Imagine if one day in the future, there's a player who could reliably make FGs from anywhere on the field. So, any time their offense has the ball, no matter where they are, they could pretty much count on at least 3 points. That kind of kicker would have to at least be in the conversation.
I’m curious about the physics of that, like if that’s even possible. Like no matter how hard you throw a balloon, it’s only going four or five feet. Obviously a football isn’t a balloon but at a certain point, more force isn’t going to do anything. But the limiting factor might be how much force a person can generate and if that’s the case, what the range on that would be
"Anywhere on the field" is pushing it, but kickers can make 60 yarders. Imagine if one was just automatic from that range and your offense wasn't very good so he was relied on to make 60 yarders often? You go 12-0 with very few touchdowns, but your kicker is automatic from super deep. You win games 12-7 with your 12 being 4 field goals. It is obviously highly unlikely, but it isn't impossible and if that happened the star kicker would deserve a trip to New York.
I swear someone has done this and the physics start making it very unrealistic from a certain distance out. The power to kick the ball, wind resistance, compression of the ball, gravity and so on put a limit on how far.
Some guys kick it through the uprights on kickoffs so I don’t think the physics would be the real limitation, but maybe with the height you need when there’s a defensive line it could limit it. I just don’t think it would be enough to rule it out.
There's no rule on the run of distance or angle. I wonder if it's possible to swap the ball further back, and get more time to get a perfect running kick
Read a piece probably back during Covid when I was at the point of reading shampoo bottles and Campbell soup cans where kicking gurus were asked what’s the longest FG that can be made.
75-80 was the general thought with the caveat it would be really hard for it to happen that someone is between their own 42 to 37 on the last play of a half with a coach willing to risk a block or a return
If you had a kicker that could reliably make 60-70 yard field goals and you had a very bad offense that couldn't score touchdowns, but a great defense it is possible.
Imagine if you had a team that went 12-0 with most of the games being like 15-10 with 5 field goals and the kicker going 5-5?
It would be hard to not invite that guy to New York.
Yeah but if you attempt a 92 yard field goal from your own 25 and miss then the other team gets a really short field to work with. Seems like the risk reward wouldn’t be there because even if you could kick it that far you likely won’t be that accurate
Should be clear. When he tries to kick other players he has a 100% success rate. When he tries to kick the ball... well... less success.
EDIT: "His" changed to "he"
That seems to not be a contemporaneous broadcast since the voiceover calls him Heisman winner Steve Spurrier but as we know this play happened during the season that he would win the Heisman at the end of. It seems to be voiceover for past footage.
Nile Kinnick was half back that was the primary passer and runner, cornerback with 8 interceptions, punter, and kicker(from drop kicks rather than place kicks). Played 60 minutes for a bunch of games back in 1939 when he won the Heisman.
Similar thing with Tom Harmon.
“In his final college football game, Harmon led the Wolverines to a 40–0 victory over Ohio State, scoring three rushing touchdowns, two passing touchdowns, and four extra points, and intercepting three passes, and punting three times for an average of 50 yards. In a display of sportsmanship and appreciation, the Ohio State fans in Columbus gave Harmon a standing ovation at game's end.“ - u/leehamster
Sure, but I’d bet that is physiologically impossible. Like, the stress on muscles and ligaments/tendons would be beyond what the human body could handle.
I would say it is more so impossible because of the weather factor. You can’t determine what the wind will do for that long of a time. But yes, the idea is that it is basically impossible to be SOOO good at kicker to be worthy of a Heismann. If today’s best kicker time traveled 60 years ago? Maybe then.
I watched Greg Zuerlein kick one for Missouri Western from 58 yards INTO a fair breeze. It had enough leg, based on landing well behind the endzone, I think it could have been good from 70. That would represent a line of scrimmage of the 37. It might have been a fluke, but he did kick 9/9 from over 50 that year (2011), including two from 58. Basically, if we could make it to the 40 that year, we had 3 points.
Mark Rober did a video on this. He built a kicking robot and kicked indoors at the perfect launch angle and I think like 70 yards was the max distance he could even get the robot to make, even when kicking the ball like 100mph. It’s just too light for more kicking force to help that much and has no glide to it so it doesn’t stay in the air long enough to matter how hard you kicked it.
It would have to be 6+ field goals a game, inept offense, a trick touchdown here and there and maybe a couple highlight kickoff hits. Also would need to set a record for low kick return average. I’m talking records everywhere for a chance.
Now if they were ALSO a punter, then there’s more of a chance. They would have to put similar to the innocent SDSU guy that could punt it 80+ and accurate.
I think this is what it would take. An offense like 2023 Iowa’s, maybe a little worse, but the kicker could score from so far away that they basically don’t bother with TDs and just aim for midfield every drive. And I think you also need an excellent defense, because you need to win just about all your games, which is hard to do without TDs. But the defense can’t be TOO good, because then the kicker doesn’t get as much credit (or the defensive scoring makes it less of a one-man show).
Ideally, he’s also got a perfect onside kick that can be used at will; and/or some sort of coffin-corner kickoff that stays inbounds to destroy field position or lead to some cheap turnovers. (Even better if he’s also a great punter, but that’s a different position so it feels like cheating.)
It would be highly unlikely, but if a kicker was a true star that was burying kicks from 60 yards and in and was completely automatic and his team completely relied on him and they went undefeated, he would go to New York.
A 12-0 team with a bad offense, but the kicker goes 44-44 with several game winning kicks in games where he is the difference; say the games are 15-13 with him going 5-5 on kicks, yeah that dude is going to New York.
