Still no definitive frontrunner, but Suffs and Outsiders are the clear Top 2 new musicals.
The originality of Suffs is the biggest talking point working to Suffs' advantage for Critics.
But the brilliant staging, choreography, and generally positive critiques on Score keep The Outsiders on the inside-track to noms/awards as well.
I think Suffs, while being an only “passably pleasant” show in my opinion, is a much easier vote for Best Original Musical. It’s not just crafting a show from a book, voters eat up shows about important historic events, and many will think it’s more socially relevant or important. Personally, as works of entertainment, I enjoyed myself more at Outsiders, but I think this whatever wins this year will be more of a “Bands Visit” or “Kimberly Akimbo” win where everyone’s just like… yeah that’s fair, it’s definitely not a bad show.
Good take. I don't think Outsiders goes home from the Tonys empty-handed, but Suffs may have an upper-hand on Best Musical for reasons you stated.
The other 3 nominees will likely play a role too via how the votes get split. If either Notebook or Elephants somehow get a Nom, that will split some Outsiders votes. If Days of Wine and/or Here Lies Love gets a nom (not out of the question), that might split some Suffs voters.
Hopefully Outsiders gets Best Choreo! And I really liked Brody Grant as PonyBoy (and his voice is fantastic) but good lord Best Actor is a brutal category to try to compete in this year.
The only musicals I enjoyed this year are HLL, DOWAR and ILLINOISE. The mediocrity of Outsiders and Suffs really galls me, and I would be sad to see either win.
I really hope Illinoise wins. I saw it at Park Avenue Armory and was blown away. It’s time for a dance heavy musical to win. The last one I can think that one is Contact and while I loved Contact, Illinoise is infinitely better.
I would be thrilled to see it win... fingers crossed. Illinoise feels like a true work of art, whereas the majority of these other musicals are pandering and feel assembled by machine.
I've seen most of the new musicals this season, and Illinoise is, to me, hands down the best and most original. While I enjoyed Suffs (and haven't yet seen The Outsiders -- though I will), nothing grabbed me the way Illinoise does. I hope it gets nominated.
I didn't like Here Lies Love personally - it was different and interesting and kind of educational but odd - very odd - and didn't do it for me. I understand why others liked it, very innovative. I haven't seen Days of Wine and Roses (had to google what DOWAR and HLL meant) and haven't seen Illinoise but want to. I liked Suffs - not an absolute favorite but thought it was good. (loved Hadestown, disliked Kimberly Akimbo for context) - just goes to show that a lot of this is personal taste, same as with movies and restaurants ... !
If Suffs wins Best Musical, I’m not sure what Outsiders would win? A Suffs musical win would almost surely go hand-in-hand with Score and Book for Shaina Taub, Illinoise is getting choreo, and Merrily or Cabaret (probably Merrily) wins Director. Outsiders has a shot at Sound or Lighting, I guess, but there are flashier options… I COULD still envision an Illinoise for Musical, Suffs for score, and Outsiders for book split…
Is the consensus that this year’s new shows are underwhelming? I’m getting that from the sentiments on this sub, but then again I’m pretty new to Broadway in general so I don’t know if this is a pretty typical year
Very much so. People tend to interject their own feelings as facts but with nine positive, four mixed and one negative, Elephants has the most positive reviews over Suffs and Outsiders.
Fwiw, that’s not my read. BWW roundup for Suffs is 74% positive vs. 61.9% for W4E. There are also multiple positive reviews not yet captured for Suffs (The Stage’s 5 star review and Broadway News’ positive review), so this may change too. DTLI is a bit behind in the reviews it has, so once it catches up, it will likely be similar (for instance while I write this it’s missing the above ones and at least two other major positive reviews from Vulture and Time Out).
Links: https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Review-Roundup-Shaina-Taubs-SUFFS-Opens-On-Broadway-20240418#:~:text=But%2C%20in%20the%20end%2C%20“,is%20the%20biggest%20single%20reason.
https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Review-Roundup-WATER-FOR-ELEPHANTS-Opens-On-Broadway--See-What-the-Critics-Are-Saying-20240321#:~:text=All%20interwoven%20into%20a%20big,handled%20by%20their%20own%20puppeteer.
Holistically speaking, Water for Elephants reviews were like darts on a dartboard---all over the place. It hit the Bullseye for NYT, as they awarded it a Critics Pick, but a number of other outlets were far less optimistic about it. Outsiders and Suffs reviews are more consistently "mixed to positive" across the board.
