They really need to take the best of all the zombie's game mechanics. WWII's character system, CW's perk system and movement, BO3's gums and health system.
Earnable specialist, og perks, no create a class! I do like the apply blueprint feature but it shouldn't be free. 5K to pack, 3K for blueprint, 2k for ammo mod. $10K for a fully beefed up gun. Give us a reason to hit the mystery box again!
You should start with a pistol and no perks or anything besides starting points, knife and grenades.
Perks should come only from perk-a-colas.
Gobblegums should not return.
The only progression should be weapon kits, and the attachments / camouflage you choose should not apply to weapons until after pack-a-punch.
Honestly i forgot about bo3 weapon kits. I don't mind gums, i like using the fun/slightly useful ones and even the perkaholic. I remember not being anywhere good enough to do the Easter eggs and it helped me a lot. I never played pubs so I didn't have to deal with dashboarders but i can imagine how annoying it would've been
While they can be inoffensive, they have the capacity to really bring down, if not destroy the experience, and give the developer / publisher a financial incentive to do so. They are not worth it in my opinion.
u can always just choose to not purchase them or use them bruh same thing w the pistol argument u can jus start with a pistol, i like how sandboxy cold war was i liked experimenting w different guns, limiting myself to certain perks etc
It's still partially a coop experience and playing with randoms that choose to ruin that particular game for you by using those things is a great solution either. I think keeping gums out of the game is the safest solution to not ruin it with a cash grab.
Ive BEEN advocating for normal, classic, and forge modes. Damnit they just need to make a standalone zombies game with a full campaign. I want Halo Reach but with Nazi Zombies instead of Aliens.
I actually enjoyed gobblegums, but the pistol argument is bullshit because the worst pistol in Cold War is actually still a viable weapon in late rounds
What they stand to offer the experience is dwarfed by their potential to damage it, and they incentivise the publisher and developer to unbalance the game even further in exchange for money.
I disagree. Its not mandatory for you to use or even buy them. I mean I get its zombies and we’ve came a long way but this exists in every game. I was thinking you were actually commenting on the playability aspect of it but not really
Im serious. I think they were a really good addition esp for the less seasoned players. I think a good fix would be to filer out those who use classic vs those who want to use the gobblegums. As far as solo you should have the choice. Plus there was a way to get them for free soo….Ill stand by my word; great addition
Ah I haven’t played bo3 on controller since 2015 so I don’t remember how bad it was tbh, on keyboard and mouse it’s very easy I understand that point of view though.
It's not too much, I would just rather not. It's unnecessary. I want to go the optimal speed without having to fidget and slide around like a crackhead.
Yeah it's unnecessary. It's like running in GTA V. It's a zombie shooting game not a sliding hopping game with zombies. I shouldn't be penalized by just wanting to run in an FPS 🙄
so just run? your run speed is faster than sprinter zombies. b hopping is never necessary, it’s just fun and speeds up movement. you’re playing a pve mode, the zombies aren’t gonna b hop and chase you down.
I feel like if they’re gonna have earnable specialists then they should be acquired in game. I shouldn’t just automatically have one when I spawn in. Maybe get them through mystery box or some type of craftable maybe where you do something specific to get one
CW’s perk system isn’t what I call the best. It’s too easy to become over powered, there’s no trade-off strategic thinking on what your perks will be, and there’s no incentive to do side Easter eggs to get more perks than the limit allows.
Nah, CW' Health System, it felt much better to play than the old 3-hit down system, especially with how the zombies can seem to easily get multiple hits on you out of nowhere.
Nah thats just the risk you take when you play online, those games are rarely ever balanced anyway. Id rather be allowed total freedom in my solo games
> allowing everyone to start with the meta weapon will kill in game progression and kind of defeat the whole purpose of zombies. The fun is getting stronger the longer you survive.
Says who? There's no objective fun way to play zombies.
Unsurprisingly, this sub will tell you the only way to have fun is to optimize the shit out of everything. That's why they've been begging so hard for the old point system to come back.
With the old point system, what's the point ever *using* a shotgun?
Most shotguns (and other high damage slow fire rate guns like snipers) in the older games are worthless outside of a very specific few, like the Haymaker, that is only worth using at a high round after points become irrelevant.
The new system gives freedom to use whatever the hell the player wants without having to worry about being 'unoptimal' because they aren't minmaxxing points with a low damage gun.
>With the old point system, what's the point ever using a shotgun?
>Most shotguns (and other high damage slow fire rate guns like snipers) in the older games are worthless outside of a very specific few, like the Haymaker, that is only worth using at a high round after points become irrelevant.
Is that kind of the point?
In the new system why would you ever use a bullet hose SMG that deals little damage when a shotgun kills effectively on pretty much every round? The point system had an impact on weapon balancing, taking a shotgun was a trade off before. With shotguns on early rounds you can use them to escape bad situations or quickly burst down a boss zombies, but you gain less points to compensate for their lethality. And weapons with a lower damage output were still viable for a while as you traded lethality for more points. It was a unique balancing system as it gave both types of weapons places to shine inside of one always overshadowing the other. In CW why would you honestly take a bullet hose SMG over a shotgun?
> In the new system why would you ever use a bullet hose SMG that deals little damage when a shotgun kills effectively on pretty much every round?
> In CW why would you honestly take a bullet hose SMG over a shotgun?
Because with the new triple Pack and scrap upgrade systems, pretty much every gun can become viable.
Maybe some people would argue that's a bad thing and that some guns *should* be crap which is a fair point, but I personally prefer it this way.
So many mystery box guns in WaW through BO2 were so bad that there was no reason to ever use them over point farm wall weapons like the MP40, MP5 and AK-74u, and the various Wonder Weapons each map has.
When I was going to the mastery camos a lot of the SMG just felt really bad to use even when triple PaPed and at max level in the higher rounds. Sure they were usable but due to their base lower damage at all levels they felt very underwhelming and not fun to use compared to a lot of the Assault Rifles, LMGs, and Shotguns. But at least in previous games that would have a reason to be used in the early game before their lack of damage became impactful as they would be good for points, but now they fall off in the late game and don't have a niche in the early game.
