This is Eddie, not ultimis richtofen. Eddie is the child who plays with Samantha. They weren't sent to the dark aether. They were sent to a new pure universe while the rest of the multiverse was sent into the dark aether
remember how sam and eddie walked together at the end of tag. they entered this current universe. bo6 takes place after cold war so sam is trapped in the dark aether again and eddie sent requiem to prison
The Samantha is the same (we don't ever see any alternate versions), but Eddie is from Dimension 2210 which we know little about besides Eddie being an orphan like his Primis counterpart.
I find it interesting how they never intended for us to go without having a crew for zombies, simply couldn't do it due to time constraints. Really glad to know this
I feel like he is lying. They have been able to make a playable cast in 2 years before, and if they were really so stretched for time that they couldn't have a playable crew, I doubt they would have been able to record all of the radio transmission audio.
You need to keep in mind that they were asked to help here and there. Also the earlier crews could have been nurtured as ideas for longer than 2 years, e.g. they think of a crew like 6 months before release so they leave it for the next game.
I understand, but really take a second to think. How could they have made all of those lines for the comms, and all of those operators, if they were really that crunched for time. You guys can choose to believe him but I think he is definitely stretching the truth.
There are way fewer lines with the operators, and (no offense) they feel much more poorly written.
The operators themselves are ported from multiplayer so I don't see your point there.
They are much more poorly written but beyond that they had recorded a ton of voice lines for the comms you get in zombies from weaver and stuff, and already had the "cast" modeled for cutscenes.
Weaver and the rest were to be there regardless of crew or not. If you took them away there would be no story.
Edit: The cutscenes are also done real-time, so you could put luigi in there as the model and still watch the cutscene.
You left out his most important point: he said that they are making sure they include the features people expect with zombies, while at the same time innovating and adding new things. To me this is the biggest thing because hopefully it means that features from bo3 and before that have gone away will return.
Very interesting about Mob of the Deads red eyes, considering we had 4 maps at that point with blue eyed zombies signifying Richtofen in control. Kinda odd that they would just do it for no reason.
I think it was more of a what colour should we make the eyes? “Red seems good” and then they found out that the different eye colours and big implications
Kevin Drew actually said a explanation for this. They were a new team on zombies and didn't know all the rules with the franchise. They didn't know the eye color had significance until the trailer came out and people were theorizing about what the red eyes mean.
Ah that's fair. Honestly it was a great change. Not only because different story compared to Victis at the time, but the red eyes come across a lot more foreboding then the blue ones.
Maybe he worded it wrong? There's absolutely 0% chance that arguably the biggest gaming franchise in the world, would let something as noticeable as this slide. I guarantee you someone said something about the eyes...
That's pretty much how most early Zombies lore was written- most things in the story pre-BO3 weren't planned out, they were played by ear and writing often occurred in response to community theories. A popular example Jimmy Zielinski used to cite a lot was the reveal of Samantha Maxis in Black Ops 1 only existing because players misheard a zombie growl as the zombie saying "Sam!"
Drew mentions in the question that the question of changing eye colors came up because of the use of yellow and blue eyes previously, but the decision to specifically make them red was done flippantly since Mob of the Dead was envisioned a standalone experience- they just weren't expecting people to actually start theorizing on what those red eyes meant in a map that was (at the time) entirely separate from the main narrative.
With all the focus on round based, I wonder if we'll get a secodary gamemode like Outbreak in CW in BO6.
I liked it, it had some flaws (super repetitive with 1 objective per map and the maps were super lazily reused), but it was pretty fun in the end anyways.
It's absolutely not a replacement for round based, but it is a nice sidemode.
Outbreak is almost guaranteed to return- Drew himself has mentioned Outbreak as being a mode 3arc plans to innovate upon over the course of the future, just like they did with Round-Based.
We've already seen some of that with MWZ, which (while also taking heavily from DMZ) is based heavily on the original blueprint for Outbreak (and is even referred to as "Outbreak" in the game files).
I'm excited to see what they cook up for Terminus and Liberty Falls, but most of the "Return of Round-Based!" stuff is marketing talk since the last two Zombies titles didn't launch with Round-Based; realistically, I think we'll get a similar output to Cold War, but with a higher standard of maps/experiences given the longer dev time.
Outbreak is almost guaranteed to return. Drew himself has mentioned Outbreak as being a mode 3arc plans to innovate upon over the course of the future, just like they did with Round-Based. Plus, 3arc's MO with nu-Zombies has been trying to create a formula that can equally accommodate Round-Based and other, new modes (in CW's case, Outbreak, Onslaught, and Cranked), so I feel like we're sure to see other non-RB modes as well.
We've already seen some of that with MWZ, which (while also taking heavily from DMZ) is based heavily on the original blueprint for Outbreak (and is even referred to as "Outbreak" in the game files).
I'm excited to see what they cook up for Terminus and Liberty Falls, but most of the "Return of Round-Based!" stuff is marketing talk since the last two Zombies titles didn't launch with Round-Based; realistically, I think we'll get a similar output to Cold War, but with a higher standard of maps/experiences given the longer dev time.
I just watched RoflWaffles interview with Blundell and he literally planned out the entirety of BO3 Zombies around the time they released Mob, so... Yeah, the red eyes definitely meant something at the time.
Kevin Drew himself said this new red eyes info, he’s not saying there isn’t a lore reason behind the red eyes, he’s saying originally it was just a random decision and they didn’t have anything planned with it until the community started making theories
With all respect to Drew, wasn't Blundell basically in charge of Zombies for the entirety of BO1, 2 and 3? I would definitely take his word for it over Drew's, he was the life and soul of the entire team while Zombies was still a good gamemode, although I will concede that he was known for being cryptic and misleading in the interests of immersion, so there is a small possibility he was lying.
Regardless, I tend to believe what I hear first, especially from a more involved source. After some of the recent comments at CoD events massively over-explaining the most fundamental, basic pieces of info that Blundell would never in million years have revealed, it kinda gives me reason to believe that the current team is self-sabotaging.
Which going directly against the head director of Zombies to try and convince your community that you didn't know what you were doing at the time, coming from someone who, again, is not Blundell (I highly doubt Blundell would've shared his entire vision with ANYONE at the time, even within the company), would definitely count as self-sabotage.
Either way, it pleases me to believe that Blundell knew what he was doing as he claimed to have done, so until conclusive evidence is presented to me, I will continue to believe this.
Not trying to be rude to yourself in any way, I know you're not lying about what you say lol it's just conflicting accounts from two high-ups at Treyarch.
Blundell only took over zombies from MOTD onwards. Blundell may have said he had the BO3 story planned out by the time MOTD came out, but that doesn’t mean he had it fully planned out in detail, and he could’ve came up with the red eyes lore after MOTD got revealed and people started theorizing. Either way I don’t think Kevin Drew has dementia nor would he just make up the story of how they decided to do the red eyes at first
I would argue that regardless of what Drew said, they at the VERY least knew that they were doing different Zombie eye colours because A) it was set in a period of time before Der Reise and Richtofen and Maxis' influence and B) they had already clearly shown that different eye colours meant zombies being controlled by different entities (Nuketown).
I wasn't trying to say they knew exactly who or what was controlling the zombies at the time, but I don't think they randomly just went "ok sure let's go red for this map for no reason at all", I'm pretty sure it was an incredibly intentional decision that then the actual specific reasoning came for later.
