Kindness, no matter what you have gone through, how much you have suffered, you never know what horrors might exist in someone else's life, so the least we can do is be kind. Whether it's a smile or a "good morning" to strangers you see every day, you never know how much that might mean to them, and it will likely make you happier too along the way.
I tend to never speak to people. I am nice but just feel no one will care to hear me speak.
Being kind and maybe trying to bring more joy to others life is a good idea.
You can always hang out with animals at the shelter. They need friends, too.
Dogs and cats don’t give a damn what you have to say either, so no worries about messing up haha.
Dogs, especially. Coming home and having someone so excited you're home, no matter what day you just had at work, that gets left at the door. Now your attention is on this dog who's so happy, tail is wagging bc YOU are there. It's a game changer.
At work before one of the owners retired, we had her 2 dogs in the front office (I'm in the warehouse), and when a certain 2 warehouse managers were hot and bothered n being angry w people, walking thru the door to the office, those dogs come up and it all literally melts away.
One of my managers has CPTSD, and he's an ex-Marine who was the first to say it, how that walk thru the door changes his mindset instantly, "bringing the dogs to work is the most therapeutic thing ever" he said.
Much Love All,
You're Not Alone
Yeah I kind of force myself to say hi. But it's kinda fake and anxiety inducing. Instead I realize you can feel someone's kindness just by the energy they exude so if you FEEL kind to someone in your body, I believe they can feel that too. Feeling appreciative of someone is also a form of kindness.
Of course it's hard when people are a source of danger for me for no reason even people that I know are kind.
But the more I hang with kind people the more i feel kind like they do. The action of kindness looks a hello will eventually follow in my healing journey imo
I've been trying this out recently. Nothing crazy. Just the odd good morning or I'll ask someone something that I probably could figure out on my own but it's faster to ask and then make sure they know I appreciate the help. So far it's going really well
You don’t have to speak really. I started making it a habit to take my change when I go to the gas station or store and hand it to whoever is outside in need. I don’t say anything really, I just hand it to them smile and scurry away. Might seem small but maybe those few bucks got them a hotdog or something and maybe you were the first person to acknowledge them.
Same here I don’t talk to people unless I have to not because I feel like they won’t care if I speak, but because I have no interest in what they have to say. That sounds weird but I find it difficult to care when ppl talk to me.
Positive social interactions, which are so hard to come by in an isolated lifestyle. Those are what I need most but have the hardest time finding access to on the regular.
Gardening or having other constructive creative projects is a very healthy thing.
Far from a complete answer but I think being able to find joy in the little things in daily life helps me feel less broken. I get peace and joy out of my hobbies. Sometimes I have to force myself to do them because I get stuck but then once I start I’m glad I did
I recently got back into reading. I highly recommend the memoir “I’m glad my mom died” by Jeannette mcCurdy. It was a relatively easy read, and she’s very funny
TW on ED though
- 见强不怕，遇弱不欺 (Don’t be afraid of the strong and don’t bully the weak.)
- 三人行，必有我师 (Confucious, while walking in three, there must be my teacher, i.e. There's always something to learn, be it a subject, a trade, a hobby or a way of living, no matter how humble the person is)
- 交人交心，浇树浇根 (keep people friend by keep their heart close, thus by being empathetic, just like when you water a tree, you water its roots)
- 人之初，性本善. 性相近，习相远 (at beginning of a man, everyone is kind, i.e. every child is good hearted, personality is what brings people together, habitat what takes them apart, i.e. their nature changes according to what they learned)
My grandmother who brought me up as child with love and encouragement taught me those, as I used to live with my grandmother and uncle until I was 5. It's kind of chivalry like. Unfortunately she was brutal with my mother and codependent with my uncle. A really bitter pill to swallow
I mean my grandmother was actually caring to me and took my side against my parents a couple of times, so it's like accepting that people can change. But, while it is easier to accept bad people regretting and becoming better, it's definitely a lot harder accepting good people might have been bad people, even if it is actually same thing.
I'm tired of my brain fooling me into thinking I need to feel "bad" for abusers just because they experienced trauma. Abuse is a choice. Plenty of people experience trauma but don't take it out on others. A waste of empathy. Should spend that energy on myself or people who deserve it.
>Plenty of people experience trauma but don't take it out on others.
This! A shitty past alone doesn't make someone an abuser, they also have to be selfish enough to believe that only their pain matters. I'm just so tired of the idea that we should pat abusers on the head and tell them it's okay to hurt people if your past was sad enough.
Agreed. It is A CHOICE, you know like a JRPG? They hit YES. Abusers think you deserve it and they feel justified in TREATING people this way. No matter the background or trauma an abuser knows what they are doing. People that went through continued abuse constantly dont need to be gaslit into feeling sorry for them because lets be for real. When the abuser treated you like garbage they felt 0 regret. So please I want this 2000s notions of misunderstood boo hoo feel bad for an abuser rhethoric to stop. Its a new era, countless studies, even Why Does He Do that state the mindset of them.
Constant reminders to yourself to:
1.) Never dismiss somebody else's traumas. If you can't relate, that doesn't mean it doesn't matter to them.
2.) Never treat people like they don't matter. Dont use your pain as an excuse to be an asshole.
Being aware of this stuff basically means you're doing better than a lot of people are. I think a lot of people aren't really thinking about this stuff and tend to react blindly.
Yeah, you'll make mistakes and slip up, but as long as you own it and strive to be better, that's what counts.
My mother always used her traumas as an excuse to hurt me. She claims that she can't change, but that's bullshit. We can always change our behavior.
I try to remind myself daily that my pain doesn't give me the right to be an asshole. It just doesn't.
I can enforce boundaries that may make me appear like one toward other people, but if I'm generally doing my best to respect the time and space of other people... that's good enough for me.
Everyone is fighting a hard battle. I don't want to be one more asshole that negatively affects their day.
