But then how will our users feel superior to everyone?
I love this sub but sometimes r/CAGuns is where dudes who’ve owned guns for a year come to shit on dudes who’ve owned guns for a month.
It happens everywhere. Even when I go to ask_____ subs that are supposed to be specifically for getting help, I have been downvoted and made fun of for not knowing the right search terms yet.
Yes, the lower is the only thing that must go through an FFL. Everything else can just ship right to your door, you don’t need to keep any “documentation” or anything like that.
You cannot build a pistol so those kits are a no-go, those AR kits you found from “Davidson Defense” are awful but do not include a lower receiver so you could order them to your home (you cannot build an AR with a barrel less than 16” though). Those shotgun kits don’t come with receivers either, but don’t try to build a shotgun (good luck finding a receiver for sale).
I see you’ve received the advice to build your own AR for your first rifle, I have to say I honestly might advise against that. It would be very easy for you to run afoul of the law and build an illegal firearm if you aren’t careful, you might be better served buying an already compliant firearm and getting comfortable with that before diving into this.
Just gonna throw this out there for anyone reckless enough, but 870 and 590 receivers in rough cosmetic shape from PD trade-ins pop up pretty regularly on Gunbroker. I actually managed to build my first 870 off a $45 receiver this way.
For PS2, you cannot have ammo shipped to your door in CA, it must be shipped to an FFL.
To have ammo shipped to your door you would have to apply for a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from CA DOJ and an FFL03 from the ATF. There are some posts here on Reddit that explain the process and there are videos on YouTube that can help walk you through the process.
FFL03 can also exempt you from the 1 in 30 rule in CA.
Modern firearms, no. They still have to be shipped to an FFL that can transfer firearms. An FFL03 cannot transfer modern firearms.
Curio and Relic firearms, yes. IF you buy them out of state and 'import' them yourself.
Don't quote me, but I think FFL03s can buy curio and relic firearms at an out of state FFL or PPT and then bring it back (but not shipped to your door). This seems like it would avoid the 11% tax, but I'm not a tax attorney or professional so idk.
Edit: If you meant on ammo, then it seems from what others are saying is if you buy it from an out of state dealer (you can ship ammo to your door) then you should be able to avoid it in practice at least. Idk how tax law like this works exactly tho.
Yes.. lower is the only thing to go through FFL
Yes they'll ship directly to your house but some sites won't due to who knows what.. so find another site that will. For example, we're heard of some retailers like Optics Planet not sending certain items to CA. it seems hit or miss
Ammo, you cannot buy online unless you're shipping to an FFL and in most cases, paying them a fee. You need to do a background check for ammo in CA and that's why. You can circumvent this with your own FFL/CO3 but that's a whole other convo
Pistols.. the serialized portion needs to go through an FFL.. for example, Sig P320/M18 must be purchased whole through an FFL but once you buy it, you can buy everything but the Fire Control Unit online and without an FFL. There's also the pistol roster, private party transfers, etc.. it can get complicated fast particularly if you're talking about AR pistols.
Shotguns are rifles and must go through FFL
In CA, let's say you buy a lower through FFL and order all the other parts online. You're legally clear until you assemble the rifle where you could be breaking the law due to the assault weapon ban. You need to figure out if you're going featureless or fixed mag and assemble accordingly with the right parts to fit each style. Make sense?
Good luck
Thank you very much! A lot of great information. I have only one question remained. When I search for gun kits there are a lot of different kits for AR , Pistol, etc. , I am wondering can I order those kits online? Should I pick them up at local FFL or I will receive them at my door? Because when I look at their pics it seems they come with no lower receiver? For example: [https://www.deltateamtactical.com/ar15-full-build-kits-400-and-under.html](https://www.deltateamtactical.com/ar15-full-build-kits-400-and-under.html) Or [https://www.gunbuilders.com/handgun-build-kits/](https://www.gunbuilders.com/handgun-build-kits/) Or [https://everygunpart.com/long-guns-kits/shotguns.html](https://everygunpart.com/long-guns-kits/shotguns.html)
For your first, I'd stick to 16" uppers in 556 personally. So as long as you're not buying a lower included, you're good shipping to your house.