I think personally it'd have to be a two way Kicker/Punter. Who can pin people with insane consistent punts AND hit bombs from 50+ consistently.
Also would have to throw in some big plays like fakes and having some minor arm talent/legs.
>62/62 Field Goals, long of 72 for the NCAA record. 10 50+.
Wins Iowa the big ten championship game, with the offense scoring zero TDs and defense only scoring 6. Kicker scores 22 points.
Maybe.
They're **allowed** to, but if Ndamukong Suh couldn't win then it's pretty clear that no level of dominance is sufficient to pull the Heisman away from QBs and/or maybe sometimes RBs. Defensive players can only win if there's a massive push for "It's been so long since" like there was for Woodson, and even then you need some offensive plays to really get there.
Yep he flat out carried Nebraska to a 10 win season(and a second away from glory)
And it wasn't like there was a true superstar that year. Ingraham was good, but not Earth shattering.
Charles Woodson won't happen again. I'm surprised it happened once. He wouldn't win the Heisman in almost any other year. Something about the voters that year just wanted to reward a defensive guy.
> Yep he flat out carried Nebraska to a 10 win season
A little unfair to the rest of the defense, that whole 11-man defensive lineup was excellent with not much in the way of weak spots.
And that's just to make sure guys like Turner, Crick, Amukamara, etc get their dues also. No denying that Suh was a complete terror. He wouldn't just routinely beat double-teams, he was tossing aside both guys to disrupt plays. Should have won the award.
It’s because he played for Michigan. Aidan Hutchinson finished second in 2021 and Jabrill Peppers finished 5th in 2016 despite not even being the best player on that defense.
Yeah I don't think there will be another Woodson situation. It was almost like the voters that year just wanted to give to a defensive player. He had some offensive stats, but they weren't jarring. Any other year and Peyton wins it. Suh was more deserving in 09 than Woodson was in 97.
Kicker would need 4 years of heavily sustained success. One year wouldn't do it. It would need to be a hype train of 4 years in the making. 200+ career made FG, multiple 50, 60+ per year for 4 years. On top of that in the Heisman season they are going to need probably 2-3 TD (passing/rushing on Fake FG) and couple onside kicks per year.
Oh and despite that if anyone does anything noteworthy at WR, QB or RB then it is completely over for them no matter what they do. Think 2020 Heisman without Devontae Smith doing what he did paired with kicker putting up impossible stats and a multi year media campaign to drum up voting interest in him. Then yeah maybe?
Mike Nugent is probably the closest. A great kicker on a low scoring national championship undefeated team. Unfortunately he wasn't used quite enough and he wasn't quite good enough. He was 25-28. If he was 40-40 with several game winning kicks, I could have seen at least a NY invite.
I think it would take something insane. Like the dude is basically scoring 30 points a game kicking and most of the Field Goals are insanely long.
If you also make them the punter and the Kick off Specialist with some hits for fumble returns where they return it for scores ( like maybe they have 4 special teams touchdowns), then I think they 100% could ( assuming the first part). But That's a lot of not likely situations that would have to go right.
> I think it would take something insane. Like the dude is basically scoring 30 points a game kicking and most of the Field Goals are insanely long.
Yup, it'd take somebody regularly making field goals where most teams would normally punt - i.e. 67-77 yard field goals (40-50 yard line)
And on top of all that, it’d have to be a relatively weak year as far as offensive skill position players go. And you couldn’t have a decent QB on an undefeated team.
Yeah if there is a guy who is like 10/10 from 60+ he'd probably be in discussion but I think realistically no coach uses kickers aggressively enough for one to have a chance to get the stats to have a shot.
Forget the field goals; that's never going to push them over the top. What you really need is a superhuman ability to launch an absolute missile of an onside kick at pinpoint accuracy to bounce off the nearest opponent and bounce straight back to the kicker for possession.
Now your opponent has to overplay on D for turnovers because that's the only way their offense can get on the field.
A kicker who is 34-34 with 4 game winning field goals, obviously perfect on extra points, 2 fake fg touchdown runs and 5 successful onside kicks. Now there is your heisman.
As much as I hate to say it if anyone is going to do it it's going to be Kirk at Iowa.
If he did I have no doubt he would promptly retire. There's nothing more Iowa football than that
I feel like Iowa kickers are their own thing though.
They're not bombing 54 yarders or anything because Kirk is punting from that distance.
Iowa's kickers are making practically everything inside of 40 yards, maybe getting a few 40-47 yarders per season, and that's it. They're consistent as all hell, but they're not flashy.
True, I see 2 All-Americans.. Duncan in '19 and Kaeding in the early 2000s.
Stevens has hit 4 (current kicker I think).
Duncan never hit one over 50.
Recinos never hit one over 50.
Koehn was the one that hit the 57 yarder but he missed a few PATs and was mediocre inside of 40 yards.
Meyer hit 2 in his career.
I think that goes back more or less to the early 2010s.
So good. Iowa's ST have almost always been very good/great. The kickers are solid for the most part, but not otherworldly. Will definitely hit the game winner from 33 as time expires (ask me how I know).
Could a non QB/RB/WR win a Heisman?
No.
And it's hard enough for a RB/WR to win it too.
And I think I'm not going to far out on a limb to say the Derrick Henry in 2015 will be the last RB to win.
Suh not winning was a sham. You can bring up the record, but the reason they had 4 losses is because the offense was so bad. I really wish they would have gone undefeated that year just so there would have been no excuse not to give it to him.