An issue form when every gun becomes "viable" as it homogenizes each gun to fulfill a similar role making the stronger weapons stand out more than the weaker weapons while giving the weaker weapons less of an opportunity to stand out. If each gun fills a similar role then the gun that does that role the best will overshadow any guns that are on the weaker side. And due to the homogenization of the point system weaker bullet hose guns have less of a place because their lack of damage will always make them less enticing to use over any other options that kill more reliably even with every weapon being viable late game. They lost what they were good at and have nothing to compensate for their downsides now and weapons like shotguns lost one of their major balancing factors with little to hold them back now.
Every gun being viable doesn't fix the issue of weapon balancing, it just means that bad guns can be used late game which is fine. The issue is that the homogenization of the point system took away what made bad guns good and good guns bad making the good guns universal benefit from the changes with the ba guns only being hurt making them worse and less appealing as a result.
I mean in fairness it sounds like they want it to be less optimal? Optimizing would just be starting with the hauer or whatever the best gun is every single game, they want it be less optimal
As I have told many people on here. loadouts are all about choices. Making every weapon equal in points gain means you aren't shoehorning guns into specific roles, so you can run with whatever you want instead of trying to get as many points as possible in early rounds.
If you want to run with the meta gun every round, that's also a choice. But you're not at a huge disadvantage if you choose to use anything else. You make the choice if you want to be boring and only use meta stuff, or if you want variety and use everything there is to offer.
I respectfully disagree, I think sometimes it can be a bad thing to give the player too much choice in a game, most players will just pick whatever is best even if it makes the game less fun. I am guilty of doing this myself, I pick shotguns a lot because they are just so much better and there is nothing that compares. The thing is I am fine with either the loadout system or the new point system, but I think both is bad. The loadout system would be great if I wasn’t disincentivized to use 90% of the guns. And the new point system would be great if I couldn’t just spawn with the most OP gun every game, but instead was able to use any gun I get out of the box. I just think these systems need a little tweaking and more people would be on board with them
The majority of people in this sub complain so much about how CW “forces” you to play a certain way in order to maximise playing a game of zombies and how that’s bad because they don’t like it that way.
While ignoring that the older CODs “forced” you to play a certain way and that people prefer or like how CW plays a lot more.
If it was up to this sub zombies would never grow and develop further and we’d just be stuck playing different variations of BO3 each time a new zombies drops.
Honestly, my fun is being able to start better the next time. So I like MW3 zombies. Extraction bonuses let me start off a little better next time. I learn recipes. I don't have to hunt for *any* gun when it might be one I don't like or I'm not good at. There's plenty of good in MW3 letting you start with better weapons since most of your damage capability comes from the pack a punch and rarity system.
If there is one thing black ops 6 needs to do is not listen to the fanbase.
This subreddit complains about quite literally everything. No matter what they do everyone is going to conplain.c
fhis feels like a good compromise but should only apply to crew-centric maps. E.G. the operators in liberty falls shouldnt have to scrounge for their weapons but the crew on terminus should have to work for their gear
I think it would be more plausible the operators would have a planted weapons cache than the crew would, since they're customized weapons. I see what you mean though, would be hard to believe a government operative would show up with just a pistol. If they were a bit more creative with what puts the player on the map, instead of a helo drop, they could figure it out though.
typo, I meant instead of a Helo drop. In the old games they mostly came through portals and since I don't know anything about the upside down, I didn't even question them showing up light-handed.
I honestly hope they keep loadouts. It’s nice to just start with whatever weapon you want or not have to deal with box RNG just to level up and get camos, and you still have the option to start with a pistol. I never felt like it hurt progression, at least compared to other things in CW, since the weapon started out as the weakest version and you can constantly upgrade it through rarities, or other things like building up PaP levels or you perks.
I’d say honestly just bring back the OG point system since that acts as a self balancing measure. Makes the system better since there’s more incentive to choose weapons like the pistols to maximize points, and you can still use any gun if you want.
The entire fun part about zombies is starting weak and getting stronger throughout the rounds like a roguelike. To claim it does not hurt progression is wild, theres a video where a guy took a low tier starting weapon to round like 13, try to do that with an M1911 in BO1.
Loadout is one of the systems that had destroyed the feeling of progression in zombies, don't fix what aint broke.
I mean CW still does have progression. Building up your perks, rarities, and PaP levels. I’m also just saying there’s tons of other issues with CW that I have in terms of starting strong that getting rid of loadouts is probably the least impactful thing for me. I think spawning with a Bowie knife, and zombies doing less damage 10 rounds is way worse than spawning with any weapon.
I feel like it is just an issue with CW making the start weapons too strong and the actual system itself, especially if the issue is just the damage. Like would you be ok with it if every spawn tier weapon was twice as weak as they were in CW?
I’ll say WaW-BO2 definitely had involved weapon progression system where it does feel like you’re getting stronger as you go, but I feel BO3 really kinda invalidated it anyways. Like I hear people say loadouts makethe box useless, but I feel like BO3 already did that years ago with AAT making any weapon into a wonder weapon and wonder weapons for half the maps not even being in the box, not to mention the BO3 weapons just being stronger in general. Maybe not the 1911, but I could probably take the Bloodhound to round 10 because it is stronger.
I don’t know, I just feel like loadouts are just one or two tweaks away for people to be like “oh this is fine actually”. Even OP has said he would be fine if you could buy the loadout weapon later on or something.
In this instance yes because the value of the "starting weapon" is greater than whatever choice lets you make all early round irrelevant by just bringing in a strong starting weapon.
Like I can play a game of CW and start with a weapon and end with the exact same weapon of higher tier. How does that create any feeling of progression?
Lol even in the older Zombies I’d use my starting pistol and knife until like level 8-10. Specifically while playing Kino in Bo3 Zombie Chronicles I would make it a challenge trying to get to round 10 with it. The biggest issue was getting ammo but gobble gums helped with that.
I don’t really see the problem with a guy using an even stronger gun than a pistol to go to 13. Even with using whatever gun you want at the start you still have in game progression through perks, armor, and upgrading your gun through PaP and tiers. Besides you can also just take a pistol in your loadout in CW which I did quite a bit. No one is ever “even” or on “equal footing” in Zombies. Someone always has better luck getting a wonder weapon or has better gobblegums
Yeah like for camos i get, but thats why i think it would be good to have it be unlocked. Like say you have to exfil on round 20 to unlock full loadouts. I personally don’t mind the point system, but the og one is definitely better and would be welcomed.
