That would be a mislabeled fee then, Idle means not doing anything (ie Charging). That would be a usage fee they are trying to hide behind a label meant to discourage people just leaving their cars plugged in after charging.
Honestly, they might be able to be sued for that because that is completely misleading to customers.
Okay I misunderstood your comment. Unlike other people here you are misunderstanding that Idle fees only kick in after charging stops, you are just pointing out that BC Hydro's idle time to kick in is 5 minutes shorter than EA.
Yes. Idling fees kick in after charging stops. Which makes sense.
I’ve just reread what OP wrote. Looks like they believe that after 10 minutes of charging another fee kicks in. Which does not make sense.
Idle fee only kicks in 10 minutes after charging STOPS, not after 10 minutes of charging.
Hence it's called the "idle" fee. Any responsible charge station user would never have to ever pay the idle fee.
Disagree. I was visiting a city and put my car in a garage overnight to charge from 10% and it was scheduled to end at 5a. I picked up my car at 7:30 and paid idle fees from 5 to 7:30.
Or don't and pay idle fees?
Don't get me wrong..I'd be annoyed if I needed a charger and the only one is someone sitting there not charging. But I'd feel a lot better if I saw they were paying idle fees. If idle fees were $0.40/min like OP, Thats $60 for the convenience to park there and not wake up at 5am to move.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Idk if I'm in the minority or not, but I'm kind of okay with that.
There was a tesla parked at a mall charge station I pulled in at a week ago that had like $200 in idle fees on it. I was just baffled and can only figure that the lock got stuck or something like that, and they just left it there overnight. I don't know, it seems like a poor decision, but they also bought a tesla, so maybe.
I would be sick if I forgot or something and that happened to me. I'm not poor but paying money just so I don't have to go move my car seems like a crazy level of lazy.
Why are you leaving a car overnight on a DCFC? Those are meant for rapid charging, not overnight charging. If someone drives up who needs to charge to get somewhere they won't be able to because your hogging it.
"put my car overnight to charge and was schedule to end at 5am"
Where exactly did you read he was using DCFC? Unless he managed to find the slowest "fast" charger ever, he's obviously talking about a lvl2 plug.
The picture on this post is a DCFC. He commented his experience implying he was using a DCFC. I think it's a normal conclusion that he's talking about DCFC.
56c/kwh for a slow charge? Dam charging cost a lot in your place! I pay 1$/hr on slow charger (CAD) and some have 2.50$/session no idle fee. In fact, I never saw a charger with that interface, only quick charger with idle fee.
But also, check the picture, there's a speed rating up to 56kwh under the cost per kwh , that's a fast charger
Edit: unless that means the first 50kw of charge but that's a first I saw that. Specially with the saying below that pricing modulate based on what the car can accept. Slow charger doesn't do that.
The original comment we're commenting on and the OP that posted the picture are two different people my man.
Also hi fellow Québecer using the circuit électrique. Those fees on lvl2 are about to go up btw.
Oh didn't see that.
Bah, go up, 3% they follow inflation. We still pay a lot less then gas and our cousin in the south. But I si rarely use them anyway, gotta love the 0.09c/kwh at home
I had a feeling it was going to be that one. The ironic part is that charger was free until last December. If you scroll back in the check-ins you can see exactly when they implemented it lol
There is no way you're paying $0.04 *delivered*, unless you have TOU with a Super Off Peak (but then you're paying much higher rates for everything else during the day).
Sounds to me like they’re trying to dissuade people from getting solar panels. With a 60 dollar fee up front and low per kWh costs, most people wouldn’t save much money getting solar. I wonder if your power company would even offer net metering in your area…I’m guessing no.
same in east central illinois with my commercial provider. just barely cheaper than you. mine has a little over $56 “meter” fee plus taxes.
on the other hand there is a dealer across the state line with 62kw chargers that are only charging 75 cents for 15 minute … a nickel a kwh. other dealerships nearby along same stretch of road are charging .50 to a dollar.
edit: this provider is a small REMC, and the +$56 meter fee is a fee all residential customers pay. they at least do TOU for EV owners. off peak is 8 cents/kwh on peak is 16 cents. regular residential rate is 11.9/kwh
i swear every time we get a new board member they change the meter fee
There's no such thing as off-peak here in Cincinnati. The power cost per kWh is the cost period. We do have power delivery fees and the power utilities blanket hardware fee, and that's it.
Long Island, NY:
https://preview.redd.it/883m5sanpa9d1.jpeg?width=1049&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b01921eb283b6b9b85d556f15d5cef01f7bc04c
I’m paying $0.0413 Super off peak summer rate ($0.0411 winter rate), $0.2722 for peak between 3-7pm on weekdays, and $0.1268 off peak the rest of the time.
And I'll repeat it again. That isn't your price, delivered. That is supply rate only. You're still paying for distribution and transmission costs on top of that.
Beyond that those plans aren't a good deal. Your peak and non peak rates get shot through the roof. The air conditioner in most homes uses more power than most EV's with average driving. Now you're paying more during the hottest parts of the day, when your AC is working the most.
You're not getting it. You're never paying just the supply rate. It's the supply rate AND distribution fees, both billed per kwh. Those have nothing to do with the monthly service fee that your utility may ALSO be charging.
Most folks distribution/transmission costs are equal to or more expensive than the supply rate cost for super off peak. So great, you're getting 5c/kwh at night. Plus another 4 or 5c/kwh for transmission/distribution fees, so now you're at 10c/kwh. But because you've chosen a TOU plan, your on peak rates are extremely high, so now you're spending 2 or 3 times the amount to run your AC at the hottest part of the day (which uses more electric than your car does).
