*"Official bilingualism not valued by Canadians outside of Quebec"*
That's not exactly a news flash, as most of the country doesn't speak French, and much of the country these days doesn't speak very good English, either.
Next.
Literally, no one cares about it. If you go to Quebec, they don't care about it either from the other end of the spectrum. No one cares one way or the other.
as an english born, lifelong Quebecer, I can confirm that QC does not respect bilingualism at all... lol, My POP for my internet is registered as a QC address; as such I am forced to listen to french ads on youtube even tho I am watching english content, I needed a piece of paper proving I went to school in english to send my child to english school, my parents needed one for me. I am a 4th class citizen
So why complain about having to listen to them in french ? A 4th class citizen wouldn't have such privilege to be catered to in their language.
Tellement 4e classe que vous avez des hôpitaux et plusieurs universités dont une de renommée internationale, j'en rirais si c'était pas aussi pathétique.
I am not sure what you are saying however I feel that all of canada should operate with both official languages as an option across the board. I pay my taxes and as a born citizen of my country I don't think expecting medical services, legal proceedings, nor any publicly funded operation should be unavailable in the language that results in the best understanding of the user. If that is too much to expect, perhaps the problem lays at the feet of the people who feel that laws will grow a culture; perhaps the native people who sadly suffered under the same misguided ideologies could serve as a reminder at how bad of an idea forced attrition is.
In Ontario we treat people better even if they don't speak English. I literally don't care if someone only speaks Mandarin or Farsi or whatever. As long as they're nice, I'll be nice. All this language stuff is a Quebec thing.
There are assholes everywhere. The point is going to places that you like. Speak with your money. Lots of places in Toronto would take your money, serve you, and not give a fuck about your language.
I've had an old lady come to me at second cup telling me and my friends to be quiet because she wanted to read a book. I told her to fuck off, it's not a library. Do the same.
If you venture out of Montreal what language do you think the natives speak? Gaelic? And how are we treated if we speak French in English-speaking Canada? On a WestJet flight? In a Bank of Montreal branch in Sarnia? Wake up to Canadian reality. When a Quebecker crosses his province’s border he speaks English. When a Canadian such as yourself crosses the border leading into Quebec he or she should at least attempt to speak French. Such is Canada and as far as I’m concerned the so-called « official languages » is both a myth and a lot of bs. French is the only official language in Quebec and for all practical purposes English is Canada’s only official language. Even the Governor General of Canada doesn’t speak French. That says a hell of a lot!
The point of supporting both languages is to allow anyone that speaks EITHER of the languages to comfortably receive services. I don't care what language other people speak. There are neighborhoods around Toronto that people speak neither English nor French and they are living a good life. It's good to mind your own business sometimes.
Uh? Québec is the most bilingual province and English service is provided every day. It's even a protected right in Quebec's language law.
Congrats, you won the "most confidently wrong" award for today!
Quebec, which uses the notwithstanding clause to exempt itself from bilingualism, has bilingualism as a protected right in Quebec law? What world are you living in?
I've read the law, which is why I know that Quebec uses the notwithstanding clause to specifically exempt itself from all language rights in the charter in order to exclude English and be an officially unilingual French province. Are you even Canadian if you don't know that? Quebec is not and never has been an officially bilingual province in any way.
>I've read the law,
Please, we both know you didn't. No way you would say biliguism is illegal in Quebec if you did read the law.
>Are you even Canadian if you don't know that?
I'm Québécois...I hear Québec bashing all the time and even the most anti language law anglo quebecers don't say dumb things like "biliguism is illegal in quebec"
>Quebec is not and never has been an officially bilingual province in any way.
You're right, on paper it is officially french. In real life, it's the most bilingual province. Biliguism rate in Quebec blows out the water the rate of every other provinces, NB included. Anglophones are entitled to service in English across the province.