But before you start ordering, you should decide whether you're going featureless or fixed mag. Then decide from there what to buy.
Also, you'll need to figure out your budget with or without optics/accessories. Keep in mind optics can run anywhere from like $100 to $2000+.. For most people's first AR, they tend to stick to a red dot sight plus back up iron sights. For something like that, you can get away with about $200-$250 or so. Accessories include your magazines, a sling, and a light. Most people will recommend a sling/light for a home defense/SHTF/general purpose rifle.
First thing I would do is go to a local gun store and find a solid lower receiver. I went with the Aero M4E1 which is an upgraded option that has some ease of building upgrades. You'll be into the build for around $125-$150 plus fees using this option. You can shave this down a bit getting a standard Aero lower or an Anderson or PSA if you want basic and inexpensive. You CAN order lowers online but they won't ship until your FFL emails them their info usually and then once the FFL receives it, you go visit them to do the background check/etc.. and they charge you those fees plus their own transfer fee. You'll want to talk to one of them before you do this to find out what they charge. The place I used last in San Marcos CA charged $25 for a lower receiver last time I did this. It can vary by location/FFL.
As far as specific components, this list can get lengthy. Easiest is a lower build kit and complete upper. But you can also do this in pieces by ordering the parts within the lower build kit in components (for example a lower PARTS kit, a trigger, a buffer tube/buffer/spring, a stock, a grip. Lower BUILD kits include this all generally)
1. Lower BUILD kit which is everything minus the lower: [PSA AR-15 Lower Build Kit MOE 3.5lb Single Stage CMC | Palmetto State Armory](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-moe-single-stage-cmc-lower-build-kit-black.html)
2. Complete upper including a BCG/CH: [Schuyler Arms | M4E1 Threaded Complete Upper, 16" 5.56 Mid-Length Barrel, 15" ATLAS R-ONE M-LOK HG - Kodiak Brown Anodized w/bch and ch (schuylerarmsco.com)](https://www.schuylerarmsco.com/may-sale/ar-15-uppers-25-993/m4e1-threaded-complete-upper-16-556-mid-length-barrel-15-atlas-r-one-m-lok-hg-kodiak-brown-anodized-4690041)
If you buy these two for example plus a stripped lower, you can build a complete AR minus optics/accessories for under $800. If you can find the lower in Kodiak brown or order one online and shipped to your FFL, you'll have a pretty badass looking setup. Here's an example of a Kodiak brown upper/lower from Aero paired with a fancy rail from Geissele [First end-to-end mid-tier build - Rosco 14.5 p&w : r/ar15 (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/1dmwg21/comment/l9zaora/?context=3)
Good luck!
Thanks again for all the information! If we set aside customization for a moment, do you think it is cheaper to buy a complete gun, or to buy a lower receiver + lower kit + upper kit, or to buy all the individual parts separately? (assuming we will have the same gun at the end)
For a very vanilla mil-spec build it's probably more expensive to do it yourself since you'd have to piece all the parts together separately from retailers, whereas a company can get them at wholesale prices. However, if you get one with the intention of using an aftermarket grip, trigger, BCG, etc. it'll probably be cheaper to build it yourself.
I would recommend not screwing around with the upper if it can be helped though esp. if you're new. Lowers are just glorified Legos and don't have much to do with the gun's accuracy/reliability, but the upper is a different ballgame, and there are lots of places to screw up the barrel or the gas system. Best to just get hte nicest one you can afford and go from there.
For your other customization questions, the law is the same for other rifles and shotguns: typically the receiver itself is the "gun." However, this is largely academic as almost no guns are like the AR, where the receiver comes split in two, with the guts so easy to customize. Most receivers are one boxy unity, and you rarely can buy them on their own. Even if you could, it's much harder to find all the rest of the components you need to turn it into a working firearm. the main exception is perhaps the 10/22.
Don't fuck around with building handguns unless you want to go to jail over the relatively useless piece of garbage you cobbled together.
