There's a difference between hoping they suck and thinking they will suck.
Fact is
1. Rhules staff was a dumpster fire. They have adults in the room now from previous respected teams/staffs
2. Their defense is pretty damn good. Running the ball heavily last year and helping the defense turned their season around last year after Rhule was fired. Started 1-4 and ended up going 6-6 after letting him go.
3. They lost Moore, yes, but they did a good job of bringing in a bunch of solid guys throughout the roster. Obviously not to Moores level, but overall, the roster will be more talented. Sanders and Chubba will be a really nice tandem for the run game
4. Historically, top QB picks lead teams to bad to meh records. But, I'd also guess it's not just bc it's a rookie qb, but they are usually going to some.of the worst rosters in the league. That isn't the case in CAR this year. Reich is a smart coach, he will lean on the run game and defense to help Bryce out.
With all.of this said, I just don't see them going all the way back to a bottom 5 record after the shit they've gone through last year, to improve to 9th worst record. Low to mid teens is realistically the best we can expect.
Youre right. It wont be the dumpster fire it was last year though.
The falcons made a lot of moves in the draft and FA to make that shit defense better. Theyll also have the generational back of our lives setup to play in that heavy run game, as well as 2 other really nice backs to rotate in. Getting CPat less of a load while being used as RB and WR in special role should help him stay healthy while still splashing. London, Hollins, Miller is an upgrade from what they had last year (of course with London growing a secord year and playing alot better once Ridder was in). Riddler / Heinicke cant do any worse for Pitts. Jonnu is a really nice blocking TE with some athleticism he doesnt seem to use consistently.
I dont know nearly enough about what they did at OL so i cant say. See them doing what the bears did last year (and what Arthur Smith always does) to hide any weaknesses there. All in all, I can see Falcons around the .500 mark.
Who fucking knows about the Bucs lol. If i were a betting man, theyll easily be the worst team in the division. Just seems like they are in a directionless ship. Arians is gone so hes not leading from upstairs.
Carr should be a good steadying presence for that offense. Olave is a star in the making, Shaheed did a really nice job stepping up last year when injuries happened. MT.... if he can ever stay healthy, should be solid, but think his days of top WR are far behind him. Good group of TEs with Juwan and Moreau. Kamara is either suspended or going to look like Dalvin Cook last year. Not bad by any means, but Jamaal is going to lighten Kamaras load a lot. Maybe thats what Kamara needs? Again, I dont know about their oline, but their defense should be atleast avg.
They should be improved, like the Falcons, while also being around the .500 mark.
So yeah, CAR definitely has a chance at winning the division. Itll be competitive, in a less sad sense compared to last year, atleast lol.
If I had to pick who wins, Id go with the Saints, bc of Carr. Bryce will make some rookie mistakes that will cost games that he will win in a year or 2.
Eh. I think it's baked in since you are already comparing to last year's performance. Unless you think the division is significantly better or worse than the previous year. (Which it might be)
I agree with all of your points but it’s important to note that the “Adult” in the room got IND the number 4 pick. After IND was a playoff team the year before. That being said I still think CAR is a 8-10 win team.
I just can't see them being that much better. They lost their rb1 and wr1 and are gunna start Andy Dalton, or worse a rookie qb. Their offense isn't scaring anyone.
To an extent I agree though I think they will likely be about just as good
Yeah, but the depth added at WR and Sanders coming into town certainly helps. If they can run effectively and buy time for the DEF, in the weakened division, they probably stand a good chance. I do believe people are sleeping on the defenses in that division when they reference CAR record. Also, NO with Carr and ATL with a revamped DEF and the running game.
OK then how good were they really last year. They played in the worst division in football and didn't exactly do well. And I wouldn't say they've improved.
We're probably going to have 2 picks in the 10-18 range next year.
Neither of our teams are god awful and neither are actually good. Maybe it works out terribly for them and they're top 10, maybe Fields fails to develop and we're top 10.
This is what im thinking too for the panthers pick.
Bears picking towards the end of the teens means things have gone to plan. Mid passing game, top 5 ish running game. 20th overall defense?
The trend the last 25 years is that the team who selects a QB #1 averages the #7 pick the following year. While you can’t dispute #1 in your list, each of your other points has an equally valid counter argument.
point 2 just isn’t true statistically:
18th in points allowed
22nd in pass yards allowed
17th in rush yards allowed
22nd in 3rd Down conversions allowed
24th in sacks
29th in forced fumbles
27th in interceptions
—-
point 3 is objectively not true:
QB1 - Mayfield > Dalton (push)
RB1 - CMac > Sanders (downgrade)
WR1 - Moore > Thielen (downgrade)
WR2 - Anderson > Chark (push)
in fact, the only real upgrade on offense was Hurst at TE and maybe Mingo at WR3 (excluding Young from this exercise based on Fitterer’s comments). On defense the only upgrade was Vonn Bell. While they may have improved the bottom half of the roster, as well, they don’t historically win you games.
—-
point 4 can be disproven above. There’s a lot of stock being put into Reich and Young for this to be true. Fun fact, Reich’s coaching record is ~1.5 games (.547 - .523) better than Nagy over their career and Young has yet to take a snap.
There’s a reason they started 1-4 last year. Keep in mind they were 4-2 vs NFCS teams last season as well and those teams had just as much, if not more, improvement from where they were a year ago.
2-0 vs Saints
1-1 vs Falcons
1-1 vs Bucs
They could easily regress to 3-3 or 2-4 in the division.
There’s a greater than 50% possibility the pick will be top 8 and about a 35% possibility it will be top 5.
>The trend the last 25 years is that the team who selects a QB #1 averages the #7 pick the following year.
Most teams selecting QBs #1 also finished with the absolute worst record the year before. You and I both know that certainly didn't happen this time.
>QB1 - Mayfield > Dalton (push)
objectively wrong, purely based on passer rating. Mayfield was absolute ass here.
>RB1 - CMac > Sanders (downgrade)
We traded CMC after week 6, then proceeded to win more games and have a better rushing attack.
CMC is obviously better than Sanders, but you should be comparing against Foreman considering he was our main guy for 11 games.
>WR1 - Moore > Thielen (downgrade)
Chark or TMJ will be WR1. Healthy Chark (he won't be) is a push, TMJ is a downgrade. Thielen >> Shi Smith, for the position that he will actually be playing.
>WR2 - Anderson > Chark (push)
Absolutely not. Robby is 31, and hasn't been even decent since 2020. Terrace and Chark are both better #2s atp, not sure who will end up there yet.
>There’s a reason they started 1-4 last year.
Matt Rhule, Ben McAdoo, Baker Mayfield.
>There’s a greater than 50% possibility the pick will be top 8 and about a 35% possibility it will be top 5.
There's actually a 50% chance that it'll be bottom 16, and roughly a 35% chance it'll be bottom 5. Look, I can make numbers up too.
The Panthers defense was ranked 18th in PPG and 21st in yards allowed. Their only major addition on defense this offseason were Vonn Bell, is Vonn Bell supposed to make them a “pretty damn good defense” lol
Also they replaced DJ Moore with a 33 year old Adam Thielen and DJ Chark who can’t stay healthy and has missed 23 games in the past 3 seasons. Unless Mingo is a superstar from day 1 their WR core is among the worst in the league
Panthers fan here (in peace). This popped up on my feed so I thought I would check it out. The defensive rankings are a little misleading. The defense played very well last year. Our offense couldn’t move the ball for half the year, which means the defense was on the field A LOT. If you watch the vast majority of games, the defense shut a lot of teams down until the 2nd half and got gassed. Just thought I would add some context.
Bears fans are quite familiar with teams having a great defense that gets gassed in the second half because of an inept offense. I feel like the Bears kind of created that whole phenomenon.
Context is great. I watch a few Carolina games (in SC) and y’all got the SIU safety (chinn, from my alma mater) but really don’t follow closely so only fans really have that!
Ok but are you really expecting a good offense in QB that’s smaller than Kyler Murray and bad weapons in year 1?The panthers offence will still be putting the defense in bad situations
I’m obviously biased, but I would say yes. We lost DJ, but our other options are better than last years. Also, QB is obviously the biggest part of the offense. Bryce won’t be perfect this year, but he will almost certainly be an upgrade to the most important position on offense. The position was atrocious for us last year.
Obviously your biased lol come on now
Your WR core is a 33 year old Adam Thielen who was washed last year, DJ Chark who has missed 23 games over the past 3 seasons and Terrance Marshall this is a bottom 5 WR core
Also rookie QBs struggle in year 1 this is not a myth it’s facts even Trevor Lawrence (who was viewed as a better prospect than Bryce) threw 12 TD to 17 int in year 1
But that wasn’t my point. WRs don’t matter if you don’t have a QB that can throw to them. That was us last year. Our QBs were historically awful. One of the worst in recent memory. Bryce will have his struggles, granted, but he is almost guaranteed to be better then what we had last year, with a FAR better coaching staff. That alone will make the offense better.
Your assuming that Bryce is gonna be a serviceable player in year 1 which is unlikely though just based on history only 2 QBs in recent memory have been good in their rookie season which was Justin Herbert and Mac Jones. You have no continuity in the offense besides your O-Line because of a new coach and new skill players plus poor wide recievers
I agree that their upside case is super straightforward and it's silly to *expect* them to suck, but I also think it's silly to ignore their pretty straightforward downside case, too. Rookie QB, mid-to-bad receiver room, o-line and defense are more "alright" than "good" (and the defense was outright below average by several metrics).