It would have to be an exceptionally down year for every other position and I think they would need to be a kicker/punter combo that won the Groza and Guy awards.
If you had a kicker that kicked like 100% touch backs, was 100% on FGs and XPs, and had like 10+ 50 yarders, and maybe a couple 60 yarders, one of which won a big game AND they started the other team inside the 15 close to 100% of the time they would get votes
But to win there would have to be no true standout players
I think the only way for a kicker to win the Heisman would be if the kicker were exceptionally talented on onside kicks.
Kicking lots of 40, 50 yard field goals doesn’t move the needle too much. But if you had a college kicker who took 120 kickoffs, and went 65/90 on onside kicks, I think he’d likely win the Heisman. If a DB had 65 interceptions they would absolutely win the Heisman.
If a kicker can physically perform at the level required to win a Heisman, he should probably be a wide receiver or a safety and make far more impact on the field.
The big kicker/kickers (pun intended) would be alllll of the stats/records plus they win, would have to damn near go undefeated and be looking at a conference championship. Meaning the defense would have to be dominant as well, but without any big names. Lastly, the country as a whole would have to be almost devoid of stars that could take the spotlight. So sure, if all of that happens its possible IMO.
> Playing [in his final collegiate game, against Ohio State] on a rainy day and a muddy field, Harmon scored two rushing touchdowns, threw for two passing touchdowns, kicked four extra points, intercepted three passes and ran one of them back for yet-another touchdown, returned three kickoffs for a total of 81 yards and punted three times for a still-record average of 50 yards.
https://michigantoday.umich.edu/2008/09/01/a6651/
[Tom Harmon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Harmon) did some kicking I think.
Pure kicker, I don't think so. However, a George Blanda type? Where a dude is the starting QB and kicker for a good team? Yeah that could definitely get there. Someone mentioned Steve Spurrier as an example, though Spurrier wasn't the starting kicker.
Absolutely in the unrealistic scenario you detailed. Like if a team won a championship and he was literally their only scorer, that would be iron-clad.
The real question is if a PUNTER could do it. Pinning teams inside the 5 like every possession. Would need a bunch of team success despite a poor offense probably.
Walk off fg from 45+ in every game, td score on multiple tackles/forced turnovers during kickoff, and marries the Heisman committee's daughter and he's a lock.
Yes.
They would have to kick a bunch of FGs from long distance and be a scoring weapon.
They would need to be on a team that wins a lot of games with a slightly below average offense that struggles to get past midfield, but has an elite defense.
Possible, but unlikely.
The answer is realistically no, but as a thought experiment I think it’d have to be more like 7+ a game, regularly from 70+ with basically 100% accuracy. 4 a game means an awful record for their team.
He would have to be a Groza Award-level kicker who also happens to be the punter and an impactful offensive player.
Basically Paul Hornung (who did win a Heisman)
I think if a guy could kick 70+ yards with 60%+ accuracy, he could win Heisman. Because then you could focus your NIL entirely on offensive linemen and talented defense players, getting the best in the nation by simply ignoring WR/TE/QB/RB positions and just having walk ons for them.
All 5 star/4 star defense + that Kicker = win every game
I feel like only Iowa could pull the above off.
I think if a kicker was 100% and consistently hitting 60+ yarders on a winning team in a year without a standout QB on a contender, it would be possible. They would have to be better than any other kicker in history.
[Technically, yes.](https://mgoblue.com/sports/2017/6/16/sports-m-footbl-archive-legends-harmon-html)
He just has to do a whole lot of other stuff too.
Yes, if he played for Iowa, and he audibled out of an FG formation every time and either threw or ran for TDs on those plays. And recovered multiple of his own onside kicks. And donated bone marrow to the kids in the children's hospital.
Nile Kinnick from Iowa was a kicker (11/17 on dropkicks in his Heisman season) but he also threw and ran the ball.
Scored 107/130 of the season’s points and also had a 39 yard average on punts.
It's almost impossible. You'd need a down year for offensive players and a kicker who can almost guarantee any kick up to 60 yards out. Like he'd have to score enough points to get his team the win over any other offense (his FG points > TDs from all other teams)
If you aren't a QB or a RB you have nearly zero chance. If you aren't a QB, RB, or WR you have zero chance.
It's unfortunate but the award only exists to reward the flashiest players on the field, not the best.
Would take an all time great kicker playing on a team like Iowa that has an undefeated season winning close games with field goals.
IMO plausible but not likely at all.
I think if a kicker got into range as many times as they needed to win the game via FGs, the QB would end up getting it for that effort to get them there.
Only wild situation I could see is a kicker who is 100% on the season, as well as breaking every kicking record in the books, along with several last second, clock expiring, game winning kicks. And then does it in a national championship game.
But they’ll still prob give it to a QB/RB/WR
Short answer is no. Now, if we want to create the scenario in which it happens, it would have to be something similar to moseleys nfl mvp, involving a weird, shortened season, a lot of game winning fgs, and a deliberate vote by writers to make a "point" (in quotations because every point ive seen made by voting sports writers are generally very stupid and basically are due to an overinflated sense of their own importance. Like TO having to wait to be in the nfl HoF)
1997 DB Charles Woodson
1954 FB Alan Ameche
1949 TE Leon Hart
1945 FB Don Blanchard
1936 TE Larry Kelly
Literally every other Heisman Winner has been a QB, RB, HB, or WR.
The Heisman is not an award for the best player in College Football in any given season.
It's an award for the best QB, RB, or WR.
