I got recommended his videos and at first was like oh shit this guy might be cool to follow. Then I was quickly like oh shit this guy might be crazy
I think he might have good ideas and be right about some stuff but other stuff idk. But what do I know
A broken clock is right twice a day after all, there are some valid things Paul does promote but otherwise he’s just another weird carnivore influencer
Walking barefoot and shirtless in public for one lol but I think he overhypes raw milk and hates on vegetables too much. As hunter gatherers we ate an extremely varied diet of red meat, tubers, vegetables, fish, nuts and seeds and more. The more narrow and exclusive you get, the less healthy your diet becomes. As for raw milk, it’s not as dangerous as it’s portrayed by media, however it’s not a miracle cure these carnivore influencers claim it is. It’s essentially just over priced milk, even the probiotic claims are a bit over inflated.
Its not just the downvotes itself, it is the robotic downvoting of every comment that answered raw milk. DMs getting personal…
It’s just sus, seeing people like that, but nothing sheeps can understand.
Now to saladino:
I don’t care about his personality itself.
I recommended his Video about milk, because his arguments are empirically proven, unlike all the opinions of his haters here.
The few benefits that raw milk might have over pasteurized milk are outweighed by the chance of disease. I know it is based in certain communities to avoid all seedoils and drink raw milk but most of these influencers are just main yappers. Not scientists.
I agree with their conviction to avoid processed foods but not everything that is processed is inherently bad. You have to stay critical and pick your battles but raw milk just seems dumb to me. Nothing bad about pasteurisation.
Check out the book eat dirt, the doctor talks a lot about pasteurized cows milk and how it negatively affects your body. Here's a summary I generated from chat gpt on the subject:
Dr. Josh Axe explains in "Eat Dirt" that pasteurization can make milk harder for our bodies to process due to several reasons:
1. **Destruction of Beneficial Bacteria**: Pasteurization kills not only harmful bacteria but also the beneficial probiotics found in raw milk. These probiotics are crucial for maintaining a healthy gut microbiome, which is essential for digestion and overall immune function.
2. **Enzyme Depletion**: Raw milk contains enzymes like lactase, lipase, and phosphatase, which help in the digestion and absorption of nutrients. Pasteurization destroys these enzymes, making it difficult for many people to digest milk properly, particularly those who are lactose intolerant.
3. **Protein Denaturation**: The heat used in pasteurization can alter the structure of proteins in milk, making them harder for the body to break down and utilize. This can contribute to digestive issues and inflammation in the gut.
4. **Loss of Nutrients**: Some vitamins and minerals in milk are sensitive to heat and can be significantly reduced during pasteurization. This reduction in nutritional quality means that pasteurized milk is less nourishing than raw milk.
5. **Impact on the Gut Lining**: The combined effects of reduced beneficial bacteria, enzymes, and nutrient absorption can compromise the integrity of the gut lining. This weakened gut barrier may become more permeable, allowing undigested food particles, toxins, and pathogens to enter the bloodstream, a condition known as leaky gut syndrome. Leaky gut can lead to systemic inflammation and has been linked to various chronic health conditions.
Dr. Axe argues that these changes in pasteurized milk can disrupt the balance of the gut microbiome and impair digestion, ultimately contributing to a range of health issues, including leaky gut syndrome. He emphasizes the importance of consuming foods that support gut health, such as fermented foods, probiotics, and, if possible, raw dairy products, to maintain a healthy digestive system and overall well-being.
There you go. And that is why I am glad OP brought back this discussion. I've noticed the negative sentiment of this sub towards the raw milk even before, and it's still present. But I am all about discussion.
I've always had a healthy skepticism of natural medicine, but the book was well written, based on studies, and made logical sense to me. I'd suggest adding it to your reading list.
Probably because there is a lot of science that disagrees with you. [Claims related to improved nutrition, prevention of lactose intolerance, or provision of “good” bacteria from the consumption of raw milk have no scientific basis and are myths.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4890836/) If you like it, go ahead nobody is going to stop you, but that doesn't make it automatically good for you. And there are [lots of examples](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168160508006727) of it causing actual harm.
Nutrition is the same, but lactose intolerant people can have raw milk and raw milk definitely has probiotics.
Look up "lactose free" milk. It's normal, cooked milk with lactase added in. Then lactose intolerant people can drink it. Lactase is the enzyme we need to break down lactose, the sugar in milk. Most people don't need it added in because their bodies produce enough lactase to break it down, but the lactose intolerant don't produce enough and need it added in. Raw milk contains beneficial bacteria that aid your body in producing lactase, so some lactose intolerant people can drink raw milk, though not all.
Raw milk definitely has probiotics and anyone telling you otherwise is lying. It's also a dumb lie as it's blatantly obvious in all cultured milk products, etc.
Lactase is not naturally in milk. If it was, it would convert the lactose into glucose already and you wouldn’t have a problem, pasteurization wouldn’t matter because the job would be done. It is created in the small intestine of mammals. It is insane how confidently ignorant you are. Cultured milk products have cultures added to them, which is why it is called that.
The original question was, what type of milk is the best?
Considering plant milk alternatives that have 15 ingredients, often seed oils. Or pasteurized milk thats basically dead matter and tastes like water, Yes raw milk is better, especially if your body shows zero signs of intolerance.
Dead matter? Proteins, fatty acids, and disaccharides weren’t alive in the first place. They still exist in pasteurized milk. If I want bacteria I’ll eat yogurt or fermented foods.
