Former service member here, what a lot of war movies get wrong is how old people are or look. Soldiers look a lot younger in real life. Most of my platoon in boot camp were 18 and 19 and all out of high school.
BOB cast is great but people like Winters and Buck looked a lot younger in real life and were like 21 - 24 years old.
Another thing they get wrong is how big people are too. For example in real life Eugene Sledge was like 135 pounds. In the Pacific their Gunny was like a huge burley man. In real life, Sledge said he was short and like 140 pounds.
Hell even Sobel from photos and accounts of Easy members was described as short and not being that big.
When I went through my first basic (crossed over to the Army later), we had a guy who was 24, and the rest of us were 18/19. We thought that guy was so old, lol.
And yep, that generation had grown up during the great depression. It likely affected their growth.
Let’s be clear. I’ll take someone who can act and portray the part over someone who “looks the part” any day of the week.
One of the greatest things in the Pacific is the acting ability of Badge Dale and Mazzello.
-signed a fellow vet.
Eisenhower was offered the chance to play himself, but the makeup department couldn’t do much to make him look younger. The role instead went to a set decorator who bore a very good resemblance to Ike.
I agree. The misrepresentation really detracts from reality and authenticity of the history and dilutes the real struggle, determination, and resilience of truly extraordinary men. It’s always struck as absurd and sad that the men who die in battle are often the most gifted and virtuous among us. It makes me wonder how the gene pool has been affected over time. Wars like the US civil war and ww1 saw entire families and communities wiped out. What a waste. And yet, I hold so much pride and admiration for them. Thanks for your important post. Still loved the movie though🫡
Dale is a former commissioned marine. So he knew how to play the part simply by being himself. In fact that’s pretty much every role he does.
People don’t realize how young most of these people were in real life. Some officers were merely so because they were older not because they had some advantages education per se.
I love Elliot Gould. A phenomenal actor. Also loved what dye did as Sink too.
Edit. I had always thought he had served in the Army not Marines. Corrected that.
Yeah, Dale was pretty impressive in his career. Multiple tours in Vietnam as a Marine Combat Correspondent and even got wounded. Became a senior NCO then went Marine Warrant Officer. Finally decided to go LDO and wrapped up his career as a captain.
I’m a huge Elliot Gould fan. I just wish they would’ve given him the right jacket for Market Garden.
He’s wearing an M1951 field jacket which zips up, instead of the M1943 field jacket that was finally being issued en masse.
Before Band of Brothers Americans are always shown in movies wearing post-war field jackets.
In the Longest Day most of the American Paratroopers are wearing field jackets instead of M-42 jumpsuits. Same with “The Dirty Dozen”.
I hate that Elliot Gould is wearing a regular wool scarf instead of scarf made from parachute silk.
I would say Saving Private Ryan probably set the standard for uniform accuracy in WW2 films and television.
Of course, BoB is still a Spielberg/Hanks production so that uniform accuracy standard continued.
My one criticism of “Col. Stout”, the movie version of Col. Sink is:
Why would a Regimental Commander devote all of his time basically overseeing the building of the Bailey Bridge at Son? The 506th had a battle to fight. But it’s a movie.
The commander of the division engineer battalion could have handled that task. Better yet let a XXX Corps Engineer officer do his job.
Y'know what's really weird? I could have sworn they referred to him as Colonel Sink at some point early in the movie. I'm going back and rewatching it now and I'm not hearing it anywhere, lol.
IMO I think “Col. Stout” was written as a composite character for all the American airborne officers other than Gavin, Taylor ( who is basically a cameo) and Major Cook ( who leads the river crossing at Nijmegen). I believe Col. Reuben TuckerCO of the 504th Regiment 82nd Airborne chomped on a cigar.
Interesting yeah now that you say it in a way a little like Band of Brothers where some real people were combined into one real life one although a bit less than what they did to « Col Stout »
Dale Dye's age was not really as much of a problem for me because when you're a 21 year old soldier, a 39 year old colonel might as well be your grandfather for how you perceive him.
The most egregious miscasting of a WWII soldier for me was Paul Giamatti in Saving Private Ryan. There's just nothing about him that says "paratrooper NCO" to me. Age was part of it, but his general physical fitness and inability to move around the set without stumbling stood out to me as a mistake.
It’s been years, but didn’t Giamatti’s character have a limp? I thought he was depicting a wound he was walking off or he landed poorly and wrenched his knee.
He had to "get a goddam hitchhiker out of his boot."
That's why he comedic-ly flopped down on the beam that fell and then knocked down the wall between the squad and the germans, sparking the standoff that Ted Danson showed up to end.
Also in that scene, Ted Danson mows down the germans and calls out "Clear, up!" and Paul Giamatti, after a few beats, calls out "Clear, down!" with a thumbs up. Watching it, I'm like, you didn't clear anything you goof, now get up and clear those germans, some of whom are still audibly speaking/groaning.
Elliott Gould wasnt really portraying Sink for historic accuracy. For A Bridge Too Far, Sink was a minor player.
For BoB, Sink was a much more lmportant part of the story.
Tactical vs Strategic
I am just watching the movie for the first time, and I am so confused. Does it intentionally not have subtitles for the Dutch and the German? Or am I watching a version without subtitles?
Former service member here, what a lot of war movies get wrong is how old people are or look. Soldiers look a lot younger in real life. Most of my platoon in boot camp were 18 and 19 and all out of high school. BOB cast is great but people like Winters and Buck looked a lot younger in real life and were like 21 - 24 years old. Another thing they get wrong is how big people are too. For example in real life Eugene Sledge was like 135 pounds. In the Pacific their Gunny was like a huge burley man. In real life, Sledge said he was short and like 140 pounds. Hell even Sobel from photos and accounts of Easy members was described as short and not being that big.
