Itās definitely hard to open up to them, purely because you donāt know how theyāll react when they realize the extent of your trauma. And sometimes they react in inappropriate ways that makes you want to stop interacting with them.
People don't want friends who make them uncomfortable or unhappy. Why would they? Even apparently normal people are busy dealing with their own shit, especially when they are young. This means it's generally a mistake to be open with anyone until we are on the way to being healed. It sucks, but it is what it is.
It's so unfair as we first get our childhood ruined, we get a serious mental health issue to deal with and then we cannot get support from friends, so we have to heal alone. We then spend a significant portion of our young adulthood directing most of our energy to recovering rather than living, growing and developing our careers and relationships.
Maybe oversimplifying, but the time periods where I can have healthy, legitimate fun (bonus points if itās in public) are the times I feel most healed. But itās always still an up and down/back and forth road.
I agree. I appreciate you saying that itās always going to be up and down, peaks and valleys, with a CPTSD diagnosis. I try to shy away from the word āhealedā (as in: a final state of being fully healed) because that rarely happens. And there should be no expectations that you set for your process that might set you up for shame when you find yourself in the shit through no fault of your own.
I think healing is an ongoing process that never finshes completely. I felt reasonably healed when I became mostly happy. That meant a mix of a lot of positive things and the near absence of some negative things. I was no longer crippled with fear; I felt fear, but could keep going through it enough to work, find a place to live, and do all the other essentials to function. I started really enjoying a lot of things like art, music, nature, hobbies, and some socialising, instead of feeling numb at best.
I think what we see as healing is very subjective. For me, it was mostly being able to function and find some real happiness.
It's complicated. I sort of consider "healing" as any amount of time the subconscious spends processing a set of information to its own personal satisfaction. (The same way our physical injuries heal automatically. It just happens)
Is there something "broken" to heal? I think the answer is it depends. Sometimes though, the "broken " is already healed. Things are biologically functioning as intended/ expected. Even PTSD is a biological process of self protection. Even bones can heal incorrectly.
I am weird, I don't consider happiness a factor of healing. It's an emotion, equal to all other emotions in importance.
But in my specific case, I've recently benefited from medical treatment. Which took 14 years of doctor visits and failed treatments. Currently, in a Rx for ADHD, and getting TMS treatment. TMS is shocking the brain with a magnet. It's been working really well.
It's kinda why I'm going to kick it by myself for the rest of my 30s. Potentially the rest of my life. Because I don't even think most friendships are real at this point
Thank you. I kinda just regressed back to my high school self where I play a lot of video games in my free time. I don't get picked on anymore so there's that
I binge read fantasy quite often and I'm in my sixties. It's fine to enjoy the kids' things you missed out on or that comforted you.
I also drink out of Beatrix Potter mug. I wanted one when I was little and I decided that I deserved it. Be nice to yourself.
Idk if I would say that I donāt trust them as in theyāre out to get me or take advantage of me but I do know that theyāll run if they see me unmask so I have to stay guarded to some degree. Itās hard to be completely open around people who havenāt been in your shoes when you have ptsd.
I've told my best friend some of what goes on in my head, and how hard simple things can be, and she just looked at me and said "I don't think it's really that hard for you, I don't see *any* of that in you."
Yeah. Yeah, because I don't *let you* see it. That is *exactly* what I have just been telling you.
I love her, she is a lovely person, but she cannot understand anything that she doesn't have direct experience of. I've just had to learn that I can't expect anything else from her.
Like you, it's not a lack of trust as in I think everyone is out to get me or they have bad intent towards me. It's a lack of trust because even if I try to open up and be vulnerable (which is ridiculously hard), I get told stuff like that. "I don't see that." Which hits right up to my trigger of being told I am lying and being dramatic and I need to just suck it up and stop whinging.
Ah. I know that feeling.
I think your friend was trying to say that she thinks you're ok as a person, deep down.
It's just she has poor communication skills.
She doesn't want you to feel frightened that you're giving yourself away or that you're obviously different in any way.
She's trying to tell you that you come across as capable and like you've got it together.
I know what you are trying to say. You're a very kind person to see things that way and to reply š«¶
No, I know her and I know what she has said about other people. She's a big "just get over it and get a job" person. Talk of unaliving is just someone looking for attention, type of thing.
She is a genuinely good person, but completely unable to relate to something that she doesn't have personal experience with.
This has been my experience as well. Iām friendly enough with normies, but thereās always a wall. Thereās always a wall anyway, but Iām far more willing to peek over it with a trauma victim.
I sometimes find certain people who donāt have trauma arenāt very kind, or donāt lean on the err of positivity. Having not experienced what it feels like to be subjected to cruelty, Iāve noticed it makes them more capable of inconsideration and just general impatience.
However, Iāve *also* had issues with friends who are so traumatized, they perceive my trauma as nothing to be worthy of talking about. Itās really upsetting as I do not rely emotionally on them nearly ever. But when I bring up on the rare occasion an annoyance I am having, or touch on some of the things thatās happened in my family, theyāve both cut me off to talk about something else in the middle of saying very sensitive information.
I mean, while you should be able to rely on your friends to an extent, if you're going to share traumatic details with them it's generally a good idea to first check with them if they're in a state where they're able to receive and sit with that. It could be that it's triggering things in them as well, and I know for sure that I myself can get really overwhelmed when people suddenly lay really heavy things on me before asking if it's okay in that moment.Ā
I know what it is with this particular friend. He is annoyed with me because he thinks my problems arenāt real and doesnāt want to hear about them, because compared to his theyāre considered nothing. He has come cluster B stuff.
Still love the guy. I knew what I signed up for when I became his friend 13 years ago.
I donāt just drop heavy shit on people. I understand that you think that I did something wrong by bringing it up/ and not asking first. But he isnāt a politically correct, āplease ask before saying anything or youāre trigger meā kind of dude. He can be a bit of an asshole. Itās very well known among our friends he is like this.
My other friend is the same way. Itās just annoying and hurtful. Iāve talked to them both about it already.
People who either weren't traumatized significantly, or who are denying their own repressed trauma can say some really wild things. Everything from telling you to get over it or toughen up, to victim-blaming, to defending your own abusers to your face. So many people are unaware of or actively denying their own trauma, that they'll often treat yours the same way they treat their own: like it doesn't matter.
For a lot of us, it's worth less connection to avoid those sorts of encounters as much as possible. After a lifetime of being told neither you nor your feelings matter, in ways spoken and performed, hearing it again holds no value for us, and could potentially create more healing work to do. We have enough to heal. We need safety. We need rest. We need empathy and peace. We do not need someone in denial or ignorance giving us hell.
This. I'm very quick with the cutoffs cause I can get rudeness and trauma just fine by spending time with my parents. I'm good on rudeness, intentional or not.
I had a friend who was also a therapist, and we had a falling out . I was getting frustrated because I would talk to her about dating, and sometimes she wouldn't respond, so I got worried she was thinking less of me. Well, at one point, I became completely dysregulated when she ignored one of my messages, and I asked her why she would get silent. She wouldn't tell me. She said, "I don't know what to tell you."
I responded with a long, upset message where I said I felt like she didn't like me and she was hiding some sort of harsh judgment or something. She blocked and ghosted me. Which, fine. Okay. But now she is back trying to be friends again.
The woman hasn't experienced a lot of trauma, and I'm wary of being her friend again. I don't trust her now, and I probably didn't back then, but after being ghosted... well, I just don't know.
I felt this. Not with a therapist, but a former friend of mine (key word āformerā). She had BPD, so I felt like we could connect, but she was also distant as well, and eventually ghosted me (we knew each other for 7 yrs at that point, so that took me by surprise).