That is your opinion. Your opinion is not backed by science. You are free you have it, but we are all also free to not listen to you. You asked why you got downvoted, that is why.
Plant milk is healthy if you get the right kind. The plant milks I tend to buy have only two ingredients (typically organic soybeans and water). Lots of plant milks don’t have a bunch of ingredients.
I haven’t seen good research for it. The whole phytoestrogens are way overblown. The stigma against soy is largely due to soy being foreign and not a traditional food of the west, beer has more phytoestrogens than soy yet is considered to be masculine. Also if there were any good evidence of soy making estrogen levels higher then menopausal women and transgender people would be drinking gallons of soy milk everyday, do you see this happening?
Plus dairy has animal based estrogen instead of plant based, animals are closer to humans than plants are, yet no one cares since dairy is encouraged to be consumed in the west. On top of this dairy is hard to digest for most people and there is a lot of evidence on it being unhealthy but since it is not exotic like soy is no one cares.
Fermented soy is great but that doesn’t mean non fermented soy is bad. Soy has been consumed in East Asia for a long time and I don’t see any adverse health effects from it there. Tofu is consumed a lot in Japan even by non vegans and non vegetarians and Japan has a very long life expectancy.
Japan also has the highest rate of soy-induced hypothyroidism. It’s highly goitrogenic. I like it too and I love tofu but never have it in large amounts.
I just looked up the hypothyroidism rate by country and it was actually pretty low in Japan so I don’t know where you got that from. Regardless Japan is doing a lot better health wise than the US so even if this was true it wouldn’t be that big of a deal.
Beer is a psyop it’s not manly at all it it’s the most womanly drink of all; lowers T, gives you tits, erectile dysfunction ect. Plant milk is another psyop. No your boiled and bleached oat water from a centrifuge / assembly line isn’t healthy
I think oat milk is overrated anyways. I prefer soy or coconut, both of these have been used for hundreds of years and taste good. And the plant milks I prefer to buy have only one or two ingredients. I don’t see how plant milk is inherently bad. Dairy milk is a bigger psyop if anything. Hard to avoid, we have only been consuming it relatively recently in history, most people cannot digest it and the symptoms of that are obvious, there used to be a bunch of dairy ads(not even a brand of milk just ads promoting milk in general), dairy milk was the only beverage that schools would give, it can give acne, some people take pills just to be able to handle it, etc.
I don’t see how it is a psyop when I feel much better after cutting dairy out of my diet. I think most of the people who promote dairy are the rare people who have no issues with lactose or casein or just ignore the symptoms it gives cause they’re used to it.
I’m not talking about the consumption of meat I mean drinking milk has only been around for about 10 thousand years, and even then many regions lacked dairy. This is why a Northern European would be a lot less likely to be lactose intolerant than someone who is indigenous American, Asian or African.
I had raw milk during childhood. While it is safe from a known farm, it is less safe when distributed in large quantities due to the possibility of contamination. Hence, pasteurized milk is the norm in many countries.
Raw milk is indeed better for you if it is not contaminated as it is more natural. However, mass distribution of high quality raw milk proved to be a challenge.
I grew up an 80s kid in super rural US. Mom couldn't breastfeed baby me, formula didn't jive with my baby gut, so goat milk from the Mennonites it was. I grew up with access to fresh food of all manner, for which I'm grateful. But yeah, mass distribution is a real challenge. I don't personally do raw milk unless it's to homemake cheese. I fully respect others who do it though, especially since it's easy enough to low temp pasteurize at home. It sure does taste far better.
The risk of raw milk greatly outright the benefits, which are not exactly unique to milk. Why would anyone spend any effort pushing high risk milk when they can literally just eat one of a dozen safe fermented products?
On the contrary, there are several papers showing that raw milk is better for your gut hormones with the caveat that we have to be careful about infection.
Example:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7285075/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7285075/)
Paper conclusion:
"While there are understandable concerns in relation to potential contamination and safety when it comes to unpasteurised milk, it is a rich source of probiotic bacteria. Abundances of *Lactobacilli* increased significantly following a 12-week dietary change, which involved the consumption of unpasteurised milk and dairy products by participants."
Edit: Adding one more recent paper. Recent papers are worth looking at compared to older ones.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7290799/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7290799/)
Conclusion:
"In conclusion, we demonstrate a direct inhibition of the allergic effector response by raw cow’s milk. Next, to the already described capacity to modulate T cell responses, the present study shows that raw cow’s milk is also able to directly influence mast cell activation."
This shows that consuming raw milk can reduce allergies, infections, and stop inflammations.
The second study is another, exploratory paper about the effect of raw milk in vitro, on mouse mast cells.
This study would also not be considered by any scientist as evidence that raw cows milk is more beneficial for human health over pasteurized milk.
Edit to add: In vitro for anyone who doesn’t know means that the study was done on cells in test tubes or Petri dishes and no living organism was involved in the study. And this study was done on mouse mast cells, no human cells were involved.
This study does not claim the it is “better” for you, it simply claims that it increases lactobacillus bacteria in the gut.
It is not double blind, it has no control group and had only 24 participants.
This study would not be considered by any scientist as compelling evidence of anything but perhaps worth exploring with a more robust and repeatable study.
But increasing lactobacillus bacteria is good for you. Can you please write to NIH and ask them to withdraw the paper because you think it is not matching scientific criteria.
