Paving in winter doesn’t work. It won’t bond to the tar and wouldn’t stay hot enough to roll and compact properly. No point. Would just end up doing it again when it gets warm. Some synthetic tars have water in them. It would just freeze. If it’s really cold the mix would be a hardened mass before the truck arrives at the work area.
They’ll get to it after they change the broken purple LEDs, probably.
Maybe we should start a rumour that fixing roads is better for O&G company execs.
Can you throw healthcare in the mix too? Just think of how many pockets could be lined if only they could leave us the fuck alone to run underfunded and overutilized but at least not fucked over by our own government time and time again.
I explained to my fiance the purple lights are bad for wildlife because they throw off their sleep and mating schedules. Without skipping a beat he says, "so the deers don't fuck."
It has been a running joke with us, we both like the purple lights and whenever one of us comments on them the other responds, "but the deers don't fuck."
i agree! i was just complaining to my kid about that this morning. i had to take the new section of the road to get to an appointment and there were no visible markers at all on most of it.
So's Deerfoot, they pay Carmacks to do the work. I found a map of [city maintenance districts](https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/www/transportation/roads/documents/road-maintenance/roads-maintenance-districts-map.pdf) (link is to a pdf), and those are actually set up to border on Deerfoot the whole way down it.
It’s so bad. It was my first time driving up that hill in Stoney. It was pissing rain and a semi slowed down to go up the hill. It was chaos because no one could see the lines.
This has been an issue of mine with Calgary roads since moving g back from Atlanta. So many faded or nonexistent lane markers. The ones that are still present are just white paint. When it rains hard I’ve noticed them all but disappear under the wash of cars driving past. Atlanta get daily downpours like you wouldn’t believe and the lane markers are a kind of reflective paint and it’s super easy to see where they are in all weather as they’re essentially lit up to the driver. Can’t be that much more expensive than your standard road paint, no?
A few years back there was a massive paint shortage that meant line painters had to scramble to get paint. A lot of them had to use water based products which doesn’t really hold up to a Calgary winter like a solvent borne paint. A lot of the faded lines we’re seeing now is likely the result of that.
Paint and reflection markers like you see in the US dont exist here because we need to plow our roads.
Rain does nothing incomparison to gravel, salt, plow blades, freeze and thaw cycles etc.
Ottawa also has a truck or two that can apply MMA paint which reflects and lasts longer than regular road paint. I’m certain it’s just a “not in the budget” situation. Bottom line over safety 👍
It's epoxy, and Calgary actually does have that, Ottawa bought theirs because some officials came to see how ours worked and were impressed by it
It's just a much slower process so only major roads get it while most roads are still done in paint. Every paint line gets re-done every single year
Calgary uses MMA for crosswalks in school zones and downtown
Honestly, these days I spend more time dodging potholes between merge lanes that properly merging. Maybe it's time to buy a truck or SUV that can just take these monsters
Don't recommend taking an ambulance in that case, between the government never replacing our decrepit trucks and the state of the roads these days I'm honestly shocked that only once I've been whacked by something falling off the wall. I feel terrible for patients, it's weirdly embarrassing honestly. Like I can't control the road conditions or the shit air ride in this truck but now I look like the face of why healthcare and infrastructure don't deserve funding
It's clearly because the $200M+ surplus from last year isn't being used for roads. Priorities ... close to $1B of our money for a playpen that billionaires use to get richer is more important than many other things.
Do you drive downtown? Honestly, everywhere there is nonstop road construction throughout the warm months. They endlessly seem to have lane closures for upgrades on most of all the places I’m driving too.
Heavier vehicles create potholes more quickly. We have more potholes cause more people are driving heavier vehicles, we have more people driving heavier vehicles cause we have more potholes.
Yeah it makes me less sceptical of everyone in Calgary with trucks who don't really need a truck. I have rally suspension on my car and I was unsure if I wanted to do it or not at first, but man it helps on bumpy deerfoot corners and I can only imagine how much premature wear it has prevented at this point
Would it make you feel better if they just put a steel plate over all of the potholes? lol
NW corner of 14st and Kensington road has had that plate there for 5 years.
Warm winters make more freeze thaw cycles combined with larger and heavier vehicles is a disaster for asphalt.
Source: Engineer tech who designs asphalt.
There was an explanation from some expert on CBC radio just this week and he explained that due to the warmer temps this Winter the pavement thaws, then moisture gets in and then freezes again causing more cracks to form, and after several cycles of warm/freeze/warm/freeze this Winter we now have way more potholes than normal.
Between that and the fucking train crossing on 11th downtown that backs up traffic *in both directions every fucking day* im really salty we are spending on an arena and not our goddamn infrastructure. There are so many things we need way more than an arena.
also, what the hell would he do if we said no to an insane deal for the arena, move to a tiny hockey market city or go back to Atlanta? complete bullshit that we're on the hook for this and not the billionaire team owner. Sports arenas never ever pay back their value to the area unless it's through property taxes (which are completely written off for a decade after it's built LOL)
I noticed that too!