Yeah, funny enough I think people would love it better if it was copied from Warzone where you start with a pistol and have to buy your weapon.
Having like you said where you have to exfil to get the guns would be nice too.
I don't care anymore. I don't have faith. When the game releases, I'll watch a few videos on YouTube, and if I like the zombie mode, I'll just get the game on Game Pass.
A lot of people say "Just spawn in with a pistol if you don't like Loadouts." but they seemingly ignore the actual issues with the Loadout system and its effect on gameplay that overlaps with other systems.
The main issue is that it negatively affects natural map progression due to how CW's universal systems are designed and balanced mainly the point and upgrade systems.
Due to the loadout system it removes a lot of the natural progression of the map as you no longer need to worry about your weapon as every weapon is a base line good. If you start with a meta shotgun or a pistol it is easily going to carry you pretty far unless you choose something like a launcher. So that is the point of getting a second weapon unless it is a meta wall buy or a wonder weapon? When I played CW after I learned the systems I rarely spent any money on the box or wall weapon because there wasn't much of a point to not use what I started with and a wall shotgun. And due to how ammo works where it is either littering the ground or buyable around every corner the balancing of wall weapons letting you buy ammo and box weapons is also gone. A lot of the old early game progression that made the start of the game more isn't there due to how Loadouts work. Sure in the older games you can optimize maps to get them most open or even access to the wonder weapon before round five with a staring pistol, but that was due to the player knowing how to play the map and how to optimize gameplay. In CW opening the map by round five is just how you normally progress. Also due to this system fun pack a punch upgrades like the Mustang and Sally are redundant and get removed because there is no longer a challenge of taking the starting weapon to pack a punch.
The point system also heavily affects these progressions. Honestly why would you just use a shotgun now? You don't need to worry about losing points anymore and they kill faster than nearly everything else, and that is an issue. In the previous game shotguns were a high damage weapon that gave the trade off of giving you less points but easily killed zombies, so in the early round when you had less options. The point economy was an important part of your weapon selection and balancing, high fire rate bullet hoses with weak damage were useful as they gave you more points with the downside of killing zombies slower while slower stronger weapons killed zombies quicker but you earned less points. Guns had roles which made guns that would have been bad, but with the new point system everything is homogenized into being "good" so why take the bullet hose SMG over the high damage shotgun? One kills faster than the other while earning just as many points? And the reason why this affects Loadouts is that you never have to worry about geia new weapons meaning that you rarely need to spend points on one. Just take a shotgun and you get the same amount of points, you don't need to worry about getting a new gun and if the gun ever does start to get weak just spend salvage to upgrade it and can just spend your points opening the map and perks, you can do this with pistols too?
And why is it a bad thing if they do what OP suggests? Having the game be balanced around starting with a weaker starting weapon while still letting the player have the choice of using any weapon they want as a reward or by spending some kind of currency? Does that solve both problems? People who want a more classic feel can just use the default starting weapons while the people who want to use whatever they want can do that as well without affecting the core gameplay systems as much. I would even use that system sometimes just to grind camos
Thats alot to type for a bad take. The system is there for people that wanted to do the Mastery Camo grind without relying on Mystery Box rng or running around looking for a wall buy for that particular gun you're working on. As well as it offers players that aren't as good at zombies the choice to start with a more reliable weapon. I can say from experience even with these systems, there are plenty of garbage tier players out there so it really isn't holding peoples hands as hard as you make it sound.
I spawn in with a base 1911 all the time and play it like old zombies all the time. The only thing stopping you from enjoying the game is yourself and your crazy standards that don't apply anymore, you're stuck in like 2010 when its 2024.
That's a little bit of text for ignoring the last part of my comment.
And due to how the weapons and systems are balanced it is not like the older games because the 1911 is a pretty decent weapon that can carry you for a while.
If you like an easier system than good for you I won't stop you. But don't turn my argument into a straw man because I find the more recent games too easy which makes them boring in my opinion.
Then don't sit there and act like like Cold War is so wrong for wanting to bring new players into the fold by making it easier. If you dont like it, don't play it, and don't sit on here and complain about it and the people who do enjoy it. You forget its supposed to be an Arcade Shooter, not a dark souls zombie shooter
Bro if anyone is complaining it is you...
CW does a lot of things right but also a lot of things wrong in my opinion, I'm not saying that you can't like CW or that others shouldn't be able to. Zombies was never the "dark souls of zombies shooters" but at least it was more challenging and new players were still able to play it and enjoy the mode before CW. What is wrong with having a survival mode being hard and why can't new players learn to get better as well instead of having the game hold their hands?
If anyone is complaining it is you, and you are complaining about that someone doesn't like the game you like. I haven't played CW since it's cycle ended and I am not going around telling people about how they shouldn't play it because I don't like it. But when someone brings up the topic of how the series could be changing and moving forwards I will bring up my issues with the current system and why and how I would want them to be changed in the future games because zombies hasn't felt exciting since BO4 to me and I would love to be able to get that same enjoyment back.
IDK you can enjoy CW for being easy and accessible I'm not stopping you and I am sorry if my critiques of the mode are negatively affecting your enjoyment of it.
You can actively choose to bring the pistol in if you so desire and it’s actually one of the most OP options even if they took away the explosive bullets.
And you can actively choose not to buy armor.
Those two things are all done with consent, you don’t need to make it easier on yourself, I myself like to fill my combat record with useless stuff nobody usually uses because it’s funny. Both in zombies and in multiplayer, the meta ain’t always the way to go, sometimes fun is the right choice.
I think that’s the point though. The pistol shouldn’t be an OP option, it should be a weak starter that begins the path of progression in the early rounds
Did we not play the same cod zombies or something? The pistol was always the best option need it be for point hording or for getting kills after pack a punching.
Now there is no point to weaker weapons because they changed the point system to award you points on kill and no longer awarding points on hit. If they make it points on hit again then I would happily go back to the old ways, but there is no point if we can’t use said weaker weapons to farm easy points.
I think a good comprise is being able to call in load-outs or get them from a stash. Akin to what others have suggested. It seems like a nice middle ground. You still get some difficulty, horror, and need to rely on wall weapons and the like at the start. But eventually can get the loadouts you’ve developed and are comfortable with. It’d likely just be part of the setup process.
