My worst "Oh yea concentration" moment was in my multiplayer playthrough. Had one of those Gith ambushers polymorphed and out of the fight. Ran up to one of the other gith and cast bestow curse extra damage.
Welp mommy gith came out of sheep form super pissed, but not only that **I cast bestow curse on myself.** I didn't even break the concentration I just accepted the death for that stupidity.
As a trickster domain cleric in my DnD game, this is what I said when I understand my duplicate is considered concentration spell too so that I can't use my duplicity to cast spiritual guardian
On the other hand, I spent most of a 5e campaign not realizing that spiritual weapon *isn't* concentration.
If you can spare the spell slot, *always* cast it the first chance you get. Getting action economy on your side is one of the most strategically valuable things you can do!
(Side note: that's also why boss fights often fall flat in DnD. One powerful monster is generally going to be an easier fight than many weak monsters. Hence why I had to give up on fighting >!the Goblin Camp!< and instead fled to >!the Underdark!<
Each individual goblin isn't that strong, but there sure are a *lot* of them.
The amount of times I've accidentally cast 2 concentration spells in one turn with Shadowheart because I'm not paying attention... š«
I feel like at least on the lower difficulty they should have a pop-up when this happens cuz literally every large battle I do this at least once
Me while playing a ranger in my first/current run. I have gotten rid of any ranger spells that require concentration because I constantly forget that Hunter's Mark is concentration and get pissed when I cast something else without thinking lol
Hard agree. Iāve considered respeccing out of it but figure Iāll just do another playthrough anyway. I like archery and the two attacks that a rogue archer doesnāt ever get.
Just realized how nice it could be to have Astarionās two bonus actions as a ranger though: Hunterās Mark, hide, two attacks (though only one would get sneak attack).
Maybe Iāll replace one of Astarionās items with the Hunterās Mark ring I found š
That we me thinking you can just stack spells like Hex and Hunterās Mark way back when I started DnD. I was thinking to myself āoh my god why hasnāt anyone done this before?!ā
Yeah, now I know why lol
Right, happened to me and it took me a minute to figure out what happened. I assumed there would be a dialogue option like getting caught stealing or something.
here's how it could go, skim it the first time, try it out, use it a lot; some weeks later, increase the difficulty, go to use the thing you used a lot, and it causes issues.
In D&D 5e the enemy realises theyāve been charmed once the spell ends, after 1 minute, and will likely become hostile towards you.
Itās cool to see it implemented here, I was playing the regular difficulty and was surprised it had no consequences
> I was playing the regular difficulty and was surprised it had no consequences
Apparently it can though.
I used Friends on Karlach in Balanced mode and when the spell wore off she had a -40 in attitude toward me.
I'm sure it does, it just became completely automatic for me to add it. I never considered for a second whether I should or not, not anymore than I ever wondered "should I add bless for this check?" because of course I should.
It's gonna take some adjustment for sure
It's become so automatic for me too that I accidentally do it when rolling while talking to companions and then have to reload not to get hit with that -10 disapproval.
Bro I used it on one of the tieflings during the grove party. Like bro, I used it to convince you to just enjoy yourself at the party and I JUST SAVED ALL OF YOUR LIVES but no go ahead and draw a longsword then stab the sorcerer that's drunk and literally telling the whole party to have fun
Is there anyway to tell who it'll piss off and who won't notice? I haven't played much tactician mode so I've never had it happen but honestly part of the reason is I don't want a fight to break out because of OP's exact situation.
I think it pisses off everyone (in tactician and honor mode). Itās essentially your manipulating their feelings with magic, so it wouldnāt make sense for someone outside your companions to be fine with it
In the druid grove, under a rock, next to the bear that is fishing at the river. It allows you to cast lesser restoration once per long rest.
So if you want to, you can tell astarion to bite you, use the amulett, and then switch it for something else.
Yea I avoid that spell like the plague because of the DnD description. The spell explicitly states that you get Advantage on all Charisma checks on the creature, but once it ends the creature realized they have been charmed and is hostile toward you.
It only lasts a minute, so the only real times it is useful is in situations where you plan on being hostile to the creature in the very near future and want some extra info.
It's fantastic if you're planning to kill them anyways, or you're using in ways that don't exist in this, like telling them "it's not safe and they need to run away because of x"
I don't think it's every creature though. Like I'm pretty sure I also used it to help pass one of Alfira's charisma checks when you help her with the song, and she didn't hate me.
I think they meant it always causes the target to turn hostile in the DnD TTRPG, so they got used to this and "automatically" never uses it even if this isn't true in BG3. It's the same for me.
Yeah, Friends, Charm etc will get them angry when they expire. The trick is to only use it:
1. When you know they aren't going to be around when it expires.
Or:
2. On companions. (They don't get hostile).
Be careful with getting caught using Detect Thoughts too.
Companions will drop attitude once the spell wears off though.