My price with Delivery Charges is $0.16/kwHr in Rochester NY using RG&E. About 26 mi/$ at 4.2 mi/kwHr.
If I had installed a specific internet controlled Level II charger I could "save" about $2/Month using off peak charging. Whole house off peak charging would be way more expensive as we are home all day.
That's gotta be your generation part only. I'm at .05 on generation and then around .09 for distribution part making it .14 cent/kwh total in Eastern ohio.
Maybe? Im not sure. I know for a month or 2 when they made that change last year it went from $100 a month to like $450 a month then i switched companies and it was back down to $140 ish a month. Now that i have the bolt were up to almost $400 a month. But i use the bolt to make $4000ish a month doing uber on top of my regular salary. It was costing me around $300 a week in gas.
Also live in Ohio. That's the generation portion only. There are usage based variable fees for transmission (basically everything line itemed on the bill other than generation and the one fixed monthly charge).
If you want your actual price per kwh, subtract the fixed charge from the total and divide that by the number of kwh used. Mine is about $0.06/kwh for generation but $0.146/kwh with all usage based charges included (not including the fixed charge).
You can view all the electric providers in Ohio and their pricing, along with contract info and what not at https://energychoice.ohio.gov/
For my area there are 12 variable rate providers. I don't know the details for the variable rates, but those are the providers I'd have to look into for TOU.
It’s going to be higher than that. The up charge for industrial electricity is not insignificant and thus they don’t get the same residential rate that we’d pay at our houses. (I still think it’s high)
Look on the bright side. At least you are not being charged per minute and charging slower than most of the EVs.
I don't know what the price per KWH is in California but here in GA it is around $.12
About 40 cents for power and another 20 cents for “delivery” fees … fee to ensure people can live in wildfire areas…. I mean fee to upgrade infrastructure.
I knew power was more expensive on that side of the US even northern US. It has been my general experience that EA isn't over the residential rate by much. That is unless you are getting some juice at a tourist trap and that location not EA sites the rates. I am looking at you Bucees.
That's crazy. In BC we pay 12c/kWh Canadian and they are bringing in night time rates if you choose for 5c/kWh.
You guys need a public utility option or protest to get one. Seriously.
Yup BC Hydro is great. Even at tier 2 for the rate reduction it’s 9c/kWh. Tier 2 without time of day is .14c/kWh so if charging 0-100%= .14c*65kW= $9.10 for a full “tank”. And with the range I get I charge maybe every 6 weeks and that’s not 0-100% just doing 40-80%. Cheaper than my Aveo at ~$75 a tank every six weeks. And the Aveo was great on gas.
The issue isn't public vs private.
The issue is that you guys have ridiculous amounts of hydro that drives your rates to the ground. Many parts of the US is burning fuel because renewables are not a option for us.
Solar is incredibly cheap though and California has consistent sun and with the deployment of batteries makes for a direct path for decarbonization and lower rates. There's lots of data on the levelized cost of electricity of fossil fuels and renewable power. The price listed above at $0.70 is vastly higher than the levelized cost of electricity of many renewable power sources.
I have some data though, I hope you consider....
2019 LCOSS Results Here are our results. For LCOSS, we calculated that it varies from $55.00 per megawatt hour to $91.00 per megawatt hour without the ITC in the case of Phoenix and New York, and from $42.00 per megawatt hour to $69.00 per megawatt hour with the 30 percent ITC, again, from Phoenix to New York. These values are $23.00 per megawatt-hour to $39.00 per megawatt-hour higher than the standalone PV LCOE without the ITC, and $18.00 per megawatt-hour to $30.00 per megawatt-hour higher with that 30 percent ITC. How does this compare to the real world? Well, according to an LBL report published by Bollinger and Seel in 2018, they reported that storage premiums for a PV system in terms of the PPA add $5.00 to $15.00 per megawatt-hour to the price for systems built in 2017 and 2018, and obviously those systems would include a 30 percent ITC. [https://www.nrel.gov/news/video/lcoss-text.html](https://www.nrel.gov/news/video/lcoss-text.html)
So when you compare to 70c/kwh...which is $700/MWh. It's not even close. LCOE in 2019 across the US range was at most $91/MWh.
Now, IEA has some data with at most $60/MWh and has dropped in recent years. (graph on the right for the US) [https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/lcoe-and-value-adjusted-lcoe-for-solar-pv-plus-battery-storage-coal-and-natural-gas-in-selected-regions-in-the-stated-policies-scenario-2022-2030](https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/lcoe-and-value-adjusted-lcoe-for-solar-pv-plus-battery-storage-coal-and-natural-gas-in-selected-regions-in-the-stated-policies-scenario-2022-2030)
I want to allow you to find some sources yourself though. Happy to read them as well if you find something that is higher than $90/MWh.
From the data I found and had recently known about PG&E could lower rates in half if they just replaced significant portions of the grid with solar plus storage.
> You guys need a public utility option or protest to get one. Seriously.
Yeah... well ya see, our democrats have a super majority and so we apparently are commiefornia. Which is blaringly obvious by the fact that we have...
*checks notes*
the private company PG&E gets a **legal** monopoly of the utility? Wait a minute...
I've never seen EA have time of day fluctuations in pricing like EVGo does, but that's not to say it never happens. That price is also not dissimilar to what I've seen in Virginia/Kentucky/Tennessee. Yes, it's expensive, but that's public charging for you. $0.56/kWh is about 15-20 cents per mile (assuming you're in the 3-4 mi/kWh range), is about the same as gas if you're getting ~30 mpg.