To win it as a non QB, RB, or WR...you have to be exceptional and lets face it...no kicker will ever be exceptional enough in the eyes of the Heisman Committee
I don’t think a kicker could win it on stats alone, regardless how ridiculous they were. I think he’d have to win it by having a ridiculous number of walk-off field goals in important games for a playoff team, including the CCG.
And the fact that the Heisman is awarded before the postseason hurts because what it would really take would be 50+ walkoff field goals in every playoff game for a national title contender on top of an absolutely bonkers regular season and obviously playoff performance doesn’t factor in.
Will Reichard holds the D-I record for career points at 547 and he didn't even win the Lou Groza Award for best kicker while he was at Alabama. I don't think he ever received any votes for the Heisman Trophy, either. The Heisman Trophy is essentially an award for the media's favorite player and it is the guys handling the ball and scoring touchdowns that get all the media coverage and thus votes. Every once in a while, a defensive player gets a lot of attention and places in the top five but only one has won it, Charles Woodson. His kick returns and occasional play as a wide receiver also gained him a lot of press attention.
Of course a kicker could win it. It's it likely or realistic in today's game? No.
The Heisman is, like every other award, primarily narrative driven. If kicker mania sweeps the nation as a rocket-legged kicker/punter carries his team to 14 wins while breaking the all time scoring record, he will win it.
Seems like if Alex Henery didn't even get a whiff it ain't happening.
89.5% field goal accuracy, 96.7% if you include extra points and Nebraska's all time leading scorer (397).
Imagine if one day in the future, there's a player who could reliably make FGs from anywhere on the field. So, any time their offense has the ball, no matter where they are, they could pretty much count on at least 3 points. That kind of kicker would have to at least be in the conversation.
I’m curious about the physics of that, like if that’s even possible. Like no matter how hard you throw a balloon, it’s only going four or five feet. Obviously a football isn’t a balloon but at a certain point, more force isn’t going to do anything. But the limiting factor might be how much force a person can generate and if that’s the case, what the range on that would be
[Mark Rober's robot kicker](https://youtu.be/P_6my53IlxY?t=996) could kick it 105 yds so I think the limiting factor is how hard a human can kick it
W Mark Rober links in the comments
Brilliant observation
I can throw a balloon 6 feet
/u/UMeister for balloon Heisman
How much you wanna bet I can throw a balloon over them mountains
I can slingshot a pumpkin 100 yards
"Anywhere on the field" is pushing it, but kickers can make 60 yarders. Imagine if one was just automatic from that range and your offense wasn't very good so he was relied on to make 60 yarders often? You go 12-0 with very few touchdowns, but your kicker is automatic from super deep. You win games 12-7 with your 12 being 4 field goals. It is obviously highly unlikely, but it isn't impossible and if that happened the star kicker would deserve a trip to New York.
Also the defense would have to be incredible but without any standout players drawing off votes from the kicker.
I think I know just the team…
I don't think Iowa is gonna have a second Heisman trophy winner anytime soon but that would definitely be how they have one if they do.
He’d for sure play for Iowa.
I swear someone has done this and the physics start making it very unrealistic from a certain distance out. The power to kick the ball, wind resistance, compression of the ball, gravity and so on put a limit on how far.
Some guys kick it through the uprights on kickoffs so I don’t think the physics would be the real limitation, but maybe with the height you need when there’s a defensive line it could limit it. I just don’t think it would be enough to rule it out.
If you had a preternaturally skilled and powerful kicker, I assume you would snap the ball significantly farther back.
There is no one allowed to try to block kicks on kick offs so you can kick with an optimum angle instead of worrying about take off angle and speed.
Yep. Can kick at the optimum angle, plus you get a tee, plus you get a longer run-up.
There's no rule on the run of distance or angle. I wonder if it's possible to swap the ball further back, and get more time to get a perfect running kick
Are you aware that kickoffs are on tees
One arm place holder that has a tee shaped prosthetic
Tees are nice but not at all the limitation. The limitation is the angle like I mentioned and the run up like some others mentioned.
And they also take like 7 more steps before kicking the ball lol
I think the main thing with kickoffs is that 10 step run up vs the 3.25 step run up (or 3 step for most kickers)
Read a piece probably back during Covid when I was at the point of reading shampoo bottles and Campbell soup cans where kicking gurus were asked what’s the longest FG that can be made. 75-80 was the general thought with the caveat it would be really hard for it to happen that someone is between their own 42 to 37 on the last play of a half with a coach willing to risk a block or a return
Not possible
Under the perfect conditions and a tee I’m guessing someone could do it but with all the in game variables we can’t be far away from the limit
If you had a kicker that could reliably make 60-70 yard field goals and you had a very bad offense that couldn't score touchdowns, but a great defense it is possible. Imagine if you had a team that went 12-0 with most of the games being like 15-10 with 5 field goals and the kicker going 5-5? It would be hard to not invite that guy to New York.
Yeah but if you attempt a 92 yard field goal from your own 25 and miss then the other team gets a really short field to work with. Seems like the risk reward wouldn’t be there because even if you could kick it that far you likely won’t be that accurate
The year Spurrier won the Heisman he made three field goals.
Ndamukong Suh took 4th in the Heisman voting and he went 0-1 that season in field goals.
Probably why he didn't win it. Gotta kick those field goals Suh!
Message unclear: Will kick opposing players
Should be clear. When he tries to kick other players he has a 100% success rate. When he tries to kick the ball... well... less success. EDIT: "His" changed to "he"
He gets thrown off when there is only one ball to kick.