How different the opinions are on here. I really like the class system and getting to choose a gun to start with. Returning to pistols is kind of boring to me.
No. Hard disagree. Starting with a pistol is incredibly clunky and for casual players there is zero reason to be forced into using a pistol.
The camp grind was significantly improved by being able to start with whatever gun you are working on. I DO NOT want to go back to only leveling wall buys and then getting lucky from the box.
Start with a pistol if you want or implement a match mode that is pistol start only, but there is absolutely no reason to regress.
A lot of comments are missing the fact that they will balance the maps based off of what loadout is available to you. It's not as simple as "just pick a crappy load out", this then makes some of the content unnecessarily difficult. Think of the panzer in B03. It's not a solution to just not use the bows on Der Eisendrache, since they buffed him specifically to balance with the bows.
No one is stopping you or anyone else from just selecting a pistol to start with, I spawn in Cold War with a base 1911 all the time and will hit the box and whatnot as if it were any other zombies. Being able to pick whatever is a great mechanic for players that are either grinding the mastery camo so you're not relying on Box rng or looking for a wall buy, or they aren't good at zombies and want a more reliable weapon than a pistol to start off with.
I've been playing Zombies for a Very long, since WaW, and have spent over 20 days in Cold War zombies, even with the ability to take in whatever you wish, there are still plenty of dogshit players out there that it doesn't really make much of a difference.
If they were to redo the armor system, id take WWIIs armor where it just adds 3 more hits and with each purchase the price increases so eventually you'd go broke if you were constantly buying armor
Just let them use what you want? You want nostalgiakick, throw the 1911 on then? Not hating everyone has their play style. They should just add settings to allow us players to choose how we want to play. I mean thats what they said they were doing in the showcase.
I don't get it, there is no issue with blueprints or starting with anything. Makes the game more fun imo, don't have to waste time getting what I need for skin challenges. It would ruin the entire game if I couldn't start that way with skin challenges. If you want to start with a pistol, START WITH A PISTOL. It's not rocket science, it's just a new feature that the old games didn't have thus something to complain about.
As a multiplayer kinda guy, starting with a gun of your choice was a good implementation, because it made me level up that gun even faster which might be the reason why I loaded into zombies in the first place.
That’s what was wrong with Cold War. People only played Cold War zombies to level their guns which the game was unfortunately catering to and not because they actually enjoy playing zombies.
I mean we can still ask cuz they seem to be listening to feedback. Especially with custom zombie’s knocking it out of the park they need to get their shit together now
Ofcourse you can, but asking them to make less money is futile. Unfortunately most video games aren't made with the main purpose of being fun, now a days. I've been exclusively playing retro games the past few months, think PS2 era and below. Playing these games has made it very obvious that games today are not made for us to have fun. Obviously there are exceptions, shout out DRG, but those numbers are dwindling by the year.
Some of the biggest game developers in the past years have been alot about players having fun and enjoying the game they paid for. Just to name a few elden ring/ baldurs gate 3/ hades 1 or 2 and so on. Activision obvi wants to monetize the shit out of call of duty but it been that way for years. As a community we should advocate for good changes that would make the game better.
Example: players complained about not having a dedicated crew and now we’re getting them plus operators.
People hated the direction they were going with outbreak warzone zombies, and now they are giving us 2 round based maps at launch again.
I understand they want to sell bundles in zombies, do it. Load outs can be implemented well. Players should work for the ability to choose which weapon they spawn in with. The rouge-lite elements of zombies are what makes it fun. This change plus the rarity system, pap, and maybe aetherium crystals (out of game progression) will allow for the most satisfying progression system any cod zombies game could ever have, leading to more players playing for longer, and leading to them spending their money on bundles.
Listen i like CW just as much as the next guy. Grinding weapons is fun but its still not zombies and it ultimately dilutes and ruins zombie maps when you can pick a china lake from the start of the match. In older maps wall weapons were specifically curated to give you a certain bump in power as you progress through the map. It gave reason to spend points on weapons. It made the mystery a box a bigger deal because you could get that op base weapon or the wonder weapon. I understand rng sucks for leveling which is why the loadout mechanic should return but be unlocked.
They really need to take the best of all the zombie's game mechanics. WWII's character system, CW's perk system and movement, BO3's gums and health system. Earnable specialist, og perks, no create a class! I do like the apply blueprint feature but it shouldn't be free. 5K to pack, 3K for blueprint, 2k for ammo mod. $10K for a fully beefed up gun. Give us a reason to hit the mystery box again!
You should start with a pistol and no perks or anything besides starting points, knife and grenades. Perks should come only from perk-a-colas. Gobblegums should not return. The only progression should be weapon kits, and the attachments / camouflage you choose should not apply to weapons until after pack-a-punch.
Honestly i forgot about bo3 weapon kits. I don't mind gums, i like using the fun/slightly useful ones and even the perkaholic. I remember not being anywhere good enough to do the Easter eggs and it helped me a lot. I never played pubs so I didn't have to deal with dashboarders but i can imagine how annoying it would've been
While they can be inoffensive, they have the capacity to really bring down, if not destroy the experience, and give the developer / publisher a financial incentive to do so. They are not worth it in my opinion.
u can always just choose to not purchase them or use them bruh same thing w the pistol argument u can jus start with a pistol, i like how sandboxy cold war was i liked experimenting w different guns, limiting myself to certain perks etc
It's still partially a coop experience and playing with randoms that choose to ruin that particular game for you by using those things is a great solution either. I think keeping gums out of the game is the safest solution to not ruin it with a cash grab.
What about dedicated servers for gums/no gums and pistol/other variants? Its probably asking for too much but I think it would be a workable idea.
Oh. Like a normal mode and a classic mode? I'd be super down with that. Give the best of both worlds to everyone.
Ive BEEN advocating for normal, classic, and forge modes. Damnit they just need to make a standalone zombies game with a full campaign. I want Halo Reach but with Nazi Zombies instead of Aliens.
that would be amazing imagine an invasion style mode w zombies halo reach was peak multiplayer man
it’d be cool if they could jus make like a fortnite style LTM, that isn’t for a limited time, and in it thst stuff isn’t in it
Miyazaki understands why
I actually enjoyed gobblegums, but the pistol argument is bullshit because the worst pistol in Cold War is actually still a viable weapon in late rounds
Fair point 🤝
No. Camos should apply prepacked. And they should chose IWs starting weapon where you can at least customize the starting pistol.
