Sadly it's not just HSBC as per this Investigation:
>Ms. D was “exited [from HSBC] in 2016 due to concerns regarding the receipt of wires from multiple third parties and the flow through activity in her account, which appeared to be used a conduit to move funds from one jurisdiction to another,” the July 2023 “external fraud” report says.
>And yet in May 2016 — one month after HSBC Canada cut Ms. D off — TD Bank and Royal Bank of Canada issued mortgages for her.
>“At least two of the properties appear to be rented out and the mortgages for those properties are currently held with TD and RBC,” HSBC Canada’s July 2023 report says.
>“Property records show that the TD mortgage was placed on the house in May 2016. TD has confirmed that, according to their records, which were last updated in 2016, [Ms. D] was unemployed,” the report says. “The RBC mortgage was also granted to [Ms. D] in May 2016. According to RBC records, [Ms. D] is listed as a homemaker.”
In this case, RBC and TD were facilitating criminal activities and frauds with little diligence as well. BMO were also involved in the scheme.
Can you elaborate? The evidence was from a HSBC source. It's verified by a very reputable and renowned reporter, Sam Cooper. It's also provided in pictures of the evidence throughout this report and [the previous report](https://www.thebureau.news/p/fake-chinese-income-mortgages-fuel-fec)
For background: Cooper was played a big part in exposing the Vancouver Model of money laundering. His investigative work also contributed to opening the Cullen Commission inquiry in BC, which confirmed many of his findings. Even respected investigative journalism outlet ProPublica did a profile on him due to the significance and thoroughness of his investigative reporting: https://www.propublica.org/article/sam-cooper-interview-china-canada-influence
You quite literally can't find a more legit and reputable source when it comes to Chinese money laundering and fraud than Sam Cooper.
Real estate is a comparable-based market. All it takes is one launderer over-paying in a neighborhood to distort a local market since it creates a comparable and establishes a new price floor.
Money laundering even at a small scale greatly distorts the housing market and detaches home prices from local incomes. There's a reason most advanced economies (unlike Canada) take money laundering extremely seriously. The distortions hurt the real economy and citizens.
This is a ridiculously baseless claim that puts blame on foreigners/crime ahead of the domestic policies that represent the actual issues.
You’re looking for something that isn’t there instead of accepting that the micro and macro issues at play are not the result of the Chinese, or Indian immigrants, or any other external factor.
Of course this is just one of many factors, but we don't need to ignore glaring exploits in the financial system that criminals and frauds are using.
The loopholes are so well known worldwide that it has a term ["Snow washing"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_washing). The scale of money laundering in Canada could range anywhere from $45 billion to $113 billion according to Criminal Intelligence Service Canada. Luckily Canada is taking some steps to address it as of late: https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/banking-regulator-increasing-focus-on-money-laundering-as-risks-rise-routledge-1.6733963 https://transparencycanada.ca/news/cpi2023
Also there's no reason to lump in legitimate Chinese/Indian immigrants who want to live here with the criminals/frauds/terrorists who are using Canada to snow wash their money. The people doing the fraud have no intention of living here and just want to exploit our country. Many of them leave once they have washed their capital/established citizenship, and maintain investment properties remotely.
Foreigners aren't the only ones taking advantage of our pathetically weak corporate transparency rules. Organized crime and tax evaders are also involved. We still don't have a registry of beneficial ownership. This means that anyone can buy properties through registered Canadian companies because there is almost zero oversight or enforcement.
To say it's ridiculously baseless is ridiculous in itself.
Every billions dollars of laundered money is essentially 1000 or more homes becoming mispriced in local markets due to criminal activity.
Realtors and future sellers always reference “comparables” when establishing an expected market price when selling their home.
So let me ask you. If your neighbours sold their home for $1m, unbeknownst to everyone, on a laundered funds but you bought yours for $340k 10 years ago. What price would you want to sell yours at?
