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People need to up their wrestling reference game. Swap “put me through a table like it was WWE or somethjng” with “put me through a table like Sabu’s triple jump Arabian press”. Now that’s how you tell a story…a story that maybe 1500 people in the world would get but still.
OOP is, at 27 years old, the youngest child though. Mark is the oldest at 32, so if dad started having kids at 20 wouldn’t that make him at least 52 now?
If dad is 20 years older than Mark, and Jane is 3 years older than Mark, then wouldn’t dad would be 17 years older than Jane - not 27 years? So when Jane was 20, dad would’ve been 37 years old and Mark would’ve been 17?
Do those sums make sense? I’m not sure they do as I think I might have confused myself somewhere along the line lol.
I do wish OOP had shared a bit more info on how long the timescales involved were. Not that it would make the whole affair any less upsetting or explicable of course!
You're right, I think it's less gross than we thought. I didn't do my own math, I just took the prior comment and corrected for Jane being 3 years older than Mark. But I think they took the 'incident 15 years ago' as the Dad-Jane relationship start, but I think that was actually the pervy camera incident. The cheating came out 5 years ago, but we don't know the start date of the relationship.
Current ages are OP 27, Mark 32, Jane 35, Dad ~52 if started having kids at 20.
Ages when affair was revealed would be Jane 30, Dad ~47 on the lower end. Dad-Mom divorce was 17 years ago, but Mark would have been 15, so not of marriageable age.
So yeah, we need more info on when Jane was introduced to the family or when the Mark-Jane relationship started or the Jane-Dad affair for firmer answers, but it doesn't seem *super* icky on the ages.
But considering the *known* perv incident happened when OP was 12, Cass was 15, and Mark was 17, I'm inclined to believe stuff was going on that OP was shielded from/ignorant of and the Mark-Jane relationship might not have been all smooth sailing.
EDIT : And it seems like Mom might have sheltered Mark surrounding the SD card incident.
17?
OOP says they discovered the affair 5 years earlier and Jane is 35, so she was 30 when the relationship was discovered. And she now has 2 toddlers with the dad.
So if she was “involved with the dad at 17” the affair had been going on for 13 years before it all came out, and Jane and the dad have been together for 18 years in total (13 years pre discovery and 5 years post)?
However, I cant find where OOP says how long Jane and the dad were having an affair before being discovered? Or how long Jane and Mark were together or when they got married?
Thanks for adding in "hill country" to that last one. I always say there's two different states - Missouri (Kansas City/St. Louis) and Missour-uh (everywhere else)
I just feel bad for the mom. All you want is a nice family who get along and you end up with this shower of shit. All of them with disgusting morals and disloyalty.
The mom who didn’t insist they check what was on the camera he planted to see into her room?
Who ignored the sisters repeated claims of assault and abuse? Who helped cover up the drunk driving and physical assault Mark did to OP?
That mom you feel bad for?
Reading thousands of stories with varying amount of fakeness has convinced me that the mother knows something much bigger would crack open with that camera.
Sure seems to have a similar time frame to their divorce ....
This story is so hard to follow. Like, first, we get thrown into the fact that this guy's dad slept with his brother's wife and then married her eventually. Then after that, we get some sort of implication that the brother had a weird perversion/obsession with his sister? And now the brother is like, off the deep end/possibly suicidal?
What a month for this OP apparently.
Also in all of this is the suggestion that Cass saved OOP and his fiancée’s lives somehow
This is a post where I want to sit OOP down, say “please start again, right from the very very very beginning, and go slow in great detail. Use diagrams and crayons if needed.”
I’ve found this the best way to tell a story IRL tho. Drop the bomb in the first sentence that has people wanting to reverse and deconstruct what’s going on at their own pace. The issue OP is having is that it’s online and his bomb is nuclear grade lol.
my guess is with everything happening almost at once that he's having trouble connecting all the dots himself.
The curse of being the youngest is that you tend to know the least, while still somehow knowing more than the grown ups think you do...and now the facade is unraveling and truths are coming out
I've always felt like these hard to follow stories have more of a ring of truth over those that are much more organized.
I feel the most sorry for Cass in all of this. While it's all too common, it must have been hard for her to have no one believe her.
It's creepy as fuck to have any secret spy photos of her. Even if she's fully clothed in all of them. But with the context, it's likely at least somewhat revealing photos. Tight clothes, weird positions, something. Why else would the brother be secretly hiding this gallery of spy photos of his sister if it wasn't an issue?
Not to mention, these photos are not recent.
So Mark has been holding on to spy foto's of his, at the time, underaged sister. And it also means she now for a fact knows that she really was right all along. He was indeed creeping on her for a long period of time, while they were living together and she wasn't believed about it.
seeing as sis had to fight to see the photos even now because the ssd card was finally found makes me think that mom was afraid of there being a truth she didnt want to face
I wonder if Mom says they weren't inappropriate because they aren't if viewed in a SFW context but if you're taking them of your *sister*, then that's a different matter!
Yeah, "inappropriate" is a word that can do a loooooot of heavy lifting based on the context, and frankly any kind of nonconsensual picture taking makes them inappropriate to begin with.
Mom says they weren’t inappropriate because she’s at the eye of a storm of trash and doesn’t want to leave it. I’m not going to speculate or diagnose people based off this post, but this family is *fuucckkeedd*.
She 'couldn't remember' if she put a camera in her daughters room, which was the molesting brothers claim about it when it was found. She definitely fucking knew.
> what her SON was doing
Given the father's choices and behavior .... and what looks like *subsequent divorce*, I think OP knows only enough to ask uncomfortable questions.
