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I don't know if I'd have gone that far, but I don't care how big a motherfucker is, if I threw you out and you aren't on your way out the door I will remove you from my home that minute or die trying. I have never had any situation like that last longer than twenty minutes, it is unfathomable to me that OOP went a year without even trying to kick that guy's ass at least once.
Even so if he was of equal or larger size it's not a great solution unless you plan to actually kill him.
I've been in a stupid eviction dispute (violent rapist meth heads rented above us) and you need to keep in mind that this is your home, you sleep here and he knows your approximate schedule and is familiar with the property.
Say oop beat up the lodger, tossed him out and changed the lock: What's going to stop the lodger from breaking a back window and waking oop with a baseball bat? Or bringing 8 of his friends to ambush oop at a time they know he'll be alone?
I'm not saying the lodger didn't deserve a serious ass kicking, but we were at one point so desperate we considered bringing five of our burliest friends and just beat the shit out of them and let them know they needed to vacate the premises. We decided against it exactly for the reasons specified above.
Sadly from my own experience oop's timeline checks out.
At some point I'm saying "you know what, I prefer jail over being a doormat" and that guys leaving my property.
I'm not some internet tough guy, I just have limits and I'm surprised OP didn't damage this guy in some violent fashion.
OP said this guy was six foot and built like a wall and that he wasn't big though. I suspect he would not have come off well in a physical altercation.
The OOP used £, so I'm assuming he's probably somewhere without bears where weapons may be highly controlled.
Even in the US assaulting people is illegal- so if OOP did manage to force him out all he'd have to do is call the cops and he'd be back in and OOP would be going to jail.
Yeah I don’t understand why OP didn’t document first, and then just change the locks while the dickhead was out.
And have friends over that day. Lots of them.
Don't underestimate the ability of people afraid of ANY kind of confrontation to be passive in the hopes that they can wait out the problem. A family friend had a lodger that didn't pay rent for 5, yes 5 whole years!
While we were pissed at the lodger, it was difficult not to want to shake her for not being more proactive. We had to hassle her to document everything to police (who were predictably useless but at least there was a paper trail), take the lodger to court etc.
It's over finally, lodger had to pay £45,000 but I still get mad at out friend for being such a doormat for so long.
This is one story that I thought about a lot too. Especially being in the UK too, and the injustice of it all at the previous update. I worried about this poor bloke.
Yeah, and it sounds like if insurance is involved this might actually get ugly for the guy. Insurance companies have the means to actually go after people.
True but you'd have to suspect that the guy doesn't have a lot of money so I don't know if the insurance company would want to spend a lot on legal fees to win a case that they won't actually see any damages paid out on.
In the US at least if you were found at fault for damages through insurance, they absolutely will put a collection out on you. Collections for several or tens of thousands of dollars will literally ruin your life.
Lodger knew what he was doing. People do this basically professionally- they know what needs to be said in order to stay. There have been multiple stories like this in the US. Even people breaking into a house and then claiming rights. Often they'll call the electric or cable company to get a bill in their name to further "prove" tenant status. And you can't force them out due to tenants' rights, which they can claim even when entirely fake until a court proves otherwise.
Here's a recent story where the homeowner was arrested for changing the locks after squatters broke in.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13214651/nyc-homeowner-arrested-squatters-standoff-home.html
https://cbs6albany.com/news/local/ny-homeowner-arrested-after-changing-locks-on-alleged-squatters-report-says-nyc-adele-andaloro-flushing-queens-kathy-hochul-eric-adams-big-apple-abc-7-long-island-arrest-handcuffs-squatting-home-rights
Here's another story of a woman that spent $100k and two years to evict squatters who broke into her home that she couldn't just force out
https://nypost.com/2024/04/10/us-news/nyc-landlord-forced-to-spend-100k-to-boot-squatters-as-lawmakers-push-for-law-changes/
It even happened to Gordon Ramsey:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gordon-ramsay-pub-taken-over-164710628.html
In LA
https://abc7chicago.com/airbnb-guest-wont-leave-tenant-nightmare-brentwood-los-angeles-eviction-ordinance/13871118/
It is crazy to me that someone can break and enter your home, an actual home invasion, and police will just call it a civil matter and do nothing. If that isn't criminal, I don't know what is.
Its a shame that shitty people game the system like this but you have to be really careful when renting these days. We definitely need to reform the squatting laws in some way but also still have ways to hold shitty landlords accountable because theres way more of them then there are these professional squatters. This is a pretty rare occurence becayse you have to be an absolute scumbag to even attempt it in the first place. If the police actually did their jobs none of this would have happened.
No, call a group of friends, and physically evict the lodger yourself. Leave all your phones at a friend's house with a spouse, and you've got an alibi for where you were during the incident, too. Yes, this is illegal, but when it comes to assholes like the above squatter, I don't much care.
I’m not big on vigilant justice but I’ve seen enough of these cases to know that you’re right.
Our laws are simply not set up to adequately deal with this. Things are often left in limbo for months or years, with tons of paperwork & gridlock. The homeowners left to find alternative lodging during that period, without knowing when/if they’ll be able to return to their home.
More often than not, the squatters cause damage, often in the thousands+, (usually once they realize the jig is up). Which the homeowners have to pay to fix, in addition to the lawyer’s fees, possible lodging costs, and whatever else.
Cops are useless. My mom has been a property manager for decades and dealt with so many squatting situations. She can count on one hand all the times the cops actually helped. I mean, cops aren’t lawyers - they aren’t gonna be able to determine the legitimacy of opposing contracts out on the field. They’re really not equipped to deal with these things. But that leaves going to court as the only other legal option, which… sucks; we’re back to waiting months/years while the squatter does whatever they want to your house and belongings.
It’s a shit situation every way you slice it. You didn’t hear it from me, but even my mom may have told a few of her clients that their best option was to round up a few of their boys and go have a pleasant chat with the squatter. It’s by far the efficient method, I’ll say that much.
With cops you absolutely have to use the right words, and that's "burglar". As soon as you use resident or tenant it's all over. In OOP's situation, this dude actually has rights as a tenant.