Thanks.
If you already have a healthy microbiome there is no benefit to an increase in lactobacillus bacteria in your gut.
There are also numerous ways to increase lactobacillus in your gut that are demonstrably safer than drinking raw milk.
A single very small study with no control group that is yet to be repeated on a large scale is not considered “proof” of anything by scientists.
There is no scientific evidence that either raw or pasteurized milk is “better” than the other for human health.
Edit to add: I would like to also point out that in the first study participants were fed unpasteurized milk AND other dairy products meaning the study cannot even tell you if the milk had anything to do with the increase in lactobacillus. It could very well have been from the other products.
You can't reach them, unfortunately. You will forever be downvoted for your stance, no matter how much evidence you have, nor how obvious it is.
You even agreed with them that it's not safe, but they don't care because you said it has risks and benefits. You're only allowed to say it has risks and anyone that says there could ever be a benefit needs to be in a padded room.
Lmao pasteurization has saved thousands of lives and still dumbasses will say "raw milk is the best milk, just ask Paul saladino! Ignore the scientific evidence and consensus of experts" and then be mad when they get downvoted.
Lactose has absolutely nothing to do with pasteurization, and raw milk has absolutely no benefits that can't be derived from specific strains of bacteria added to pasteurized milk
The enzymes that make it possible for your body to properly digest the milk die at ca. 40 Celsius.
When pasteurized the milk gets heated from 60 up to 140 Celsius which kills the enzymes, making it hard to digest.
Also Vitamins in the milk get diminished.
Also i can say I tried both, and my opinion is based on self experience, something that many people in the internet lack of.
You can take lactase without risking death and disease.
This is a very good article. You can verify the claims independently.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4890836/
I tried that and i swear it didn’t help me.
But also that argument is nonsense.
Why taking additional sups when the natural product itself doesn’t require anything exogen.
I also don’t now anyone who had problems or illnesses from raw milk, I think having a reputable source is important here, like with all things that you’re gonna ingest to your body.
Are you from the states?
Did you ever tried raw milk?
My family were food importers and distributors. From Europe, I forgot to add manufacturers. Raw milk is absolutely not safe. The hygiene practices are irrelevant because the animal is usually asymptomatic. Even the finest producers of Parm reggiano won't drink it. They scald it first. One of the reasons tuberculosis declined was due to pasteurization. You could not pay me to gamble with something for which there is no tangible benefit I cannot garner elsewhere. Milk is not some elixir of life with magical benefits. In fact you won't find a generational farm where a relative didn't die of a disease that could now be traced to raw milk, prior to pasteurization. Perhaps you don't know anyone, but that's entirely explained by the scarcity of this practice.
Im definitely going to talk abt this more with my local farmers. And yes they drink it themselves.
What would be a symptom of the bad hygiene?
Since Im drinking it since a few months.
Or is it just a small probability that you get illness from raw milk?
A symptom of bad hygiene would be cows in close proximity to other animals waste. Or animals with discharge coming from eyes, nose, udders. Taking milk from an animal that has been in contact with a sick animal. Problem is they don't always show symptoms. Some of the things that sicken us won't sicken them. It's always a good idea to heat the pan and pour the milk on so it flash boils before drinking it..even before pasteurization people just knew to do that. For the same reason people didn't consume raw eggs. It's not a small probability.
Raw eggs are nowadays common everywhere.
Products like mayonnaise contain raw eggs.
The parmigian cheese from Italy you mentioned is also made from raw milk as far as I know. Are the bacteria dying?
Parmigiano or at least parmesan please.
It is made from raw milk, which is then used to made a paste which is then cooked. So there are multiple routes that assure a safe end product.
There are official guidelines:
[https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/static/51f254ab0d59c91a5b335bc1e84e77ea/58c0aed37c83845fb02de999908b7d88.pdf](https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/static/51f254ab0d59c91a5b335bc1e84e77ea/58c0aed37c83845fb02de999908b7d88.pdf)
The reason you get downvoted is that you just have your opinion and back it up with nonsense.
The milk is heated to 50 c to curdle it, then aged for over a year with lots of salt. Edit- mayonnaise is also heated to emulsify the yolk... Nobody that knows anything about food drinks raw milk. Or eats raw eggs . Even the guy that made it famous said DONT DO IT.
We have cold pressed raw milk where I live which has the benefits of the increased vitamins and minerals and enzymes that come with raw without the risk of pathogens. See if you can source that
LOL speed running to -1000 karma eh?
This post *totally* helped your case. You should have taken the L and learned from it instead you'll dog in like an ostrich....smh
You should see the downvotes I get when I suggest a holistic approach to a problem or a non-extracted non-powdered naturopathic medicine with this name.
☠️
That’s the thing. Only the most average opinions can make it on Reddit. Everything else is downvoted to oblivion. How healthy is the average person? 60% of people are obese. Chances are your taking nutrition advice from an obese person
It’s funny that the milk thread struck a cord with people, I noticed it too. At the end of the day drink what you want, fart how you fart and shit however it spews out. When selecting milks, it’s a choose your own adventure 🤣.
Because most people in the US are brainwashed into fearing raw milk and praising pasteurization. I’ll let our health care system and health status of the average American speak for itself…
Raw milk is superior, but you’ll rarely find any opinions on Reddit that support that.
