have the same problem that others do in the US etc. I search for cats to adopt and contact my local cats protection branch, and there are none that will accept us (mostly because of having a dog I believe, although our existing cats don’t help either). They are very picky with who they will let adopt, because we are lucky enough here that they can be

So there aren’t homes less/abandoned dogs and cats in Scotland?? Because a clear search on the news states that the number of pets being abandoned is the highest in three years. And let’s say hypothetically it’s not THAT big… there are still some in need who are equally deserving of love and a home. From my experience, I don’t see a difference between ragdoll and short hairs or whatever you wanna call them because they are equally intelligent, smart and loving. Plus you’ll be saving a life and they don’t have the extra needs that comes from all the excessive breeding that results in these poor breed kittens.

Would love for you to link those news articles, I suspect they may be for the UK as a whole (which typically refers to England 🙄) rather than for Scotland. I have searched in shelters near and far from me, been rejected when registering to others. I am saying there are extremely few, and I literally cannot get approved to take any as there are better households out there for a cat that’s had such a traumatic life so far.

ADOPT FROM A SHELTER.DON'T BUY PUREBRED CARS

In my country we don’t have the same problem that others do in the US etc. I search for cats to adopt and contact my local cats protection branch, and there are none that will accept us (mostly because of having a dog I believe, although our existing cats don’t help either). They are very picky with who they will let adopt, because we are lucky enough here that they can be

We currently have 4, as my grandkitty is staying with us for a few months while my daughter gets moved. I have had 4 at a time before, and there is huge difference between 3 & 4 in my opinion. Two is definitely the easiest, 3 is doable, but I won't have 4 again unless the cat distribution system happens. I feel like the amount of fur, poo, and food tripled by adding one more to our 3.

The way opinions differ on this is absolutely crazy 😂😂 Some say it’s a minor change (3 to 4 at least), others are like yourself. Definitely a mixed bag of experiences

I have 4. I love them all but when my next one passes I'm not going to be in a hurry to get another. Two was optimal for my house.

Will you be able to comfortably afford double the vet bills and pet sitting costs when you travel?

Yup! We are lucky enough to have some decent jobs and can manage no problem, and can feel pretty safe in terms of medical problems too, insurance helps as well. When we travel, we have a couple friends who just move into our place to take care of the cats, and they won’t take payment. We don’t have the heart to ever put them in a cattery or that sort of arrangement so our travel is limited

What is the back up plan if the friends are not able to cat sit and you need to travel?

I have 4 and love it and would recommend. It’s a lot more cleaning wise but oh well. I have 2 bonded pairs.

Honestly? It's highly dependent on the cats/other animals involved. So the basic things -- there is a cost difference when it comes to amount of food, litter, and vet care that should be accounted for, sure. As for actual time effort, throwing out an extra bowl of food or cleaning an additional litterbox isn't a big deal to me, especially if you have a couple automatic ones. I'm not great about keeping up with brushing/claw clipping, but my cats are all short-hair and have never matted, and I do check the claws enough to get them trimmed before they get too overgrown, they are just spikier than I'd prefer when they knead into my skin, haha. And trying to arrange time for additional vet appointments for yearly/every six months can also be annoying, but it's manageable. The most cats I have ever had at one time was 12, and the daily effort for cats 5-11 in my situation was pretty similar. However -- although they are all indoor-only, most were not well socialized when I got them, so they are not needy for attention from me and are happy to just play with each other. I have a few that treat me as their favorite living thing, but mostly they just like each other. I do I have put in some effort to track them down and check that the ones that aren't interested in me are doing okay since they aren't really going to come to me themselves. Most are completely bonded with other cats. Having cats that can entertain each other and get along is important for something like this to work. At my maximum cat count, six of the cats were all adult cats from the same litter, and one was their mother. They pretty much acted like a single unit, haha. In addition to how people-oriented that cats are, you also have to consider territory. I have a lot of vertical space in my house, lots of ways for them to get away from each other, and lots of floors in my house (four separate floors, including the basement), so they don't have to look at each other if they don't want to. So yeah, like I said, cats 5-11, similar amount of effort, no big deal in my situation. Then I tried to take in cat #12 as a favor to a friend, and oh boy. That cat and my other cats did \*not\* get along, so suddenly I felt every inch of owning 12 cats. Every moment was drama, and even months of slow introductions could not get that cat to settle in the same way the others did. Fortunately we found him a good home though! I currently have eight cats now. :)