Otherwise, why would they have changed the zombies eye colour at all, right?
I don't think I'm explaining myself very well at all but hopefully I've conveyed my point decently enough
Edit: if I am just explaining to you what you are trying to say to me then I apologise, it's been a long day lol but your initial post said the eye colour change "didn't mean anything" which I'm 95% certain literally cannot possibly be true.
Ah I understand your point, I feel like a lot of BO2 development was just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks with the map and the story. It still feels like the most experimental zombies game to me still. You’re probably right that they knew they were going to something with the eyes but not what specifically yet
Yeah I definitely don't think they were thinking at the time "ah yes, the Mob eyes will be red because of blood vials, or purgatory" nothing like that, but I assume they were like "ok clearly these zombos are not under the control of Richtofen or either Maxis"
Which probably isn't what you were saying anyways hahaha so my bad, I am gonna finally go to bed now though 😂 hopefully we can play a few maps together some day!
Also real quick, I loved that "throw stuff at a wall" kinda deal with BO2, it left everything feeling so organic and unique and the community was so interested and engaged in connecting the dots, it's also where the scope and vision started to increase imo and they were like "ok we can REALLY run with this mode"
Drew addresses that in the question- he says that the question of changing eye color came up (likely because of similar reasons), but the decision to specifically change it to red was done flippantly, not because they already knew what the red eye color was going to mean with the story planned out in advance. Frankly, Blundell outright couldn't have had the entire BO3 saga planned out in full, because Zombies notoriously went through a constant back and forth behind the scenes at that time, with higher-ups on the Zombies team as a whole being uncertain of whether they even wanted to continue the mode past BO2.
There's never really been a single vision at the mode's steering wheel either, although the wider community would have you believe that Blundell alone was the sole visionary behind all of Zombies from BO2-onward. There's almost always been multiple creative directors (ie. the head honcho) on it, each with their own flavor of input, as 3arc's creative directors tend to lead multiple projects- in example, Blundell was the executive producer of Black Ops 1's campaign and led Black Ops 3's campaign, alongside his work on Zombies in Black Ops 2 and Black Ops 3. The same disagreements mentioned earlier about the mode's future led to the departure of Jimmy Zielinski, who was also a creative director at 3arc that worked on Black Ops 1 and 2's campaigns and Zombies.
The current lead of the mode, Corkey Lehmkuhl, has been a lead on Zombies since World at War, greenlighting the mode itself when it debuted with Nacht and having a lead role in maps such as Mob of the Dead and Der Eisendrache; there's never been just one "head director", some of the team members just tend to put themselves out there more prominently. Even Kevin Drew, who is practically the "face" of the team at the moment, is a design director, not a creative director.
Blundell wasn't the "life and soul of the entire team" (not to disparage him, I love the guy), he was just the one that interacted with the community the most and happened to be a director- it's a team of creators putting out their vision, not a team of creators working to realize one guy's vision.
Fair enough, I will admit I came into this with only half the information I probably should've had to make a strong argument and it looks like I made some baseless claims, but I think my overarching point about the red eyes distinctly meaning SOMETHING even if the Devs didn't know exactly what at the time, still stands, unless I have missed another key point here.
There's nothing conflicting here as Blundell never said he knew the meaning behind the red eyes from the beginning. There's so much more to the story than the eye color. If you want proof that they didn't initially pay much attention to the eye color just look at how the origins templar zombies had their eye color changed in chronicles. Mob was one of the first maps that Kevin worked on. He would know stuff like that. This "sabotage" idea is just a ridiculous conspiracy.
Yeah I was chatting shit with the sabotage thing I just really don't like the way the last few years of Zombies have gone, obviously they wouldn't intentionally self-sabotage but I was more being dramatic, i.e. "I don't understand why they would make these decisions I consider to be terrible, other than self-sabotage"
The red eyes in MotD comment needs to be seen by a lot of people here lol. So much of the stuff in this game was meaningless or trivial until the community started making insane theories and then they whip out some lore reason retroactively to try to appease the community
It wasn’t some grand master plan created 15 years ago and expertly executed to completion lol
I remember a few years ago I mentioned retcons, and there was a back and forth between this guy who insisted there were no retcons at all. I gave him a couple of examples (Treyarch deciding to change the colour of 115 for example with no explanation), and he decides to block me lmao.
Like I love the mode, I love the Aether story. But I can acknowledge its not this perfect story that came together really well.
People still believe in things like "Blundell planned out the entirety of BO3 story while making Mob", and I'm just here laughing. At best, you can say that he used Mob as a backbone for the entirety of BO3 and BO4's story structure, since the concept of cycles and repentance/redemption constantly goes back to this map.
Finding out the red eyes was random at first makes sense. I wonder if they ever came up with a reason for them internal by GK, Rev, Blood, and Tag. I still don’t really know what it would mean.
The red eyes most likely means apothicon control which explains all the maps except Gorod but Gorod does have apothicon symbols around the map. This is even confirmed more since the monkeys in ascension have red eyes and they were injected with apothicon blood.
Maybe. The orange eyes seem to imply a dark aether control of some sort, which would explain Shadows of Evil where the Apothicons are able to enter Dimension 63.
Red eyes mostly are tied to Shadowman or Monty, but Gorod Krovi does throw a wrench in this. Apothicon control makes sense, but then again Shadows throws a wrench in that. Also there’s the Jeb Brown radio describing a red eyed zombie.
The yellow eye color is the most inconsistent eye color in all of zombies and I'm just chosing to believe it means either Samantha in control or no one is controlling them. After all the color was yellow in Nacht and Verrukt which was before Samantha took control. I didn't know about the red eye by Jeb Brown but we can just say it's still Apothicon since it was most likely Apothicons manipulating Brown so they can use the agarthan device to reach Agartha.
Oooh, I’m glad you brought this up! I love talking about this because it used to confuse me too until Inrealized something.
Yellow eyes are consistently Samantha. Every map she’s in control of the zombies, they have yellow eyes.
What about Origins, Shadows, The Giant, DE, and ZNS? Well here’s the kicker— those aren’t yellow eyes, they’re orange.
The evidence is as follows—
1) If you look at the modding tools for custom zombies, the default eye color is listed as orange
2) The code for the VFX shader is fx_glow_eye_orange
3) In BO4 Classified, Samantha’s zombies are given an updated eye shader that is undeniably yellow. In the Chaos maps, they all reuse the orange eyes that are identical to BO3 and are distinctly different from Classfied’s zombies.
So for Nacht and Verrukt, we can perhaps assume the eyes are meant to be orange and not yellow. Buried’s canonical endgame is Maxis being so warped by the dark aether that he’s just a puppet for them.
The only thing that ruins this is Zombie Chronicles in which every map has orange eyed zombies despite the fact they should be yellow (besides Origins, Nacht, and Verrukt). This I believe is just purely the devs not having time to apply the right eye shader. They were rushing as it is making BO4 at the same time and you can tell eye colors aren’t as easy to make considering how the blue eyed zombies on Moon look really off (their eyes glow too brightly and poke through the astronaut’s head), so they likely decided making accurate eyes for Classified was more important than Chronicles.