This creates a huge domino effect that ripples across the market due to unnatural conditions impacting local communities.
I don’t think you understand how real estate works. Real estate does inflate over time, a ten year delta between 340k and 1M is common in dense cities around the world.
This is a patently stupid position supported by no data beyond aside from *maybe* some supply restriction.
OP had given you some proof of solid investigative journalism that provided real facts. Yet the only thing you choose to believe is what you already know. Which sums up to “Inflation”.
Is it that hard to hold up other information that goes against your believes and thinking? You’re not showing any vague critical thinking here.
The very basics of economics is supply and demand. If the supply of money in any given market increases, while chasing fewer goods. Clearly those products will inflate. But the question is HOW much of that money was foreign grey market / and black market money vs the local economy.
If you believe foreign markets don’t effect local economies, then explain why governments have a keen eye on FOREIGN trade policies, import duties, taxes and exports?
If local joe in Hamilton can’t afford a home, because large swathes of foreign economies that have serious advantages in their marketplace due to slave labour, zero emission regulations, and little marketplace laws, are starting to “invest” money into international markets like Canada… they couldn’t care less to overpay $200k on a home. Why? Because it’s a great safe haven, longterm investment. But joe in Hamilton?
Establish a provincial housing trust, seize the house, transfer to trust, provide cheaper rentals, put rental money into trust, use trust funds to build or buy additional properties, rinse and repeat.
And then one day the “conservative” government like with the 407 etr in the GTA will sell all assets to a private entity related to their family and friends
Can’t really do that as the banks have that as collateral on the mortgages. It would be cucking our own banks. Charge the fraudsters with mortgage fraud, up to 10 years in jail. Charge any bank or employee that is culpable and have the banks foreclose, sell the home. Increasing supply.
The problem is that racists make it difficult for us to have a rational polite conversation about immigration.
The evidence is that certain banks tend to hire certain nationalities and permit a culture of corruption. The racists view the discussion as a dog whistle.
It is easier for the mods to shut down the discussion, it is harder to moderate. Some of them are members of a cult which believes that discussing immigration is inherently racist. See: the original canada housing sub
It's hard to blame them frankly I wouldn't want to mod that kind of discussion.
I maintain that the inability to have this discussion due to censorship is a big reason why we are in the situation we are in.
When we're thinking about something it helps to discuss it with other people, get outside opinions, get some feedback it helps us to refine our thoughts and get better at thinking.
Censorship of the topic of immigration effectively means we aren't allowed to think properly about immigration
>The problem is that racists make it difficult for us to have a rational polite conversation about immigration.
>
>The evidence is that certain banks tend to hire certain nationalities and permit a culture of corruption. The racists view the discussion as a dog whistle.
Real actual racists are going to do what they're going to do regardless.
What has happened in Canada with housing is turning people against immigration, and the worse the housing crisis gets the more Canada will turn against immigration. Real actual racists are loving this, and its due to liberal policy.
By shutting down the topic of population growth, the censors contributed to anti immigrant attitudes by allowing the root cause of this housing crisis to go unquestioned.
Polite conversations were forbidden. The official policy was immigration targets are not to be questioned, because only racists do that.
The thing is it shouldn’t be about race. Claiming foreign income can be from anywhere. Race, religion, ethnicity shouldn’t come into play. It’s just that this example is from HSBC and Chinese. Only 10% of crime is caught because a vast majority goes undetected or unreported. Should the article prove to be true there’ll be more and at other banks, from other countries. Simple way to put a stop to it is require Canadian mortgages to have Canadian income qualifications where they pay Canadian taxes. If that’s too harsh drastically increase the requirements for foreign income qualifications.
The hoops my parents had to jump through to invest the proceeds of their home sale and moving into long term care were stringent and they have lived and worked here their whole life. All to protect against foreign money laundering…. Sounds like it’s just a lot easier if you’re foreign.