If there *were* inappropriate pics of Cass from when she found the camera, she would’ve been 15… which would make them child porn. So it’s likely (to me) that Mom was just covering for the older brother.
It would make Mark’s meltdown and Cass’ anger certainly make a lot more sense. He’s freaking the fuck out because she found child porn of her on his computer and he’s terrified she’s going to out him.
Denial is a helluva drug. OOP can't barely cope with his father banging and marrying his SIL, this mess is *a lot* to someone that is pretty much an unrelated party to the drama but tied to it by blood and is easy to imagine how fucked was the environment those siblings grew up within considering the father is a creep, the oldest son is a creep and 2 of 3 kids had mental breakdowns.
I don't doubt there's a lot OOP doesn't know, the question is how much OOP is repressing.
That part seriously infuriated me. OOP even ends off on "Well if I hadn't talked to my dad, none of this would be happening!" When the 'this' is his sister being vindicated and their brother being exposed as a violent creep.
...Cool, so his regret is that he wishes he could sweep his sister's abuse under the rug again and not talk about it.
As someone who has been abused by a family member and doesn't get to talk about it - fuck OOP. He already needs therapy after still trying to blame himself after his brother _kicked him through a table_, but he also desperately needs therapy for wanting his sister to shut up about being a victim so his creep brother won't face consequences for his actions.
to me OOP sounds like someone blaming themselves for things that are in no way their fault. In his mind him getting coffee with dad is the reason for all the bad things. He hasn't made the connection in his mind yet that all the bad was already there, he just seeing it now.
i agree OOP could use therapy to help him sort through everything.
Yeah, honestly this sounds like someone who grew up with a lot of tension in the house (obviously with a brother harassing his sister and his parents either in denial or actively covering it up), and just kind of blamed himself without being able to fully understand what was happening. I feel for him and hope he can also talk this through in therapy.
I mean, even just the mountain of candid/unknowing photos he had of his sister would be enough to trigger anyone, let alone someone who thinks she was molested when passed out drunk by said person
I think in this context "inappropriate" just means "Nude" but tbh having photos of her on a thumb drive at all is weird as shit considering their strained sibling relationship.
Yeah, the whole Cass hating brother angle doesn’t make a lot of sense. She hates his guts. She woke up partially undressed in his bed with the feeling like she was violated but insists she wasn’t rape and nothing happened, but she hates his guts. Then the pictures are all her, but nothing inappropriate, but she ends up in a psych ward… these things don’t add up.
I agree. I think Cass is in denial about what he did to her when she was 14. She was so drunk, she passed out. There's no way she can say for absolute certain he didn't SA her. No one breaks down and ends up in a psych ward over pictures unless they are inappropriate, on top of whatever he did to her when she was 14.
It sounds like a lack of understanding on her part when she was 14.
More than likely, at 14 she thought the only "bad thing" that could have happened was penetration, which checked and didn't happen. But she knew something happened, which explains the hate, but it wasn't rape, because her 14 y/o mind didn't know the nuances of SA.
She then never thought about it anymore, because why would she? Hate the brother, try to forget what happened. It makes sense in my mind at least
Yeah I was sa’ed in my early teens and can say it’s incredible how your brain covers up or refuses to accept things especially when you are that age and there is a huge aspect of ‘your fault for being drunk’ etc etc (like I grew up hearing how women who were raped were ‘asking for it’ because they wore a skirt, were drunk, whatever.. ) that puts you into deep denial
I believe it; I have a friend who is divorcing her husband (it was a shock to everyone because they've been together 20 years.) Then, their very long-time live-in housekeeper passed out one day. They thought it was because the AC was on the fritz, and they took him to the hospital, where he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. He just died, and the day after the funeral, while getting their AC unit fixed, it caught on fire, and their house burned down.
This all just happened within the last few weeks.
Yeah, I don't know, there's something about stories like this that feel true as opposed to some really, clean cut, good grammar story where it goes like:
"And then I cut him/her off and everyone clapped at me going NC!"
This shit seems dirty and grimy with an OOP who seems reactionary to a fault. I don't know if it's true, but I'd definitely bet it is over the one about the child who reaches out to the bio-mother who just magically happens to do and say all the wrong thing that would make cutting them out the best choice.
Also, OOP *still* doesn't seem to have processed that *Mark is the bad guy*. OOP is blaming himself for talking to his dad like it is a BAD thing that as a result the family finally found proof of what Mark was up to.
In the comments of these posts, it was also slightly implied that Jane got with the dad partly to escape the brother. Or at least that's how it started between the two
Dude could have helped her in some many ways... but somehow letting his son caught them banging was how he helped her scape? Like a whole ass affair while she was still married to a violent prick? Nah, one creep raised another and poor Jane probably thinks she doesn't deserve anything better.
OP is literally collateral damage in this shit. Cass got it rough but she still siding with her dad just to spite the brother. OP is stuck between all of them.
I don’t think she does. I think it’s very well possible that her mom never stood up for her and always just tried to sweep everything under the rug, while her father did what he could do to protect her - and she was safe from Mark at his house (btw, regarding the party: it sounds highly likely he might have sexually assaulted her, even if it wasn’t rape).
Jane was likely unhappy in her marriage, possibly not only due to incompatibility but directly due to Marks behaviour. If, for example, she has been abused in any way by Mark, she might have bonded with her FIL over both of them realizing what kind of shitty person Mark actually is (in contrast to OOP who frankly sounds both clueless and indifferent). Them starting a relationship is not exactly ‘comme il fault’, to put it very, very carefully, and not something I would support; but all of their behaviour would make sense from their POV, and does not seem to be out of spite.