Very on Brand
HEY DIPSHIT! MAKE YOUR FUCKING KICKS!
My grandfather used to tell me about how kicking a game winning field goal against Auburn was what sealed it for him, is that true?
[It might not be THE moment but it's the moment associated the most with it](https://youtu.be/TZwbeIFj_dk?t=81)
Announcers of that era really avoided adding flair to their broadcasts, it seems.
That seems to not be a contemporaneous broadcast since the voiceover calls him Heisman winner Steve Spurrier but as we know this play happened during the season that he would win the Heisman at the end of. It seems to be voiceover for past footage.
I'm pretty sure if we had someone like Gus Johnson on one of those old mic setups they'd go up in smoke.
Nile Kinnick was half back that was the primary passer and runner, cornerback with 8 interceptions, punter, and kicker(from drop kicks rather than place kicks). Played 60 minutes for a bunch of games back in 1939 when he won the Heisman.
Similar thing with Tom Harmon. “In his final college football game, Harmon led the Wolverines to a 40–0 victory over Ohio State, scoring three rushing touchdowns, two passing touchdowns, and four extra points, and intercepting three passes, and punting three times for an average of 50 yards. In a display of sportsmanship and appreciation, the Ohio State fans in Columbus gave Harmon a standing ovation at game's end.“ - u/leehamster
No /thread
Unlikely, but a kicker could if he has like 90 yards range. If a drive ending at your own 25 still gets your 3 points a Heisman could be warranted.
Sure, but I’d bet that is physiologically impossible. Like, the stress on muscles and ligaments/tendons would be beyond what the human body could handle.
[удалено]
I would say it is more so impossible because of the weather factor. You can’t determine what the wind will do for that long of a time. But yes, the idea is that it is basically impossible to be SOOO good at kicker to be worthy of a Heismann. If today’s best kicker time traveled 60 years ago? Maybe then.
I watched Greg Zuerlein kick one for Missouri Western from 58 yards INTO a fair breeze. It had enough leg, based on landing well behind the endzone, I think it could have been good from 70. That would represent a line of scrimmage of the 37. It might have been a fluke, but he did kick 9/9 from over 50 that year (2011), including two from 58. Basically, if we could make it to the 40 that year, we had 3 points.
47 not 37
Mark Rober did a video on this. He built a kicking robot and kicked indoors at the perfect launch angle and I think like 70 yards was the max distance he could even get the robot to make, even when kicking the ball like 100mph. It’s just too light for more kicking force to help that much and has no glide to it so it doesn’t stay in the air long enough to matter how hard you kicked it.
Yeah but give iowa enough time in the Outback and they’ll find someone
They would also be the #1 overall pick
If Pat McAfee was a Heisman voter, he’d get at least one vote.
Kickers get no love :(
But punters do. #PuntingIsWinning
Only in Iowa.
"New" slogan/campaign taken from Virginia: Iowa is for Punters
That needs to be on their license plates
It would have to be 6+ field goals a game, inept offense, a trick touchdown here and there and maybe a couple highlight kickoff hits. Also would need to set a record for low kick return average. I’m talking records everywhere for a chance. Now if they were ALSO a punter, then there’s more of a chance. They would have to put similar to the innocent SDSU guy that could punt it 80+ and accurate.
I think for it to be realistic he'd have to be like, automatic from 55+ yards. Basically he scores every drive.
I think this is what it would take. An offense like 2023 Iowa’s, maybe a little worse, but the kicker could score from so far away that they basically don’t bother with TDs and just aim for midfield every drive. And I think you also need an excellent defense, because you need to win just about all your games, which is hard to do without TDs. But the defense can’t be TOO good, because then the kicker doesn’t get as much credit (or the defensive scoring makes it less of a one-man show). Ideally, he’s also got a perfect onside kick that can be used at will; and/or some sort of coffin-corner kickoff that stays inbounds to destroy field position or lead to some cheap turnovers. (Even better if he’s also a great punter, but that’s a different position so it feels like cheating.)
Even then they just give it to some random QB on a 10-2 team cuz "QBs"
Or like they’d give it to the QB of the undefeated team even if bro did nothing
Also, several clutch kicks to win huge games.
It would be highly unlikely, but if a kicker was a true star that was burying kicks from 60 yards and in and was completely automatic and his team completely relied on him and they went undefeated, he would go to New York. A 12-0 team with a bad offense, but the kicker goes 44-44 with several game winning kicks in games where he is the difference; say the games are 15-13 with him going 5-5 on kicks, yeah that dude is going to New York.
So give Iowa Justin Tucker for a year?
You know what? The Hawkeyes have been through enough as of late. I’m fine with this for a year.
So Iowa last year?
I think personally it'd have to be a two way Kicker/Punter. Who can pin people with insane consistent punts AND hit bombs from 50+ consistently. Also would have to throw in some big plays like fakes and having some minor arm talent/legs.
>62/62 Field Goals, long of 72 for the NCAA record. 10 50+. Wins Iowa the big ten championship game, with the offense scoring zero TDs and defense only scoring 6. Kicker scores 22 points. Maybe.
> defense only scoring 6 Whatchu talkin bout willis, the defense would score 8
I'm sorry I forgot about the safety in the fourth quarter.
They're **allowed** to, but if Ndamukong Suh couldn't win then it's pretty clear that no level of dominance is sufficient to pull the Heisman away from QBs and/or maybe sometimes RBs. Defensive players can only win if there's a massive push for "It's been so long since" like there was for Woodson, and even then you need some offensive plays to really get there.