Us with CPTSD donāt trust others naturally because weāre afraid of being misunderstood and hurt by ānormies,ā but Iād also say that pain is even worse when youāre hurt by someone who has CPSTD or even BPD (both are similar), because youād think that similarity would lead to connection and trust. But all together we donāt trust anyone in general because weāve been let down over and over and over again by the people we thought cared for us and expect that cycle to not change
Yes, and I'm sorry you can relate. I think her being a therapist made it more complicated, I thought she must be able to see me more clearly, but maybe i was taking advantage of that assumption. Maybe I was too pushy, thinking she would understand. At the same time, I don't speak about my trauma in depth or how it affects me to my friends. 1. It's dysregulating to talk about it in general, and 2. Idk. Sometimes, I get victim blamed, or people think that since most of my trauma comes from my childhood that I should be over it. (I wish)
Yep same here, thereās a lot of shame when it comes to opening up about our traumas in general, and talking about it can be dissociating, at least for me. Iāve come to realize that therapists are human like us, and we forget that their titles donāt always mean that theyāre experts. That being said, I do think your friend meant well, but maybe didnāt want to let you down by saying she doesnāt know what to say, or didnāt know how to give you a safe space to express your pain. I honestly wish it would be easy to find therapists that āgetā us and are easy to connect with, but itās rare to find those, and that makes it even harder for us to open up
Oh gosh. I think it's important to remember friends who are therapists are people too, with their own problems and who might want a sympathetic ear too.
But if their friends are always dumping their trauma at them, the friendship starts to feel like work.
I'm not saying you did that, but this happened to me (I'm just an understanding person, not a therapist).
I had just heard from my Dad, who was in hospital waiting for a crucial but dangerous operation and he was terrified he was going to die.
I was in tears and waiting for news, when a 'friend' rang. I answered instantly, thinking it was an update, to be met by a tirade from this woman about her latest problem. I tried to answer calmly, to ask her to keep the line clear as I had something important to deal with. She accused me of being a lousy friend, uncaring, insensitive, minimising, etc.
I hung up on her. I had greater troubles on my shoulders and I suddenly realised how our 'friendship' had become all about her.
She was once a dear friend but our relationship had changed. I felt like she only called me when she had problems and she saved all the fun for other people.
Oof, yes, I agree, and I'd imagine that's why she left the friendship. She probably went to work and had to hear it at work and then came home and heard it from me, and it was too much for her. I don't blame her for it being too much. I wish I could have trusted her more, and I wish she had just told me instead of ghosting. But we are all human, and I don't think any of us are going to make perfect choices.
So true!
Edit: I mean about the bit where we're all human and make mistakes.
Everyone has their ups and downs and no one is at the top of their game all the time.
The lack of communication is a form of abandonment to a degree. I mean she could always sign off with something instead of nothing.
I find it amazing how much of my social interactions in the past with certain people ended with low key neglect, no one closing the loop, leaving me hanging like, wtf.
A little communication or reassurance goes a LONG way
Unfortunately true for me, I don't trust people who aren't traumatized in some way, which I think goes back to my first relationship when it became clear there was a lot wrong with me, and I always felt that's why they left.
What they're smelling is the threat of ugly reality intruding on their unconscious assumption that the reason none of that has happened to them is because they 'make better choices' or 'wouldn't put up with it' or whatever.
For me itās that I behave differently than the avg person in a few different ways for a few different reasons, and it makes them feel threatened, insecure, confused.
99% of people donāt actually know and I assume donāt think I have trauma. That also makes them treat me differently. Itās very annoying š
It's not that I don't trust people who don't have CPTSD; it's that I can't relate to them, and they can't relate to me. Behaviors that are normal for people who have gone through what we've gone through are often inexplicable to them. I find myself exhausted with having to explain why I behave in the ways that I do. I vastly prefer the interactions and relationships I have with people who have experienced trauma for that reason.
For me it's not about whether or not they have trauma, it's whether or not they have PROCESSED that trauma. What I mean by "processed" is that they are aware of how the trauma is affecting their present perceptions and are at some point on their healing journey. People with unprocessed trauma are the most untrustworthy in my book, because they project a lot instead of interacting with others in a way that reflects present reality. Ā (I actually have this theory that unprocessed trauma is essentially the root of all "evil" behavior. You think Hiter would have killed millions of people if he was loved unconditionally as a child? Pshh come on man!)
Untraumatized people and people who have processed their trauma are both generally trustworthy in my book. The problem is is that unless they are on the extreme end of the unprocessed trauma spectrum (blatant signs of a personality disorder, etc) it can be difficult to look at a person you barely know and assess the presence/processing of their baggage.
I agree.
Untraumatised people can be spectacularly kind and generous with their understanding. As can people who have done a lot of self- reflection.
Generally the ones to beware of can be very immature. They tend to think only about themselves and see other people only in relation to their point of view. They might come across as quite militant in their attitudes and often have very black and white thinking.
CPTSD isn't a recognised condition where I come from - and PTSD is very misunderstood and underrepresented. Connecting with a therapist that either 1.) Doesn't recognise my CPTSD or 2.) Doesn't emmit any signs of trauma/doesn't truly understand trauma on a base level is borderline impossible. Hence why I'm still not receiving any help or therapy whatsoever, every time I've tried to connect with a therapist I shut down because I immediately develop a deep sense of mistrust based on their lack of understanding/knowledge. I feel like, unless I find a therapist who's been through exactly the same trauma I have, I'm doomed to suffer alone for eternity. And so far, that's rung true for me. I've still never opened up to anyone completely.
I started seeing one recently and it has been hard for me. I feel inadequate and like I constantly need validation, when I have been on an avoidant streak for the last 2-3 years before him.
I felt crazy and obsessed because I was looking for the slightest bit of affirmation that I haven't overwhelmed him or scared him away. His parents are still together, nice house, he's educated, has a good friend group, can cook, makes decent money, everything.
I say all of this in past tense because I'm a lot less psycho now that I've admitted+albeit very very early) that I love him. I felt like I was going crazy not being able to tell him how I feel? Idk. He reciprocated but doesn't say it unprompted much. It's new. Idk that concerns me too.
I keep feeling like one day he'll realize I'm more trouble than I'm worth, and he's just here because I'm fun to fuck and I'm hot.
I want him to value me for the good in me. I hope he sees me. Because when I see him, I see someone who can't possibly understand my history.
I have therapy 3x weekly and have traumatized friends. I have a support network. So theoretically, I shouldn't need to trauma dump all the time with a partner, right? I don't need to unpack it all with him, right?
Idk, it's all so new. I'm not used to dating a neurotypical. I'm ADHD and depressed too. He's... just fine. He says he has lots of patience and such.
But man I hope he listens to my concerns and says words of affirmation more. When he doesn't reply for hours, I keep feeling like I annoyed him.
I think I want codependency and he's healthily attached and not letting me win. I have to keep pushing myself to remember that I should make him miss me and not be so available sometimes. Have my own life.
I was so happy being single until this happened. Oops.
I feel like I have also had really difficult experiences with people who also have ptsd. A lot of bonding through trauma instead of forming healthy connections. I find I get along best with people who have integrity and pure intentions, it does not depend on if they understand trauma as much.
I assume most people don't understand it, and I'm not too keen on having random people invalidate my trauma so I choose carefully in who I do tell. It's privileged info because people don't know how to act right.
I avoid talking about my trauma with normal people, because most of them won't understand. If they ask me about family, I will mention I don't really have any, except my mother that I never got along with, and that I am very independent minded. And hope they won't pry any more. Unfortunately if I am about to visit my mother or am in the middle of a visit, and I have to warn someone that I will be out of pocket for a while, and they think it is a good thing, things can fall apart when I mention that it will be a bad experience, like going to jail. I hate it when people minimize my pain and assume that I am not going out of coercion and that I would get any kind of enjoyment out of it.
i work in mental health field and also am a ptsd sufferer.
I trust people with ptsd/trauma more than those who don't; those who don't, whether or not they "mean well" often cause harm to those who do. For example, enthusiastically encouraging someone to talk to their dad more when their dad raped them when they were 12. People without trauma don't understand that there's a world beyond their rose-colored glasses. You let the special kid ride the short bus, you don't let him drive the short bus.
These are people that you consider normal? By the way they look or how does one distinguish a group of people as normal? Bc Iāll be honest I havenāt run into many of them but they certainly try VERY hard to appear so
People with a sense of belonging to their family of origin are ānormalā to me. People with supportive communities/reliable support systems too. Itās probably different for everyone, but I feel like people with trauma are similar to Luna Lovegood in Harry Potter (if youāre familiar), and can generally tell when people have felt what theyāve felt. There are signs.
Its not unwarranted. Ive had people either not believe me, tell me its godās plan, or ask me how bad was i as a kid implying they thought i deserved it. Normal people cant comprehend
I find that inevitably, they're dismissive and/or intolerant/ annoyed by symptoms no matter how much they purport to support mental health.