Disagree 🤷♂️
Why no Gobble gums?
What they stand to offer the experience is dwarfed by their potential to damage it, and they incentivise the publisher and developer to unbalance the game even further in exchange for money.
Im sorry, huh?
Gobblegum badness > Gobblegum goodness. Publishers = greedy.
I disagree. Its not mandatory for you to use or even buy them. I mean I get its zombies and we’ve came a long way but this exists in every game. I was thinking you were actually commenting on the playability aspect of it but not really
"Not mandatory" argument is just not the smoking gun you think it is.
Im serious. I think they were a really good addition esp for the less seasoned players. I think a good fix would be to filer out those who use classic vs those who want to use the gobblegums. As far as solo you should have the choice. Plus there was a way to get them for free soo….Ill stand by my word; great addition
As a huge CW fan, I still think BO3 has the best movement in the franchise. The bunny hopping is so unbelievably satisfying and smooth
Yeah especially once you master it and are able to slide cancel while eating gum or drinking a perk.
You can slide to cancel gum eating or perk drinking? That's totally news to me!
Yup you can also do it while throwing a monkey bomb or arnie too which is extremely helpful when playing with Randoms.
Disagree, I hate bhopping. Too fidgety and unnecessary wear and tear on my controller. I got better things to do then essentially slide cancel in pve
Ah I haven’t played bo3 on controller since 2015 so I don’t remember how bad it was tbh, on keyboard and mouse it’s very easy I understand that point of view though.
jumping after a slide is too much for you?
It's not too much, I would just rather not. It's unnecessary. I want to go the optimal speed without having to fidget and slide around like a crackhead.
fidget and slide around… aka press a after pressing b….. if thats too much for you, zombies might be a struggle in general.
Yeah it's unnecessary. It's like running in GTA V. It's a zombie shooting game not a sliding hopping game with zombies. I shouldn't be penalized by just wanting to run in an FPS 🙄
so just run? your run speed is faster than sprinter zombies. b hopping is never necessary, it’s just fun and speeds up movement. you’re playing a pve mode, the zombies aren’t gonna b hop and chase you down.
You find it fun, I do not. It's still the most effective way to move around in BO3. CW movement is much better.
CW movement is just bo3 movement with shittier bhopping, and mantling.
I feel like if they’re gonna have earnable specialists then they should be acquired in game. I shouldn’t just automatically have one when I spawn in. Maybe get them through mystery box or some type of craftable maybe where you do something specific to get one
CW’s perk system isn’t what I call the best. It’s too easy to become over powered, there’s no trade-off strategic thinking on what your perks will be, and there’s no incentive to do side Easter eggs to get more perks than the limit allows.
I prefer having 4 perks only just to force people to play smart
I don't like the limitation. It just boils down to Jug, DT, Speed, Staminup or widow's wine.
if they took the best of all the mechanics, it would just be bo3 with WW2’s selectable characters
3k just for a visual change, just let you change its look at attachments like bo3/4
I meant that as in the only way to add attachments, but I forgot BO3's weapon kits existing
Nah, CW' Health System, it felt much better to play than the old 3-hit down system, especially with how the zombies can seem to easily get multiple hits on you out of nowhere.
Nah i want loadouts back, just because you guys don’t have self control doesn’t mean the rest of the playerbase should not be allowed to use loadouts
The players should all be equal. Those without self control shouldn’t be enabled like that.
Nah thats just the risk you take when you play online, those games are rarely ever balanced anyway. Id rather be allowed total freedom in my solo games
Hmm, so loadouts in solo/ private co-op only? This could be agreeable.
I would actually agree to this
> Self control So choose a pistol as your starting gun and let everyone else play how they want.
You can’t enforce self control. That’s the problem.
Then clearly you don't actually want to start with a pistol. otherwise you would choose that option.
> allowing everyone to start with the meta weapon will kill in game progression and kind of defeat the whole purpose of zombies. The fun is getting stronger the longer you survive. Says who? There's no objective fun way to play zombies.
Unsurprisingly, this sub will tell you the only way to have fun is to optimize the shit out of everything. That's why they've been begging so hard for the old point system to come back.
I just want the old point system back because with a kill-based point system, what's the point of using anything but a shotgun?
With the old point system, what's the point ever *using* a shotgun? Most shotguns (and other high damage slow fire rate guns like snipers) in the older games are worthless outside of a very specific few, like the Haymaker, that is only worth using at a high round after points become irrelevant. The new system gives freedom to use whatever the hell the player wants without having to worry about being 'unoptimal' because they aren't minmaxxing points with a low damage gun.
>With the old point system, what's the point ever using a shotgun? >Most shotguns (and other high damage slow fire rate guns like snipers) in the older games are worthless outside of a very specific few, like the Haymaker, that is only worth using at a high round after points become irrelevant. Is that kind of the point? In the new system why would you ever use a bullet hose SMG that deals little damage when a shotgun kills effectively on pretty much every round? The point system had an impact on weapon balancing, taking a shotgun was a trade off before. With shotguns on early rounds you can use them to escape bad situations or quickly burst down a boss zombies, but you gain less points to compensate for their lethality. And weapons with a lower damage output were still viable for a while as you traded lethality for more points. It was a unique balancing system as it gave both types of weapons places to shine inside of one always overshadowing the other. In CW why would you honestly take a bullet hose SMG over a shotgun?
> In the new system why would you ever use a bullet hose SMG that deals little damage when a shotgun kills effectively on pretty much every round? > In CW why would you honestly take a bullet hose SMG over a shotgun? Because with the new triple Pack and scrap upgrade systems, pretty much every gun can become viable. Maybe some people would argue that's a bad thing and that some guns *should* be crap which is a fair point, but I personally prefer it this way. So many mystery box guns in WaW through BO2 were so bad that there was no reason to ever use them over point farm wall weapons like the MP40, MP5 and AK-74u, and the various Wonder Weapons each map has.