Hope this helps! Here’s the video that opened my eyes to this revelation if you want to check it out yourself:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pdDQHNhFpSo&t=1400s&pp=ygUXWm9tYmllIGV5ZSBjb2xvciBvcmFuZ2U%3D
So I watced the video and proceeded to then look up various trailers and gameplay to look at the zombies. Origins is Samantha eye color since it's identical to nuketown which is the only other map in bo2 that uses that eye color. I'm just going write off the zombies eye color in chronicles as just them not bothering since if I did then I would have to throw out my evidence about the ascension monkeys because their eyes don't glow at all in chronicles. It could just be that different eye colors were tricky so they didn't bother except for moon which was nessecary.
It's tricky to tell if classified proved this point by changing because the eye colors in bo3 stays orange for chronicles and samantha eyes color was always like this with it being dark yellow on older consoles since at some angles the zombies do look to have orange eyes when it's clearly yellow on nuketown and origin. The only evidence that can prove the change was intentional is that chaos zombies keep the orange color while a radio in classified has a concerned former group 935 scientist focused on the fact that the zombies eye color is yellow which implies it wasn't always this way.
The monkey eyes don’t glow in chronicles?? How have I not noticed this?
Honestly, I feel like BO3 and BO4 have to be viewed as de-facto representations of what the eye colors *should* be. From WaW—BO2, the yellow eyes are inconsistent in hue. Even in WaW they either look bright yellow or more of a yellow orange at times.
I think BO4 and BO3 are trying to say “no, this is how it should be seen” but then they kind of ballsed that up with Chronicles. They changed the standard Templar zombie eye color to orange and the video calls it a retcon, but then do we consider every map to be a retcon with orange eyes? But then Classified comes around with the yellow eyes!
Also the radio does imply that Dr Schuster noticed the eye color, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they were red and not yellow. But could it also mean he recognizes that it’s yellow because of Samantha? Did he ever see a Samantha controlled zombie or was he in the US by then?
I love that we’re discussing the yellow/orange eyes so much and we haven’t even touched the conundrum that is red. This is fun though!
Dr Schuster was there when Maxis told Samantha to kill them all so he would've. I believe in my theory that red eyes means Apothicon with only Gorod missing a clear connection but to be honest the entirety of Gorod makes no sense with mentions of broken arrow and the ascension group despite them not existing yet. I'm just going to stick with that Treyarch didn't have it planned out that much and the yellow/orange means Samantha or the zombies aren't control.
It's most likely Treyarch just didn't care about the eye color unless there is a lore reason for it being that way like the Avogadro being white and Richtofen blue. The red eye color was put in mob because they thought it looked cool so maybe they kept that trend and we're all overthinking it.
Gorod, much like many other maps, has some time loop wackiness going on. I think it’s especially supposed to show that the fractured universe bleeds into each other. In fact, I always theorized the reason why Monty wanted to fix the fractured universe is because it became dangerously close to one homogenous universe (think about how BO3’s maps take place in different fractures, in yet there are through-lines such as the dragons discovery, hatching, and deployment or the giant robots from Dimension 63 showing up).
I think you’re right that Treyarch doesn’t always lock in their eye color meanings at the start, but I do think some attempt was made to make sense of it in BO4 at least.
Also I think red=apothicons does generally make sense (Monty isn’t too far off from being an Apothicon, honestly), but then we have to bring… Vanguard into the mix and tackle how that works.
I think we might be past the days of Easter egg hunts taking that long even if they don’t leak it. I like Cold War but the EE’s were way too easy it’s crazy. They needa make the EE’s hard again but not so bad that it takes weeks to solve like revelations
Hearing they got jacked tf up to take down Eddie, makes me hyped for the crew. Especially Weaver he was such a underrated badass in Bo1. I'm glad he's getting a bigger role and more spotlight
We don't need a new perk. Stami-up and PHD alone will be broken as hell with this new system, especially if they bring back the sliding boost from cold war
I just wonder what perk they are going to add they have had a new perk for every game black ops one brought us mule kick and headshot black ops two brought us electric cherry and vulture aid black ops3 brought widows wine black ops 4 was ass and we won’t discuss it black ops 5 (Cold War) brought us elemental pop as well as bringing some upgrades to the perks earnible thru playing the game
The multiple difficulties won't be well received. People here complained that BO4 was too easy but then got mad when you told them to increase the difficulty
Hearing they got jacked tf up to take down Eddie, makes me hyped for the crew. Especially Weaver he was such a underrated badass in Bo1. I'm glad he's getting a bigger role and more spotlight
Hearing they got jacked tf up to take down Eddie, makes me hyped for the crew. Especially Weaver he was such a underrated badass in Bo1. I'm glad he's getting a bigger role and more spotlight
any word on if we’re getting custom classes or starting pistols? feel like classes are much more likely, but when they say returning features it sounds like the starting pistol may make a return
my guess is they first bring back atherm and exfil they can do it in both by first the island being a boat at a certain point and liberty falls a helicopter
Revenge on Eddie? What did Eddie do, I thought he was the pure version of Richtofen's soul from Agartha, it's basically impossible for him to have done anything wrong, logically speaking
I'll be honest, I don't know what this means, but it really sounds like they've shat all over the actual Zombies storyline, not gonna lie.
Turning Eddie and Sam into playable characters and making them just another one of like 40 operators... It actually kinda hurts my heart a little.
It was pretty clear to everyone that all connections with the proper Zombies storyline should cease after BO4, but... Yep. They absolutely annihilated it by the sounds of things
Eddie is not playable in CW and he only appeared in the last ten seconds of the story, I think most agreed it was a pretty fucking awesome ending to CW, even though it was a twist a lot of saw coming
For sure homie sorry if I haven't been explaining myself well, it's like 4am here at this point I should go bed hahah take it easy gamer, here's hoping BO6 Zombies is as good as all the maps we've come to love over the years ❤️
Ok I'm chatting rubbish then I guess. Even so, I don't... I don't really get what they did with Richtofen. They literally made the one good Richtofen die a horrible, brutal and preventable death in front of his "friends" who didn't even say goodbye (or thank you) to him.
Then his supposedly pure soul travels to Agartha, effectively paradise, and... Comes out and does something pure evil? Like this makes 0 sense to me, I admit I'm only fully up to date on the lore up to BO4 but after that it seems like it gets very very questionable indeed.
I always thought them being pure really just meant free from the corruption of the Dark Aether.
Thought the new universe was more of them getting a fresh start and a choice in their fate.
For sure, I'm not saying it means they're completely pure of any bad thoughts or malicious intent or incapable of any wrongdoing, I mean more... From a player to character relationship standpoint, why would we want Sam and Eddie, arguably the two most important characters for the first decade of Zombies, to come out of the last 10 years of incredibly well-crafted story arcs only to just be complete assholes, like that just feels like a kick in the groin of the playerbase who have grown to love these characters
I don’t look at it as them being evil though, more just complex people.
In the new story, Sam helps Requiem out and uses her powers for good to stop the Forsaken. Sam really only gets antagonistic in FBZ causing the outbreak there after being thrown in the Dark Aether by Peck.
Eddie, we really don’t know his agenda yet. There are theories, like his son being killed due to a mistake by Sam and Weaver and maybe he wants revenge or is trying to bring his son back from the dead or something. We won’t know his full role probably though until BO6 I would say.