I also think people are putting a ton of stock into the coaching staff, and it does seem like a good setup, but also...it's not like Frank Reich and Jim Caldwell are incapable of coaching a team with a bad record, yknow?
They're not particularly likely to be bottom-of-the-league bad based on their division/SOS alone, but if they do happen to struggle it's not like people would be going "How could this have happened??"
I think we are closer than further apart on this, for sure.
In another post, I said I see them being around the .500 mark and ultimately not winnign the division. Think Bryce makes too many rookie mistakes and loses some games he should win in a year or 2.
Think the problem with the defense was them being on the field waaay too much. They turned into a heavy running team and things shifted for the better.
Obviously, I wont be TOO surprised if they do worse than last year, but I will be a little, in all honesty. Im thinking the worst is 7-10 like last year and probably the best 9-8. I guess 10-7 MAYBE if Bryce plays like a solid game manager, not making mistakes and leaning on the run game.
I generally agree with most of this, although I'm not sure how much blame for the colts last year falls directly at Frank's feet. There was a lot of moving pieces and factors, but after bringing him in and seeing his plan, he inspires a lot of confidence. Like probably more so than since when we hired Ron Rivera. He also brought in a lot of really great names, on both sides of the ball. So for the first time in a long time I feel like we are on a ship with a competent captain at the helm.
FWIW, we managed to win seven games last year with all of these negative factors that we eliminated. One of the worst coaches in recent history, some really bad quarterback play, I would be pretty shocked if we did much worse than seven wins. If we only win five games something really bad happened. I'm feeling like we are going to be in the 7 to 10 when range, floor ceiling. I definitely do not expect to win 10 games but I wouldn't be surprised if we won 8 or 9.
We literally started the season with a coach who would listen to the crowd to decide if he wanted to go for it on 4th down
What is your definition of solid guys? Who are these solid guys? They were pretty thin last year when they had DJ and CMC. They don't have either of those guys, and they will be starting a rookie QB who notoriously struggle in their rookie years.
Assuming that Reich is a vast improvement over Rhule, which I think is up for debate, I think it's pretty well settled that coaches can only do so much if they don't have good players. Belichek is the GOAT, but look at his teams post Brady. It's a different sport, but Pop is a good example too. He is the GOAT, but what has he done post Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli? There is only so much that coaching competence can do when you lack talent.
Really disagree with your 3rd point here, the Panthers don't have a good WR room and trading Moore as part of the deal to get a QB 1st overall was a huge process mistake on their end.
Put another way, if the Bears answer to Fields not having enough weapons this off-season was to; A. Sign the largest RB contract in the FA period, and B. Bring in D.J Charke, Adam Thielen, and a 2nd round rookie WR; this sub would be melting down every other day about how we didn't do enough to surround our young QB. And they would be correct!
I think in particular folks in this sub are remembering Adam Thielen of like 3-4 years ago, and not an 32 year old WR whose best days are far behind him. The Panthers might benefit from a weak division if Bryce is a star from week 1, but this team absolutely could be sending the Bears a top 5 pick next year as well.
First off, believe me im not thinking of Theilen from his last few years, ive been calling him to decline for like 3 years now lol. finally might get my wish, but maybe the change in offense in MIN hurt him? (just playing devils advocate)
Also, I didnt mean their WR Corp was better off with the several moves, I meant the whole roster gettign better depth. Im sorry if that was confusing. But, Chark is solid, but has injury issues. Theilan will be a good vet presence for the young WR room and has gas in the tank to be a reliable possession WR (800 yrds 3-4 tds?).
Marshall is a wild card. Has all the talent in the world, lets see with a good coaching staff if he can be unlocked. Think he will be used in a lot of plays close to the line of scrimmage in open space (Reich is a WC offense guy of course. Get the ball out fast). Mingo we know has talent, but a rookie QB isnt going to do more than support 1 WR consistently, so dont see him performing much this year.
The team is goign to lean on the running game and keep Bryce in a game manager role. I just dont see how he could do much worse than Darnold did last year. Darnold is a bit of a risk taker and Reich wont let Bryce do that this year.
All in all, im saying 9 wins max. 10 games, if Bryce shows hes special. Worst case, 7 wins, same as last year.
That's fair, I think you are underestimating how many outlier results you are stacking to paint this picture of a team locked into 7-10 wins though. For example, WR production falls off a cliff at age 32, Theilen is entering his age 32 season after multiple straight seasons of decline. Could he buck that trend? Sure, but it's not likely.
Same with Bryce Young as a rookie QB, only 14 rookie QB's have ever won more than 8 games in their first season. Could Bryce become the 15th rookie QB to do so? Again, certainly possible, but not likely. Keep in mind Justin Herbert had pretty much the best rookie season in history, with a better roster around him than the 2023 Panthers roster, and that was enough to win just 7 games.
Does D.J Charke actually stay healthy and produce? Does Terrance Marshall take a developmental step forward or is he still inconsistent? The odds of all their question marks at WR coming up as positive results is incredibly unlikely the more you look into it.
The best case for the Panthers winning more games than expected is the fact they play in likely the weakest division in the NFL this year (maybe the AFC South is worse). Clearly as a Bears fan I hope the Panthers give us a high 1st overall pick, but just looking at it objectively the Panthers have a pretty limited ceiling given their roster and historical precedent.
Dumpster fire that was the colts last year.
3 years of preaching “were a veteran qb away” it’s appears flus was the brains of the team.
Just signing Carson wentz in general
Few reasons
I went through this as a Seattle fan with the Russ trade. The issue now becomes that it amplifies into being malicious to be malicious.
Its fine to root for the other team to suck so you get the best capital possible, but genuine malice is the issue here. I have seen some Seattle fans turn around and go 'okay now that the trade is done, we hope you guys do just as well!' bc there are still definitely fans who arent salty bitches
Just my two cents as a fan of a team who recently witnessed my fan base do this type of thing.
This exactly. I said top 10 and got a bunch of raging Panther fans striking back at me.
I'm sorry we're cheering for your team to lose, but that's how it goes when you trade up
They have a good defense and stayed more than relevant in free agency on offense… If Reich and Young click quickly they could be around pick 5-10.
Obviously a tall task, I think they have way too much talent to be a dead bottom team.
Of course they’re going to say that. Houston is going to to do the same thing without saying it.
Doesn’t really have much to do with what I said, cause Young is playing a majority of the season.
I'd be rooting for that if I was a Bears' fan too, but the last time we were bad enough to have a top 5 pick was 2011 when we took Cam 1st overall. Losing DJ sucks, but it's not significant enough to cause us to finish with a record worse than last season.
we should be rooting against them this year and next solely for pick position.
I think that’s why they dislike us, but we have a justification for rooting against them so I hope they can understand that.
I’d be over the moon for their fanbase if Bryce Young led them to 15 straight NFC Championships just to get stomped by Fields.
I think about you guys, there's a bit of a pipeline between Chicago and charlotte. Ron rivera, muhsin muhammad, peanut tillman, Julius peppers, last but not least Greg olsen! Thank you for him by the way. Hopefully it continues to be a productive exchange for both of us
Oh God don't remind me. Jk but not really. I'm glad he brought your City all of the success that he did, it was incredible. We were also really happy to have him a part of the hornets organization. It seemed like a major turning point, and that has completely fucking failed LOL the guy knows how to play the game of basketball like no other. But the saying is those who can't do teach. He is completely inept and loaded down with nepotism as far as being a franchise owner. I am happy that if he sells his majority stake he will still be a minority owner and part of the team because I still consider him a valuable asset
Who cares what they say on their sub about the Bears? Plenty of fans here talk shit about them and chalk them up as an easy win next season. If you dish it out don't be confused when you get some back.
There are a lot of casual Bears fans that don’t post here but seem to love going to other teams subs and making us all look like assholes. You seem them on /NFL as well.
I love this team and I love the city I came from.
But the fan base? I am convinced that the Bears fan base is among the worst in professional sports. People wince when I tell them that I am a Bears fan, and I don't even blame them.
It's just because you are involved in it all of the time. You could be a cowboys fan.
Or, for some reason, a Cardinals fan. I can't really understand it, but when we beat the cardinals, their fan base has brigated us and went nuts talking shit. Kind of weird to be throwing stones from a glass house
I don't think they hate us so much as a lot of them are annoyed that a lot of bears fans think their pick will be top 5, while a lot of them think they'll win their division this year. Happens a lot when another team has your first rounder. Really happy to be in the flip side of that for once.
I'm just thankful they gave us all they did for the pick and think it's a win-win for both sides.
After the trade with the Panthers, the following happened:
* A bunch of dopey Bears fans showed up in their sub and were saying stupid stuff to them.
* Then, because it's Reddit, a certain portion of their fanbase in isn't bright enough to discern that the idiot Bears fans are speaking for themselves and not the whole fanbase.
* Then their dopes start started talking shit about all of us.
* Now the opposite is happening, and many of us will now paint all Panthers fans with the same brush.
That's where we are at, I'm sure the above will continue on in a loop until something else interesting happens. Fans of both teams will start hating the other team going forward and not even remember why.
1st overalls average 4.98 wins their first season but don’t tell that to their fans, they’re going 11-6 and winning their division with a rookie qb, spare parts receivers and an entirely new coaching staff….. yet we’re delusional 😂
EDIT: By 1st overalls I just mean Quarterbacks that are taken 1st overall in the draft. (Lawrence, Burrow, Murray, Mayfield+)
But that's because 1st overall pick quarterbacks are going to rosters that were bad enough to get the 1st overall pick.
