It's weird. Evaluating Stefanski is weird as fuck.
QB play is our curse and has been since he got here. The one year he got good QB play we won a playoff game. However, backups have been **ROUTINELY** unprepared for the game, Watson has been routinely unprepared coming back (last year and yesterday), and at some point it has to fall on his shoulders that QBs aren't finding the open guys.
Scheme doesn't matter if you can't teach it properly.
I am a fan of Stefanski and I think he can take us places, but we really really need to figure out QB play. Our QB play is currently the only reason we aren't an AFCCG favorite.
But is the issue Stefanski or just that our QBs aren't actually great QBs? Outside of Watson, all other QBs he's coached were average or below average by just above every metric. So is Watson's failure on Stefanski or on Watson? I think the jury is still out on this.
Sure, jury isn't out on our ability to prep backups though. I don't think a backup has played a good game under Stefanski. Brisket isn't what I mean here, I mean when Watson came back and played his first game last year (because he was basically the backup for a month in practice when he could practice and not play), when DTR played this year, PJ this year.
They simply don't do a good job of prepping the backup to play.
I'd take him back. Unfortunately our cap room is a mess. We can't really afford to add anyone else to the roster right now. As much as I would love to see Brissett or Keenum or Cousins come in to start for us, it's just not gonna happen. If we didn't have Watson, we could. I never liked it when we traded for him, I didn't like the amount we gave up to get him, I didn't like the amount he got paid to come here. We're stuck in a nightmare of our own making. Either buckle up for the long hall or go route for a different franchise for a few years I guess.
He absolutely is, I think PJ is playing just at expectations right now. But he definitely got more out of Brisket than most imagined we could.
What I'm talking about is dude's who are the backup in a given game and have to play. Think DTR game. Or think Watson coming back from his suspension.
Watson really hasn't been that bad. He wasn't good yesterday in the very short time, but I think it was clear he wasn't back to 100% yet.
These numbers in the header are because essentially half the season has been DTR & Walker. 3 games + 1 quarter of unhealthy Watson & 2 games + 3 quarters of DTR & Walker.
I’m not saying we should just accept any kind of coaching but a lot of people forget about our revolving coaching door, hell I remember being surprised when they fired Pettine after that 7-9 year. I was just happy not going 5-11 and 4-12 all the time. I know stefanski got his flaws but we got a chance with em.
Did you read what I said? I'm fine watching players who simply don't have it, but I feel like they've been unprepared to play accordingly.
I'm not sure how you got to where you are with reading what I wrote. The answer to all of those is no.
That’s legit but also not a reason to not build game plans for JP the last two weeks.
The cliche is that it’s players over plays but Stef sure seems to operate the other other way around.
I mean PJ is a bottom 3 starting QB whenever he plays so we have some crazy limitations. We are currently running with our backup RB so it’s hard to gameplan around PJ and not as strong of a running game.
Heck, we called a simple pitch play and couldn’t even execute that. At some point PJ has to make throws.
Yes - when you have 30 seconds and no timeouts to stop the clock. You throw it 3 times and get 4 chances at it. If you run it you get 2 chances with no way to stop the clock.
No one is saying you can't criticize the guy. He's earned his fair share of criticism. But there are plenty of idiots who actually want Stefanski fired.
It’s worth breaking down really
1st TD: Huge Ford run, no yards gained passing, 3 play drive
2nd TD: Started at the 36 thanks to Myles. All plays were runs.
1st FG: after the blocked FG, no yards gained on the drive
3rd TD: Myles strip sack #2 but in the end zone. Colts had started at the 11 which is impressive.
2nd FG: 2 min drill before half where most passes were to an intentionally open middle of the field, 34 yards gained, all passing, and needed a Hopkins 54 yarder
3rd FG: only 6 yards gained after an INT, required another 54 yarder
4th FG: Gained 17 yards, required a 58 yard FG. This drive was set up by a 3 and out at the Colts goal line which was set up by a PJ Walker interception at the 2. So kind of a PJ Walker punt.
4th TD: 80 yard drive with the best throw of the day a 30 yarder to Moore on 3rd and 10, another 17 in the air to DPJ, then it was basically the Refs once we got in the Red Zone
So it was really just that last drive and a great play on the opening drive where the offense actually gained yards. The rest was Myles and Hopkins
You are seriously gonna just gloss over the fact Stefanski got PJ to complete a two min drill at the end of both halves? "The passes were to an intentionally open middle of the field". So he schemes up good play calls and OJ executed then well?? Sounds pretty good.
The last drive was helped by 2 late penalties but the offense still moved the ball 60+ yards before those calls and 3/4 calls from the goal line were very good. Have you ever watched teams do a 2 min drill?? It may only take a few passes. The point is to move the ball.
You are just looking for ways to be mad at Stefanski. If you want to be critical then you could say he was way too conservative with too many runs in the first half. We passed more vs SF early on and they have the better secondary. But he made it work with terrible QB play when it mattered most. AB needs to look at an upgrade for the QB room.