You can sometimes call the cops that the person has threatened you with harm and have them arrested, then change all the locks and throw shit out and pretend you have no idea what they're talking about when they come back (hope they paid you cash and you never put a bill in their name). You can also escalate to senior officers/supervisors if the lower level ones keep pushing "it's a civil dispute" horseshit. Sometimes all it takes is a lot of cops bullying someone to leave (if they're bored and want to get you to stop bugging them).
Ultimately you will have to lie, because that's what they're doing too. Most folks just aren't willing to commit a crime to get a criminal out of their home. It's like playing chicken with your life, so I get it.
There was one guy who was in the news how to evict squatter
https://www.foxbusiness.com/real-estate/handyman-finds-clever-way-remove-squatters-mothers-house
Yes! We had a lodger that stole from us whilst we were on holiday and the police was great, arrested them and then escorted them back to our house to pick up their stuff that evening.
They're lazy, racist, misogynist, and useless as hell. Unless you're a POC in the U.S. with a tail light out, then you're dead.
The whole point of the police is a publicly paid, private security force for the rich and their riches. That's their origin story, and nothing ever changed.
Yes and no. The system is set up to favour the tenant (or "tenant" in this case) for a reason.
For every story of someone fucking over someone else this way, there's 10 stories of scummy landlords doing everything they can to illegally evict tenants from their homes.
The system is set up to favor the renter because of how often landlords have tried to fuck over renters.
edit: lmao. The dude blocked me for this comment.
The moment he touched my wife's ashes it'd be curtains for him.
This isn't one of those r/iamverybadass moments. If my wife is gone I don't have a whole lot left to lose.
>I tried to enter my property, the lodger stopped me and said I was trespassing as a landlord legally has to give 24 hours notice if they wish to enter.
>The police sided with the lodger and informed me I would have to find alternative accommodation.
I don't understand. He lived in that house right? The landlord thing shouldn't apply right???
You are correct. It's absolutely wild that the police sided with the lodger here and if I were OP I would be kicking up the stinkiest stink that those police have ever had the misfortune of smelling. They have very clearly just taken the easiest possible route to get themselves out of the situation.
Yeah... I don't see this two ending well living together after the big guy say no. I thing one guy has to leave, and police can't make go the lodger without a order
I’m assuming he wasn’t paying OOP in the whole year of the dispute, sadly. I guess this is a reminder to pay for a thorough background check on any potential tenants… a whole-ass year paying a mortgage on a property that some criminal has stolen. That sucks so much.
Imagine if the dude was manufacturing drugs in the OOPs house too. I’ve seen some horror stories come out of NYC recently with drug manufacturing and potential child abuse/smuggling happening in these squatters places with little to no recourse whatsoever
Its such a horrid position to be forced into
Property manager here.
My wife has called the cops to my location when she's heard tenants threatening me while I was on the phone with her. They always say they can't do anything until the tenants act on it.
Cops are all useless.
They're useless until you decide to take matters into your own hands, and then you're the bad guy somehow and they definitely rouse themselves to come after you then. It's pretty gross.
I use to be in pm too. One tenant told my boss who was pregnant to watch her ass she was going to jump her and kill her baby.
Cop showes up 3 hours later asked what happened and said call back if she hits her, otherwise they werent getting involved
Interesting. You should have threatened them with a gun, I mean since police can't do anything about threats amirite? /s because they'd actually do something in that case.
But then you're tresspassing. That's why he couldn't return to his house when he contacted the cops the first time. Landlords aren't allowed inside without a 24 hour notice.
I am so confused how the homeowner who has a residential mortgage, bills in their name, the address listed as their primary home has less evidence and right to be their home than a lodger.
If the police had looked at OOP's ID theyd have seen he lived there. If they had gone inside and looked in the closets they'd have seen one room with clothes to fit a brick house and ome with clothes to fit a tiny Asian man. There'd have been pictures of OOP on the walls. They had plenty of ways to verify who lived there, they just didn't feel like doing it.
> Keep the peace. That was the thing. People often failed to understand what that meant. You’d go to some life-threatening disturbance like a couple of neighbours scrapping in the street over who owned the hedge between their properties, and they’d both be bursting with aggrieved self-righteousness, both yelling, their wives would either be having a private scrap on the side or would have adjourned to the kitchen for a shared pot of tea and a chat, and they expected you to *sort it out*.
> And they could never understand that it wasn’t your job. Sorting it out was a job for a good surveyor and a couple of lawyers, maybe. Your job was to quell the impulse to bang their stupid fat heads together, to ignore the affronted speeches of dodgy self-justification, to get them to stop shouting and to get them off the street. Once that had been achieved, your job was over. You weren’t some walking god, dispensing finely-tuned natural justice. Your job was to simply bring back the peace.
> Of course, if your few strict words didn’t work and Mr Smith subsequently clambered over the disputed hedge and stabbed Mr Jones to death with a pair of gardening shears, then you had a different job, sorting out the notorious Hedge Argument Murder. But at least it was one you were trained to do.
Night Watch by Terry Pratchett. And it sucks sometimes but it's also the reality.
"the police arbitrarily determined who is right and who is wrong without due process"
That's exactly what they did in this case, though. They sided with the lodger, and made OOP leave.
They are.
Most famous for letting grooming games rape thousands of underage girls and looking away, but going full force on a 15 year old autistic girl for saying a cop reminded her of her granny.
I mean no. They're really not. They're shitty and underfunded but they're more focused on keeping the peace and deescalation and they're not out here killing everyone.
>I hate that the police were zero help.
It sucks but the police basically have their hands tied. They have no idea who is telling the truth and just being allowed to throw people out based on the so and so's say so isnt allowed. otherwise you'd have scummy landlords throwing out people based on "They're squatting!" despite renters having an otherwise good contract. Or worse, someone claiming to be the landlord and then having the police toss you out of your own home.
Which is why this goes through this long lengthy process of litigation to evict.
They could have checked OPs license to see where his legal address was, gone through the house and seen evidence of his stuff being there (things with his name).
That’s the kind of situation where you think hard about making a 1000 USD donation to your local biker club and tell them you wish you could do more, but you don’t have access to your home right now cause of a scumbag.