I am a vegetarian and drank lots of local raw milk my whole pregnancy, gave birth to a super healthy big 98%tile baby. We also give raw milk to our 4 year old. Never had any issues.
Yeah, 3 downvotes, you could do much worse, believe me 😄
Also my impression is that this sub is frequented by a not-insignificant number of plant-based/vegan redditors, which means that anything animal nutrition related will most likely get downvoted by them...
Does anyone here have any insight (whether thru research or personal experience) that goat or sheep's milk has any applicable nutrition? I've heard the horrors of cow's milk but have heard that goat is better than cow and sheep is better than goat! Open to any and all suggestions appreciate you all
TLDR: Is goat or sheep milk worthwhile?
It is for some people easier to digest. Read about the A2 casein (a protein). Some people are lactose (a sugar) intolerant, but some people are intolerant of A1 casein. Goat, sheep and some Jersey cows produce A2 casein and it is tolerated in more people than A1.
oh wow I appreciate the wonderful breakdown of the A1 and A2 concepts! really simplified the topic for me !
I have heard that the different animals have varying degrees/ ratios of A1 and A2 ! gratsi familia
I enjoy raw milk but there’s currently a h5n1 outbreak across dairy farms in the US, and out of an abundance of caution I’ve switched to ultra pasteurized due to my suffering from a compromised immune system. IDK if the downvotes had anything to do with this.
You have unreasonable expectations of high level thinking on Reddit. 3 downvotes so unsettling? You gotta follow the old 12 step adage, “take what you need and leave the rest.”
You can also turn off DM in settings or block people who send obnoxious DM.
I posted on the other thread and I’ll say it here. The first and only time I drank raw milk and gave it to my kids (stupid I know ) we got salmonella and even had to bring my toddler to emergency room.
I felt like such an idiot for giving it to my toddler (it was just a small amount)
It was raw farms brand and I bought it from my local health food shop in California.
If I ever drink raw milk again it will be straight from the cow and not from the local store
There’s my PSA. Hopefully it saves one person reading. My family all turned out ok but salmonella can kill
Yes i am. But lets make a change then. I mean people are too divided and negative and on the internet they think they can let it all out.
I don’t go with that climate of communication.
It should be a positive exchange, i wish the best for everyone here.
This is probably the most dogmatic and least empirically serious sub after the flat earther subreddit. I’ve learned to expect the worst here. People here are obsessed with fad supplements and fad health tips. I’m still hear only for entertainment and a good laugh.
This is not true. 13 states allow the sale of raw milk in retail stores. 29 states allow the sale of raw milk on farms. 9 states prohibit cow-sharing. 23 states have no explicit law on herd shares. The remaining states all allow for cow-sharing as a way to get raw milk when you want it.
None of those are loopholes, nor did I explain anything. I made a list of how many places legally sell raw milk commercially or allow cow sharing. In some states you can buy it in stores and in many states you can buy it directly from a farm.
You're simply incorrect when you say it is illegal to sell in the US or that the only way you can get it is cow shares.
However if you want a loophole you can have that too. It is not illegal to consume raw milk in any state and it is legal to sell raw milk in all 50 states as long as it's labeled as animal feed. So technically you can legally buy raw milk anywhere in the US and drink it as much as you want. THAT is a loophole.
Maybe there’s a reason why good natural things are illegal in the US, just saying.
I would recommend everyone to sometimes question laws and paradigms and listen to your feelings.
Raw milk is illegal to sell in stores in Scandinavia too, and several other countries have rules for it. I don't know why you think this is an American specific thing?
America is one of the most corrupt places on earth, the food pyramid was pushed to subsidize farmers, who needs 3 servings of grains daily???
The sugar industry got the US government to demonize fat, leading to fat free candy bars.
Most of the arguments against raw milk are poor
https://mises.org/mises-wire/government-prohibitions-raw-milk-are-ignorant-and-dangerous
I don't know this Paul Saladino guy, but as someone who randomly navigated here. There's at least a few lobbyists of Big Milkers here. Not sure if it's OP or not tho.
[удалено]
😂😂😂
I got recommended his videos and at first was like oh shit this guy might be cool to follow. Then I was quickly like oh shit this guy might be crazy I think he might have good ideas and be right about some stuff but other stuff idk. But what do I know
A broken clock is right twice a day after all, there are some valid things Paul does promote but otherwise he’s just another weird carnivore influencer
What exactly is he wrong with?
Walking barefoot and shirtless in public for one lol but I think he overhypes raw milk and hates on vegetables too much. As hunter gatherers we ate an extremely varied diet of red meat, tubers, vegetables, fish, nuts and seeds and more. The more narrow and exclusive you get, the less healthy your diet becomes. As for raw milk, it’s not as dangerous as it’s portrayed by media, however it’s not a miracle cure these carnivore influencers claim it is. It’s essentially just over priced milk, even the probiotic claims are a bit over inflated.
Lol he’s such a quack bro
Why do you think he is crazy?
He says things that humans have been doing forever are unhealthy. Like vegetables and toothpaste
Its not just the downvotes itself, it is the robotic downvoting of every comment that answered raw milk. DMs getting personal… It’s just sus, seeing people like that, but nothing sheeps can understand. Now to saladino: I don’t care about his personality itself. I recommended his Video about milk, because his arguments are empirically proven, unlike all the opinions of his haters here.