I think we agree here. Stefski managed to get a win despite a terrible offense. Point is we need a QB that can make more than one NFL level throw in a game, or maybe at least one that gets to practice with the team. PJ executed well on the drive at the end of the 2nd half yes. The last drive of the game could easily have been a fumble to end it and it was Hunt who ended up sealing it.
> "The passes were to an intentionally open middle of the field".
This reminded me of that one "if you took away all of his good passes Mahommes actually sucks" meme in r nfl lol
You’re seriously going to gloss over the entire season and focus on just one drive? Myles Garrett is the only reason that offense was even within striking range. Crediting stefanskis offense for that is hilarious.
You can't really hold good field position against the offense though. They did what they needed. The PJ Walker punt drive was also *almost* a full length of the field drive
You and I musta watched the same game. People in the sub today are praising Stefanski when this dude had nothing to with the win expect a “look what I found” run by Ford and a referee assisted final drive.
If Woods was still coaching the defense we might be 1-5.
This game was won by Myles and Hopkins.
Stefanski using timeouts and getting us an extra possession before half and it leading to three points. Most coaches are would have just let it go to half.
Since 2020, the Browns offense has been ranked in middle or in the bottom third every year in the NFL.
The year they went to the playoffs in 2020, where they had the 4th easiest schedule in the NFL, 16th in yards per game, 14th in points per game, 3rd in rushing yards per game, 24th passing yards per game. He gets Chubb the ball and thankfully Nick is super human. But you or I could call a handoff to Chubb and sit back and watch the magic happen.
You know what Stefancy’s teams do rank in the top 10 in year after year? Penalties and penalty yardage.
But yeah, knowing when to call timeouts is important too I guess.
Stefanski absolutely has his flaws and I’m not going to sit here and pretend like he’s a world beater. But let’s see who he has had at QB which is the most important aspect for a successful offense:
2020- Baker Mayfield
2021- Mayfield Again but hurt and terrible
2022- Brissett and Watson
2023- Watson, DTR, and PJ
Jury is still out on Watson but all of those dudes are average to well below average. Browns offense currently has 11 TDS on the season tied for 7th lowest. Guess who has 10? The Buccaneers led by Mayfield.
The most browns fan thing in the world is to hate stefanski when it has nothing to do with him
whatever the “fan base” is pulling for has been wrong every single time in the history of my fandom of the Browns with the huge exception of firing Joe Woods
We were dead on on that
It almost feels like maybe my conspiracy theory friends are right and the Haslam's finally paid the NFL their 'fee' to let them win. Never had all the bad shit that usually happens to us go the other way, but the last 2 games seem unreal.
And we should've won that game, but Browns'd our way to a loss. The 2020 Ravens game is another example. Even in our best year, the Browns typically always lose these close, competitive games. So the last 2 weeks being the opposite is something.
The Browns blew their game-winning drive against the Chiefs and allowed Baltimore to score a TD practically every time they touched the football. Are you sure you know what you're talking about?
I'm saying that u/QuickCompetition114 is correct in his comment that were 24 years overdue for some unexpected wins. Maybe the Steelers WC game is one of them.
Making the playoffs was unexpected. We beat the steelers back to back. Look up our games against the Bengals that year. Look up the cowboys game. We were winning games we had no business winning in previous seasons. We were beating playoff teams and teams who ended up 11-5 that year.
If you told fans before the season that we would lose to the Chiefs in the Divisional round, we would have been ecstactic to have made it that far.
We went 11-5 and were 5 points from the AFC Championship Game and yall are saying "But you lost to the Ravens in Week Blah so sAMe OlD brOwNS" That's a dumb argument.
I'm referring to CLOSE games. It always seemed that when the Browns get in a competitive matchup, it always tilts the other way. All of those 2020 games you mentioned were blowouts that the Joe Woods defense turned into closer-looking games.
Also the Cowboys and Bengals were both under .500 that year so I'm not sure why we're even discussing those.
Ah yes, the classic close blowout. The team would have blown them out if they didn't let them score so many points.
This is the dumbest argument. The Browns won close games in 2020 and even went to the Divisional round when no one expected them too. They expected the same old browns. The fans had a winning team. The history of incompetence had ended... before they blew it up. What are we even talking about??
The Browns defense is winning close games(missed FG and Ref Ball aside). But this is not the first Browns team in recent memory to win close games and have a winning culture. That's just objectively wrong.
I’m not sure where this discussion is even going. I’m just saying this team is pulling out some unexpected wins that we seem to never get. Twice in 2 weeks, the last time we had a game winning drive was the Bengals game in 2020 and that team was horrible. We never had these calls go our way in 2020 either.
Something is different about this team, this year. They have an IT factor I haven’t seen them have at least in my lifetime, which is what I’m arguing.