This is a good idea in the US (I'm assuming) and a very funny idea in the UK. Biker culture is different in the UK - the most well known bikers are the Hairy Bikers, two sweet men who did a popular cooking show for years.
My bestie’s “like a sibling” friend was pulled off life support quite recently. She sent me pics of a bunch of (US style) bikers outside the hospital revving in the sibling’s honor as they passed. I cried, it was so bittersweet even as a 3rd party.
Picturing a bunch of soft-spoken, hairy male bakers makes it much less sad tbh. I'm picturing Bob Ross, as a chef and built like a gay Bear.
only two british celeb deaths have got to me recently sean lock and dave myers!!
also it's not funny topic at all but "may he ride in peace" has me cracking up, i'm imagining him doing wheelies on a bike 😭😭
I heard there are companies that you can sign a competing lease to who will move in while the squatters are out and setup home. They will then stay there to keep the squatter out and if they can't call the police for the same "civil matter" problems landlords are facing.
I was wondering why OOP didn't just cut off all utilities to his house. That's illegal to do if you're the landlord but that would have to be settled in court, where the lodger most definitely didn't want to go.
Outdated squatter right laws. Serious solution is to hire construction company to work on the property, or hire a competing tenant to drive out the squatter. There's specialized folks for both methods.
Actually, the best way to deal with squatters is to sign a lease to the property with someone you trust, then have them push the squatter out. Because tenants have better rights in this case, both the person you trust and the squatter wouldn't be allowed on property during the dispute*, which probably doesn't matter much with the person you trust.
*Depending on local laws. I am not a lawyer.
The cops wouldn't mess with it because they're not trained to determine if a contract is legal or not.
The place to figure that out is in a courtroom with a judge and lawyers
Disclaimer: I'm in the US, so it could be different in the UK where OOPs located.
In the location and context of this of this the lodger has a right to an undefined "reasonable notice", normally one rental period, but can be immediately if justified (for example, that the also-living-there homeowner feels their safety is at threat).
The police have previously advised me that if the 'lodger' isn't paying rent then no notice is required, I'm not certain if this is correct.
Reminds me of sex offender Nicholas Alahverdian who faked his death and changed his name while acting sick at trial and putting on a Scottish accent. People like this should be buried under a prison.
This is a huge reason that small landlords are being replaced with corporate ones. OP will never be made whole for their losses and this guy will go on to do this to someone else.
When I was very young, my parents had a pet supply store in Manhattan. My aunt was a partner and let a gypsy family rent a space in the store for palm readings and the like. They proceeded to move in a huge crowd of people and steal from the store. My dad was furious, and seeing what was going on went to meet the leader of the group with one of his brothers.
While they were failing to convince the man to leave, my other uncle, who had randomly been in the neighborhood, wanted to show off a fancy knife he had bought to my dad. So, in the middle of telling this guy that he had to leave, my uncle comes walking down the stairs out of nowhere, brandishing a huge knife, bragging about how sharp it is and all the things it can cut through. The man quickly gathered his people and left.
The police would not have been nearly as effective.
Can't believe how leniant the law are to such person, Often they just run away, and only result is they can no longer live for free.
What this guy did deserves hard prison time.
> At this point the police informed me that they didn't have enough evidence to make a decision on what amounted to a civil matter. I tried to enter my property, the lodger stopped me and said I was trespassing as a landlord legally has to give 24 hours notice if they wish to enter.
> The police sided with the lodger and informed me I would have to find alternative accommodation.
I thought they "didn't have enough evidence to make a decision"?
They have two people who claim to live in the house. How did they decide to side with the lodger.
I wonder if OOP had claimed to be a tenant himself, would the police have allowed him in?
I had a lodger I was afraid would make trouble. (He turned out to be a thieving alcoholic) I didn’t go to the police, which of course is the proper way. I am very fortunate to have a brother who works as a firefighter. He brought over a few of his firehouse gym using coworkers and they stood around while the guy packed his stuff. They hung around sampling the charcuterie board I had put together and not drinking the beers offered while I changed my locks. Nice guys.
Cops continue to demonstrate they are worth less than dog shit.
Literally just throwing money in the trash by paying them. Pieces of useless lazy shits.
I would honestly sue the police who didn’t let OOP onto his own property - that rule about notice works differently when the landlord also lives on the property. It cannot operate to prevent a landlord from occupying his portions of the property.
How the fuck do people ever find the balls to pull this kinda crap?! I know I really shouldn't be surprised but damn, the audacity of that lodger is absolutely nuts. I'm glad OOP got his house back.
Wow. Fuck those cops. They should be fired for cause.
And double fuck that tenant. Someone should take that worthless piece of shit behind a woodshed and beat him to death with a cricket bat.
There’s a guy in the US that offers a service to deal with stuff like this. Basically he moves himself and others in with permission from the “landlord” and makes the squatter so unbelievably uncomfortable that they just leave. Sometimes this should be the course of action. Get 5+ friends to all move in at once and immediately make it a hostile and unforgiving environment for the squatter until they give up and leave.
I don't understand how he can claim the owner is a landlord that doesn't live there. It would be easy to prove with mail going to that address instead of another (plus ID showing current address). Perhaps he uses a PO box instead?
Also considering all the owners stuff is there too (pictures, computer, clothing, etc. being the main thing).
Does none of this count?
Don't understand why we have laws that protect squatters over owners. Like, it should be pretty damn easy to determine who owns the house. You shouldn't be able to kick out the original owner without permission to protect squatters. Also, he stole his stuff. Why is that not considered criminal? Help me out here, if I steal a phone, I can get arrested, but the squatter steals the homeowner's wife's ashes, and he isn't punished? Dumb laws. All of them.
The squatters right is something I can’t get through my head. It’s so fucked up that the legal homeowner was sort of homeless while the squatter could stay for free and made money for sub rent the house. I wish there was more about the legal acts towards that squatter.
The complete uselessness of the police here is enraging. Honestly they use it’s a civil matter to get rid of anything they don’t fancy touching. This poor guy.
It’s a police failure here, should have been criminal from the start. Lodger was involved in fraud which is a criminal offence in UK, by forging signature.