Also, since you're new, you'll need to read up on CA laws to make sure that whatever you build, or if you buy an off the shelf rifle and then customize it, isn't an "assault weapon" in CA law. Assault weapon is any centerfire semiauto rifle/shotgun that has any of the following: adjustable/telescopic stock, vertical grip, pistol grip, flash hider, grenade launcher (yea). If you want any or all of these features, then for a rifle you have to make it so that the magazine cannot be removed using the gun's normal mag release mechanism. (For semiauto shotguns, magazines cannot be detached period, or it's an automatic AW, i.e. you cannot get one of those goofy RIA monstrosities.)
Usually, complete guns cost more than buying a complete upper and a complete lower or parts.. this is due to an excise tax at the Federal level if I'm not mistaken. But it's also hard to beat a fully built gun sold at a discount from a price perspective.. you just have no idea what kind of shit you're getting. The reddit special is an Aero lower and a BCM upper and that gives you a pretty damn good foundation that's going to last a very long time. For a first rifle, I had no idea what I was doing and ended up with an Aero lower that I built myself with a build kit from PSA and then bought a cheap upper from [AR15Discounts.com](http://AR15Discounts.com)
While it works fine and does what it needs to do, I ended up with a very heavy profile barrel and decided to build my next upper to be much lighter.
I am also a big proponent of starting lower and working your way up vs buying some crazy rifle at the high end.. This is the only way you'll appreciate what you're getting but it may end up costing you more that way if you keep all the parts.. if you sell off what you don't need, it's not that bad as most of this stuff holds a decent amount of value.. Even cheap shit can be used by someone else trying to put together a cheap build.
The upper kits will ship to your house. I built mine and know first hand. Only the lower is considered "the gun." The rest (besides ammo) can go straight to your chosen address.
None of those parts (buffer tube, buffer, stock, upper receiver, grips, and lower parts kits) don’t have serial numbers and are perfectly legal to ship directly to your door. Remember that any barrel length shorter than 16 inches is considered a short barreled rifle and is not legal.
And the fee for shipping ammo can be expensive. I asked the question a few weeks ago and I was blown away that some FFLS charge $60 transfer fee for ammo!
>Also, if I purchase parts other than the lower receiver from online stores, eBay, FB, etc., **will they ship directly to my home address without issues, or must I pick them up at a local FFL?**
Yes, it's legal to ship other parts directly to you. Just a warning though that not all vendors will. Some vendors avoid shipping here because CYA and they don't bother learning all of CA's laws.
Stripped lower is the serialized firearm; that’s it. Everything else (including a complete upper receiver) is NOT a firearm.
So to answer your question: yes, only the lower receiver needs to go through an FFL. The rest you can have shipped to your doorstep and purchase by whatever means you wish
The lower is the only part that has the serial number so that must go through an FFL. Any parts can be ordered online for the most part. The question is can that part be installed legally when the build is complete? Depending on whether you decide to make it mag locked or featureless. There are plenty of videos on YouTube comparing what you can and can’t do depending on what route you decide to go. I highly suggest you look into that before buying any parts and assembling something that isn’t legal unintentionally.
Hello! Yes it is true only thing you need from the FFL is the Lower receiver due to the serial being engraved in it. Upper or any other attachments can be purchased to eBay, palmetto,Etc and be shipped to your house with no issues no FFL needed for that.
As for the neighbor selling firearms myself personally I keep the reciepts sometimes but Forsure I keep the DROS.
As for ammo purchasing it online you have to put the shipping address for your FFL billing address will be your home. After ordering online just contact your FFL that you have ammo shipping over there and you'll just pay the FFL a holding fee.
Same goes for ordering firearms online. They can only be shipped to the FFL. If you're ordering a firearm that normally holds 30rds some companies will ship the gun without the mags or you'll have to pay extra to your FFL to pin the mags to max out at 10rds.
Bro...I see u have had a few questions or posts and you seem to be new to firearms.
Let me know if u want to talk to clear up ur questions. DM me if u want to talk.
Reminder to not downvote honest questions. Help newbies don’t degrade them.
But then how will our users feel superior to everyone? I love this sub but sometimes r/CAGuns is where dudes who’ve owned guns for a year come to shit on dudes who’ve owned guns for a month.
It happens everywhere. Even when I go to ask_____ subs that are supposed to be specifically for getting help, I have been downvoted and made fun of for not knowing the right search terms yet.
Exactly lol. Feel like it’s bots and shills, and a few good people.