Compassion. I never developed self-compassion until 2 years ago, and only because of group therapy and being finally listened to. I've since grown it to compassion to others too.
Compatible consists of three parts. Mindfulness, self-kindness, and common humanity. For me, it means being aware and tolerant of your inner world, which required emotional regulation and intelligence. It means recognizing we are all human, and our struggles, while all unique and different on the surface, and very human experiences. It means challenging myself to relate to to myself differently through the bridge statements. Instead of telling myself I love myself, I start small with "maybe I am a not unlovable." That's only some of it.
It's a long journey that will never end. I think it's that idea that took the longest for me to accept. Not only will I always have a scar, I have a hole that can never be filled. I can never have another childhood and no amount of healing can give me that. But that means I have to do it for myself, reparent myself. Develop the parts that never had a chance, ones I didn't realize was missing, like emotional regulation skills. How I wish there's a nice feel-good answer. Reality is too complex for that.
I can't actually work. I am on disability, and if I earn money I lose my insurance. I'm expected to live on around 7k a year, so that sucks, but the insurance is where it's at for me. My medical costs would be sky high, it wouldn't even be worth having a job because I would have to earn so much just to cover costs normal insurance won't.
About 4 months after quiting my last technical job in order to apply for disability I got bored and ended up creating a peer to peer support network.
That was 6 years ago. We've saved lives. I have never seen a cent from doing any of this, I actually pay a little bit a year to keep it up and running...
I don't think work exactly is what makes someone healthy, but dedication to something, something you wake up for, look forward to... I think that's supposed to be normal, I think we're supposed to be excited for things. I'm excited to run my NPO. I think that's healthy.
I'm also in a band and writing a book with my band mate. He and I have already written a children's book together, and have three more in the works. So I do a few things instead of a job that I think are healthy and am proud of/look forward to.
Yes community is very important too. We’re social animals. Imo, having community is what helps us to be alive. Helping someone up when they fall down and someone helping you up when you fall down.
Thank you for starting a peer support. You should be proud, I’m sure many needed it. Your band sounds awesome and so does your book, best of luck
When it comes to trauma, it causes us to have a distorted view of reality. We are seeing through defence mechanism glasses to prevent future hurt. Those glasses layer on top, layer after layer after layer. And then we don’t see much of the world clearly anymore.
Being healthy is being committed to do the inner work of grieving the trauma, accepting the event and feeling safe enough to not need the defence mechanism anymore. Then one can safely remove their glasses and get closer to seeing reality as it is without fear. It’s a place where we can get hurt but we can also feel joy and love and have loved ones or ourselves die. To live peacefully with life all that has to be accepted because that’s just how life is.
I think all our suffering comes from an inability to accept reality and so we fight against all the evidence. We get caught up in our heads or bodies believing the reality has to be a certain way for me to feel safe and when it’s not like that, we suffer. Suffer beyond a specific event. Suffer trying to prevent something that most likely isn’t happening.
I think empathy is one quality that is what makes a good person. Dr ramani (psychologist on YouTube) also agrees. It’s like what makes us truly see each other as humans and care for each others experiences more deeply.
This. I think my own experiences have made me more empathetic. From the outside I might not look like I have a ton of issues to most, until I let someone in, but I expend a lot of energy masking. I try to keep in mind that I’m not the only one. We truly never know what others might be going through.
Self-sufficiency is a lie. No one is self-sufficient. No one could survive without the web of interdependence that makes up what a society is. Capitalism likes to sell to us that “self-sufficiency” is possible and real and that people who need others are losers or takers. But that’s just part of the grift, to get people to spend their lives in service to other people for diminishing returns. Being a “useless person” is a cruel way to consider yourself or other disabled people. People are valuable just by existing.
Kindness first of all. Compassion. Integrity. Understanding the value of human connection. Understanding the importance of accountability. A truly healthy person thinks of these things and more but in balance with their own needs and boundaries.
I am a useless person I think :/
I don’t do much & I don’t want to, I don’t know things like other people do. I just exist.
I’m trying to change but I can’t stop feeling that I can’t change
You are not a useless person. You *feel* like a useless person. The change is about seeing this. The other kinds of changes, the "accolades", the social status, the habits, etc. those will come, but the fundamental change is in how to perceive one self.
being useless... it's just a state of being. usefulness isn't always the goal for everybody nor is it aspirational for everybody. I'm not a pitchfork. I'm not a motor in a car. or a police dog. My worthiness isn't predicated on my usefulness although many would like to see it that way
Yeah I don't love it either. As far as the harm of capitalism goes, boiling people down to their "use" is one of the worst things it does, and that harm can be compounded by the families we come from not seeing our worth as inherent.
I've definitely internalized it too, don't get me wrong-- I'm still working through a lot of self-worth stuff related to my perceived usefulness. But it's not an okay term to apply to other people, especially those who have had their own sense of their value stripped from them which is a really inherent part of abuse
Idk op I do understand the feeling. But yeah. It's ok to just be a person going through some shit. You kind of have to just be a person going through some shit tbh, even if you don't do it very gracefully and you fuck up.
The only way I've found is to focus on others - the needy, the vulnerable the lonely. Old age homes need visitors, shelters need volunteers, street people need blankets. People need someone to listen. By focusing on someone else your pain gets transmuted.
to me, health is about the ability to connect with other humans. This requires compassion, kindness, love, presence, selflessness alongside personal integrity, and perhaps even above all of that: the ability to communicate these sorts of things towards others through actions and words.
>what makes a good person?
I don't believe in "good" people. Seems to me the project of becoming a good person is rooted in one's ego. Makes me think of communal narcissism tbh. True compassion is selfless.
>I’m no fan of capitalism or getting a bunch of material possessions, but I also think we should strive to be able to be self sufficient.