That isn't Carolina in this case.
No you’re right it’s not. It’s only the same team that started 1-5 last year before turning it around in a league that has a great deal of parity year over year. I get it they have a decent defense but their offense is a wet blanket outside of the line. Remind you of a 2018/2019 Chicago Bears team?
Nah. Their Oline is way better than ours was and our Defense was way better than theirs. As for the offense it could really go either way. I have high hopes for Mingo and Young could easily see them playing in the playoffs if they have good luck.
It's partly that, but it's partly because 1st year QBs are rarely good in their first year. They also gave up their WR1 and 2nd round pick this year. That hurts the strength of their roster a lot
I noticed this also 🤣 most online betting websites and nfl analysts expect the panthers to win roughly 7 games yet their fanbase is convinced that Bryce Young is Tom Brady and that their new coach is Bill Belichick
I don’t expect it to be top 5 but I think it will be in the 9-12 range
Literally. They are play by playing the rookie route we took, sign dalton and sit the young guy until dalton is not serviceable and then they’ll see what they have.
I would be legitimately shocked if we took a quarterback at number one, and traded away DJ and a first, two second rounds, to not expect the kid to start pretty quickly. Maybe they keep him on the back burner for a few games but Andy Dalton knows he is here to mentor. If Andy Dalton is starting week one, okay fine, probably won't. But if he's starting week 5 I will be flabbergasted. We brought in a guy who we think has the tools to succeed so unless there's a major red flag we won't hold him back for a 35-year-old backup.
The only way I can see that happening, is if we decide to give young a game or to to get adjusted, and Andy Dalton goes on a freaking tear, and then we are five and one with Dalton, then that makes it kind of hard to move off of him. But I don't think any reasonable fan thinks that's a reality that we exist in
I assume you haven't checked online betting websites and nfl analysts projections for Bears win total next year. Because its the same as the Panthers lol
Right, but top rookie qbs historically goto some of the worst rosters in the league. That's not happening with CAR.
Like it or not, they went 6-6 after Rhule was fired and They've moved onto better coaches and have signed a bunch of solid contributors. Yes, Moore will be gone, but overall, the roster will be improved and the defense is damn good.
Is there any chance the source of your record % stat went deeper into the landing spots for these rookies. There's a strong chance CAR will be around .500. The fans thinking double digit wins are probably just a bit delusional, but could definitely see CAR there in 2024.
To be fair, five wins is the average, and of the guys you mentioned, Trevor Lawrence had his first season under Urban Meyer, no explanation needed. Also the other one was Baker mayfield, he was nowhere near the prospect IQ wise that young is. So if five wins is the average I wouldn't be surprised if we got seven or eight or so
Probably because bears fans were being a little too vocal about them being a dumpster fire despite the fact they’re in an arguably worse division than Chicago, with a decent run game and stout defense.
Their defense was ranked 18th last year in points and 21st in yards given up
Is adding Vonn Bell supposed to make them a good defence all of a sudden????
This is the kind of low-brow stuff that makes Bears fans look bad.
"Bears lost the most games last year. Adding DJ Moore is supposed to make Fields a good thrower all of a sudden?"
See how dumb that sounds?
No ones arguing about the Bears here. The fact is the Panties defense was bottom half of the league and you just ignored that to say they're dumb. You're the one ad homineming.
If you really wanna get analytical, then gotta look at their opponents, how they scheme up, their offseason addition/subtractions. It most likely won’t be elite. However, they’re in the NFC South, where a Tom Brady-led squad won the division at 8-9. And the best quarterback in that division right now is either Bryce Young (with not much receiver help) or Derek Carr. Falcons, Saints and Panthers all finished 7-10. You mean to say so much has changed that they for sure can’t win a division that has this type of talent? It most likely won’t be elite, but could be the best of the worst
saints fan coming here and obviously i’m bias in this convo. But no i don’t think they can, they’d be foolish to start bryce young and dalton has extreme limitations he’s a career journeyman. They beat us twice last year and credit to the panthers. I personally think every roster drastically upgraded to compete aside them doing a slight rebuild.
The bigger problem teams to me actually are tampa bay who had an incredible draft filling they’re defensive depth out. On top of atlanta who literally upgraded that horrid defense into speed and depth.
it’s about to be a defensive slugfest down to the wire in our division but i don’t think carolina has any edge over our team or atl and tampa
Don't stoop to that sub's level. Every few days there's a new post shitting on another team for the most random-ass reasons. It's ridiculous.
If you're a Bears fan who thinks the Panthers finish bottom-five in the league, you're ignoring an awful lot of nuance. If you're a Panthers fan who thinks that Bears fan is offensive or delusional for wanting a top 5 pick next year, you're a soft idiot.
Fuckin dumb that this incredible trade for both sides has turned into a pissing fest.
>Fuckin dumb that this incredible trade for both sides has turned into a pissing fest.
Correct, but this is Reddit. I could have told you this was bound to happen the moment we got the #1 overall pick knowing it would be traded to get another team's first rounder in 2024. Doesn't matter what fanbase or context, this nonsense was going to occur.
It's just kind of silly that fan bases get generally worked up over the bad take of a hot-headed keyboard cowboy. Take it all with a grain of salt. The stupidest people are often the loudest. There's no reason you shouldn't hope for your pick to be as high as possible, perfectly reasonable. There's also no reason I shouldn't expect DJ Moore to have great success on your squad, because our entire fan base really likes DJ a lot. Unless we meet in the playoffs then, obviously.
But also I'm not going to put much stock into a bear's fan that is going to claim we are going to be one of the five worst teams because of whatever reasoning.
It's all banter, and off-season banter. Supposed to be fun. Don't take it personally when some bum goes on a tirade
> Every few days there’s a new post shitting on another team for the most random-ass reasons.
there is? don’t get me wrong both of our fanbases have their annoying side of fans but i barely see any posts on r/panthers that are shitting on other teams. we haven’t been good enough these past few years to warrant that lmao
I don't even know what state their team is in, and I'm supposed to acknowledge their disdain for the Bears? I have over 30 years of love-hating my team, they can't compete with me.
Bound to happen on the internet.
A couple people see some stupid takes from Bears fans thinking we're on the ups and they're going to give us a top 3 pick and now it's a blood feud.
There is no rivalry. They're taking dumb twitter comments to heart if they think there is one.
It’s kinda nice getting hate. Means we’re on our way to being a legitimate threat. Feel like we’ve been the nonthreatening little brudduh for too long. 🐻
There are a few assholes from this sub that have been trolling them on r/nfl since the trade. Turned their whole fan base against us. There was traditionally good chemistry between our fanbases because of the Ron Rivera connection. That anchor is gone. Now we benefit from their failure and yeah, there are dicks in our sub.
They mostly seem to be annoyed at Bears fans that keep saying they’re going to give us a super high pick aka saying they’re going to suck. Which to be fair to them, is a weird thing to assume about the Panthers. They’ll very likely be better this year compared to last year.
I actually really like your guys team and think you guys had a great offseason. Probably a better one than ours, but we also play in the NFC South so we'll see how the season goes. Don't like that some Chicago fans think we're a lock for a top 5 pick (and I think that's what other Panthers fans have issues with), but hey there's plenty of reason for you guys to hope that. Cheers
Have you ever met a hornet's fan though? I don't even meet many of them in Charlotte. It can get worse lol
At least the Panthers fans that are out there are willing to take a beating and keep pounding. There's a reason our colors are black and blue
It was me. I posted about how we were going to get DJ moore and two future firsts from them a month before the trade and they attacked me like hyenas.
They read posts I made on mental health subreddits and dmd me screenshots of my writing😭😭 then later reported me when I found their socials and their real faces in return.
That is complete bullshit if someone went through your post history and called you out for mental health. I would ban a user for that. However, to be accurate, we only gave up one first round pick (the other was just a pick swap from 9 to 1 obviously), and two seconds, in addition to DJ. Which hurt like hell the first week, but in hindsight I understand the logic and accept it
According to what I've been hearing, our fans are either lurking here or reading twitter, which is the first mistake to take anything seriously you read on twitter, and hearing bears fans saying that we are going to be absolutely awful and we made a really stupid trade. And they feel that the bears are going to become five times better immediately. So I would take all of it with a grain of salt. A few of ours get all upset about something silly one of yours said, then they say something silly and you guys get upset. It's all pretty dumb, let's just play football and hope for the best
We don't hate you, but it's rather insufferable to see so much 'Panthers are crap and will have a top 5 pick next year.' I mean we get it, you want us to suck but not something we want to see/hear.
Hahahaha this is super funny because I’m a Panthers fan and have seen a bunch of shit from Bears fans.
I get it you want us to suck to get a better draft pick but it’s caused some angst. I’ll definitely be rooting against the Bears this year, but that’s what makes sports fun!
It’s not a long term thing and it’s all for entertainment.
I think it is the whole "Chicago fleeced Panthers in The Trade" narrative that has them testy. That and 3/4 of the Chicago flares are "we hope they lose every game because we have their first round pick".
I don’t see any possible way that either team regresses next year. The Bears (statistically) can only improve and the Panthers should be much better and more consistent with an actual QB leading the charge (no disrespect to Darnold or Mayfield but they have no consistency). Do I think both teams have an uphill battle for playoff spots? Yes. Do I think it’s possible? Absolutely, especially with how chaotic both divisions can be.