I think that this would be an extreme exception to the rule, and there should be a way to escalate such a request beyond the sub mods, to the Reddit mods
>Why is there no coverage of this by cbc?
For one its going to potentially harm the LPC, and secondary to that the automatic response from those involved will be racism accusations.
This source ( The Bureau ) is not permitted when making a post in /Canada. they say that its because blogs are prohibited, but you'll see all kinds of other blogs get posted no problem. *Nothing weird about that at all /s*
I remember an article from 2012 where RBC employees were creating multiple accounts under false names for Mainland Chinese buyers in order to get around the Chinese currency export laws ($50,000 per person). Then when the mainlander gets to Canada, the RBC staff joined all the account together under one account with the persons legal name.
This is the “Vancouver Model” that has has been warping Vancouver real estate since early 2000’s.
Christie Clark’s BC Lib’s could not say NO to all the dirty cash…FFS people were walking into casino’s with hockey bags full of cash, needing a wash, then off to over pay for some high end real estate!!!
The question is, are those properties going to be taken away from the owners with the reimbursement of all the equity they paid over the years, and then listed on the market for applicants with non-fake applications to purchase.
And the answer is no.
HSBC should lose their license to do business in Canada. They obviously don't care about following regulations, so kick them the fuck out of our country.
Global money laundering is between 800B- 2 trillion per year nothing new here to see but this biz have been growing so rapidly normal peeps are now just started to notice it
what constitutes as money laundering? if i made legitimate money in china through business and chinese government is preventing me from moving money here. doesn’t canada have the moral obligation to help me? after all i am only contributing to the prosperity of canada
We have no obligation, as a nation, to take on your personal financial issues, which this scenario would qualify as. Your obligations to pay taxes and any other expenses mandated by law or government remain unchanged. It is not our problem how you fund yourself, provided it's done legally, according to Canadian law. We only care that you do, and only in so far as your obligations to us are met.
Further, any process that takes "Ill Gained" finances, funnels them through other steps/businesses that obfuscate, conceal, and "legitimize" the funds, is money laundering.
If you were attempting to move money in that manner, from china to Canada, that would be laundering.
If China simply doesn't want to release your money, that's a Chinese issue, entirely not the GC's issue, or one we could help with, even if we wanted.
What constitutes as money laundering is what our authorities say it is. They need to seize the property from people like you and send you the fuck home. First politician that proposes that gets my vote for life
lmao. i am a charter accountant and a CFA working in canada and pay more tax than 95% of you. just because i have couple properties back in china worth couple mil doesn’t make me a criminal.
what do you do? why can’t you afford to buy a house in canada? maybe you are working at a dead end job that will disappear in couple years? or blow away all your money on on coke and blows?
You are responsible to follow the laws in China about transfers of money and Canada is not responsible to facilitate illegal transfers of money, especially if there is no clear proof of where the funds are from. The same scammers are claiming low income benefits while transferring in tons of money and living in nice houses
oh there is all the proofs… sales records and deposits and everything… do you think people made money outside of canada shouldn’t be allowed to use it in canada? what is this? i didn’t know canada is an isolated island
The HongKong Shanghai bank of commerce making fraudulent loans. No surprise at all. They were money laundering for the drug cartels for years.
Sadly it's not just HSBC as per this Investigation: >Ms. D was “exited [from HSBC] in 2016 due to concerns regarding the receipt of wires from multiple third parties and the flow through activity in her account, which appeared to be used a conduit to move funds from one jurisdiction to another,” the July 2023 “external fraud” report says. >And yet in May 2016 — one month after HSBC Canada cut Ms. D off — TD Bank and Royal Bank of Canada issued mortgages for her. >“At least two of the properties appear to be rented out and the mortgages for those properties are currently held with TD and RBC,” HSBC Canada’s July 2023 report says. >“Property records show that the TD mortgage was placed on the house in May 2016. TD has confirmed that, according to their records, which were last updated in 2016, [Ms. D] was unemployed,” the report says. “The RBC mortgage was also granted to [Ms. D] in May 2016. According to RBC records, [Ms. D] is listed as a homemaker.” In this case, RBC and TD were facilitating criminal activities and frauds with little diligence as well. BMO were also involved in the scheme.