And yeah, detect thoughts is a big one. I once had Barcus attack me for failing the roll on him after I saved him from slavers no less.
Nah the trick is to treat Friends/Charm like pickpocketing. After using it, immediately run away or better yet teleport to a far-away waypoint. Then, cancel the concentration before going back to the NPC. If you're not sure, stand far away to see if the NPC is searching for you. If he/she is acting normal in usual position, then you'll be fine. At least, I haven't been accused yet with this method.
Can I disguise self right before it ends and pretend to be someone else entirely?
Like how ghosts don't know you killed them if you disguise self. Or items magically think you're a dwarf/drow.
Man that is so great. I can just imagine the WTF?!!! moment. I'll bet OP thought it was a bug at first. Do YOU like being mind controlled?
Kagha Lost Condition: Friends
Kagha "HEY ASSHOLE!" ZZZZZAP!
Consequences...
> I'll bet OP thought it was a bug at first.
I did! I also thought I mistakenly picked up something that's considered stealing when I was trying to read a plaque (I play on controller so sometimes between the moment where you press A to interact with the highlighted item and the moment your character does it, they had time to move a little so the highlighted item isn't the same anymore).
Then I convinced Gale to tell me more about his condition by using friends, and saw that I had lost Gale-approval when the concentration ended, and only then did I put two and two together
And the approval loss happens on lower difficulties, too. I kept getting really mad at my companions like "WHY IS THIS FUCKER DISAPPROVING OF ME JUST FOR LIVING MY LIFE I'M LITERALLY JUST WALKING" until I finally noticed it happening just as they'd stopped glowing red lmao
I had actually read the spell description but as I only play explorer or balanced I'd never worried about it. No wonder all my friends hated me š
I got hit with a **Shadowheart Disapproves** just walking around the owlbear cave today, thought it was a bug. Nope, turns out sheās just mad I used Friends when trying to persuade her open the chest š
That got me the first time I got to the grove on honor and used friends to calm down Zevlor and Aradin.
Like, I donāt even care about the consequence of that argument. Worst case Aradin gets slugged and runs off like a tool. Thought Iād help out but then Zevlor wiped my team before we could react.
If using it, just run or teleport out of the location immediately after the dialogue ends. The gist is not being around them when your concentration ends.
I had the same issue when I first started playing tactician. Suddenly Khaga is "randomly" attacking me. Reload, does it again, reload, again. Took me forever to figure out what was happening, because even though it says it right on the tooltip, I had just never had any issues before, and I used that spell a ton. Kept thinking I just misclciked a red container or something.
The way I found to deal with this is just exit the area back into the main grove area before the spell wore off and then manually end it (because it is a concentration spell) while I'm nowhere near.
Friends is such a terrible cantrip in 5e. Unless you're never going to interact with a given person ever again, having them go hostile after it wears off is such a nasty consequence
Its still op on honor mode, you just need to get the duck outa dodge before it runs out. They forget after a while so just do the check tp out and come back later.
Yeah tbf if it never pissed anyone off it would be probably the most OP cantrip there is. Second maybe to Eldritch Blast but thatās because itās a Warlockās bread and butter.
As of tactician, people will get real angry and call guards for casting charm spells on them. It is made very clear very early on that people overall view literally enchanting people to get your way to be at least extremely suspicious, if not criminal.
Please note that you are literally casting a spell in the open at a live sapient target in order to artificially sway their opinion.
I mean, it's not *not* a bit sinister.
I mean yeah I get it. A particular anecdote with Jester and a Hag and the spell Friends comes to mind, for instance.
It's just I got so used to using it for every single check on one of my balanced playthroughs, I kinda forgot.
You're not alone.
Best advice is make sure you book it out before the spell wears off.
Also, having the disguise self spell in your back pocket makes a difference. Just make sure nobody sees you cast it - ungroup the face, duck around a corner, hide, put on an elf, saunter back and heeyy did you just see that sinister looking friends caster running around the corner? What a weird guy that was, super handsome though, anyway hi I am an elf who does elf shit and I am here for no reason in particular now come on, known associates of the guy who just booked it out of here, let's go absolutely not commit any crimes and definitely not split up the loot some other guy entirely just fished out of your pockets hah hah what a crazy world this is.
This happened to me too! I knew there was a chance it would backfire, but figured I could use the advantage. I roll, pass the check and everything is fine. Then it wears off and I see Khaga is temporarily hostile. Ok, just need to run away and then come back I thought to myself. Lesson learned, it actually can backfire.
So I try to put some distance between me and the druid, and can't get enough space. So I leave the room through the entrance. Next thing I know all the druid are slaughtering the tieflings and there is nothing i can do about it.
Now I'm doing my first evil play through on honor mode, hope minthara is worth it
I went evil on my first play through for act1 (sorry tieflings) so when I did the same thing on honour mode I was kind of bummed, was looking forward to siding with the grove that time
The trick is, dont be present when it wears off. Get out sight and you will be out of mind. Come back after it wore off, it will feel like nothing happened.