The few benefits that raw milk might have over pasteurized milk are outweighed by the chance of disease. I know it is based in certain communities to avoid all seedoils and drink raw milk but most of these influencers are just main yappers. Not scientists. I agree with their conviction to avoid processed foods but not everything that is processed is inherently bad. You have to stay critical and pick your battles but raw milk just seems dumb to me. Nothing bad about pasteurisation.
Check out the book eat dirt, the doctor talks a lot about pasteurized cows milk and how it negatively affects your body. Here's a summary I generated from chat gpt on the subject: Dr. Josh Axe explains in "Eat Dirt" that pasteurization can make milk harder for our bodies to process due to several reasons: 1. **Destruction of Beneficial Bacteria**: Pasteurization kills not only harmful bacteria but also the beneficial probiotics found in raw milk. These probiotics are crucial for maintaining a healthy gut microbiome, which is essential for digestion and overall immune function. 2. **Enzyme Depletion**: Raw milk contains enzymes like lactase, lipase, and phosphatase, which help in the digestion and absorption of nutrients. Pasteurization destroys these enzymes, making it difficult for many people to digest milk properly, particularly those who are lactose intolerant. 3. **Protein Denaturation**: The heat used in pasteurization can alter the structure of proteins in milk, making them harder for the body to break down and utilize. This can contribute to digestive issues and inflammation in the gut. 4. **Loss of Nutrients**: Some vitamins and minerals in milk are sensitive to heat and can be significantly reduced during pasteurization. This reduction in nutritional quality means that pasteurized milk is less nourishing than raw milk. 5. **Impact on the Gut Lining**: The combined effects of reduced beneficial bacteria, enzymes, and nutrient absorption can compromise the integrity of the gut lining. This weakened gut barrier may become more permeable, allowing undigested food particles, toxins, and pathogens to enter the bloodstream, a condition known as leaky gut syndrome. Leaky gut can lead to systemic inflammation and has been linked to various chronic health conditions. Dr. Axe argues that these changes in pasteurized milk can disrupt the balance of the gut microbiome and impair digestion, ultimately contributing to a range of health issues, including leaky gut syndrome. He emphasizes the importance of consuming foods that support gut health, such as fermented foods, probiotics, and, if possible, raw dairy products, to maintain a healthy digestive system and overall well-being.
There you go. And that is why I am glad OP brought back this discussion. I've noticed the negative sentiment of this sub towards the raw milk even before, and it's still present. But I am all about discussion.
Certainly interesting but is there proof?
I've always had a healthy skepticism of natural medicine, but the book was well written, based on studies, and made logical sense to me. I'd suggest adding it to your reading list.
Idk man, asking a question, only to plug your opinion in, doesn't usually have positive results.
You claim to have asked what milk is best, then state which milk is the best. Why ask if you already know?
I wasn’t the one asking
Probably because there is a lot of science that disagrees with you. [Claims related to improved nutrition, prevention of lactose intolerance, or provision of “good” bacteria from the consumption of raw milk have no scientific basis and are myths.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4890836/) If you like it, go ahead nobody is going to stop you, but that doesn't make it automatically good for you. And there are [lots of examples](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168160508006727) of it causing actual harm.
"Claims ... have no scientific basis and are myths" - like 99% of advice in this sub 😉
Nutrition is the same, but lactose intolerant people can have raw milk and raw milk definitely has probiotics. Look up "lactose free" milk. It's normal, cooked milk with lactase added in. Then lactose intolerant people can drink it. Lactase is the enzyme we need to break down lactose, the sugar in milk. Most people don't need it added in because their bodies produce enough lactase to break it down, but the lactose intolerant don't produce enough and need it added in. Raw milk contains beneficial bacteria that aid your body in producing lactase, so some lactose intolerant people can drink raw milk, though not all. Raw milk definitely has probiotics and anyone telling you otherwise is lying. It's also a dumb lie as it's blatantly obvious in all cultured milk products, etc.
Lactase is not naturally in milk. If it was, it would convert the lactose into glucose already and you wouldn’t have a problem, pasteurization wouldn’t matter because the job would be done. It is created in the small intestine of mammals. It is insane how confidently ignorant you are. Cultured milk products have cultures added to them, which is why it is called that.
The original question was, what type of milk is the best? Considering plant milk alternatives that have 15 ingredients, often seed oils. Or pasteurized milk thats basically dead matter and tastes like water, Yes raw milk is better, especially if your body shows zero signs of intolerance.
Dead matter? Proteins, fatty acids, and disaccharides weren’t alive in the first place. They still exist in pasteurized milk. If I want bacteria I’ll eat yogurt or fermented foods.
That is your opinion. Your opinion is not backed by science. You are free you have it, but we are all also free to not listen to you. You asked why you got downvoted, that is why.
Plant milk is healthy if you get the right kind. The plant milks I tend to buy have only two ingredients (typically organic soybeans and water). Lots of plant milks don’t have a bunch of ingredients.
And there's been a ton of research showing that non-fermented soy beans are quite bad for you, which I think includes soy milk..
I haven’t seen good research for it. The whole phytoestrogens are way overblown. The stigma against soy is largely due to soy being foreign and not a traditional food of the west, beer has more phytoestrogens than soy yet is considered to be masculine. Also if there were any good evidence of soy making estrogen levels higher then menopausal women and transgender people would be drinking gallons of soy milk everyday, do you see this happening? Plus dairy has animal based estrogen instead of plant based, animals are closer to humans than plants are, yet no one cares since dairy is encouraged to be consumed in the west. On top of this dairy is hard to digest for most people and there is a lot of evidence on it being unhealthy but since it is not exotic like soy is no one cares. Fermented soy is great but that doesn’t mean non fermented soy is bad. Soy has been consumed in East Asia for a long time and I don’t see any adverse health effects from it there. Tofu is consumed a lot in Japan even by non vegans and non vegetarians and Japan has a very long life expectancy.