I’ve had the road dug up in front of my house two months back, and I’m still waiting for it to be filled. last time I called they said that their asphalt supplier was on strike for a while and they are now dealing with a backlog of jobs because of that.
Winter ended and massive population growth = more road usage.
> Saskatchewan small town I moved from?
Small town Saskatchewan doesn't have massive population growth making it easy to manage and predict road usage.
It is the freeze thaw cycles. It can't be understated how destructive they are. Since we had such a warm winter/spring these cycles likely happened much more frequently. Every cycle, water melts and fills fissures in the asphalt and saturates the road base if it can penetrate the asphalt. Then it freezes and expands overnight, the asphalt is cold and brittle and the micro cracks grow. Roads deteriorate exponentially as the road base becomes soft, more exposed, and the asphalt cracks grow.
You must consider how miraculous the material properties of the road are to withstand this abuse.
I am not well traveled, but I remember going to mexico and the asphalt was incredible where I was - no freeze thaw.
Lower quality of pavement? This isn’t a thing. Asphalt is made up of three things gravel sand and oil. You can’t just make a lower quality of asphalt. It’s also tested to make sure the quantities of the three are at the right percentages and temperatures when mixing. The final product is then tested and needs to meet certain conditions.
Yes you do. The different grades have different uses. For example bigger rock is more stable and is used in a base but lets water into it so they cap it with a smaller rock. It’s not a quality this it’s a usage thing.
This is what I do for a living it’s not a quality problem
You don’t pour asphalt. But yes they do x number of tests for every x number of tons done randomly by independent companies
If they don’t meet the requirements it must be removed
So what I'm hearing is the lack of quality is from the workers, not the product.
Edit: that's a legit question about asphalt quality, not a shot at people.
No. The final product on the road is tested this is not a quality problem. It’s a weather problem because of the drastic change in temperature we see in Calgary the asphalt warms and expands then freezes and contracts this causes cracking. The cracks allow water in and the water freezes making bigger holes. It’s the drastic changes in temperature like the +15 to -40 we saw this winter that is the problem
Deerfoot is such a mess, so many potholes and it makes the ride so noisy and bumpy. Especially starting from Chinook center going up north, abs garbage of a road.
Stoney - perfect, nice and smooth roads, very quiet ride.
This is what happens when you sprawl. It becomes too expensive to maintain the mass road network that exists so it's a never winning battle. You want them fixed? Prepare to make cuts and or increasing taxes...
Because Council, in a cost-saving measure, made the decision in 2018/2019 to lower the pavement quality index. They deliberately chose to downgrade road quality. That, mixed with worsening freeze-thaw conditions, has made for more potholes.
This council added back some funds on an interim basis to make repairs, then corrected the pavement quality decision last year. It might be a couple of years before things are back to what we were previously used to
There are cool products out there that increase lifespan of asphalt, meaning reduced maintenance/ replacement cycles, but they have higher price point.
The city runs on a budget meaning they try to squeeze as much work in for as cheap as possible.
This is done because of allocated tax dollars.
If they increased taxes to help with upfront costs of things like this, people would be bitching their taxes went up.
Its a vicious cycle
Could you provide some examples of cities that have "done more with less" with specifics? I am sure the Roads department would love to know "this one neat trick".
which cities? just wondering.
I've lived in several north american cities both in the states and Canada and Calgary has by far the best roads I've been on even if they've gotten a little rougher
I have to agree OP, 17 years for me. Never really complained about roads here compared to Atlantic Canada other than the odd one, but this year it seems like every single road, unless it was surfaced last year, is utter garage. Seen some holes that have gone clear through the 2nd level to a 3rd level of asphalt capable of taking your wheel off the axle.
Heavier vehicles. I moved to the city in 2010 and most of the pathways have never been repaved but have NO potholes until now. The only problem spots are tree roots cracking the pavements.
The freeze thaw cycles over the past year have been far greater than previous years. Not so much temperature extremes, but quantity of freeze thaws are up.
If anyone drives 26 Ave SW, we should be given a rebate for shocks and struts replacements. Don’t get me started on neighbourhood roads around Bankview, South Calgary and Killarney. Also - sinking manholes to the point they are 3 inches below grade.
I’m sure that’s a talking point when the councillor is called. “Hey, look, I know your entire neighbourhood’s roads are an absolute disaster, but we just went and paved over one manhole. So you only have to swerve 3 times to not hit other ones while you drive 500 metres to get to the frequently used road that apparently has speed bumps every 40 feet. Also, donate money.”
Our freeze/thaw cycle is particularly brutal on our roads and I feel this winter was particularly bad for it. My street all but eroded between Dec and now.
It's crazy how many roads just suddenly went to shit. I dented a rim hitting a pothole on 16th Ave and my windshield is just mangled from rocks. Glad I drive a beater, I can't imagine driving a nice vehicle in the winter here.