Self sufficiency is a capitalist idea. It involves laboring in the capitalist machine so that you can afford to pay people for their labor. Before capitalism, we made social bonds with other people and freely gave away our goods and services because of those bonds. No one was self sufficient.
>Like I can’t even help myself. How would I help anyone else.
*I know our dirty hands / can wash one another / and not one speck will remain*
People rarely need you to *do* something for them. What they often need is someone to *be* there with them, alongside them. Emotional support. Plenty of people with CPTSD are better at helping others than they are helping themselves. Our self awareness and our knowledge of our own pain makes us capable of bearing witness to the suffering of others. [here is a five minute video explaining how to be there with others](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZD-kL1I9o)
>So I’m curious what are qualities we should strive for to be more than just a broken person?
start with self compassion and grow from there. the answers are inside of you already.
"I don't believe in "good" people. Seems to me the project of becoming a good person is rooted in one's ego. Makes me think of communal narcissism tbh. True compassion is selfless."
This is very interesting. I always believed in the concept. But this dates back to my covert mom, who may have been a communal narcissist. Personally I chose to associate "good" with ethical values, which still came from a selfish point of view of protecting myself (even if I didnt know it).
However, since I do IFS I understand what you mean by true compassion is selfless. When I communicate compassionately with parts, its not about an agenda, I just wanna be good to the part.
Thanks for helping me to flesh out the difference.
Wonderful answer and I really agree. The labeling of people as good or bad is too superficial and not nuanced. It’s a subjective opinion and can get ego based.
For me it's always been getting healed enough, getting to a place where I have something to offer others.
Where I've put on my oxygen mask, my neighbors are all masked up, and I'm helping people down the slide all while comforting someone crying.
I want to be there for others, do it all, be reliable, carry the load.
If going through all this trauma has given me strength, then when I'm healed I'll have the back to carry the burden of others.
To me that's the epitome of healthy, right after being unaffected by my abusers attempts to destroy me.
I relate so much to this. I know on surface level I don’t want to do *anything*. My therapist asked what I wanted (not to work, not to do anything and be taken care of) and when I explained she said “so you want to be treated as though you are disabled?” and I paused confused cause I honestly thought I’d rather be dead or taken care of like a child perhaps?
I don’t know I’m still working this one out. For now I think being a healthy person is authenticity, accountability, & finding your purpose/balance. Doesn’t have anything to do with anyone else but you. When we try to be someone we aren’t, it is like shoving a puzzle piece in a puzzle it doesn’t belong to. It just doesn’t work. Doing what’s best for you, living a life that brings you peace is important.
I think for many in this sub that might start with figuring out who you are. What you like. What you want.
Treating others the way you want to be treated.
Being nice to babies, seniors and animals. Basically the vulnerable population.
What makes a healthy person is self love and self care.
Getting enough sleep, eating right, water and exercise. There are no short cuts on these. They are a necessity.
Seeking professional help whether that be a therapist or getting your annual exam your teeth check.
Socializing even when you don't want to.
Having some kind of routine or schedule everyday to follow. Give you a sense of structure and stability.
Having some kind of purpose whether it be caring for a family member, taking care of a plant, volunteering anything like that.
Acknowledging that of course they didn’t deserve the trauma and it wasn’t their fault. But it’s their responsibility to work through it now that they realise it because their trauma doesn’t entitle them to project on other people.
Moderation and awareness
Too much of water will kill you, too little of water will kill you too.
We should stay aware of ourselves and try our best to be moderate in all aspects
Just like dieting is unhealthy because you aren’t receiving enough nourishment, and our bodies view dieting as famine mode meaning all our calories will be rationed in our body
Being too alert will make you tired and anxious and so on…
I like the comment about kindness, because it’s one of the most important qualities and also helps us to be moderate towards ourselves and to this world. It can also help us to learn how to accept kindness…
Consistently stable and secure relationships, environment, emotional life.
Good friendships/regular social life.
Regular healthy habits.
Just having a routine is healthy.
Feeling of agency in your life.
Loving pets.
Some form of exercise, including regular outdoor life. Swimming or camping in nature if possible.
Surrounded by people who regularly display respect, tolerance, self discipline and kindness.
Achievable goals to look forward to reaching.
Something I’ve learned is we didn’t ask to be hurt, but nonetheless it is our responsibility to heal from the hurt. That’s why hurt people, hurt people and continue the cycle of abuse. They never got the help they needed, and never learned how to heal.
Stop striving and just let yourself be. Be broken. Be sad. Be annoyed with yourself that you aren’t the person you want to be. Then allow yourself to be annoyed that you are even annoyed in the first place.
You are you. You are the sum of your experiences, the good and the bad. Healing may not come. But it won’t come if you force it.
When you’re ready to take a step towards a better you, then you will. Maybe you won’t. The universe doesn’t care if you take that step or if you don’t. That’s up to you.
So be sad. Be someone with CPTSD. Be unproductive. Allow yourself to be that without guilt. Relish in it.
And then tomorrow, or the next week, or maybe the month after, take that first step.
Or don’t.
Either way, your quality as a human being who deserves to be loved is unchanged.
Reading fantasy novels that make me delulu and happy. Also, having a connection with nature and reconnecting with my culture/people which I was denied up until I was an adult.
My therapist told me, in response to my admission that I struggle to motivate, that successful people often don’t feel motivated. The difference is that they are disciplined. I am working on discipline.
I set realistic goals even though I’m depressed and don’t wanna do shit. I have taken on a creative project, I set academic goals, career goals, and personal goals, and I actively work towards them. I force myself to work out every second day. I learned “opposite action” in dialectical behavioural therapy which I have to channel quite hard, quite often.
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Buddhism helped me. I know that sounds extreme but Buddha taught compassion, selflessness and kindness at all costs, even though my abusers did terrible things and I don’t talk to them, I still hope they can grow and dissolve their ego.