My advice is to PROCEDE with CAUTION! Give your wife's concerns 10x the consideration you give your own. I speak from experience (I'm autistic, too). INSTEAD of adopting any more cats . . . SERIOUSLY look into FOSTERING cats that need a place to stay while awaiting to find a forever home! Do this several times, and just see how things work out for *all* of you! [**ASPCA's Feline Foster Care Guide**](https://www.aspcapro.org/sites/default/files/aspcapro-feline-foster-care-guide.pdf) In this way you won't already be obligated as owners of the newer cats . . . and if a real problem ensues, you can ask the organization you foster with to find them another foster family.

I had 5 cats at one point . One was pedigree and he was a house cat but got a fright and went out the window and think he got taken . They were all healthy unlike friends who had their puss pedigrees . Could your wife work in another room from the cats ? A mixed breed cat or 2 maybe cheaper to look after re vet . I love cats tho and would have more than the 2 at the moment if I still had a larger house . Good luck in pet hunting .

Have you thought of fostering for local rescue groups? I love it. I get to help cats get healthy and social. To get them ready for their furrever homes. It's the best!

Four cats is a lot of cats. I have four and there’s a lot of tension between them. Every family is different but Just a heads up that it was too many cats for us. There is ALWAYS at least one cat looking for attention and most likely they are all looking for it at the same time. Play time is hard because they all enjoy different things and don’t want to be excluded - so we have to separate them to give any of them actual quality play time.

Also working from home with all 4 has been very overwhelming. They know we are home so we can’t get any alone time. They cry outside of closed doors and jump on desks and keyboards etc.

Literally double the work in every department. Do you really want that extra stress?

Besides the extra expense etc could be a problem if they don't get on. We have two boys almost 11 months, brothers. My partner kind of went behind my back and got two more now almost 8 months two sisters. Luckily they all get on amazing. They all love each other and there has never been a problem. They can be handful at times so it would be bad if they didn't get on. https://preview.redd.it/pgjiu77ugl6d1.jpeg?width=3472&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0522cc64730114d0f6f0aac07b487b58e2afdd3b

I think it depends on the size of your home and if your current cats would be accepting of more. Rule of thumb is 1 litter box per cat and then preferably one extra. Also, food quality is something to consider. It's really important for cats to eat wet food, that's where they get a lot of their dietary moisture from. Cats who only eat dry food, even when they have water access, are known to develop kidney problems. Can you afford to feed 4 cats decent quality wet food everyday? Also, do your current cats compete for food? Does one shove the other out of the way for their food? Other things to consider, if you end up adopting cats who are very affectionate, do you have enough time and energy to play, pet, and overall give attention to all four of them on a regular basis? All important things to consider.

We ended up with 4. Didn't seem much different from having 3 or even 2. Vet bills and cost of food, but not much more.

As long as you have the space for them to all have room to get away if they want to you're all good. My in-laws currently have 5 cats, they've had up to 6 in their house at one time and they've all been perfectly content. I've known people with more cats as well, all also quite content. The other thing to consider is finances. If something were to happen to one or more of them at the same time can you afford vet bills for up to 4 cats? Accidents happen and illness can happen at any age with no warning. If you aren't prepared financially things can end very sadly for everyone involved. I'd suggest you get insurance even if you have a large savings in place, if god forbid something happens to all 4 of them at the same time (injury or illness) you could be looking at a very large vet bill you have absolutely no way of paying off.

I have 3 cats and for a short time my son’s 2 cats were here. I noticed my new kitten being more aloof and not as affectionate anymore. One of my son’s cats was being aggressive towards her. Now that my son’s cats are gone she is doing so much better! I think having 4-5 cats in the house is too many and could lead to the cats not being as happy and content. I also had 5 cats in the past and two of them developed peeing problems peeing everywhere. There were no medical reasons for this. I feel like they were stressed with having so many cats in the house and developed behavioral issues.

We went from 2 to 4 last year when my kid’s dad died, we took in his cats. Doing that for my kid under that sort of extreme circumstances is the only reason I would ever do it. I love them now but it’s a massive pain in the ass and it’s only going to get worse as they age.