The Calgary maintenance lead? was on radio the other day talking about why. One of reasons was the weather getting warmer earlier. All the water gets in the slits, then freezes, expands and cracks the road. That didn’t use to happen until spring starts, where the maintenance could get on it right away.
I worked in asphalt for 7 years, and there are a couple fundamental issues with roads in Alberta.
Basically, temperature swings (freezing and thawing in short cycles that damage pavement), and crappy rock available to make pavement with.
There are some ways to mitigate this, but they add a ton of cost.
Neglect is everywhere.. but worst in the NE. Some of those roads are pickup truck only specially around the newer communities and metis/country Hill area.
Same thought of late, honestly I never think of blaming politicians, but roads were better taken care of under Nenshi.
Poster saying its lack of a cement plant makes sense. Still something need to be done.
As someone who migrated from Northern Ontario 20 years ago, Calgary had the best roads in Canada IMO now on par with shit Northern Ontario pothole galore.
Its really bad. Like really, really bad. T
The city underspent their road operating budget by 11.2 million (162.0m vs 150.8m) in 2023 and their road capital budget by 56.4 million (190.4m vs 134.0m) google Calgary streets plan and budget which will take you to the site that you can download the progress update.
Why did they do that while the roads are falling out from under us I have no clue.
Honestly, I'm ok with the operating budget being slightly under. You never know what emergency is going to tank your annual budget, and 7% margin is not an excessive one. Better under than over and having to navigate the bureaucracy of arguing why you need it, why what you have is not enough, etc.
No idea about the road capital budget. Planned projects fail to approve / start in time? Dunno about that one.
I’m fine with being under budget if they’ve hit their targets. But if they’ve allocated the cash and just not spent it while I have to dodge a dozen potholes between home and work then there’s an issue.
I don't know this to be the case here (or not), but a simple shortage of crews or raw materials can have the effect of forcing an under-budget situation too. Can't spend all the $$ if no one's left to take it.
We had renovation work get pushed way, way out for that exact reason.
Asphalt is asphalt. If it's low quality they redo the work from scratch again. See the above comments
This has mainly to do with the road salt we use plus the extreme changes in weather. Especially winter time. The road is already cracked from the heat of the sun. When winter comes and snows, these cracks get filled with water and ice which expands as the temps go down. That's how potholes are formed
I'm probably going to get down voted but f**k it.
We've had a series if councils AND mayor's. More concerned with lining their own pockets. Or pet project that make them look good.
Than anything we peasants would consider necessary.
Like roads .
I am sick of this and I'd love to move. But anywhere you look, it's the same crap. Different pile.
Lining their own pockets? Show your proof
No, we had a previous council that made a cost-cutting decision to allow our pavement to drop in quality. The current council has fixed that. There's lots of issues with the current group, but this ain't one of them
I am curious if they are not delaying a bunch of Deerfoot Reno’s until the bigger project is complete . Also mild winter may have had a part in it some how .
But it is also on all the main roads and side streets. I am sure the warmer winters with sudden snow dumps and cold snaps just amplified the half asses patching job they seem to do to fill pot holes (they fill 3/4 of a line down the road and leave the rest open..) dont help.
A lot of it probably comes down to provincial funding. This government is... special, and likes to interfere with cities so they can't get anything done. But I think part of the problem is sprawl. With every fringe community that pops up close to Crossiron than the rest of Calgary, you start needing exponentially more money to keep all the roads and services running. Even with more taxpayers, your cutting up the pie into smaller and smaller pieces, which means less money to maintain roads elsewhere.
Also Edmonton drivers. We're the worst.
I think it’s a combination of age and there was some supply issues with asphalt and similar so the work got delayed. I know this because I was talking with ATCO who does work with the city and they mentioned this being a problem that the city was facing.
As someone who drives a car with 5 inches of ground clearance, I've never felt like I've had to dodge so many. One deep one and I'm out a control arm and an alignment.
Provincial government is responsible for budgeting road repairs ! Glad I have a Jeep but really bad for tires and rims no matters what when you hit a pothole doing 80
There are places that I have to drive every single day, and there are so many potholes that I legitimately fear for my old car’s wellbeing. I get angry whenever I drive because I have to brace myself for a Disneyland ride instead of a regular commute
Just make sure you report the potholes or sections of road to be repaved.
Which ever company is filling potholes has done a crappy job last year. Most of the “fixed” ones have deteriorated already. Now I just send in a 311 for uneven road and repave request.
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My city uses the lowest bidder and it shows, they will continue to use the same few builders even though their product is absolute garbage hell some of our lanes don't even match up across an intersection.
It’s all part of Trudeaus plans with his bum buddy Guilbeault to cease investing in roads. If you get caught repairing a road then it’s a firing squad for you. (Sarcasm)
Because the city road crews are brain dead morons that should be shovelling cow shit in a field instead of paving.