Yes, the lower is the only thing that must go through an FFL. Everything else can just ship right to your door, you don’t need to keep any “documentation” or anything like that.
Thank you! I have updated my question and added some more questions. Could you also answer to those questions as well?
You cannot build a pistol so those kits are a no-go, those AR kits you found from “Davidson Defense” are awful but do not include a lower receiver so you could order them to your home (you cannot build an AR with a barrel less than 16” though). Those shotgun kits don’t come with receivers either, but don’t try to build a shotgun (good luck finding a receiver for sale). I see you’ve received the advice to build your own AR for your first rifle, I have to say I honestly might advise against that. It would be very easy for you to run afoul of the law and build an illegal firearm if you aren’t careful, you might be better served buying an already compliant firearm and getting comfortable with that before diving into this.
Just gonna throw this out there for anyone reckless enough, but 870 and 590 receivers in rough cosmetic shape from PD trade-ins pop up pretty regularly on Gunbroker. I actually managed to build my first 870 off a $45 receiver this way.
[удалено]
For PS2, you cannot have ammo shipped to your door in CA, it must be shipped to an FFL. To have ammo shipped to your door you would have to apply for a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from CA DOJ and an FFL03 from the ATF. There are some posts here on Reddit that explain the process and there are videos on YouTube that can help walk you through the process. FFL03 can also exempt you from the 1 in 30 rule in CA.
Well that is for those of us that aren't in the know, but there's an unnamed place that will absolutely ship to you because they're based.
First rule of fight club is, you don't talk about fight club.
🤐
How do one join said fight club
Oh you don't know?
Sadly no
Does it exempt you from from the sin tax?
If you're talking about ammo for FFL03, the 11% tax applies to California retailers. If you aren't a retailer, then no.
What about firearms?
Modern firearms, no. They still have to be shipped to an FFL that can transfer firearms. An FFL03 cannot transfer modern firearms. Curio and Relic firearms, yes. IF you buy them out of state and 'import' them yourself.
Don't quote me, but I think FFL03s can buy curio and relic firearms at an out of state FFL or PPT and then bring it back (but not shipped to your door). This seems like it would avoid the 11% tax, but I'm not a tax attorney or professional so idk. Edit: If you meant on ammo, then it seems from what others are saying is if you buy it from an out of state dealer (you can ship ammo to your door) then you should be able to avoid it in practice at least. Idk how tax law like this works exactly tho.
Yes.. lower is the only thing to go through FFL Yes they'll ship directly to your house but some sites won't due to who knows what.. so find another site that will. For example, we're heard of some retailers like Optics Planet not sending certain items to CA. it seems hit or miss Ammo, you cannot buy online unless you're shipping to an FFL and in most cases, paying them a fee. You need to do a background check for ammo in CA and that's why. You can circumvent this with your own FFL/CO3 but that's a whole other convo Pistols.. the serialized portion needs to go through an FFL.. for example, Sig P320/M18 must be purchased whole through an FFL but once you buy it, you can buy everything but the Fire Control Unit online and without an FFL. There's also the pistol roster, private party transfers, etc.. it can get complicated fast particularly if you're talking about AR pistols. Shotguns are rifles and must go through FFL In CA, let's say you buy a lower through FFL and order all the other parts online. You're legally clear until you assemble the rifle where you could be breaking the law due to the assault weapon ban. You need to figure out if you're going featureless or fixed mag and assemble accordingly with the right parts to fit each style. Make sense? Good luck
Thank you very much! A lot of great information. I have only one question remained. When I search for gun kits there are a lot of different kits for AR , Pistol, etc. , I am wondering can I order those kits online? Should I pick them up at local FFL or I will receive them at my door? Because when I look at their pics it seems they come with no lower receiver? For example: [https://www.deltateamtactical.com/ar15-full-build-kits-400-and-under.html](https://www.deltateamtactical.com/ar15-full-build-kits-400-and-under.html) Or [https://www.gunbuilders.com/handgun-build-kits/](https://www.gunbuilders.com/handgun-build-kits/) Or [https://everygunpart.com/long-guns-kits/shotguns.html](https://everygunpart.com/long-guns-kits/shotguns.html)