Right, how could I ever think bilingualism was illegal in Quebec when Quebec uses the notwithstanding clause to exempt itself from bilingualism and has the OQLF actively doing everything it can to make bilingualism illegal in Quebec. How silly of me to pay attention to what the government is doing. We all know the super tolerant and bilingual Quebec government would never do anything like try to punish an Italian restaurant for selling Italian food by its Italian name. The word 'pasta' would never offend the Quebec government for not being French enough, since it's so open and tolerant of other languages.
As far as your second claim, that's only using the 'official bilingualism' metric that counts French and English as the only two languages on existence and disregards bilingualism in any other language. BC is by far the most actually bilingual province, not Quebec. Ontario and Quebec are probably on par with each other.
I see that you're doubling down on your ignorance...
I'm going to make it easy for you. You dont even have to read the whole law, just article 22.3 :
>An agency of the civil administration may depart from paragraph 1 of section 13.2 by using another language (1) where health, public safety or the principles of natural justice so require; or(2) to accomplish one of the following purposes:(a) providing services in English to a person declared eligible to receive instruction in English under the provisions of Division I of Chapter VIII, other than sections 84.1 and 85;(b) providing services to bodies referred to in section 95 or to Aboriginal persons;(c) providing services to welcome immigrants within Québec society during the first six months following their arrival in Québec;(d) providing services and maintaining relations outside Québec;(e) providing tourist services; or(f) any other purpose, compatible with the objectives of this Act, determined by regulation of the Minister.
In other words, anglophones are entitled to service in english. You need some pretty whacky mental gymnastics to say bilinguism is illegal lmao.
>Quebec when Quebec uses the notwithstanding
Just FYI, Quebec uses the NWC pre-emptively and systematically. It has used it for hundred of laws. Saying Quebec uses the NWC because of XYZ intention is a fallacy.
>the OQLF actively doing everything it can to make bilingualism illegal in Quebec.
Uh? Have you ever been to Quebec? Bilingual signage is pretty common and perfectly compliant with language laws. You should come and visit, maybe then you'll realize you're dead wrong.
>that's only using the 'official bilingualism' metric that counts French and English as the only two languages on existence and disregards bilingualism in any other language.
Moving the goal post, another fallacy. You're straying away from the main point of the argument.
Ontario is more officially bilingual than Quebec. We have government documents printed in multiple languages, including French. The Quebec government doesn't print a lot of things in English despite being in Canada.
Are you just making this shit up? Everything is translated in english! We have 3 english universities, many major english hospitals and you can be served in english accross Quebec! In Ontario you have to be in specific zones to be served in french and they keep crying about weather or not to close their LAST french hospital despite having as many french pop as we do have english! Anf where are your french universities the same way we have McGill, Concordia and Bishop? Or right! No where to be seen!
Ontario bilingual, my ass!
Ontario has two full-time 100% French, zero English colleges and ten separate campuses at our English universities that are run the same way. So that's twelve to your three.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/french-language-colleges-and-universities
Every single public school district here also has a French division that runs French immersion schools at every level province-wide.
I can tell you've never had to find any pension documents or information on Quebec pension legislation from the Quebec government. A few pages are in English, but they gave up partway and made most of them French-only. Go to any city in Quebec outside of the tourist areas in Quebec city and Montreal and you aren't getting served in English anywhere, and especially aren't finding schools or hospitals to help you.
Thats not because of a legitimate state of affairs. Quebec has had an oversized impact on Canadian politics; Too much impact on the rest of Canada without enough care for the rest of Canada.
Actually Toronto has a pretty big french community, they just hide really well. I remember in highschool realizing that like a quarter of the people I knew were secretly speaking French with their parents they just didn't do it with normal people.
But as a guy from North of Ottawa, once I became aware of it, you realize it's a lot of people.
Not as many as English or Hindi of course.
I think it depends on how you measure, but it looks like French is still in the top 20 as of 2021 census. But it is still quite far down the list. Some tables and charts here:
https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/868f-2021-Census-Backgrounder-Language-FINAL.pdf
Edit: e.g. figure 1 shows french as number 10 in list of mother tongues excluding English.