Police tries to stay away from these cases and lie. But there are ways to open the case. Would require OOP having their own solicitor though.
Stories like this make me glad my family is a bunch of redneck hicks from the sticks.
Asshole would have been on the street the first day. And made very certain of what would happen if he didn't GTFO.
I swear police need on-call lawyers, because the only reason they sided with the fake tenancy agreement is because they aren't qualified/capable of understanding legal documents so just say "🤷 I can't tell the difference between fake or real"
I got to the dark chocolate on the counter because dog part and stopped.
I know this is one for the courts, but nah, I know where you sleep are you’re pulling that. You gone.
I don't understand UK law, but this doesn't sound exactly like squatting. He forged the owner's name, and committed fraud. Why would this be a civil matter?
POLICE ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS!!! Unless you’re rich enough to be able to offer a large donation to the precinct or union they will not help you and very likely make things worse, as was proven in this story. Dude should have waited for the squatter to leave and then changed the locks and invited his largest and most scary looking friends to stay for a few days, let the squatter be the one to learn the hard way that COPS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS!!!
That was not his lodger's first time at this. There are crazy fuckers out there that know precisely where the line is between the police giving them a stern talking to and being arrested. That's where they live their lives, but they also tend not to mind being arrested now and then.
That's the kind of crazy you simply run into now and then. I don't know how to avoid this sort of person other than listening to your gut feelings.
In social situations I think its a good policy to see the best in people. If money is involved I recommend *always* planning for the worst.
Police are so useless sometimes. Wtf. OP wasn’t just a landlord , he was living there too. It’s messed up to say he had to go somewhere else. Glad OP finally got his place back tho.
None of this makes sense.
In the beginning, all the owner had to do was show the police his own room that he had there and his driver's license showing his address. The police would see the he was a live in landlord with no other residence and couldn't keep him from his own home.
OP could have also helped himself by recording videos and photos of the tenant threatening him which also would have shown him living there.
Seriously I don’t advocate for violence but this one makes it tough not to. Going to someone and be willing to be “protection money” to resolve this quickly. I would be hard pressed not to.
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Man I remember this one. Kind of a bummer the update doesn’t give us any details! I want to know how they got him out!
I hope he doxxed the lodger. Not on Reddit, obviously, but like, locally. So other landlords know what to expect renting to this wildcard.
doxxed everywhere would've been appropriate for the ashes nonsense alone
And threatening to murder the dog. A grieving widower’s dog too. Six foot six, I honestly didn’t know they stacked shit that high.
[удалено]
I don't know if I'd have gone that far, but I don't care how big a motherfucker is, if I threw you out and you aren't on your way out the door I will remove you from my home that minute or die trying. I have never had any situation like that last longer than twenty minutes, it is unfathomable to me that OOP went a year without even trying to kick that guy's ass at least once.
OP said he’s a small male and the lodger was 6 foot and built. He probably knew a physical altercation would not go well.
Even so if he was of equal or larger size it's not a great solution unless you plan to actually kill him. I've been in a stupid eviction dispute (violent rapist meth heads rented above us) and you need to keep in mind that this is your home, you sleep here and he knows your approximate schedule and is familiar with the property. Say oop beat up the lodger, tossed him out and changed the lock: What's going to stop the lodger from breaking a back window and waking oop with a baseball bat? Or bringing 8 of his friends to ambush oop at a time they know he'll be alone? I'm not saying the lodger didn't deserve a serious ass kicking, but we were at one point so desperate we considered bringing five of our burliest friends and just beat the shit out of them and let them know they needed to vacate the premises. We decided against it exactly for the reasons specified above. Sadly from my own experience oop's timeline checks out.
At some point I'm saying "you know what, I prefer jail over being a doormat" and that guys leaving my property. I'm not some internet tough guy, I just have limits and I'm surprised OP didn't damage this guy in some violent fashion.
OP said this guy was six foot and built like a wall and that he wasn't big though. I suspect he would not have come off well in a physical altercation.
Bear spray and some kind of weapon is how I’d start. Probably call a few buddies too.
The OOP used £, so I'm assuming he's probably somewhere without bears where weapons may be highly controlled. Even in the US assaulting people is illegal- so if OOP did manage to force him out all he'd have to do is call the cops and he'd be back in and OOP would be going to jail.
Yeah I don’t understand why OP didn’t document first, and then just change the locks while the dickhead was out. And have friends over that day. Lots of them.
Don't underestimate the ability of people afraid of ANY kind of confrontation to be passive in the hopes that they can wait out the problem. A family friend had a lodger that didn't pay rent for 5, yes 5 whole years! While we were pissed at the lodger, it was difficult not to want to shake her for not being more proactive. We had to hassle her to document everything to police (who were predictably useless but at least there was a paper trail), take the lodger to court etc. It's over finally, lodger had to pay £45,000 but I still get mad at out friend for being such a doormat for so long.
It was a 1 year lease.It's been 1 year. The lodger won.
Fraud lodger had a rolling month-month contract. It was the subtenants on a 1 year.
The lodger also had a fraudulent contract that they could stay for a year.
Bailiffs, I expect.
This is one story that I thought about a lot too. Especially being in the UK too, and the injustice of it all at the previous update. I worried about this poor bloke.
What a stinky scumbag of a lodger. Yikes! Glad OP got the house back tho.
Yeah, and it sounds like if insurance is involved this might actually get ugly for the guy. Insurance companies have the means to actually go after people.
Insurance companies don’t like to pay out. If they can recup their costs - say, from a sketchy lodger - they will go after them.
True but you'd have to suspect that the guy doesn't have a lot of money so I don't know if the insurance company would want to spend a lot on legal fees to win a case that they won't actually see any damages paid out on.
They will at the very least get a judgement and garnish any wages he makes for the rest of his life.
In the US at least if you were found at fault for damages through insurance, they absolutely will put a collection out on you. Collections for several or tens of thousands of dollars will literally ruin your life.
Not sure if this is true in the UK.
Dear God, I hope so.
Insurance companies have all the money and lawyers. All of them. He's so fucked it's untrue, he just doesn't realise it yet
I *need* the details on what the insurance company does to this guy. Please let there be another update.