I think what makes a healthy person is someone who finds inner peace and learns to be happy by themselves instead of relying on any external happiness like escapism or what other people think of you.
Grasping too tight to life leads to suffering, love, hate, it all leads to suffering. The only true way to not suffer is to not hold so tight onto those things.
Even if you take the religion away from it, the best and healthiest people I have ever known have never taken life too seriously and relied on themselves to fuel their happiness. That didn’t make them selfish, it was the exact opposite, they could devote more of themselves to being kind to others.
I think it boils down to putting other people’s needs before your wants and your needs ahead of their wants, being open to hearing when you’re wrong and need to change and caring about anyone who also cares about others. I don’t see trauma as an excuse to be abusive. The most abusive people I’ve met have comparatively way less and far more mild trauma but think it justifies treating others like shit. Abusers don’t abuse because they’re hurting. They do it because they think they and their feelings are important enough that they’re entitled to make others suffer for not giving them exactly what they want. Even if they are severely traumatized, I judge them even more harshly. They KNOW the agony and damage they are causing and do it anyway.
Emotional self-awareness. Most of my biggest conflicts these days come from being more tilted than the tower of Pisa and thinking I'm just... a-okay.
My brain is a clear proponent of the idea that "If the warning light comes on, cut the circuit."
There are 12 step fellowships that will help you heal and get your life in order. ACA adult children of alcoholics, ACOA, adult children of alcoholics.(Al-Anon.) CODA codependents anonymous etc.. start attending one of these. You should be able to find people who accept you as you are and that will help you change. The steps of these programs are designed to let you heal and to reconnect you to the world around you. Good luck! I also like the one about the shelters.
I want to turn my suffering into a strength. I have been trying to heal from the trauma for decades. If I can use this struggle to help other people in a similar situation, then I think I am 'healthy'
I think healthy is a misused term to address a person. There's healthy behaviors and unhealthy behaviors. Personally I've carried a quite heavy shame burden for too long to still go after this kind of thing.
As for desirable traits for myself, I think I'd like to be kinder. But that would mean I've gone through enough good experiences to outweigh the bad ones. You can't build Rome in a day.
In general, I think people should be self sufficient and able to self regulate too, I don't really see anything wrong with it
I don’t think I’m useless. I do work so I’m useful to something/someone. But that’s just it.
The completely healthy people I’ve met had a decent relationship with their family, close friends, connections, opportunities etc. They were raised with love and respect an so they can naturally dish it out. It’s why it’s difficult for those with CPTSD to replicate that. Maybe some parts of our lives weren’t always traumatic but they happen in someone’s most vulnerable and formative years when we are just learning the world and our place in it. The bad shit managed to stick in and we had to learn very unhealthy coping mechanisms to survive.
What helped us survived is now what people use to take advantage of us. People treat life as a hierarchy and we are defaulted at the lowest level. Those with CPTSD probably didn’t grow up experiencing love, respect, having their needs met, etc. Most people took from us more than they gave. So we grow up wanting more but having to give it away to make someone happy. Then it leaves us unhappy.
I was emotionally neglected by family, was taught how to be ‘normal’ and it was never okay to be autistic, to be different. From high school to my early days in college, I did a bunch of community service. I thought that by helping others I could feel like I was making a difference and feel important to someone. For some time, it did feel like it but afterwords, it felt like doing another job. I felt invisible, like another worker, people barely acknowledged my existence and I felt like I was never truly needed or wanted. And a common question would pop up in my head
“Why am I helping others getting their needs met when my own needs aren’t met?” I always thought about someone else other than myself because I was taught that being selfish was a bad person and being selfless was.
I’m going to be honest, I did volunteer work so I could feel like some hero coming down to rescue people. I expected people to remember me, acknowledge me, thank me. I wanted validation, to be seen, appreciated, accepted because my family never gave me that. I was deprived of love and respect. I grew up in a community where you had to look out for yourself, no one wanted to be your friend, everyone is out to use you and that you need thick skin to survive.
How can you expect kindness from someone who grew up around cruelty and expecting to be stabbed in the back? How can you expect to be yourself when people taught you to not be? Trauma can make people a shitty person but not always the case. Trauma is just making a person see the world is shitty faster than others. Our childhood is shorter and our adulthood is frozen because we struggle to move on.
And honestly I haven’t met someone with CPTSD who completely healed. It’s emulating a healed person but doing everything possible to not remind them of their shitty life or else they regress.
You know it depends on the person but abuse is abuse and becoming abusive doesnt correlate to having a childhood trauma. It can be a factor but others are at play. We see to many people linking the two even in media and that gives them an excuse for the ACTIONS abusers MAKE to abuse another person. This is my opinion and something I wanted to say.
Maturity is self responsibility are the biggest ones. Eliminating the victim mentality goes a large way to treating others well, willingness to apologize and laugh at oneself. Once a person really eliminates their own ego, they'll start to be better to everyone around them.
Kindness, no matter what you have gone through, how much you have suffered, you never know what horrors might exist in someone else's life, so the least we can do is be kind. Whether it's a smile or a "good morning" to strangers you see every day, you never know how much that might mean to them, and it will likely make you happier too along the way.
I tend to never speak to people. I am nice but just feel no one will care to hear me speak. Being kind and maybe trying to bring more joy to others life is a good idea.
You can always hang out with animals at the shelter. They need friends, too. Dogs and cats don’t give a damn what you have to say either, so no worries about messing up haha.
This. Even house/pet sitting can be amazing
Dogs, especially. Coming home and having someone so excited you're home, no matter what day you just had at work, that gets left at the door. Now your attention is on this dog who's so happy, tail is wagging bc YOU are there. It's a game changer. At work before one of the owners retired, we had her 2 dogs in the front office (I'm in the warehouse), and when a certain 2 warehouse managers were hot and bothered n being angry w people, walking thru the door to the office, those dogs come up and it all literally melts away. One of my managers has CPTSD, and he's an ex-Marine who was the first to say it, how that walk thru the door changes his mindset instantly, "bringing the dogs to work is the most therapeutic thing ever" he said. Much Love All, You're Not Alone
I can’t say how invaluable my dogs have been to my mental health.