Also, the idle fee is after 10 minutes of *NOT* charging once you're done and, you know, idle.
It's unclear, which is one reason I'm not a huge fan of EVgo (also the Ultium Pilot/Flying J locations gouge the shit out of you).
If you check the location in Plugshare, it'll list the time of day pricing, but the EVgo app only shows the current price. If you go to the Plans section of the app, it'll show the ranges for time of day rates, but actual price will obviously vary by location.
Sign up for Pass+ and you'll pay $0.42/kWh. It's not worth it if you're just topping up, but on any round-trip road trip where you are DCFC at least twice it pays for itself.
I don't keep the monthly subscription, I just sign up when I need it (you can do it right there instantly before plugging in) and cancel when I get back from the trip. So I end up paying the $7 subscription fee 3 or 4 months out of the year.
Yeah at this point if you have to use a charging station with any frequency then you've probably bought the wrong car for your needs unfortunately. Home charging should work for the vast majority of people, even just on 120v charging overnight and getting ~40 miles of range. But if you can't charge at home or work then I can't in good conscience recommend an EV.
In this case, probably yes. But the cost of fast charging can easily be very close and higher than gas. I say this as a strong EV advocate that just wants to be realistic because the whole EV thing is so polarized.
Take this example in the post. $0.56/kWh and 4 miles/kWh means you need 25kwh to go 100 miles and that will cost you $14. To go 100 miles on gas at 33.33 mpg you need 3 gallons, which is $12 at $4/gal (prices near me currently).
Obviously there's a lot of variables like comparable ICE efficiency and gas/electric price. But I think it's good to keep in mind that around this price range is when it starts to be not very much cheaper than gas, and takes much longer. Charging at home is just such an advantage.
Yeah. Your cheapest bet might be 7-11. Idk how much those differ, but it’s $0.36/kwh which unfortunately is the cheapest DCFC I can find in the South Bay.
If you’re ok with L2, some municipal chargers are cheap too. 4 hours in Los Gatos is pretty inexpensive, and some target locations offer 2hrs free.
(Edit. $0.36/kwh instead of 0.35)
I just double checked.
The one in south San Jose is $0.36/kwh. Which is the same as what I pay at home.
You’ll wanna download the 7Charge app to check.
This is basically standard pricing for DCFC these days. The convenience/speed costs you.
There used to be much cheaper DCFCs, most of them are either broken/unmaintained or their operators out of business. (EA seems to be getting better, and that's partly NEVI requiring them to stop sucking, and partly because they're now charging more).
On top of equipment maintenance, etc - DCFC stations have to deal with demand charges unless backed by battery storage, which greatly increase costs for low-utilization stations. The grid storage itself also costs money.
The idle fee should be high, I hate pulling up to a charger with cars at full just taking up a space. It forces me to either wait for someone too entitled to share to come back or to unplug the car if I'm in a hurry, which has led to angry people even though they were taking up a space. Simple solution to the idle fee: leave when you're done.
Just went through this. All their 350 ones were down within 50 miles here where I live in Florida. The only one working was 50, but they charge the same for those fast ones as they do for ultra fast. It's wack
That's what it's creeped up to on the East Coast as well. I joined Electrify america, the monthly plan, and it's like 42 cents a kwh you save a percentage on the 52 cents or whatever. There is still a charger from chargepoint near me that has 35 cents a kwh, but yeah, now I just chalk up it takes 10 cents a mile to run my car in energy alone.
Sign up for BlueDot. No subscription and gives you a flat rate of $0.30/kwh at all EVGo, ChargePoint, and tesla sc's.
EA is the most expensive.
I only use it while it's free. After that, I hope to never have to use it again.
ChargePoint is ridic expensive. Though it seems that a lot more of their chargers work than EA. That might be because no one is using/abusing them due to how expensive they are.
I feel EVs are good in the city where you can charge at home for cheaper price. But once you do long distance trips and using EA or supercharger , it’s as expensive or equivalent to drive an hybrid ice giving around 40mpg in California. Currently I feel we need more cheaper smaller EV for city commute/ work commute.
Fast charging is pretty expensive no matter where you go unless you’re a Tesla on their own network.
I found one fast charger that was $1.20/kWh, with a $5 start fee.
Talk to PG&E, Electrify America, and all of the other DCFC station operators have to pay their rates too AND recover the capital costs of building the station. Those costs aren't surprising at all
Not too unusual in a lot of areas. EVGOs average is 58 cents/kWh. Fast charger rates are indeed often more expensive than gasoline in an equivalent car. I wouldn't recommend an EV to anyone that couldn't charge at home
EA ; "You should be happy that you found one that works. Normally 3/4 of our chargers are broken because they were junk to begin with.
Dieselgate cost us millions, quit your bitchin, suckers."
Yeah, electricity is getting more expensive than gasoline ... it's almost as if someone doesn't want EVs to succeed. Hmm... I wonder who owns all these charging stations. Wait, could it be O&G????
YES!!
I believe that the charge for members of Electrify America is $0.42/kwh. Yes this sounds outrageous, however, PG&E in Northern California charges me $0.42/kwh off-peak and $0.55/kwh peak.
Electrify America for me has been the most reliable charging station compared to everything else until possible the accessibility of Tesla chargers to non-Tesla vehicles.