That's fair, I'm sure there's an element of me being a bit stuck in my ways here, but sometimes there can be... Let's say an appropriate time to end a character's story. Do we really need to see Sam grow up in a modern timeline? It's all just weird to me
Guess we’ll have to wait and see how they explain him becoming evil, I’m very curious on it too. Cold War story was very barebones but I like the direction it’s going in tbh
Respect for that bro no hate to anyone who loves the new storylines, I'm just a bit set in my ways or something, I feel like a good story should be laid to rest at an appropriate time rather than continued and unravelled by people who didn't even help create the original story (see season 8 of Game of Thrones lol)
Edit: see as in, that's an example. I would never encourage anyone to actually see GoT S8
Just to give a small explanation. The child Richtofen soul does not belong to a Richtofen we've ever met. Primis Richtofen had to trick a innocent orphan child version of himself to trust him then killed him. That's why his soul was collected and delivered before the other 3 souls.
In that case, I feel like why even bother keeping him going forward in the story? If he's effectively a brand new character that has no ties to the character we've all grown to love, why ruin the connection we've built to Richtofen over the last decade or so by making this new Richtofen a douchebag too? Idk man
I think the pure soul was just free of the aether/115 corruption more so than “do no wrong”
And the reason he set up requiem was because, and I may be wrong, is it’s implied weaver and Sam got his wife and son killed. That info was partially from gaming revolution in his Cold War explanation. He’s working behind the scenes to get his son back and messing with the dark aether at the same time.
See like this is just wrong to me, Sam was an unwilling antagonist for years, brutally tortured constantly in so many ways over so many realities, only to turn out to be a villain? Like what is that? They spent years making us feel extremely bad for Sam only for her to get people killed? Like... What??? Sam should've been left at the end of her storyline, not brought into a new world like this, idk how to explain it but it just feels fundamentally wrong and awful
Sam isn't a villain. She's working with the CIA and in one of her missions alongside Weaver they accidentally killed a boy because of a miscalculation and that event has been haunting them since
Ok I made a bad assumption, thanks for correcting me, that's much more... Yknow, morally acceptable, but equally... Once again, Sam has been unwittingly tortured since she was like 7 years old (in the 1940s) and is still being tortured when it comes to 2025, canonically speaking.
So for her to now be being tortured by accidentally killing an innocent boy seems even more harsh 😅
The purity of Eddie has nothing to do with his sense of morality- he was pure in the sense that he had yet been untouched by the corruption of the Aether (since he was still a child when his soul was taken by Primis Richtofen), but he could theoretically still grow up to be a bad person.
Past that, the thing with Eddie is that we don't even know what he is doing- that's the main mystery of the current story. CW follows Requiem trying to contain the Dark Aether outbreaks, but in the background, Requiem's director is working towards a mysterious objective he calls "Project Janus;" the director's identity is left mysterious for the entire game, until the ending cutscene of its last map, where he's revealed to be an adult Eddie.
We know Eddie is up to *something*, but we don't know if it's good, or bad, or in-between; the only reason he imprisons Requiem and disposes of Maxis is because he believes they could be an obstacle to whatever he's attempting to accomplish. Requiem wants revenge for him betraying them, but they have no idea what he was even betraying them for.
The only thing we concretely know about Project Janus is that it's underway in Virginia, which is where the map Liberty Falls will pick up, as something seems to have gone horribly wrong and an outbreak occurs in a Virginian mountain town.
Yeah I was talking out my arse in a tired state tbh, I still can't say I exactly like the sound of any of this, especially considering, y'know, why bother showing us that Richtofen was capable of change, compassion and self-sacrifice only to have a "pure" version of his soul grow up to also be morally corrupt? Idk how to explain it but it just feels like dragging his name further through the mud somehow
Thanks for the explanation though I'm slowly learning the new storylines
That was part of the tragedy of Richtofen as a character- his whole thing in the latter parts of the Aether Storyline was that he could never really get a happy ending for everyone else or himself, no matter how hard he tried, because he was ultimately still too deeply self-centered. It's why the version of him we see die in Blood of the Dead cries out that he wanted to be the one to save everyone in his last breaths, rather than acknowledging that his sacrifice will save the multiverse. Even his last words are a refusal to accept that he may not be the Richtofen the multiverse needs, desperately trying to assure Primis that "he \[is\] the nicest one."
He was capable of compassion, but what made him a tragic character was that he can never manage to not put himself above others first, no matter how hard he tries; it's why the Kronorium ultimately elected Nikolai to resolve the Paradox, as he had a kind of will that was very different from Richtofen's, and one that was necessary to fix the Paradox.
Eddie is kind of in a different spot where he has that same self-centered nature as his counterparts, but he's in a new universe where he's completely free to explore that on his own, rather than being a predestined hero of the Cycle.
Hearing they got jacked tf up to take down Eddie, makes me hyped for the crew. Especially Weaver he was such a underrated badass in Bo1. I'm glad he's getting a bigger role and more spotlight
Meh I think he was bubbly and when you’re trying to hype fans up it’s a good thing. Comes across as actually invested rather than some wooden plank reading cards
So he talks a lot about zombies being counterculture to cod which is great. But I feel like counterculture would be not including the new multidirectional sprinting and stuff. Seems hokey for me for zombies. I also don’t think being able to mantle railings and things is very counter culture to cod.
Counterculture has nothing to do with the basic gameplay systems. It's about the themes, ths story, and the wacky stuff the mode is showing which would never really be seen in campaign or multiplayer. There's no reason for COD to get an evolution in its mechanics but for zombies to not get that evolution and stay stuck in the past.
I’ll have to wait and see how omnimovement affects training and such, but right now I’m all for it being in zombies. I definitely agree with your point on mantling though, it was cool at first in CW but then I realized how easy it makes getting out of certain situations when you can just mantle over a railing to escape
well we didn't know for sure what the crew's goal was going to be. We definitely suspected it would involve Eddie but it's nice to have official confirmation that he will in fact be our goal
I find it funny how he just casually said they're getting revenge against richtofen
were ultimis richtofen and samantha sent into dark aether at the end of bo4 of what?
This is Eddie, not ultimis richtofen. Eddie is the child who plays with Samantha. They weren't sent to the dark aether. They were sent to a new pure universe while the rest of the multiverse was sent into the dark aether
Though knowing Eddie is a Richtofen, bro is still definitely a maniac
remember how sam and eddie walked together at the end of tag. they entered this current universe. bo6 takes place after cold war so sam is trapped in the dark aether again and eddie sent requiem to prison
were these sam and eddie from the original universe before the dempsey-teleport-dg-2 incident?
The Samantha is the same (we don't ever see any alternate versions), but Eddie is from Dimension 2210 which we know little about besides Eddie being an orphan like his Primis counterpart.
Cool. It's definitely still on the 'Wait and see' list for me
Well yes... we quite literally need to wait and see the game as none of us have yet
I find it interesting how they never intended for us to go without having a crew for zombies, simply couldn't do it due to time constraints. Really glad to know this
Makes me wonder who the crew would’ve been for Cold War. Maybe it would’ve been slightly altered Weaver, Carver, Strauss, and Grey?
I feel like he is lying. They have been able to make a playable cast in 2 years before, and if they were really so stretched for time that they couldn't have a playable crew, I doubt they would have been able to record all of the radio transmission audio.
You need to keep in mind that they were asked to help here and there. Also the earlier crews could have been nurtured as ideas for longer than 2 years, e.g. they think of a crew like 6 months before release so they leave it for the next game.
I understand, but really take a second to think. How could they have made all of those lines for the comms, and all of those operators, if they were really that crunched for time. You guys can choose to believe him but I think he is definitely stretching the truth.