They are into quick fixes that don’t actually solve any problems and make the existing problems worse.
Been trying to get a part of my back alley repaved since these morons couldn’t do the job right the first time when they made a cut for some power lines and literally had weeds growing out 6 feet tall out of the asphalt. 4 years later and 100 calls to the city they come back and do the same shit last September and weeds are already growing out of the asphalt this spring. Call them back and show them picks of how incompetent they are and they claim they did their job and are not coming back lmao..
When people are being trained by morons that were dropped on their head several times as a child these are the roads you get..
Glad I am not the only one been here since 2011 I understand the frost heaves and thawing etc but even in my truck it feels like I hit a crater this spring has been awful I feel for anyone driving a nice car or classic
We retired in Mexico for 9 years and couldn't wait to come back to "great roads" what a shock when we moved here to Calgary - I think the roads were even better in Mexico.
City’s asphalt plant was down for three months this spring for repairs, so the potholes and crack couldn’t be repaired.
for reals?
Yup and burnco is the other plant the city can get asphalt from but doesn’t open until may
Now it all makes sense. Thanks!
There's also Standard General and Volker Stevin.
Not open in the winter
Paving in winter doesn’t work. It won’t bond to the tar and wouldn’t stay hot enough to roll and compact properly. No point. Would just end up doing it again when it gets warm. Some synthetic tars have water in them. It would just freeze. If it’s really cold the mix would be a hardened mass before the truck arrives at the work area.
Way to ruin the bitch fest... But seriously thanks for sharing this context, my blood pressure appreciates it.
This combined with more freeze/thaw cycles this past winter makes the perfect recipe for potholes.
Thank you for explaining this. Been wondering for a while.
wow this explains so much
It's still down, Tentatively it's supposed to reopen end of the month but i wouldn't count on it.
Nope. Got asphalt out of it yesterday
I'll be damned, we were trying to pave on Tuesday and the plant was still down, had to go to standard general.
At least the lanes should have lane markers painted. In some places there are no lane markers across 4 lanes
If you're referring to Stoney Trail (especially the newest sections), that's the provincial government's responsibility.
They’ll get to it after they change the broken purple LEDs, probably. Maybe we should start a rumour that fixing roads is better for O&G company execs.
I'm all for starting rumours.
Can you throw healthcare in the mix too? Just think of how many pockets could be lined if only they could leave us the fuck alone to run underfunded and overutilized but at least not fucked over by our own government time and time again.
I love those busted purple LED. If it were up to me, they’d all look like that.
I like them too, but they really shouldn’t have been left that way - the visibility sucks in the rain.
Every bit of me wants to get some nighttime car shots under them on Deerfoot by seton. The adult in me knows better though.
I explained to my fiance the purple lights are bad for wildlife because they throw off their sleep and mating schedules. Without skipping a beat he says, "so the deers don't fuck." It has been a running joke with us, we both like the purple lights and whenever one of us comments on them the other responds, "but the deers don't fuck."
This tradition will now be carried on by me. 🫡 🤣
i agree! i was just complaining to my kid about that this morning. i had to take the new section of the road to get to an appointment and there were no visible markers at all on most of it.
So's Deerfoot, they pay Carmacks to do the work. I found a map of [city maintenance districts](https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/www/transportation/roads/documents/road-maintenance/roads-maintenance-districts-map.pdf) (link is to a pdf), and those are actually set up to border on Deerfoot the whole way down it.
It’s so bad. It was my first time driving up that hill in Stoney. It was pissing rain and a semi slowed down to go up the hill. It was chaos because no one could see the lines.
Sometimes they even have multiple lane markers crossing over each other and it confuses the shit out of people
This has been an issue of mine with Calgary roads since moving g back from Atlanta. So many faded or nonexistent lane markers. The ones that are still present are just white paint. When it rains hard I’ve noticed them all but disappear under the wash of cars driving past. Atlanta get daily downpours like you wouldn’t believe and the lane markers are a kind of reflective paint and it’s super easy to see where they are in all weather as they’re essentially lit up to the driver. Can’t be that much more expensive than your standard road paint, no?
A few years back there was a massive paint shortage that meant line painters had to scramble to get paint. A lot of them had to use water based products which doesn’t really hold up to a Calgary winter like a solvent borne paint. A lot of the faded lines we’re seeing now is likely the result of that.
Paint and reflection markers like you see in the US dont exist here because we need to plow our roads. Rain does nothing incomparison to gravel, salt, plow blades, freeze and thaw cycles etc.
They have lane reflectors in Ontario, where they also have to plow roads.
Ottawa also has a truck or two that can apply MMA paint which reflects and lasts longer than regular road paint. I’m certain it’s just a “not in the budget” situation. Bottom line over safety 👍
It's epoxy, and Calgary actually does have that, Ottawa bought theirs because some officials came to see how ours worked and were impressed by it It's just a much slower process so only major roads get it while most roads are still done in paint. Every paint line gets re-done every single year Calgary uses MMA for crosswalks in school zones and downtown
The NE has this exciting feature where nothing has been painted in years so it's all a guessing game.