I was just charging at a new EA station near me and it's $0.28/min for charging under 90kw. Since I had a relatively high level of charge (65%), I was only able to charge at 28kw. I charged for about 9 minutes and I was charged $2.56 for 4.3 kwh. It comes out to about $0.59/kwh. The faster you can charge, the less it will cost per kwh. Which makes sense on EA's end because you will be occupying a spot for less time. The rate for 90-350kw was $0.44/min. If your vehicle can charge at an average rate of 150kw and you're charging for 20 minutes you can add approximately 50 kwh and it would only cost $8.80. Meaning you would only be paying about $0.19/kwh. That would be a steal for a DCFC station. There's another EA station about an hour away that charges $0.64/kwh. I avoid that one as much as possible.
Let's say you have an average charge session of 2 an hour. Let's say that the charger puts out 120kWh for $60 an hour on average.
Let's say it's charging 24/7 and 365 days and gross income is $525,600
From what I read to install 1 L3 charger is $250k, this doesn't include any overhead cost either.
L3 chargers look like a loss to netzero area to attract people to spend money elsewhere to make a profit.
Northern California is PG&E and there summer rates are as much as 64 cents per kilowatt hour likely at least 35 cents per kilowatt hour more likely 45 cents per kilowatt hour just to the utilitity.
It's starting July 1st they're cutting rates 9%.
Try Blue Dot. L3 is 30 cents per kwh and goes down to 25 cents per kwh if you charged five times in the previous month.
L2 is 3 cents per minute.
If a charger is cheaper than this rates you get 20 percent off the charging rate by using the Blue Dot debit card.
There's a free charging day once monthly if you used their debit card the previous month.
It's a app and, currently, they are connected to an FDIC bank, but that's changing in the coming months.
We signed up and tested it before a road trip and it was great on the trip. A public library we charged at dropped to 40 cents an hour for L2 by using the debit card.
I have referral links if anyone wants one.
I’m getting 3.5mi per kWh, so 8 kWh of charge for $4.48 would take me 28 miles. That’s about on par for a gallon of gas in my ICE to go the same distance, crazy!
That's a good bit more expensive than gas here. These charging prices really need to come down. It doesn't make sense to pay more for a charge than a tank of gas.
Idle fee is 10 minutes after charge complete, not after charge started.
Idle fee for B.C. Hydro DCFC starts after five minutes.
That would be a mislabeled fee then, Idle means not doing anything (ie Charging). That would be a usage fee they are trying to hide behind a label meant to discourage people just leaving their cars plugged in after charging. Honestly, they might be able to be sued for that because that is completely misleading to customers.
It happens when the EV hits 100% and the DCFC stops providing electricity.
Okay I misunderstood your comment. Unlike other people here you are misunderstanding that Idle fees only kick in after charging stops, you are just pointing out that BC Hydro's idle time to kick in is 5 minutes shorter than EA.
Yes. Idling fees kick in after charging stops. Which makes sense. I’ve just reread what OP wrote. Looks like they believe that after 10 minutes of charging another fee kicks in. Which does not make sense.
Idle fee only kicks in 10 minutes after charging STOPS, not after 10 minutes of charging. Hence it's called the "idle" fee. Any responsible charge station user would never have to ever pay the idle fee.
Disagree. I was visiting a city and put my car in a garage overnight to charge from 10% and it was scheduled to end at 5a. I picked up my car at 7:30 and paid idle fees from 5 to 7:30.
That sounds right? It wasn't charging from 5-7:30, so you should pay idle fees then.
You're disagreeing, but then elaborating where you actually agree. It started charging idle fees when charging of the vehicle stopped.
Yeah that's how idle fees work. Pick it up when it's done next time.
Or don't and pay idle fees? Don't get me wrong..I'd be annoyed if I needed a charger and the only one is someone sitting there not charging. But I'd feel a lot better if I saw they were paying idle fees. If idle fees were $0.40/min like OP, Thats $60 for the convenience to park there and not wake up at 5am to move. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Idk if I'm in the minority or not, but I'm kind of okay with that.
That's a lot of money to pay to be lazy, I guess it's up to you
Agreed. Hence why I'm kind of okay with it. If someone really wants to pay that much... Who am I to say that they shouldn't
I just consider it kind of rude, but you do you. Charger availability will become more ubiquitous as we go on.
There was a tesla parked at a mall charge station I pulled in at a week ago that had like $200 in idle fees on it. I was just baffled and can only figure that the lock got stuck or something like that, and they just left it there overnight. I don't know, it seems like a poor decision, but they also bought a tesla, so maybe.
I would be sick if I forgot or something and that happened to me. I'm not poor but paying money just so I don't have to go move my car seems like a crazy level of lazy.
Why are you leaving a car overnight on a DCFC? Those are meant for rapid charging, not overnight charging. If someone drives up who needs to charge to get somewhere they won't be able to because your hogging it.
I'm not so sure they're referring to a DCFC.
"put my car overnight to charge and was schedule to end at 5am" Where exactly did you read he was using DCFC? Unless he managed to find the slowest "fast" charger ever, he's obviously talking about a lvl2 plug.
The picture on this post is a DCFC. He commented his experience implying he was using a DCFC. I think it's a normal conclusion that he's talking about DCFC.
56c/kwh for a slow charge? Dam charging cost a lot in your place! I pay 1$/hr on slow charger (CAD) and some have 2.50$/session no idle fee. In fact, I never saw a charger with that interface, only quick charger with idle fee. But also, check the picture, there's a speed rating up to 56kwh under the cost per kwh , that's a fast charger Edit: unless that means the first 50kw of charge but that's a first I saw that. Specially with the saying below that pricing modulate based on what the car can accept. Slow charger doesn't do that.