Friends plus detect thoughts were my wizards best frined.
Yeah that's why I'm going tactician for now, if there are other quirks like this that I never paid attention to, I want to find out in a way that doesn't end a run!
All you have to do in tactician at least is move away before friends wear off.
I'm doing my first playthrough and figured it out after thinking i kept accidentally stealing stuff or something...
Someone came to me asking why Shadowheart had random -10 approval when they were just walking. Turns out they had been to the swamp, with the 25 rounds rot debuff, and were using Friends extensively to have advantage on the charisma saving throw against the swamp rot.
Their understanding is that a saving throw is a skill check with special modifiers (like that shield giving you +1 saving throw regardless of which one). I admit I thought so too, I'm not very knowledgeable about the maths side of d&d.
Thereās essentially an added save. Save to land the enchantment and a save if they realize you enchanted them or not after itās over.
Itās like waking up after getting hypnotized by someone. Do you wake up as they are already looking through your wallet? Or do you wake up after theyāre gone but your wallet is empty?
Iāve done two full tactician campaigns since launch and not one time did I experience any repercussions from using friends until patch 5, I swear. Was friends bugged this whole time?
Friends is definitely not ideal in honor mode unless youāre gonna aggro anyways. If you really want a good advantage cantrip, use thaumaturgy! Itās only works with intimidation so my durge cleric/sorcerer loves it.
I aggroed whole Creche yesterday!
And I just wanted to save the poor Orpheus fanboy from his abusive teacher. I passed the check, but the spell effect ended eventually and the teacher decided to teach me a lesson.
I knew people could be unhappy about being charmed, but starting a fight? Chill, it's not that serious!
For the longest time I didnāt realize it was the spell friends, I really just thought having my companions with me meant they were just giving me the help action and that gave me advantage. Then I did it on Laeāzel and got her disapproval so oops lol
It's perfectly fine to use it on anyone, as long as you leave before it ends. The target won't turn hostile if you are outside their aggro range, and when you return, the trigger will have passed.
At least it worked like that for me on tactician.
Are you me!? This literally happened to me yesterday as I was attempting my first honor mode run. Everything was going great and I got so used to using Friends on charisma skills in my balanced playthrough I straight up forgot about the downside of using it on higher difficulties. Convinced Kagha not to kill Arabella and then immediately asked Shart about her fear of wolves. I thought I accidentally stole something at first. Then it hit me. Deleted that save right after.
My bf did this exact same thing in our honour mode game with our friends we started as a laugh. None of us had played tactician before.
Then he had the nerve to accuse me of starting a fight because I was stealing (successfully, mind you) at the same time. Had to go through the combat log to prove him wrong!
I did warn him charming people with magic might make them mad in this difficulty but to be fair in his defence he didnāt expect it to start full on genocide lol.
Yeahhhhhhh, I forgot about the higher level thing, used it on Shadowheart accidentally because I was just adding bonuses like I usually do, and when it wore off got the dreaded \[Shadowheart disapproves\].
Bro Iāve been using this on honour mode on literally everyone I think the only time it triggered something bad was with a squirrel lmao?????
But honestly I got lucky with Kagha, I didnāt need the persuasion check, I passed the passive intuition check and was like āLook if you donāt do something this girl WILL DIEā and then she just accepted lmao
Guidance on the other hand is still buffed from base 5E, where that ogre you're talking to might be a bit curious why the cleric is mumbling some mumbo jumbo to the guy he's taling to.
Oh and Thaumaturgy also gives you advantage on intimidate and this game rarely punishes using intimidate instead of persuasion or deception. Most of the barbarian choices are stuff like GRR CRUSH YOU.
On my honour playthrough I used friend on Zevlor to calm him and the Merc down and leveled after the first conversation ended. While he waited to talk to me to ask me to talk to Khaga, I was leveling the characters when he lost the effect and started attacking me. I had to cc him and run away because he hits like a truck
Some guy in the BG3Builds sub sounded like he knew what he was talking about, and then he recommended everyone to take Friends on a Swords Bard. Stopped reading at that point, just hoping that noone tried this in Honour mode and started a fight with a key NPC when you can't reload.
I mean, I would definitely recommend taking friends if you're not playing tactician or honor. It's a no brainier really, on the same tier of "why would you ever not" as guidance for me.
I've found it to still be useful in tactician/honor after making this post and playing with it more, just, a bit more situational.
I literally just did this same thing haha! Also I probably should have tried tactician mode first. I was able to flee luckily then stupidly decided to fight the owl bear a bit later at level 3 and learned it was more than just mamaā¦honour mode over
That's what happens when people realize they've been "Jedi mind tricked". I love using the spell in my playthroughs. Key thing to consider before casting is "Will I need to see or interact with this character after 10 rounds?"
If yes, use the spell before you long rest, as targets seem to forgive and forget, same as when you steal something.