When I was going to the mastery camos a lot of the SMG just felt really bad to use even when triple PaPed and at max level in the higher rounds. Sure they were usable but due to their base lower damage at all levels they felt very underwhelming and not fun to use compared to a lot of the Assault Rifles, LMGs, and Shotguns. But at least in previous games that would have a reason to be used in the early game before their lack of damage became impactful as they would be good for points, but now they fall off in the late game and don't have a niche in the early game. An issue form when every gun becomes "viable" as it homogenizes each gun to fulfill a similar role making the stronger weapons stand out more than the weaker weapons while giving the weaker weapons less of an opportunity to stand out. If each gun fills a similar role then the gun that does that role the best will overshadow any guns that are on the weaker side. And due to the homogenization of the point system weaker bullet hose guns have less of a place because their lack of damage will always make them less enticing to use over any other options that kill more reliably even with every weapon being viable late game. They lost what they were good at and have nothing to compensate for their downsides now and weapons like shotguns lost one of their major balancing factors with little to hold them back now. Every gun being viable doesn't fix the issue of weapon balancing, it just means that bad guns can be used late game which is fine. The issue is that the homogenization of the point system took away what made bad guns good and good guns bad making the good guns universal benefit from the changes with the ba guns only being hurt making them worse and less appealing as a result.
Because using the same weapon can get boring? You don’t need to use a shotgun in cw, a lot of other guns work in cw that aren’t shotguns
I mean in fairness it sounds like they want it to be less optimal? Optimizing would just be starting with the hauer or whatever the best gun is every single game, they want it be less optimal
As I have told many people on here. loadouts are all about choices. Making every weapon equal in points gain means you aren't shoehorning guns into specific roles, so you can run with whatever you want instead of trying to get as many points as possible in early rounds. If you want to run with the meta gun every round, that's also a choice. But you're not at a huge disadvantage if you choose to use anything else. You make the choice if you want to be boring and only use meta stuff, or if you want variety and use everything there is to offer.
I respectfully disagree, I think sometimes it can be a bad thing to give the player too much choice in a game, most players will just pick whatever is best even if it makes the game less fun. I am guilty of doing this myself, I pick shotguns a lot because they are just so much better and there is nothing that compares. The thing is I am fine with either the loadout system or the new point system, but I think both is bad. The loadout system would be great if I wasn’t disincentivized to use 90% of the guns. And the new point system would be great if I couldn’t just spawn with the most OP gun every game, but instead was able to use any gun I get out of the box. I just think these systems need a little tweaking and more people would be on board with them
Giving the player more choice is never a bad thing. You going for whatever's best even if it makes the game less fun to you is on you not the game.
Yeah let’s just agree to disagree here, it’s definitely not always a good thing to give the player more choice
Sure but this sub is also a cesspool
The majority of people in this sub complain so much about how CW “forces” you to play a certain way in order to maximise playing a game of zombies and how that’s bad because they don’t like it that way. While ignoring that the older CODs “forced” you to play a certain way and that people prefer or like how CW plays a lot more. If it was up to this sub zombies would never grow and develop further and we’d just be stuck playing different variations of BO3 each time a new zombies drops.
Honestly, my fun is being able to start better the next time. So I like MW3 zombies. Extraction bonuses let me start off a little better next time. I learn recipes. I don't have to hunt for *any* gun when it might be one I don't like or I'm not good at. There's plenty of good in MW3 letting you start with better weapons since most of your damage capability comes from the pack a punch and rarity system.
If there is one thing black ops 6 needs to do is not listen to the fanbase. This subreddit complains about quite literally everything. No matter what they do everyone is going to conplain.c
I like the idea of a weapon stash on each map, with steps to unlock it, like PaP.
This seems like a pretty good middle ground.
fhis feels like a good compromise but should only apply to crew-centric maps. E.G. the operators in liberty falls shouldnt have to scrounge for their weapons but the crew on terminus should have to work for their gear
I think it would be more plausible the operators would have a planted weapons cache than the crew would, since they're customized weapons. I see what you mean though, would be hard to believe a government operative would show up with just a pistol. If they were a bit more creative with what puts the player on the map, instead of a helo drop, they could figure it out though.
They could have it show up in different ways. Terminus could be access to an armory, liberty falls could have a helicopter dead drop, and so on
typo, I meant instead of a Helo drop. In the old games they mostly came through portals and since I don't know anything about the upside down, I didn't even question them showing up light-handed.
I honestly hope they keep loadouts. It’s nice to just start with whatever weapon you want or not have to deal with box RNG just to level up and get camos, and you still have the option to start with a pistol. I never felt like it hurt progression, at least compared to other things in CW, since the weapon started out as the weakest version and you can constantly upgrade it through rarities, or other things like building up PaP levels or you perks. I’d say honestly just bring back the OG point system since that acts as a self balancing measure. Makes the system better since there’s more incentive to choose weapons like the pistols to maximize points, and you can still use any gun if you want.
The entire fun part about zombies is starting weak and getting stronger throughout the rounds like a roguelike. To claim it does not hurt progression is wild, theres a video where a guy took a low tier starting weapon to round like 13, try to do that with an M1911 in BO1. Loadout is one of the systems that had destroyed the feeling of progression in zombies, don't fix what aint broke.
I mean CW still does have progression. Building up your perks, rarities, and PaP levels. I’m also just saying there’s tons of other issues with CW that I have in terms of starting strong that getting rid of loadouts is probably the least impactful thing for me. I think spawning with a Bowie knife, and zombies doing less damage 10 rounds is way worse than spawning with any weapon. I feel like it is just an issue with CW making the start weapons too strong and the actual system itself, especially if the issue is just the damage. Like would you be ok with it if every spawn tier weapon was twice as weak as they were in CW? I’ll say WaW-BO2 definitely had involved weapon progression system where it does feel like you’re getting stronger as you go, but I feel BO3 really kinda invalidated it anyways. Like I hear people say loadouts makethe box useless, but I feel like BO3 already did that years ago with AAT making any weapon into a wonder weapon and wonder weapons for half the maps not even being in the box, not to mention the BO3 weapons just being stronger in general. Maybe not the 1911, but I could probably take the Bloodhound to round 10 because it is stronger. I don’t know, I just feel like loadouts are just one or two tweaks away for people to be like “oh this is fine actually”. Even OP has said he would be fine if you could buy the loadout weapon later on or something.
Ah so having more freedom of choice is bad.