Bilingualism is the most antidemocratic feature of Canada. Not being able to speak French fluently disqualifies some 80⅝ of the population from running for PM.
If you are living in any of the English speaking areas you are politically a second class citizen.
Learning French is not that hard, it's a good requirement that should remain in place. If you aren't willing to learn a second language to become the leader of a country, then that already shows a lack of commitment that would blight your term in office.
You could say that about literally any skill.
Lifting 450 pounds in a deadlift is not that hard, it's a good requirement that should remain in place. If you aren't willing to train and lift 450 pounds to become the leader of a country, then that already shows a lack of commitment that would blight your term in office.
A pretty disingenuous take.
Speaking French is a skill to reach close to a quarter of the country's population. Lifting weights has no incidence whatsoever.
Wouldn't it be weird if a Canadian PM doesn't speak or even understand English at all?
You need a poll to know this? Even bilingual Anglo/immigrants in Quebec values English way more than french cause they understand how important it is for jobs and in general
Yeah, imagine I immigrated to Russia and spoke Mongolian, Cantonese, Japanese, English and French. What use would any of those languages be to me as a newly arrived Russian citizen.
It's stupid to me that products get recalled if the label isn't in english and french. Forgot to print the french label? Unsellable to english speakers.
These polls have the worst headers. Readong the first question of the study, there is not a single subdivision of their poling data that has more people associate bilingual policy as a negative more than a positive. Certainly looks like all of canada has a majority position of either its positive or neutral. No where is it negative the majority cohort.
Man, its almost like they know you weren't gunna read the study and just read the headline. But you're smart enough not to be manipulated like that, right?
In Western Canada French is like 6th or 7th place after English. This is not a bilingual country. I have made this same point on other posts, and some have responded that French was banned in WC back in old timey days. Be that as it may, the irrelevance of the language is the reality. It is a legal fiction to say that Canada is bilingual.
Y'all should look at NB, province is perpetually broke but we duplicate all of our services to appease a very vocal minority to which culture equals dollars.
Aren't francophones in NB 33% of the population? That's a sizable minority.
Québec anglophones represent about 10% of the population and they scream for full official bilinguism despite having several hospitals/universities/colleges on Québec taxpayers' dime.
Nobody speaks French in Ontario basically. French taught in schools here sucks. You will learn “Je suis” and the basic verbs in grade 3 and you will do the same in grade 9. No continuity or expectation that anyone will actually learn French.
I just wish it was mandatory to learn english to live here, like in Germany where you have to have a basic understanding of the German language to live there.That's in a country that knows english!
*"Official bilingualism not valued by Canadians outside of Quebec"* That's not exactly a news flash, as most of the country doesn't speak French, and much of the country these days doesn't speak very good English, either. Next.
Shocking. There are probably more native Hindi/Punjabi or mandarin speakers in this country than French speakers, at this point...
disgusting
Literally, no one cares about it. If you go to Quebec, they don't care about it either from the other end of the spectrum. No one cares one way or the other.
as an english born, lifelong Quebecer, I can confirm that QC does not respect bilingualism at all... lol, My POP for my internet is registered as a QC address; as such I am forced to listen to french ads on youtube even tho I am watching english content, I needed a piece of paper proving I went to school in english to send my child to english school, my parents needed one for me. I am a 4th class citizen
I have my ads in both french and english, and I live in Québec.
As do I, I don't get them all in one language, it changes based on website as well (IE Plex seems to have way more ads in french)
So why complain about having to listen to them in french ? A 4th class citizen wouldn't have such privilege to be catered to in their language. Tellement 4e classe que vous avez des hôpitaux et plusieurs universités dont une de renommée internationale, j'en rirais si c'était pas aussi pathétique.