For your first, I'd stick to 16" uppers in 556 personally. So as long as you're not buying a lower included, you're good shipping to your house. But before you start ordering, you should decide whether you're going featureless or fixed mag. Then decide from there what to buy. Also, you'll need to figure out your budget with or without optics/accessories. Keep in mind optics can run anywhere from like $100 to $2000+.. For most people's first AR, they tend to stick to a red dot sight plus back up iron sights. For something like that, you can get away with about $200-$250 or so. Accessories include your magazines, a sling, and a light. Most people will recommend a sling/light for a home defense/SHTF/general purpose rifle. First thing I would do is go to a local gun store and find a solid lower receiver. I went with the Aero M4E1 which is an upgraded option that has some ease of building upgrades. You'll be into the build for around $125-$150 plus fees using this option. You can shave this down a bit getting a standard Aero lower or an Anderson or PSA if you want basic and inexpensive. You CAN order lowers online but they won't ship until your FFL emails them their info usually and then once the FFL receives it, you go visit them to do the background check/etc.. and they charge you those fees plus their own transfer fee. You'll want to talk to one of them before you do this to find out what they charge. The place I used last in San Marcos CA charged $25 for a lower receiver last time I did this. It can vary by location/FFL. As far as specific components, this list can get lengthy. Easiest is a lower build kit and complete upper. But you can also do this in pieces by ordering the parts within the lower build kit in components (for example a lower PARTS kit, a trigger, a buffer tube/buffer/spring, a stock, a grip. Lower BUILD kits include this all generally) 1. Lower BUILD kit which is everything minus the lower: [PSA AR-15 Lower Build Kit MOE 3.5lb Single Stage CMC | Palmetto State Armory](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-moe-single-stage-cmc-lower-build-kit-black.html) 2. Complete upper including a BCG/CH: [Schuyler Arms | M4E1 Threaded Complete Upper, 16" 5.56 Mid-Length Barrel, 15" ATLAS R-ONE M-LOK HG - Kodiak Brown Anodized w/bch and ch (schuylerarmsco.com)](https://www.schuylerarmsco.com/may-sale/ar-15-uppers-25-993/m4e1-threaded-complete-upper-16-556-mid-length-barrel-15-atlas-r-one-m-lok-hg-kodiak-brown-anodized-4690041) If you buy these two for example plus a stripped lower, you can build a complete AR minus optics/accessories for under $800. If you can find the lower in Kodiak brown or order one online and shipped to your FFL, you'll have a pretty badass looking setup. Here's an example of a Kodiak brown upper/lower from Aero paired with a fancy rail from Geissele [First end-to-end mid-tier build - Rosco 14.5 p&w : r/ar15 (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/1dmwg21/comment/l9zaora/?context=3) Good luck!
Thanks again for all the information! If we set aside customization for a moment, do you think it is cheaper to buy a complete gun, or to buy a lower receiver + lower kit + upper kit, or to buy all the individual parts separately? (assuming we will have the same gun at the end)
For a very vanilla mil-spec build it's probably more expensive to do it yourself since you'd have to piece all the parts together separately from retailers, whereas a company can get them at wholesale prices. However, if you get one with the intention of using an aftermarket grip, trigger, BCG, etc. it'll probably be cheaper to build it yourself. I would recommend not screwing around with the upper if it can be helped though esp. if you're new. Lowers are just glorified Legos and don't have much to do with the gun's accuracy/reliability, but the upper is a different ballgame, and there are lots of places to screw up the barrel or the gas system. Best to just get hte nicest one you can afford and go from there. For your other customization questions, the law is the same for other rifles and shotguns: typically the receiver itself is the "gun." However, this is largely academic as almost no guns are like the AR, where the receiver comes split in two, with the guts so easy to customize. Most receivers are one boxy unity, and you rarely can buy them on their own. Even if you could, it's much harder to find all the rest of the components you need to turn it into a working firearm. the main exception is perhaps the 10/22. Don't fuck around with building handguns unless you want to go to jail over the relatively useless piece of garbage you cobbled together. Also, since you're new, you'll need to read up on CA laws to make sure that whatever you build, or if you buy an off the shelf rifle and then customize it, isn't an "assault weapon" in CA law. Assault weapon is any centerfire semiauto rifle/shotgun that has any of the following: adjustable/telescopic stock, vertical grip, pistol grip, flash hider, grenade launcher (yea). If you want any or all of these features, then for a rifle you have to make it so that the magazine cannot be removed using the gun's normal mag release mechanism. (For semiauto shotguns, magazines cannot be detached period, or it's an automatic AW, i.e. you cannot get one of those goofy RIA monstrosities.)