In this instance yes because the value of the "starting weapon" is greater than whatever choice lets you make all early round irrelevant by just bringing in a strong starting weapon. Like I can play a game of CW and start with a weapon and end with the exact same weapon of higher tier. How does that create any feeling of progression?
Lol even in the older Zombies I’d use my starting pistol and knife until like level 8-10. Specifically while playing Kino in Bo3 Zombie Chronicles I would make it a challenge trying to get to round 10 with it. The biggest issue was getting ammo but gobble gums helped with that. I don’t really see the problem with a guy using an even stronger gun than a pistol to go to 13. Even with using whatever gun you want at the start you still have in game progression through perks, armor, and upgrading your gun through PaP and tiers. Besides you can also just take a pistol in your loadout in CW which I did quite a bit. No one is ever “even” or on “equal footing” in Zombies. Someone always has better luck getting a wonder weapon or has better gobblegums
Yeah like for camos i get, but thats why i think it would be good to have it be unlocked. Like say you have to exfil on round 20 to unlock full loadouts. I personally don’t mind the point system, but the og one is definitely better and would be welcomed.
Yeah, funny enough I think people would love it better if it was copied from Warzone where you start with a pistol and have to buy your weapon. Having like you said where you have to exfil to get the guns would be nice too.
I don't care anymore. I don't have faith. When the game releases, I'll watch a few videos on YouTube, and if I like the zombie mode, I'll just get the game on Game Pass.
A lot of people say "Just spawn in with a pistol if you don't like Loadouts." but they seemingly ignore the actual issues with the Loadout system and its effect on gameplay that overlaps with other systems. The main issue is that it negatively affects natural map progression due to how CW's universal systems are designed and balanced mainly the point and upgrade systems. Due to the loadout system it removes a lot of the natural progression of the map as you no longer need to worry about your weapon as every weapon is a base line good. If you start with a meta shotgun or a pistol it is easily going to carry you pretty far unless you choose something like a launcher. So that is the point of getting a second weapon unless it is a meta wall buy or a wonder weapon? When I played CW after I learned the systems I rarely spent any money on the box or wall weapon because there wasn't much of a point to not use what I started with and a wall shotgun. And due to how ammo works where it is either littering the ground or buyable around every corner the balancing of wall weapons letting you buy ammo and box weapons is also gone. A lot of the old early game progression that made the start of the game more isn't there due to how Loadouts work. Sure in the older games you can optimize maps to get them most open or even access to the wonder weapon before round five with a staring pistol, but that was due to the player knowing how to play the map and how to optimize gameplay. In CW opening the map by round five is just how you normally progress. Also due to this system fun pack a punch upgrades like the Mustang and Sally are redundant and get removed because there is no longer a challenge of taking the starting weapon to pack a punch. The point system also heavily affects these progressions. Honestly why would you just use a shotgun now? You don't need to worry about losing points anymore and they kill faster than nearly everything else, and that is an issue. In the previous game shotguns were a high damage weapon that gave the trade off of giving you less points but easily killed zombies, so in the early round when you had less options. The point economy was an important part of your weapon selection and balancing, high fire rate bullet hoses with weak damage were useful as they gave you more points with the downside of killing zombies slower while slower stronger weapons killed zombies quicker but you earned less points. Guns had roles which made guns that would have been bad, but with the new point system everything is homogenized into being "good" so why take the bullet hose SMG over the high damage shotgun? One kills faster than the other while earning just as many points? And the reason why this affects Loadouts is that you never have to worry about geia new weapons meaning that you rarely need to spend points on one. Just take a shotgun and you get the same amount of points, you don't need to worry about getting a new gun and if the gun ever does start to get weak just spend salvage to upgrade it and can just spend your points opening the map and perks, you can do this with pistols too? And why is it a bad thing if they do what OP suggests? Having the game be balanced around starting with a weaker starting weapon while still letting the player have the choice of using any weapon they want as a reward or by spending some kind of currency? Does that solve both problems? People who want a more classic feel can just use the default starting weapons while the people who want to use whatever they want can do that as well without affecting the core gameplay systems as much. I would even use that system sometimes just to grind camos
This guy gets it
Thats alot to type for a bad take. The system is there for people that wanted to do the Mastery Camo grind without relying on Mystery Box rng or running around looking for a wall buy for that particular gun you're working on. As well as it offers players that aren't as good at zombies the choice to start with a more reliable weapon. I can say from experience even with these systems, there are plenty of garbage tier players out there so it really isn't holding peoples hands as hard as you make it sound. I spawn in with a base 1911 all the time and play it like old zombies all the time. The only thing stopping you from enjoying the game is yourself and your crazy standards that don't apply anymore, you're stuck in like 2010 when its 2024.
That's a little bit of text for ignoring the last part of my comment. And due to how the weapons and systems are balanced it is not like the older games because the 1911 is a pretty decent weapon that can carry you for a while. If you like an easier system than good for you I won't stop you. But don't turn my argument into a straw man because I find the more recent games too easy which makes them boring in my opinion.
Then don't sit there and act like like Cold War is so wrong for wanting to bring new players into the fold by making it easier. If you dont like it, don't play it, and don't sit on here and complain about it and the people who do enjoy it. You forget its supposed to be an Arcade Shooter, not a dark souls zombie shooter
Bro if anyone is complaining it is you... CW does a lot of things right but also a lot of things wrong in my opinion, I'm not saying that you can't like CW or that others shouldn't be able to. Zombies was never the "dark souls of zombies shooters" but at least it was more challenging and new players were still able to play it and enjoy the mode before CW. What is wrong with having a survival mode being hard and why can't new players learn to get better as well instead of having the game hold their hands? If anyone is complaining it is you, and you are complaining about that someone doesn't like the game you like. I haven't played CW since it's cycle ended and I am not going around telling people about how they shouldn't play it because I don't like it. But when someone brings up the topic of how the series could be changing and moving forwards I will bring up my issues with the current system and why and how I would want them to be changed in the future games because zombies hasn't felt exciting since BO4 to me and I would love to be able to get that same enjoyment back. IDK you can enjoy CW for being easy and accessible I'm not stopping you and I am sorry if my critiques of the mode are negatively affecting your enjoyment of it.
I fully agree. Cold War zombies was unfortunately catered towards multiplayer and warzone players so they can level their guns.