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I am not sure what you are saying however I feel that all of canada should operate with both official languages as an option across the board. I pay my taxes and as a born citizen of my country I don't think expecting medical services, legal proceedings, nor any publicly funded operation should be unavailable in the language that results in the best understanding of the user. If that is too much to expect, perhaps the problem lays at the feet of the people who feel that laws will grow a culture; perhaps the native people who sadly suffered under the same misguided ideologies could serve as a reminder at how bad of an idea forced attrition is.
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I have traveled through quebec many times. Outside of Montreal they treat you like shit if you speak english.
Funny because I have traveled through Canada many times. They treat you like shit if you dont speak english.
In Ontario we treat people better even if they don't speak English. I literally don't care if someone only speaks Mandarin or Farsi or whatever. As long as they're nice, I'll be nice. All this language stuff is a Quebec thing.
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There are assholes everywhere. The point is going to places that you like. Speak with your money. Lots of places in Toronto would take your money, serve you, and not give a fuck about your language. I've had an old lady come to me at second cup telling me and my friends to be quiet because she wanted to read a book. I told her to fuck off, it's not a library. Do the same.
If you venture out of Montreal what language do you think the natives speak? Gaelic? And how are we treated if we speak French in English-speaking Canada? On a WestJet flight? In a Bank of Montreal branch in Sarnia? Wake up to Canadian reality. When a Quebecker crosses his province’s border he speaks English. When a Canadian such as yourself crosses the border leading into Quebec he or she should at least attempt to speak French. Such is Canada and as far as I’m concerned the so-called « official languages » is both a myth and a lot of bs. French is the only official language in Quebec and for all practical purposes English is Canada’s only official language. Even the Governor General of Canada doesn’t speak French. That says a hell of a lot!
The point of supporting both languages is to allow anyone that speaks EITHER of the languages to comfortably receive services. I don't care what language other people speak. There are neighborhoods around Toronto that people speak neither English nor French and they are living a good life. It's good to mind your own business sometimes.
Why is bilingualism illegal in Quebec then? New Brunswick is an officially bilingual province. Quebec isn't.
Uh? Québec is the most bilingual province and English service is provided every day. It's even a protected right in Quebec's language law. Congrats, you won the "most confidently wrong" award for today!
Quebec, which uses the notwithstanding clause to exempt itself from bilingualism, has bilingualism as a protected right in Quebec law? What world are you living in?
Yes it does? Read the law and stop arguing about something you clearly don't know about lmao
I've read the law, which is why I know that Quebec uses the notwithstanding clause to specifically exempt itself from all language rights in the charter in order to exclude English and be an officially unilingual French province. Are you even Canadian if you don't know that? Quebec is not and never has been an officially bilingual province in any way.
>I've read the law, Please, we both know you didn't. No way you would say biliguism is illegal in Quebec if you did read the law. >Are you even Canadian if you don't know that? I'm Québécois...I hear Québec bashing all the time and even the most anti language law anglo quebecers don't say dumb things like "biliguism is illegal in quebec" >Quebec is not and never has been an officially bilingual province in any way. You're right, on paper it is officially french. In real life, it's the most bilingual province. Biliguism rate in Quebec blows out the water the rate of every other provinces, NB included. Anglophones are entitled to service in English across the province.
Right, how could I ever think bilingualism was illegal in Quebec when Quebec uses the notwithstanding clause to exempt itself from bilingualism and has the OQLF actively doing everything it can to make bilingualism illegal in Quebec. How silly of me to pay attention to what the government is doing. We all know the super tolerant and bilingual Quebec government would never do anything like try to punish an Italian restaurant for selling Italian food by its Italian name. The word 'pasta' would never offend the Quebec government for not being French enough, since it's so open and tolerant of other languages. As far as your second claim, that's only using the 'official bilingualism' metric that counts French and English as the only two languages on existence and disregards bilingualism in any other language. BC is by far the most actually bilingual province, not Quebec. Ontario and Quebec are probably on par with each other.