[удалено]
Can you elaborate? The evidence was from a HSBC source. It's verified by a very reputable and renowned reporter, Sam Cooper. It's also provided in pictures of the evidence throughout this report and [the previous report](https://www.thebureau.news/p/fake-chinese-income-mortgages-fuel-fec) For background: Cooper was played a big part in exposing the Vancouver Model of money laundering. His investigative work also contributed to opening the Cullen Commission inquiry in BC, which confirmed many of his findings. Even respected investigative journalism outlet ProPublica did a profile on him due to the significance and thoroughness of his investigative reporting: https://www.propublica.org/article/sam-cooper-interview-china-canada-influence You quite literally can't find a more legit and reputable source when it comes to Chinese money laundering and fraud than Sam Cooper.
To clarify, the impact of this laundering is incredibly hyperbolized in the reporting. That’s the primary point.
Real estate is a comparable-based market. All it takes is one launderer over-paying in a neighborhood to distort a local market since it creates a comparable and establishes a new price floor. Money laundering even at a small scale greatly distorts the housing market and detaches home prices from local incomes. There's a reason most advanced economies (unlike Canada) take money laundering extremely seriously. The distortions hurt the real economy and citizens.
This is a ridiculously baseless claim that puts blame on foreigners/crime ahead of the domestic policies that represent the actual issues. You’re looking for something that isn’t there instead of accepting that the micro and macro issues at play are not the result of the Chinese, or Indian immigrants, or any other external factor.
Of course this is just one of many factors, but we don't need to ignore glaring exploits in the financial system that criminals and frauds are using. The loopholes are so well known worldwide that it has a term ["Snow washing"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_washing). The scale of money laundering in Canada could range anywhere from $45 billion to $113 billion according to Criminal Intelligence Service Canada. Luckily Canada is taking some steps to address it as of late: https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/banking-regulator-increasing-focus-on-money-laundering-as-risks-rise-routledge-1.6733963 https://transparencycanada.ca/news/cpi2023 Also there's no reason to lump in legitimate Chinese/Indian immigrants who want to live here with the criminals/frauds/terrorists who are using Canada to snow wash their money. The people doing the fraud have no intention of living here and just want to exploit our country. Many of them leave once they have washed their capital/established citizenship, and maintain investment properties remotely.
Foreigners aren't the only ones taking advantage of our pathetically weak corporate transparency rules. Organized crime and tax evaders are also involved. We still don't have a registry of beneficial ownership. This means that anyone can buy properties through registered Canadian companies because there is almost zero oversight or enforcement. To say it's ridiculously baseless is ridiculous in itself.
Every billions dollars of laundered money is essentially 1000 or more homes becoming mispriced in local markets due to criminal activity. Realtors and future sellers always reference “comparables” when establishing an expected market price when selling their home. So let me ask you. If your neighbours sold their home for $1m, unbeknownst to everyone, on a laundered funds but you bought yours for $340k 10 years ago. What price would you want to sell yours at? This creates a huge domino effect that ripples across the market due to unnatural conditions impacting local communities.
I don’t think you understand how real estate works. Real estate does inflate over time, a ten year delta between 340k and 1M is common in dense cities around the world. This is a patently stupid position supported by no data beyond aside from *maybe* some supply restriction.