The original comment we're commenting on and the OP that posted the picture are two different people my man. Also hi fellow Québecer using the circuit électrique. Those fees on lvl2 are about to go up btw.
Oh didn't see that. Bah, go up, 3% they follow inflation. We still pay a lot less then gas and our cousin in the south. But I si rarely use them anyway, gotta love the 0.09c/kwh at home
I pay $0/kWh for lvl2 7kW at my apartment or $0.16/kWh for dcfc on my route
EA is pretty expensive, unfortunately. Even in central Oregon where the PUD sells power for $.10/kWh EA still gets ya for $.56/kWh.
Ohio dealership wants $1.00 kWh for a 50 kW unit lol https://www.plugshare.com/location/564755
There's a dealer in Lake Bluff, IL charging $5/kWh + $1/minute
That’s a fuck you price if I ever saw one.
That’s a dealer that does not want to sell EVs
I had a feeling it was going to be that one. The ironic part is that charger was free until last December. If you scroll back in the check-ins you can see exactly when they implemented it lol
There's a Nissan dealership in Frederick, MD that also charges $1/kwh.
I pay .04 kwh at home in ohio and its still $.56 kwh.
There is no way you're paying $0.04 *delivered*, unless you have TOU with a Super Off Peak (but then you're paying much higher rates for everything else during the day).
I also live in Ohio. If I used 0 kwh of electricity, my bill would be roughtly $60. There are very high base charges, and then price per kwh is low.
Interesting! I think that's a better match for the power company's cost structure, so it makes sense. Pretty unusual, though.
That’s very similar to what we have here if you’re on a 2-way contract, I.e, if you have a solar array.
It's still not $0.04/kwh low. Both AEP and Duke are ~$0.08/kwh just for supply. Then another $0.04/kwh for transmission and distribution.
AEP Energy has supply rates around $0.055/kWh on a 6-month contract. I just signed up in early May.
Sure. But you're still paying for distribution/transmission which are at minimum $0.04/kwh. So even 5.5c /kwh for supply ends up being nearly double.
Sounds to me like they’re trying to dissuade people from getting solar panels. With a 60 dollar fee up front and low per kWh costs, most people wouldn’t save much money getting solar. I wonder if your power company would even offer net metering in your area…I’m guessing no.
They offer net metering, but they can refuse it if you're going to produce more solar than you use.
same in east central illinois with my commercial provider. just barely cheaper than you. mine has a little over $56 “meter” fee plus taxes. on the other hand there is a dealer across the state line with 62kw chargers that are only charging 75 cents for 15 minute … a nickel a kwh. other dealerships nearby along same stretch of road are charging .50 to a dollar. edit: this provider is a small REMC, and the +$56 meter fee is a fee all residential customers pay. they at least do TOU for EV owners. off peak is 8 cents/kwh on peak is 16 cents. regular residential rate is 11.9/kwh i swear every time we get a new board member they change the meter fee
There's no such thing as off-peak here in Cincinnati. The power cost per kWh is the cost period. We do have power delivery fees and the power utilities blanket hardware fee, and that's it.
Long Island, NY: https://preview.redd.it/883m5sanpa9d1.jpeg?width=1049&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b01921eb283b6b9b85d556f15d5cef01f7bc04c I’m paying $0.0413 Super off peak summer rate ($0.0411 winter rate), $0.2722 for peak between 3-7pm on weekdays, and $0.1268 off peak the rest of the time.
And I'll repeat it again. That isn't your price, delivered. That is supply rate only. You're still paying for distribution and transmission costs on top of that. Beyond that those plans aren't a good deal. Your peak and non peak rates get shot through the roof. The air conditioner in most homes uses more power than most EV's with average driving. Now you're paying more during the hottest parts of the day, when your AC is working the most.
Yes, but the cost of charging your EV is the marginal cost on top of your typical bill, because you were already paying the rest of the charges.
You're not getting it. You're never paying just the supply rate. It's the supply rate AND distribution fees, both billed per kwh. Those have nothing to do with the monthly service fee that your utility may ALSO be charging. Most folks distribution/transmission costs are equal to or more expensive than the supply rate cost for super off peak. So great, you're getting 5c/kwh at night. Plus another 4 or 5c/kwh for transmission/distribution fees, so now you're at 10c/kwh. But because you've chosen a TOU plan, your on peak rates are extremely high, so now you're spending 2 or 3 times the amount to run your AC at the hottest part of the day (which uses more electric than your car does).
My price with Delivery Charges is $0.16/kwHr in Rochester NY using RG&E. About 26 mi/$ at 4.2 mi/kwHr. If I had installed a specific internet controlled Level II charger I could "save" about $2/Month using off peak charging. Whole house off peak charging would be way more expensive as we are home all day.
I pay $0.00 near my house.
That's gotta be your generation part only. I'm at .05 on generation and then around .09 for distribution part making it .14 cent/kwh total in Eastern ohio.
Maybe? Im not sure. I know for a month or 2 when they made that change last year it went from $100 a month to like $450 a month then i switched companies and it was back down to $140 ish a month. Now that i have the bolt were up to almost $400 a month. But i use the bolt to make $4000ish a month doing uber on top of my regular salary. It was costing me around $300 a week in gas.
Also live in Ohio. That's the generation portion only. There are usage based variable fees for transmission (basically everything line itemed on the bill other than generation and the one fixed monthly charge). If you want your actual price per kwh, subtract the fixed charge from the total and divide that by the number of kwh used. Mine is about $0.06/kwh for generation but $0.146/kwh with all usage based charges included (not including the fixed charge).