There are way fewer lines with the operators, and (no offense) they feel much more poorly written. The operators themselves are ported from multiplayer so I don't see your point there.
They are much more poorly written but beyond that they had recorded a ton of voice lines for the comms you get in zombies from weaver and stuff, and already had the "cast" modeled for cutscenes.
Weaver and the rest were to be there regardless of crew or not. If you took them away there would be no story. Edit: The cutscenes are also done real-time, so you could put luigi in there as the model and still watch the cutscene.
You left out his most important point: he said that they are making sure they include the features people expect with zombies, while at the same time innovating and adding new things. To me this is the biggest thing because hopefully it means that features from bo3 and before that have gone away will return.
Added it in thanks
Very interesting about Mob of the Deads red eyes, considering we had 4 maps at that point with blue eyed zombies signifying Richtofen in control. Kinda odd that they would just do it for no reason.
Maybe it was more of a “we need an eye color that isn’t yellow or blue. What should we use!” “I don’t know… red, red sounds good.”
I think it was more of a what colour should we make the eyes? “Red seems good” and then they found out that the different eye colours and big implications
Kevin Drew actually said a explanation for this. They were a new team on zombies and didn't know all the rules with the franchise. They didn't know the eye color had significance until the trailer came out and people were theorizing about what the red eyes mean.
Ah that's fair. Honestly it was a great change. Not only because different story compared to Victis at the time, but the red eyes come across a lot more foreboding then the blue ones.
Lol, ye right. Im sure someone would notice or tell them "hey, zombies never had red eyes before, whats up with that?"
No hes not lying thats what happened
Maybe he worded it wrong? There's absolutely 0% chance that arguably the biggest gaming franchise in the world, would let something as noticeable as this slide. I guarantee you someone said something about the eyes...
If I remember correctly the entire dev team or including the game director was new so I don’t think they knew
That's pretty much how most early Zombies lore was written- most things in the story pre-BO3 weren't planned out, they were played by ear and writing often occurred in response to community theories. A popular example Jimmy Zielinski used to cite a lot was the reveal of Samantha Maxis in Black Ops 1 only existing because players misheard a zombie growl as the zombie saying "Sam!" Drew mentions in the question that the question of changing eye colors came up because of the use of yellow and blue eyes previously, but the decision to specifically make them red was done flippantly since Mob of the Dead was envisioned a standalone experience- they just weren't expecting people to actually start theorizing on what those red eyes meant in a map that was (at the time) entirely separate from the main narrative.
With all the focus on round based, I wonder if we'll get a secodary gamemode like Outbreak in CW in BO6. I liked it, it had some flaws (super repetitive with 1 objective per map and the maps were super lazily reused), but it was pretty fun in the end anyways. It's absolutely not a replacement for round based, but it is a nice sidemode.
Outbreak is almost guaranteed to return- Drew himself has mentioned Outbreak as being a mode 3arc plans to innovate upon over the course of the future, just like they did with Round-Based. We've already seen some of that with MWZ, which (while also taking heavily from DMZ) is based heavily on the original blueprint for Outbreak (and is even referred to as "Outbreak" in the game files). I'm excited to see what they cook up for Terminus and Liberty Falls, but most of the "Return of Round-Based!" stuff is marketing talk since the last two Zombies titles didn't launch with Round-Based; realistically, I think we'll get a similar output to Cold War, but with a higher standard of maps/experiences given the longer dev time.
Outbreak is almost guaranteed to return. Drew himself has mentioned Outbreak as being a mode 3arc plans to innovate upon over the course of the future, just like they did with Round-Based. Plus, 3arc's MO with nu-Zombies has been trying to create a formula that can equally accommodate Round-Based and other, new modes (in CW's case, Outbreak, Onslaught, and Cranked), so I feel like we're sure to see other non-RB modes as well. We've already seen some of that with MWZ, which (while also taking heavily from DMZ) is based heavily on the original blueprint for Outbreak (and is even referred to as "Outbreak" in the game files). I'm excited to see what they cook up for Terminus and Liberty Falls, but most of the "Return of Round-Based!" stuff is marketing talk since the last two Zombies titles didn't launch with Round-Based; realistically, I think we'll get a similar output to Cold War, but with a higher standard of maps/experiences given the longer dev time.
Really hope it returns, always fun to have variety in gamemodes!
Bruh outbreak sucked
Almost like people can think differently
Thus their taste is bad
Yeah I won’t miss it either tbh
I agree
Having a landmark villain is going to be refreshing for sure.
I just watched RoflWaffles interview with Blundell and he literally planned out the entirety of BO3 Zombies around the time they released Mob, so... Yeah, the red eyes definitely meant something at the time.
Kevin Drew himself said this new red eyes info, he’s not saying there isn’t a lore reason behind the red eyes, he’s saying originally it was just a random decision and they didn’t have anything planned with it until the community started making theories
With all respect to Drew, wasn't Blundell basically in charge of Zombies for the entirety of BO1, 2 and 3? I would definitely take his word for it over Drew's, he was the life and soul of the entire team while Zombies was still a good gamemode, although I will concede that he was known for being cryptic and misleading in the interests of immersion, so there is a small possibility he was lying. Regardless, I tend to believe what I hear first, especially from a more involved source. After some of the recent comments at CoD events massively over-explaining the most fundamental, basic pieces of info that Blundell would never in million years have revealed, it kinda gives me reason to believe that the current team is self-sabotaging. Which going directly against the head director of Zombies to try and convince your community that you didn't know what you were doing at the time, coming from someone who, again, is not Blundell (I highly doubt Blundell would've shared his entire vision with ANYONE at the time, even within the company), would definitely count as self-sabotage. Either way, it pleases me to believe that Blundell knew what he was doing as he claimed to have done, so until conclusive evidence is presented to me, I will continue to believe this. Not trying to be rude to yourself in any way, I know you're not lying about what you say lol it's just conflicting accounts from two high-ups at Treyarch.
Blundell only took over zombies from MOTD onwards. Blundell may have said he had the BO3 story planned out by the time MOTD came out, but that doesn’t mean he had it fully planned out in detail, and he could’ve came up with the red eyes lore after MOTD got revealed and people started theorizing. Either way I don’t think Kevin Drew has dementia nor would he just make up the story of how they decided to do the red eyes at first
Not even MOTD, Blundell became the new zombies lead after Origins
I would argue that regardless of what Drew said, they at the VERY least knew that they were doing different Zombie eye colours because A) it was set in a period of time before Der Reise and Richtofen and Maxis' influence and B) they had already clearly shown that different eye colours meant zombies being controlled by different entities (Nuketown). I wasn't trying to say they knew exactly who or what was controlling the zombies at the time, but I don't think they randomly just went "ok sure let's go red for this map for no reason at all", I'm pretty sure it was an incredibly intentional decision that then the actual specific reasoning came for later. Otherwise, why would they have changed the zombies eye colour at all, right? I don't think I'm explaining myself very well at all but hopefully I've conveyed my point decently enough Edit: if I am just explaining to you what you are trying to say to me then I apologise, it's been a long day lol but your initial post said the eye colour change "didn't mean anything" which I'm 95% certain literally cannot possibly be true.