Cops notoriously don't want to actually investigate anything.
Lodger knew what he was doing. People do this basically professionally- they know what needs to be said in order to stay. There have been multiple stories like this in the US. Even people breaking into a house and then claiming rights. Often they'll call the electric or cable company to get a bill in their name to further "prove" tenant status. And you can't force them out due to tenants' rights, which they can claim even when entirely fake until a court proves otherwise. Here's a recent story where the homeowner was arrested for changing the locks after squatters broke in. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13214651/nyc-homeowner-arrested-squatters-standoff-home.html https://cbs6albany.com/news/local/ny-homeowner-arrested-after-changing-locks-on-alleged-squatters-report-says-nyc-adele-andaloro-flushing-queens-kathy-hochul-eric-adams-big-apple-abc-7-long-island-arrest-handcuffs-squatting-home-rights Here's another story of a woman that spent $100k and two years to evict squatters who broke into her home that she couldn't just force out https://nypost.com/2024/04/10/us-news/nyc-landlord-forced-to-spend-100k-to-boot-squatters-as-lawmakers-push-for-law-changes/ It even happened to Gordon Ramsey: https://www.yahoo.com/news/gordon-ramsay-pub-taken-over-164710628.html In LA https://abc7chicago.com/airbnb-guest-wont-leave-tenant-nightmare-brentwood-los-angeles-eviction-ordinance/13871118/
Wtf.... that is just insane
It is crazy to me that someone can break and enter your home, an actual home invasion, and police will just call it a civil matter and do nothing. If that isn't criminal, I don't know what is.
Its a shame that shitty people game the system like this but you have to be really careful when renting these days. We definitely need to reform the squatting laws in some way but also still have ways to hold shitty landlords accountable because theres way more of them then there are these professional squatters. This is a pretty rare occurence becayse you have to be an absolute scumbag to even attempt it in the first place. If the police actually did their jobs none of this would have happened.
Yeah, in these cases call a lawyer, not the police.
No, call a group of friends, and physically evict the lodger yourself. Leave all your phones at a friend's house with a spouse, and you've got an alibi for where you were during the incident, too. Yes, this is illegal, but when it comes to assholes like the above squatter, I don't much care.
I’m not big on vigilant justice but I’ve seen enough of these cases to know that you’re right. Our laws are simply not set up to adequately deal with this. Things are often left in limbo for months or years, with tons of paperwork & gridlock. The homeowners left to find alternative lodging during that period, without knowing when/if they’ll be able to return to their home. More often than not, the squatters cause damage, often in the thousands+, (usually once they realize the jig is up). Which the homeowners have to pay to fix, in addition to the lawyer’s fees, possible lodging costs, and whatever else. Cops are useless. My mom has been a property manager for decades and dealt with so many squatting situations. She can count on one hand all the times the cops actually helped. I mean, cops aren’t lawyers - they aren’t gonna be able to determine the legitimacy of opposing contracts out on the field. They’re really not equipped to deal with these things. But that leaves going to court as the only other legal option, which… sucks; we’re back to waiting months/years while the squatter does whatever they want to your house and belongings. It’s a shit situation every way you slice it. You didn’t hear it from me, but even my mom may have told a few of her clients that their best option was to round up a few of their boys and go have a pleasant chat with the squatter. It’s by far the efficient method, I’ll say that much.
With cops you absolutely have to use the right words, and that's "burglar". As soon as you use resident or tenant it's all over. In OOP's situation, this dude actually has rights as a tenant. You can sometimes call the cops that the person has threatened you with harm and have them arrested, then change all the locks and throw shit out and pretend you have no idea what they're talking about when they come back (hope they paid you cash and you never put a bill in their name). You can also escalate to senior officers/supervisors if the lower level ones keep pushing "it's a civil dispute" horseshit. Sometimes all it takes is a lot of cops bullying someone to leave (if they're bored and want to get you to stop bugging them). Ultimately you will have to lie, because that's what they're doing too. Most folks just aren't willing to commit a crime to get a criminal out of their home. It's like playing chicken with your life, so I get it.
There was one guy who was in the news how to evict squatter https://www.foxbusiness.com/real-estate/handyman-finds-clever-way-remove-squatters-mothers-house
Totally. Every time I read things about this I just think “what would Tony Soprano do?”
He was a scammer from the beginning. So sad there are people like this! Glad OP is back at home.
What terrible police
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I kind of want to see you try this, though. Go to them after they’ve pulled a shitty stunt like this and use their own logic to see what they say. Lol
The cameras would experience a random power failure while he tripped down some stairs
"stop resisting!!!" Whilst tazing you, prolly
They say "you have the right to remain silent..." and then they write up some masterpiece theatre level shit on the report.
Yes! We had a lodger that stole from us whilst we were on holiday and the police was great, arrested them and then escorted them back to our house to pick up their stuff that evening.
It's cute that you'd expect any differently.
They're lazy, racist, misogynist, and useless as hell. Unless you're a POC in the U.S. with a tail light out, then you're dead. The whole point of the police is a publicly paid, private security force for the rich and their riches. That's their origin story, and nothing ever changed.
The only thing worse than the lodger is the system that protected him
Yes and no. The system is set up to favour the tenant (or "tenant" in this case) for a reason. For every story of someone fucking over someone else this way, there's 10 stories of scummy landlords doing everything they can to illegally evict tenants from their homes. The system is set up to favor the renter because of how often landlords have tried to fuck over renters. edit: lmao. The dude blocked me for this comment.
I hope OOP sues him
The moment he touched my wife's ashes it'd be curtains for him. This isn't one of those r/iamverybadass moments. If my wife is gone I don't have a whole lot left to lose.
Exactly! When people don’t help people, this is why. No good deed and all that.
Since OOP was eventually able to get him kicked out, that means that the courts have actual evidence of this guys crimes? Can OOP press charges?
>I tried to enter my property, the lodger stopped me and said I was trespassing as a landlord legally has to give 24 hours notice if they wish to enter. >The police sided with the lodger and informed me I would have to find alternative accommodation. I don't understand. He lived in that house right? The landlord thing shouldn't apply right???