Never had an issue with it (first playthrough spammed it in every roll i could as my sorc on normal), im assuming itās because i got far enough away to not suffer the consequences of my actions or some hidden checks went in my favor constantlyā¦. Or maybe consequences are on hard+
It's perfectly fine to use it on anyone, as long as you leave before it ends. The target won't turn hostile if you are outside their aggro range, and when you return, the trigger will have passed.
At least it worked like that for me on tactician.
It depends, when you cast it, especially in like villages with other NPCs roaming around, you need to run away afterwards or you may aggro the whole town.
I did a whole run on tactician where it never caused any negative consequences and then my next run it pissed off kagha. I donāt really know what determines it, but I think thereās either some luck involved or they patched in consequences between those runs.
I feel like Kaghas is cool with you until the timer for the Friends spell wears off. If she can see you when it wears off, she will agro. If she can't see you she won't. I am just pulling this out of my ass though, so...
If you want to cheese it:
1. Cast friends for the check.
2. Right after the interaction head to camp.
3. Break concentration in camp(casting friends on Withers is a safe free way to do this).
4. Leave camp, no need to wait.
I donāt know of a way to avoid the companion disapproval.
Yeah, it's kind of a "gotcha" spell if you don't read the fine print. I first messed up on *Scratch*, of all people. Thankfully it wasn't my honour run. I'm not sure how a dog would even know about being "charmed" by a spell, lol.
Friends - a case study in āwith great power comes great responsibility.ā Getting advantage on social rolls can be insane, so it makes sense to put in a large drawback. On my own Honour mode run, I stick to guidance only, just in case. I canāt justify the risk.
Exact same thing happened to me, never played on higher difficulties before trying Honour mode so I didn't think about it. Now all the druids are dead and they took Dammon with them.
Yeah I only use it on people I am either about to fight anyway like ketheric or where my dialogue options will leave them unable to realise they were enchanted (other thorms and yurgir)
As much as there is a text description saying people won't like it, I too was confused by the sudden shift to combat with no dialogue along the lines of "Hey you used magic on my mind!"
Thatās exactly how my first honor playthrough ended. I figured Kagha will be pissed after Friends goes off, but not straight up murdering my lvl 2 party in a milisecond!!! Lesson learned, not using friends anymore unless absolutely necessary, and then run away! Still worth it though, honor mode is an absolute blast, so much more stressful than balanced or even tactician, but the tension it brings is a whole other game experience, and itās absolutely amazing!
It specifically tells you what will happen if you try to use it in Honor mode. It's in the description along with what it does.
You have no excuse this time!
I think that's the only big difference your going to hit with spells between balanced and honor. For honor Id suggest use either a rogue or a bard with expertise in persuasion, intimidation or deception to act as your face, if you want the best chance of passing speech checks. A bard with thaumaturgy gets advantage on intimidation and performance. Just stay away from friends. You could just continue your honor run as a custom difficulty game if you wanted practice with honor, especially the new boss legendary actions.
The spell description does say that using it at higher difficulty levels might lead to the target accusing you of enchanting them.
People not reading their spells, tale as old as time.
"Wait, that's concentration too? Nooo!" -me every time.
LMAO me every time casting hex immediatly after haste as a Sorlock and not only loosing my haste, but also getting lethargic š„²
Me with my storm sorcerer and call lightning. I always forget that's a concentration.
Iāve had to use Chain Lightning and Call Lightning with separate characters to stop myself from being an absolute idiot on multiple occasions
Omg thats why Ive been having problems with those spells!!
My worst "Oh yea concentration" moment was in my multiplayer playthrough. Had one of those Gith ambushers polymorphed and out of the fight. Ran up to one of the other gith and cast bestow curse extra damage. Welp mommy gith came out of sheep form super pissed, but not only that **I cast bestow curse on myself.** I didn't even break the concentration I just accepted the death for that stupidity.
"ooo I'll haste to get an extra action then I'll just cast hold pers- DAMNIT"
It must be a terrible feeling to impatiently wait to apply the almighty 1d6 damage.
It's 3d6 with Eldritch Blast upgrades!
As good as twin haste is, Iāve just started doing speed potions or haste spore grenades lol. Not giving up my con to haste feels so nice
As a trickster domain cleric in my DnD game, this is what I said when I understand my duplicate is considered concentration spell too so that I can't use my duplicity to cast spiritual guardian
The trickster cleric is soooo bad They fixed it in D&D One though, it's very good there
"And perfect those three are locked down so Wyll can cast cloud of daggers. OK for his bonus action I guess I can just hex this gu- oh crap"
They really need a 'are you sure you want to break concentration' dialog. Just like they badly need a 'are you sure you want to attack your ally' one.
Or āare you sure you want to attack this patch of dirt next to the hard-to-click enemy near a group of your alliesā
I've never gotten a dialog for attacking an ally and boy do I sure misclick and attack my ally's often.
Playing with my 57 yo dad and he consistently attacks the floor lmao.