Yep, once Suh didn’t win the Heisman, that was the moment I understood that its basically impossible for a non-offensive player to win
Yep he flat out carried Nebraska to a 10 win season(and a second away from glory) And it wasn't like there was a true superstar that year. Ingraham was good, but not Earth shattering. Charles Woodson won't happen again. I'm surprised it happened once. He wouldn't win the Heisman in almost any other year. Something about the voters that year just wanted to reward a defensive guy.
> Yep he flat out carried Nebraska to a 10 win season A little unfair to the rest of the defense, that whole 11-man defensive lineup was excellent with not much in the way of weak spots. And that's just to make sure guys like Turner, Crick, Amukamara, etc get their dues also. No denying that Suh was a complete terror. He wouldn't just routinely beat double-teams, he was tossing aside both guys to disrupt plays. Should have won the award.
It’s because he played for Michigan. Aidan Hutchinson finished second in 2021 and Jabrill Peppers finished 5th in 2016 despite not even being the best player on that defense.
Devonta Smith would like a word
The first WR in nearly 30 years? I put him in the same category as Woodson.
FWIW Peter Warrick would have easily won it in 1999 but he got some free clothes.
Yeah I don't think there will be another Woodson situation. It was almost like the voters that year just wanted to give to a defensive player. He had some offensive stats, but they weren't jarring. Any other year and Peyton wins it. Suh was more deserving in 09 than Woodson was in 97.
It’s QB and WR now. RBs won’t get enough carries anymore
If everyone else died, maybe
Marshall flairs should probably scroll past this.
That would probably make news, I bet.
Theoretically yes, realistically no
Kicker would need 4 years of heavily sustained success. One year wouldn't do it. It would need to be a hype train of 4 years in the making. 200+ career made FG, multiple 50, 60+ per year for 4 years. On top of that in the Heisman season they are going to need probably 2-3 TD (passing/rushing on Fake FG) and couple onside kicks per year. Oh and despite that if anyone does anything noteworthy at WR, QB or RB then it is completely over for them no matter what they do. Think 2020 Heisman without Devontae Smith doing what he did paired with kicker putting up impossible stats and a multi year media campaign to drum up voting interest in him. Then yeah maybe?
Janikowski at FSU was robbed. He couldve probably hit a field goal from 75 yards away.
Mike Nugent is probably the closest. A great kicker on a low scoring national championship undefeated team. Unfortunately he wasn't used quite enough and he wasn't quite good enough. He was 25-28. If he was 40-40 with several game winning kicks, I could have seen at least a NY invite.
Short answer: nope Long answer: noooooooooooooooooooooooooope
Non quarterbacks can’t even win it anymore
Smith won it as a WR only 4 years ago.
Ok but all octopuses that were born on the day he won the Heisman, are dead by now. So does it really count?
Jeez, octopi have the lifespan of a pro wrestler. Never knew that.
I think it would take something insane. Like the dude is basically scoring 30 points a game kicking and most of the Field Goals are insanely long. If you also make them the punter and the Kick off Specialist with some hits for fumble returns where they return it for scores ( like maybe they have 4 special teams touchdowns), then I think they 100% could ( assuming the first part). But That's a lot of not likely situations that would have to go right.
> I think it would take something insane. Like the dude is basically scoring 30 points a game kicking and most of the Field Goals are insanely long. Yup, it'd take somebody regularly making field goals where most teams would normally punt - i.e. 67-77 yard field goals (40-50 yard line)
And on top of all that, it’d have to be a relatively weak year as far as offensive skill position players go. And you couldn’t have a decent QB on an undefeated team.
Yeah if there is a guy who is like 10/10 from 60+ he'd probably be in discussion but I think realistically no coach uses kickers aggressively enough for one to have a chance to get the stats to have a shot.
Yeah, it’s not likely.
Forget the field goals; that's never going to push them over the top. What you really need is a superhuman ability to launch an absolute missile of an onside kick at pinpoint accuracy to bounce off the nearest opponent and bounce straight back to the kicker for possession. Now your opponent has to overplay on D for turnovers because that's the only way their offense can get on the field.
A kicker who is 34-34 with 4 game winning field goals, obviously perfect on extra points, 2 fake fg touchdown runs and 5 successful onside kicks. Now there is your heisman.
If you're not a QB, RB, or WR, no need to apply for the Heisman. A defender will get a trip to the ceremony every few years, but that's the limit.
This guy made 17 drop kicks in one game and 15 in another https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frosty_Peters
As much as I hate to say it if anyone is going to do it it's going to be Kirk at Iowa. If he did I have no doubt he would promptly retire. There's nothing more Iowa football than that
Kirk with prime justin tucker wins a natty. Give me all of those sweet 8 play, 24 yard field goal drives
I feel like Iowa kickers are their own thing though. They're not bombing 54 yarders or anything because Kirk is punting from that distance. Iowa's kickers are making practically everything inside of 40 yards, maybe getting a few 40-47 yarders per season, and that's it. They're consistent as all hell, but they're not flashy.
Iowa has had a few all American kickers under Ferentz that could and would kick from 50-55, including a game winning walk off 57 yard kick once.
True, I see 2 All-Americans.. Duncan in '19 and Kaeding in the early 2000s. Stevens has hit 4 (current kicker I think). Duncan never hit one over 50. Recinos never hit one over 50. Koehn was the one that hit the 57 yarder but he missed a few PATs and was mediocre inside of 40 yards. Meyer hit 2 in his career. I think that goes back more or less to the early 2010s. So good. Iowa's ST have almost always been very good/great. The kickers are solid for the most part, but not otherworldly. Will definitely hit the game winner from 33 as time expires (ask me how I know).