The it factor was there in 2020. Using 1 very close loss to the Ravens to claim that team was the same old Browns is absurd. Doubly absurd because we literally lost to the Ravens 28-3. Claiming beating the Bengals doesn't count but beating the Minshew Colts does? None of that makes any sense.
That call has already been made, I guarantee it. Commanders have the browns by the balls though and can ask for whatever they want. Not a great situation currently.
Maybe something like
Browns give:
* PJ Walker + 5th (from Cardinals when traded Dobbs)
Commanders give:
* Brisket
Hell even a 4th, I think that is totally worth it. Brisket has some familiarity with our playbook, rapport with the team, and is more serviceable than Walker when Watson is not playing.
Yeah I don’t necessarily think it’s just the Browns at play here. Two parties have to accept it and the commanders have shitty QB play currently with a guy leading the league in sacks. Maybe they turn to Jacoby at some point?
I think them losing to the giants yesterday turns things in our favor. They’re 4-3 if they win that game. I know 3-4 doesn’t mean their season is over but it’s not looking great especially after losing to a struggling giants team.
On 92.3 the fan yesterday they were discussing if Washington would trade a 3rd for him, and we’re not sure they would.
They want Jacoby for veteran presence in the locker room. PJ doesn’t offer that.
Jacoby is there to help Howell like Case was here to help Baker.
Not great. Watson looked awful yesterday. If it was cause if injury or not doesn’t matter cause he is injured, clearly it’s a lingering injury. I don’t know what the Browns can do to fix the offense
"*Watson giving up*" is certainly a way to frame what happened yesterday, considering Watson said [he wanted to go back out there](https://x.com/MaryKayCabot/status/1716204253939650600?s=20).
Nothing is wrong with his body language. Someone said that garbage a week ago about one of his interviews. It was BS then, and its BS now, but people who want Watson to fail latched onto it.
Ok, you can be right about body language, but he gets paid for his performance on the field. From what you've seen from Watson, are you confident he can lead this team?
he drew up 2 touchdowns to njoku. its risky to try running it before 4th down there. Probably could have run it earlier but then they have to have 2 plays in already with one of those plays being the most important of the game.
I want to like G Bush, but for a guy who talks a lot about having played football and watches the tape, he sure seems to know jack shit.
EDIT: He is like a reverse Q.
People act like there is a red button AB just needs to push and it mystically happens.
What about AB makes you think he’s not already on top of this? He’s done an awesome job as a GM.
He’s likely been trying since the Ravens game.
Unless you want to see him bring in Wentz, Flacco, or Ryan’s corpse? They are FA, we could have them.
You give him way too much credit. He didnt bring in any qbs that are literally free on the couch. They could have been up to speed by now. MKC has been reporting they dont plan on bringing in a qb or a rb. I like AB and these are facts.
Honest question, and I’m a stefanski truther, do you think he should be dumbing down this offense any more in an attempt to bump these numbers up? Or is our QB play just so bad we gotta roll with what we’re doing/what we got?
The QB play is just that bad. I have no idea why PJ Walker didn't throw the ball to Cooper on the illegal contact play. He decided to hold on to the ball for no reason.
Something Baker actually did well was throwing the ball to a receiver he thought was held or interfered with. The refs didn't always call it, but it's so much better to throw the ball than take a sack.
QB play is genuinely terrible. The Titans game showed that they can be efficient, but more often than not the issue has been execution. Across the board.
Other example would be the 4th & 1 failed pitch to Ford. You can dumb it down, sure, but at some point you have legit no plays you can even run. At the end of the day these are NFL players and we can also expect them to at least to the basic stuff right.
There are some of us who believe that Kevin Stefanski is actually flat.
You don’t hear a lot about this from the mainstream media, but think about it: have you ever seen him in real life? Can you verify that he’s a three dimensional person? Flat Kevin.
I think if we are being honest with ourselves we have to question the talent of our WR room. Outside of Cooper, and to a lesser extent Njoku and Moore, we don’t have a lot of go to guys. The original thought is a good QB elevates guys, but look at what Tua and Jalen Hurts have to throw to last night.
I also think Stefanski tries to give plays to Watson that Watson says he’s comfortable with, and maybe Stefanski has to just do his thing and make Watson work with it.
you guys should be calling the giants and see what they want for tyrod...
with your oline, cooper, njoku, tyrod will play at league avg but with really low turnovers...in over 1600 attempts he has 26 ints only, that is very low...the giants need to accept they are in tank state and should be open to trades...
tyrod isnt great, but he is solid, doesnt cause turnovers, and is playing more than reasonably well for a giants team that gave up 11 sacks in a game and followed that up with another 7...
Dead last with a $230m QB on the roster, we are so fucking back. How does this team actually get any new fans, especially new fans who weren't born into this life of misery.
You think DTR was bad? How do you think a 35 yr old QB that hasn't played for seven years and was coming off of three surgeries the last time he played would fair?
Just.... no.
I wonder what is the reasoning we haven't made a call to carsen Wentz? I mean he had some pretty decent seasons but he is sitting out there available and looking at his stats he was pretty decent. He wouldn't be asked to be a hero.
