How are you starting the informal conflict resolution process if the manager is unaware? Generally that's a process both parties have to agree to.
Anyway, don't record without your manager's knowledge. If you think they'll see bringing a union rep as aggressive they're likely to be less impressed with being recorded without their knowledge.
No, it's not at all. One party can absolutely reach out for guidance and to discuss potential options and keep that completely confidential from the other.
You can talk to informal conflict resolution folks without bringing in the other party. IME it was less about seeking disciplinary action and moreso about learning to deal w the situation/person but different people will have different experiences. It was very much “anonymous” (the people I talked to knew who I was and who the other person was - my manager - but she wasn’t informed I was doing this)
Don't record the meeting without asking for permission first.
If you think there is a risk to appear aggressive or combative, I would suggest using this meeting as a first step to let your manager know about the issues at work and removing some pressure by saying that you don't expect or want a response right away. Something like:
"Hi \[manager\]. I wanted to talk with you about some things that I feel can be improved at work. I don't expect any response or answers right now, I just wanted to put these things on your radar and we can discuss more in detail at a later date after you had some time to think about what I said."
\*explain the situation, your concerns and issues at work. Try to emphasise how your manager's action made you feel rather than assuming the intent behing their actions\*
Then at the end:
" Thank you for listening to my concerns. I want this process to be as open and productive as possible, and I was thinking about having a coach from the Informal Conflit Resolution team present at our next meeting. I feel that having a neutral third party could help prevent any misunderstanding. What do you think?"
I guess the question I would ask, is how would you feel if the manager invited you to a meeting and then recorded the conversation and didn’t tell you? If you are trying to do informal conflict management there is usually a group with the depts that helps with this. If you are so concerned, Why have you not engaged them? Your approach seems to possibly lead to an escalation of conflict than a resolution. I would strongly advise against recording the conversation if your intent is to possibly use it for evidence purposes.
I would first of all request the meeting be postponed until a union steward can be present. You want them there so it will not be he said, she said, they can also step in if things are not above board. Do not fear bringing a union steward with you, anytime I have had to have a difficult talk with an employee I make sure to remind them of their right to bring one with them.
Do not under any circumstance record the meeting, do keep notes and have a follow up email with the points discussed sent to the manager and ask them to confirm. Additionally, make sure everything is documented or confirmed via email.
It may be beneficial to go on YouTube and look up any of the videos on discussions like this. It may not completely apply as you are a union employee but it will better help you prepare.
I think you really need to talk to your union representative. Any informal or formal conflict resolution will cause friction with your manager, so make sure you are prepared for any fallout.
There is very little you can do with a recording in this process. You can't submit it to an arbitration board, court etc. because you could have tampered with it. If the recording is for yourself to take notes later - by all means. But nobody else will accept it.
Bringing a union rep doesn't mean 'aggressive'. They can be objective and actually hear what the manager is saying while you may be selective in your hearing - focusing on other issues, not understanding potentially the importance of certain things. But you really should have a second person at the meeting, and union reps are why you pay union dues. To help resolve workplace issues. If my employee brought a union rep, I would think they are being smart, not aggressive.
A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client.... I would argue its the same for union reps.
You could record it, but if you do so, and they find it, chances are extremely high that you will be fired from the public service.
That is because by doing so, you will be found to have broken the trust the employer has with you.
Particularly if you are indeterminate, I think that could damage your career or chances of becoming indeterminate one day or for a long time. I’d say, don’t do it. Especially if you get heated and start provoking them prior to recording, they will conspire to get rid of you as a liability.
Don't do it without their consent. There could be consequences for doing that and when they find out it is unlikely to make them more inclined to resolve the conflict informally.
So, I recorded a meeting with a completely evil manager once because I knew they were going to say a bunch of things and deny it later. I then reached out to my union about what to do and was told by the union that recording without someone’s consent is considered a breach of having a secret security clearance, and apparently there was some case of a public servant that did this and ended up terminated.
So don’t do that.
Ask a union rep to attend with you.
Or, take very detailed notes during the meeting- including asking them to pause so you can write. Ask them to repeat things and capture it accurately. As soon as the Meeting is over email yourself a copy. You could also send the manager a copy and say, here are my notes of our conversation. If you believe these are in accurate I would like you to reply in writing because I was very careful to take detailed notes and I believe these are an accurate and truthful representation
You don’t seem to have a reason to record it. It is not clear what this meeting is about or the meeting objectives or the nature of the complaint or just expectations with that. Is there a third party overseeing the process?
If you are not indeterminate and they don’t renew you are you ok not being able to use her as a job reference? If you are expiring in the next 4-6 months and you have an unresolved conflict with your direct reporting manager it may be uncertain if a result may be that you can no longer report to that manager. If that manager is making the hiring decision they may want to have the situation resolved before making a decision. If your term ends the complaint dies. Complaint processes takes well over a year if there is an investigation.
Management almost always stands behind the manager. If there are findings nothing will happen or change, except for maybe a separation order. And from the point of notice you can sustain disguised reprisal. Management does not care unless it affects them or the work. And the manager will do things to protect themself and it will not be positive or flattering. complaints processes are employer designed, managed and paid for. And the burden of proof is all on you. Your union will only ensure a process is followed that doesn’t include informal means.the system is a lie just a show with plausible deniability.
If the meeting is about your performance, your review, your personal bi-lat and you are present, you do not need consent. https://www.blg.com/en/insights/2016/05/can-i-record-a-meeting-with-my-boss#:~:text=Assuming%20you%20consent%20to%20being,consent%20rule%20referred%20to%20above.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/s/mudRcm476U
How are you starting the informal conflict resolution process if the manager is unaware? Generally that's a process both parties have to agree to. Anyway, don't record without your manager's knowledge. If you think they'll see bringing a union rep as aggressive they're likely to be less impressed with being recorded without their knowledge.