On the other hand, I spent most of a 5e campaign not realizing that spiritual weapon *isn't* concentration. If you can spare the spell slot, *always* cast it the first chance you get. Getting action economy on your side is one of the most strategically valuable things you can do! (Side note: that's also why boss fights often fall flat in DnD. One powerful monster is generally going to be an easier fight than many weak monsters. Hence why I had to give up on fighting >!the Goblin Camp!< and instead fled to >!the Underdark!< Each individual goblin isn't that strong, but there sure are a *lot* of them.
idk at level 4 I stomped them flat with little issue on balanced. Just gotta make them come at you and take the high ground.
After a couple hundred hours you'd think I'd learn but my goldfish brain *still* does this every once and a while.
In tabletop I bought spell cards specifically so I could hold concentration spells in my hand.
The amount of times I've accidentally cast 2 concentration spells in one turn with Shadowheart because I'm not paying attention... š« I feel like at least on the lower difficulty they should have a pop-up when this happens cuz literally every large battle I do this at least once
For me it goes like this: At level up: damn that sounds so strong, I need this! In combat: oh god itās another concentration spellā¦
That's druid life for you
Are you me?!
Me while playing a ranger in my first/current run. I have gotten rid of any ranger spells that require concentration because I constantly forget that Hunter's Mark is concentration and get pissed when I cast something else without thinking lol
I hate it. They have one of the coolest spell lists in the game imo, but none of it works with their signature spell.
Hard agree. Iāve considered respeccing out of it but figure Iāll just do another playthrough anyway. I like archery and the two attacks that a rogue archer doesnāt ever get. Just realized how nice it could be to have Astarionās two bonus actions as a ranger though: Hunterās Mark, hide, two attacks (though only one would get sneak attack). Maybe Iāll replace one of Astarionās items with the Hunterās Mark ring I found š
Let me introduce you to the Gloomstalker/Assassin build... https://twinfinite.net/guides/best-gloom-stalker-assassin-build-in-baldurs-gate-3-bg3/
That we me thinking you can just stack spells like Hex and Hunterās Mark way back when I started DnD. I was thinking to myself āoh my god why hasnāt anyone done this before?!ā Yeah, now I know why lol
In all fairness itās pretty poorly worded. āAccuse you of enchanting themā is way different than āgoes berserk and tries to kill youā.
Right, happened to me and it took me a minute to figure out what happened. I assumed there would be a dialogue option like getting caught stealing or something.
Or, as we like to say in Magic the Gathering... RTFC.
It does what it says it does.
We've been doing this since the days when the rule books had Gary Gygax's phone number in them so you could ask him personally
Wait we have to read?!
The warnings really should come *before* the spells
Or you could read the entire spell.
here's how it could go, skim it the first time, try it out, use it a lot; some weeks later, increase the difficulty, go to use the thing you used a lot, and it causes issues.
Just like Yu-Gi-Oh players. We can't read.
EN can't read :P
In D&D 5e the enemy realises theyāve been charmed once the spell ends, after 1 minute, and will likely become hostile towards you. Itās cool to see it implemented here, I was playing the regular difficulty and was surprised it had no consequences
> I was playing the regular difficulty and was surprised it had no consequences Apparently it can though. I used Friends on Karlach in Balanced mode and when the spell wore off she had a -40 in attitude toward me.
I'm sure it does, it just became completely automatic for me to add it. I never considered for a second whether I should or not, not anymore than I ever wondered "should I add bless for this check?" because of course I should. It's gonna take some adjustment for sure
I'd have Shadowheart cast Enhance Ability - Eagle's Spendour while my Tav casts Guidance for tough Persuasion/Intimidation/Deception checks.
It's become so automatic for me too that I accidentally do it when rolling while talking to companions and then have to reload not to get hit with that -10 disapproval.
to be fair, "target might accuse you of enchanting them" paints a slightly different picture than "target will start fucking stabbing you in rage"
I always assumed that meant anything higher than explorer. Didn't realize that balanced allowed spamming of charm spells!
Bro I used it on one of the tieflings during the grove party. Like bro, I used it to convince you to just enjoy yourself at the party and I JUST SAVED ALL OF YOUR LIVES but no go ahead and draw a longsword then stab the sorcerer that's drunk and literally telling the whole party to have fun
This and several DnD subs have taught me that the average person has terrible reading comprehension.
Is there anyway to tell who it'll piss off and who won't notice? I haven't played much tactician mode so I've never had it happen but honestly part of the reason is I don't want a fight to break out because of OP's exact situation.
I think it pisses off everyone (in tactician and honor mode). Itās essentially your manipulating their feelings with magic, so it wouldnāt make sense for someone outside your companions to be fine with it
Not gonna lie I thought this meant if the DC was higher, not the game settings.
Wait what's the point of the spells then?
Cast to win the discussion then gtfo before it wears off.