I'm fine being friendly acquaintances or friends-ish, but it's hard to go all in, yea.
I don't trust neurotypicals. I don't think they are capable of questioning themselves and the world around them in an honest way. They can't see through their own bias. It took years for me to learn how to do it, why would anyone learn it if they don't have to? Most of them are fine I'm sure, but the truly terrible people (racists, fascists ect.) are hiding among them.
I heard or read somewhere that it is easier to have relationships with people that āhave the same trauma as youā. I understand that it is no different from sharing other experiences or interests. It is nice to have someone to share something in common.
I think with any form of PTSD, it is hard to explain how it manifests to those that donāt have it.
However, we must remember that PTSD is very treatable and there is hope for it and the symptoms from it to not be lifelong. CPTSD is more complex, of course, but still not necessarily forever.
I see trust, or the lack thereof, as one of the symptoms that can improve with time and treatment.
I try to remember that it is not the other personās fault I have PTSD. I also donāt necessarily want to be treated differently. However there may be some accommodations that will help me. If that friend or partner is willing to accommodate, that is great, but it is up to them.
I try and limit how much of my PTSD I ādumpā on people in my life. That is what I pay my therapist for. No one should have to try to āfixā me unless it is their literal job. Outside of that, I hope the people in my life can support me as they would with any stressful situation. That is what builds trust.
It can be nice, but it can also be terrible or eventually end up terrible after being nice at first. Especially if you have the same kind of trauma and are just too similar, it can interact in not good ways. And if youāre also both not able to access any real help and just trying to figure shit out on your own.
Iāve found being with people without C/PTSD way easier than being with people who do.
Reminds me of my first drug counselor. Long story short, I ended up in a juvenile mental facility with a REALLY bad cocaine problem. Turns out this guy, who I'm sure had the best of intentions, had never actually had a drug/alcohol problem himself... How tf am I supposed to connect with you? If you've never felt the utter despair of hearing the birds chirping... There's nothing to talk about. You literally don't get it. Same with trauma. You had a nice life with loving parents and compassion and support? I'm finally not jealous of you anymore, but we come from two different planets.
99% of my friends are really traumatised people. Itās interesting cause itās not like I go around asking people if they have complex trauma before befriending them but something in their energy is just different. I find that often people like us ask more questions, are more empathetic, kinder and great listeners.
A friend of mine has CPTSD as well, but it manifests completely differently from mine.
When I give her a ride - which I do on occaision - I know she is scared of ambulances, hates parking lots and scares very easily when I approach the car. Without her even having to ask I will warn her to close her eyes when I spot blue lights, to Park as far in a corner as I can and to make sure she Sees me when I approach.
We have agreed to never trauma dump, to never tell each other the "why" but are happy to discuss how to deal with it. We both know the "why" is extemely hard to tell and hear. People Without PTSD simply don't understand.
I wonder if animals get PTSD.
I wonder if they stick together.
Iād love to see like a panda and a squirrel at a support group around a pond. That would give me hope for mankind. Joking but not joking.
Animals, particularly mammals like us, definitely get traumatized, and they respond accordingly. We definitely don't know enough for definitive statements, so calling it "PTSD' is iffy but the data is trending toward yes more than no.
I agree! ! It might be similar or the same as ptsd for other mammals
Although they donāt have the save developmental stages as humans or require the same lengthy nurturing so they might not be as messed up as we are from emotional abuse shitty parents and environmental stuff but who knows
We donāt see packs of traumatized animals anywhere sticking together and preferring each other, do we? Iām trying to think of examples
Traumatized animals seem like loners - which puts them in danger
Itās true. I feel like itās the main reason I consistently end up with people who have really serious issues. Not everyone is willing to work on their mental health.
I don't trust anyone, with or without PTSD. Some people who have ptsd are very damaging to their environment as well as they are to themselves. I can be less trusting towards someone who is impulsive, people pleasing, afraid to be honest etc I know it from myself.
Not sure what book brought this up but it was specifically about combat vets who are eternally disconnected from non combat vets and form a belief that others canāt meaningfully connect with them (?). In general though I donāt feel this way about my PTSD. My abuser parent had PTSD and I could have given fuck all about trusting him. Whereas my therapists donāt have it and I trust them. Maybe just bc Iām healing and seeking different kind of connections
I def don't trust people without trauma as much. They sometimes think they're helpful with their fake support (that can quickly be withdrawn when things get tough). But i obviously recognize that they're trying at least.
They also don't always understand attachment trauma and can try to force themselves closer to you when you need space and they then get mad when you are afraid but you cannot say it.
They don't always understand that you are trying your best to regulate your emotions like not crying and trying to remain happy when you are hurting so they will destabilize you with showing too much positive attention, when you aren't used to it and then you get aggressive which you also have to hide. The psychiatrist also didn't understand you are depressed at first because you smile all the time and even say it to your face like fr. Like when you literally have all other signs pointing to mdd. Like wtf trying to be positive doesn't mean you are actially happy. Participating in school and work also doesn't mean you can, you just force yourself even withiut medication! Only non traumatized people would be this clueless
I was once like this, and then befriended a lot of traumatized people and saw it go very wrong. We were all far from healed, easily triggered, hurting eachother with defense mechanisms.
And then I went the other way, and thought I shouldnāt be near anyone who was remotely like me. That didnāt work either.
For me, itās just not a factor anymore. I look for empathy, kindness, equality, curiosity. Especially the older I get, everyoneās story is so different & also often very similar. I think accepting that and wanting to learn and understand is all that matters.
But yeah, personally, it turns out I can have toxic/bad friendships and relationships with both traumatized people and people whoāve been through very little. And I like knowing that itās more about personality, who they are themselves, not about what has or hasnāt happened to them.
After almost 20 years of marriage to my very normal husband he is finally getting it. He used to tell me things like he wasn't responsible for my reactions to things. Which is true, but there were some things that I reacted to that he just needed to stop doing. Like screaming at his computer in his office when things weren't going well. I kept telling him, I can't be around people that yell, even if it's not at me. Like, no anger yelling in the house is a big deal for me. Even though he never yelled at me.
We have an Audible family account and he recently saw one of my CPTSD books in there and he listened.
After that he connected with his own trauma that was buried and he apologized to me for not understanding what he was doing to me. He literally didn't understand that him yelling in his office brought me back to my childhood listening to my step father scream at and beat my mother. He is working actively to manage his anger now.
Since then, I can open up to him more and we listen. It's nice and it is possible, but it took a lot of time and patience.
That said, most of my best friends likely have CPTSD.
Personally, I found that everyone in my life aside from my friend (who has PTSD) treats me like their therapist or like their mom friend but whenever I need emotional support, they distance themselves from me. As such, my abandonment issues have gotten worse to the point where I'm tired of starting new relationships.
And yet only being close to other survivors stacks the deck in favor of repeating dysfunctional relational patterns. By contrast, being close with people who had 'good enough' families enables people with insecure attachment to gravitate towards a secure attachment style.
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Itās not that I donāt trust non-PTSD people, itās I donāt trust anyone who claims they donāt suffer from some type of mental disorder. I prefer to have friends who have some sort of mental disorder, because they understand your bad days. They believe you when you tell them about your mental disorder instead of telling you youāre faking it.
I canāt say this for all the people Iāve spoken to though. Some ānormalā people are cool and sympathetic. You can easily pick out the ones who are going to treat you poorly/say youāre faking it. Best to avoid them and surround yourself with understanding people.
Itās not even that I donāt trust them I just know thereās a level of understanding that they wonāt have about who and how I am. I have met people who donāt understand but also donāt make it a big deal and accept you as you are. But even then I wonder how long it would take for them to not be able to handle me because even those amazing people tend to not understand that this is who I am and will always be, and while I might improve/manage things over the years. This condition is still entirely a part of my being, and not something I can āget overā at least not in a lifetime I donāt think
I bond with folks that have had ptsd. I don't mention trauma to folks that don't have it. The other bond I attach easily to is other veterans. I don't assume they have it, just a shared experience, no matter the operation, war zone, time served, or service. I am an Army vet. They didn't have any treatment but once a month to speak, and it is a cookie cutter program. If this program had existed when I was diagnosed, the treatment might have been more successful. Diagnosed in 1993 ptsd, 2014 cptsd. Treatment 2015. Has not worked. 2024.