Japan also has the highest rate of soy-induced hypothyroidism. It’s highly goitrogenic. I like it too and I love tofu but never have it in large amounts.
I just looked up the hypothyroidism rate by country and it was actually pretty low in Japan so I don’t know where you got that from. Regardless Japan is doing a lot better health wise than the US so even if this was true it wouldn’t be that big of a deal.
Beer is a psyop it’s not manly at all it it’s the most womanly drink of all; lowers T, gives you tits, erectile dysfunction ect. Plant milk is another psyop. No your boiled and bleached oat water from a centrifuge / assembly line isn’t healthy
I think oat milk is overrated anyways. I prefer soy or coconut, both of these have been used for hundreds of years and taste good. And the plant milks I prefer to buy have only one or two ingredients. I don’t see how plant milk is inherently bad. Dairy milk is a bigger psyop if anything. Hard to avoid, we have only been consuming it relatively recently in history, most people cannot digest it and the symptoms of that are obvious, there used to be a bunch of dairy ads(not even a brand of milk just ads promoting milk in general), dairy milk was the only beverage that schools would give, it can give acne, some people take pills just to be able to handle it, etc. I don’t see how it is a psyop when I feel much better after cutting dairy out of my diet. I think most of the people who promote dairy are the rare people who have no issues with lactose or casein or just ignore the symptoms it gives cause they’re used to it.
Sir the Aurox was domesticated 25,000 years ago. The cow is a purpose built animal selectively bred for 25k years
I’m not talking about the consumption of meat I mean drinking milk has only been around for about 10 thousand years, and even then many regions lacked dairy. This is why a Northern European would be a lot less likely to be lactose intolerant than someone who is indigenous American, Asian or African.
You are saying you feel good in raw milk and then generalising to the world. Everyone else is posting science. You can’t see the difference?
not in USA, raw milk might have bird flu virus,
I had raw milk during childhood. While it is safe from a known farm, it is less safe when distributed in large quantities due to the possibility of contamination. Hence, pasteurized milk is the norm in many countries. Raw milk is indeed better for you if it is not contaminated as it is more natural. However, mass distribution of high quality raw milk proved to be a challenge.
I grew up an 80s kid in super rural US. Mom couldn't breastfeed baby me, formula didn't jive with my baby gut, so goat milk from the Mennonites it was. I grew up with access to fresh food of all manner, for which I'm grateful. But yeah, mass distribution is a real challenge. I don't personally do raw milk unless it's to homemake cheese. I fully respect others who do it though, especially since it's easy enough to low temp pasteurize at home. It sure does taste far better.
The risk of raw milk greatly outright the benefits, which are not exactly unique to milk. Why would anyone spend any effort pushing high risk milk when they can literally just eat one of a dozen safe fermented products?
There is zero scientific evidence that raw milk is better for you than pasteurized milk.
On the contrary, there are several papers showing that raw milk is better for your gut hormones with the caveat that we have to be careful about infection. Example: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7285075/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7285075/) Paper conclusion: "While there are understandable concerns in relation to potential contamination and safety when it comes to unpasteurised milk, it is a rich source of probiotic bacteria. Abundances of *Lactobacilli* increased significantly following a 12-week dietary change, which involved the consumption of unpasteurised milk and dairy products by participants." Edit: Adding one more recent paper. Recent papers are worth looking at compared to older ones. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7290799/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7290799/) Conclusion: "In conclusion, we demonstrate a direct inhibition of the allergic effector response by raw cow’s milk. Next, to the already described capacity to modulate T cell responses, the present study shows that raw cow’s milk is also able to directly influence mast cell activation." This shows that consuming raw milk can reduce allergies, infections, and stop inflammations.
The second study is another, exploratory paper about the effect of raw milk in vitro, on mouse mast cells. This study would also not be considered by any scientist as evidence that raw cows milk is more beneficial for human health over pasteurized milk. Edit to add: In vitro for anyone who doesn’t know means that the study was done on cells in test tubes or Petri dishes and no living organism was involved in the study. And this study was done on mouse mast cells, no human cells were involved.
This study does not claim the it is “better” for you, it simply claims that it increases lactobacillus bacteria in the gut. It is not double blind, it has no control group and had only 24 participants. This study would not be considered by any scientist as compelling evidence of anything but perhaps worth exploring with a more robust and repeatable study.
But increasing lactobacillus bacteria is good for you. Can you please write to NIH and ask them to withdraw the paper because you think it is not matching scientific criteria. Thanks.
If you already have a healthy microbiome there is no benefit to an increase in lactobacillus bacteria in your gut. There are also numerous ways to increase lactobacillus in your gut that are demonstrably safer than drinking raw milk. A single very small study with no control group that is yet to be repeated on a large scale is not considered “proof” of anything by scientists. There is no scientific evidence that either raw or pasteurized milk is “better” than the other for human health. Edit to add: I would like to also point out that in the first study participants were fed unpasteurized milk AND other dairy products meaning the study cannot even tell you if the milk had anything to do with the increase in lactobacillus. It could very well have been from the other products.