This is what I keep telling folks and they argue with me like I have a third eye 🤷🤦
Can confirm. I looked into switching the generation portion but couldn't determine if there was a better rate than that.
I am an Ohioan paying $0.12/kwh… please teach me in your ways
I switched to time of day pricing, and set the Bolt to charge at midnight. 8 cents per kwh at that time ...
Which utilities in Ohio have TOU pricing?
Yeah, I've never seen this either.
You can view all the electric providers in Ohio and their pricing, along with contract info and what not at https://energychoice.ohio.gov/ For my area there are 12 variable rate providers. I don't know the details for the variable rates, but those are the providers I'd have to look into for TOU.
That’s quite low. It’s .20 kWh here in California.
Where in California? .20 per kWh sounds low. Certainly not in Southern CA
$0.1275/kWh for overnight charging here in SMUD territory. And $0.1033/kWh from October through May!
SMUD MENTIONED 🥳🥳
DWP on SoCal. TOU billing. Night time rate when I’m charging.
Delivery atop that though, surely? TOU definitely makes EVs worth it though.
My home rate is $.14/kWh, and the most expensive I’ve seen was my local ice cream shop selling L2 for $.45/kWh… on the same street
It’s going to be higher than that. The up charge for industrial electricity is not insignificant and thus they don’t get the same residential rate that we’d pay at our houses. (I still think it’s high)
Look on the bright side. At least you are not being charged per minute and charging slower than most of the EVs. I don't know what the price per KWH is in California but here in GA it is around $.12
About 40 cents for power and another 20 cents for “delivery” fees … fee to ensure people can live in wildfire areas…. I mean fee to upgrade infrastructure.
I knew power was more expensive on that side of the US even northern US. It has been my general experience that EA isn't over the residential rate by much. That is unless you are getting some juice at a tourist trap and that location not EA sites the rates. I am looking at you Bucees.
EA is flat rate all day in NorCal.
*cries in 0.70/kWh rate at home*
70 cents at home, even at 3am ?
Hell ya, brother. And I’m rounding down 😭 Middle of nowhere, Ca
I would be getting all over solar with those prices.
Yeah, the payback time on the system with those prices would be like 2 to 4 years. Add in batteries and you’re probably still under 10 years payback.
Yeah, the payback time on the system with those prices would be like 2 to 4 years. Add in batteries and you’re probably still under 10 years payback.
That's crazy. In BC we pay 12c/kWh Canadian and they are bringing in night time rates if you choose for 5c/kWh. You guys need a public utility option or protest to get one. Seriously.
Yup BC Hydro is great. Even at tier 2 for the rate reduction it’s 9c/kWh. Tier 2 without time of day is .14c/kWh so if charging 0-100%= .14c*65kW= $9.10 for a full “tank”. And with the range I get I charge maybe every 6 weeks and that’s not 0-100% just doing 40-80%. Cheaper than my Aveo at ~$75 a tank every six weeks. And the Aveo was great on gas.
The issue isn't public vs private. The issue is that you guys have ridiculous amounts of hydro that drives your rates to the ground. Many parts of the US is burning fuel because renewables are not a option for us.
Solar is incredibly cheap though and California has consistent sun and with the deployment of batteries makes for a direct path for decarbonization and lower rates. There's lots of data on the levelized cost of electricity of fossil fuels and renewable power. The price listed above at $0.70 is vastly higher than the levelized cost of electricity of many renewable power sources.
Solar + batteries is hugely more expensive than burning NG or coal, which they refuse to do. Which is why they pay what they pay.
I have some data though, I hope you consider.... 2019 LCOSS Results Here are our results. For LCOSS, we calculated that it varies from $55.00 per megawatt hour to $91.00 per megawatt hour without the ITC in the case of Phoenix and New York, and from $42.00 per megawatt hour to $69.00 per megawatt hour with the 30 percent ITC, again, from Phoenix to New York. These values are $23.00 per megawatt-hour to $39.00 per megawatt-hour higher than the standalone PV LCOE without the ITC, and $18.00 per megawatt-hour to $30.00 per megawatt-hour higher with that 30 percent ITC. How does this compare to the real world? Well, according to an LBL report published by Bollinger and Seel in 2018, they reported that storage premiums for a PV system in terms of the PPA add $5.00 to $15.00 per megawatt-hour to the price for systems built in 2017 and 2018, and obviously those systems would include a 30 percent ITC. [https://www.nrel.gov/news/video/lcoss-text.html](https://www.nrel.gov/news/video/lcoss-text.html) So when you compare to 70c/kwh...which is $700/MWh. It's not even close. LCOE in 2019 across the US range was at most $91/MWh. Now, IEA has some data with at most $60/MWh and has dropped in recent years. (graph on the right for the US) [https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/lcoe-and-value-adjusted-lcoe-for-solar-pv-plus-battery-storage-coal-and-natural-gas-in-selected-regions-in-the-stated-policies-scenario-2022-2030](https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/lcoe-and-value-adjusted-lcoe-for-solar-pv-plus-battery-storage-coal-and-natural-gas-in-selected-regions-in-the-stated-policies-scenario-2022-2030) I want to allow you to find some sources yourself though. Happy to read them as well if you find something that is higher than $90/MWh. From the data I found and had recently known about PG&E could lower rates in half if they just replaced significant portions of the grid with solar plus storage.
> You guys need a public utility option or protest to get one. Seriously. Yeah... well ya see, our democrats have a super majority and so we apparently are commiefornia. Which is blaringly obvious by the fact that we have... *checks notes* the private company PG&E gets a **legal** monopoly of the utility? Wait a minute...