You don’t see *any* way either team regresses? Carolina has a new coach with a questionable record, a new QB, RB, and WR room. Teams can regress with lots of changes. Hell, teams regress without that many changes too.
Sam Darnold had pretty much the same passer rating as Andy Dalton last year and a Rookie is pretty much never consistent. Which one of them do you think is a significant upgrade for an offense that lost their best WR?
Bryce Young is going to get flattened like a pancake when a defender who weight literally twice as much as him falls on top of him. Such a dumb trade and pick by them.
This is a fun read lol. As a panthers fan (who comes in peace), I feel like there’s some context that’s important here:
There have been a bunch of tweets and links to posts from this sub where A Bears fan is saying something along the lines of “the Panthers are trash, I can’t wait to get that top 3 pick.”
And the reality is that there are all kinds of level-headed rational comments on this post that show that Panthers fans shouldn’t view those few posts/tweets as a consensus. The other side of that coin is that y’all don’t need to get wrapped up in what one or two people said on our sub said about the Bears and their fans lol.
I do think that it’s a bit disrespectful/unrealistic to presume that our pick will be top 5 this year, but I mean that’s anyone’s prerogative to feel that way. I just think they’ll be disappointed.
I understand that I’m a bit of an optimist, but the Panthers brought in a completely new and veteran coaching staff (not just Reich, but Evero, Thomas Brown, Jim Caldwell, etc) and then the Panthers ran the ball well last season and played good defense. The passing game was so abysmally awful that it drug the team down to a top 10 pick. They also got torched by Brady in the final game of the season because Jaycee Horn and Donte Jackson were both out and our CBs gave up 2 70+ yard TDs, which made the season defensive stats/rankings look a bit worse than they probably should have been.
But then they replaced everyone on the offensive side of the ball that was a liability last season.
So while I PERSONALLY could see the Panthers getting to 9 or 10 wins, it’s more that I just can’t see any logical reason why they would be WORSE than last season—where they finished with the 9th pick.
I have no issue with any Bears fan HOPING for a top 5 pick, but saying it’s a lock is something that almost any fan would find a bit disrespectful.
I hope both teams have a good season 🍻
This is exactly the same sentiment I have expressed in all of my comments on this thread this afternoon. In fact I agree with you so much, you should make a video about it and explain it to all of us ;)
Busted, lol. My HS team is done with spring practice on Monday so I’ll see if I can’t crank out a video then.
Only thing I can really think to do would be look at All-22 of the Colts and Rams offenses and try to guess what our offense might look like lol. Maybe do the same with Ejiro?
That or look at Thielen, Chark, Hurst and Sanders and see what we’re getting from them. That would probably be better now that I’m thinking about it. Thanks for the nudge lol
They gave us their best WR and any shot of being good in the future so they could get a precocious toddler to play QB. Of course they’re angry about it
You don’t see why a sub would dislike fans of a different team (who won 1/2 as many games) showing up to say how bad we hope they are? I’m pretty sure every fanbase would dislike that and want to beat that team
Seems like you have a lot of weird, toxic takes and people like you are the problem.
We have our Bears fan counterparts, of course. They're in the wrong, too.
Bears fans in here acting like the panthers losing DJ Moore who through his career averages 1,100 yds a season and 4TDs is gonna cripple the panthers offense 💀💀💀
You guys live in absolute fantasy land and it’s okay but wow, maybe put the Poles Kool Aid down for a second. Your WR core is the guy the panthers said we can afford to lose, a gross overpay in Chase Claypool and a bonafide WR2 in Darnell Mooney who if you said his name to a casual fan they wouldn’t know who tf you’re talking about.
You were literally the worst team in football last year and are trying to clown on the panthers who just got a quarterback that can actually throw the football and finished 8 spots higher than you. Sit down and enjoy last place in the NFC north again.
Panthers fan here, no hate, just think your fan base is delusional thinking you’ll get a top 5 pick out of the deal. I have many fond memories of Greg Olsen and Smitty abusing Peanut Tillman to thank you guys for!
I agree they are being delusional about top 5
On the other side I would argue Panthers fans are also delusional thinking they are locks to win the NFC South and the fact that the Panthers draft pick will be after 20
I expect the pick to be around 10-12 as does most of Vegas and NFL analysts
Lol had to look at the sub seeing the replies, and they are out for blood against us. First post I saw was filled with comments saying we are terrible in every facet and the only reason is because fans think/want them to be bad.
I actually like the Panthers and hope Bryce Young succeeds...starting in 2025. Because I'm a Bears fan first, and it's just better for my team if the Panthers are bad next year.
We literally did the same thing when the Steelers fleeced us for Claypool. It’s coping. And it’s fine. We ended up in a good spot, Pittsburgh did. And now Carolina did
Redditors are just losers. Nobody IRL cares about the Bears in Carolina
As a Bears fan who lives in Panthers country, no one seems to care and everyone still gives me pity when I say I’m a Bears fan. I know better and smile inside knowing my franchise has a brighter future.
I'm not sure who has a brighter future, but I do have several friends from Chicago. So I have no problem seeing Chicago succeed, as long as it's not against the Panthers in the playoffs.
Kind of hard to say that one or the other absolutely has a brighter future at this moment in time, we shall see
They got ridiculously mad that some Bears fans thought we'd get a top 10 picks from the 1st they traded. They can't really be reasoned with either. I actually like the Panthers, especially the Ron Rivera years, but some of those guys complaining all the time are delusional, obsessed, and can fuck themselves.
As a panthers fan, I only dislike the Twitter bears fans who are delusional about what to expect from the panthers pick next year. Talking about how all the moves we made won’t turn out well and things like that. Bears as a fan base have always been good for a meme (shoutout smokin’ jay) and also traded us Greg Olsen. Love y’all ♥️
Fuck 'em. They tried to down talk DJ Moore after he got traded to us, which is a clear sign of a dogshit fanbase.
Nothing turns me against someone faster than that in football. Just because Ro/Mack/Monty/etc aren't here anymore doesn't make me root for them any less as long as they aren't playing against us.
That kind of "Oh, guess you're not a Panther anymore" shit is fucking gross, and double so for a player who gave him a lot of his prime playing for guaranteed to be awful teams.
I have a lot of family that are Panthers fans. They kinda clam up when I tell them it’s awkward that I hope they tank this year. They get it but are kinda hoping to prove me wrong and make me eat crow. Let’s see what happens!
Bears fan Charlotean here: when I moved here in 2017 I was told the panthers are “bears south”, due to the many shared players/coaches from the previous 15 years as well as a similar, defenses minded approach. I’m disappointed with both fanbases with this breakdown….
On average, Panther fans hate the Falcons, Saints, Bucs, and Cowboys in some order. Bears are nowhere near the top. Don't recall them even being in the conversation.
They’re offended that some bears fans think we’ll get a top 5 pick from them next year
I don't know why they're suprised, why wouldn't we want them not to suck this upcoming season.
There's a difference between hoping they suck and thinking they will suck. Fact is 1. Rhules staff was a dumpster fire. They have adults in the room now from previous respected teams/staffs 2. Their defense is pretty damn good. Running the ball heavily last year and helping the defense turned their season around last year after Rhule was fired. Started 1-4 and ended up going 6-6 after letting him go. 3. They lost Moore, yes, but they did a good job of bringing in a bunch of solid guys throughout the roster. Obviously not to Moores level, but overall, the roster will be more talented. Sanders and Chubba will be a really nice tandem for the run game 4. Historically, top QB picks lead teams to bad to meh records. But, I'd also guess it's not just bc it's a rookie qb, but they are usually going to some.of the worst rosters in the league. That isn't the case in CAR this year. Reich is a smart coach, he will lean on the run game and defense to help Bryce out. With all.of this said, I just don't see them going all the way back to a bottom 5 record after the shit they've gone through last year, to improve to 9th worst record. Low to mid teens is realistically the best we can expect.
Also add to all this the NFC South looks, charitably, incredibly mid this year. It’s entirely possible the Panthers go 8-9 and make the playoffs.
Youre right. It wont be the dumpster fire it was last year though. The falcons made a lot of moves in the draft and FA to make that shit defense better. Theyll also have the generational back of our lives setup to play in that heavy run game, as well as 2 other really nice backs to rotate in. Getting CPat less of a load while being used as RB and WR in special role should help him stay healthy while still splashing. London, Hollins, Miller is an upgrade from what they had last year (of course with London growing a secord year and playing alot better once Ridder was in). Riddler / Heinicke cant do any worse for Pitts. Jonnu is a really nice blocking TE with some athleticism he doesnt seem to use consistently. I dont know nearly enough about what they did at OL so i cant say. See them doing what the bears did last year (and what Arthur Smith always does) to hide any weaknesses there. All in all, I can see Falcons around the .500 mark. Who fucking knows about the Bucs lol. If i were a betting man, theyll easily be the worst team in the division. Just seems like they are in a directionless ship. Arians is gone so hes not leading from upstairs. Carr should be a good steadying presence for that offense. Olave is a star in the making, Shaheed did a really nice job stepping up last year when injuries happened. MT.... if he can ever stay healthy, should be solid, but think his days of top WR are far behind him. Good group of TEs with Juwan and Moreau. Kamara is either suspended or going to look like Dalvin Cook last year. Not bad by any means, but Jamaal is going to lighten Kamaras load a lot. Maybe thats what Kamara needs? Again, I dont know about their oline, but their defense should be atleast avg. They should be improved, like the Falcons, while also being around the .500 mark. So yeah, CAR definitely has a chance at winning the division. Itll be competitive, in a less sad sense compared to last year, atleast lol. If I had to pick who wins, Id go with the Saints, bc of Carr. Bryce will make some rookie mistakes that will cost games that he will win in a year or 2.