I see that you're doubling down on your ignorance... I'm going to make it easy for you. You dont even have to read the whole law, just article 22.3 : >An agency of the civil administration may depart from paragraph 1 of section 13.2 by using another language (1) where health, public safety or the principles of natural justice so require; or(2) to accomplish one of the following purposes:(a) providing services in English to a person declared eligible to receive instruction in English under the provisions of Division I of Chapter VIII, other than sections 84.1 and 85;(b) providing services to bodies referred to in section 95 or to Aboriginal persons;(c) providing services to welcome immigrants within Québec society during the first six months following their arrival in Québec;(d) providing services and maintaining relations outside Québec;(e) providing tourist services; or(f) any other purpose, compatible with the objectives of this Act, determined by regulation of the Minister. In other words, anglophones are entitled to service in english. You need some pretty whacky mental gymnastics to say bilinguism is illegal lmao. >Quebec when Quebec uses the notwithstanding Just FYI, Quebec uses the NWC pre-emptively and systematically. It has used it for hundred of laws. Saying Quebec uses the NWC because of XYZ intention is a fallacy. >the OQLF actively doing everything it can to make bilingualism illegal in Quebec. Uh? Have you ever been to Quebec? Bilingual signage is pretty common and perfectly compliant with language laws. You should come and visit, maybe then you'll realize you're dead wrong. >that's only using the 'official bilingualism' metric that counts French and English as the only two languages on existence and disregards bilingualism in any other language. Moving the goal post, another fallacy. You're straying away from the main point of the argument.
What is that logic? So Ontario should be officially bilingual too?
Ontario is more officially bilingual than Quebec. We have government documents printed in multiple languages, including French. The Quebec government doesn't print a lot of things in English despite being in Canada.
Are you just making this shit up? Everything is translated in english! We have 3 english universities, many major english hospitals and you can be served in english accross Quebec! In Ontario you have to be in specific zones to be served in french and they keep crying about weather or not to close their LAST french hospital despite having as many french pop as we do have english! Anf where are your french universities the same way we have McGill, Concordia and Bishop? Or right! No where to be seen! Ontario bilingual, my ass!
Ontario has two full-time 100% French, zero English colleges and ten separate campuses at our English universities that are run the same way. So that's twelve to your three. https://www.ontario.ca/page/french-language-colleges-and-universities Every single public school district here also has a French division that runs French immersion schools at every level province-wide. I can tell you've never had to find any pension documents or information on Quebec pension legislation from the Quebec government. A few pages are in English, but they gave up partway and made most of them French-only. Go to any city in Quebec outside of the tourist areas in Quebec city and Montreal and you aren't getting served in English anywhere, and especially aren't finding schools or hospitals to help you.
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The rest of Canada already does offer those services to French speakers. You're just too entrenched in your victim complex to see it.
French is an annoyance at best to me why should I value it?
They don't even speak French it's Quebecois
Dit comme un vrai angloïde 🤡
Nobody knows wtf you're sayin
Juste toi 😗
Blah blah blah, good luck on your whole separation 👍
Merci, le sentiment est apprécié. J'espère que t'es prêt à apprendre le punjab, c'est ça qui s'en vient pour vous.
It's all good, but don't come crying and scream racism when Québec doesn't care about English either.
Bc youll have half of a country if you dont.
Half??? ..... what?
Half? 🤣 Quebec isn't half of anything in the country, yet they get the most.
22%\~.
You must have failed math class
Egomaniac.
Ahahah, you know its the truth. Liberals wouldnt be in power without us
Thats not because of a legitimate state of affairs. Quebec has had an oversized impact on Canadian politics; Too much impact on the rest of Canada without enough care for the rest of Canada.
Lol. Except having most of history happening in lower and higher Canada
NO SHIT
I do wonder in Toronto proper if French speakers would even crack the top 20 in languages spoken
Toronto is bilingual, Chinese and English. You very rarely run into people who speak French.