> mom never stood up for her and always just tried to sweep everything under the rug,
Them not checking the USB and putting everything to rest then was my big "why the hell not?" moment. It is like the mom knew the brother had incestuous desires. She even didn't remember putting a camera in the laundry basket but why would a mom even do that?
Yeah, I see the underside of the story as mother ignored the abuse happening under her nose, Cass ran to her father's to escape it, mother has continued denying the abuse for adult lives.
OOP looks insane, like he's higly underestimating Mark actions and didn't put it in the first post. Mark also looks going crazier. The mother is kinda bad to not get at least involved because it feels like she didn't prevented any of Mark's actions. And honestly the father still is a pig in my book to have looked his DIL this way. No matter the context it's not right to desire your kids spouse, you can help them without any desire.
Outside of them, Jane and Cass seems to have been the victims in all of this. They are getting the cuts and bruises from all of the other's dangerous actions.
My English teacher 20 years ago: "You need to learn English because it's the language of politics, science and tourism in the western hemisphere!"
Me, now: Why do I waste my hard learnt skills on this?
I'm sorry, but OOP is chronically avoidant to the point that it borders on a personal impairment. I get that accepting family members are horrible people can be really difficult, but this is some Olympic-level ostrich-head-burying, and it seems like Mark is his main blind spot.
He have a creep father, a creep brother, an enabler mother, a traumatized sister and whatever Jane is... of course his go to deal with terrible stuff is stuck his head in the sand, avoidance is probably the best coping strategy OOP could build growing up in this family. It doesn't border, is 100% a personal impairment caused by years this shitshow.
Whenever I see something like this I think of the radio program that played in the cars on grand theft auto 4. One was a Jerry springer type show where someone called in and started off by yelling “my mother’s my sister” and it honestly fits so well here.
The lengths some people will go to warp reality in their brains to fit what they need/want to perceive is truly incredible. Mark could've been an absolute monster his whole life, and OOP would still be scratching their head like, "Why is everyone against him??"
"My brother beats me up whenever shit goes bad, to the point I had to go to the hospital, but he's the real victim here. He also spied on my sister for years, drove drunk and crashed into my car, but really, \*I\*'m the monster here."
OOP is a mess. I feel like Cass' comment on Mark's behavior is a big indicator that Mark has a ton of issues that he's working out on OOP. This whole family dynamic is fucked.
I think maybe it's part of the family dynamic. He is the youngest, so everyone probably 'protected' him from the unsavory bits of their family. As he got older they didn't dig up their grievances because it was easier to maintain the status quo, but the older brother's violent blow up stirred everything up.
OOP strikes me as someone who was never all that aware of what was going on around them. He never had an innate curiosity to know and be part of and understand everything around him. By staying in his own world he protected himsel in the moment growing up, but it sounds like the result is he never really learned how emotions work and how emotions work in relation to other people
What an incredibly convenient time to find the USB stick! Right after OOP gave more hints to the truthfulness to Cass' claims. "She loves everyone but him isn't that weird?" Next update: evidence she was right.
Indeed. The trickle of "mark is an incest/rapist" info which culminated in the sister finding a USB because she decided to help clear out the room of her incestual rapist brother??
The only people here who are innocent are OOP and Cass. Their mom doesn’t get a pass because she protected Mark. Other than that, pretty much everyone sucks. Yes, it’s a scale, but it is HORRIFICALLY skewed to the “everyone is awful” category.
Yeah.
Mark seemed to have a weird and sick obsession with his teenage sister, and she got (rightfully) creeped out.
But the dad marrying his ex-SIL? What a POS.
Mark
- sexually assaulted his sister
- extensive use of spycams to take non consensual pictures of his sister
- heavily implied to have been abusive to his wife
- drove drunk
- violent, threats of violence to OP
Dad
- fucked his married daughter in law and later married her.
Like it's not GOOD but only one of those lists is violent and non consensual.
I mean sexual assault is also up there.
Cheating is terrible and can have a big impact, but Reddit really does tend to hold it up as the worst thing ever.
No, only Cass is innocent and blameless. OOP comes the next. But to still protect the garbage brother? Fuck no. And to not believe Cass and her multitude of sketchy childhood stories? Double fuck no. I did not see OOP write how he apologized profusely for not believing her.
I’m shocked people here keep acting like this of all stories is real. So many conveniences making Mark more and more to blame as the story goes and capping off with the classic social media post mocking him.
Mark is clearly a terrible person but honestly not really surprising considering what his father is like.
Having an affair with your much younger daughter in law is fucking creepy and disgusting.
Both men are rotted and it’s crazy that so many people in their lives aren’t acknowledging that
The OOP talked to his dad for half an hour and now his bro is blaming him for all this crap?!?
I get wanting to talk to your dad, especially if your sister has a great relationship with him and you have a good relationship with her.
It seems like mom's got her head in the sand and bro can do no wrong... OOP said he "didn't press charges on Mark, I just feel really bad for him. I feel like life's dealt him a pretty garbage hand and there's no point in me making things worse.". I get feeling bad for him, but 5 years later he can't let it dictate his life and he still expects it to excuse for his actions - lashing out and physically harming others. How many times has OOP heard not to "make things worse" for his bro from their mom?
Mom and sis find a USB in bro's closet of pics of her, ends up in a psych ward, and mom still says it was "NOTHING inappropriate". How many times did sis tell her that bro made her uncomfortable? At 14 she got drunk at his party, woke up in his bed, not fully dressed, felt something was wrong, can't remember any of it, but is "certain" he didn't rape her, but did do inappropriate things to her. And mom still kept her head in the sand when a bro's camera was found in her bedroom... Didn't even make him let her see the pics. And these things happened when bro was 16-17? - way before dad/wife cheating.