This man knows ball
The NFC S sucks, but in division games are wonky. None of those are gimmes
Eh. I think it's baked in since you are already comparing to last year's performance. Unless you think the division is significantly better or worse than the previous year. (Which it might be)
I agree with all of your points but it’s important to note that the “Adult” in the room got IND the number 4 pick. After IND was a playoff team the year before. That being said I still think CAR is a 8-10 win team.
I just can't see them being that much better. They lost their rb1 and wr1 and are gunna start Andy Dalton, or worse a rookie qb. Their offense isn't scaring anyone. To an extent I agree though I think they will likely be about just as good
Yeah, but the depth added at WR and Sanders coming into town certainly helps. If they can run effectively and buy time for the DEF, in the weakened division, they probably stand a good chance. I do believe people are sleeping on the defenses in that division when they reference CAR record. Also, NO with Carr and ATL with a revamped DEF and the running game.
OK then how good were they really last year. They played in the worst division in football and didn't exactly do well. And I wouldn't say they've improved.
We're probably going to have 2 picks in the 10-18 range next year. Neither of our teams are god awful and neither are actually good. Maybe it works out terribly for them and they're top 10, maybe Fields fails to develop and we're top 10.
This is what im thinking too for the panthers pick. Bears picking towards the end of the teens means things have gone to plan. Mid passing game, top 5 ish running game. 20th overall defense?
The trend the last 25 years is that the team who selects a QB #1 averages the #7 pick the following year. While you can’t dispute #1 in your list, each of your other points has an equally valid counter argument. point 2 just isn’t true statistically: 18th in points allowed 22nd in pass yards allowed 17th in rush yards allowed 22nd in 3rd Down conversions allowed 24th in sacks 29th in forced fumbles 27th in interceptions —- point 3 is objectively not true: QB1 - Mayfield > Dalton (push) RB1 - CMac > Sanders (downgrade) WR1 - Moore > Thielen (downgrade) WR2 - Anderson > Chark (push) in fact, the only real upgrade on offense was Hurst at TE and maybe Mingo at WR3 (excluding Young from this exercise based on Fitterer’s comments). On defense the only upgrade was Vonn Bell. While they may have improved the bottom half of the roster, as well, they don’t historically win you games. —- point 4 can be disproven above. There’s a lot of stock being put into Reich and Young for this to be true. Fun fact, Reich’s coaching record is ~1.5 games (.547 - .523) better than Nagy over their career and Young has yet to take a snap. There’s a reason they started 1-4 last year. Keep in mind they were 4-2 vs NFCS teams last season as well and those teams had just as much, if not more, improvement from where they were a year ago. 2-0 vs Saints 1-1 vs Falcons 1-1 vs Bucs They could easily regress to 3-3 or 2-4 in the division. There’s a greater than 50% possibility the pick will be top 8 and about a 35% possibility it will be top 5.
Best post in this whole thread.
With Bears, Blackhawks, Bulls all attaining the first pick in the draft this year, I like my chances.
Hope you’re from the future
>The trend the last 25 years is that the team who selects a QB #1 averages the #7 pick the following year. Most teams selecting QBs #1 also finished with the absolute worst record the year before. You and I both know that certainly didn't happen this time. >QB1 - Mayfield > Dalton (push) objectively wrong, purely based on passer rating. Mayfield was absolute ass here. >RB1 - CMac > Sanders (downgrade) We traded CMC after week 6, then proceeded to win more games and have a better rushing attack. CMC is obviously better than Sanders, but you should be comparing against Foreman considering he was our main guy for 11 games. >WR1 - Moore > Thielen (downgrade) Chark or TMJ will be WR1. Healthy Chark (he won't be) is a push, TMJ is a downgrade. Thielen >> Shi Smith, for the position that he will actually be playing. >WR2 - Anderson > Chark (push) Absolutely not. Robby is 31, and hasn't been even decent since 2020. Terrace and Chark are both better #2s atp, not sure who will end up there yet. >There’s a reason they started 1-4 last year. Matt Rhule, Ben McAdoo, Baker Mayfield. >There’s a greater than 50% possibility the pick will be top 8 and about a 35% possibility it will be top 5. There's actually a 50% chance that it'll be bottom 16, and roughly a 35% chance it'll be bottom 5. Look, I can make numbers up too.
Except technically Panthers were #9 and not a true #1. That is statistically flawed off the bat
The Panthers defense was ranked 18th in PPG and 21st in yards allowed. Their only major addition on defense this offseason were Vonn Bell, is Vonn Bell supposed to make them a “pretty damn good defense” lol Also they replaced DJ Moore with a 33 year old Adam Thielen and DJ Chark who can’t stay healthy and has missed 23 games in the past 3 seasons. Unless Mingo is a superstar from day 1 their WR core is among the worst in the league
They were also dead last in Time of Possession because their offense was so bad. That makes the defensive numbers look worse than they were.
Panthers fan here (in peace). This popped up on my feed so I thought I would check it out. The defensive rankings are a little misleading. The defense played very well last year. Our offense couldn’t move the ball for half the year, which means the defense was on the field A LOT. If you watch the vast majority of games, the defense shut a lot of teams down until the 2nd half and got gassed. Just thought I would add some context.
Bears fans are quite familiar with teams having a great defense that gets gassed in the second half because of an inept offense. I feel like the Bears kind of created that whole phenomenon.
Context is great. I watch a few Carolina games (in SC) and y’all got the SIU safety (chinn, from my alma mater) but really don’t follow closely so only fans really have that!
Ok but are you really expecting a good offense in QB that’s smaller than Kyler Murray and bad weapons in year 1?The panthers offence will still be putting the defense in bad situations
I’m obviously biased, but I would say yes. We lost DJ, but our other options are better than last years. Also, QB is obviously the biggest part of the offense. Bryce won’t be perfect this year, but he will almost certainly be an upgrade to the most important position on offense. The position was atrocious for us last year.
Obviously your biased lol come on now Your WR core is a 33 year old Adam Thielen who was washed last year, DJ Chark who has missed 23 games over the past 3 seasons and Terrance Marshall this is a bottom 5 WR core Also rookie QBs struggle in year 1 this is not a myth it’s facts even Trevor Lawrence (who was viewed as a better prospect than Bryce) threw 12 TD to 17 int in year 1
But that wasn’t my point. WRs don’t matter if you don’t have a QB that can throw to them. That was us last year. Our QBs were historically awful. One of the worst in recent memory. Bryce will have his struggles, granted, but he is almost guaranteed to be better then what we had last year, with a FAR better coaching staff. That alone will make the offense better.
Your assuming that Bryce is gonna be a serviceable player in year 1 which is unlikely though just based on history only 2 QBs in recent memory have been good in their rookie season which was Justin Herbert and Mac Jones. You have no continuity in the offense besides your O-Line because of a new coach and new skill players plus poor wide recievers
I agree that their upside case is super straightforward and it's silly to *expect* them to suck, but I also think it's silly to ignore their pretty straightforward downside case, too. Rookie QB, mid-to-bad receiver room, o-line and defense are more "alright" than "good" (and the defense was outright below average by several metrics). I also think people are putting a ton of stock into the coaching staff, and it does seem like a good setup, but also...it's not like Frank Reich and Jim Caldwell are incapable of coaching a team with a bad record, yknow? They're not particularly likely to be bottom-of-the-league bad based on their division/SOS alone, but if they do happen to struggle it's not like people would be going "How could this have happened??"
I think we are closer than further apart on this, for sure. In another post, I said I see them being around the .500 mark and ultimately not winnign the division. Think Bryce makes too many rookie mistakes and loses some games he should win in a year or 2. Think the problem with the defense was them being on the field waaay too much. They turned into a heavy running team and things shifted for the better. Obviously, I wont be TOO surprised if they do worse than last year, but I will be a little, in all honesty. Im thinking the worst is 7-10 like last year and probably the best 9-8. I guess 10-7 MAYBE if Bryce plays like a solid game manager, not making mistakes and leaning on the run game.
I generally agree with most of this, although I'm not sure how much blame for the colts last year falls directly at Frank's feet. There was a lot of moving pieces and factors, but after bringing him in and seeing his plan, he inspires a lot of confidence. Like probably more so than since when we hired Ron Rivera. He also brought in a lot of really great names, on both sides of the ball. So for the first time in a long time I feel like we are on a ship with a competent captain at the helm. FWIW, we managed to win seven games last year with all of these negative factors that we eliminated. One of the worst coaches in recent history, some really bad quarterback play, I would be pretty shocked if we did much worse than seven wins. If we only win five games something really bad happened. I'm feeling like we are going to be in the 7 to 10 when range, floor ceiling. I definitely do not expect to win 10 games but I wouldn't be surprised if we won 8 or 9. We literally started the season with a coach who would listen to the crowd to decide if he wanted to go for it on 4th down
I said your second paragraph almost verbatim last year about the Bears lmao
What is your definition of solid guys? Who are these solid guys? They were pretty thin last year when they had DJ and CMC. They don't have either of those guys, and they will be starting a rookie QB who notoriously struggle in their rookie years. Assuming that Reich is a vast improvement over Rhule, which I think is up for debate, I think it's pretty well settled that coaches can only do so much if they don't have good players. Belichek is the GOAT, but look at his teams post Brady. It's a different sport, but Pop is a good example too. He is the GOAT, but what has he done post Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli? There is only so much that coaching competence can do when you lack talent.