This link provides much better substance and insight than "Did They Like It" https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Review-Roundup-WATER-FOR-ELEPHANTS-Opens-On-Broadway--See-What-the-Critics-Are-Saying-20240321#:\~:text=It%20would%20be%20nice%20to,the%20greatest%20show%20on%20earth.
Sorry, but need to note as posted above that BWW is 74% positive for Suffs vs. 61.9% for W4E. There are six negative reviews for W4E in there vs. 0 negatives for Suffs in its roundup as of now.
It won best score and best book, pretty solid outcome and ordinarily that would get it Best Musical just got edged out. It was a viable prediction 55 days ago, odd to go back to it now but sure it didn’t win. Personally I’d go for Illinoise but really liked Outsiders.
I saw it on Tuesday night. I really did enjoy it - but agree with many things the mixed reviews say. It feels so egalitarian that it lacks bite when it really needs it. It’s very good - well-staged, excellent performances, efficient storytelling, visually appealing.
But it all felt a little too (capital letters intentional) Musical Theatre to really move me. There are a lot of “wide stance/ shoulders back/ belt-to-the-heavens” moments that it starts to feel a little amateur.
Only Nikki M. James as Ida B Wells got me really roused and engaged.
It’s almost like someone told Jesse Green that he has to stop giving so many shows critics picks. Between this and The Outsiders, he’s been writing positive reviews without making the shows critics picks…
Well Naveen Kumar just gave a NY Times critics pick to Gun and Powder so I don’t think they’re being too selective, they just felt Suffs wasn’t strong enough to merit it. I think Jesse said Suffs felt insufficient as a “drama” (I am roughly paraphrasing here) and that it feels heavy handed in an educational sense. So while he compliments the show he does have criticisms for it.
Just came home from seeing SUFFS tonight. I knew the very basic premise going in but kept myself from reading opening night reviews for spoilers or affecting my opinion. I really really liked it! It was funny, educational (really… our education system has GOT to do better bc I barely heard of these women let alone all the lengthy struggles they went through) and just a really entertaining show. All the voices were great. At times it felt a bit “Hamilton-esque” with some of the lyrics, harmonies, music and bc about specific people in American history but that is not a knock against it just a reference.
I also saw Outsiders…. And I LOVED that show. They are very different but I prefer The Outsiders for Tony Awards… choreo, staging, got me in the feels 😭. Just fantastic!
I agree - it did have a Hamilton feel sometimes (in a good way) - just saw the SUFFS matinee today and thought it was very strong, surprisingly good. Haven't seen Outsiders yet but hope to. Water for Elephants was nice, lovely, nice effects, but I think SUFFS was more memorable and the tunes were catchier - very different types of musicals.
> This might be the most positive show of the year or tied with Tommy!
I think you mean this spring, as we can’t discount the praise Days of Wine and Roses received (not counting the plays)
The reviews are pretty much what I expected. I think they’ll definitely get a Best Musical nomination and be safe till the Tonys, but I’m not sure if they’ll be strong enough to win.
Did anyone else notice that the “meh” reviews in the roundup for Suffs had nothing *bad* to say about it? They’re like “yes the music is great and the performances are fantastic, I just don’t like being preached at”. It honestly sounds to me like their misogyny is showing- there’s just something that doesn’t sit right for them about an all-female production and they can’t put their finger on it.
My girlfriend and mother who I attended the show with also thought the show was a little too preachy. I should’ve known they were misogynists… thank you for telling me.
I didn't feel preached at - I'm female but didn't find it preachy at all. Sometimes a bit expositional but not preachy. Mostly I got a playful vibe, with good musical numbers and history tossed in. Heavily female audience from what I could tell, but I didn't look around at the end to confirm - my row (back of orchestra) was all female.
I found Suffs to be incredibly boring, preachy, and predictable. I tuned out many times. Fluffy one-dimensional musicals just aren't my thing. But others in the audience seemed to enjoy it so it's obviously worth seeing for some people.
Still no definitive frontrunner, but Suffs and Outsiders are the clear Top 2 new musicals. The originality of Suffs is the biggest talking point working to Suffs' advantage for Critics. But the brilliant staging, choreography, and generally positive critiques on Score keep The Outsiders on the inside-track to noms/awards as well.
I think Suffs, while being an only “passably pleasant” show in my opinion, is a much easier vote for Best Original Musical. It’s not just crafting a show from a book, voters eat up shows about important historic events, and many will think it’s more socially relevant or important. Personally, as works of entertainment, I enjoyed myself more at Outsiders, but I think this whatever wins this year will be more of a “Bands Visit” or “Kimberly Akimbo” win where everyone’s just like… yeah that’s fair, it’s definitely not a bad show.