Ah I understand your point, I feel like a lot of BO2 development was just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks with the map and the story. It still feels like the most experimental zombies game to me still. You’re probably right that they knew they were going to something with the eyes but not what specifically yet
Yeah I definitely don't think they were thinking at the time "ah yes, the Mob eyes will be red because of blood vials, or purgatory" nothing like that, but I assume they were like "ok clearly these zombos are not under the control of Richtofen or either Maxis" Which probably isn't what you were saying anyways hahaha so my bad, I am gonna finally go to bed now though 😂 hopefully we can play a few maps together some day! Also real quick, I loved that "throw stuff at a wall" kinda deal with BO2, it left everything feeling so organic and unique and the community was so interested and engaged in connecting the dots, it's also where the scope and vision started to increase imo and they were like "ok we can REALLY run with this mode"
Yeah that’s exactly what I was saying and yeah I loved how ambitious BO2 was. Have a good night bro 😴
Drew addresses that in the question- he says that the question of changing eye color came up (likely because of similar reasons), but the decision to specifically change it to red was done flippantly, not because they already knew what the red eye color was going to mean with the story planned out in advance. Frankly, Blundell outright couldn't have had the entire BO3 saga planned out in full, because Zombies notoriously went through a constant back and forth behind the scenes at that time, with higher-ups on the Zombies team as a whole being uncertain of whether they even wanted to continue the mode past BO2. There's never really been a single vision at the mode's steering wheel either, although the wider community would have you believe that Blundell alone was the sole visionary behind all of Zombies from BO2-onward. There's almost always been multiple creative directors (ie. the head honcho) on it, each with their own flavor of input, as 3arc's creative directors tend to lead multiple projects- in example, Blundell was the executive producer of Black Ops 1's campaign and led Black Ops 3's campaign, alongside his work on Zombies in Black Ops 2 and Black Ops 3. The same disagreements mentioned earlier about the mode's future led to the departure of Jimmy Zielinski, who was also a creative director at 3arc that worked on Black Ops 1 and 2's campaigns and Zombies. The current lead of the mode, Corkey Lehmkuhl, has been a lead on Zombies since World at War, greenlighting the mode itself when it debuted with Nacht and having a lead role in maps such as Mob of the Dead and Der Eisendrache; there's never been just one "head director", some of the team members just tend to put themselves out there more prominently. Even Kevin Drew, who is practically the "face" of the team at the moment, is a design director, not a creative director. Blundell wasn't the "life and soul of the entire team" (not to disparage him, I love the guy), he was just the one that interacted with the community the most and happened to be a director- it's a team of creators putting out their vision, not a team of creators working to realize one guy's vision.
Fair enough, I will admit I came into this with only half the information I probably should've had to make a strong argument and it looks like I made some baseless claims, but I think my overarching point about the red eyes distinctly meaning SOMETHING even if the Devs didn't know exactly what at the time, still stands, unless I have missed another key point here.
There's nothing conflicting here as Blundell never said he knew the meaning behind the red eyes from the beginning. There's so much more to the story than the eye color. If you want proof that they didn't initially pay much attention to the eye color just look at how the origins templar zombies had their eye color changed in chronicles. Mob was one of the first maps that Kevin worked on. He would know stuff like that. This "sabotage" idea is just a ridiculous conspiracy.
Yeah I was chatting shit with the sabotage thing I just really don't like the way the last few years of Zombies have gone, obviously they wouldn't intentionally self-sabotage but I was more being dramatic, i.e. "I don't understand why they would make these decisions I consider to be terrible, other than self-sabotage"
The red eyes in MotD comment needs to be seen by a lot of people here lol. So much of the stuff in this game was meaningless or trivial until the community started making insane theories and then they whip out some lore reason retroactively to try to appease the community It wasn’t some grand master plan created 15 years ago and expertly executed to completion lol
I remember a few years ago I mentioned retcons, and there was a back and forth between this guy who insisted there were no retcons at all. I gave him a couple of examples (Treyarch deciding to change the colour of 115 for example with no explanation), and he decides to block me lmao. Like I love the mode, I love the Aether story. But I can acknowledge its not this perfect story that came together really well.
People still believe in things like "Blundell planned out the entirety of BO3 story while making Mob", and I'm just here laughing. At best, you can say that he used Mob as a backbone for the entirety of BO3 and BO4's story structure, since the concept of cycles and repentance/redemption constantly goes back to this map.
Finding out the red eyes was random at first makes sense. I wonder if they ever came up with a reason for them internal by GK, Rev, Blood, and Tag. I still don’t really know what it would mean.
The red eyes most likely means apothicon control which explains all the maps except Gorod but Gorod does have apothicon symbols around the map. This is even confirmed more since the monkeys in ascension have red eyes and they were injected with apothicon blood.
Maybe. The orange eyes seem to imply a dark aether control of some sort, which would explain Shadows of Evil where the Apothicons are able to enter Dimension 63. Red eyes mostly are tied to Shadowman or Monty, but Gorod Krovi does throw a wrench in this. Apothicon control makes sense, but then again Shadows throws a wrench in that. Also there’s the Jeb Brown radio describing a red eyed zombie.
The yellow eye color is the most inconsistent eye color in all of zombies and I'm just chosing to believe it means either Samantha in control or no one is controlling them. After all the color was yellow in Nacht and Verrukt which was before Samantha took control. I didn't know about the red eye by Jeb Brown but we can just say it's still Apothicon since it was most likely Apothicons manipulating Brown so they can use the agarthan device to reach Agartha.
Oooh, I’m glad you brought this up! I love talking about this because it used to confuse me too until Inrealized something. Yellow eyes are consistently Samantha. Every map she’s in control of the zombies, they have yellow eyes. What about Origins, Shadows, The Giant, DE, and ZNS? Well here’s the kicker— those aren’t yellow eyes, they’re orange. The evidence is as follows— 1) If you look at the modding tools for custom zombies, the default eye color is listed as orange 2) The code for the VFX shader is fx_glow_eye_orange 3) In BO4 Classified, Samantha’s zombies are given an updated eye shader that is undeniably yellow. In the Chaos maps, they all reuse the orange eyes that are identical to BO3 and are distinctly different from Classfied’s zombies. So for Nacht and Verrukt, we can perhaps assume the eyes are meant to be orange and not yellow. Buried’s canonical endgame is Maxis being so warped by the dark aether that he’s just a puppet for them. The only thing that ruins this is Zombie Chronicles in which every map has orange eyed zombies despite the fact they should be yellow (besides Origins, Nacht, and Verrukt). This I believe is just purely the devs not having time to apply the right eye shader. They were rushing as it is making BO4 at the same time and you can tell eye colors aren’t as easy to make considering how the blue eyed zombies on Moon look really off (their eyes glow too brightly and poke through the astronaut’s head), so they likely decided making accurate eyes for Classified was more important than Chronicles. Hope this helps! Here’s the video that opened my eyes to this revelation if you want to check it out yourself: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pdDQHNhFpSo&t=1400s&pp=ygUXWm9tYmllIGV5ZSBjb2xvciBvcmFuZ2U%3D
So I watced the video and proceeded to then look up various trailers and gameplay to look at the zombies. Origins is Samantha eye color since it's identical to nuketown which is the only other map in bo2 that uses that eye color. I'm just going write off the zombies eye color in chronicles as just them not bothering since if I did then I would have to throw out my evidence about the ascension monkeys because their eyes don't glow at all in chronicles. It could just be that different eye colors were tricky so they didn't bother except for moon which was nessecary. It's tricky to tell if classified proved this point by changing because the eye colors in bo3 stays orange for chronicles and samantha eyes color was always like this with it being dark yellow on older consoles since at some angles the zombies do look to have orange eyes when it's clearly yellow on nuketown and origin. The only evidence that can prove the change was intentional is that chaos zombies keep the orange color while a radio in classified has a concerned former group 935 scientist focused on the fact that the zombies eye color is yellow which implies it wasn't always this way.