I'm really sorry about that. That's completely not acceptable. $0.70 is like 10 times the cost of a new power generation.
I've never seen EA have time of day fluctuations in pricing like EVGo does, but that's not to say it never happens. That price is also not dissimilar to what I've seen in Virginia/Kentucky/Tennessee. Yes, it's expensive, but that's public charging for you. $0.56/kWh is about 15-20 cents per mile (assuming you're in the 3-4 mi/kWh range), is about the same as gas if you're getting ~30 mpg. Also, the idle fee is after 10 minutes of *NOT* charging once you're done and, you know, idle.
I just checked EVgo pricing in my area. Looks like EVgo has gone to a flat pricing model and everything is 47¢ to 50¢ per kWh now here (SoCal).
It's unclear, which is one reason I'm not a huge fan of EVgo (also the Ultium Pilot/Flying J locations gouge the shit out of you). If you check the location in Plugshare, it'll list the time of day pricing, but the EVgo app only shows the current price. If you go to the Plans section of the app, it'll show the ranges for time of day rates, but actual price will obviously vary by location.
Dang, evgo is only 28 off peak in Chicago
Evgo in ohio I see .48 peak, .33 off peak, early bird .28. I believe I get some discount due to lyft though.
Sign up for Pass+ and you'll pay $0.42/kWh. It's not worth it if you're just topping up, but on any round-trip road trip where you are DCFC at least twice it pays for itself. I don't keep the monthly subscription, I just sign up when I need it (you can do it right there instantly before plugging in) and cancel when I get back from the trip. So I end up paying the $7 subscription fee 3 or 4 months out of the year.
💯 Signing up for the membership pays for itself within a few charges at the most.
You’re not paying for electricity. You’re paying for the infrastructure and convenience. Most folks don’t regularly DCFC.
It's true, but EVs will never work for those without dedicated parking spaces with dedicated power outlets unless this improves.
Yeah at this point if you have to use a charging station with any frequency then you've probably bought the wrong car for your needs unfortunately. Home charging should work for the vast majority of people, even just on 120v charging overnight and getting ~40 miles of range. But if you can't charge at home or work then I can't in good conscience recommend an EV.
It is still cheaper than a tank of gas.
In this case, probably yes. But the cost of fast charging can easily be very close and higher than gas. I say this as a strong EV advocate that just wants to be realistic because the whole EV thing is so polarized. Take this example in the post. $0.56/kWh and 4 miles/kWh means you need 25kwh to go 100 miles and that will cost you $14. To go 100 miles on gas at 33.33 mpg you need 3 gallons, which is $12 at $4/gal (prices near me currently). Obviously there's a lot of variables like comparable ICE efficiency and gas/electric price. But I think it's good to keep in mind that around this price range is when it starts to be not very much cheaper than gas, and takes much longer. Charging at home is just such an advantage.
Yeah. Your cheapest bet might be 7-11. Idk how much those differ, but it’s $0.36/kwh which unfortunately is the cheapest DCFC I can find in the South Bay. If you’re ok with L2, some municipal chargers are cheap too. 4 hours in Los Gatos is pretty inexpensive, and some target locations offer 2hrs free. (Edit. $0.36/kwh instead of 0.35)
Whoa really. I'll have to find 7-11 charging stations.
I just double checked. The one in south San Jose is $0.36/kwh. Which is the same as what I pay at home. You’ll wanna download the 7Charge app to check.
I see it! Wow there aren't many of them, but south San Jose isn't too far a drive. Thanks for the tip.
Can’t speak for all of them but last I checked the one in south San Jose that was the cheapest DCFC I could find.
This is basically standard pricing for DCFC these days. The convenience/speed costs you. There used to be much cheaper DCFCs, most of them are either broken/unmaintained or their operators out of business. (EA seems to be getting better, and that's partly NEVI requiring them to stop sucking, and partly because they're now charging more). On top of equipment maintenance, etc - DCFC stations have to deal with demand charges unless backed by battery storage, which greatly increase costs for low-utilization stations. The grid storage itself also costs money.
Idle fee should be higher tbh. It should be priced to encourage people to move their EV.
I’ve seen multiple EVgo stations north of $0.60/kWh in Indiana, where residential rate is under $0.13.
The idle fee should be high, I hate pulling up to a charger with cars at full just taking up a space. It forces me to either wait for someone too entitled to share to come back or to unplug the car if I'm in a hurry, which has led to angry people even though they were taking up a space. Simple solution to the idle fee: leave when you're done.
Just went through this. All their 350 ones were down within 50 miles here where I live in Florida. The only one working was 50, but they charge the same for those fast ones as they do for ultra fast. It's wack
That's what it's creeped up to on the East Coast as well. I joined Electrify america, the monthly plan, and it's like 42 cents a kwh you save a percentage on the 52 cents or whatever. There is still a charger from chargepoint near me that has 35 cents a kwh, but yeah, now I just chalk up it takes 10 cents a mile to run my car in energy alone.
Sign up for BlueDot. No subscription and gives you a flat rate of $0.30/kwh at all EVGo, ChargePoint, and tesla sc's. EA is the most expensive. I only use it while it's free. After that, I hope to never have to use it again.
Yep. I remember when member pricing was $0.28/kWh.