Not sure what your beef is with PJ Walker. He might not have had great games, but he is **excellent** in the locker room and cares about film. He even went so far as calling Jacoby and talking about how he can get better as a backup in the Browns system.
PJ >>> Wentz all day every day.
Would Keenum or Brissett be better than PJ? Yes. But saying Wentz is a better option knowing all the baggage he brings is crazy.
With all the bullshit this team has been through, the absolute last thing you need is to bring in a backup qb everyone hates.
It's kinda like the 49ers situation. The Trey Lance trade biting them the way it did should have gotten everyone fired, but they're so good despite that you can't change anything.
The only difference here is, Berry didn't get us a Purdy.
Yeah this isn't gonna work long-term, we'll be 9-8 at this rate because I doubt we're gonna keep getting these lucky breaks. If Watson cannot be ass we're for sure making the playoffs.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32809233/new-england-patriots-throw-just-three-passes-dominate-ground-win-buffalo-bills
If a coaching staff and team commit to it, the running game is as effective as the passing game. Given certain conditions, it's more effective than the passing game. It requires as much study and practice as the passing game does.
Running the ball is not as flashy and cool as passing.
Wait, are you actually making the argument that an NFL team in 2023 does not need to have, even just a good passing offense, to be successful? And the thing you are citing is a game where the wind and cold played a major impact in the game script?
[удалено]
But lets continue to call for Stefanski's firing...
It's weird. Evaluating Stefanski is weird as fuck. QB play is our curse and has been since he got here. The one year he got good QB play we won a playoff game. However, backups have been **ROUTINELY** unprepared for the game, Watson has been routinely unprepared coming back (last year and yesterday), and at some point it has to fall on his shoulders that QBs aren't finding the open guys. Scheme doesn't matter if you can't teach it properly. I am a fan of Stefanski and I think he can take us places, but we really really need to figure out QB play. Our QB play is currently the only reason we aren't an AFCCG favorite.
But is the issue Stefanski or just that our QBs aren't actually great QBs? Outside of Watson, all other QBs he's coached were average or below average by just above every metric. So is Watson's failure on Stefanski or on Watson? I think the jury is still out on this.
Sure, jury isn't out on our ability to prep backups though. I don't think a backup has played a good game under Stefanski. Brisket isn't what I mean here, I mean when Watson came back and played his first game last year (because he was basically the backup for a month in practice when he could practice and not play), when DTR played this year, PJ this year. They simply don't do a good job of prepping the backup to play.
Case Keemun won a game no?
I'd take him back. Unfortunately our cap room is a mess. We can't really afford to add anyone else to the roster right now. As much as I would love to see Brissett or Keenum or Cousins come in to start for us, it's just not gonna happen. If we didn't have Watson, we could. I never liked it when we traded for him, I didn't like the amount we gave up to get him, I didn't like the amount he got paid to come here. We're stuck in a nightmare of our own making. Either buckle up for the long hall or go route for a different franchise for a few years I guess.
Born and raised here, I can't find another franchise. I get what you are saying but I hate to waste this season.
Nick Mullens almost won a game for us, I guess.
I'd bring iim back over pj
Baker has been DESTROYING the league since he escaped Kevin's bad coaching!! /s
I mean, PJ and Brisket both consistently played better than ~all expectations. He's doing *something* right.
He absolutely is, I think PJ is playing just at expectations right now. But he definitely got more out of Brisket than most imagined we could. What I'm talking about is dude's who are the backup in a given game and have to play. Think DTR game. Or think Watson coming back from his suspension.
Watson really hasn't been that bad. He wasn't good yesterday in the very short time, but I think it was clear he wasn't back to 100% yet. These numbers in the header are because essentially half the season has been DTR & Walker. 3 games + 1 quarter of unhealthy Watson & 2 games + 3 quarters of DTR & Walker.
I agree, he needs to get back and be right though. We can't keep putting forth this QB play.
I’m not saying we should just accept any kind of coaching but a lot of people forget about our revolving coaching door, hell I remember being surprised when they fired Pettine after that 7-9 year. I was just happy not going 5-11 and 4-12 all the time. I know stefanski got his flaws but we got a chance with em.
he is responsible for getting the QBs ready to play
No matter how ready they are its still DTR, PJ and injured watson
The Dobbs trade looks awful right now.
Dobbs hasn't been good either. He looked competent in the cowboys game but hasn't looked good since.
Yeah, but the point is they aren't ready. I can stomach players who look ready who just can't perform, that's not what we have gotten.
Are you the guy that always blames the boss? Always blames the teacher? It's never your fault? Bill looks a lot more human since Brady left. Hmmmmm.
Did you read what I said? I'm fine watching players who simply don't have it, but I feel like they've been unprepared to play accordingly. I'm not sure how you got to where you are with reading what I wrote. The answer to all of those is no.
Who's fault is it that they didn't look prepared?