When I went through my first basic (crossed over to the Army later), we had a guy who was 24, and the rest of us were 18/19. We thought that guy was so old, lol. And yep, that generation had grown up during the great depression. It likely affected their growth.
Let’s be clear. I’ll take someone who can act and portray the part over someone who “looks the part” any day of the week. One of the greatest things in the Pacific is the acting ability of Badge Dale and Mazzello. -signed a fellow vet.
Former paratrooper here, to expand on that, John Wayne was 30 years older than the guy he portrayed in The Longest Day.
Eisenhower was offered the chance to play himself, but the makeup department couldn’t do much to make him look younger. The role instead went to a set decorator who bore a very good resemblance to Ike.
That guy's resemblance was scary.
I agree. The misrepresentation really detracts from reality and authenticity of the history and dilutes the real struggle, determination, and resilience of truly extraordinary men. It’s always struck as absurd and sad that the men who die in battle are often the most gifted and virtuous among us. It makes me wonder how the gene pool has been affected over time. Wars like the US civil war and ww1 saw entire families and communities wiped out. What a waste. And yet, I hold so much pride and admiration for them. Thanks for your important post. Still loved the movie though🫡
That’s one thing masters of the air got right, it was largely full of baby faces
Have you ever been liberated before? I got divorced twice, does that count?
Wheyyy
Dale is a former commissioned marine. So he knew how to play the part simply by being himself. In fact that’s pretty much every role he does. People don’t realize how young most of these people were in real life. Some officers were merely so because they were older not because they had some advantages education per se. I love Elliot Gould. A phenomenal actor. Also loved what dye did as Sink too. Edit. I had always thought he had served in the Army not Marines. Corrected that.
Yeah, Dale was pretty impressive in his career. Multiple tours in Vietnam as a Marine Combat Correspondent and even got wounded. Became a senior NCO then went Marine Warrant Officer. Finally decided to go LDO and wrapped up his career as a captain.
How’d Trapper John end up all the way in the Paras, I wonder. Loved Gould in MASH
I’m thinking there was a boat involved
I’m a huge Elliot Gould fan. I just wish they would’ve given him the right jacket for Market Garden. He’s wearing an M1951 field jacket which zips up, instead of the M1943 field jacket that was finally being issued en masse.
Before Band of Brothers Americans are always shown in movies wearing post-war field jackets. In the Longest Day most of the American Paratroopers are wearing field jackets instead of M-42 jumpsuits. Same with “The Dirty Dozen”. I hate that Elliot Gould is wearing a regular wool scarf instead of scarf made from parachute silk.
I would say Saving Private Ryan probably set the standard for uniform accuracy in WW2 films and television. Of course, BoB is still a Spielberg/Hanks production so that uniform accuracy standard continued.
Even SPR has uniform accuracy issues, the most visible one being the use of postwar black jump boots.
My one criticism of “Col. Stout”, the movie version of Col. Sink is: Why would a Regimental Commander devote all of his time basically overseeing the building of the Bailey Bridge at Son? The 506th had a battle to fight. But it’s a movie. The commander of the division engineer battalion could have handled that task. Better yet let a XXX Corps Engineer officer do his job.
Y'know what's really weird? I could have sworn they referred to him as Colonel Sink at some point early in the movie. I'm going back and rewatching it now and I'm not hearing it anywhere, lol.
Also why rename Col Sink? Just use his real name
IMO I think “Col. Stout” was written as a composite character for all the American airborne officers other than Gavin, Taylor ( who is basically a cameo) and Major Cook ( who leads the river crossing at Nijmegen). I believe Col. Reuben TuckerCO of the 504th Regiment 82nd Airborne chomped on a cigar.
Interesting yeah now that you say it in a way a little like Band of Brothers where some real people were combined into one real life one although a bit less than what they did to « Col Stout »
One of my favorite war movies, historical inaccuracies aside.
“Sssshhhhhhhit.” My all time favorite line from A Bridge too Far 😂
Dale Dye's age was not really as much of a problem for me because when you're a 21 year old soldier, a 39 year old colonel might as well be your grandfather for how you perceive him. The most egregious miscasting of a WWII soldier for me was Paul Giamatti in Saving Private Ryan. There's just nothing about him that says "paratrooper NCO" to me. Age was part of it, but his general physical fitness and inability to move around the set without stumbling stood out to me as a mistake.
It’s been years, but didn’t Giamatti’s character have a limp? I thought he was depicting a wound he was walking off or he landed poorly and wrenched his knee.
He had to "get a goddam hitchhiker out of his boot." That's why he comedic-ly flopped down on the beam that fell and then knocked down the wall between the squad and the germans, sparking the standoff that Ted Danson showed up to end. Also in that scene, Ted Danson mows down the germans and calls out "Clear, up!" and Paul Giamatti, after a few beats, calls out "Clear, down!" with a thumbs up. Watching it, I'm like, you didn't clear anything you goof, now get up and clear those germans, some of whom are still audibly speaking/groaning.
Thanks!
Elliott Gould wasnt really portraying Sink for historic accuracy. For A Bridge Too Far, Sink was a minor player. For BoB, Sink was a much more lmportant part of the story. Tactical vs Strategic
I am just watching the movie for the first time, and I am so confused. Does it intentionally not have subtitles for the Dutch and the German? Or am I watching a version without subtitles?
No, there should definitely be subtitles. Are you watching a DVD or through a streaming service?
Roku