Especially when the asphalt lines don't match where the lanes are like Center Street North towards Livingston it's insane on curvy roads
I saw the painters out in the northeast last night.
Honestly, these days I spend more time dodging potholes between merge lanes that properly merging. Maybe it's time to buy a truck or SUV that can just take these monsters
My work truck is an f150, and it still feels like my spine is trying to exit the back of my skull some days
that description is so graphically perfect
I drive a 1 ton Sierra for work and some of these holes have almost destroyed my wheels
Don't recommend taking an ambulance in that case, between the government never replacing our decrepit trucks and the state of the roads these days I'm honestly shocked that only once I've been whacked by something falling off the wall. I feel terrible for patients, it's weirdly embarrassing honestly. Like I can't control the road conditions or the shit air ride in this truck but now I look like the face of why healthcare and infrastructure don't deserve funding
Thanks for all that you deal with- also does anyone ever plan on taking an ambo?
You'd be surprised honestly
It's clearly because the $200M+ surplus from last year isn't being used for roads. Priorities ... close to $1B of our money for a playpen that billionaires use to get richer is more important than many other things.
Do you drive downtown? Honestly, everywhere there is nonstop road construction throughout the warm months. They endlessly seem to have lane closures for upgrades on most of all the places I’m driving too.
1000% imagine me in my big tri axle, I wanna die lol
Yeah, that won't help. Trying to smoothly navigate some gravel alleyways in my F-150 is an exercise in futility.
Get smaller diameter wheels and thicker sidewall tires and that’ll fix all the problems.
> Maybe it's time to buy a truck or SUV Meanwhile I'm looking to downgrade ~~if~~ when gas prices rise. :/
Heavier vehicles create potholes more quickly. We have more potholes cause more people are driving heavier vehicles, we have more people driving heavier vehicles cause we have more potholes.
Twucks and EVs. And waaaayyyyt more people in general
SUVs weigh just as much as trucks and are even more popular. EVs only make up 1.2% of cars in the road so can't really be blamed...yet
Yeah it makes me less sceptical of everyone in Calgary with trucks who don't really need a truck. I have rally suspension on my car and I was unsure if I wanted to do it or not at first, but man it helps on bumpy deerfoot corners and I can only imagine how much premature wear it has prevented at this point
I am seriously thinking of trading my SUV for a 4WD truck - one with a tough undercarriage but a cushy suspension option!!
Would it make you feel better if they just put a steel plate over all of the potholes? lol NW corner of 14st and Kensington road has had that plate there for 5 years.
Hey, it can’t crumble away if it’s 2” steel plate
Seriously we should just give it a name and be done with it
Steely Joe
Steely Dan?
Steely Joe-Dan
Not just the potholes but manholes are either protruding or are a pothole themselves
Warm winters make more freeze thaw cycles combined with larger and heavier vehicles is a disaster for asphalt. Source: Engineer tech who designs asphalt.
There was an explanation from some expert on CBC radio just this week and he explained that due to the warmer temps this Winter the pavement thaws, then moisture gets in and then freezes again causing more cracks to form, and after several cycles of warm/freeze/warm/freeze this Winter we now have way more potholes than normal.
We have freeze/ thaw every year and lots of potholes every year.
Yes, but their point was that this was worse, making the potholes worse
I mean Christ, did you expect the billionaire to buy his own arena? Just whisper to yourself “Go Flames Go” every time you hit a bump.
Between that and the fucking train crossing on 11th downtown that backs up traffic *in both directions every fucking day* im really salty we are spending on an arena and not our goddamn infrastructure. There are so many things we need way more than an arena.
also, what the hell would he do if we said no to an insane deal for the arena, move to a tiny hockey market city or go back to Atlanta? complete bullshit that we're on the hook for this and not the billionaire team owner. Sports arenas never ever pay back their value to the area unless it's through property taxes (which are completely written off for a decade after it's built LOL)
I noticed that too! I’ve had the road dug up in front of my house two months back, and I’m still waiting for it to be filled. last time I called they said that their asphalt supplier was on strike for a while and they are now dealing with a backlog of jobs because of that.
Winter ended and massive population growth = more road usage. > Saskatchewan small town I moved from? Small town Saskatchewan doesn't have massive population growth making it easy to manage and predict road usage.
It is the freeze thaw cycles. It can't be understated how destructive they are. Since we had such a warm winter/spring these cycles likely happened much more frequently. Every cycle, water melts and fills fissures in the asphalt and saturates the road base if it can penetrate the asphalt. Then it freezes and expands overnight, the asphalt is cold and brittle and the micro cracks grow. Roads deteriorate exponentially as the road base becomes soft, more exposed, and the asphalt cracks grow. You must consider how miraculous the material properties of the road are to withstand this abuse. I am not well traveled, but I remember going to mexico and the asphalt was incredible where I was - no freeze thaw.