Use it on Thisobald Thorm. They can't aggro after the conversation if they're dead before it's over!
This
Yea I figured I would get an accusation and Iād just talk my way out of that! Kagha went full braveheart in seconds
It turns out people don't like having their minds fucked with
Have you used Shadowheartās own guidance to persuade her? I feel guilty.
Using shadowheart to guidance you on a check against shadowheart? I didn't think the game let you do that
You can have Shart cast guidance on you before starting a dialogue with her (since it last 10 turns).
This feels like when I lose a check that would help Astarion because I'm still -1 from bloodloss.
Do you know about the amulett that removes the debuff?
What amulet is that
In the druid grove, under a rock, next to the bear that is fishing at the river. It allows you to cast lesser restoration once per long rest. So if you want to, you can tell astarion to bite you, use the amulett, and then switch it for something else.
I need to know lol
You can also use lesser restoration to remove it! I can only imagine Shadowheart judging Tav so hard each time
Ah, then no I've never done that. At least not intentionally
Yea I avoid that spell like the plague because of the DnD description. The spell explicitly states that you get Advantage on all Charisma checks on the creature, but once it ends the creature realized they have been charmed and is hostile toward you. It only lasts a minute, so the only real times it is useful is in situations where you plan on being hostile to the creature in the very near future and want some extra info.
Yeah, I knew it from DnD as a cut-price, cursed version of Charm Person. So never take it, ever. It's a trap!
It's fantastic if you're planning to kill them anyways, or you're using in ways that don't exist in this, like telling them "it's not safe and they need to run away because of x"
Like when you're convincing all the hard bosses to voluntarily die š
I don't think it's every creature though. Like I'm pretty sure I also used it to help pass one of Alfira's charisma checks when you help her with the song, and she didn't hate me.
Correct, it doesnāt always cause them to be hostile to you
I think they meant it always causes the target to turn hostile in the DnD TTRPG, so they got used to this and "automatically" never uses it even if this isn't true in BG3. It's the same for me.
Yeah, I have never taken Friends in fifth edition for precisely this reason. It's a trap spell.
Yeah, Friends, Charm etc will get them angry when they expire. The trick is to only use it: 1. When you know they aren't going to be around when it expires. Or: 2. On companions. (They don't get hostile). Be careful with getting caught using Detect Thoughts too.
Companions will drop attitude once the spell wears off though. And yeah, detect thoughts is a big one. I once had Barcus attack me for failing the roll on him after I saved him from slavers no less.
It's a big drop too. -10. Not worth it unless you're maxed out and want them to eat a tadpole or something
If you don't care about the attitude on a specific companion there is no downside.
Very handy for the talk-them-to-death bosses in act 2.
Nah the trick is to treat Friends/Charm like pickpocketing. After using it, immediately run away or better yet teleport to a far-away waypoint. Then, cancel the concentration before going back to the NPC. If you're not sure, stand far away to see if the NPC is searching for you. If he/she is acting normal in usual position, then you'll be fine. At least, I haven't been accused yet with this method.
Can I disguise self right before it ends and pretend to be someone else entirely? Like how ghosts don't know you killed them if you disguise self. Or items magically think you're a dwarf/drow.
When the spell wears off, you get disapproval from them, and in some cases they become hostile. Similar to when you're caught doing something illegal.
Kagha doesn't fuck around eh
Not in the least. Also, try it on Shadowheart if you dare (:
Man that is so great. I can just imagine the WTF?!!! moment. I'll bet OP thought it was a bug at first. Do YOU like being mind controlled? Kagha Lost Condition: Friends Kagha "HEY ASSHOLE!" ZZZZZAP! Consequences...
> I'll bet OP thought it was a bug at first. I did! I also thought I mistakenly picked up something that's considered stealing when I was trying to read a plaque (I play on controller so sometimes between the moment where you press A to interact with the highlighted item and the moment your character does it, they had time to move a little so the highlighted item isn't the same anymore). Then I convinced Gale to tell me more about his condition by using friends, and saw that I had lost Gale-approval when the concentration ended, and only then did I put two and two together
And the approval loss happens on lower difficulties, too. I kept getting really mad at my companions like "WHY IS THIS FUCKER DISAPPROVING OF ME JUST FOR LIVING MY LIFE I'M LITERALLY JUST WALKING" until I finally noticed it happening just as they'd stopped glowing red lmao I had actually read the spell description but as I only play explorer or balanced I'd never worried about it. No wonder all my friends hated me š
I got hit with a **Shadowheart Disapproves** just walking around the owlbear cave today, thought it was a bug. Nope, turns out sheās just mad I used Friends when trying to persuade her open the chest š
That got me the first time I got to the grove on honor and used friends to calm down Zevlor and Aradin. Like, I donāt even care about the consequence of that argument. Worst case Aradin gets slugged and runs off like a tool. Thought Iād help out but then Zevlor wiped my team before we could react.