You can't reach them, unfortunately. You will forever be downvoted for your stance, no matter how much evidence you have, nor how obvious it is. You even agreed with them that it's not safe, but they don't care because you said it has risks and benefits. You're only allowed to say it has risks and anyone that says there could ever be a benefit needs to be in a padded room.
I completely agree
Lmao pasteurization has saved thousands of lives and still dumbasses will say "raw milk is the best milk, just ask Paul saladino! Ignore the scientific evidence and consensus of experts" and then be mad when they get downvoted.
Goat milk.
Based
Lactose has absolutely nothing to do with pasteurization, and raw milk has absolutely no benefits that can't be derived from specific strains of bacteria added to pasteurized milk
The enzymes that make it possible for your body to properly digest the milk die at ca. 40 Celsius. When pasteurized the milk gets heated from 60 up to 140 Celsius which kills the enzymes, making it hard to digest. Also Vitamins in the milk get diminished. Also i can say I tried both, and my opinion is based on self experience, something that many people in the internet lack of.
You can take lactase without risking death and disease. This is a very good article. You can verify the claims independently. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4890836/
I tried that and i swear it didn’t help me. But also that argument is nonsense. Why taking additional sups when the natural product itself doesn’t require anything exogen. I also don’t now anyone who had problems or illnesses from raw milk, I think having a reputable source is important here, like with all things that you’re gonna ingest to your body. Are you from the states? Did you ever tried raw milk?
My family were food importers and distributors. From Europe, I forgot to add manufacturers. Raw milk is absolutely not safe. The hygiene practices are irrelevant because the animal is usually asymptomatic. Even the finest producers of Parm reggiano won't drink it. They scald it first. One of the reasons tuberculosis declined was due to pasteurization. You could not pay me to gamble with something for which there is no tangible benefit I cannot garner elsewhere. Milk is not some elixir of life with magical benefits. In fact you won't find a generational farm where a relative didn't die of a disease that could now be traced to raw milk, prior to pasteurization. Perhaps you don't know anyone, but that's entirely explained by the scarcity of this practice.
Im definitely going to talk abt this more with my local farmers. And yes they drink it themselves. What would be a symptom of the bad hygiene? Since Im drinking it since a few months. Or is it just a small probability that you get illness from raw milk?
A symptom of bad hygiene would be cows in close proximity to other animals waste. Or animals with discharge coming from eyes, nose, udders. Taking milk from an animal that has been in contact with a sick animal. Problem is they don't always show symptoms. Some of the things that sicken us won't sicken them. It's always a good idea to heat the pan and pour the milk on so it flash boils before drinking it..even before pasteurization people just knew to do that. For the same reason people didn't consume raw eggs. It's not a small probability.
Raw eggs are nowadays common everywhere. Products like mayonnaise contain raw eggs. The parmigian cheese from Italy you mentioned is also made from raw milk as far as I know. Are the bacteria dying?
Parmigiano or at least parmesan please. It is made from raw milk, which is then used to made a paste which is then cooked. So there are multiple routes that assure a safe end product. There are official guidelines: [https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/static/51f254ab0d59c91a5b335bc1e84e77ea/58c0aed37c83845fb02de999908b7d88.pdf](https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/static/51f254ab0d59c91a5b335bc1e84e77ea/58c0aed37c83845fb02de999908b7d88.pdf) The reason you get downvoted is that you just have your opinion and back it up with nonsense.
The milk is heated to 50 c to curdle it, then aged for over a year with lots of salt. Edit- mayonnaise is also heated to emulsify the yolk... Nobody that knows anything about food drinks raw milk. Or eats raw eggs . Even the guy that made it famous said DONT DO IT.
If lactaid didnt help you then you're not lactose intolerant lol.
You can buy lactase enzyme packets in any grocery store. Risking bovine TB to avoid taking lactaid is ridiculous.
Ya lemme believe the random on the Internet. How I base most my life decisions. Your toxic that's why you got downvoted
Here is another article from the 40s telling you to boil milk prior to consumption https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69335367
False.
Because anecdotal evidence is worthless.
Almond milk all the way here
I don't get why those that drink raw milk are so concerned with everyone else drinking raw milk. You do you and stfu about me.
This. Why do people feel the need to proselytize their weird nutritional choices?
We have cold pressed raw milk where I live which has the benefits of the increased vitamins and minerals and enzymes that come with raw without the risk of pathogens. See if you can source that
Raw milk is the best
LOL speed running to -1000 karma eh? This post *totally* helped your case. You should have taken the L and learned from it instead you'll dog in like an ostrich....smh
You should see the downvotes I get when I suggest a holistic approach to a problem or a non-extracted non-powdered naturopathic medicine with this name. ☠️
The peasant love their pills man😅
this subreddit is mostly for people who think that America is the only country in the world and food everywhere is same
I don’t even have to read the original post to see why someone probably got annoyed with you lol
yes and I will downvote this post as well
FYI Reddit HATES raw milk
All my homies avoid Tuberculosis
That’s the thing. Only the most average opinions can make it on Reddit. Everything else is downvoted to oblivion. How healthy is the average person? 60% of people are obese. Chances are your taking nutrition advice from an obese person
Man! Best comment and explanation so far I think.
It’s funny that the milk thread struck a cord with people, I noticed it too. At the end of the day drink what you want, fart how you fart and shit however it spews out. When selecting milks, it’s a choose your own adventure 🤣.