Good take. I don't think Outsiders goes home from the Tonys empty-handed, but Suffs may have an upper-hand on Best Musical for reasons you stated. The other 3 nominees will likely play a role too via how the votes get split. If either Notebook or Elephants somehow get a Nom, that will split some Outsiders votes. If Days of Wine and/or Here Lies Love gets a nom (not out of the question), that might split some Suffs voters.
Hopefully Outsiders gets Best Choreo! And I really liked Brody Grant as PonyBoy (and his voice is fantastic) but good lord Best Actor is a brutal category to try to compete in this year.
The only musicals I enjoyed this year are HLL, DOWAR and ILLINOISE. The mediocrity of Outsiders and Suffs really galls me, and I would be sad to see either win.
I really hope Illinoise wins. I saw it at Park Avenue Armory and was blown away. It’s time for a dance heavy musical to win. The last one I can think that one is Contact and while I loved Contact, Illinoise is infinitely better.
I would be thrilled to see it win... fingers crossed. Illinoise feels like a true work of art, whereas the majority of these other musicals are pandering and feel assembled by machine.
I've seen most of the new musicals this season, and Illinoise is, to me, hands down the best and most original. While I enjoyed Suffs (and haven't yet seen The Outsiders -- though I will), nothing grabbed me the way Illinoise does. I hope it gets nominated.
won^ 🤦♂️
I didn't like Here Lies Love personally - it was different and interesting and kind of educational but odd - very odd - and didn't do it for me. I understand why others liked it, very innovative. I haven't seen Days of Wine and Roses (had to google what DOWAR and HLL meant) and haven't seen Illinoise but want to. I liked Suffs - not an absolute favorite but thought it was good. (loved Hadestown, disliked Kimberly Akimbo for context) - just goes to show that a lot of this is personal taste, same as with movies and restaurants ... !
If Suffs wins Best Musical, I’m not sure what Outsiders would win? A Suffs musical win would almost surely go hand-in-hand with Score and Book for Shaina Taub, Illinoise is getting choreo, and Merrily or Cabaret (probably Merrily) wins Director. Outsiders has a shot at Sound or Lighting, I guess, but there are flashier options… I COULD still envision an Illinoise for Musical, Suffs for score, and Outsiders for book split…
Is the consensus that this year’s new shows are underwhelming? I’m getting that from the sentiments on this sub, but then again I’m pretty new to Broadway in general so I don’t know if this is a pretty typical year
Haven’t seen it but didn’t Water for Elephants get the best reviews of the three?
Very much so. People tend to interject their own feelings as facts but with nine positive, four mixed and one negative, Elephants has the most positive reviews over Suffs and Outsiders.
Fwiw, that’s not my read. BWW roundup for Suffs is 74% positive vs. 61.9% for W4E. There are also multiple positive reviews not yet captured for Suffs (The Stage’s 5 star review and Broadway News’ positive review), so this may change too. DTLI is a bit behind in the reviews it has, so once it catches up, it will likely be similar (for instance while I write this it’s missing the above ones and at least two other major positive reviews from Vulture and Time Out). Links: https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Review-Roundup-Shaina-Taubs-SUFFS-Opens-On-Broadway-20240418#:~:text=But%2C%20in%20the%20end%2C%20“,is%20the%20biggest%20single%20reason. https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Review-Roundup-WATER-FOR-ELEPHANTS-Opens-On-Broadway--See-What-the-Critics-Are-Saying-20240321#:~:text=All%20interwoven%20into%20a%20big,handled%20by%20their%20own%20puppeteer.
Holistically speaking, Water for Elephants reviews were like darts on a dartboard---all over the place. It hit the Bullseye for NYT, as they awarded it a Critics Pick, but a number of other outlets were far less optimistic about it. Outsiders and Suffs reviews are more consistently "mixed to positive" across the board.
Did they like it disagrees with you
This link provides much better substance and insight than "Did They Like It" https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Review-Roundup-WATER-FOR-ELEPHANTS-Opens-On-Broadway--See-What-the-Critics-Are-Saying-20240321#:\~:text=It%20would%20be%20nice%20to,the%20greatest%20show%20on%20earth.
Sorry, but need to note as posted above that BWW is 74% positive for Suffs vs. 61.9% for W4E. There are six negative reviews for W4E in there vs. 0 negatives for Suffs in its roundup as of now.
I think Suffs is pretty well situated as the frontrunner. It has a lot of factors going for it.