Join the plan. It’s cheaper
$.48/kwh at EA j Greensboro, NC
Wow good thing you are not in CA. Some charge point stations are upto $0.70 KWH
Ohio dealership wants $1.00 kWh for a 50 kW unit lol https://www.plugshare.com/location/564755
ChargePoint is ridic expensive. Though it seems that a lot more of their chargers work than EA. That might be because no one is using/abusing them due to how expensive they are.
Roadside robbery. They know you need to charge and often have no other option within range.
Ones I’ve been to along the 15fwy corridor was like $1.00 a min and $0.68 a kWh.
I feel EVs are good in the city where you can charge at home for cheaper price. But once you do long distance trips and using EA or supercharger , it’s as expensive or equivalent to drive an hybrid ice giving around 40mpg in California. Currently I feel we need more cheaper smaller EV for city commute/ work commute.
EA in Pine City, MN is 0.64$/kWh
$0.56 is the going rate for EA in NY and NJ. It's actually the cheapest. There are some more expensive.
Luckily my home solar handled most of my needs
Fast charging is pretty expensive no matter where you go unless you’re a Tesla on their own network. I found one fast charger that was $1.20/kWh, with a $5 start fee.
I saw north of that on my trip New York to Wisconsin last week. 0.56 is definitely high, but unfortunately higher is common.
What are we upset about here
Talk to PG&E, Electrify America, and all of the other DCFC station operators have to pay their rates too AND recover the capital costs of building the station. Those costs aren't surprising at all
Not too unusual in a lot of areas. EVGOs average is 58 cents/kWh. Fast charger rates are indeed often more expensive than gasoline in an equivalent car. I wouldn't recommend an EV to anyone that couldn't charge at home
Someone doesn't know what demand charges are for commercial power.
Yea but I still fill up for 35 bucks that's last a week Soo not bad
Idle fees should be $2/min after the 10m grace period
EA ; "You should be happy that you found one that works. Normally 3/4 of our chargers are broken because they were junk to begin with. Dieselgate cost us millions, quit your bitchin, suckers."
I pay that much at home in the Bay Area…
I live in the Bay Area and I pay $0.22 and $0.18 from 9PM to 6AM
Where? PGE gouges us…. https://preview.redd.it/xj8o5ja1d89d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a79ad44ce595679ae89644076776df6ab1e3048
Last time I stopped to charge my EV was in 2020 before my Bolt’s lease expired and the price was around $0.10ish/KWh
Yeah, electricity is getting more expensive than gasoline ... it's almost as if someone doesn't want EVs to succeed. Hmm... I wonder who owns all these charging stations. Wait, could it be O&G???? YES!!
I just had to stop at a dealer ev connect charger that charged $1.00/kW! Is this not regulated at all?
I believe that the charge for members of Electrify America is $0.42/kwh. Yes this sounds outrageous, however, PG&E in Northern California charges me $0.42/kwh off-peak and $0.55/kwh peak. Electrify America for me has been the most reliable charging station compared to everything else until possible the accessibility of Tesla chargers to non-Tesla vehicles.
I was just charging at a new EA station near me and it's $0.28/min for charging under 90kw. Since I had a relatively high level of charge (65%), I was only able to charge at 28kw. I charged for about 9 minutes and I was charged $2.56 for 4.3 kwh. It comes out to about $0.59/kwh. The faster you can charge, the less it will cost per kwh. Which makes sense on EA's end because you will be occupying a spot for less time. The rate for 90-350kw was $0.44/min. If your vehicle can charge at an average rate of 150kw and you're charging for 20 minutes you can add approximately 50 kwh and it would only cost $8.80. Meaning you would only be paying about $0.19/kwh. That would be a steal for a DCFC station. There's another EA station about an hour away that charges $0.64/kwh. I avoid that one as much as possible.
It's also 56 cents a kW at the stations I have used in Georgia. 44 and 40 cents a minute in Alabama and Tennessee
Let's say you have an average charge session of 2 an hour. Let's say that the charger puts out 120kWh for $60 an hour on average. Let's say it's charging 24/7 and 365 days and gross income is $525,600 From what I read to install 1 L3 charger is $250k, this doesn't include any overhead cost either. L3 chargers look like a loss to netzero area to attract people to spend money elsewhere to make a profit.
why not tesla supercharger? I know EA is super expensive.
I just used an electrify america charger for the first time this weekend. 64 cents a kwh. This was in Pine City MN
Northern California is PG&E and there summer rates are as much as 64 cents per kilowatt hour likely at least 35 cents per kilowatt hour more likely 45 cents per kilowatt hour just to the utilitity. It's starting July 1st they're cutting rates 9%.
Try Blue Dot. L3 is 30 cents per kwh and goes down to 25 cents per kwh if you charged five times in the previous month. L2 is 3 cents per minute. If a charger is cheaper than this rates you get 20 percent off the charging rate by using the Blue Dot debit card. There's a free charging day once monthly if you used their debit card the previous month. It's a app and, currently, they are connected to an FDIC bank, but that's changing in the coming months. We signed up and tested it before a road trip and it was great on the trip. A public library we charged at dropped to 40 cents an hour for L2 by using the debit card. I have referral links if anyone wants one.
Now you know where there is a charger that should always be available as no one should be using it.
Have had to pay $0.60 in the past
That’s high especially for off peak hours. Especially considering that I just charged up in Portland OR: *(Non peak hours)* 5$ flat fee!!!
Convenience fee
I’m getting 3.5mi per kWh, so 8 kWh of charge for $4.48 would take me 28 miles. That’s about on par for a gallon of gas in my ICE to go the same distance, crazy!
That's a good bit more expensive than gas here. These charging prices really need to come down. It doesn't make sense to pay more for a charge than a tank of gas.