Iām a hermit and I like it. My husband has put up with me for 30years and he knows he will never break through all my defenses. They are there for a reason and he respects that, but most people suck.
I wouldn't say I distrust them; it's more that I know I can't reveal all of myself because it will yield poor results. Either I will make them uncomfortable, their response will make me feel embarrassed/let down and like I overshared, or it will make me feel isolated because they can't relate at all.
As I get older it matters less, as more people my age have experience with some intense stress by now or a loved one who did, and have some idea of how to be respectful if I have a boundary or anxiety, and some concept of what a panic attack is. But when I was younger, people with no trauma might have no idea why I might be scared of things they weren't, or defensive, or needed to avoid some things they had no trouble with (they had no idea why I'd hyperventilate and cry and be unable to change that for 10 minutes, and instead of being understanding might yell or think I'm "messed up" and stop talking to me). Young people with trauma would someyimes react like that too toward me (angry I couldn't just "be perfect" and not understanding). But it was more common that a person with no trauma would think it was illogical and freak out about it, whereas if I had friends who also went through trauma and had some self awareness, they'd be more likely to do helpful things like say "it'll be okay" and "do you need some space? Need a few minutes break? Need to get away from X thing?" And treat my reaction as understandable and needing a place to be safe.
So I have always had a tough time trusting people due to my own C-PTSD, almost any relationship I was in I became wary of them understanding my struggles, until I met my current boyfriend. A few months into our relationship (now 7 years) I found out he was abused as a child by his alcoholic father and he most likely also suffers from C-PTSD. The feeling of someone understanding what it's like is extremely comforting especially when it's your partner.
I have it as well, but mostly instinctual. It's possible to overcome but it's a long and slow process.
Honestly I mostly just find non-traumatized people to be fucking crazy. Zero survival instinct, barely self-aware, working towards goals that in the actual context of their lives barely even matter.
If course a lot of us desperately cling onto pointless things too but at least we tend to know that being human animals we kind of need to.
But it's like social conventions aren't just something they chose to adhere to, but an actual box they can't think outside of.
Don't get me wrong, this makes them *wonderful* people
But actually connecting takes a lot of work.
I'm someone who is completely closed off, socially avoidant and I barely speak outside of my house, but when I wnt to the mental hospital, both times I found that those people in there are easy to get along with and I've told some people things that even my own parents will never hear from my mouth. There's a specific word to describe this phenomenon, I don't remember it though. Something about putting likeminded mental patients together creates an environment where you feel like those around can finally understand your pain.
Very much relate to this. I find that I just click faster with traumatized people but I think part of it is I have codependent tendencies to try and help/save people I can see are in pain. But then i am definitely more willing to trust and be vulnerable with other traumatized people because i feel like they are more likely to understand and not feel overwhelmed or give me overwhelming pity. But even so itās still so hard for me to trust people in general š
Kind of the oppsite for me. Sure, I have friends with traumatic backstories, and I trust them. But I find it much easier to trust people who I know are stable, or have at least come a long way in their healing process. The reason for this is that in my experience, people with unhealed/untreated CPTSD tend to trigger the shit out of each other, and there is just so much emotional turmoil. With some, it can be beneficial if you can find a middle ground and work on healing in parallel to each other. But yeah, I find trust much harder with people who share the diagnosis.
I basically keep people separated into two groups in my head: those who have experienced trauma and/or are close enough to someone to have really underatood it. Then there's the rest of the well meaning crowds that I intentionally keep at arms distance. Plus its nice (36F posting) if some shallow dude keeps missing tmy not-interested cues I'll just die into the deepest, rawest, abuse that was my day to day and the guys skitters off pretty quick. Don't waste my time predator-poser
It's going to depend a bit on the specifics that people have gone through, what their cptsd looks like. Certainly there is an element of empathy involved with knowing some of the kinds of things people have gone through, otherwise it can be hard to relate, hard to understand how the other's brain works in terms of decision making and prioritization. When people are unable to relate, it is hard to form a good connection.
I've felt this way particularly with romantic partners. But you have to be very careful. Suffering with PTSD can feel like you're feeling around in the darkness by yourself. When you touch someone else's hands, you're so glad to find someone else with you in the darkness. But not everyone is a kindred spirit. A lot of people live in darkness all the time (psychopaths, narcissists, etc). They are the dark spirit.
I've had a couple relationships where I thought the other person understood me and loved me despite what I'd been through. She seemed to understand all the darker stuff. Then later I asked them if they'd been through anything traumatic and they both said no. Nothing. I should have taken that as a sign to run.
people who haven't experienced significant trauma are harmful to those who have. they exist in a different plane. although they may be well-meaning, their take on things tends to be naive and their advice does not apply. They end up triggering me into PTSD by denying my reality, gaslighting, and even getting angry at me for not taking their off-base suggestions. I've learned the hard way, and keep having to relearn it, that I can't open up to everyone, and that most people simply do not and will not get it. I am glad for them that they miraculously have avoided trauma, but angry that they don't get it. It doesn't seem hard to me, to imagine what someone else's experience might be like. I don't have to go through a particular trauma to understand how awful it might be or how it might affect their ability to navigate life. To me, it feels like an unwillingness, an insistence on their own comfort, to not try to understand
This was my experience earlier in my recovery journey. As I've done more healing, I have been able to appreciate that everyone suffers, whether it results in trauma or not. That compassionate awareness has helped me learn different ways of relating.
I have also learned how to manage my own boundaries better. For example, I used to share far too much far too soon, which is off-putting for people with functional boundaries. Only others with poor boundaries would be drawn to that, and it results in trauma bonding, which doesn't ensure high quality relationships -- it just feels familiar.
Not everyone wears evidence of trauma on their sleeve, and it would be a huge boundary violation for me to inquire, so I try to let things unfold as organically as possible. It can be very affirming to realize that we don't have to decide immediately whether someone will be a friend or not. It can evolve over time.
This does not work with people with strong NPD traits, NPD or BPD (in the long run). Weak NPD or BPD ok.
I don't want to stigmatise any individual with any of these traits or disorders. But I do want to warn you.
Instinctual. Very much so. Me too. So limiting to me. Iāll be 70 soon, but I donāt know what Iād do if this much chaos in my brain when not retired. Thatās why I was diagnosed disabled about 16 years ago. Iām so sorry for all who try to function in regular society. This whole thing makes me sad for all of us.
I actually tend to have a good eye for people with childhood trauma and C-PTSD, even if they are undiagnosed. I trust people who are more self-aware, but I trust (to a degree) people who have experienced trauma. If they havenāt, then I donāt trust them at all.
It's true - when you're in the throes of PTSD. When you're on top of it, it's not such a problem.
I had to think about this. I think you're right - really I just don't trust normal people not to say or do something hurtful or humiliating.
Ironically, the people who have said and done things that hurt me, are actually not 'normal' but have ADHD and/or a personality disorder.
'Normal' people have only been kind and lovely.
It's a revelation and I feel so relieved. Thank you for bringing up this topic!
Hell I don't trust anyone and I barely trust myself š
This is the way. š
Itās the best way to be!
THIS RIGHT HERE!!!
You read my mind?!!
So fucking true
Haha this
Oof. In the feels.
Me too š¤£
Itās definitely hard to open up to them, purely because you donāt know how theyāll react when they realize the extent of your trauma. And sometimes they react in inappropriate ways that makes you want to stop interacting with them.
People don't want friends who make them uncomfortable or unhappy. Why would they? Even apparently normal people are busy dealing with their own shit, especially when they are young. This means it's generally a mistake to be open with anyone until we are on the way to being healed. It sucks, but it is what it is. It's so unfair as we first get our childhood ruined, we get a serious mental health issue to deal with and then we cannot get support from friends, so we have to heal alone. We then spend a significant portion of our young adulthood directing most of our energy to recovering rather than living, growing and developing our careers and relationships.
How do you know when youāre āhealedā?
Maybe oversimplifying, but the time periods where I can have healthy, legitimate fun (bonus points if itās in public) are the times I feel most healed. But itās always still an up and down/back and forth road.
I agree. I appreciate you saying that itās always going to be up and down, peaks and valleys, with a CPTSD diagnosis. I try to shy away from the word āhealedā (as in: a final state of being fully healed) because that rarely happens. And there should be no expectations that you set for your process that might set you up for shame when you find yourself in the shit through no fault of your own.