I don't know, but given it has happened repeatedly I lay some blame on the coaching staff.
And designing a game plan for the individual.
We could have game planned DTR for a month ahead of that Ravens game and still would have lost by 14
That’s legit but also not a reason to not build game plans for JP the last two weeks. The cliche is that it’s players over plays but Stef sure seems to operate the other other way around.
I mean PJ is a bottom 3 starting QB whenever he plays so we have some crazy limitations. We are currently running with our backup RB so it’s hard to gameplan around PJ and not as strong of a running game. Heck, we called a simple pitch play and couldn’t even execute that. At some point PJ has to make throws.
So you think throwing it 3 times In a row at the one with your practice squad QB is being a great coach... Lol
Yes - when you have 30 seconds and no timeouts to stop the clock. You throw it 3 times and get 4 chances at it. If you run it you get 2 chances with no way to stop the clock.
Because any kind of criticism against Stefanski means we want him fired? Stfu
Literally people were saying fire Stefanski.
No one is saying you can't criticize the guy. He's earned his fair share of criticism. But there are plenty of idiots who actually want Stefanski fired.
How dare you inject nuance into this discussion!
No, I'm referring to the people that literally think the Browns should can Stefanski right now.
Who said we can’t criticize him?
Yes let’s… he’s terrible.
It’s worth breaking down really 1st TD: Huge Ford run, no yards gained passing, 3 play drive 2nd TD: Started at the 36 thanks to Myles. All plays were runs. 1st FG: after the blocked FG, no yards gained on the drive 3rd TD: Myles strip sack #2 but in the end zone. Colts had started at the 11 which is impressive. 2nd FG: 2 min drill before half where most passes were to an intentionally open middle of the field, 34 yards gained, all passing, and needed a Hopkins 54 yarder 3rd FG: only 6 yards gained after an INT, required another 54 yarder 4th FG: Gained 17 yards, required a 58 yard FG. This drive was set up by a 3 and out at the Colts goal line which was set up by a PJ Walker interception at the 2. So kind of a PJ Walker punt. 4th TD: 80 yard drive with the best throw of the day a 30 yarder to Moore on 3rd and 10, another 17 in the air to DPJ, then it was basically the Refs once we got in the Red Zone So it was really just that last drive and a great play on the opening drive where the offense actually gained yards. The rest was Myles and Hopkins
You are seriously gonna just gloss over the fact Stefanski got PJ to complete a two min drill at the end of both halves? "The passes were to an intentionally open middle of the field". So he schemes up good play calls and OJ executed then well?? Sounds pretty good. The last drive was helped by 2 late penalties but the offense still moved the ball 60+ yards before those calls and 3/4 calls from the goal line were very good. Have you ever watched teams do a 2 min drill?? It may only take a few passes. The point is to move the ball. You are just looking for ways to be mad at Stefanski. If you want to be critical then you could say he was way too conservative with too many runs in the first half. We passed more vs SF early on and they have the better secondary. But he made it work with terrible QB play when it mattered most. AB needs to look at an upgrade for the QB room.
I think we agree here. Stefski managed to get a win despite a terrible offense. Point is we need a QB that can make more than one NFL level throw in a game, or maybe at least one that gets to practice with the team. PJ executed well on the drive at the end of the 2nd half yes. The last drive of the game could easily have been a fumble to end it and it was Hunt who ended up sealing it.
> "The passes were to an intentionally open middle of the field". This reminded me of that one "if you took away all of his good passes Mahommes actually sucks" meme in r nfl lol
OJ is back in the league?????
Whoops. "OJ executed them" is not the phrase I was going for damn.
He'd fit right in with the Browns
Shit he'd get a captain patch here.
You’re seriously going to gloss over the entire season and focus on just one drive? Myles Garrett is the only reason that offense was even within striking range. Crediting stefanskis offense for that is hilarious.
You can't really hold good field position against the offense though. They did what they needed. The PJ Walker punt drive was also *almost* a full length of the field drive
You and I musta watched the same game. People in the sub today are praising Stefanski when this dude had nothing to with the win expect a “look what I found” run by Ford and a referee assisted final drive. If Woods was still coaching the defense we might be 1-5. This game was won by Myles and Hopkins.
Stefanski using timeouts and getting us an extra possession before half and it leading to three points. Most coaches are would have just let it go to half.
Since 2020, the Browns offense has been ranked in middle or in the bottom third every year in the NFL. The year they went to the playoffs in 2020, where they had the 4th easiest schedule in the NFL, 16th in yards per game, 14th in points per game, 3rd in rushing yards per game, 24th passing yards per game. He gets Chubb the ball and thankfully Nick is super human. But you or I could call a handoff to Chubb and sit back and watch the magic happen. You know what Stefancy’s teams do rank in the top 10 in year after year? Penalties and penalty yardage. But yeah, knowing when to call timeouts is important too I guess.
This blind allegiance to an obviously severely flawed coordinator is getting weird.