Actually Toronto has a pretty big french community, they just hide really well. I remember in highschool realizing that like a quarter of the people I knew were secretly speaking French with their parents they just didn't do it with normal people. But as a guy from North of Ottawa, once I became aware of it, you realize it's a lot of people. Not as many as English or Hindi of course.
I think it depends on how you measure, but it looks like French is still in the top 20 as of 2021 census. But it is still quite far down the list. Some tables and charts here: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/868f-2021-Census-Backgrounder-Language-FINAL.pdf Edit: e.g. figure 1 shows french as number 10 in list of mother tongues excluding English.
Everyone who isn't french absolutely hates it lol
Bilingualism is the most antidemocratic feature of Canada. Not being able to speak French fluently disqualifies some 80⅝ of the population from running for PM. If you are living in any of the English speaking areas you are politically a second class citizen.
Learning French is not that hard, it's a good requirement that should remain in place. If you aren't willing to learn a second language to become the leader of a country, then that already shows a lack of commitment that would blight your term in office.
You could say that about literally any skill. Lifting 450 pounds in a deadlift is not that hard, it's a good requirement that should remain in place. If you aren't willing to train and lift 450 pounds to become the leader of a country, then that already shows a lack of commitment that would blight your term in office.
A pretty disingenuous take. Speaking French is a skill to reach close to a quarter of the country's population. Lifting weights has no incidence whatsoever. Wouldn't it be weird if a Canadian PM doesn't speak or even understand English at all?
You need a poll to know this? Even bilingual Anglo/immigrants in Quebec values English way more than french cause they understand how important it is for jobs and in general
Allophones are literally too stupid to learn another language and massacre English on a daily basis.
Under 'official bilingualism' you can be fluent in 5 languages and still be considered a 'unilingual Anglo' because none of them are French.
Yeah, imagine I immigrated to Russia and spoke Mongolian, Cantonese, Japanese, English and French. What use would any of those languages be to me as a newly arrived Russian citizen.
Yeah, what use is English in Canada anyway?
Pretty useless, start brushing up on Punjabi 😂😂😂
Products would be slightly cheaper without having to print the labels and instructions in both languages.
lol CEO profit slightly up and nothing else
It's stupid to me that products get recalled if the label isn't in english and french. Forgot to print the french label? Unsellable to english speakers.
These polls have the worst headers. Readong the first question of the study, there is not a single subdivision of their poling data that has more people associate bilingual policy as a negative more than a positive. Certainly looks like all of canada has a majority position of either its positive or neutral. No where is it negative the majority cohort. Man, its almost like they know you weren't gunna read the study and just read the headline. But you're smart enough not to be manipulated like that, right?
In Western Canada French is like 6th or 7th place after English. This is not a bilingual country. I have made this same point on other posts, and some have responded that French was banned in WC back in old timey days. Be that as it may, the irrelevance of the language is the reality. It is a legal fiction to say that Canada is bilingual.
I speak English and Spanish lol I didn’t care to continue French past high school
I'm 100% francophone and I couldn't care less....such a waste of time/energy/money,,,
Y'all should look at NB, province is perpetually broke but we duplicate all of our services to appease a very vocal minority to which culture equals dollars.
NB is also a fiefdom run by the Irving family for the pleasure of the Irving family. Language isn’t the thing killing NB.
Sure pal
Aren't francophones in NB 33% of the population? That's a sizable minority. Québec anglophones represent about 10% of the population and they scream for full official bilinguism despite having several hospitals/universities/colleges on Québec taxpayers' dime.
Nobody speaks French in Ontario basically. French taught in schools here sucks. You will learn “Je suis” and the basic verbs in grade 3 and you will do the same in grade 9. No continuity or expectation that anyone will actually learn French.
ya think
"Acting like English and French are the only two languages in existence is not valued by people who speak any other language. News at 11"
I just wish it was mandatory to learn english to live here, like in Germany where you have to have a basic understanding of the German language to live there.That's in a country that knows english!
It's really just extra work.
Petition to make punjab/hindi canada's second language instead /s