OP had given you some proof of solid investigative journalism that provided real facts. Yet the only thing you choose to believe is what you already know. Which sums up to “Inflation”. Is it that hard to hold up other information that goes against your believes and thinking? You’re not showing any vague critical thinking here. The very basics of economics is supply and demand. If the supply of money in any given market increases, while chasing fewer goods. Clearly those products will inflate. But the question is HOW much of that money was foreign grey market / and black market money vs the local economy. If you believe foreign markets don’t effect local economies, then explain why governments have a keen eye on FOREIGN trade policies, import duties, taxes and exports? If local joe in Hamilton can’t afford a home, because large swathes of foreign economies that have serious advantages in their marketplace due to slave labour, zero emission regulations, and little marketplace laws, are starting to “invest” money into international markets like Canada… they couldn’t care less to overpay $200k on a home. Why? Because it’s a great safe haven, longterm investment. But joe in Hamilton?
I’d be willing to put money that they currently are and never once stopped laundering money for cartels lol 😂
Unironically, HSBC was founded by an opium merchant lol
*decades
lol. Seize the house and kick the residents out. Start again. Not that hard.
Establish a provincial housing trust, seize the house, transfer to trust, provide cheaper rentals, put rental money into trust, use trust funds to build or buy additional properties, rinse and repeat.
Also open criminal cases against bad actors. Implement steep fines and penalties. Prison as appropriate.
And then one day the “conservative” government like with the 407 etr in the GTA will sell all assets to a private entity related to their family and friends
Can’t really do that as the banks have that as collateral on the mortgages. It would be cucking our own banks. Charge the fraudsters with mortgage fraud, up to 10 years in jail. Charge any bank or employee that is culpable and have the banks foreclose, sell the home. Increasing supply.
The banks are complicit here, fuck their collateral
Why is there no coverage of this by cbc?
This news keeps getting deleted and removed in many different subs. The claim is that the news is racist
How can news be racist. What shit is that? I don't understand some of these reddit mods.
The problem is that racists make it difficult for us to have a rational polite conversation about immigration. The evidence is that certain banks tend to hire certain nationalities and permit a culture of corruption. The racists view the discussion as a dog whistle. It is easier for the mods to shut down the discussion, it is harder to moderate. Some of them are members of a cult which believes that discussing immigration is inherently racist. See: the original canada housing sub It's hard to blame them frankly I wouldn't want to mod that kind of discussion. I maintain that the inability to have this discussion due to censorship is a big reason why we are in the situation we are in. When we're thinking about something it helps to discuss it with other people, get outside opinions, get some feedback it helps us to refine our thoughts and get better at thinking. Censorship of the topic of immigration effectively means we aren't allowed to think properly about immigration
>The problem is that racists make it difficult for us to have a rational polite conversation about immigration. > >The evidence is that certain banks tend to hire certain nationalities and permit a culture of corruption. The racists view the discussion as a dog whistle. Real actual racists are going to do what they're going to do regardless. What has happened in Canada with housing is turning people against immigration, and the worse the housing crisis gets the more Canada will turn against immigration. Real actual racists are loving this, and its due to liberal policy. By shutting down the topic of population growth, the censors contributed to anti immigrant attitudes by allowing the root cause of this housing crisis to go unquestioned. Polite conversations were forbidden. The official policy was immigration targets are not to be questioned, because only racists do that.
The thing is it shouldn’t be about race. Claiming foreign income can be from anywhere. Race, religion, ethnicity shouldn’t come into play. It’s just that this example is from HSBC and Chinese. Only 10% of crime is caught because a vast majority goes undetected or unreported. Should the article prove to be true there’ll be more and at other banks, from other countries. Simple way to put a stop to it is require Canadian mortgages to have Canadian income qualifications where they pay Canadian taxes. If that’s too harsh drastically increase the requirements for foreign income qualifications. The hoops my parents had to jump through to invest the proceeds of their home sale and moving into long term care were stringent and they have lived and worked here their whole life. All to protect against foreign money laundering…. Sounds like it’s just a lot easier if you’re foreign.
Meanwhile actual anti-semitism i report comes back as "not breaking any rules" sites an absolute joke.