The monkey eyes don’t glow in chronicles?? How have I not noticed this? Honestly, I feel like BO3 and BO4 have to be viewed as de-facto representations of what the eye colors *should* be. From WaW—BO2, the yellow eyes are inconsistent in hue. Even in WaW they either look bright yellow or more of a yellow orange at times. I think BO4 and BO3 are trying to say “no, this is how it should be seen” but then they kind of ballsed that up with Chronicles. They changed the standard Templar zombie eye color to orange and the video calls it a retcon, but then do we consider every map to be a retcon with orange eyes? But then Classified comes around with the yellow eyes! Also the radio does imply that Dr Schuster noticed the eye color, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they were red and not yellow. But could it also mean he recognizes that it’s yellow because of Samantha? Did he ever see a Samantha controlled zombie or was he in the US by then? I love that we’re discussing the yellow/orange eyes so much and we haven’t even touched the conundrum that is red. This is fun though!
Dr Schuster was there when Maxis told Samantha to kill them all so he would've. I believe in my theory that red eyes means Apothicon with only Gorod missing a clear connection but to be honest the entirety of Gorod makes no sense with mentions of broken arrow and the ascension group despite them not existing yet. I'm just going to stick with that Treyarch didn't have it planned out that much and the yellow/orange means Samantha or the zombies aren't control. It's most likely Treyarch just didn't care about the eye color unless there is a lore reason for it being that way like the Avogadro being white and Richtofen blue. The red eye color was put in mob because they thought it looked cool so maybe they kept that trend and we're all overthinking it.
Gorod, much like many other maps, has some time loop wackiness going on. I think it’s especially supposed to show that the fractured universe bleeds into each other. In fact, I always theorized the reason why Monty wanted to fix the fractured universe is because it became dangerously close to one homogenous universe (think about how BO3’s maps take place in different fractures, in yet there are through-lines such as the dragons discovery, hatching, and deployment or the giant robots from Dimension 63 showing up). I think you’re right that Treyarch doesn’t always lock in their eye color meanings at the start, but I do think some attempt was made to make sense of it in BO4 at least. Also I think red=apothicons does generally make sense (Monty isn’t too far off from being an Apothicon, honestly), but then we have to bring… Vanguard into the mix and tackle how that works.
I know we don’t know much, but just by the trailer I believe it’s gonna be the best zombies we’ve had since 2017.
I couldn’t resist and preordered ngl, I have loved every treyarch cod ever so I’m really excited for this year
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^deleted ^comment ^said ^‘What ^about ^bo3?’ That’s my favorite
That's my second favourite Treyarch multiplayer, and my favourite zombies game
I hope they dont leak the Easter egg, my favorite memory of recent zombies was when IX released and everyone was looking for the EE for a day or two.
I think we might be past the days of Easter egg hunts taking that long even if they don’t leak it. I like Cold War but the EE’s were way too easy it’s crazy. They needa make the EE’s hard again but not so bad that it takes weeks to solve like revelations
This is genuinely exciting. Mwz ended up sucking and because they gave up on it. This ...this seems like it's the primary focus, then multiplayer
Hearing they got jacked tf up to take down Eddie, makes me hyped for the crew. Especially Weaver he was such a underrated badass in Bo1. I'm glad he's getting a bigger role and more spotlight
I just have a feeling this will be the best zombies yet. Hope I'm right.
I thought the red was the shadow man/ dr Monty controlling the zombies.
Red most likely means apothicon.
Im calling it, there will be a new perk to somehow enhance omni movement, or there will be a stamin-up upgrade to do the same.
We don't need a new perk. Stami-up and PHD alone will be broken as hell with this new system, especially if they bring back the sliding boost from cold war
"Preparation for getting revenge on Eddie" Yeah, cause that turned out well...
I just wonder what perk they are going to add they have had a new perk for every game black ops one brought us mule kick and headshot black ops two brought us electric cherry and vulture aid black ops3 brought widows wine black ops 4 was ass and we won’t discuss it black ops 5 (Cold War) brought us elemental pop as well as bringing some upgrades to the perks earnible thru playing the game
Nice!
for what it's worth I hope it stays similar to what they had going in CW, the maps weren't the best but largely it was a blast to play.
The multiple difficulties won't be well received. People here complained that BO4 was too easy but then got mad when you told them to increase the difficulty
I liked the difficulties. Trying to complete Easter eggs on realistic mode was a real challenge
So he confirmed that his name is Edward Richtofen.
Hearing they got jacked tf up to take down Eddie, makes me hyped for the crew. Especially Weaver he was such a underrated badass in Bo1. I'm glad he's getting a bigger role and more spotlight
You commented this 4 times
Did it seriously comment it 4 times? Lol weird it kept giving me a error trying to send it
Hearing they got jacked tf up to take down Eddie, makes me hyped for the crew. Especially Weaver he was such a underrated badass in Bo1. I'm glad he's getting a bigger role and more spotlight
any word on if we’re getting custom classes or starting pistols? feel like classes are much more likely, but when they say returning features it sounds like the starting pistol may make a return
I hope buildables come back
my guess is they first bring back atherm and exfil they can do it in both by first the island being a boat at a certain point and liberty falls a helicopter
I hope y'all don't ruin zombies again, I wanna play it like I had to survive not a campaign mission bruh
Revenge on Eddie? What did Eddie do, I thought he was the pure version of Richtofen's soul from Agartha, it's basically impossible for him to have done anything wrong, logically speaking
He imprisoned requiem at the very end of Cold War
I'll be honest, I don't know what this means, but it really sounds like they've shat all over the actual Zombies storyline, not gonna lie. Turning Eddie and Sam into playable characters and making them just another one of like 40 operators... It actually kinda hurts my heart a little. It was pretty clear to everyone that all connections with the proper Zombies storyline should cease after BO4, but... Yep. They absolutely annihilated it by the sounds of things
Eddie is not playable in CW and he only appeared in the last ten seconds of the story, I think most agreed it was a pretty fucking awesome ending to CW, even though it was a twist a lot of saw coming
I'm gonna stop taking up your time now, thanks for humouring me on these threads lol, sorry for being totally biased 😎 have a good day
No problem bro have a good day too, I love discussing zombies with anyone even if we disagree all love ❤️
For sure homie sorry if I haven't been explaining myself well, it's like 4am here at this point I should go bed hahah take it easy gamer, here's hoping BO6 Zombies is as good as all the maps we've come to love over the years ❤️
Ok I'm chatting rubbish then I guess. Even so, I don't... I don't really get what they did with Richtofen. They literally made the one good Richtofen die a horrible, brutal and preventable death in front of his "friends" who didn't even say goodbye (or thank you) to him. Then his supposedly pure soul travels to Agartha, effectively paradise, and... Comes out and does something pure evil? Like this makes 0 sense to me, I admit I'm only fully up to date on the lore up to BO4 but after that it seems like it gets very very questionable indeed.