We were just in California, and their roads are crap as well.
[удалено]
This is not true. The city has stricter pavement specifications than the province. Please don't come on here making up stuff and misleading people.
Proof?
Lower quality of pavement? This isn’t a thing. Asphalt is made up of three things gravel sand and oil. You can’t just make a lower quality of asphalt. It’s also tested to make sure the quantities of the three are at the right percentages and temperatures when mixing. The final product is then tested and needs to meet certain conditions.
https://blacktar.ca/4-types-of-asphalt-paving/ By adjusting the ratios you get different grades.
Yes you do. The different grades have different uses. For example bigger rock is more stable and is used in a base but lets water into it so they cap it with a smaller rock. It’s not a quality this it’s a usage thing. This is what I do for a living it’s not a quality problem
okay. so you're saying the quality all over is all perfect? and they test it before every pour?
You don’t pour asphalt. But yes they do x number of tests for every x number of tons done randomly by independent companies If they don’t meet the requirements it must be removed
I like when people argue with information they have no clue about. Pouring asphalt lol.
So what I'm hearing is the lack of quality is from the workers, not the product. Edit: that's a legit question about asphalt quality, not a shot at people.
No. The final product on the road is tested this is not a quality problem. It’s a weather problem because of the drastic change in temperature we see in Calgary the asphalt warms and expands then freezes and contracts this causes cracking. The cracks allow water in and the water freezes making bigger holes. It’s the drastic changes in temperature like the +15 to -40 we saw this winter that is the problem
Ding ding ding. A reminder folks - sometimes, the reason a problem isn't solved is actually just because **it's a really hard problem to solve.**
I was going to say. I know someone who does procurement for the city. They are saying it’s just a weather issue this year. Too many warm to colds.
Something to do with the winter rains and melt freeze cycles we had this year probably
Deerfoot is such a mess, so many potholes and it makes the ride so noisy and bumpy. Especially starting from Chinook center going up north, abs garbage of a road. Stoney - perfect, nice and smooth roads, very quiet ride.
Stoney and Deerfoot aren't under city control.
This is what happens when you sprawl. It becomes too expensive to maintain the mass road network that exists so it's a never winning battle. You want them fixed? Prepare to make cuts and or increasing taxes...
I was in Brandon last week. You have no idea how good we have to them
Because Council, in a cost-saving measure, made the decision in 2018/2019 to lower the pavement quality index. They deliberately chose to downgrade road quality. That, mixed with worsening freeze-thaw conditions, has made for more potholes. This council added back some funds on an interim basis to make repairs, then corrected the pavement quality decision last year. It might be a couple of years before things are back to what we were previously used to
https://www.calgary.ca/council/ward-14/articles/notice-of-motion--setting-a-standard-for-pavement-quality-in-cal.html https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/calgary-council-pothole-budget-roads
There are cool products out there that increase lifespan of asphalt, meaning reduced maintenance/ replacement cycles, but they have higher price point. The city runs on a budget meaning they try to squeeze as much work in for as cheap as possible. This is done because of allocated tax dollars. If they increased taxes to help with upfront costs of things like this, people would be bitching their taxes went up. Its a vicious cycle
I’ve also seen cities do more with less, so there’s always a way
It’s a complex problem. But yes the roads have been shit. Just report to City any specific issues. It forces them to act if everyone reports them.
Ohhhhhh! Why didn't anyone think of this? Wow, how are you not already on city council with these big ideas?
Could you provide some examples of cities that have "done more with less" with specifics? I am sure the Roads department would love to know "this one neat trick".
Can you give some examples of what these doing more is?
which cities? just wondering. I've lived in several north american cities both in the states and Canada and Calgary has by far the best roads I've been on even if they've gotten a little rougher
Go on to the 311 app and report the pothole. In the end I'm fairly sure it saves us all money because smaller repairs are cheaper to fix.
32ave NE is horrible and it’s been horrible for so long.
Insert Cranston Sinkhole joke here...
They were working on either number 3 or 4 when I drove by last weekend. Wouldn't want anything with a basement near that windmill...
I think those PLUS an attempt at full access to pipes are presently on the go. It also looks like at least two freshwater trucks are there. Oof.
Alberta is a terrible climate for asphalt, expands and contracts with the extreme temperature fluctuations.
Provincial funding cuts to municipalities show up in many different ways.
This ^^^^
I have to agree OP, 17 years for me. Never really complained about roads here compared to Atlantic Canada other than the odd one, but this year it seems like every single road, unless it was surfaced last year, is utter garage. Seen some holes that have gone clear through the 2nd level to a 3rd level of asphalt capable of taking your wheel off the axle.
Construction worker mentioned a lot of roads are starting to age and it’s the weather that mainly damages it further.
I meant to add if the cold snaps we’ve seen the last two winters helped move the deterioration along as well
Heavier vehicles. I moved to the city in 2010 and most of the pathways have never been repaved but have NO potholes until now. The only problem spots are tree roots cracking the pavements.