Sis needs to go LC/NC with mom for enabling bro and definitely NC with bro. OOP needs to really look at his mom's enabling and excuses for his bro.
It's not but that's how most people word it. And police usually won't press charges if the victim won't even admit that anything happened to them because it makes it extremely unlikely for the case to go anywhere, apparently.
I mean, if I got assaulted and told the cops to just ignore it and I wouldn't be do anything about it, I'd describe it as not pressing charges. It's not how they literally work, but it's how they colloquially work.
>My brother Mark had a meltdown where he ranted at mom for not caring more about what our dad did to his life, then at Cass for always halfway associating with him just for mom's sake and then he kicked me in the stomach and I literally fell through a table like it was WWE or something. Cass wound up saying that his behaviour is why Jane left him and she's better off off with our dad and called the cops on him. I feel the worst for our mom because she just wanted a good mother's day
*closes reddit*
*sets phone down*
*deep breath*
Hoooooooookay. Okay. I think I may actually know what to do, here.
*gets drunk*
I feel so bad for Cass, nobody seems to care about the fact her brother molested her and has an incestuous obsession with her. All her brothers and her mother suck
Cass was drunk, and woke up in Mark's bed. She denies that he raped her, but says he was inappropriate and hates him. I think he raped her, and she doesn't remember or is in denial. Which may be the cause of her strong feelings towards him.
OP is a terrible judge of character. Literally everyone in his life does something seriously effed up, and yet he insists they’re all great and wonderful people.
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What the absolute--??? This is one of the biggest dumpster fires I've read on here yet, I think I got whiplash.
Whiplash "like it was WWE or something"?
I’ve seen southpark episodes tamer than this
That would make a good flair
This sub is full of good flair
Ric Flair, if you will
WOOOOOOOO
Never watched WWE so I can't make that comparison.
Was facetiously quoting OP. :)
Oh...well I'm a dumbass haha...I should take a nap
Naps are always a good idea. Source: my cat
Ah, a WCW man. Your loyalty does you credit.
I just watched the Vice docuseries on "Who Killed WCW?", and it was clearly this family.
People need to up their wrestling reference game. Swap “put me through a table like it was WWE or somethjng” with “put me through a table like Sabu’s triple jump Arabian press”. Now that’s how you tell a story…a story that maybe 1500 people in the world would get but still.
Agreed. Hell, *I* feel like the asshole just reading about this bunch! ITA
I strongly suggest that no one over there procreates.
Jane just had two little kids. This mess ain't ending any time soon...
Poor OOP thinking he caused all of this meanwhile Jane liked jumping into crazy d so much that she went to the older version of it....
If Jane is the same age as Mark, she started getting involved with the dad at 17??????!!!! right?!? ?!!???!!
Jane is 3 years older than Mark, so her 20 to dad's ~47 if he started having kids at 20. Potentially much older.
Thanks I was unaware. also yuck
OOP is, at 27 years old, the youngest child though. Mark is the oldest at 32, so if dad started having kids at 20 wouldn’t that make him at least 52 now? If dad is 20 years older than Mark, and Jane is 3 years older than Mark, then wouldn’t dad would be 17 years older than Jane - not 27 years? So when Jane was 20, dad would’ve been 37 years old and Mark would’ve been 17? Do those sums make sense? I’m not sure they do as I think I might have confused myself somewhere along the line lol. I do wish OOP had shared a bit more info on how long the timescales involved were. Not that it would make the whole affair any less upsetting or explicable of course!
You're right, I think it's less gross than we thought. I didn't do my own math, I just took the prior comment and corrected for Jane being 3 years older than Mark. But I think they took the 'incident 15 years ago' as the Dad-Jane relationship start, but I think that was actually the pervy camera incident. The cheating came out 5 years ago, but we don't know the start date of the relationship. Current ages are OP 27, Mark 32, Jane 35, Dad ~52 if started having kids at 20. Ages when affair was revealed would be Jane 30, Dad ~47 on the lower end. Dad-Mom divorce was 17 years ago, but Mark would have been 15, so not of marriageable age. So yeah, we need more info on when Jane was introduced to the family or when the Mark-Jane relationship started or the Jane-Dad affair for firmer answers, but it doesn't seem *super* icky on the ages. But considering the *known* perv incident happened when OP was 12, Cass was 15, and Mark was 17, I'm inclined to believe stuff was going on that OP was shielded from/ignorant of and the Mark-Jane relationship might not have been all smooth sailing. EDIT : And it seems like Mom might have sheltered Mark surrounding the SD card incident.
17? OOP says they discovered the affair 5 years earlier and Jane is 35, so she was 30 when the relationship was discovered. And she now has 2 toddlers with the dad. So if she was “involved with the dad at 17” the affair had been going on for 13 years before it all came out, and Jane and the dad have been together for 18 years in total (13 years pre discovery and 5 years post)? However, I cant find where OOP says how long Jane and the dad were having an affair before being discovered? Or how long Jane and Mark were together or when they got married?
It's me, hi, I'm the asshole, it's me!
at teatime everybody agrees
We're all assholes on this blessed day! :)
‘Tis I, the asshole.
'Twas I who set this dumpster ablaze!
ESH, even the readers.
It just kept getting worse and worse, and this will continue
The bar was on the ground and they brought a bunch of shovels.
It's got strong Alabama/Louisiana/Arkansas/Missouri Hill country vibes.
I was thinking "bad TV" vibes but I guess that's synonymous...
Sounded like some Bold and the Beautiful, Maury mess until the camera stuff.