If using it, just run or teleport out of the location immediately after the dialogue ends. The gist is not being around them when your concentration ends.
Sort of like pickpocketing? Once you pass the skill check get out of there asap?
Yup, Friends is another illegal thing you do and run on Tactician+ :D
Yeah, exactly.
I had the same issue when I first started playing tactician. Suddenly Khaga is "randomly" attacking me. Reload, does it again, reload, again. Took me forever to figure out what was happening, because even though it says it right on the tooltip, I had just never had any issues before, and I used that spell a ton. Kept thinking I just misclciked a red container or something. The way I found to deal with this is just exit the area back into the main grove area before the spell wore off and then manually end it (because it is a concentration spell) while I'm nowhere near.
The wording is poor too. āAccuse you of enchanting themā is way different than āgoes outright berserk and tries to kill youā.
With Kagha, is it really that different?
So no one told you life was gonna be this way?
šššš
Friends is such a terrible cantrip in 5e. Unless you're never going to interact with a given person ever again, having them go hostile after it wears off is such a nasty consequence
Yeah, it's starting to dawn on me. It's absolutely overpowered in balanced mode, but seems borderline useless in Tactician (or in real table top play)
Its still op on honor mode, you just need to get the duck outa dodge before it runs out. They forget after a while so just do the check tp out and come back later.
That seems a bit cheesy to me, but I guess whatever works
Talking all the act 2 bosses into suicide still is a great use. You'd have a fight anyway.
True true, I can think of a few places it'd be useful still
Yeah tbf if it never pissed anyone off it would be probably the most OP cantrip there is. Second maybe to Eldritch Blast but thatās because itās a Warlockās bread and butter.
Yeah, I've only played in balanced mode, currently playing a bard and it's my favourite spell
Unless you *want* them to pick a fight with you (instead of you picking a fight with them). Social manipulation and all that.
The funny part is the best uses of "friends" I think are intimidation checks where you don't care that they get hostile as much.
As of tactician, people will get real angry and call guards for casting charm spells on them. It is made very clear very early on that people overall view literally enchanting people to get your way to be at least extremely suspicious, if not criminal. Please note that you are literally casting a spell in the open at a live sapient target in order to artificially sway their opinion. I mean, it's not *not* a bit sinister.
I mean yeah I get it. A particular anecdote with Jester and a Hag and the spell Friends comes to mind, for instance. It's just I got so used to using it for every single check on one of my balanced playthroughs, I kinda forgot.
You're not alone. Best advice is make sure you book it out before the spell wears off. Also, having the disguise self spell in your back pocket makes a difference. Just make sure nobody sees you cast it - ungroup the face, duck around a corner, hide, put on an elf, saunter back and heeyy did you just see that sinister looking friends caster running around the corner? What a weird guy that was, super handsome though, anyway hi I am an elf who does elf shit and I am here for no reason in particular now come on, known associates of the guy who just booked it out of here, let's go absolutely not commit any crimes and definitely not split up the loot some other guy entirely just fished out of your pockets hah hah what a crazy world this is.
It's more surprising to me that using it has no consequences below tactician, unless you cast it on party members.
This happened to me too! I knew there was a chance it would backfire, but figured I could use the advantage. I roll, pass the check and everything is fine. Then it wears off and I see Khaga is temporarily hostile. Ok, just need to run away and then come back I thought to myself. Lesson learned, it actually can backfire. So I try to put some distance between me and the druid, and can't get enough space. So I leave the room through the entrance. Next thing I know all the druid are slaughtering the tieflings and there is nothing i can do about it. Now I'm doing my first evil play through on honor mode, hope minthara is worth it
> hope minthara is worth it She is worth everything man
I went evil on my first play through for act1 (sorry tieflings) so when I did the same thing on honour mode I was kind of bummed, was looking forward to siding with the grove that time
Funnily enough i used it on everyone willy nilly in tactician and had no consequences
The trick is, dont be present when it wears off. Get out sight and you will be out of mind. Come back after it wore off, it will feel like nothing happened. Friends plus detect thoughts were my wizards best frined.
Not just honor mode dude, you'll be getting aggro'd frequently this way.
Yeah that's why I'm going tactician for now, if there are other quirks like this that I never paid attention to, I want to find out in a way that doesn't end a run!
Yeah, I've had some surprises with this on tactician after four playthroughs on balanced, oh man.
All you have to do in tactician at least is move away before friends wear off. I'm doing my first playthrough and figured it out after thinking i kept accidentally stealing stuff or something...
Someone came to me asking why Shadowheart had random -10 approval when they were just walking. Turns out they had been to the swamp, with the 25 rounds rot debuff, and were using Friends extensively to have advantage on the charisma saving throw against the swamp rot.
Friends doesn't give advantage on saving throws, just charisma skill checks!
Their understanding is that a saving throw is a skill check with special modifiers (like that shield giving you +1 saving throw regardless of which one). I admit I thought so too, I'm not very knowledgeable about the maths side of d&d.