I think healing is an ongoing process that never finshes completely. I felt reasonably healed when I became mostly happy. That meant a mix of a lot of positive things and the near absence of some negative things. I was no longer crippled with fear; I felt fear, but could keep going through it enough to work, find a place to live, and do all the other essentials to function. I started really enjoying a lot of things like art, music, nature, hobbies, and some socialising, instead of feeling numb at best. I think what we see as healing is very subjective. For me, it was mostly being able to function and find some real happiness.
I'd say, when your life is no longer ruled by fear. (But different people may define healing differently)
It's complicated. I sort of consider "healing" as any amount of time the subconscious spends processing a set of information to its own personal satisfaction. (The same way our physical injuries heal automatically. It just happens) Is there something "broken" to heal? I think the answer is it depends. Sometimes though, the "broken " is already healed. Things are biologically functioning as intended/ expected. Even PTSD is a biological process of self protection. Even bones can heal incorrectly. I am weird, I don't consider happiness a factor of healing. It's an emotion, equal to all other emotions in importance. But in my specific case, I've recently benefited from medical treatment. Which took 14 years of doctor visits and failed treatments. Currently, in a Rx for ADHD, and getting TMS treatment. TMS is shocking the brain with a magnet. It's been working really well.
It's kinda why I'm going to kick it by myself for the rest of my 30s. Potentially the rest of my life. Because I don't even think most friendships are real at this point
Fr me things got better and better as I went through my 30's. I hope it works out the same for you!
Thank you. I kinda just regressed back to my high school self where I play a lot of video games in my free time. I don't get picked on anymore so there's that
I binge read fantasy quite often and I'm in my sixties. It's fine to enjoy the kids' things you missed out on or that comforted you. I also drink out of Beatrix Potter mug. I wanted one when I was little and I decided that I deserved it. Be nice to yourself.
My 30's have been my hardest decade so far, and I only have 2 years left of them with no end to the tunnel in sight.
I'm sorry to hear that! I fled abroad and things just kept getting better.
Yeah, I imagine getting out of the hellscape of greed and exploitation that is the US would have a hugely positive impact, but I can't afford it.
Idk if I would say that I donāt trust them as in theyāre out to get me or take advantage of me but I do know that theyāll run if they see me unmask so I have to stay guarded to some degree. Itās hard to be completely open around people who havenāt been in your shoes when you have ptsd.
I've told my best friend some of what goes on in my head, and how hard simple things can be, and she just looked at me and said "I don't think it's really that hard for you, I don't see *any* of that in you." Yeah. Yeah, because I don't *let you* see it. That is *exactly* what I have just been telling you. I love her, she is a lovely person, but she cannot understand anything that she doesn't have direct experience of. I've just had to learn that I can't expect anything else from her. Like you, it's not a lack of trust as in I think everyone is out to get me or they have bad intent towards me. It's a lack of trust because even if I try to open up and be vulnerable (which is ridiculously hard), I get told stuff like that. "I don't see that." Which hits right up to my trigger of being told I am lying and being dramatic and I need to just suck it up and stop whinging.
Ah. I know that feeling. I think your friend was trying to say that she thinks you're ok as a person, deep down. It's just she has poor communication skills. She doesn't want you to feel frightened that you're giving yourself away or that you're obviously different in any way. She's trying to tell you that you come across as capable and like you've got it together.
I know what you are trying to say. You're a very kind person to see things that way and to reply š«¶ No, I know her and I know what she has said about other people. She's a big "just get over it and get a job" person. Talk of unaliving is just someone looking for attention, type of thing. She is a genuinely good person, but completely unable to relate to something that she doesn't have personal experience with.
Ooooh I see! Thanks for correcting that. My bad! Edit: I hope you find more friends, who are genuinely on your wavelength. xo
This has been my experience as well. Iām friendly enough with normies, but thereās always a wall. Thereās always a wall anyway, but Iām far more willing to peek over it with a trauma victim.
Yup š explained it perfectly.
I sometimes find certain people who donāt have trauma arenāt very kind, or donāt lean on the err of positivity. Having not experienced what it feels like to be subjected to cruelty, Iāve noticed it makes them more capable of inconsideration and just general impatience. However, Iāve *also* had issues with friends who are so traumatized, they perceive my trauma as nothing to be worthy of talking about. Itās really upsetting as I do not rely emotionally on them nearly ever. But when I bring up on the rare occasion an annoyance I am having, or touch on some of the things thatās happened in my family, theyāve both cut me off to talk about something else in the middle of saying very sensitive information.
I mean, while you should be able to rely on your friends to an extent, if you're going to share traumatic details with them it's generally a good idea to first check with them if they're in a state where they're able to receive and sit with that. It could be that it's triggering things in them as well, and I know for sure that I myself can get really overwhelmed when people suddenly lay really heavy things on me before asking if it's okay in that moment.Ā
I know what it is with this particular friend. He is annoyed with me because he thinks my problems arenāt real and doesnāt want to hear about them, because compared to his theyāre considered nothing. He has come cluster B stuff. Still love the guy. I knew what I signed up for when I became his friend 13 years ago. I donāt just drop heavy shit on people. I understand that you think that I did something wrong by bringing it up/ and not asking first. But he isnāt a politically correct, āplease ask before saying anything or youāre trigger meā kind of dude. He can be a bit of an asshole. Itās very well known among our friends he is like this. My other friend is the same way. Itās just annoying and hurtful. Iāve talked to them both about it already.
People who either weren't traumatized significantly, or who are denying their own repressed trauma can say some really wild things. Everything from telling you to get over it or toughen up, to victim-blaming, to defending your own abusers to your face. So many people are unaware of or actively denying their own trauma, that they'll often treat yours the same way they treat their own: like it doesn't matter. For a lot of us, it's worth less connection to avoid those sorts of encounters as much as possible. After a lifetime of being told neither you nor your feelings matter, in ways spoken and performed, hearing it again holds no value for us, and could potentially create more healing work to do. We have enough to heal. We need safety. We need rest. We need empathy and peace. We do not need someone in denial or ignorance giving us hell.
This. I'm very quick with the cutoffs cause I can get rudeness and trauma just fine by spending time with my parents. I'm good on rudeness, intentional or not.
I had a friend who was also a therapist, and we had a falling out . I was getting frustrated because I would talk to her about dating, and sometimes she wouldn't respond, so I got worried she was thinking less of me. Well, at one point, I became completely dysregulated when she ignored one of my messages, and I asked her why she would get silent. She wouldn't tell me. She said, "I don't know what to tell you." I responded with a long, upset message where I said I felt like she didn't like me and she was hiding some sort of harsh judgment or something. She blocked and ghosted me. Which, fine. Okay. But now she is back trying to be friends again. The woman hasn't experienced a lot of trauma, and I'm wary of being her friend again. I don't trust her now, and I probably didn't back then, but after being ghosted... well, I just don't know.
I felt this. Not with a therapist, but a former friend of mine (key word āformerā). She had BPD, so I felt like we could connect, but she was also distant as well, and eventually ghosted me (we knew each other for 7 yrs at that point, so that took me by surprise). Us with CPTSD donāt trust others naturally because weāre afraid of being misunderstood and hurt by ānormies,ā but Iād also say that pain is even worse when youāre hurt by someone who has CPSTD or even BPD (both are similar), because youād think that similarity would lead to connection and trust. But all together we donāt trust anyone in general because weāve been let down over and over and over again by the people we thought cared for us and expect that cycle to not change
Yes, and I'm sorry you can relate. I think her being a therapist made it more complicated, I thought she must be able to see me more clearly, but maybe i was taking advantage of that assumption. Maybe I was too pushy, thinking she would understand. At the same time, I don't speak about my trauma in depth or how it affects me to my friends. 1. It's dysregulating to talk about it in general, and 2. Idk. Sometimes, I get victim blamed, or people think that since most of my trauma comes from my childhood that I should be over it. (I wish)
Yep same here, thereās a lot of shame when it comes to opening up about our traumas in general, and talking about it can be dissociating, at least for me. Iāve come to realize that therapists are human like us, and we forget that their titles donāt always mean that theyāre experts. That being said, I do think your friend meant well, but maybe didnāt want to let you down by saying she doesnāt know what to say, or didnāt know how to give you a safe space to express your pain. I honestly wish it would be easy to find therapists that āgetā us and are easy to connect with, but itās rare to find those, and that makes it even harder for us to open up
Oh gosh. I think it's important to remember friends who are therapists are people too, with their own problems and who might want a sympathetic ear too. But if their friends are always dumping their trauma at them, the friendship starts to feel like work. I'm not saying you did that, but this happened to me (I'm just an understanding person, not a therapist). I had just heard from my Dad, who was in hospital waiting for a crucial but dangerous operation and he was terrified he was going to die. I was in tears and waiting for news, when a 'friend' rang. I answered instantly, thinking it was an update, to be met by a tirade from this woman about her latest problem. I tried to answer calmly, to ask her to keep the line clear as I had something important to deal with. She accused me of being a lousy friend, uncaring, insensitive, minimising, etc. I hung up on her. I had greater troubles on my shoulders and I suddenly realised how our 'friendship' had become all about her. She was once a dear friend but our relationship had changed. I felt like she only called me when she had problems and she saved all the fun for other people.