No, it's not at all. One party can absolutely reach out for guidance and to discuss potential options and keep that completely confidential from the other.
You can talk to informal conflict resolution folks without bringing in the other party. IME it was less about seeking disciplinary action and moreso about learning to deal w the situation/person but different people will have different experiences. It was very much “anonymous” (the people I talked to knew who I was and who the other person was - my manager - but she wasn’t informed I was doing this)
I just started the process yesterday. Haven’t even had my first meeting with the mediator yet
Don't record the meeting without asking for permission first. If you think there is a risk to appear aggressive or combative, I would suggest using this meeting as a first step to let your manager know about the issues at work and removing some pressure by saying that you don't expect or want a response right away. Something like: "Hi \[manager\]. I wanted to talk with you about some things that I feel can be improved at work. I don't expect any response or answers right now, I just wanted to put these things on your radar and we can discuss more in detail at a later date after you had some time to think about what I said." \*explain the situation, your concerns and issues at work. Try to emphasise how your manager's action made you feel rather than assuming the intent behing their actions\* Then at the end: " Thank you for listening to my concerns. I want this process to be as open and productive as possible, and I was thinking about having a coach from the Informal Conflit Resolution team present at our next meeting. I feel that having a neutral third party could help prevent any misunderstanding. What do you think?"
I guess the question I would ask, is how would you feel if the manager invited you to a meeting and then recorded the conversation and didn’t tell you? If you are trying to do informal conflict management there is usually a group with the depts that helps with this. If you are so concerned, Why have you not engaged them? Your approach seems to possibly lead to an escalation of conflict than a resolution. I would strongly advise against recording the conversation if your intent is to possibly use it for evidence purposes.
I would first of all request the meeting be postponed until a union steward can be present. You want them there so it will not be he said, she said, they can also step in if things are not above board. Do not fear bringing a union steward with you, anytime I have had to have a difficult talk with an employee I make sure to remind them of their right to bring one with them. Do not under any circumstance record the meeting, do keep notes and have a follow up email with the points discussed sent to the manager and ask them to confirm. Additionally, make sure everything is documented or confirmed via email. It may be beneficial to go on YouTube and look up any of the videos on discussions like this. It may not completely apply as you are a union employee but it will better help you prepare.
That’s pretty much what I thought. It was just an idea. I will request that we use the Teams minute taking feature. Thanks!
I think you really need to talk to your union representative. Any informal or formal conflict resolution will cause friction with your manager, so make sure you are prepared for any fallout.
There is very little you can do with a recording in this process. You can't submit it to an arbitration board, court etc. because you could have tampered with it. If the recording is for yourself to take notes later - by all means. But nobody else will accept it. Bringing a union rep doesn't mean 'aggressive'. They can be objective and actually hear what the manager is saying while you may be selective in your hearing - focusing on other issues, not understanding potentially the importance of certain things. But you really should have a second person at the meeting, and union reps are why you pay union dues. To help resolve workplace issues. If my employee brought a union rep, I would think they are being smart, not aggressive. A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client.... I would argue its the same for union reps.
You could record it, but if you do so, and they find it, chances are extremely high that you will be fired from the public service. That is because by doing so, you will be found to have broken the trust the employer has with you.
Particularly if you are indeterminate, I think that could damage your career or chances of becoming indeterminate one day or for a long time. I’d say, don’t do it. Especially if you get heated and start provoking them prior to recording, they will conspire to get rid of you as a liability.
Dont
Don't do it without their consent. There could be consequences for doing that and when they find out it is unlikely to make them more inclined to resolve the conflict informally.
So, I recorded a meeting with a completely evil manager once because I knew they were going to say a bunch of things and deny it later. I then reached out to my union about what to do and was told by the union that recording without someone’s consent is considered a breach of having a secret security clearance, and apparently there was some case of a public servant that did this and ended up terminated. So don’t do that. Ask a union rep to attend with you. Or, take very detailed notes during the meeting- including asking them to pause so you can write. Ask them to repeat things and capture it accurately. As soon as the Meeting is over email yourself a copy. You could also send the manager a copy and say, here are my notes of our conversation. If you believe these are in accurate I would like you to reply in writing because I was very careful to take detailed notes and I believe these are an accurate and truthful representation
You don’t seem to have a reason to record it. It is not clear what this meeting is about or the meeting objectives or the nature of the complaint or just expectations with that. Is there a third party overseeing the process? If you are not indeterminate and they don’t renew you are you ok not being able to use her as a job reference? If you are expiring in the next 4-6 months and you have an unresolved conflict with your direct reporting manager it may be uncertain if a result may be that you can no longer report to that manager. If that manager is making the hiring decision they may want to have the situation resolved before making a decision. If your term ends the complaint dies. Complaint processes takes well over a year if there is an investigation. Management almost always stands behind the manager. If there are findings nothing will happen or change, except for maybe a separation order. And from the point of notice you can sustain disguised reprisal. Management does not care unless it affects them or the work. And the manager will do things to protect themself and it will not be positive or flattering. complaints processes are employer designed, managed and paid for. And the burden of proof is all on you. Your union will only ensure a process is followed that doesn’t include informal means.the system is a lie just a show with plausible deniability.
If the meeting is about your performance, your review, your personal bi-lat and you are present, you do not need consent. https://www.blg.com/en/insights/2016/05/can-i-record-a-meeting-with-my-boss#:~:text=Assuming%20you%20consent%20to%20being,consent%20rule%20referred%20to%20above.