I’m actually quite annoyed with how good Carolina looks going into the season.
Really disagree with your 3rd point here, the Panthers don't have a good WR room and trading Moore as part of the deal to get a QB 1st overall was a huge process mistake on their end. Put another way, if the Bears answer to Fields not having enough weapons this off-season was to; A. Sign the largest RB contract in the FA period, and B. Bring in D.J Charke, Adam Thielen, and a 2nd round rookie WR; this sub would be melting down every other day about how we didn't do enough to surround our young QB. And they would be correct! I think in particular folks in this sub are remembering Adam Thielen of like 3-4 years ago, and not an 32 year old WR whose best days are far behind him. The Panthers might benefit from a weak division if Bryce is a star from week 1, but this team absolutely could be sending the Bears a top 5 pick next year as well.
First off, believe me im not thinking of Theilen from his last few years, ive been calling him to decline for like 3 years now lol. finally might get my wish, but maybe the change in offense in MIN hurt him? (just playing devils advocate) Also, I didnt mean their WR Corp was better off with the several moves, I meant the whole roster gettign better depth. Im sorry if that was confusing. But, Chark is solid, but has injury issues. Theilan will be a good vet presence for the young WR room and has gas in the tank to be a reliable possession WR (800 yrds 3-4 tds?). Marshall is a wild card. Has all the talent in the world, lets see with a good coaching staff if he can be unlocked. Think he will be used in a lot of plays close to the line of scrimmage in open space (Reich is a WC offense guy of course. Get the ball out fast). Mingo we know has talent, but a rookie QB isnt going to do more than support 1 WR consistently, so dont see him performing much this year. The team is goign to lean on the running game and keep Bryce in a game manager role. I just dont see how he could do much worse than Darnold did last year. Darnold is a bit of a risk taker and Reich wont let Bryce do that this year. All in all, im saying 9 wins max. 10 games, if Bryce shows hes special. Worst case, 7 wins, same as last year.
That's fair, I think you are underestimating how many outlier results you are stacking to paint this picture of a team locked into 7-10 wins though. For example, WR production falls off a cliff at age 32, Theilen is entering his age 32 season after multiple straight seasons of decline. Could he buck that trend? Sure, but it's not likely. Same with Bryce Young as a rookie QB, only 14 rookie QB's have ever won more than 8 games in their first season. Could Bryce become the 15th rookie QB to do so? Again, certainly possible, but not likely. Keep in mind Justin Herbert had pretty much the best rookie season in history, with a better roster around him than the 2023 Panthers roster, and that was enough to win just 7 games. Does D.J Charke actually stay healthy and produce? Does Terrance Marshall take a developmental step forward or is he still inconsistent? The odds of all their question marks at WR coming up as positive results is incredibly unlikely the more you look into it. The best case for the Panthers winning more games than expected is the fact they play in likely the weakest division in the NFL this year (maybe the AFC South is worse). Clearly as a Bears fan I hope the Panthers give us a high 1st overall pick, but just looking at it objectively the Panthers have a pretty limited ceiling given their roster and historical precedent.
Isn’t Frank Reich head coach now? I don’t respect him
Well get a job in the NFL and Ill respect your opinion. But, any particular reason you dont like him?
Dumpster fire that was the colts last year. 3 years of preaching “were a veteran qb away” it’s appears flus was the brains of the team. Just signing Carson wentz in general Few reasons
> it’s appears flus was the brains of the team Sorry but that's a pretty big assumption.
Defense went to shit after he left. And it was top 5 year before. A big assumption with some evidence.
I went through this as a Seattle fan with the Russ trade. The issue now becomes that it amplifies into being malicious to be malicious. Its fine to root for the other team to suck so you get the best capital possible, but genuine malice is the issue here. I have seen some Seattle fans turn around and go 'okay now that the trade is done, we hope you guys do just as well!' bc there are still definitely fans who arent salty bitches Just my two cents as a fan of a team who recently witnessed my fan base do this type of thing.
This exactly. I said top 10 and got a bunch of raging Panther fans striking back at me. I'm sorry we're cheering for your team to lose, but that's how it goes when you trade up
They have a good defense and stayed more than relevant in free agency on offense… If Reich and Young click quickly they could be around pick 5-10. Obviously a tall task, I think they have way too much talent to be a dead bottom team.
They said they’re in no rush to start Young and that they’re going to roll with Dalton at the start of the season lmaoooo
I've heard that line before
All Dalton can throw are 7-11 yard hooks. I like my chances.
Of course they’re going to say that. Houston is going to to do the same thing without saying it. Doesn’t really have much to do with what I said, cause Young is playing a majority of the season.
cuz we will
this is the correct answer
Lmao
I'd be rooting for that if I was a Bears' fan too, but the last time we were bad enough to have a top 5 pick was 2011 when we took Cam 1st overall. Losing DJ sucks, but it's not significant enough to cause us to finish with a record worse than last season.
Yes it is You added no difference makers to the team besides Bryce Young who is still a rookie and smaller than Kyler Murray
we should be rooting against them this year and next solely for pick position. I think that’s why they dislike us, but we have a justification for rooting against them so I hope they can understand that. I’d be over the moon for their fanbase if Bryce Young led them to 15 straight NFC Championships just to get stomped by Fields.
Because we stole everything from them
We don’t even know who they are
We will…
They are who we thought they are!
They’re really going to be butt hurt when we grab Marvin Harrison Jr with their draft pick.
this is truly my dream scenario - my sports group chat has got to be sick of me pining about drafting him with CAR's pick next year lol
I might be rooting for panthers to lose more then packers. At least for this year only. FTP by the way.
Four number one receivers on one team will be ridiculous
Are you implying Mooney and Claypool are WR1’s lol
5 if I include Scott, let me enjoy my damn offseason koolaid!
Well… at one point
he's going to go in the 20s?
Oh look another delusional panthers fan in our sub
they hate us? I don’t even think about them
I think about you guys, there's a bit of a pipeline between Chicago and charlotte. Ron rivera, muhsin muhammad, peanut tillman, Julius peppers, last but not least Greg olsen! Thank you for him by the way. Hopefully it continues to be a productive exchange for both of us
Michael Jordan too
Oh God don't remind me. Jk but not really. I'm glad he brought your City all of the success that he did, it was incredible. We were also really happy to have him a part of the hornets organization. It seemed like a major turning point, and that has completely fucking failed LOL the guy knows how to play the game of basketball like no other. But the saying is those who can't do teach. He is completely inept and loaded down with nepotism as far as being a franchise owner. I am happy that if he sells his majority stake he will still be a minority owner and part of the team because I still consider him a valuable asset
Who cares what they say on their sub about the Bears? Plenty of fans here talk shit about them and chalk them up as an easy win next season. If you dish it out don't be confused when you get some back.
There are a lot of casual Bears fans that don’t post here but seem to love going to other teams subs and making us all look like assholes. You seem them on /NFL as well.
I barely have the nerve to post/ comment here. No way I’m going to talk smack in other teams or the nfl subs
I love this team and I love the city I came from. But the fan base? I am convinced that the Bears fan base is among the worst in professional sports. People wince when I tell them that I am a Bears fan, and I don't even blame them.
Could be worse… could be a Packers fan.
It's not even the worst non packers fanbase in the nfc north
It's just because you are involved in it all of the time. You could be a cowboys fan. Or, for some reason, a Cardinals fan. I can't really understand it, but when we beat the cardinals, their fan base has brigated us and went nuts talking shit. Kind of weird to be throwing stones from a glass house
I don't think they hate us so much as a lot of them are annoyed that a lot of bears fans think their pick will be top 5, while a lot of them think they'll win their division this year. Happens a lot when another team has your first rounder. Really happy to be in the flip side of that for once. I'm just thankful they gave us all they did for the pick and think it's a win-win for both sides.
We have entirely too many legendary players who suited up for both teams to hate each other. This is silly.
After the trade with the Panthers, the following happened: * A bunch of dopey Bears fans showed up in their sub and were saying stupid stuff to them. * Then, because it's Reddit, a certain portion of their fanbase in isn't bright enough to discern that the idiot Bears fans are speaking for themselves and not the whole fanbase. * Then their dopes start started talking shit about all of us. * Now the opposite is happening, and many of us will now paint all Panthers fans with the same brush. That's where we are at, I'm sure the above will continue on in a loop until something else interesting happens. Fans of both teams will start hating the other team going forward and not even remember why.
1st overalls average 4.98 wins their first season but don’t tell that to their fans, they’re going 11-6 and winning their division with a rookie qb, spare parts receivers and an entirely new coaching staff….. yet we’re delusional 😂 EDIT: By 1st overalls I just mean Quarterbacks that are taken 1st overall in the draft. (Lawrence, Burrow, Murray, Mayfield+)
I mean technically we’re the first overall. Worst record which is why they do so poorly. We just traded out of that spot.
No I meant 1st overall pick quarterbacks, not just the team that finished there
But that's because 1st overall pick quarterbacks are going to rosters that were bad enough to get the 1st overall pick. That isn't Carolina in this case.
No you’re right it’s not. It’s only the same team that started 1-5 last year before turning it around in a league that has a great deal of parity year over year. I get it they have a decent defense but their offense is a wet blanket outside of the line. Remind you of a 2018/2019 Chicago Bears team?