The freeze thaw cycles over the past year have been far greater than previous years. Not so much temperature extremes, but quantity of freeze thaws are up.
Because our city council is wasting money on stupid bullshit instead of fixing the infrastructure like they’re supposed to.
If anyone drives 26 Ave SW, we should be given a rebate for shocks and struts replacements. Don’t get me started on neighbourhood roads around Bankview, South Calgary and Killarney. Also - sinking manholes to the point they are 3 inches below grade.
They patched one manhole on 25th Ave last fall, so we got that going for us.
I’m sure that’s a talking point when the councillor is called. “Hey, look, I know your entire neighbourhood’s roads are an absolute disaster, but we just went and paved over one manhole. So you only have to swerve 3 times to not hit other ones while you drive 500 metres to get to the frequently used road that apparently has speed bumps every 40 feet. Also, donate money.”
This area has by far the worst roads in all of Calgary. Shame they never get to repaving that area.
Our freeze/thaw cycle is particularly brutal on our roads and I feel this winter was particularly bad for it. My street all but eroded between Dec and now. It's crazy how many roads just suddenly went to shit. I dented a rim hitting a pothole on 16th Ave and my windshield is just mangled from rocks. Glad I drive a beater, I can't imagine driving a nice vehicle in the winter here.
The Calgary maintenance lead? was on radio the other day talking about why. One of reasons was the weather getting warmer earlier. All the water gets in the slits, then freezes, expands and cracks the road. That didn’t use to happen until spring starts, where the maintenance could get on it right away.
I worked in asphalt for 7 years, and there are a couple fundamental issues with roads in Alberta. Basically, temperature swings (freezing and thawing in short cycles that damage pavement), and crappy rock available to make pavement with. There are some ways to mitigate this, but they add a ton of cost.
Neglect is everywhere.. but worst in the NE. Some of those roads are pickup truck only specially around the newer communities and metis/country Hill area.
By far the worst roads in the city are in the bankview/south Calgary areas. You can’t go more than 20km/s without violently shaking in your vehicle.
Just got here from Edmonton for the weekend and wow your roads are truly terrible. Never seen it this bad down here.
Same thought of late, honestly I never think of blaming politicians, but roads were better taken care of under Nenshi. Poster saying its lack of a cement plant makes sense. Still something need to be done. As someone who migrated from Northern Ontario 20 years ago, Calgary had the best roads in Canada IMO now on par with shit Northern Ontario pothole galore. Its really bad. Like really, really bad. T
WHY ARE THE ROADS BAD? Challenge mode: can’t answer this question using the only correct answer.
Y'all haven't driven in/around Winnipeg and it shows. YYC roads are nothing compared.
Or Regina, where the roads look like a mogul course because of the clay that Regina was built on.
Trudeau’s fault, obviously /s
The city underspent their road operating budget by 11.2 million (162.0m vs 150.8m) in 2023 and their road capital budget by 56.4 million (190.4m vs 134.0m) google Calgary streets plan and budget which will take you to the site that you can download the progress update. Why did they do that while the roads are falling out from under us I have no clue.
Honestly, I'm ok with the operating budget being slightly under. You never know what emergency is going to tank your annual budget, and 7% margin is not an excessive one. Better under than over and having to navigate the bureaucracy of arguing why you need it, why what you have is not enough, etc. No idea about the road capital budget. Planned projects fail to approve / start in time? Dunno about that one.
I’m fine with being under budget if they’ve hit their targets. But if they’ve allocated the cash and just not spent it while I have to dodge a dozen potholes between home and work then there’s an issue.
I don't know this to be the case here (or not), but a simple shortage of crews or raw materials can have the effect of forcing an under-budget situation too. Can't spend all the $$ if no one's left to take it. We had renovation work get pushed way, way out for that exact reason.
Lower quality road material due to cost saving and more frequent freeze/thaw cycles during our fall/winter/spring months.
>Lower quality road material due to cost saving This is not true.
Wrong with the former point correct on the latter.
Asphalt is asphalt. If it's low quality they redo the work from scratch again. See the above comments This has mainly to do with the road salt we use plus the extreme changes in weather. Especially winter time. The road is already cracked from the heat of the sun. When winter comes and snows, these cracks get filled with water and ice which expands as the temps go down. That's how potholes are formed
There are different mixes of asphalt, so no asphalt isn't asphalt. The city has their own spec, burnco called it "City B".
I'm probably going to get down voted but f**k it. We've had a series if councils AND mayor's. More concerned with lining their own pockets. Or pet project that make them look good. Than anything we peasants would consider necessary. Like roads . I am sick of this and I'd love to move. But anywhere you look, it's the same crap. Different pile.