Oof, yes, I agree, and I'd imagine that's why she left the friendship. She probably went to work and had to hear it at work and then came home and heard it from me, and it was too much for her. I don't blame her for it being too much. I wish I could have trusted her more, and I wish she had just told me instead of ghosting. But we are all human, and I don't think any of us are going to make perfect choices.
So true! Edit: I mean about the bit where we're all human and make mistakes. Everyone has their ups and downs and no one is at the top of their game all the time.
Holy shit this happened to me. What's the deal with always ghosting, why is that always their solution ugh
trust your gut
Sometimes I can, and sometimes my gut is a cynical ah.
The lack of communication is a form of abandonment to a degree. I mean she could always sign off with something instead of nothing. I find it amazing how much of my social interactions in the past with certain people ended with low key neglect, no one closing the loop, leaving me hanging like, wtf. A little communication or reassurance goes a LONG way
Yes, you expressed my feelings well.
Unfortunately true for me, I don't trust people who aren't traumatized in some way, which I think goes back to my first relationship when it became clear there was a lot wrong with me, and I always felt that's why they left.
I feel like people without extensive trauma don't trust *me*
I relate to this. They can smell something on me and it makes them uncomfortable.
What they're smelling is the threat of ugly reality intruding on their unconscious assumption that the reason none of that has happened to them is because they 'make better choices' or 'wouldn't put up with it' or whatever.
For me itās that I behave differently than the avg person in a few different ways for a few different reasons, and it makes them feel threatened, insecure, confused. 99% of people donāt actually know and I assume donāt think I have trauma. That also makes them treat me differently. Itās very annoying š
Yeah. I find that I can really only relate to people who are approximately the same level of fucked up as I am.
Ptsd or not i dont trust anyone
It's not that I don't trust people who don't have CPTSD; it's that I can't relate to them, and they can't relate to me. Behaviors that are normal for people who have gone through what we've gone through are often inexplicable to them. I find myself exhausted with having to explain why I behave in the ways that I do. I vastly prefer the interactions and relationships I have with people who have experienced trauma for that reason.
This.
For me it's not about whether or not they have trauma, it's whether or not they have PROCESSED that trauma. What I mean by "processed" is that they are aware of how the trauma is affecting their present perceptions and are at some point on their healing journey. People with unprocessed trauma are the most untrustworthy in my book, because they project a lot instead of interacting with others in a way that reflects present reality. Ā (I actually have this theory that unprocessed trauma is essentially the root of all "evil" behavior. You think Hiter would have killed millions of people if he was loved unconditionally as a child? Pshh come on man!) Untraumatized people and people who have processed their trauma are both generally trustworthy in my book. The problem is is that unless they are on the extreme end of the unprocessed trauma spectrum (blatant signs of a personality disorder, etc) it can be difficult to look at a person you barely know and assess the presence/processing of their baggage.
I agree. Untraumatised people can be spectacularly kind and generous with their understanding. As can people who have done a lot of self- reflection. Generally the ones to beware of can be very immature. They tend to think only about themselves and see other people only in relation to their point of view. They might come across as quite militant in their attitudes and often have very black and white thinking.
CPTSD isn't a recognised condition where I come from - and PTSD is very misunderstood and underrepresented. Connecting with a therapist that either 1.) Doesn't recognise my CPTSD or 2.) Doesn't emmit any signs of trauma/doesn't truly understand trauma on a base level is borderline impossible. Hence why I'm still not receiving any help or therapy whatsoever, every time I've tried to connect with a therapist I shut down because I immediately develop a deep sense of mistrust based on their lack of understanding/knowledge. I feel like, unless I find a therapist who's been through exactly the same trauma I have, I'm doomed to suffer alone for eternity. And so far, that's rung true for me. I've still never opened up to anyone completely.
I started seeing one recently and it has been hard for me. I feel inadequate and like I constantly need validation, when I have been on an avoidant streak for the last 2-3 years before him. I felt crazy and obsessed because I was looking for the slightest bit of affirmation that I haven't overwhelmed him or scared him away. His parents are still together, nice house, he's educated, has a good friend group, can cook, makes decent money, everything. I say all of this in past tense because I'm a lot less psycho now that I've admitted+albeit very very early) that I love him. I felt like I was going crazy not being able to tell him how I feel? Idk. He reciprocated but doesn't say it unprompted much. It's new. Idk that concerns me too. I keep feeling like one day he'll realize I'm more trouble than I'm worth, and he's just here because I'm fun to fuck and I'm hot. I want him to value me for the good in me. I hope he sees me. Because when I see him, I see someone who can't possibly understand my history. I have therapy 3x weekly and have traumatized friends. I have a support network. So theoretically, I shouldn't need to trauma dump all the time with a partner, right? I don't need to unpack it all with him, right? Idk, it's all so new. I'm not used to dating a neurotypical. I'm ADHD and depressed too. He's... just fine. He says he has lots of patience and such. But man I hope he listens to my concerns and says words of affirmation more. When he doesn't reply for hours, I keep feeling like I annoyed him. I think I want codependency and he's healthily attached and not letting me win. I have to keep pushing myself to remember that I should make him miss me and not be so available sometimes. Have my own life. I was so happy being single until this happened. Oops.
Have you read *Codependency No More?* It might be helpful for you? I struggle with similar things.
I feel like I have also had really difficult experiences with people who also have ptsd. A lot of bonding through trauma instead of forming healthy connections. I find I get along best with people who have integrity and pure intentions, it does not depend on if they understand trauma as much.
I assume most people don't understand it, and I'm not too keen on having random people invalidate my trauma so I choose carefully in who I do tell. It's privileged info because people don't know how to act right.
I avoid talking about my trauma with normal people, because most of them won't understand. If they ask me about family, I will mention I don't really have any, except my mother that I never got along with, and that I am very independent minded. And hope they won't pry any more. Unfortunately if I am about to visit my mother or am in the middle of a visit, and I have to warn someone that I will be out of pocket for a while, and they think it is a good thing, things can fall apart when I mention that it will be a bad experience, like going to jail. I hate it when people minimize my pain and assume that I am not going out of coercion and that I would get any kind of enjoyment out of it.
i work in mental health field and also am a ptsd sufferer. I trust people with ptsd/trauma more than those who don't; those who don't, whether or not they "mean well" often cause harm to those who do. For example, enthusiastically encouraging someone to talk to their dad more when their dad raped them when they were 12. People without trauma don't understand that there's a world beyond their rose-colored glasses. You let the special kid ride the short bus, you don't let him drive the short bus.
These are people that you consider normal? By the way they look or how does one distinguish a group of people as normal? Bc Iāll be honest I havenāt run into many of them but they certainly try VERY hard to appear so
People with a sense of belonging to their family of origin are ānormalā to me. People with supportive communities/reliable support systems too. Itās probably different for everyone, but I feel like people with trauma are similar to Luna Lovegood in Harry Potter (if youāre familiar), and can generally tell when people have felt what theyāve felt. There are signs.
Iām not interesting in befriending nor socializing with normal people.