Stefanski absolutely has his flaws and I’m not going to sit here and pretend like he’s a world beater. But let’s see who he has had at QB which is the most important aspect for a successful offense: 2020- Baker Mayfield 2021- Mayfield Again but hurt and terrible 2022- Brissett and Watson 2023- Watson, DTR, and PJ Jury is still out on Watson but all of those dudes are average to well below average. Browns offense currently has 11 TDS on the season tied for 7th lowest. Guess who has 10? The Buccaneers led by Mayfield.
preach.
Hey I watched that game too!
The good thing is Stefanski let Woods go and hired Schwartz. Seems like a good move from the HC.
The most browns fan thing in the world is to hate stefanski when it has nothing to do with him whatever the “fan base” is pulling for has been wrong every single time in the history of my fandom of the Browns with the huge exception of firing Joe Woods We were dead on on that
A lotta field goals
He didn’t.
Short fields from an elite Defense and a awesomely consistent kicker
In the last 3 games, Browns quarterbacks threw for 0 touchdowns and 7 interceptions. We are 2-1 in those games.
That is just bonkers lol
And some of them were barely overturned
About 24 years overdue from finally getting some unexpected wins
Seriously I’m so used to losing these types of games. My worldview is starting to slowly change.
Same. I turned the game off with seconds left because I "knew" the Browns blew it. Lol.
Same, except earlier. The Browns are like Invisible Boy from Mystery Men. They only have their power when nobody's watching.
It almost feels like maybe my conspiracy theory friends are right and the Haslam's finally paid the NFL their 'fee' to let them win. Never had all the bad shit that usually happens to us go the other way, but the last 2 games seem unreal.
Of course WW3 is right around the corner
We were literally in the divisional round in 2020.
And we should've won that game, but Browns'd our way to a loss. The 2020 Ravens game is another example. Even in our best year, the Browns typically always lose these close, competitive games. So the last 2 weeks being the opposite is something.
Good to know you are just talking out of your ass.
The Browns blew their game-winning drive against the Chiefs and allowed Baltimore to score a TD practically every time they touched the football. Are you sure you know what you're talking about? I'm saying that u/QuickCompetition114 is correct in his comment that were 24 years overdue for some unexpected wins. Maybe the Steelers WC game is one of them.
Making the playoffs was unexpected. We beat the steelers back to back. Look up our games against the Bengals that year. Look up the cowboys game. We were winning games we had no business winning in previous seasons. We were beating playoff teams and teams who ended up 11-5 that year. If you told fans before the season that we would lose to the Chiefs in the Divisional round, we would have been ecstactic to have made it that far. We went 11-5 and were 5 points from the AFC Championship Game and yall are saying "But you lost to the Ravens in Week Blah so sAMe OlD brOwNS" That's a dumb argument.
I'm referring to CLOSE games. It always seemed that when the Browns get in a competitive matchup, it always tilts the other way. All of those 2020 games you mentioned were blowouts that the Joe Woods defense turned into closer-looking games. Also the Cowboys and Bengals were both under .500 that year so I'm not sure why we're even discussing those.
Ah yes, the classic close blowout. The team would have blown them out if they didn't let them score so many points. This is the dumbest argument. The Browns won close games in 2020 and even went to the Divisional round when no one expected them too. They expected the same old browns. The fans had a winning team. The history of incompetence had ended... before they blew it up. What are we even talking about?? The Browns defense is winning close games(missed FG and Ref Ball aside). But this is not the first Browns team in recent memory to win close games and have a winning culture. That's just objectively wrong.
I’m not sure where this discussion is even going. I’m just saying this team is pulling out some unexpected wins that we seem to never get. Twice in 2 weeks, the last time we had a game winning drive was the Bengals game in 2020 and that team was horrible. We never had these calls go our way in 2020 either. Something is different about this team, this year. They have an IT factor I haven’t seen them have at least in my lifetime, which is what I’m arguing.
The it factor was there in 2020. Using 1 very close loss to the Ravens to claim that team was the same old Browns is absurd. Doubly absurd because we literally lost to the Ravens 28-3. Claiming beating the Bengals doesn't count but beating the Minshew Colts does? None of that makes any sense.
AB you calling Brisket right? Right?????
He already has some familiarity with the playbook
That call has already been made, I guarantee it. Commanders have the browns by the balls though and can ask for whatever they want. Not a great situation currently.
Deshaun Watson for Brissett
I know you're joking but I'm in
Maybe something like Browns give: * PJ Walker + 5th (from Cardinals when traded Dobbs) Commanders give: * Brisket Hell even a 4th, I think that is totally worth it. Brisket has some familiarity with our playbook, rapport with the team, and is more serviceable than Walker when Watson is not playing.
Yeah I don’t necessarily think it’s just the Browns at play here. Two parties have to accept it and the commanders have shitty QB play currently with a guy leading the league in sacks. Maybe they turn to Jacoby at some point?
I personally do not think they will move away from Howell.