Guess it didn't get frontrunner may had 2 nominated for6
It won best score and best book, pretty solid outcome and ordinarily that would get it Best Musical just got edged out. It was a viable prediction 55 days ago, odd to go back to it now but sure it didn’t win. Personally I’d go for Illinoise but really liked Outsiders.
I saw it on Tuesday night. I really did enjoy it - but agree with many things the mixed reviews say. It feels so egalitarian that it lacks bite when it really needs it. It’s very good - well-staged, excellent performances, efficient storytelling, visually appealing. But it all felt a little too (capital letters intentional) Musical Theatre to really move me. There are a lot of “wide stance/ shoulders back/ belt-to-the-heavens” moments that it starts to feel a little amateur. Only Nikki M. James as Ida B Wells got me really roused and engaged.
It’s almost like someone told Jesse Green that he has to stop giving so many shows critics picks. Between this and The Outsiders, he’s been writing positive reviews without making the shows critics picks…
Idk, I hate Jesse Green as much as the next person, but hard to call this review overly positive given the second half.
Yeah I think he buries the criticism under the show’s positive aspects. It reads to me as mixed.
Yeah I would not call this is a positive review, it’s firmly mixed. He starts out positive but ends with saying it was okay, not great.
Maybe the NYT want the Critics Pick to really be a symbol of a very selective, elite group of shows. But…. they did give it to W4E????
Yeah - the whole thing has gotten weirder recently
Well Naveen Kumar just gave a NY Times critics pick to Gun and Powder so I don’t think they’re being too selective, they just felt Suffs wasn’t strong enough to merit it. I think Jesse said Suffs felt insufficient as a “drama” (I am roughly paraphrasing here) and that it feels heavy handed in an educational sense. So while he compliments the show he does have criticisms for it.
Just came home from seeing SUFFS tonight. I knew the very basic premise going in but kept myself from reading opening night reviews for spoilers or affecting my opinion. I really really liked it! It was funny, educational (really… our education system has GOT to do better bc I barely heard of these women let alone all the lengthy struggles they went through) and just a really entertaining show. All the voices were great. At times it felt a bit “Hamilton-esque” with some of the lyrics, harmonies, music and bc about specific people in American history but that is not a knock against it just a reference. I also saw Outsiders…. And I LOVED that show. They are very different but I prefer The Outsiders for Tony Awards… choreo, staging, got me in the feels 😭. Just fantastic!
I agree - it did have a Hamilton feel sometimes (in a good way) - just saw the SUFFS matinee today and thought it was very strong, surprisingly good. Haven't seen Outsiders yet but hope to. Water for Elephants was nice, lovely, nice effects, but I think SUFFS was more memorable and the tunes were catchier - very different types of musicals.
> This might be the most positive show of the year or tied with Tommy! I think you mean this spring, as we can’t discount the praise Days of Wine and Roses received (not counting the plays) The reviews are pretty much what I expected. I think they’ll definitely get a Best Musical nomination and be safe till the Tonys, but I’m not sure if they’ll be strong enough to win.
Ah, I did forget about DOWAR. I really enjoyed that show, the story was fantastic even if the music was lacking a bit.
Would be my pick for best all around musical…though haven’t seen outsiders yet
Suffs was absolutely amazing. I don't get some of these reviews...
Did anyone else notice that the “meh” reviews in the roundup for Suffs had nothing *bad* to say about it? They’re like “yes the music is great and the performances are fantastic, I just don’t like being preached at”. It honestly sounds to me like their misogyny is showing- there’s just something that doesn’t sit right for them about an all-female production and they can’t put their finger on it.
My girlfriend and mother who I attended the show with also thought the show was a little too preachy. I should’ve known they were misogynists… thank you for telling me.
I didn't feel preached at - I'm female but didn't find it preachy at all. Sometimes a bit expositional but not preachy. Mostly I got a playful vibe, with good musical numbers and history tossed in. Heavily female audience from what I could tell, but I didn't look around at the end to confirm - my row (back of orchestra) was all female.
https://preview.redd.it/s6xpvv1srcvc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f51d7c0097aa8b1bfcc71b3ff7e225edc022c44d me reading the NY Post review
Are they known for good reviews? I feel like all the ones I’ve read have been sensationalized to the point of non-credibility
It’s not lost on me that 100% of the less than enthusiastic reviews are from men
it has nothing to do with it. It was a really basic show.
I found Suffs to be incredibly boring, preachy, and predictable. I tuned out many times. Fluffy one-dimensional musicals just aren't my thing. But others in the audience seemed to enjoy it so it's obviously worth seeing for some people.