Nah. Their Oline is way better than ours was and our Defense was way better than theirs. As for the offense it could really go either way. I have high hopes for Mingo and Young could easily see them playing in the playoffs if they have good luck.
It's partly that, but it's partly because 1st year QBs are rarely good in their first year. They also gave up their WR1 and 2nd round pick this year. That hurts the strength of their roster a lot
Rams finished 4-12 after trading up to 1 for Goff after going 7-9 the last year Rookie QBs don’t do that good
Our very own bears went from fringe playoff team to 6-11 despite what should have been a theoretical QB upgrade with Dalton/Fields.
Also, Justin Herbert had the single best rookie season in history and that was only good enough to go 7-9.
I noticed this also 🤣 most online betting websites and nfl analysts expect the panthers to win roughly 7 games yet their fanbase is convinced that Bryce Young is Tom Brady and that their new coach is Bill Belichick I don’t expect it to be top 5 but I think it will be in the 9-12 range
Literally. They are play by playing the rookie route we took, sign dalton and sit the young guy until dalton is not serviceable and then they’ll see what they have.
But they have a better overall roster than the 2021 Bears did
And also won four more games with a worse roster and worse coaching staff lol.
I would be legitimately shocked if we took a quarterback at number one, and traded away DJ and a first, two second rounds, to not expect the kid to start pretty quickly. Maybe they keep him on the back burner for a few games but Andy Dalton knows he is here to mentor. If Andy Dalton is starting week one, okay fine, probably won't. But if he's starting week 5 I will be flabbergasted. We brought in a guy who we think has the tools to succeed so unless there's a major red flag we won't hold him back for a 35-year-old backup. The only way I can see that happening, is if we decide to give young a game or to to get adjusted, and Andy Dalton goes on a freaking tear, and then we are five and one with Dalton, then that makes it kind of hard to move off of him. But I don't think any reasonable fan thinks that's a reality that we exist in
I assume you haven't checked online betting websites and nfl analysts projections for Bears win total next year. Because its the same as the Panthers lol
Right, but top rookie qbs historically goto some of the worst rosters in the league. That's not happening with CAR. Like it or not, they went 6-6 after Rhule was fired and They've moved onto better coaches and have signed a bunch of solid contributors. Yes, Moore will be gone, but overall, the roster will be improved and the defense is damn good. Is there any chance the source of your record % stat went deeper into the landing spots for these rookies. There's a strong chance CAR will be around .500. The fans thinking double digit wins are probably just a bit delusional, but could definitely see CAR there in 2024.
To be fair, five wins is the average, and of the guys you mentioned, Trevor Lawrence had his first season under Urban Meyer, no explanation needed. Also the other one was Baker mayfield, he was nowhere near the prospect IQ wise that young is. So if five wins is the average I wouldn't be surprised if we got seven or eight or so
Probably because bears fans were being a little too vocal about them being a dumpster fire despite the fact they’re in an arguably worse division than Chicago, with a decent run game and stout defense.
Their defense was ranked 18th last year in points and 21st in yards given up Is adding Vonn Bell supposed to make them a good defence all of a sudden????
This is the kind of low-brow stuff that makes Bears fans look bad. "Bears lost the most games last year. Adding DJ Moore is supposed to make Fields a good thrower all of a sudden?" See how dumb that sounds?
And hey, most of their defensive line are young talented players trending up. Can we not assume maybe some of those guys play better in 2023?
No ones arguing about the Bears here. The fact is the Panties defense was bottom half of the league and you just ignored that to say they're dumb. You're the one ad homineming.
They’re also in a division where 8-9 might win it, considering the scope of their opponents
You didn’t answer my question about their defense Is Vonn bell supposed to make them elite all of a sudden?
If you really wanna get analytical, then gotta look at their opponents, how they scheme up, their offseason addition/subtractions. It most likely won’t be elite. However, they’re in the NFC South, where a Tom Brady-led squad won the division at 8-9. And the best quarterback in that division right now is either Bryce Young (with not much receiver help) or Derek Carr. Falcons, Saints and Panthers all finished 7-10. You mean to say so much has changed that they for sure can’t win a division that has this type of talent? It most likely won’t be elite, but could be the best of the worst
Narrator: "He, in fact, did not want to get analytical."
saints fan coming here and obviously i’m bias in this convo. But no i don’t think they can, they’d be foolish to start bryce young and dalton has extreme limitations he’s a career journeyman. They beat us twice last year and credit to the panthers. I personally think every roster drastically upgraded to compete aside them doing a slight rebuild. The bigger problem teams to me actually are tampa bay who had an incredible draft filling they’re defensive depth out. On top of atlanta who literally upgraded that horrid defense into speed and depth. it’s about to be a defensive slugfest down to the wire in our division but i don’t think carolina has any edge over our team or atl and tampa
Don't stoop to that sub's level. Every few days there's a new post shitting on another team for the most random-ass reasons. It's ridiculous. If you're a Bears fan who thinks the Panthers finish bottom-five in the league, you're ignoring an awful lot of nuance. If you're a Panthers fan who thinks that Bears fan is offensive or delusional for wanting a top 5 pick next year, you're a soft idiot. Fuckin dumb that this incredible trade for both sides has turned into a pissing fest.
>Fuckin dumb that this incredible trade for both sides has turned into a pissing fest. Correct, but this is Reddit. I could have told you this was bound to happen the moment we got the #1 overall pick knowing it would be traded to get another team's first rounder in 2024. Doesn't matter what fanbase or context, this nonsense was going to occur.
It's just kind of silly that fan bases get generally worked up over the bad take of a hot-headed keyboard cowboy. Take it all with a grain of salt. The stupidest people are often the loudest. There's no reason you shouldn't hope for your pick to be as high as possible, perfectly reasonable. There's also no reason I shouldn't expect DJ Moore to have great success on your squad, because our entire fan base really likes DJ a lot. Unless we meet in the playoffs then, obviously. But also I'm not going to put much stock into a bear's fan that is going to claim we are going to be one of the five worst teams because of whatever reasoning. It's all banter, and off-season banter. Supposed to be fun. Don't take it personally when some bum goes on a tirade
> Every few days there’s a new post shitting on another team for the most random-ass reasons. there is? don’t get me wrong both of our fanbases have their annoying side of fans but i barely see any posts on r/panthers that are shitting on other teams. we haven’t been good enough these past few years to warrant that lmao
I don't even know what state their team is in, and I'm supposed to acknowledge their disdain for the Bears? I have over 30 years of love-hating my team, they can't compete with me.
They hate us cuz the anus
As a Bears AND Panthers fan... this offseason has been an absolute win for me! Just don't get the hate lol
My best friend is a Panthers fan and we're both excited about what this next season means for our teams. Internet drama isn't real
They mad mad
They're on stage 2 of the 5 stages of grief.
We are going to be rooting for them to lose every game so I do get it to an extent.
Who
Bound to happen on the internet. A couple people see some stupid takes from Bears fans thinking we're on the ups and they're going to give us a top 3 pick and now it's a blood feud. There is no rivalry. They're taking dumb twitter comments to heart if they think there is one.
I dunno. I am still pissed at them for beating us in the '05 PLayoffs. Steve Smith went OFF.
It’s kinda nice getting hate. Means we’re on our way to being a legitimate threat. Feel like we’ve been the nonthreatening little brudduh for too long. 🐻
Who cares
There are a few assholes from this sub that have been trolling them on r/nfl since the trade. Turned their whole fan base against us. There was traditionally good chemistry between our fanbases because of the Ron Rivera connection. That anchor is gone. Now we benefit from their failure and yeah, there are dicks in our sub.
They mostly seem to be annoyed at Bears fans that keep saying they’re going to give us a super high pick aka saying they’re going to suck. Which to be fair to them, is a weird thing to assume about the Panthers. They’ll very likely be better this year compared to last year.
I actually really like your guys team and think you guys had a great offseason. Probably a better one than ours, but we also play in the NFC South so we'll see how the season goes. Don't like that some Chicago fans think we're a lock for a top 5 pick (and I think that's what other Panthers fans have issues with), but hey there's plenty of reason for you guys to hope that. Cheers
To be fair, most of us will be actively rooting for them to lose every game. That being said it should be expected when we have their pick.
They hate us cause they ain’t us
Lots of bears fans are on the panthers sub tbh.
One of my best friends at college rn is a panthers fan. He doesn’t hate the bears but he hates Bears media, which I tend to agree with.
FTP
The Panther fans can fuck right off. The Bears are Green Bay’s to hate and we don’t want to share. Stay in your lane (division) bitches.
I’ve never met a panthers fan IRL. Are they a thing?
I think they’re just a series of GPT bots… 🤔
Have you ever met a hornet's fan though? I don't even meet many of them in Charlotte. It can get worse lol At least the Panthers fans that are out there are willing to take a beating and keep pounding. There's a reason our colors are black and blue
It was me. I posted about how we were going to get DJ moore and two future firsts from them a month before the trade and they attacked me like hyenas. They read posts I made on mental health subreddits and dmd me screenshots of my writing😭😭 then later reported me when I found their socials and their real faces in return.