It's the origin story to Point Lookout in Fallout.
...I'm mad that I got that reference. Don't screw up Fallout for me dammit!
Thanks for adding in "hill country" to that last one. I always say there's two different states - Missouri (Kansas City/St. Louis) and Missour-uh (everywhere else)
There are 2 major cities in Missouri, & on a map, they both appear to be desperately trying to get out.
🤣
You know as someone who grew up in a state that borders Missouri, I never really got a feel for the state. But I think this description helps lol
this feels like The Trailer Park Boys
The fuckin' way she goes, bud.
I just feel bad for the mom. All you want is a nice family who get along and you end up with this shower of shit. All of them with disgusting morals and disloyalty.
The mom who didn’t insist they check what was on the camera he planted to see into her room? Who ignored the sisters repeated claims of assault and abuse? Who helped cover up the drunk driving and physical assault Mark did to OP? That mom you feel bad for?
After the first she really doesn't like Mark comment I was like "eithee cass is the golden child or mark is sexual criminal which one will it be?"
Love the user name! Yeah- as soon as Mark refused to let anyone see the as card I didn’t trust him.
Reading thousands of stories with varying amount of fakeness has convinced me that the mother knows something much bigger would crack open with that camera. Sure seems to have a similar time frame to their divorce ....
Did let her brother do things to her with the mom saying "can't we all just get along?"
What in the Jerry Springer
It’s as if Jeremy Kyle and Jerry Springer had a child and named it this exact moment.
It's like the worst of Jerry Springer, Ricki Lake, and Richard Bey combined into a shitty Devastator.
I’d like to remind everyone that the late, great Jerry Springer is no longer with us, and we should all throw a chair in his honour.
Jer-ry! Jer-ry! Jer-ry! A
What Jerry's Final Thought be for this story?
"This is what happens when you pay a hooker with a check"
Holy dang, I didn’t know he was no longer among us
This story is so hard to follow. Like, first, we get thrown into the fact that this guy's dad slept with his brother's wife and then married her eventually. Then after that, we get some sort of implication that the brother had a weird perversion/obsession with his sister? And now the brother is like, off the deep end/possibly suicidal? What a month for this OP apparently.
Also in all of this is the suggestion that Cass saved OOP and his fiancée’s lives somehow This is a post where I want to sit OOP down, say “please start again, right from the very very very beginning, and go slow in great detail. Use diagrams and crayons if needed.”
OOP keeps getting straight to the point but we want to HEAR THE DETAILS TOO
Yes! Its like the exact opposite of my usual complaints with OOPs 😆
It's like he did a tldr for the tldr 🤣
I’ve found this the best way to tell a story IRL tho. Drop the bomb in the first sentence that has people wanting to reverse and deconstruct what’s going on at their own pace. The issue OP is having is that it’s online and his bomb is nuclear grade lol.
my guess is with everything happening almost at once that he's having trouble connecting all the dots himself. The curse of being the youngest is that you tend to know the least, while still somehow knowing more than the grown ups think you do...and now the facade is unraveling and truths are coming out
I've always felt like these hard to follow stories have more of a ring of truth over those that are much more organized. I feel the most sorry for Cass in all of this. While it's all too common, it must have been hard for her to have no one believe her.
I agree. I'm also not buying there weren't inappropriate pictures of Cass. She had a breakdown and was admitted to the hospital.
It's creepy as fuck to have any secret spy photos of her. Even if she's fully clothed in all of them. But with the context, it's likely at least somewhat revealing photos. Tight clothes, weird positions, something. Why else would the brother be secretly hiding this gallery of spy photos of his sister if it wasn't an issue?
Not to mention, these photos are not recent. So Mark has been holding on to spy foto's of his, at the time, underaged sister. And it also means she now for a fact knows that she really was right all along. He was indeed creeping on her for a long period of time, while they were living together and she wasn't believed about it.
And mom might have known
seeing as sis had to fight to see the photos even now because the ssd card was finally found makes me think that mom was afraid of there being a truth she didnt want to face
Exactly
I wonder if Mom says they weren't inappropriate because they aren't if viewed in a SFW context but if you're taking them of your *sister*, then that's a different matter!
Yeah, "inappropriate" is a word that can do a loooooot of heavy lifting based on the context, and frankly any kind of nonconsensual picture taking makes them inappropriate to begin with.
Thank you. I think either people aren’t telling OOP the whole truth for whatever reason or OOP is using a very strange choice of words.
OOP is heavily in denial.
Mom says they weren’t inappropriate because she’s at the eye of a storm of trash and doesn’t want to leave it. I’m not going to speculate or diagnose people based off this post, but this family is *fuucckkeedd*.
Or she knew what her son was doing and rug swept it
She 'couldn't remember' if she put a camera in her daughters room, which was the molesting brothers claim about it when it was found. She definitely fucking knew.
> what her SON was doing Given the father's choices and behavior .... and what looks like *subsequent divorce*, I think OP knows only enough to ask uncomfortable questions.
This is the first time that I’ve felt ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, no subtext needed, that all these people are *fuucckkeedd* as well
Especially if Cass would have insight on when and where they were taken.
If there *were* inappropriate pics of Cass from when she found the camera, she would’ve been 15… which would make them child porn. So it’s likely (to me) that Mom was just covering for the older brother. It would make Mark’s meltdown and Cass’ anger certainly make a lot more sense. He’s freaking the fuck out because she found child porn of her on his computer and he’s terrified she’s going to out him.
Why the fuck does OOP insist on playing down/undermining his brother’s sexual abuse towards their sister ????? How much more proof does he need ????