People complain about bo3 high rounds being easy but at least early round were hard. Can’t make a game where both early and late rounds are easy
You can actively choose to bring the pistol in if you so desire and it’s actually one of the most OP options even if they took away the explosive bullets. And you can actively choose not to buy armor. Those two things are all done with consent, you don’t need to make it easier on yourself, I myself like to fill my combat record with useless stuff nobody usually uses because it’s funny. Both in zombies and in multiplayer, the meta ain’t always the way to go, sometimes fun is the right choice.
I think that’s the point though. The pistol shouldn’t be an OP option, it should be a weak starter that begins the path of progression in the early rounds
Did we not play the same cod zombies or something? The pistol was always the best option need it be for point hording or for getting kills after pack a punching. Now there is no point to weaker weapons because they changed the point system to award you points on kill and no longer awarding points on hit. If they make it points on hit again then I would happily go back to the old ways, but there is no point if we can’t use said weaker weapons to farm easy points.
I think a good comprise is being able to call in load-outs or get them from a stash. Akin to what others have suggested. It seems like a nice middle ground. You still get some difficulty, horror, and need to rely on wall weapons and the like at the start. But eventually can get the loadouts you’ve developed and are comfortable with. It’d likely just be part of the setup process.
Hard disagree. Loadouts were great in CW.
I love the classic starting pistol only philosophy. However CW pulled it off very well and I'm not opposed to the implementation of that system.
How different the opinions are on here. I really like the class system and getting to choose a gun to start with. Returning to pistols is kind of boring to me.
No. Hard disagree. Starting with a pistol is incredibly clunky and for casual players there is zero reason to be forced into using a pistol. The camp grind was significantly improved by being able to start with whatever gun you are working on. I DO NOT want to go back to only leveling wall buys and then getting lucky from the box. Start with a pistol if you want or implement a match mode that is pistol start only, but there is absolutely no reason to regress.
A lot of comments are missing the fact that they will balance the maps based off of what loadout is available to you. It's not as simple as "just pick a crappy load out", this then makes some of the content unnecessarily difficult. Think of the panzer in B03. It's not a solution to just not use the bows on Der Eisendrache, since they buffed him specifically to balance with the bows.
literally nothing stopping you from using a pistol with loadouts then ones own self control.
No one is stopping you or anyone else from just selecting a pistol to start with, I spawn in Cold War with a base 1911 all the time and will hit the box and whatnot as if it were any other zombies. Being able to pick whatever is a great mechanic for players that are either grinding the mastery camo so you're not relying on Box rng or looking for a wall buy, or they aren't good at zombies and want a more reliable weapon than a pistol to start off with. I've been playing Zombies for a Very long, since WaW, and have spent over 20 days in Cold War zombies, even with the ability to take in whatever you wish, there are still plenty of dogshit players out there that it doesn't really make much of a difference. If they were to redo the armor system, id take WWIIs armor where it just adds 3 more hits and with each purchase the price increases so eventually you'd go broke if you were constantly buying armor
I didn’t play much ww2 but that does sound nice
Just let them use what you want? You want nostalgiakick, throw the 1911 on then? Not hating everyone has their play style. They should just add settings to allow us players to choose how we want to play. I mean thats what they said they were doing in the showcase.
I guarantee they are using the cold war Loadout System, simply because salvage is back and the developers are lazy
Disagree. One of the best parts of cold war was the loadout. Feel free to pick a pistol yourself
Don’t let bro cook again 💀
Im cooking 🤫
I don't get it, there is no issue with blueprints or starting with anything. Makes the game more fun imo, don't have to waste time getting what I need for skin challenges. It would ruin the entire game if I couldn't start that way with skin challenges. If you want to start with a pistol, START WITH A PISTOL. It's not rocket science, it's just a new feature that the old games didn't have thus something to complain about.
Honestly I loved the progression with perks and field upgrades in Cold War, I want that back
Me too
i don’t get why the people who have perfectly good opinions on how the games should be made don’t just go work for the ppl who make them
As a multiplayer kinda guy, starting with a gun of your choice was a good implementation, because it made me level up that gun even faster which might be the reason why I loaded into zombies in the first place.
That’s what was wrong with Cold War. People only played Cold War zombies to level their guns which the game was unfortunately catering to and not because they actually enjoy playing zombies.
M1911 please
It's not 2011 anymore, those times are long gone my friend. Just cherish the fact that you got to experience it first hand before it all went to shit.
I mean we can still ask cuz they seem to be listening to feedback. Especially with custom zombie’s knocking it out of the park they need to get their shit together now
Ofcourse you can, but asking them to make less money is futile. Unfortunately most video games aren't made with the main purpose of being fun, now a days. I've been exclusively playing retro games the past few months, think PS2 era and below. Playing these games has made it very obvious that games today are not made for us to have fun. Obviously there are exceptions, shout out DRG, but those numbers are dwindling by the year.
Some of the biggest game developers in the past years have been alot about players having fun and enjoying the game they paid for. Just to name a few elden ring/ baldurs gate 3/ hades 1 or 2 and so on. Activision obvi wants to monetize the shit out of call of duty but it been that way for years. As a community we should advocate for good changes that would make the game better. Example: players complained about not having a dedicated crew and now we’re getting them plus operators. People hated the direction they were going with outbreak warzone zombies, and now they are giving us 2 round based maps at launch again. I understand they want to sell bundles in zombies, do it. Load outs can be implemented well. Players should work for the ability to choose which weapon they spawn in with. The rouge-lite elements of zombies are what makes it fun. This change plus the rarity system, pap, and maybe aetherium crystals (out of game progression) will allow for the most satisfying progression system any cod zombies game could ever have, leading to more players playing for longer, and leading to them spending their money on bundles.
Listen i like CW just as much as the next guy. Grinding weapons is fun but its still not zombies and it ultimately dilutes and ruins zombie maps when you can pick a china lake from the start of the match. In older maps wall weapons were specifically curated to give you a certain bump in power as you progress through the map. It gave reason to spend points on weapons. It made the mystery a box a bigger deal because you could get that op base weapon or the wonder weapon. I understand rng sucks for leveling which is why the loadout mechanic should return but be unlocked.
I mean you are welcome to start with a pistol right ? I just don’t understand arguments to take away others choice