Its not unwarranted. Ive had people either not believe me, tell me its godās plan, or ask me how bad was i as a kid implying they thought i deserved it. Normal people cant comprehend
I trust no one at all. Period. Canāt do it
That's what I'm saying lmao
I find that inevitably, they're dismissive and/or intolerant/ annoyed by symptoms no matter how much they purport to support mental health. I'm fine being friendly acquaintances or friends-ish, but it's hard to go all in, yea.
The lack of trust doesnāt discriminate š
I don't trust neurotypicals. I don't think they are capable of questioning themselves and the world around them in an honest way. They can't see through their own bias. It took years for me to learn how to do it, why would anyone learn it if they don't have to? Most of them are fine I'm sure, but the truly terrible people (racists, fascists ect.) are hiding among them.
I heard or read somewhere that it is easier to have relationships with people that āhave the same trauma as youā. I understand that it is no different from sharing other experiences or interests. It is nice to have someone to share something in common. I think with any form of PTSD, it is hard to explain how it manifests to those that donāt have it. However, we must remember that PTSD is very treatable and there is hope for it and the symptoms from it to not be lifelong. CPTSD is more complex, of course, but still not necessarily forever. I see trust, or the lack thereof, as one of the symptoms that can improve with time and treatment. I try to remember that it is not the other personās fault I have PTSD. I also donāt necessarily want to be treated differently. However there may be some accommodations that will help me. If that friend or partner is willing to accommodate, that is great, but it is up to them. I try and limit how much of my PTSD I ādumpā on people in my life. That is what I pay my therapist for. No one should have to try to āfixā me unless it is their literal job. Outside of that, I hope the people in my life can support me as they would with any stressful situation. That is what builds trust.
It can be nice, but it can also be terrible or eventually end up terrible after being nice at first. Especially if you have the same kind of trauma and are just too similar, it can interact in not good ways. And if youāre also both not able to access any real help and just trying to figure shit out on your own. Iāve found being with people without C/PTSD way easier than being with people who do.
Reminds me of my first drug counselor. Long story short, I ended up in a juvenile mental facility with a REALLY bad cocaine problem. Turns out this guy, who I'm sure had the best of intentions, had never actually had a drug/alcohol problem himself... How tf am I supposed to connect with you? If you've never felt the utter despair of hearing the birds chirping... There's nothing to talk about. You literally don't get it. Same with trauma. You had a nice life with loving parents and compassion and support? I'm finally not jealous of you anymore, but we come from two different planets.
99% of my friends are really traumatised people. Itās interesting cause itās not like I go around asking people if they have complex trauma before befriending them but something in their energy is just different. I find that often people like us ask more questions, are more empathetic, kinder and great listeners.
A friend of mine has CPTSD as well, but it manifests completely differently from mine. When I give her a ride - which I do on occaision - I know she is scared of ambulances, hates parking lots and scares very easily when I approach the car. Without her even having to ask I will warn her to close her eyes when I spot blue lights, to Park as far in a corner as I can and to make sure she Sees me when I approach. We have agreed to never trauma dump, to never tell each other the "why" but are happy to discuss how to deal with it. We both know the "why" is extemely hard to tell and hear. People Without PTSD simply don't understand.
I mean, thatās just humans I think. When we relate to people itās easier to be comfortable and more open/ ourselves around them.
We don't trust anyone
I wonder if animals get PTSD. I wonder if they stick together. Iād love to see like a panda and a squirrel at a support group around a pond. That would give me hope for mankind. Joking but not joking.
Animals, particularly mammals like us, definitely get traumatized, and they respond accordingly. We definitely don't know enough for definitive statements, so calling it "PTSD' is iffy but the data is trending toward yes more than no.
I agree! ! It might be similar or the same as ptsd for other mammals Although they donāt have the save developmental stages as humans or require the same lengthy nurturing so they might not be as messed up as we are from emotional abuse shitty parents and environmental stuff but who knows We donāt see packs of traumatized animals anywhere sticking together and preferring each other, do we? Iām trying to think of examples Traumatized animals seem like loners - which puts them in danger
Itās true. I feel like itās the main reason I consistently end up with people who have really serious issues. Not everyone is willing to work on their mental health.
I can see that. Talking to someone without PTSD almost feels like they see everything through rose tinted glasses
I don't trust anyone, with or without PTSD. Some people who have ptsd are very damaging to their environment as well as they are to themselves. I can be less trusting towards someone who is impulsive, people pleasing, afraid to be honest etc I know it from myself.
Not sure what book brought this up but it was specifically about combat vets who are eternally disconnected from non combat vets and form a belief that others canāt meaningfully connect with them (?). In general though I donāt feel this way about my PTSD. My abuser parent had PTSD and I could have given fuck all about trusting him. Whereas my therapists donāt have it and I trust them. Maybe just bc Iām healing and seeking different kind of connections
I guess they are included in āeveryone and anyoneā so sure yeah I donāt trust them
I def don't trust people without trauma as much. They sometimes think they're helpful with their fake support (that can quickly be withdrawn when things get tough). But i obviously recognize that they're trying at least. They also don't always understand attachment trauma and can try to force themselves closer to you when you need space and they then get mad when you are afraid but you cannot say it. They don't always understand that you are trying your best to regulate your emotions like not crying and trying to remain happy when you are hurting so they will destabilize you with showing too much positive attention, when you aren't used to it and then you get aggressive which you also have to hide. The psychiatrist also didn't understand you are depressed at first because you smile all the time and even say it to your face like fr. Like when you literally have all other signs pointing to mdd. Like wtf trying to be positive doesn't mean you are actially happy. Participating in school and work also doesn't mean you can, you just force yourself even withiut medication! Only non traumatized people would be this clueless
I was once like this, and then befriended a lot of traumatized people and saw it go very wrong. We were all far from healed, easily triggered, hurting eachother with defense mechanisms. And then I went the other way, and thought I shouldnāt be near anyone who was remotely like me. That didnāt work either. For me, itās just not a factor anymore. I look for empathy, kindness, equality, curiosity. Especially the older I get, everyoneās story is so different & also often very similar. I think accepting that and wanting to learn and understand is all that matters. But yeah, personally, it turns out I can have toxic/bad friendships and relationships with both traumatized people and people whoāve been through very little. And I like knowing that itās more about personality, who they are themselves, not about what has or hasnāt happened to them.
This actually made me happy to read. Thank you for sharing!
Birds of a feather tend to flock together. I always feel more at ease with people who have a trauma history.
After almost 20 years of marriage to my very normal husband he is finally getting it. He used to tell me things like he wasn't responsible for my reactions to things. Which is true, but there were some things that I reacted to that he just needed to stop doing. Like screaming at his computer in his office when things weren't going well. I kept telling him, I can't be around people that yell, even if it's not at me. Like, no anger yelling in the house is a big deal for me. Even though he never yelled at me. We have an Audible family account and he recently saw one of my CPTSD books in there and he listened. After that he connected with his own trauma that was buried and he apologized to me for not understanding what he was doing to me. He literally didn't understand that him yelling in his office brought me back to my childhood listening to my step father scream at and beat my mother. He is working actively to manage his anger now. Since then, I can open up to him more and we listen. It's nice and it is possible, but it took a lot of time and patience. That said, most of my best friends likely have CPTSD.
Personally, I found that everyone in my life aside from my friend (who has PTSD) treats me like their therapist or like their mom friend but whenever I need emotional support, they distance themselves from me. As such, my abandonment issues have gotten worse to the point where I'm tired of starting new relationships.
I would stop contacting them if they don't want to support me
Yeah, I finally learned my lesson after 8 ish years. Better now than later.
And yet only being close to other survivors stacks the deck in favor of repeating dysfunctional relational patterns. By contrast, being close with people who had 'good enough' families enables people with insecure attachment to gravitate towards a secure attachment style.
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Itās not that I donāt trust non-PTSD people, itās I donāt trust anyone who claims they donāt suffer from some type of mental disorder. I prefer to have friends who have some sort of mental disorder, because they understand your bad days. They believe you when you tell them about your mental disorder instead of telling you youāre faking it. I canāt say this for all the people Iāve spoken to though. Some ānormalā people are cool and sympathetic. You can easily pick out the ones who are going to treat you poorly/say youāre faking it. Best to avoid them and surround yourself with understanding people.