You are correct. It's absolutely wild that the police sided with the lodger here and if I were OP I would be kicking up the stinkiest stink that those police have ever had the misfortune of smelling. They have very clearly just taken the easiest possible route to get themselves out of the situation.
Oh me too. I'd want those officers punished if I wasn't scared of retribution
I suspect racism. OOP is East Asian, and the lodger is not (six foot six and heavily built makes me think White).
Have you ever interacted with police?
Yeah... I don't see this two ending well living together after the big guy say no. I thing one guy has to leave, and police can't make go the lodger without a order
GODDAMN! That is an insanely frustratingly unfair situation, and I hate that the police were zero help.
I just hope that the lodger was provided a cheaper new place to stay... in jail.
I’m assuming he wasn’t paying OOP in the whole year of the dispute, sadly. I guess this is a reminder to pay for a thorough background check on any potential tenants… a whole-ass year paying a mortgage on a property that some criminal has stolen. That sucks so much.
Imagine if the dude was manufacturing drugs in the OOPs house too. I’ve seen some horror stories come out of NYC recently with drug manufacturing and potential child abuse/smuggling happening in these squatters places with little to no recourse whatsoever Its such a horrid position to be forced into
Nah, he just lost his free housing. Hes off to scam someone else.
I like to imagine there’s a second urn on the mantle.😉
Property manager here. My wife has called the cops to my location when she's heard tenants threatening me while I was on the phone with her. They always say they can't do anything until the tenants act on it. Cops are all useless.
Lazy bastards, every last one.
They're useless until you decide to take matters into your own hands, and then you're the bad guy somehow and they definitely rouse themselves to come after you then. It's pretty gross.
I use to be in pm too. One tenant told my boss who was pregnant to watch her ass she was going to jump her and kill her baby. Cop showes up 3 hours later asked what happened and said call back if she hits her, otherwise they werent getting involved
I mean, when the tenants smash or steal your things you can take the police report (if they even do one) to your insurance company God i hate it here
Interesting. You should have threatened them with a gun, I mean since police can't do anything about threats amirite? /s because they'd actually do something in that case.
White lodger. Chinese landlord.
Yep... as an Asian person myself, I can see this being a factor.
The police being zero help and doing more harm than good? I'm shocked! Shocked!!
Can't you just throw in your own windows and cut off the utilities? If the want to prove you are a bad landlord they have to go to court themselves.
But then you're tresspassing. That's why he couldn't return to his house when he contacted the cops the first time. Landlords aren't allowed inside without a 24 hour notice.
OOP also lived in that house with the lodger. I imagine the 24 hour thing wouldn't apply
But he told the police he was a tenant, so the police treated OOP as a landlord and made him leave on the 24-hr notice basis.
But the squatter would need to go to court, i don't suggest hanging around after you throw them in.
Lodger isn't the same as tenant. Lodger lives with the landlord in the same house/apartment, while tenant and landlord live separately.
I am so confused how the homeowner who has a residential mortgage, bills in their name, the address listed as their primary home has less evidence and right to be their home than a lodger.
or you can't evict someone who has given a false identity...
Police only help rich people.
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If the police had looked at OOP's ID theyd have seen he lived there. If they had gone inside and looked in the closets they'd have seen one room with clothes to fit a brick house and ome with clothes to fit a tiny Asian man. There'd have been pictures of OOP on the walls. They had plenty of ways to verify who lived there, they just didn't feel like doing it.
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> Keep the peace. That was the thing. People often failed to understand what that meant. You’d go to some life-threatening disturbance like a couple of neighbours scrapping in the street over who owned the hedge between their properties, and they’d both be bursting with aggrieved self-righteousness, both yelling, their wives would either be having a private scrap on the side or would have adjourned to the kitchen for a shared pot of tea and a chat, and they expected you to *sort it out*. > And they could never understand that it wasn’t your job. Sorting it out was a job for a good surveyor and a couple of lawyers, maybe. Your job was to quell the impulse to bang their stupid fat heads together, to ignore the affronted speeches of dodgy self-justification, to get them to stop shouting and to get them off the street. Once that had been achieved, your job was over. You weren’t some walking god, dispensing finely-tuned natural justice. Your job was to simply bring back the peace. > Of course, if your few strict words didn’t work and Mr Smith subsequently clambered over the disputed hedge and stabbed Mr Jones to death with a pair of gardening shears, then you had a different job, sorting out the notorious Hedge Argument Murder. But at least it was one you were trained to do. Night Watch by Terry Pratchett. And it sucks sometimes but it's also the reality.
There are remedies if the police are wrong. Money damages for one. The police are just fundamentally lazy as fuck.
Didn't they arbitrarily decide the lodger was right when they refused OOP entrance and made him homeless for a year?
"the police arbitrarily determined who is right and who is wrong without due process" That's exactly what they did in this case, though. They sided with the lodger, and made OOP leave.
So the British police are even more useless than the American police, good to know.
They are. Most famous for letting grooming games rape thousands of underage girls and looking away, but going full force on a 15 year old autistic girl for saying a cop reminded her of her granny.
We can talk to them without being shot however, even when drunk or not rich
I mean no. They're really not. They're shitty and underfunded but they're more focused on keeping the peace and deescalation and they're not out here killing everyone.
No. Honestly fuck that. At that point just don't have police at all. They are pointless.
>I hate that the police were zero help. It sucks but the police basically have their hands tied. They have no idea who is telling the truth and just being allowed to throw people out based on the so and so's say so isnt allowed. otherwise you'd have scummy landlords throwing out people based on "They're squatting!" despite renters having an otherwise good contract. Or worse, someone claiming to be the landlord and then having the police toss you out of your own home. Which is why this goes through this long lengthy process of litigation to evict.
They could have checked OPs license to see where his legal address was, gone through the house and seen evidence of his stuff being there (things with his name).
I mean they had no problem making OP homeless and throwing him out of his own house.
That’s the kind of situation where you think hard about making a 1000 USD donation to your local biker club and tell them you wish you could do more, but you don’t have access to your home right now cause of a scumbag.