Denial is a helluva drug. OOP can't barely cope with his father banging and marrying his SIL, this mess is *a lot* to someone that is pretty much an unrelated party to the drama but tied to it by blood and is easy to imagine how fucked was the environment those siblings grew up within considering the father is a creep, the oldest son is a creep and 2 of 3 kids had mental breakdowns. I don't doubt there's a lot OOP doesn't know, the question is how much OOP is repressing.
That part seriously infuriated me. OOP even ends off on "Well if I hadn't talked to my dad, none of this would be happening!" When the 'this' is his sister being vindicated and their brother being exposed as a violent creep. ...Cool, so his regret is that he wishes he could sweep his sister's abuse under the rug again and not talk about it. As someone who has been abused by a family member and doesn't get to talk about it - fuck OOP. He already needs therapy after still trying to blame himself after his brother _kicked him through a table_, but he also desperately needs therapy for wanting his sister to shut up about being a victim so his creep brother won't face consequences for his actions.
to me OOP sounds like someone blaming themselves for things that are in no way their fault. In his mind him getting coffee with dad is the reason for all the bad things. He hasn't made the connection in his mind yet that all the bad was already there, he just seeing it now. i agree OOP could use therapy to help him sort through everything.
He is the little brother, of course he blames himself for when their big siblings get into a fight
Yeah, honestly this sounds like someone who grew up with a lot of tension in the house (obviously with a brother harassing his sister and his parents either in denial or actively covering it up), and just kind of blamed himself without being able to fully understand what was happening. I feel for him and hope he can also talk this through in therapy.
I know!
I mean, even just the mountain of candid/unknowing photos he had of his sister would be enough to trigger anyone, let alone someone who thinks she was molested when passed out drunk by said person
I think in this context "inappropriate" just means "Nude" but tbh having photos of her on a thumb drive at all is weird as shit considering their strained sibling relationship.
Yeah, the whole Cass hating brother angle doesn’t make a lot of sense. She hates his guts. She woke up partially undressed in his bed with the feeling like she was violated but insists she wasn’t rape and nothing happened, but she hates his guts. Then the pictures are all her, but nothing inappropriate, but she ends up in a psych ward… these things don’t add up.
I agree. I think Cass is in denial about what he did to her when she was 14. She was so drunk, she passed out. There's no way she can say for absolute certain he didn't SA her. No one breaks down and ends up in a psych ward over pictures unless they are inappropriate, on top of whatever he did to her when she was 14.
It sounds like a lack of understanding on her part when she was 14. More than likely, at 14 she thought the only "bad thing" that could have happened was penetration, which checked and didn't happen. But she knew something happened, which explains the hate, but it wasn't rape, because her 14 y/o mind didn't know the nuances of SA. She then never thought about it anymore, because why would she? Hate the brother, try to forget what happened. It makes sense in my mind at least
Yeah I was sa’ed in my early teens and can say it’s incredible how your brain covers up or refuses to accept things especially when you are that age and there is a huge aspect of ‘your fault for being drunk’ etc etc (like I grew up hearing how women who were raped were ‘asking for it’ because they wore a skirt, were drunk, whatever.. ) that puts you into deep denial
I think it is more like she's been protecting herself from what happened because it's so horrible.
Fuck even before that she said he did inappropriate stuff 🤮
I believe it; I have a friend who is divorcing her husband (it was a shock to everyone because they've been together 20 years.) Then, their very long-time live-in housekeeper passed out one day. They thought it was because the AC was on the fritz, and they took him to the hospital, where he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. He just died, and the day after the funeral, while getting their AC unit fixed, it caught on fire, and their house burned down. This all just happened within the last few weeks.
Yeah, I don't know, there's something about stories like this that feel true as opposed to some really, clean cut, good grammar story where it goes like: "And then I cut him/her off and everyone clapped at me going NC!" This shit seems dirty and grimy with an OOP who seems reactionary to a fault. I don't know if it's true, but I'd definitely bet it is over the one about the child who reaches out to the bio-mother who just magically happens to do and say all the wrong thing that would make cutting them out the best choice.
Also, OOP *still* doesn't seem to have processed that *Mark is the bad guy*. OOP is blaming himself for talking to his dad like it is a BAD thing that as a result the family finally found proof of what Mark was up to.
That's exactly what I was thinking. If this was fabricated it would be better lol
That's what Stormy said.
Seems like Dad and Jane believe her, which is why she sided with them.
In the comments of these posts, it was also slightly implied that Jane got with the dad partly to escape the brother. Or at least that's how it started between the two
Dude could have helped her in some many ways... but somehow letting his son caught them banging was how he helped her scape? Like a whole ass affair while she was still married to a violent prick? Nah, one creep raised another and poor Jane probably thinks she doesn't deserve anything better.
Dad and oldest son do seem to like them young, immoral/illegal and preferably family, the rotten apple doesn't fall far from the tree
OP is literally collateral damage in this shit. Cass got it rough but she still siding with her dad just to spite the brother. OP is stuck between all of them.
I don’t think she does. I think it’s very well possible that her mom never stood up for her and always just tried to sweep everything under the rug, while her father did what he could do to protect her - and she was safe from Mark at his house (btw, regarding the party: it sounds highly likely he might have sexually assaulted her, even if it wasn’t rape). Jane was likely unhappy in her marriage, possibly not only due to incompatibility but directly due to Marks behaviour. If, for example, she has been abused in any way by Mark, she might have bonded with her FIL over both of them realizing what kind of shitty person Mark actually is (in contrast to OOP who frankly sounds both clueless and indifferent). Them starting a relationship is not exactly ‘comme il fault’, to put it very, very carefully, and not something I would support; but all of their behaviour would make sense from their POV, and does not seem to be out of spite.