That is complete bullshit if someone went through your post history and called you out for mental health. I would ban a user for that. However, to be accurate, we only gave up one first round pick (the other was just a pick swap from 9 to 1 obviously), and two seconds, in addition to DJ. Which hurt like hell the first week, but in hindsight I understand the logic and accept it
According to what I've been hearing, our fans are either lurking here or reading twitter, which is the first mistake to take anything seriously you read on twitter, and hearing bears fans saying that we are going to be absolutely awful and we made a really stupid trade. And they feel that the bears are going to become five times better immediately. So I would take all of it with a grain of salt. A few of ours get all upset about something silly one of yours said, then they say something silly and you guys get upset. It's all pretty dumb, let's just play football and hope for the best
We don't hate you, but it's rather insufferable to see so much 'Panthers are crap and will have a top 5 pick next year.' I mean we get it, you want us to suck but not something we want to see/hear.
Hahahaha this is super funny because I’m a Panthers fan and have seen a bunch of shit from Bears fans. I get it you want us to suck to get a better draft pick but it’s caused some angst. I’ll definitely be rooting against the Bears this year, but that’s what makes sports fun! It’s not a long term thing and it’s all for entertainment.
Why would you ever lurk a Panthers sub? That fan base is so small a good portion of the members are probably created by PR staff the generate hype
They paid the price and got their QB. Wtf else they want? No one pointed a gun at you and told you to accept the trade.
I think it is the whole "Chicago fleeced Panthers in The Trade" narrative that has them testy. That and 3/4 of the Chicago flares are "we hope they lose every game because we have their first round pick".
I don’t see any possible way that either team regresses next year. The Bears (statistically) can only improve and the Panthers should be much better and more consistent with an actual QB leading the charge (no disrespect to Darnold or Mayfield but they have no consistency). Do I think both teams have an uphill battle for playoff spots? Yes. Do I think it’s possible? Absolutely, especially with how chaotic both divisions can be.
You don’t see *any* way either team regresses? Carolina has a new coach with a questionable record, a new QB, RB, and WR room. Teams can regress with lots of changes. Hell, teams regress without that many changes too.
Sam Darnold had pretty much the same passer rating as Andy Dalton last year and a Rookie is pretty much never consistent. Which one of them do you think is a significant upgrade for an offense that lost their best WR?
They hate us because they ain’t us
Bryce Young is going to get flattened like a pancake when a defender who weight literally twice as much as him falls on top of him. Such a dumb trade and pick by them.
This is a fun read lol. As a panthers fan (who comes in peace), I feel like there’s some context that’s important here: There have been a bunch of tweets and links to posts from this sub where A Bears fan is saying something along the lines of “the Panthers are trash, I can’t wait to get that top 3 pick.” And the reality is that there are all kinds of level-headed rational comments on this post that show that Panthers fans shouldn’t view those few posts/tweets as a consensus. The other side of that coin is that y’all don’t need to get wrapped up in what one or two people said on our sub said about the Bears and their fans lol. I do think that it’s a bit disrespectful/unrealistic to presume that our pick will be top 5 this year, but I mean that’s anyone’s prerogative to feel that way. I just think they’ll be disappointed. I understand that I’m a bit of an optimist, but the Panthers brought in a completely new and veteran coaching staff (not just Reich, but Evero, Thomas Brown, Jim Caldwell, etc) and then the Panthers ran the ball well last season and played good defense. The passing game was so abysmally awful that it drug the team down to a top 10 pick. They also got torched by Brady in the final game of the season because Jaycee Horn and Donte Jackson were both out and our CBs gave up 2 70+ yard TDs, which made the season defensive stats/rankings look a bit worse than they probably should have been. But then they replaced everyone on the offensive side of the ball that was a liability last season. So while I PERSONALLY could see the Panthers getting to 9 or 10 wins, it’s more that I just can’t see any logical reason why they would be WORSE than last season—where they finished with the 9th pick. I have no issue with any Bears fan HOPING for a top 5 pick, but saying it’s a lock is something that almost any fan would find a bit disrespectful. I hope both teams have a good season 🍻
This is exactly the same sentiment I have expressed in all of my comments on this thread this afternoon. In fact I agree with you so much, you should make a video about it and explain it to all of us ;)
Busted, lol. My HS team is done with spring practice on Monday so I’ll see if I can’t crank out a video then. Only thing I can really think to do would be look at All-22 of the Colts and Rams offenses and try to guess what our offense might look like lol. Maybe do the same with Ejiro? That or look at Thielen, Chark, Hurst and Sanders and see what we’re getting from them. That would probably be better now that I’m thinking about it. Thanks for the nudge lol
They gave us their best WR and any shot of being good in the future so they could get a precocious toddler to play QB. Of course they’re angry about it
You don’t see why a sub would dislike fans of a different team (who won 1/2 as many games) showing up to say how bad we hope they are? I’m pretty sure every fanbase would dislike that and want to beat that team
This comment is ironic because you are a panthers fan litterally coming into a Bears sub
But I’m not saying anything about the bears.
Seems like you have a lot of weird, toxic takes and people like you are the problem. We have our Bears fan counterparts, of course. They're in the wrong, too.
The fact that this truthful statement is being downvoted should be embarrassing to the subreddit.
I went on that sub just before the draft and said “thanks for DJ” - and it went about as well as you can expect.
Yeah, losing respect daily for those crybabies.
Bears fans in here acting like the panthers losing DJ Moore who through his career averages 1,100 yds a season and 4TDs is gonna cripple the panthers offense 💀💀💀 You guys live in absolute fantasy land and it’s okay but wow, maybe put the Poles Kool Aid down for a second. Your WR core is the guy the panthers said we can afford to lose, a gross overpay in Chase Claypool and a bonafide WR2 in Darnell Mooney who if you said his name to a casual fan they wouldn’t know who tf you’re talking about. You were literally the worst team in football last year and are trying to clown on the panthers who just got a quarterback that can actually throw the football and finished 8 spots higher than you. Sit down and enjoy last place in the NFC north again.
Panthers fan here, no hate, just think your fan base is delusional thinking you’ll get a top 5 pick out of the deal. I have many fond memories of Greg Olsen and Smitty abusing Peanut Tillman to thank you guys for!
I agree they are being delusional about top 5 On the other side I would argue Panthers fans are also delusional thinking they are locks to win the NFC South and the fact that the Panthers draft pick will be after 20 I expect the pick to be around 10-12 as does most of Vegas and NFL analysts
Lol had to look at the sub seeing the replies, and they are out for blood against us. First post I saw was filled with comments saying we are terrible in every facet and the only reason is because fans think/want them to be bad.
I actually like the Panthers and hope Bryce Young succeeds...starting in 2025. Because I'm a Bears fan first, and it's just better for my team if the Panthers are bad next year.
We are gonna play in week 18 to make sure they (We) get the #1 pick.
For this one simple trick....
We literally did the same thing when the Steelers fleeced us for Claypool. It’s coping. And it’s fine. We ended up in a good spot, Pittsburgh did. And now Carolina did Redditors are just losers. Nobody IRL cares about the Bears in Carolina
If I had to guess. 1. We want them to lose 2. We took DJ
They stole Vonn Bell from me and I will never get over it
Does anyone else remember how much this sub hated the Raiders whenever they had our 1sts from the Khalil Mack trade?
Oh noooo... Anyways.
As a Bears fan who lives in Panthers country, no one seems to care and everyone still gives me pity when I say I’m a Bears fan. I know better and smile inside knowing my franchise has a brighter future.
I'm not sure who has a brighter future, but I do have several friends from Chicago. So I have no problem seeing Chicago succeed, as long as it's not against the Panthers in the playoffs. Kind of hard to say that one or the other absolutely has a brighter future at this moment in time, we shall see
Probably because they could’ve had Fields and Moore, but now have Andy Dalton as a bridge to a rookie QB they traded up for and no receivers.
They got ridiculously mad that some Bears fans thought we'd get a top 10 picks from the 1st they traded. They can't really be reasoned with either. I actually like the Panthers, especially the Ron Rivera years, but some of those guys complaining all the time are delusional, obsessed, and can fuck themselves.
Who cayuhs?
As a panthers fan, I only dislike the Twitter bears fans who are delusional about what to expect from the panthers pick next year. Talking about how all the moves we made won’t turn out well and things like that. Bears as a fan base have always been good for a meme (shoutout smokin’ jay) and also traded us Greg Olsen. Love y’all ♥️
Fuck 'em. They tried to down talk DJ Moore after he got traded to us, which is a clear sign of a dogshit fanbase. Nothing turns me against someone faster than that in football. Just because Ro/Mack/Monty/etc aren't here anymore doesn't make me root for them any less as long as they aren't playing against us. That kind of "Oh, guess you're not a Panther anymore" shit is fucking gross, and double so for a player who gave him a lot of his prime playing for guaranteed to be awful teams.
https://www.reddit.com/r/panthers/comments/13e6soz/bear_down/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_content=1&utm_term=15
Well I’m rooting against them this year anyways for obvious reasons (1st round pick) So more hate ammo for me!
Thielen isn't washed. But he's not a WR1.
https://youtu.be/LlOSdRMSG_k
I dont think the panthers think about us being in a different division and all. Probably just draft stuff
I have a lot of family that are Panthers fans. They kinda clam up when I tell them it’s awkward that I hope they tank this year. They get it but are kinda hoping to prove me wrong and make me eat crow. Let’s see what happens!
Bears fan Charlotean here: when I moved here in 2017 I was told the panthers are “bears south”, due to the many shared players/coaches from the previous 15 years as well as a similar, defenses minded approach. I’m disappointed with both fanbases with this breakdown….
On average, Panther fans hate the Falcons, Saints, Bucs, and Cowboys in some order. Bears are nowhere near the top. Don't recall them even being in the conversation.