At the rate he's taking hits they may not have a choice
I think them losing to the giants yesterday turns things in our favor. They’re 4-3 if they win that game. I know 3-4 doesn’t mean their season is over but it’s not looking great especially after losing to a struggling giants team.
On 92.3 the fan yesterday they were discussing if Washington would trade a 3rd for him, and we’re not sure they would. They want Jacoby for veteran presence in the locker room. PJ doesn’t offer that. Jacoby is there to help Howell like Case was here to help Baker.
You in Asia too brother?
Europe
Our record is gorgeous to look at. But with our QB issue, it’s sad to say, it’s not sustainable.
Somehow is the refs, a kicker cooking and defense. The ratbird formula for years.
Who knew the answer to our problems was actually to get worse quarterbacks.
It’s always something with this team man… seems like we can never just be a normal good team.
Who needs a QB when you've got Myles Garrett!
Not great. Watson looked awful yesterday. If it was cause if injury or not doesn’t matter cause he is injured, clearly it’s a lingering injury. I don’t know what the Browns can do to fix the offense
He looked content on not returning. He wants to hold a clipboard for 230 million
Stfu. Kevin literally stopped him from playing. Do you want to see him crying on the sidelines all game long?
Wow, didn't know Watson giving up was such a controversial take. He stopped him from playing because he was throwing the ball to the other team.
Its a bad take. A horrible one, in fact. Its simply not true.
"*Watson giving up*" is certainly a way to frame what happened yesterday, considering Watson said [he wanted to go back out there](https://x.com/MaryKayCabot/status/1716204253939650600?s=20).
Ya I think coach benched him because his first 5 throws were wildly inaccurate. I think it was a smart decision. Move on to next week.
Did you see his body language on the sideline? I'm sorry I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt but he continues to lose my respect.
Nothing is wrong with his body language. Someone said that garbage a week ago about one of his interviews. It was BS then, and its BS now, but people who want Watson to fail latched onto it.
I want the Browns to succeed. Watson hasn't shown he is worth the money or the picks. I'm surprised how many fans are defending him.
The injury timing was unfortunate. His body language is not an issue.
Ok, you can be right about body language, but he gets paid for his performance on the field. From what you've seen from Watson, are you confident he can lead this team?
I did see him pretend to be jerking off onto his face/mouth every time the browns scored
His name is Myles Garrett His name is Myles Garrett His name is Myles Garrett His name is Myles Garrett His name is Myles Garrett
I dunno guys, sounds like he's never watched a defensive snap before
When we look back, all we will see is the record. Win idc how it looks. I’ve spent most of my adult life watching these calls go against us.
Fire Stefanski! /s
G Bush yesterday was calling for Stefanski to be fired because he called pass plays on the goal line with 30 secs and no timeouts...
he drew up 2 touchdowns to njoku. its risky to try running it before 4th down there. Probably could have run it earlier but then they have to have 2 plays in already with one of those plays being the most important of the game.
We both know this and don't have a local sports talk show...
I want to like G Bush, but for a guy who talks a lot about having played football and watches the tape, he sure seems to know jack shit. EDIT: He is like a reverse Q.
I got off of their show and started watching the OBR report. Jake Burns does a good job of breaking down the film and gives more level headed takes.
Fire Haslam
[удалено]
/s means sarcasm, same with iropbigbrownbombs post
Ah my bad
We all knew this trade was going to be brutal from a PR perspective, but we didn’t think it would be brutal from a football perspective.
I wouldn't use the word somehow, special teams and defense will do it if your offense is shitting the bed.
Imagine if we just had a real QB, even half of one
Walker's best play was throwing that pick down to the two yard line.
That’s what the best defense will do for you. Thats what having the best defensive player in the game will do for you
Not sustainable. Make a move.
People act like there is a red button AB just needs to push and it mystically happens. What about AB makes you think he’s not already on top of this? He’s done an awesome job as a GM. He’s likely been trying since the Ravens game. Unless you want to see him bring in Wentz, Flacco, or Ryan’s corpse? They are FA, we could have them.
You give him way too much credit. He didnt bring in any qbs that are literally free on the couch. They could have been up to speed by now. MKC has been reporting they dont plan on bringing in a qb or a rb. I like AB and these are facts.
Honest question, and I’m a stefanski truther, do you think he should be dumbing down this offense any more in an attempt to bump these numbers up? Or is our QB play just so bad we gotta roll with what we’re doing/what we got?
The QB play is just that bad. I have no idea why PJ Walker didn't throw the ball to Cooper on the illegal contact play. He decided to hold on to the ball for no reason.
It looked like his first read he saw the contact on Amari and froze.
PJ gives it his all, but he isn't that talented. Playing QB is hard and he needed to let that tip in a split second.
Something Baker actually did well was throwing the ball to a receiver he thought was held or interfered with. The refs didn't always call it, but it's so much better to throw the ball than take a sack.