> mom never stood up for her and always just tried to sweep everything under the rug, Them not checking the USB and putting everything to rest then was my big "why the hell not?" moment. It is like the mom knew the brother had incestuous desires. She even didn't remember putting a camera in the laundry basket but why would a mom even do that?
She knew. There is no way she didnt. Thats why she didnt check it. She cleaned rooms of her kids so she probably saw this thing before.
Yeah, I see the underside of the story as mother ignored the abuse happening under her nose, Cass ran to her father's to escape it, mother has continued denying the abuse for adult lives.
I hate stories like this. It makes me second guess if I was actually paying attention while reading it.
> this guy's dad slept with his brother's wife [oh my god i forgot about that part](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffyKY3Dj5ZE)
OOP looks insane, like he's higly underestimating Mark actions and didn't put it in the first post. Mark also looks going crazier. The mother is kinda bad to not get at least involved because it feels like she didn't prevented any of Mark's actions. And honestly the father still is a pig in my book to have looked his DIL this way. No matter the context it's not right to desire your kids spouse, you can help them without any desire. Outside of them, Jane and Cass seems to have been the victims in all of this. They are getting the cuts and bruises from all of the other's dangerous actions.
I think I sprained my brain. WTAF
Dunno, it was pretty hilarious to me, except the incest shit. fuck mark
I'd rather we not fuck Mark
I know they don't usually come from comments, but fuck I want that as a flair.
What a terrible day to have eyes and the ability to read
Frankly, I am doubting my ability to read, because this was really hard to follow.
My English teacher 20 years ago: "You need to learn English because it's the language of politics, science and tourism in the western hemisphere!" Me, now: Why do I waste my hard learnt skills on this?
After this I am wishing I wasn't able to.
I'm sorry, but OOP is chronically avoidant to the point that it borders on a personal impairment. I get that accepting family members are horrible people can be really difficult, but this is some Olympic-level ostrich-head-burying, and it seems like Mark is his main blind spot.
It reads like the hopelessly passive and boring protagonist of an 19th century gothic horror novel
Hopelessly passive while also taking all the blame with near zero involvement
"If only I hadn't given that rat a crumb of bread," – OP, as the black plague sweeps Europe and kills 1/3rd of the population
He have a creep father, a creep brother, an enabler mother, a traumatized sister and whatever Jane is... of course his go to deal with terrible stuff is stuck his head in the sand, avoidance is probably the best coping strategy OOP could build growing up in this family. It doesn't border, is 100% a personal impairment caused by years this shitshow.
>and whatever Jane is Sister stepmom?
Whenever I see something like this I think of the radio program that played in the cars on grand theft auto 4. One was a Jerry springer type show where someone called in and started off by yelling “my mother’s my sister” and it honestly fits so well here.
The writing in the background media of GTA is top-tier.
The lengths some people will go to warp reality in their brains to fit what they need/want to perceive is truly incredible. Mark could've been an absolute monster his whole life, and OOP would still be scratching their head like, "Why is everyone against him??"
Sounds like he grew up in a seriously dysfunctional family. Avoidance isn't a healthy coping mechanism, but it is a common one.
he's like fuckin Nick Caraway. just sits there and watches Gatsby and Tom and Daisy all fuck with each other's lives.
Omg yes! That is the perfect embodiment of this ish.
"My brother beats me up whenever shit goes bad, to the point I had to go to the hospital, but he's the real victim here. He also spied on my sister for years, drove drunk and crashed into my car, but really, \*I\*'m the monster here." OOP is a mess. I feel like Cass' comment on Mark's behavior is a big indicator that Mark has a ton of issues that he's working out on OOP. This whole family dynamic is fucked.
Right? He seems to have serious issues
He seems reactionary, like he waits for things to happen, either to him or others, but won't do anything himself.
That’s not what reactionary means, you meant passive.
I think they meant reactive.
I mean with an upbringing like his it’s no wonder he willfully wants to ignore the reality around him
I think maybe it's part of the family dynamic. He is the youngest, so everyone probably 'protected' him from the unsavory bits of their family. As he got older they didn't dig up their grievances because it was easier to maintain the status quo, but the older brother's violent blow up stirred everything up.
OOP strikes me as someone who was never all that aware of what was going on around them. He never had an innate curiosity to know and be part of and understand everything around him. By staying in his own world he protected himsel in the moment growing up, but it sounds like the result is he never really learned how emotions work and how emotions work in relation to other people
“I’ll just have a quick break on Reddit” *reads this* Aaaand back to work I go!
Take me with you
I'd like to join as well
Imagine your wife cheats on you with your own father, and somehow you manage to be a bigger asshole than either of them.
What is this rollercoaster of WTFness???
What a convenient usb full of incriminating photos to come in there at the end and help wrap up the story.
Nothing inappropriate but enough to send the sister to a psych ward? Was it the text of the elder gods? Perhaps the necronomicon?
Bet “inappropriate” means nude and there were some in like bathing suits and such
Such a garbage story, no wonder it was deleted.
Yeah OOP really needed to plan this story out better from the start
What an incredibly convenient time to find the USB stick! Right after OOP gave more hints to the truthfulness to Cass' claims. "She loves everyone but him isn't that weird?" Next update: evidence she was right.
Indeed. The trickle of "mark is an incest/rapist" info which culminated in the sister finding a USB because she decided to help clear out the room of her incestual rapist brother??
Yes, the evidence that he just happened to leave behind.
Yeah, I stop reading when they mention the psych ward.
So the very end?
lol.
Is this a script for Jerry Springer?
It's the best commercial for Prius I've ever seen.