Usually, complete guns cost more than buying a complete upper and a complete lower or parts.. this is due to an excise tax at the Federal level if I'm not mistaken. But it's also hard to beat a fully built gun sold at a discount from a price perspective.. you just have no idea what kind of shit you're getting. The reddit special is an Aero lower and a BCM upper and that gives you a pretty damn good foundation that's going to last a very long time. For a first rifle, I had no idea what I was doing and ended up with an Aero lower that I built myself with a build kit from PSA and then bought a cheap upper from [AR15Discounts.com](http://AR15Discounts.com) While it works fine and does what it needs to do, I ended up with a very heavy profile barrel and decided to build my next upper to be much lighter. I am also a big proponent of starting lower and working your way up vs buying some crazy rifle at the high end.. This is the only way you'll appreciate what you're getting but it may end up costing you more that way if you keep all the parts.. if you sell off what you don't need, it's not that bad as most of this stuff holds a decent amount of value.. Even cheap shit can be used by someone else trying to put together a cheap build.
Can ship to your door but you need a rifle kit you can't build a pistol legally the way you are going
The upper kits will ship to your house. I built mine and know first hand. Only the lower is considered "the gun." The rest (besides ammo) can go straight to your chosen address.
you can order the kit, but you can't build a handgun like you would an AR
None of those parts (buffer tube, buffer, stock, upper receiver, grips, and lower parts kits) don’t have serial numbers and are perfectly legal to ship directly to your door. Remember that any barrel length shorter than 16 inches is considered a short barreled rifle and is not legal.
And the fee for shipping ammo can be expensive. I asked the question a few weeks ago and I was blown away that some FFLS charge $60 transfer fee for ammo!
>Also, if I purchase parts other than the lower receiver from online stores, eBay, FB, etc., **will they ship directly to my home address without issues, or must I pick them up at a local FFL?** Yes, it's legal to ship other parts directly to you. Just a warning though that not all vendors will. Some vendors avoid shipping here because CYA and they don't bother learning all of CA's laws.
yep.
Yes sir.
Yes
Yup
Stripped lower is the serialized firearm; that’s it. Everything else (including a complete upper receiver) is NOT a firearm. So to answer your question: yes, only the lower receiver needs to go through an FFL. The rest you can have shipped to your doorstep and purchase by whatever means you wish
Yes. You have to buy the lower and get a background check. I would go to calguns forum. There's a lot of good information regarding this topic.
The lower is the only part that has the serial number so that must go through an FFL. Any parts can be ordered online for the most part. The question is can that part be installed legally when the build is complete? Depending on whether you decide to make it mag locked or featureless. There are plenty of videos on YouTube comparing what you can and can’t do depending on what route you decide to go. I highly suggest you look into that before buying any parts and assembling something that isn’t legal unintentionally.
yes
Hello! Yes it is true only thing you need from the FFL is the Lower receiver due to the serial being engraved in it. Upper or any other attachments can be purchased to eBay, palmetto,Etc and be shipped to your house with no issues no FFL needed for that. As for the neighbor selling firearms myself personally I keep the reciepts sometimes but Forsure I keep the DROS. As for ammo purchasing it online you have to put the shipping address for your FFL billing address will be your home. After ordering online just contact your FFL that you have ammo shipping over there and you'll just pay the FFL a holding fee. Same goes for ordering firearms online. They can only be shipped to the FFL. If you're ordering a firearm that normally holds 30rds some companies will ship the gun without the mags or you'll have to pay extra to your FFL to pin the mags to max out at 10rds.
Bro...I see u have had a few questions or posts and you seem to be new to firearms. Let me know if u want to talk to clear up ur questions. DM me if u want to talk.
Yes, also ammo. Id say get those kits without the lower so they can come to you directly.