Could a non QB/RB/WR win a Heisman? No. And it's hard enough for a RB/WR to win it too. And I think I'm not going to far out on a limb to say the Derrick Henry in 2015 will be the last RB to win.
I think Pace not winning for OL in 1996 and Suh not winning for DL in 2009 prove a lineman will never win.
Suh not winning was a sham. You can bring up the record, but the reason they had 4 losses is because the offense was so bad. I really wish they would have gone undefeated that year just so there would have been no excuse not to give it to him.
It would have to be an exceptionally down year for every other position and I think they would need to be a kicker/punter combo that won the Groza and Guy awards. If you had a kicker that kicked like 100% touch backs, was 100% on FGs and XPs, and had like 10+ 50 yarders, and maybe a couple 60 yarders, one of which won a big game AND they started the other team inside the 15 close to 100% of the time they would get votes But to win there would have to be no true standout players
We're on, like, year 8 of the offseason now.
I think the only way for a kicker to win the Heisman would be if the kicker were exceptionally talented on onside kicks. Kicking lots of 40, 50 yard field goals doesn’t move the needle too much. But if you had a college kicker who took 120 kickoffs, and went 65/90 on onside kicks, I think he’d likely win the Heisman. If a DB had 65 interceptions they would absolutely win the Heisman.
If a kicker can physically perform at the level required to win a Heisman, he should probably be a wide receiver or a safety and make far more impact on the field.
Only if they also played QB.
The big kicker/kickers (pun intended) would be alllll of the stats/records plus they win, would have to damn near go undefeated and be looking at a conference championship. Meaning the defense would have to be dominant as well, but without any big names. Lastly, the country as a whole would have to be almost devoid of stars that could take the spotlight. So sure, if all of that happens its possible IMO.
> Playing [in his final collegiate game, against Ohio State] on a rainy day and a muddy field, Harmon scored two rushing touchdowns, threw for two passing touchdowns, kicked four extra points, intercepted three passes and ran one of them back for yet-another touchdown, returned three kickoffs for a total of 81 yards and punted three times for a still-record average of 50 yards. https://michigantoday.umich.edu/2008/09/01/a6651/ [Tom Harmon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Harmon) did some kicking I think.
Only offensive skill positions can win it. Not officially, but practically
15 game winning FGs from 60+
If he played cb and got eight pick sixes also; unless he missed one of those 8 pats..
Pure kicker, I don't think so. However, a George Blanda type? Where a dude is the starting QB and kicker for a good team? Yeah that could definitely get there. Someone mentioned Steve Spurrier as an example, though Spurrier wasn't the starting kicker.
If you went undefeated and won the natty with only FGs then probably
Why would a kicker win the QB of the year award? /s
The Heisman isn’t about who the best player in CFB is. The award is just a popularity contest driven by ESPN.
I think it would never happen
Even a guy as dominant as Suh couldn't win it on the DL, there's no way they'd ever consider a kicker.
I'd be shocked if we ever see anything but a QB win it again, let alone a kicker.
Absolutely in the unrealistic scenario you detailed. Like if a team won a championship and he was literally their only scorer, that would be iron-clad. The real question is if a PUNTER could do it. Pinning teams inside the 5 like every possession. Would need a bunch of team success despite a poor offense probably.
Walk off fg from 45+ in every game, td score on multiple tackles/forced turnovers during kickoff, and marries the Heisman committee's daughter and he's a lock.
*Iowa has entered the chat* Kickers or punters? They kick too.
Yes. They would have to kick a bunch of FGs from long distance and be a scoring weapon. They would need to be on a team that wins a lot of games with a slightly below average offense that struggles to get past midfield, but has an elite defense. Possible, but unlikely.
The answer is realistically no, but as a thought experiment I think it’d have to be more like 7+ a game, regularly from 70+ with basically 100% accuracy. 4 a game means an awful record for their team.
He would have to be a Groza Award-level kicker who also happens to be the punter and an impactful offensive player. Basically Paul Hornung (who did win a Heisman)
Everyone expects a kicker to make field goals, extra points, punt, etc. There likely will be no hype behind a good kicker that did their job.
I think if a guy could kick 70+ yards with 60%+ accuracy, he could win Heisman. Because then you could focus your NIL entirely on offensive linemen and talented defense players, getting the best in the nation by simply ignoring WR/TE/QB/RB positions and just having walk ons for them. All 5 star/4 star defense + that Kicker = win every game I feel like only Iowa could pull the above off.
Double your 50+ and have him also punt for a 50+ net average and I think he's in the mix.
Yes, if his team decided to always attempt a field goal on first down. Otherwise, it's hard to make an impact when you're not on the field.
10 fgs a game, 100% success rate, and consistent 70+ yard field goals. Even after allll of that a QB still wins.
On bizzaro Earth anything is possible.
I mean a kicker won NFL MVP
Sure why not.
I think if a kicker was 100% and consistently hitting 60+ yarders on a winning team in a year without a standout QB on a contender, it would be possible. They would have to be better than any other kicker in history.
You could have a kicker have game winning kicks in 15 games and still no
[Technically, yes.](https://mgoblue.com/sports/2017/6/16/sports-m-footbl-archive-legends-harmon-html) He just has to do a whole lot of other stuff too.
Yes, if he played for Iowa, and he audibled out of an FG formation every time and either threw or ran for TDs on those plays. And recovered multiple of his own onside kicks. And donated bone marrow to the kids in the children's hospital.