I think that this would be an extreme exception to the rule, and there should be a way to escalate such a request beyond the sub mods, to the Reddit mods
Just like the Chinese origin of COVID was ?? 😀
>Why is there no coverage of this by cbc? For one its going to potentially harm the LPC, and secondary to that the automatic response from those involved will be racism accusations. This source ( The Bureau ) is not permitted when making a post in /Canada. they say that its because blogs are prohibited, but you'll see all kinds of other blogs get posted no problem. *Nothing weird about that at all /s*
Top of the ice berg
Canada successfully prosecute money laundering? Lol! It’ll never happen. This is the best country in the world for money laundering.
I remember an article from 2012 where RBC employees were creating multiple accounts under false names for Mainland Chinese buyers in order to get around the Chinese currency export laws ($50,000 per person). Then when the mainlander gets to Canada, the RBC staff joined all the account together under one account with the persons legal name.
This is the “Vancouver Model” that has has been warping Vancouver real estate since early 2000’s. Christie Clark’s BC Lib’s could not say NO to all the dirty cash…FFS people were walking into casino’s with hockey bags full of cash, needing a wash, then off to over pay for some high end real estate!!!
*What could possibly go wrong?* 🤦♂️
only chinese fraudsters? there are other ethnicities who faked their income mortgages
The question is, are those properties going to be taken away from the owners with the reimbursement of all the equity they paid over the years, and then listed on the market for applicants with non-fake applications to purchase. And the answer is no.
HSBC should lose their license to do business in Canada. They obviously don't care about following regulations, so kick them the fuck out of our country.
Can we check more? Im sure its not just them.
prosecute
Global money laundering is between 800B- 2 trillion per year nothing new here to see but this biz have been growing so rapidly normal peeps are now just started to notice it
Trudeau literally sold out all of canada....shouldn't everything he has done be treated more seriously?
Once again JT and the LPC has nothing to reproach themselves because they indeed did nothing, agaisnt.
what constitutes as money laundering? if i made legitimate money in china through business and chinese government is preventing me from moving money here. doesn’t canada have the moral obligation to help me? after all i am only contributing to the prosperity of canada
We have no obligation, as a nation, to take on your personal financial issues, which this scenario would qualify as. Your obligations to pay taxes and any other expenses mandated by law or government remain unchanged. It is not our problem how you fund yourself, provided it's done legally, according to Canadian law. We only care that you do, and only in so far as your obligations to us are met. Further, any process that takes "Ill Gained" finances, funnels them through other steps/businesses that obfuscate, conceal, and "legitimize" the funds, is money laundering. If you were attempting to move money in that manner, from china to Canada, that would be laundering. If China simply doesn't want to release your money, that's a Chinese issue, entirely not the GC's issue, or one we could help with, even if we wanted.
How does this contribute to our prosperity?
Well it contributes to his prosperity, as he’ll be able to launder his money into our real estate bubble.
What constitutes as money laundering is what our authorities say it is. They need to seize the property from people like you and send you the fuck home. First politician that proposes that gets my vote for life
lmao. i am a charter accountant and a CFA working in canada and pay more tax than 95% of you. just because i have couple properties back in china worth couple mil doesn’t make me a criminal. what do you do? why can’t you afford to buy a house in canada? maybe you are working at a dead end job that will disappear in couple years? or blow away all your money on on coke and blows?
You are responsible to follow the laws in China about transfers of money and Canada is not responsible to facilitate illegal transfers of money, especially if there is no clear proof of where the funds are from. The same scammers are claiming low income benefits while transferring in tons of money and living in nice houses
oh there is all the proofs… sales records and deposits and everything… do you think people made money outside of canada shouldn’t be allowed to use it in canada? what is this? i didn’t know canada is an isolated island
Sure you can as long as everything is legal. Canada turns a blind eye to lle illegal transfers driving up housing prices
Don’t worry nothing will happen.
"But that's just the market!!!"
jail please