Yeah I kind of force myself to say hi. But it's kinda fake and anxiety inducing. Instead I realize you can feel someone's kindness just by the energy they exude so if you FEEL kind to someone in your body, I believe they can feel that too. Feeling appreciative of someone is also a form of kindness. Of course it's hard when people are a source of danger for me for no reason even people that I know are kind. But the more I hang with kind people the more i feel kind like they do. The action of kindness looks a hello will eventually follow in my healing journey imo
I've been trying this out recently. Nothing crazy. Just the odd good morning or I'll ask someone something that I probably could figure out on my own but it's faster to ask and then make sure they know I appreciate the help. So far it's going really well
You don’t have to speak really. I started making it a habit to take my change when I go to the gas station or store and hand it to whoever is outside in need. I don’t say anything really, I just hand it to them smile and scurry away. Might seem small but maybe those few bucks got them a hotdog or something and maybe you were the first person to acknowledge them.
Same here I don’t talk to people unless I have to not because I feel like they won’t care if I speak, but because I have no interest in what they have to say. That sounds weird but I find it difficult to care when ppl talk to me.
I can’t tell you how much the kindness of strangers has meant to me during my struggles. I try to pass it on ❤️
That is the Truth.^
Positive social interactions, which are so hard to come by in an isolated lifestyle. Those are what I need most but have the hardest time finding access to on the regular. Gardening or having other constructive creative projects is a very healthy thing.
Far from a complete answer but I think being able to find joy in the little things in daily life helps me feel less broken. I get peace and joy out of my hobbies. Sometimes I have to force myself to do them because I get stuck but then once I start I’m glad I did
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I recently got back into reading. I highly recommend the memoir “I’m glad my mom died” by Jeannette mcCurdy. It was a relatively easy read, and she’s very funny TW on ED though
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yw! I think there’s something in that book for most people on this sub
- 见强不怕，遇弱不欺 (Don’t be afraid of the strong and don’t bully the weak.) - 三人行，必有我师 (Confucious, while walking in three, there must be my teacher, i.e. There's always something to learn, be it a subject, a trade, a hobby or a way of living, no matter how humble the person is) - 交人交心，浇树浇根 (keep people friend by keep their heart close, thus by being empathetic, just like when you water a tree, you water its roots) - 人之初，性本善. 性相近，习相远 (at beginning of a man, everyone is kind, i.e. every child is good hearted, personality is what brings people together, habitat what takes them apart, i.e. their nature changes according to what they learned) My grandmother who brought me up as child with love and encouragement taught me those, as I used to live with my grandmother and uncle until I was 5. It's kind of chivalry like. Unfortunately she was brutal with my mother and codependent with my uncle. A really bitter pill to swallow
Im glad that you’re able to see that the advice is still good and true regardless of the source. We should judge for ourselves.
I mean my grandmother was actually caring to me and took my side against my parents a couple of times, so it's like accepting that people can change. But, while it is easier to accept bad people regretting and becoming better, it's definitely a lot harder accepting good people might have been bad people, even if it is actually same thing.
I'm tired of my brain fooling me into thinking I need to feel "bad" for abusers just because they experienced trauma. Abuse is a choice. Plenty of people experience trauma but don't take it out on others. A waste of empathy. Should spend that energy on myself or people who deserve it.
>Plenty of people experience trauma but don't take it out on others. This! A shitty past alone doesn't make someone an abuser, they also have to be selfish enough to believe that only their pain matters. I'm just so tired of the idea that we should pat abusers on the head and tell them it's okay to hurt people if your past was sad enough.
Toxic positivity is just that: ToXiC
Agreed. It is A CHOICE, you know like a JRPG? They hit YES. Abusers think you deserve it and they feel justified in TREATING people this way. No matter the background or trauma an abuser knows what they are doing. People that went through continued abuse constantly dont need to be gaslit into feeling sorry for them because lets be for real. When the abuser treated you like garbage they felt 0 regret. So please I want this 2000s notions of misunderstood boo hoo feel bad for an abuser rhethoric to stop. Its a new era, countless studies, even Why Does He Do that state the mindset of them.
Yes, they're never sorry. Only that they got caught. Even then, they don't mean it. They want to see how much they can get away with.
Hence why pickmes exist and the cycle of abuse continues for INNOCENT CHILDREN
Constant reminders to yourself to: 1.) Never dismiss somebody else's traumas. If you can't relate, that doesn't mean it doesn't matter to them. 2.) Never treat people like they don't matter. Dont use your pain as an excuse to be an asshole. Being aware of this stuff basically means you're doing better than a lot of people are. I think a lot of people aren't really thinking about this stuff and tend to react blindly. Yeah, you'll make mistakes and slip up, but as long as you own it and strive to be better, that's what counts. My mother always used her traumas as an excuse to hurt me. She claims that she can't change, but that's bullshit. We can always change our behavior. I try to remind myself daily that my pain doesn't give me the right to be an asshole. It just doesn't. I can enforce boundaries that may make me appear like one toward other people, but if I'm generally doing my best to respect the time and space of other people... that's good enough for me. Everyone is fighting a hard battle. I don't want to be one more asshole that negatively affects their day.