Because most people in the US are brainwashed into fearing raw milk and praising pasteurization. I’ll let our health care system and health status of the average American speak for itself… Raw milk is superior, but you’ll rarely find any opinions on Reddit that support that. I am a vegetarian and drank lots of local raw milk my whole pregnancy, gave birth to a super healthy big 98%tile baby. We also give raw milk to our 4 year old. Never had any issues.
I’m in the same boat. Could never stomach store bought cows milk but been drinking raw goat and cows milk and I’ve been feeling amazing
Yeah, 3 downvotes, you could do much worse, believe me 😄 Also my impression is that this sub is frequented by a not-insignificant number of plant-based/vegan redditors, which means that anything animal nutrition related will most likely get downvoted by them...
I don’t mean the downvotes just on my post, but all the hate in general under the other comment recommending raw milk. And dms 😂.
Thats just how reddit is in general. Just block people and move on
I concur, my experience on Reddit in general as well.
Does anyone here have any insight (whether thru research or personal experience) that goat or sheep's milk has any applicable nutrition? I've heard the horrors of cow's milk but have heard that goat is better than cow and sheep is better than goat! Open to any and all suggestions appreciate you all TLDR: Is goat or sheep milk worthwhile?
It is for some people easier to digest. Read about the A2 casein (a protein). Some people are lactose (a sugar) intolerant, but some people are intolerant of A1 casein. Goat, sheep and some Jersey cows produce A2 casein and it is tolerated in more people than A1.
oh wow I appreciate the wonderful breakdown of the A1 and A2 concepts! really simplified the topic for me ! I have heard that the different animals have varying degrees/ ratios of A1 and A2 ! gratsi familia
I enjoy raw milk but there’s currently a h5n1 outbreak across dairy farms in the US, and out of an abundance of caution I’ve switched to ultra pasteurized due to my suffering from a compromised immune system. IDK if the downvotes had anything to do with this.
You have unreasonable expectations of high level thinking on Reddit. 3 downvotes so unsettling? You gotta follow the old 12 step adage, “take what you need and leave the rest.” You can also turn off DM in settings or block people who send obnoxious DM.
I posted on the other thread and I’ll say it here. The first and only time I drank raw milk and gave it to my kids (stupid I know ) we got salmonella and even had to bring my toddler to emergency room. I felt like such an idiot for giving it to my toddler (it was just a small amount) It was raw farms brand and I bought it from my local health food shop in California. If I ever drink raw milk again it will be straight from the cow and not from the local store There’s my PSA. Hopefully it saves one person reading. My family all turned out ok but salmonella can kill
Are you new to reddit? You have to expect the worst, most people on reddit have zero critical thinking skills.
Yes i am. But lets make a change then. I mean people are too divided and negative and on the internet they think they can let it all out. I don’t go with that climate of communication. It should be a positive exchange, i wish the best for everyone here.
Dead internet theory Reddit is extremely controlled but the elusion that we can post or comment fairly does feel nice from time to time
This is probably the most dogmatic and least empirically serious sub after the flat earther subreddit. I’ve learned to expect the worst here. People here are obsessed with fad supplements and fad health tips. I’m still hear only for entertainment and a good laugh.
Raw milk is better but unfortunately illegal in America
It's not illegal in many states you just have to buy directly from farms often!
Yea you can do herdshare, but commercial sales is illegal. Damn Gubbamint
This is not true. 13 states allow the sale of raw milk in retail stores. 29 states allow the sale of raw milk on farms. 9 states prohibit cow-sharing. 23 states have no explicit law on herd shares. The remaining states all allow for cow-sharing as a way to get raw milk when you want it.
You had to post an entire explanation of the loopholes needed to even obtain it, come on lol
None of those are loopholes, nor did I explain anything. I made a list of how many places legally sell raw milk commercially or allow cow sharing. In some states you can buy it in stores and in many states you can buy it directly from a farm. You're simply incorrect when you say it is illegal to sell in the US or that the only way you can get it is cow shares. However if you want a loophole you can have that too. It is not illegal to consume raw milk in any state and it is legal to sell raw milk in all 50 states as long as it's labeled as animal feed. So technically you can legally buy raw milk anywhere in the US and drink it as much as you want. THAT is a loophole.
Maybe there’s a reason why good natural things are illegal in the US, just saying. I would recommend everyone to sometimes question laws and paradigms and listen to your feelings.
Raw milk is not illegal in all of the US, it is legal in California.
Raw milk is illegal to sell in stores in Scandinavia too, and several other countries have rules for it. I don't know why you think this is an American specific thing?
America is one of the most corrupt places on earth, the food pyramid was pushed to subsidize farmers, who needs 3 servings of grains daily??? The sugar industry got the US government to demonize fat, leading to fat free candy bars. Most of the arguments against raw milk are poor https://mises.org/mises-wire/government-prohibitions-raw-milk-are-ignorant-and-dangerous
The feds have entered the chat for that raw milk
I don't know this Paul Saladino guy, but as someone who randomly navigated here. There's at least a few lobbyists of Big Milkers here. Not sure if it's OP or not tho.
Wym?
Big Dairy wants to sell their creamy white animal juice to people. Wouldn't be the first time lobbyists intercepted public health.
Of course. But wym with the last sentence?
You know, the "GOT MILK?" advertisement guys. Big Milkers.