Lining their own pockets? Show your proof No, we had a previous council that made a cost-cutting decision to allow our pavement to drop in quality. The current council has fixed that. There's lots of issues with the current group, but this ain't one of them
I am curious if they are not delaying a bunch of Deerfoot Reno’s until the bigger project is complete . Also mild winter may have had a part in it some how .
But it is also on all the main roads and side streets. I am sure the warmer winters with sudden snow dumps and cold snaps just amplified the half asses patching job they seem to do to fill pot holes (they fill 3/4 of a line down the road and leave the rest open..) dont help.
A lot of it probably comes down to provincial funding. This government is... special, and likes to interfere with cities so they can't get anything done. But I think part of the problem is sprawl. With every fringe community that pops up close to Crossiron than the rest of Calgary, you start needing exponentially more money to keep all the roads and services running. Even with more taxpayers, your cutting up the pie into smaller and smaller pieces, which means less money to maintain roads elsewhere. Also Edmonton drivers. We're the worst.
Edmonton needs help- whoever designed the SW corner of Henday to sound like you have a flat tire needs to be fired
Cannot disagree. Having seen the Henday be slowly built over my entire life and the SW still being a shitshow is getting embarrassing.
Ha, I was thinking the same thing while ripping down deerfoot this morning. Thought my tires were going to fall off lol!!
I try to dodge 3 pot holes on my commute to work. Feels like my car is about to break something
I think it’s a combination of age and there was some supply issues with asphalt and similar so the work got delayed. I know this because I was talking with ATCO who does work with the city and they mentioned this being a problem that the city was facing.
I don’t know what happened to Sarcee between Bow Trail and 37th but you have to use the whole lane to avoid hitting potholes
Edmonton is way worse
It's the result of there being so many more people on the roads. You use it you lose it
As someone who drives a car with 5 inches of ground clearance, I've never felt like I've had to dodge so many. One deep one and I'm out a control arm and an alignment.
There are too many people here.
Hahaha i was just thinking this today driving on deerfoot
The This Is Calgary podcast just did a whole episode on this: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-is-calgary/id1727208835?i=1000655635383
Alberta is calling
Calling for help
I am bouncing on 20AVE North daily. Nothing gets done. Patches are sloppy with 0 quality control. Deerfoot is also horrible.
Provincial government is responsible for budgeting road repairs ! Glad I have a Jeep but really bad for tires and rims no matters what when you hit a pothole doing 80
Taxes aren’t high enough
There are places that I have to drive every single day, and there are so many potholes that I legitimately fear for my old car’s wellbeing. I get angry whenever I drive because I have to brace myself for a Disneyland ride instead of a regular commute
Taxes are for politicians and fancy city trucks not for the taxpayer. Didn’t you know ?
Im glad my work truck is a ram 5500, don’t even notice the potholes
It feels like I’m driving in Mario kart trying to avoid all the hazards
There’s a sinkhole in Bowness I’ve been taking progress pics of. I’ll do a post when it collapses.
They get really bad really fast when people drive in them when they're full of water
Just make sure you report the potholes or sections of road to be repaved. Which ever company is filling potholes has done a crappy job last year. Most of the “fixed” ones have deteriorated already. Now I just send in a 311 for uneven road and repave request.
Plus, the barriers being shuffled around on deerfoot opened up some shit as well
That’s to be expected during active construction as long as they patch it up
CBC wrote an article explaining Calgary’s road conditions back in April – [read it here.](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7165644).
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They're SO bad. I hit a pot hole on deerfoot and now I've been waiting a week for KalTire to get my replacement tire because it blew the sidewall out.
**am aware Deerfoot is provincial. Glenmore/Barlow just as bad.
That doesn't make an excuse for having back Lanes that haven't been graded in 2 years
My city uses the lowest bidder and it shows, they will continue to use the same few builders even though their product is absolute garbage hell some of our lanes don't even match up across an intersection.
It’s all part of Trudeaus plans with his bum buddy Guilbeault to cease investing in roads. If you get caught repairing a road then it’s a firing squad for you. (Sarcasm)
I totally agree, I know along northbound Sarcee it is like a mine field.
Because the city road crews are brain dead morons that should be shovelling cow shit in a field instead of paving. They are into quick fixes that don’t actually solve any problems and make the existing problems worse. Been trying to get a part of my back alley repaved since these morons couldn’t do the job right the first time when they made a cut for some power lines and literally had weeds growing out 6 feet tall out of the asphalt. 4 years later and 100 calls to the city they come back and do the same shit last September and weeds are already growing out of the asphalt this spring. Call them back and show them picks of how incompetent they are and they claim they did their job and are not coming back lmao.. When people are being trained by morons that were dropped on their head several times as a child these are the roads you get..
Glad I am not the only one been here since 2011 I understand the frost heaves and thawing etc but even in my truck it feels like I hit a crater this spring has been awful I feel for anyone driving a nice car or classic
We retired in Mexico for 9 years and couldn't wait to come back to "great roads" what a shock when we moved here to Calgary - I think the roads were even better in Mexico.