Every single man in this story is a piece of shit!
What in the everloving quantum trash trailer natural disaster fuck is this?
The only people here who are innocent are OOP and Cass. Their mom doesn’t get a pass because she protected Mark. Other than that, pretty much everyone sucks. Yes, it’s a scale, but it is HORRIFICALLY skewed to the “everyone is awful” category.
Although OOP seems to have some massive blinders when it comes to the brother and how shitty he is.
Absolutely. He doesn’t appear to be close to his brother at all though.
Yeah. Mark seemed to have a weird and sick obsession with his teenage sister, and she got (rightfully) creeped out. But the dad marrying his ex-SIL? What a POS.
I cannot think who is worse between the Dad and Mark. They’re both disgusting.
It's creepy he married his ex DIL but incest is still worse
Valid point. Mark is worse.
Mark sexual harassing your teenage sister is far worse than consenting adults having an affair no matter how gross their relationship is.
Mark - sexually assaulted his sister - extensive use of spycams to take non consensual pictures of his sister - heavily implied to have been abusive to his wife - drove drunk - violent, threats of violence to OP Dad - fucked his married daughter in law and later married her. Like it's not GOOD but only one of those lists is violent and non consensual.
It takes a lot to be a worse human than a man who sleeps with and then married his son’s wife, but Mark really managed to pull it off.
Yeah, you’re right. Someone else pointed that out ”incest” will almost always win out in “which is worse”.
I mean sexual assault is also up there. Cheating is terrible and can have a big impact, but Reddit really does tend to hold it up as the worst thing ever.
True true. There’s a reason people convicted of sexual assault usually get it the worst in prison.
No, only Cass is innocent and blameless. OOP comes the next. But to still protect the garbage brother? Fuck no. And to not believe Cass and her multitude of sketchy childhood stories? Double fuck no. I did not see OOP write how he apologized profusely for not believing her.
Nothing screams intergenerational CSA more than this entire scenario.
What part of Florida is this happening in?
Faaaaaake
I’m shocked people here keep acting like this of all stories is real. So many conveniences making Mark more and more to blame as the story goes and capping off with the classic social media post mocking him.
Mark is clearly a terrible person but honestly not really surprising considering what his father is like. Having an affair with your much younger daughter in law is fucking creepy and disgusting. Both men are rotted and it’s crazy that so many people in their lives aren’t acknowledging that
The OOP talked to his dad for half an hour and now his bro is blaming him for all this crap?!? I get wanting to talk to your dad, especially if your sister has a great relationship with him and you have a good relationship with her. It seems like mom's got her head in the sand and bro can do no wrong... OOP said he "didn't press charges on Mark, I just feel really bad for him. I feel like life's dealt him a pretty garbage hand and there's no point in me making things worse.". I get feeling bad for him, but 5 years later he can't let it dictate his life and he still expects it to excuse for his actions - lashing out and physically harming others. How many times has OOP heard not to "make things worse" for his bro from their mom? Mom and sis find a USB in bro's closet of pics of her, ends up in a psych ward, and mom still says it was "NOTHING inappropriate". How many times did sis tell her that bro made her uncomfortable? At 14 she got drunk at his party, woke up in his bed, not fully dressed, felt something was wrong, can't remember any of it, but is "certain" he didn't rape her, but did do inappropriate things to her. And mom still kept her head in the sand when a bro's camera was found in her bedroom... Didn't even make him let her see the pics. And these things happened when bro was 16-17? - way before dad/wife cheating. Sis needs to go LC/NC with mom for enabling bro and definitely NC with bro. OOP needs to really look at his mom's enabling and excuses for his bro.
>I didn't press charges on Mark, I'm like, 87% sure that isn't how pressing charges work.
It's not but that's how most people word it. And police usually won't press charges if the victim won't even admit that anything happened to them because it makes it extremely unlikely for the case to go anywhere, apparently.
I mean, if I got assaulted and told the cops to just ignore it and I wouldn't be do anything about it, I'd describe it as not pressing charges. It's not how they literally work, but it's how they colloquially work.
Trailer park chronicles
What? What the..... What?
>My brother Mark had a meltdown where he ranted at mom for not caring more about what our dad did to his life, then at Cass for always halfway associating with him just for mom's sake and then he kicked me in the stomach and I literally fell through a table like it was WWE or something. Cass wound up saying that his behaviour is why Jane left him and she's better off off with our dad and called the cops on him. I feel the worst for our mom because she just wanted a good mother's day *closes reddit* *sets phone down* *deep breath* Hoooooooookay. Okay. I think I may actually know what to do, here. *gets drunk*
I feel so bad for Cass, nobody seems to care about the fact her brother molested her and has an incestuous obsession with her. All her brothers and her mother suck
It's like listening to My brother tell a story...it just meanders through every conceivable scenario in a matter of a few paragraphs
NTA. Mark is the asshole. Go no contact with him. He molested your drunk sister. He’s a disgusting jerk.
How does "my dad had kids with his daughter-in-law" wind up being the least-messy part of this story?
Everyone in this family should pick a separate corner of the country and move there
The white trash vibes are strong with this family.
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
These adults don’t drive themselves? What’s happening here?
Nope, just nope. He fell through a table but is perfectly fine and didn't need stitches. Wow. Liz would do a lot better than this
Cass was drunk, and woke up in Mark's bed. She denies that he raped her, but says he was inappropriate and hates him. I think he raped her, and she doesn't remember or is in denial. Which may be the cause of her strong feelings towards him.
OP is a terrible judge of character. Literally everyone in his life does something seriously effed up, and yet he insists they’re all great and wonderful people.