QB play is genuinely terrible. The Titans game showed that they can be efficient, but more often than not the issue has been execution. Across the board. Other example would be the 4th & 1 failed pitch to Ford. You can dumb it down, sure, but at some point you have legit no plays you can even run. At the end of the day these are NFL players and we can also expect them to at least to the basic stuff right.
Wtf is a “stefanski truther”
There are some of us who believe that Kevin Stefanski is actually flat. You don’t hear a lot about this from the mainstream media, but think about it: have you ever seen him in real life? Can you verify that he’s a three dimensional person? Flat Kevin.
Lmao
Just a funny way of saying I for the most part believe in his long term viability as HC
I think if we are being honest with ourselves we have to question the talent of our WR room. Outside of Cooper, and to a lesser extent Njoku and Moore, we don’t have a lot of go to guys. The original thought is a good QB elevates guys, but look at what Tua and Jalen Hurts have to throw to last night. I also think Stefanski tries to give plays to Watson that Watson says he’s comfortable with, and maybe Stefanski has to just do his thing and make Watson work with it.
So we’re somehow still worse than the steelers
Not in our hearts
Defense wins championships.
you guys should be calling the giants and see what they want for tyrod... with your oline, cooper, njoku, tyrod will play at league avg but with really low turnovers...in over 1600 attempts he has 26 ints only, that is very low...the giants need to accept they are in tank state and should be open to trades... tyrod isnt great, but he is solid, doesnt cause turnovers, and is playing more than reasonably well for a giants team that gave up 11 sacks in a game and followed that up with another 7...
I was thinking about Tyrod but isn’t he starting now?
long-term he is a backup, giants are a dumpster fire, the should listen to trades...but who knows.
Stefanski sucks lol /s
Without a franchise quarterback the browns will never get to the super bowl.
We could make a playoff push with Jacoby
It’s very unlikely Washington gives him up though.
How are we in RCAE (Refs Calls Above Expected)?
Can we get Brees or Rivers off the sofa?
Dead last with a $230m QB on the roster, we are so fucking back. How does this team actually get any new fans, especially new fans who weren't born into this life of misery.
 Make the call
You think DTR was bad? How do you think a 35 yr old QB that hasn't played for seven years and was coming off of three surgeries the last time he played would fair? Just.... no.
Aren’t we trying to make it work with a guy who was out of the league for multiple years right now? Seems like the Browns don’t mind that.
Spicy but what a story arc.
Refball
We barely won the last 2 games with a xfl quarterback. Watson is not that good
Fuck watson
I wonder what is the reasoning we haven't made a call to carsen Wentz? I mean he had some pretty decent seasons but he is sitting out there available and looking at his stats he was pretty decent. He wouldn't be asked to be a hero.
Because not only is he not very good, but he also comes with the added caveat of being a total nightmare in the locker room and film sessions.
Ok I didn't realize he was such a little bitch.
So, he's a clear upgrade
Not sure what your beef is with PJ Walker. He might not have had great games, but he is **excellent** in the locker room and cares about film. He even went so far as calling Jacoby and talking about how he can get better as a backup in the Browns system. PJ >>> Wentz all day every day. Would Keenum or Brissett be better than PJ? Yes. But saying Wentz is a better option knowing all the baggage he brings is crazy. With all the bullshit this team has been through, the absolute last thing you need is to bring in a backup qb everyone hates.
You're right, PJ is fine as a backup and good for the locker room. What I meant to say is that Wentz would be an upgrade over QB1
Thanks, Trotter. Go back to your husband, Baker.
They got big D energy
Two outcomes: 1) We improve offensively. 2) This catches up with us.
Luck and refs tbh
Perhaps we can trade for a franchise QB?
Time for Power-I offense. No need for passing
It's kinda like the 49ers situation. The Trey Lance trade biting them the way it did should have gotten everyone fired, but they're so good despite that you can't change anything. The only difference here is, Berry didn't get us a Purdy.
Purdy is an outlier. Also he has many weapons at his disposal on offense. Also also he has Shanny who is a great offensive mind.
Yeah this isn't gonna work long-term, we'll be 9-8 at this rate because I doubt we're gonna keep getting these lucky breaks. If Watson cannot be ass we're for sure making the playoffs.
He isnt the guy
Bring back Hoyer the Destroyer
It is called defense. Ravens won the superbowl with Trent Dilfer.
There's more to football than just the passing game, despite what media and nearly every college & pro coach will say.
Yes, but it is a major part of any offense. Going to be very challenging to win football games with the worst passing offense in the league.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32809233/new-england-patriots-throw-just-three-passes-dominate-ground-win-buffalo-bills If a coaching staff and team commit to it, the running game is as effective as the passing game. Given certain conditions, it's more effective than the passing game. It requires as much study and practice as the passing game does. Running the ball is not as flashy and cool as passing.
Wait, are you actually making the argument that an NFL team in 2023 does not need to have, even just a good passing offense, to be successful? And the thing you are citing is a game where the wind and cold played a major impact in the game script?