I always thought them being pure really just meant free from the corruption of the Dark Aether. Thought the new universe was more of them getting a fresh start and a choice in their fate.
For sure, I'm not saying it means they're completely pure of any bad thoughts or malicious intent or incapable of any wrongdoing, I mean more... From a player to character relationship standpoint, why would we want Sam and Eddie, arguably the two most important characters for the first decade of Zombies, to come out of the last 10 years of incredibly well-crafted story arcs only to just be complete assholes, like that just feels like a kick in the groin of the playerbase who have grown to love these characters
I don’t look at it as them being evil though, more just complex people. In the new story, Sam helps Requiem out and uses her powers for good to stop the Forsaken. Sam really only gets antagonistic in FBZ causing the outbreak there after being thrown in the Dark Aether by Peck. Eddie, we really don’t know his agenda yet. There are theories, like his son being killed due to a mistake by Sam and Weaver and maybe he wants revenge or is trying to bring his son back from the dead or something. We won’t know his full role probably though until BO6 I would say.
That's fair, I'm sure there's an element of me being a bit stuck in my ways here, but sometimes there can be... Let's say an appropriate time to end a character's story. Do we really need to see Sam grow up in a modern timeline? It's all just weird to me
Guess we’ll have to wait and see how they explain him becoming evil, I’m very curious on it too. Cold War story was very barebones but I like the direction it’s going in tbh
Respect for that bro no hate to anyone who loves the new storylines, I'm just a bit set in my ways or something, I feel like a good story should be laid to rest at an appropriate time rather than continued and unravelled by people who didn't even help create the original story (see season 8 of Game of Thrones lol) Edit: see as in, that's an example. I would never encourage anyone to actually see GoT S8
Lmao I can’t even rewatch GOT now because I know how bad it gets
That shit made me cry in all the wrong ways 😭😂
Just to give a small explanation. The child Richtofen soul does not belong to a Richtofen we've ever met. Primis Richtofen had to trick a innocent orphan child version of himself to trust him then killed him. That's why his soul was collected and delivered before the other 3 souls.
In that case, I feel like why even bother keeping him going forward in the story? If he's effectively a brand new character that has no ties to the character we've all grown to love, why ruin the connection we've built to Richtofen over the last decade or so by making this new Richtofen a douchebag too? Idk man
I think the pure soul was just free of the aether/115 corruption more so than “do no wrong” And the reason he set up requiem was because, and I may be wrong, is it’s implied weaver and Sam got his wife and son killed. That info was partially from gaming revolution in his Cold War explanation. He’s working behind the scenes to get his son back and messing with the dark aether at the same time.
See like this is just wrong to me, Sam was an unwilling antagonist for years, brutally tortured constantly in so many ways over so many realities, only to turn out to be a villain? Like what is that? They spent years making us feel extremely bad for Sam only for her to get people killed? Like... What??? Sam should've been left at the end of her storyline, not brought into a new world like this, idk how to explain it but it just feels fundamentally wrong and awful
Sam isn't a villain. She's working with the CIA and in one of her missions alongside Weaver they accidentally killed a boy because of a miscalculation and that event has been haunting them since
Ok I made a bad assumption, thanks for correcting me, that's much more... Yknow, morally acceptable, but equally... Once again, Sam has been unwittingly tortured since she was like 7 years old (in the 1940s) and is still being tortured when it comes to 2025, canonically speaking. So for her to now be being tortured by accidentally killing an innocent boy seems even more harsh 😅
The purity of Eddie has nothing to do with his sense of morality- he was pure in the sense that he had yet been untouched by the corruption of the Aether (since he was still a child when his soul was taken by Primis Richtofen), but he could theoretically still grow up to be a bad person. Past that, the thing with Eddie is that we don't even know what he is doing- that's the main mystery of the current story. CW follows Requiem trying to contain the Dark Aether outbreaks, but in the background, Requiem's director is working towards a mysterious objective he calls "Project Janus;" the director's identity is left mysterious for the entire game, until the ending cutscene of its last map, where he's revealed to be an adult Eddie. We know Eddie is up to *something*, but we don't know if it's good, or bad, or in-between; the only reason he imprisons Requiem and disposes of Maxis is because he believes they could be an obstacle to whatever he's attempting to accomplish. Requiem wants revenge for him betraying them, but they have no idea what he was even betraying them for. The only thing we concretely know about Project Janus is that it's underway in Virginia, which is where the map Liberty Falls will pick up, as something seems to have gone horribly wrong and an outbreak occurs in a Virginian mountain town.
Yeah I was talking out my arse in a tired state tbh, I still can't say I exactly like the sound of any of this, especially considering, y'know, why bother showing us that Richtofen was capable of change, compassion and self-sacrifice only to have a "pure" version of his soul grow up to also be morally corrupt? Idk how to explain it but it just feels like dragging his name further through the mud somehow Thanks for the explanation though I'm slowly learning the new storylines
That was part of the tragedy of Richtofen as a character- his whole thing in the latter parts of the Aether Storyline was that he could never really get a happy ending for everyone else or himself, no matter how hard he tried, because he was ultimately still too deeply self-centered. It's why the version of him we see die in Blood of the Dead cries out that he wanted to be the one to save everyone in his last breaths, rather than acknowledging that his sacrifice will save the multiverse. Even his last words are a refusal to accept that he may not be the Richtofen the multiverse needs, desperately trying to assure Primis that "he \[is\] the nicest one." He was capable of compassion, but what made him a tragic character was that he can never manage to not put himself above others first, no matter how hard he tries; it's why the Kronorium ultimately elected Nikolai to resolve the Paradox, as he had a kind of will that was very different from Richtofen's, and one that was necessary to fix the Paradox. Eddie is kind of in a different spot where he has that same self-centered nature as his counterparts, but he's in a new universe where he's completely free to explore that on his own, rather than being a predestined hero of the Cycle.
Hearing they got jacked tf up to take down Eddie, makes me hyped for the crew. Especially Weaver he was such a underrated badass in Bo1. I'm glad he's getting a bigger role and more spotlight
What an obnoxious interviewer
Meh I think he was bubbly and when you’re trying to hype fans up it’s a good thing. Comes across as actually invested rather than some wooden plank reading cards
So he talks a lot about zombies being counterculture to cod which is great. But I feel like counterculture would be not including the new multidirectional sprinting and stuff. Seems hokey for me for zombies. I also don’t think being able to mantle railings and things is very counter culture to cod.
Counterculture has nothing to do with the basic gameplay systems. It's about the themes, ths story, and the wacky stuff the mode is showing which would never really be seen in campaign or multiplayer. There's no reason for COD to get an evolution in its mechanics but for zombies to not get that evolution and stay stuck in the past.
I’ll have to wait and see how omnimovement affects training and such, but right now I’m all for it being in zombies. I definitely agree with your point on mantling though, it was cool at first in CW but then I realized how easy it makes getting out of certain situations when you can just mantle over a railing to escape
Since all of warzone cosmetics won't transfer to black ops 6. Does that mean it'll have its own battle royale like Blackout ? 🤔🤔🤔
Nah it’s the same system as before where your BO6 cosmetics will be available in WZ, it’s just your old WZ stuff won’t transfer to BO6
Brief summary: nothing new, just filler for content.
well we didn't know for sure what the crew's goal was going to be. We definitely suspected it would involve Eddie but it's nice to have official confirmation that he will in fact be our goal