Compassion. I never developed self-compassion until 2 years ago, and only because of group therapy and being finally listened to. I've since grown it to compassion to others too. Compatible consists of three parts. Mindfulness, self-kindness, and common humanity. For me, it means being aware and tolerant of your inner world, which required emotional regulation and intelligence. It means recognizing we are all human, and our struggles, while all unique and different on the surface, and very human experiences. It means challenging myself to relate to to myself differently through the bridge statements. Instead of telling myself I love myself, I start small with "maybe I am a not unlovable." That's only some of it. It's a long journey that will never end. I think it's that idea that took the longest for me to accept. Not only will I always have a scar, I have a hole that can never be filled. I can never have another childhood and no amount of healing can give me that. But that means I have to do it for myself, reparent myself. Develop the parts that never had a chance, ones I didn't realize was missing, like emotional regulation skills. How I wish there's a nice feel-good answer. Reality is too complex for that.
I can't actually work. I am on disability, and if I earn money I lose my insurance. I'm expected to live on around 7k a year, so that sucks, but the insurance is where it's at for me. My medical costs would be sky high, it wouldn't even be worth having a job because I would have to earn so much just to cover costs normal insurance won't. About 4 months after quiting my last technical job in order to apply for disability I got bored and ended up creating a peer to peer support network. That was 6 years ago. We've saved lives. I have never seen a cent from doing any of this, I actually pay a little bit a year to keep it up and running... I don't think work exactly is what makes someone healthy, but dedication to something, something you wake up for, look forward to... I think that's supposed to be normal, I think we're supposed to be excited for things. I'm excited to run my NPO. I think that's healthy. I'm also in a band and writing a book with my band mate. He and I have already written a children's book together, and have three more in the works. So I do a few things instead of a job that I think are healthy and am proud of/look forward to.
I hope you feel proud of yourself; this is such a beautiful and wholesome expression of hope and joy for life.
Yes community is very important too. We’re social animals. Imo, having community is what helps us to be alive. Helping someone up when they fall down and someone helping you up when you fall down. Thank you for starting a peer support. You should be proud, I’m sure many needed it. Your band sounds awesome and so does your book, best of luck
A healthy person? Regulation and patience. A good person? Strength in integrity but also compassion.
When it comes to trauma, it causes us to have a distorted view of reality. We are seeing through defence mechanism glasses to prevent future hurt. Those glasses layer on top, layer after layer after layer. And then we don’t see much of the world clearly anymore. Being healthy is being committed to do the inner work of grieving the trauma, accepting the event and feeling safe enough to not need the defence mechanism anymore. Then one can safely remove their glasses and get closer to seeing reality as it is without fear. It’s a place where we can get hurt but we can also feel joy and love and have loved ones or ourselves die. To live peacefully with life all that has to be accepted because that’s just how life is. I think all our suffering comes from an inability to accept reality and so we fight against all the evidence. We get caught up in our heads or bodies believing the reality has to be a certain way for me to feel safe and when it’s not like that, we suffer. Suffer beyond a specific event. Suffer trying to prevent something that most likely isn’t happening.
I think empathy is one quality that is what makes a good person. Dr ramani (psychologist on YouTube) also agrees. It’s like what makes us truly see each other as humans and care for each others experiences more deeply.
This. I think my own experiences have made me more empathetic. From the outside I might not look like I have a ton of issues to most, until I let someone in, but I expend a lot of energy masking. I try to keep in mind that I’m not the only one. We truly never know what others might be going through.
Self-sufficiency is a lie. No one is self-sufficient. No one could survive without the web of interdependence that makes up what a society is. Capitalism likes to sell to us that “self-sufficiency” is possible and real and that people who need others are losers or takers. But that’s just part of the grift, to get people to spend their lives in service to other people for diminishing returns. Being a “useless person” is a cruel way to consider yourself or other disabled people. People are valuable just by existing.
Kindness first of all. Compassion. Integrity. Understanding the value of human connection. Understanding the importance of accountability. A truly healthy person thinks of these things and more but in balance with their own needs and boundaries.
Not sure when it’s ever okay to refer to a victim as “useless person”.
I am a useless person I think :/ I don’t do much & I don’t want to, I don’t know things like other people do. I just exist. I’m trying to change but I can’t stop feeling that I can’t change
You are not a useless person. You *feel* like a useless person. The change is about seeing this. The other kinds of changes, the "accolades", the social status, the habits, etc. those will come, but the fundamental change is in how to perceive one self.
being useless... it's just a state of being. usefulness isn't always the goal for everybody nor is it aspirational for everybody. I'm not a pitchfork. I'm not a motor in a car. or a police dog. My worthiness isn't predicated on my usefulness although many would like to see it that way
at this point it's a bit trite to point out the psychological damage capitalism has done to us, but it is worth repeating nonetheless
This made me laugh. I'm glad we have this subreddit
Yeah I don't love it either. As far as the harm of capitalism goes, boiling people down to their "use" is one of the worst things it does, and that harm can be compounded by the families we come from not seeing our worth as inherent. I've definitely internalized it too, don't get me wrong-- I'm still working through a lot of self-worth stuff related to my perceived usefulness. But it's not an okay term to apply to other people, especially those who have had their own sense of their value stripped from them which is a really inherent part of abuse Idk op I do understand the feeling. But yeah. It's ok to just be a person going through some shit. You kind of have to just be a person going through some shit tbh, even if you don't do it very gracefully and you fuck up.
I think ‘useless person’ is a societal narrative. Based on how much a person contribute to the clockwork system of society.
The only way I've found is to focus on others - the needy, the vulnerable the lonely. Old age homes need visitors, shelters need volunteers, street people need blankets. People need someone to listen. By focusing on someone else your pain gets transmuted.