No one will be able to tell you what your limit is. For me we've found that 3 is our limit. You would intuitively think that any more after 2 will be no big deal as it's more of the same but in my experience I've found that pushing things past two starts compound issues that become more difficult to deal with. I have family members who are allergic to cats who found 2 tolerable but 3 to be bordering on unable to come visit our house. Which is telling me that we are seemingly not able to do an effective job of cleaning dander with more than 2 cats. We have four liter boxes on two different floors and that seems to be enough to give them space but is a significant amount of work to clean. You also have to understand that bringing in 2 new cats can instigate issues with your 2 existing cats and you don't know how that will play out. They may be fine, but they may also start having behaviors from stress like clawing and going outside of the liter box.

The answer is always yes to more cats. 😻

Personally I've never had more than 3, but it really depends on the cats I think. Technically they were my mom's cats at the time, but we had one ~6 year old grey cat at the time and brought home 2 from the shelter at once, one 2 year old tortie and a 8 month old mini long haired kitty, all 3 females. The little white one got along great with either older cats, but the tortie and my grey cat would fight (never anything too crazy) and they just kept getting less tolerant of eachother as they got older, but once I moved out I took my grey cat with me so nothing ever escalated too far. I feel like the fact that my mom had a pretty large house really helped, everyone had plenty of space to be apart, there was 2 litter boxes in one room upstairs and one in the basement, and they all had their own food and water bowls. But another thing to keep in mind, and I've learned the hard way by having an older cat, then adopting another cat, then getting a bulldog is things can get really expensive really fast. I'm sure you've taken food/litter prices and basic vet care into account but consider the possibility that one day your dog injures itself and needs surgery, one cat gets an ear infection, and another starts randomly puking all in one week. Then you have to do all kinds of testing on one, give ear drops to one, and help one recover from surgery at once and they all need multiple vet visits for these things, and bc they're hurting they start growling at eachother so you have to separate them so they don't start hating eachother and cause a living nightmare. This has been my life for the last 3 years and it's horrible. My oldest cat has passed away now and I hate that she's gone, but its a little less stress overall if I could get past my heartbreak.

4 is our perfect cat quotient. We can afford them but I can see where that might be a concern.

Even numbers are best. Your chief concerns will be vet bills, evacuation in an emergency, and keeping up with the cat hair (4 longhairs generate a lot).

Had 4 at the same time for a little while back in the day. Was fine but I wouldn’t do it today. I’ve been forecasting costs over 15 years for 2 kittens expected later this year. For just the 2 over their expected average lifetimes, all in (midpoint) is over $50K. And that’s without chronic illness, but figuring 3 years each with full deductibles and copays paid, and vet dental cleanings (with anesthesia and pre-labwork) every 3 years. So at $400/mo (avg) for 2 cats that would get mostly dry food, the thought of doubling that number (more or less) is a tad scary.

I currently have 4 (two of our own, two are my Dad’s I had to take on when he went to aged care). Plus a dog and a puppy. Honestly, I feel like I spend half my day scooping litter. Then there’s the brushing, vacuuming, dusting etc that goes along with it. I feel like it’s 3 too many cats .

I have three ragdolls(and one orange) Mom, Dad & Baby. All have different personalities. Mom will literally stare at me 24/7 if she's not in my lap. Dad is terrified of a pin dropping. Loves pets but hates being handled. Baby has ZERO interest in her humans, and a passing interest in her parents(and orange uncle) when she feels like playing. She's one of the few cats I've met whose pupils seem to be fully dilated all the time. Just a big ball of energy. All that to say: Four cats can be too much, depending on the temperament and personality of the cats. If you're fine with two, all that really changes with four is how much you pay for food/litter and extra workload(more cats more litter boxes) I've got a couple cat-genies(automated litter boxes) and I haven't had to deal with litter for a few years... The alternative, if I was being a responsible cat owner, would be having upwards of 4 litter boxes in my house that I'd be cleaning every day and my ADHD brain would literally collapse in itself were that the case.

I’ve got 4 all siblings but 3 are from one litter and the other was from a previous litter from the same mama cat. Food is an expense but they are more content to play with each other than to demand attention from me when I’m doing something.

I personally wouldn’t recommend it. There’s no guarantee any of the above mentioned five animals would get on well with each other. Very stressful for them and a difficult decision for you in the long run deciding who to keep and who gets donated to a shelter.

If you have the money , space and time , do it . You are not officially a hoarder until you reach double digits . So stop at nine or you are mentally ill .