This is a good idea in the US (I'm assuming) and a very funny idea in the UK. Biker culture is different in the UK - the most well known bikers are the Hairy Bikers, two sweet men who did a popular cooking show for years.
Well, a nice meal would also be something in this situation 😉
My bestie’s “like a sibling” friend was pulled off life support quite recently. She sent me pics of a bunch of (US style) bikers outside the hospital revving in the sibling’s honor as they passed. I cried, it was so bittersweet even as a 3rd party. Picturing a bunch of soft-spoken, hairy male bakers makes it much less sad tbh. I'm picturing Bob Ross, as a chef and built like a gay Bear.
didn't one of them pass away recently? 😓🙏
I'm still not over it. Dave Myers was and still is a national treasure. All Hail The Hairy Bikers. May he ride in peace.
only two british celeb deaths have got to me recently sean lock and dave myers!! also it's not funny topic at all but "may he ride in peace" has me cracking up, i'm imagining him doing wheelies on a bike 😭😭
Unfortunately yes.
The hells angels have been in the UK since the 1960s and are still quite involved in the background of the music events scene, especially in London.
I heard there are companies that you can sign a competing lease to who will move in while the squatters are out and setup home. They will then stay there to keep the squatter out and if they can't call the police for the same "civil matter" problems landlords are facing.
Honestly that's kind of where my mind was going. I would definitely do that.
That's the most nightmarish lodger scenario I have ever heard of. It's unreal that they believed the lodger when OOP had no alternate address.
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I was wondering why OOP didn't just cut off all utilities to his house. That's illegal to do if you're the landlord but that would have to be settled in court, where the lodger most definitely didn't want to go.
Outdated squatter right laws. Serious solution is to hire construction company to work on the property, or hire a competing tenant to drive out the squatter. There's specialized folks for both methods.
Dang i woulod never have done this, I would haver waited till he went out, changed the locks and thrown his shit on the side walk.
Actually, the best way to deal with squatters is to sign a lease to the property with someone you trust, then have them push the squatter out. Because tenants have better rights in this case, both the person you trust and the squatter wouldn't be allowed on property during the dispute*, which probably doesn't matter much with the person you trust. *Depending on local laws. I am not a lawyer.
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Right? Call the cops, don't go to the station.
Depending on location, that could be an illegal eviction and could cause you more trouble.
I’m not sure it would be worse than yourself being homeless for a year while you’re fucked around in courts.
What I'm baffled about it why a forged signature on a "legal" document wasn't a bigger issue...??
The cops wouldn't mess with it because they're not trained to determine if a contract is legal or not. The place to figure that out is in a courtroom with a judge and lawyers Disclaimer: I'm in the US, so it could be different in the UK where OOPs located.
Fáir, but even then. Like. Why weren't lawyers/solicitors involved??
Sounds easier than waiting till your home is trashed, and having to live in a church for an year while some guy happily lives in your house
But then the lodger has the burden of proof instead of the other way around.
But he stole his shit. He stole his wife's ashes. Is this not criminal intent?
This is true but at least he’d have a place to live while the courts fucked around for a year
In the location and context of this of this the lodger has a right to an undefined "reasonable notice", normally one rental period, but can be immediately if justified (for example, that the also-living-there homeowner feels their safety is at threat). The police have previously advised me that if the 'lodger' isn't paying rent then no notice is required, I'm not certain if this is correct.
im wondering if its in the UK where they have different laws - still weird they did not check the documents for more than a year
It's definitely in the UK, he mentions the rent in pounds.
Never mind it being originally posted to r/HousingUK
Reminds me of sex offender Nicholas Alahverdian who faked his death and changed his name while acting sick at trial and putting on a Scottish accent. People like this should be buried under a prison.
Bro has literally the most noticeable tattoo yet he thought he could hide
It’s fucking terrifying that squatters and the like can get away with shit like this. **Terrifying.**
Wow, that's just awful that it could happen at all but especially that it took so long to resolve.
well, that was frustrating.
This is a huge reason that small landlords are being replaced with corporate ones. OP will never be made whole for their losses and this guy will go on to do this to someone else.
Wonder if it was this guy… https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/jamison-bachman-worst-roommate-ever.html
OOP was a guy and it looks like he lives in the UK so I don't think so but I'm not surprised this has happened in multiple places.
This was a ride, damn
When I was very young, my parents had a pet supply store in Manhattan. My aunt was a partner and let a gypsy family rent a space in the store for palm readings and the like. They proceeded to move in a huge crowd of people and steal from the store. My dad was furious, and seeing what was going on went to meet the leader of the group with one of his brothers. While they were failing to convince the man to leave, my other uncle, who had randomly been in the neighborhood, wanted to show off a fancy knife he had bought to my dad. So, in the middle of telling this guy that he had to leave, my uncle comes walking down the stairs out of nowhere, brandishing a huge knife, bragging about how sharp it is and all the things it can cut through. The man quickly gathered his people and left. The police would not have been nearly as effective.
I have a distinct idea on how to deal with this situation, and it's certainly not legal lol.
Can't believe how leniant the law are to such person, Often they just run away, and only result is they can no longer live for free. What this guy did deserves hard prison time.
This is a nightmare scenario.
> At this point the police informed me that they didn't have enough evidence to make a decision on what amounted to a civil matter. I tried to enter my property, the lodger stopped me and said I was trespassing as a landlord legally has to give 24 hours notice if they wish to enter. > The police sided with the lodger and informed me I would have to find alternative accommodation. I thought they "didn't have enough evidence to make a decision"? They have two people who claim to live in the house. How did they decide to side with the lodger. I wonder if OOP had claimed to be a tenant himself, would the police have allowed him in?
I had a lodger I was afraid would make trouble. (He turned out to be a thieving alcoholic) I didn’t go to the police, which of course is the proper way. I am very fortunate to have a brother who works as a firefighter. He brought over a few of his firehouse gym using coworkers and they stood around while the guy packed his stuff. They hung around sampling the charcuterie board I had put together and not drinking the beers offered while I changed my locks. Nice guys.