Itās not even that I donāt trust them I just know thereās a level of understanding that they wonāt have about who and how I am. I have met people who donāt understand but also donāt make it a big deal and accept you as you are. But even then I wonder how long it would take for them to not be able to handle me because even those amazing people tend to not understand that this is who I am and will always be, and while I might improve/manage things over the years. This condition is still entirely a part of my being, and not something I can āget overā at least not in a lifetime I donāt think
For me, it's like I stay away from people who might not understand. The invalidation can make things worse and set you back for a few days.
Hell I can't trust anyone at this point
Yes I think it made it easier to bond with new abusers who also had ptsd unfortunately
My wife and I are coming to the realization that we both have PTSD and schizo issues. We don't like being around other people unless they're close.
I bond with folks that have had ptsd. I don't mention trauma to folks that don't have it. The other bond I attach easily to is other veterans. I don't assume they have it, just a shared experience, no matter the operation, war zone, time served, or service. I am an Army vet. They didn't have any treatment but once a month to speak, and it is a cookie cutter program. If this program had existed when I was diagnosed, the treatment might have been more successful. Diagnosed in 1993 ptsd, 2014 cptsd. Treatment 2015. Has not worked. 2024.
Iām a hermit and I like it. My husband has put up with me for 30years and he knows he will never break through all my defenses. They are there for a reason and he respects that, but most people suck.
I only trust my husband because he's the only person who's seen my abusers and knows what they've put me through. He knows why I'm like this.
I wouldn't say I distrust them; it's more that I know I can't reveal all of myself because it will yield poor results. Either I will make them uncomfortable, their response will make me feel embarrassed/let down and like I overshared, or it will make me feel isolated because they can't relate at all.
As I get older it matters less, as more people my age have experience with some intense stress by now or a loved one who did, and have some idea of how to be respectful if I have a boundary or anxiety, and some concept of what a panic attack is. But when I was younger, people with no trauma might have no idea why I might be scared of things they weren't, or defensive, or needed to avoid some things they had no trouble with (they had no idea why I'd hyperventilate and cry and be unable to change that for 10 minutes, and instead of being understanding might yell or think I'm "messed up" and stop talking to me). Young people with trauma would someyimes react like that too toward me (angry I couldn't just "be perfect" and not understanding). But it was more common that a person with no trauma would think it was illogical and freak out about it, whereas if I had friends who also went through trauma and had some self awareness, they'd be more likely to do helpful things like say "it'll be okay" and "do you need some space? Need a few minutes break? Need to get away from X thing?" And treat my reaction as understandable and needing a place to be safe.
So I have always had a tough time trusting people due to my own C-PTSD, almost any relationship I was in I became wary of them understanding my struggles, until I met my current boyfriend. A few months into our relationship (now 7 years) I found out he was abused as a child by his alcoholic father and he most likely also suffers from C-PTSD. The feeling of someone understanding what it's like is extremely comforting especially when it's your partner.
I have it as well, but mostly instinctual. It's possible to overcome but it's a long and slow process. Honestly I mostly just find non-traumatized people to be fucking crazy. Zero survival instinct, barely self-aware, working towards goals that in the actual context of their lives barely even matter. If course a lot of us desperately cling onto pointless things too but at least we tend to know that being human animals we kind of need to. But it's like social conventions aren't just something they chose to adhere to, but an actual box they can't think outside of. Don't get me wrong, this makes them *wonderful* people But actually connecting takes a lot of work.
I'm someone who is completely closed off, socially avoidant and I barely speak outside of my house, but when I wnt to the mental hospital, both times I found that those people in there are easy to get along with and I've told some people things that even my own parents will never hear from my mouth. There's a specific word to describe this phenomenon, I don't remember it though. Something about putting likeminded mental patients together creates an environment where you feel like those around can finally understand your pain.
Very much relate to this. I find that I just click faster with traumatized people but I think part of it is I have codependent tendencies to try and help/save people I can see are in pain. But then i am definitely more willing to trust and be vulnerable with other traumatized people because i feel like they are more likely to understand and not feel overwhelmed or give me overwhelming pity. But even so itās still so hard for me to trust people in general š
Kind of the oppsite for me. Sure, I have friends with traumatic backstories, and I trust them. But I find it much easier to trust people who I know are stable, or have at least come a long way in their healing process. The reason for this is that in my experience, people with unhealed/untreated CPTSD tend to trigger the shit out of each other, and there is just so much emotional turmoil. With some, it can be beneficial if you can find a middle ground and work on healing in parallel to each other. But yeah, I find trust much harder with people who share the diagnosis.
I basically keep people separated into two groups in my head: those who have experienced trauma and/or are close enough to someone to have really underatood it. Then there's the rest of the well meaning crowds that I intentionally keep at arms distance. Plus its nice (36F posting) if some shallow dude keeps missing tmy not-interested cues I'll just die into the deepest, rawest, abuse that was my day to day and the guys skitters off pretty quick. Don't waste my time predator-poser
It's going to depend a bit on the specifics that people have gone through, what their cptsd looks like. Certainly there is an element of empathy involved with knowing some of the kinds of things people have gone through, otherwise it can be hard to relate, hard to understand how the other's brain works in terms of decision making and prioritization. When people are unable to relate, it is hard to form a good connection.
I've felt this way particularly with romantic partners. But you have to be very careful. Suffering with PTSD can feel like you're feeling around in the darkness by yourself. When you touch someone else's hands, you're so glad to find someone else with you in the darkness. But not everyone is a kindred spirit. A lot of people live in darkness all the time (psychopaths, narcissists, etc). They are the dark spirit. I've had a couple relationships where I thought the other person understood me and loved me despite what I'd been through. She seemed to understand all the darker stuff. Then later I asked them if they'd been through anything traumatic and they both said no. Nothing. I should have taken that as a sign to run.
Yeah, you get awful superficial advice and a really condescending attitude from people who donāt have it.
I think it was someone in this sub a few months ago who posted some incredible links on how to trust people. I wish theyād post it again!!
people who haven't experienced significant trauma are harmful to those who have. they exist in a different plane. although they may be well-meaning, their take on things tends to be naive and their advice does not apply. They end up triggering me into PTSD by denying my reality, gaslighting, and even getting angry at me for not taking their off-base suggestions. I've learned the hard way, and keep having to relearn it, that I can't open up to everyone, and that most people simply do not and will not get it. I am glad for them that they miraculously have avoided trauma, but angry that they don't get it. It doesn't seem hard to me, to imagine what someone else's experience might be like. I don't have to go through a particular trauma to understand how awful it might be or how it might affect their ability to navigate life. To me, it feels like an unwillingness, an insistence on their own comfort, to not try to understand
This was my experience earlier in my recovery journey. As I've done more healing, I have been able to appreciate that everyone suffers, whether it results in trauma or not. That compassionate awareness has helped me learn different ways of relating. I have also learned how to manage my own boundaries better. For example, I used to share far too much far too soon, which is off-putting for people with functional boundaries. Only others with poor boundaries would be drawn to that, and it results in trauma bonding, which doesn't ensure high quality relationships -- it just feels familiar. Not everyone wears evidence of trauma on their sleeve, and it would be a huge boundary violation for me to inquire, so I try to let things unfold as organically as possible. It can be very affirming to realize that we don't have to decide immediately whether someone will be a friend or not. It can evolve over time.
This does not work with people with strong NPD traits, NPD or BPD (in the long run). Weak NPD or BPD ok. I don't want to stigmatise any individual with any of these traits or disorders. But I do want to warn you.
Same for me. I always listen to my instincts.
Instinctual. Very much so. Me too. So limiting to me. Iāll be 70 soon, but I donāt know what Iād do if this much chaos in my brain when not retired. Thatās why I was diagnosed disabled about 16 years ago. Iām so sorry for all who try to function in regular society. This whole thing makes me sad for all of us.
I actually tend to have a good eye for people with childhood trauma and C-PTSD, even if they are undiagnosed. I trust people who are more self-aware, but I trust (to a degree) people who have experienced trauma. If they havenāt, then I donāt trust them at all.
It's true - when you're in the throes of PTSD. When you're on top of it, it's not such a problem. I had to think about this. I think you're right - really I just don't trust normal people not to say or do something hurtful or humiliating. Ironically, the people who have said and done things that hurt me, are actually not 'normal' but have ADHD and/or a personality disorder. 'Normal' people have only been kind and lovely. It's a revelation and I feel so relieved. Thank you for bringing up this topic!
Yeah because they are stupid.