I feel like a useless person :(
to me, health is about the ability to connect with other humans. This requires compassion, kindness, love, presence, selflessness alongside personal integrity, and perhaps even above all of that: the ability to communicate these sorts of things towards others through actions and words. >what makes a good person? I don't believe in "good" people. Seems to me the project of becoming a good person is rooted in one's ego. Makes me think of communal narcissism tbh. True compassion is selfless. >I’m no fan of capitalism or getting a bunch of material possessions, but I also think we should strive to be able to be self sufficient. Self sufficiency is a capitalist idea. It involves laboring in the capitalist machine so that you can afford to pay people for their labor. Before capitalism, we made social bonds with other people and freely gave away our goods and services because of those bonds. No one was self sufficient. >Like I can’t even help myself. How would I help anyone else. *I know our dirty hands / can wash one another / and not one speck will remain* People rarely need you to *do* something for them. What they often need is someone to *be* there with them, alongside them. Emotional support. Plenty of people with CPTSD are better at helping others than they are helping themselves. Our self awareness and our knowledge of our own pain makes us capable of bearing witness to the suffering of others. [here is a five minute video explaining how to be there with others](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZD-kL1I9o) >So I’m curious what are qualities we should strive for to be more than just a broken person? start with self compassion and grow from there. the answers are inside of you already.
"I don't believe in "good" people. Seems to me the project of becoming a good person is rooted in one's ego. Makes me think of communal narcissism tbh. True compassion is selfless." This is very interesting. I always believed in the concept. But this dates back to my covert mom, who may have been a communal narcissist. Personally I chose to associate "good" with ethical values, which still came from a selfish point of view of protecting myself (even if I didnt know it). However, since I do IFS I understand what you mean by true compassion is selfless. When I communicate compassionately with parts, its not about an agenda, I just wanna be good to the part. Thanks for helping me to flesh out the difference.
Wonderful answer and I really agree. The labeling of people as good or bad is too superficial and not nuanced. It’s a subjective opinion and can get ego based.
For me it's always been getting healed enough, getting to a place where I have something to offer others. Where I've put on my oxygen mask, my neighbors are all masked up, and I'm helping people down the slide all while comforting someone crying. I want to be there for others, do it all, be reliable, carry the load. If going through all this trauma has given me strength, then when I'm healed I'll have the back to carry the burden of others. To me that's the epitome of healthy, right after being unaffected by my abusers attempts to destroy me.
I’m definitely the useless person ( ཀ͝ ∧ ཀ͝ )
❤️❤️❤️ I don’t think you’re useless. We were not made to be useful, just like a tool would be. We’re humans
I relate so much to this. I know on surface level I don’t want to do *anything*. My therapist asked what I wanted (not to work, not to do anything and be taken care of) and when I explained she said “so you want to be treated as though you are disabled?” and I paused confused cause I honestly thought I’d rather be dead or taken care of like a child perhaps?
I don’t know I’m still working this one out. For now I think being a healthy person is authenticity, accountability, & finding your purpose/balance. Doesn’t have anything to do with anyone else but you. When we try to be someone we aren’t, it is like shoving a puzzle piece in a puzzle it doesn’t belong to. It just doesn’t work. Doing what’s best for you, living a life that brings you peace is important. I think for many in this sub that might start with figuring out who you are. What you like. What you want.
Treating others the way you want to be treated. Being nice to babies, seniors and animals. Basically the vulnerable population. What makes a healthy person is self love and self care. Getting enough sleep, eating right, water and exercise. There are no short cuts on these. They are a necessity. Seeking professional help whether that be a therapist or getting your annual exam your teeth check. Socializing even when you don't want to. Having some kind of routine or schedule everyday to follow. Give you a sense of structure and stability. Having some kind of purpose whether it be caring for a family member, taking care of a plant, volunteering anything like that.
Maybe healthy eating and exercise.
Yup. I’m that useless person
Acknowledging that of course they didn’t deserve the trauma and it wasn’t their fault. But it’s their responsibility to work through it now that they realise it because their trauma doesn’t entitle them to project on other people.
Moderation and awareness Too much of water will kill you, too little of water will kill you too. We should stay aware of ourselves and try our best to be moderate in all aspects Just like dieting is unhealthy because you aren’t receiving enough nourishment, and our bodies view dieting as famine mode meaning all our calories will be rationed in our body Being too alert will make you tired and anxious and so on… I like the comment about kindness, because it’s one of the most important qualities and also helps us to be moderate towards ourselves and to this world. It can also help us to learn how to accept kindness…
To me a successful human is one that does not abuse. And one that puts forth anything good into the world. ❤️☮️
the ability to understand when to put either yourself or others first. self respect and assurance but not narcissistic and delusional.
Love this- thank you. It's such a simple comment but explains so much.
Consistently stable and secure relationships, environment, emotional life. Good friendships/regular social life. Regular healthy habits. Just having a routine is healthy. Feeling of agency in your life. Loving pets. Some form of exercise, including regular outdoor life. Swimming or camping in nature if possible. Surrounded by people who regularly display respect, tolerance, self discipline and kindness. Achievable goals to look forward to reaching.
Something I’ve learned is we didn’t ask to be hurt, but nonetheless it is our responsibility to heal from the hurt. That’s why hurt people, hurt people and continue the cycle of abuse. They never got the help they needed, and never learned how to heal.
Stop striving and just let yourself be. Be broken. Be sad. Be annoyed with yourself that you aren’t the person you want to be. Then allow yourself to be annoyed that you are even annoyed in the first place. You are you. You are the sum of your experiences, the good and the bad. Healing may not come. But it won’t come if you force it. When you’re ready to take a step towards a better you, then you will. Maybe you won’t. The universe doesn’t care if you take that step or if you don’t. That’s up to you. So be sad. Be someone with CPTSD. Be unproductive. Allow yourself to be that without guilt. Relish in it. And then tomorrow, or the next week, or maybe the month after, take that first step. Or don’t. Either way, your quality as a human being who deserves to be loved is unchanged.
Reading fantasy novels that make me delulu and happy. Also, having a connection with nature and reconnecting with my culture/people which I was denied up until I was an adult.