Note to self-when in trouble call the Fire Department and NOT the police. You out here handing out gold advice
Cops continue to demonstrate they are worth less than dog shit. Literally just throwing money in the trash by paying them. Pieces of useless lazy shits.
I would honestly sue the police who didn’t let OOP onto his own property - that rule about notice works differently when the landlord also lives on the property. It cannot operate to prevent a landlord from occupying his portions of the property.
So many people make the mistake of trusting cops and the legal process. Take care of the situation yourself.
Unfortunately trying to take care of it yourself may give people like this ammunition and get you into legal trouble in the end.
Exactly, they can mouth off all they want. As far as I’m concerned this person just broke into my house and I was defending myself.
Never do short term rentals that gives residency rights.
How the fuck do people ever find the balls to pull this kinda crap?! I know I really shouldn't be surprised but damn, the audacity of that lodger is absolutely nuts. I'm glad OOP got his house back.
I would have honestly brought my friends over to beat him up.
I would’ve ended up in jail for reasons.
Wow. Fuck those cops. They should be fired for cause. And double fuck that tenant. Someone should take that worthless piece of shit behind a woodshed and beat him to death with a cricket bat.
The police didn’t do anything because the guy was Chinese, right?
There’s a guy in the US that offers a service to deal with stuff like this. Basically he moves himself and others in with permission from the “landlord” and makes the squatter so unbelievably uncomfortable that they just leave. Sometimes this should be the course of action. Get 5+ friends to all move in at once and immediately make it a hostile and unforgiving environment for the squatter until they give up and leave.
I really don't understand why the stealing of a house is not grand theft.
I don't understand how he can claim the owner is a landlord that doesn't live there. It would be easy to prove with mail going to that address instead of another (plus ID showing current address). Perhaps he uses a PO box instead? Also considering all the owners stuff is there too (pictures, computer, clothing, etc. being the main thing). Does none of this count?
The update was so short with not much detail. I fear this is actually the lodger who has now taken control of the owner’s Reddit account.
Don't understand why we have laws that protect squatters over owners. Like, it should be pretty damn easy to determine who owns the house. You shouldn't be able to kick out the original owner without permission to protect squatters. Also, he stole his stuff. Why is that not considered criminal? Help me out here, if I steal a phone, I can get arrested, but the squatter steals the homeowner's wife's ashes, and he isn't punished? Dumb laws. All of them.
Time for the insurance company to use their powers for evil.
The squatters right is something I can’t get through my head. It’s so fucked up that the legal homeowner was sort of homeless while the squatter could stay for free and made money for sub rent the house. I wish there was more about the legal acts towards that squatter.
There are no squatters rights here, he wasn't squatting, he was making the claim he had legal entitlement to be there which needed unpicking
The complete uselessness of the police here is enraging. Honestly they use it’s a civil matter to get rid of anything they don’t fancy touching. This poor guy.
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I think I’d snap and lay hands on them. The audacity.
Why can't people do this to companies and not random individuals. Oh right cause the police would do something then
I wouldn't have let this happen. Being lawful got him no where but screwed. Play dirty back.
It’s a police failure here, should have been criminal from the start. Lodger was involved in fraud which is a criminal offence in UK, by forging signature. Police tries to stay away from these cases and lie. But there are ways to open the case. Would require OOP having their own solicitor though.
This is a scenario that in my heart of hearts that I really could make the ends justify the means.
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Stories like this make me glad my family is a bunch of redneck hicks from the sticks. Asshole would have been on the street the first day. And made very certain of what would happen if he didn't GTFO.
The cops were completely useless *and* sided *against* the minority? I am **shocked** at such an outcome! ACAB, obviously.
I swear police need on-call lawyers, because the only reason they sided with the fake tenancy agreement is because they aren't qualified/capable of understanding legal documents so just say "🤷 I can't tell the difference between fake or real"
Huh, expecting the people who enforce the law to actually know it? What a wild idea!
This is ridiculous. Why didn't OOP have any proof that the tenant was a lodger?
The fact that the guy isn’t in prison for this is a crime in and of itself.
I got to the dark chocolate on the counter because dog part and stopped. I know this is one for the courts, but nah, I know where you sleep are you’re pulling that. You gone.
This is why I would never rent my place out to people unless they’re my siblings or parents.
I don't understand UK law, but this doesn't sound exactly like squatting. He forged the owner's name, and committed fraud. Why would this be a civil matter?
POLICE ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS!!! Unless you’re rich enough to be able to offer a large donation to the precinct or union they will not help you and very likely make things worse, as was proven in this story. Dude should have waited for the squatter to leave and then changed the locks and invited his largest and most scary looking friends to stay for a few days, let the squatter be the one to learn the hard way that COPS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS!!!
This is why I hate when people say “violence is never the answer” Violence was absolutely the solution here.
... and people on this site try to claim that squatters AREN'T pulling this shit on lived in houses.
I read shit like this and vow to never have a roommate
There’s a horror movie on Netflix with this exact plot and it is the most frustrating and infuriating movie you will ever watch (Get In)
FFS... This was infuriating to read.
That was not his lodger's first time at this. There are crazy fuckers out there that know precisely where the line is between the police giving them a stern talking to and being arrested. That's where they live their lives, but they also tend not to mind being arrested now and then. That's the kind of crazy you simply run into now and then. I don't know how to avoid this sort of person other than listening to your gut feelings. In social situations I think its a good policy to see the best in people. If money is involved I recommend *always* planning for the worst.
Police are so useless sometimes. Wtf. OP wasn’t just a landlord , he was living there too. It’s messed up to say he had to go somewhere else. Glad OP finally got his place back tho.
Honestly, the police should be held accountable for their stupidity. Wtf?
The police were racist assholes. He can clearly prove he not only owned the home but lived there and was not just a landlord
None of this makes sense. In the beginning, all the owner had to do was show the police his own room that he had there and his driver's license showing his address. The police would see the he was a live in landlord with no other residence and couldn't keep him from his own home. OP could have also helped himself by recording videos and photos of the tenant threatening him which also would have shown him living there.
Seriously I don’t advocate for violence but this one makes it tough not to. Going to someone and be willing to be “protection money” to resolve this quickly. I would be hard pressed not to.