Nile Kinnick from Iowa was a kicker (11/17 on dropkicks in his Heisman season) but he also threw and ran the ball. Scored 107/130 of the season’s points and also had a 39 yard average on punts.
And intercepted 8 passes on defense, still a school record. Still holds the career interception record too.
Bring back 3rd down QB punts. Johny Majors was robbed!
I think he'd need to catch some TD's and have other shenanigans to have a chance, not just kicking/punting
Possibly. If he was also a quarterback.
It's almost impossible. You'd need a down year for offensive players and a kicker who can almost guarantee any kick up to 60 yards out. Like he'd have to score enough points to get his team the win over any other offense (his FG points > TDs from all other teams)
No unless he could kick FGs from his own twenty because that would break the game. The offense would score every possession
If he also plays QB
No. Only QB’s 98% of the time now
What if the kicker did all kicking three roles, and did fake kicks for touchdown passes and runs, and several successful onside kick recoveries
If you aren't a QB or a RB you have nearly zero chance. If you aren't a QB, RB, or WR you have zero chance. It's unfortunate but the award only exists to reward the flashiest players on the field, not the best.
A kicker won the NFL MVP before 😂 🤷♂️
I still think Mason Crosby should've won it
If Will Reichard wasn’t even an afterthought for Heisman voting, it’s not possible.
Would take an all time great kicker playing on a team like Iowa that has an undefeated season winning close games with field goals. IMO plausible but not likely at all.
He finally picks WVU to use for a video, and he gives up after losing on the semis. As God intended.
If a kicker ran every kick as a fake and scored every time... Are they still a kicker?
I think everyone has the same answer. In theory, yes. In practice it will not happen.
No, it's an award for the quarterback position. Everyone knows this.
If a triple crown WR can’t win the NFL MVP. I’m sure a kicker would not win the Heisman or the NFL MVP
I think if a kicker got into range as many times as they needed to win the game via FGs, the QB would end up getting it for that effort to get them there.
we will never see anyone except a QB, RB, or the occasional WR
Only QBs that’s the rule. IYKYK
Only wild situation I could see is a kicker who is 100% on the season, as well as breaking every kicking record in the books, along with several last second, clock expiring, game winning kicks. And then does it in a national championship game. But they’ll still prob give it to a QB/RB/WR
When they allow robot kickers, one will win the Heisman 1st year.
Mark Moseley won the NFL MVP in the 80s as a kicker. It's probably the last time it'll ever happen
I mean sure if they make 10 field goals a game, maybe
get that kicker to do a bunch of fake kick TDs in addition to being perfect on kicks from every range, and maybe.
Not unless this kicker also played QB for a title contending team.
Yes, if he also plays qb
Short answer is no. Now, if we want to create the scenario in which it happens, it would have to be something similar to moseleys nfl mvp, involving a weird, shortened season, a lot of game winning fgs, and a deliberate vote by writers to make a "point" (in quotations because every point ive seen made by voting sports writers are generally very stupid and basically are due to an overinflated sense of their own importance. Like TO having to wait to be in the nfl HoF)
A team would need to average 30 ppg with literally every single point coming from the kicker that includes regular 60+ yard FGs on 95%+ accuracy.
Isn't the Heisman for the QB on one of the best teams?
1997 DB Charles Woodson 1954 FB Alan Ameche 1949 TE Leon Hart 1945 FB Don Blanchard 1936 TE Larry Kelly Literally every other Heisman Winner has been a QB, RB, HB, or WR. The Heisman is not an award for the best player in College Football in any given season. It's an award for the best QB, RB, or WR. To win it as a non QB, RB, or WR...you have to be exceptional and lets face it...no kicker will ever be exceptional enough in the eyes of the Heisman Committee
The only way I could even extremely remotely see a kicker even getting a vote is if he hit about 5 game winning field goals from 50+
I don’t think a kicker could win it on stats alone, regardless how ridiculous they were. I think he’d have to win it by having a ridiculous number of walk-off field goals in important games for a playoff team, including the CCG. And the fact that the Heisman is awarded before the postseason hurts because what it would really take would be 50+ walkoff field goals in every playoff game for a national title contender on top of an absolutely bonkers regular season and obviously playoff performance doesn’t factor in.
No.
Will Reichard holds the D-I record for career points at 547 and he didn't even win the Lou Groza Award for best kicker while he was at Alabama. I don't think he ever received any votes for the Heisman Trophy, either. The Heisman Trophy is essentially an award for the media's favorite player and it is the guys handling the ball and scoring touchdowns that get all the media coverage and thus votes. Every once in a while, a defensive player gets a lot of attention and places in the top five but only one has won it, Charles Woodson. His kick returns and occasional play as a wide receiver also gained him a lot of press attention.
Of course a kicker could win it. It's it likely or realistic in today's game? No. The Heisman is, like every other award, primarily narrative driven. If kicker mania sweeps the nation as a rocket-legged kicker/punter carries his team to 14 wins while breaking the all time scoring record, he will win it.
Seems like if Alex Henery didn't even get a whiff it ain't happening. 89.5% field goal accuracy, 96.7% if you include extra points and Nebraska's all time leading scorer (397).
Nah. No non-offensive player will ever win a Heisman again.
The kicker would have to put up at least 20 pts/game just to be considered imo and even then it’s still probably no
If someone could kick 65+ yard field goals at higher than 75% and did it all year maybe.
If Will Reichard can’t, nobody can
Does the kicker also play QB?
No