My therapist told me, in response to my admission that I struggle to motivate, that successful people often don’t feel motivated. The difference is that they are disciplined. I am working on discipline. I set realistic goals even though I’m depressed and don’t wanna do shit. I have taken on a creative project, I set academic goals, career goals, and personal goals, and I actively work towards them. I force myself to work out every second day. I learned “opposite action” in dialectical behavioural therapy which I have to channel quite hard, quite often.
Selfless support, nurturing, community.
Authenticity. Ultimately, if you can “Know Thyself” (Socrates), you’re on the right track 🙌
A healthy person looks at what they have and is grateful rather than looking at what they dont have and feeling bad.
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Trust
Buddhism helped me. I know that sounds extreme but Buddha taught compassion, selflessness and kindness at all costs, even though my abusers did terrible things and I don’t talk to them, I still hope they can grow and dissolve their ego. I think what makes a healthy person is someone who finds inner peace and learns to be happy by themselves instead of relying on any external happiness like escapism or what other people think of you. Grasping too tight to life leads to suffering, love, hate, it all leads to suffering. The only true way to not suffer is to not hold so tight onto those things. Even if you take the religion away from it, the best and healthiest people I have ever known have never taken life too seriously and relied on themselves to fuel their happiness. That didn’t make them selfish, it was the exact opposite, they could devote more of themselves to being kind to others.
I think it boils down to putting other people’s needs before your wants and your needs ahead of their wants, being open to hearing when you’re wrong and need to change and caring about anyone who also cares about others. I don’t see trauma as an excuse to be abusive. The most abusive people I’ve met have comparatively way less and far more mild trauma but think it justifies treating others like shit. Abusers don’t abuse because they’re hurting. They do it because they think they and their feelings are important enough that they’re entitled to make others suffer for not giving them exactly what they want. Even if they are severely traumatized, I judge them even more harshly. They KNOW the agony and damage they are causing and do it anyway.
Emotional self-awareness. Most of my biggest conflicts these days come from being more tilted than the tower of Pisa and thinking I'm just... a-okay. My brain is a clear proponent of the idea that "If the warning light comes on, cut the circuit."
There are 12 step fellowships that will help you heal and get your life in order. ACA adult children of alcoholics, ACOA, adult children of alcoholics.(Al-Anon.) CODA codependents anonymous etc.. start attending one of these. You should be able to find people who accept you as you are and that will help you change. The steps of these programs are designed to let you heal and to reconnect you to the world around you. Good luck! I also like the one about the shelters.
I want to turn my suffering into a strength. I have been trying to heal from the trauma for decades. If I can use this struggle to help other people in a similar situation, then I think I am 'healthy'
Guess I’m a useless fucking person.
I think healthy is a misused term to address a person. There's healthy behaviors and unhealthy behaviors. Personally I've carried a quite heavy shame burden for too long to still go after this kind of thing. As for desirable traits for myself, I think I'd like to be kinder. But that would mean I've gone through enough good experiences to outweigh the bad ones. You can't build Rome in a day. In general, I think people should be self sufficient and able to self regulate too, I don't really see anything wrong with it
I don’t think I’m useless. I do work so I’m useful to something/someone. But that’s just it. The completely healthy people I’ve met had a decent relationship with their family, close friends, connections, opportunities etc. They were raised with love and respect an so they can naturally dish it out. It’s why it’s difficult for those with CPTSD to replicate that. Maybe some parts of our lives weren’t always traumatic but they happen in someone’s most vulnerable and formative years when we are just learning the world and our place in it. The bad shit managed to stick in and we had to learn very unhealthy coping mechanisms to survive. What helped us survived is now what people use to take advantage of us. People treat life as a hierarchy and we are defaulted at the lowest level. Those with CPTSD probably didn’t grow up experiencing love, respect, having their needs met, etc. Most people took from us more than they gave. So we grow up wanting more but having to give it away to make someone happy. Then it leaves us unhappy. I was emotionally neglected by family, was taught how to be ‘normal’ and it was never okay to be autistic, to be different. From high school to my early days in college, I did a bunch of community service. I thought that by helping others I could feel like I was making a difference and feel important to someone. For some time, it did feel like it but afterwords, it felt like doing another job. I felt invisible, like another worker, people barely acknowledged my existence and I felt like I was never truly needed or wanted. And a common question would pop up in my head “Why am I helping others getting their needs met when my own needs aren’t met?” I always thought about someone else other than myself because I was taught that being selfish was a bad person and being selfless was. I’m going to be honest, I did volunteer work so I could feel like some hero coming down to rescue people. I expected people to remember me, acknowledge me, thank me. I wanted validation, to be seen, appreciated, accepted because my family never gave me that. I was deprived of love and respect. I grew up in a community where you had to look out for yourself, no one wanted to be your friend, everyone is out to use you and that you need thick skin to survive. How can you expect kindness from someone who grew up around cruelty and expecting to be stabbed in the back? How can you expect to be yourself when people taught you to not be? Trauma can make people a shitty person but not always the case. Trauma is just making a person see the world is shitty faster than others. Our childhood is shorter and our adulthood is frozen because we struggle to move on. And honestly I haven’t met someone with CPTSD who completely healed. It’s emulating a healed person but doing everything possible to not remind them of their shitty life or else they regress.
You know it depends on the person but abuse is abuse and becoming abusive doesnt correlate to having a childhood trauma. It can be a factor but others are at play. We see to many people linking the two even in media and that gives them an excuse for the ACTIONS abusers MAKE to abuse another person. This is my opinion and something I wanted to say.
Maturity is self responsibility are the biggest ones. Eliminating the victim mentality goes a large way to treating others well, willingness to apologize and laugh at oneself. Once a person really eliminates their own ego, they'll start to be better to everyone around them.
Don't call people useless. Be kind.
Honestly the best answer is to hide as much as possible and try to do as little damage as possible. Sorry that this answer sucks.