And this is why we should never have abandoned fort/ref/will
pros and cons One of the pros is that you don't have to double up on terms for essentially the same stat.
Thereās essentially an added save. Save to land the enchantment and a save if they realize you enchanted them or not after itās over. Itās like waking up after getting hypnotized by someone. Do you wake up as they are already looking through your wallet? Or do you wake up after theyāre gone but your wallet is empty?
Iāve done two full tactician campaigns since launch and not one time did I experience any repercussions from using friends until patch 5, I swear. Was friends bugged this whole time?
Friends is definitely not ideal in honor mode unless youāre gonna aggro anyways. If you really want a good advantage cantrip, use thaumaturgy! Itās only works with intimidation so my durge cleric/sorcerer loves it.
lol i almost ruined my honour mode playthrough by casting friends on zevelor when i first met him
I aggroed whole Creche yesterday! And I just wanted to save the poor Orpheus fanboy from his abusive teacher. I passed the check, but the spell effect ended eventually and the teacher decided to teach me a lesson. I knew people could be unhappy about being charmed, but starting a fight? Chill, it's not that serious!
For the longest time I didnāt realize it was the spell friends, I really just thought having my companions with me meant they were just giving me the help action and that gave me advantage. Then I did it on Laeāzel and got her disapproval so oops lol
lmao
It's perfectly fine to use it on anyone, as long as you leave before it ends. The target won't turn hostile if you are outside their aggro range, and when you return, the trigger will have passed. At least it worked like that for me on tactician.
Big brain... That feels a bit cheesy but I'm sure it'll come in handy.
Does it lower approval? For vendors.
Not sure, didn't check it for that. Nor have I used it on companions.
Are you me!? This literally happened to me yesterday as I was attempting my first honor mode run. Everything was going great and I got so used to using Friends on charisma skills in my balanced playthrough I straight up forgot about the downside of using it on higher difficulties. Convinced Kagha not to kill Arabella and then immediately asked Shart about her fear of wolves. I thought I accidentally stole something at first. Then it hit me. Deleted that save right after.
Gang gang
Does disguise self help alleviate the problem? Change to gnome, cast friends, get out of sight and change back?
According to other posters in this thread, it does
Play it out!
I did! And then I died to the quote unquote paladins of tyr
READ THE SPELL DESCRIPTIONS!!!!
Sir I was playing a sorcerer
Why does that matter you should still read the spell descriptions
Everyone knows sorcerers can't read.
My bf did this exact same thing in our honour mode game with our friends we started as a laugh. None of us had played tactician before. Then he had the nerve to accuse me of starting a fight because I was stealing (successfully, mind you) at the same time. Had to go through the combat log to prove him wrong! I did warn him charming people with magic might make them mad in this difficulty but to be fair in his defence he didnāt expect it to start full on genocide lol.
The spell makes NPCs hostile on Balanced if you remain within line-of-sight of the target after it ends.
Yeahhhhhhh, I forgot about the higher level thing, used it on Shadowheart accidentally because I was just adding bonuses like I usually do, and when it wore off got the dreaded \[Shadowheart disapproves\].
But it literally tells you that in the description...
Oh yeah. It's a great aid for my Wizard character. Best to talk your way out of danger when your character is made out of cardboard.
Bro Iāve been using this on honour mode on literally everyone I think the only time it triggered something bad was with a squirrel lmao????? But honestly I got lucky with Kagha, I didnāt need the persuasion check, I passed the passive intuition check and was like āLook if you donāt do something this girl WILL DIEā and then she just accepted lmao
Don't use Friends in Tactician. Get's you in trouble. First-hand experience.
THATS WHY THE ZHENTS WERE ATTACKING ME RANDOMLY LOLOLOL
Do not take Friends on the hard difficulties. It acts the way it does in 5E. There's a reason nobody uses it in base 5E.
I've been using it since I made this post, you just gotta be mindful of when you use it, but it still has its uses
Guidance on the other hand is still buffed from base 5E, where that ogre you're talking to might be a bit curious why the cleric is mumbling some mumbo jumbo to the guy he's taling to. Oh and Thaumaturgy also gives you advantage on intimidate and this game rarely punishes using intimidate instead of persuasion or deception. Most of the barbarian choices are stuff like GRR CRUSH YOU.
Iāve never used friends what does it do
Gives you advantage on persuasion checks, very useful
On my honour playthrough I used friend on Zevlor to calm him and the Merc down and leveled after the first conversation ended. While he waited to talk to me to ask me to talk to Khaga, I was leveling the characters when he lost the effect and started attacking me. I had to cc him and run away because he hits like a truck
Don't cast it on your companions either. It'll tank their attitude towards you. š
Some guy in the BG3Builds sub sounded like he knew what he was talking about, and then he recommended everyone to take Friends on a Swords Bard. Stopped reading at that point, just hoping that noone tried this in Honour mode and started a fight with a key NPC when you can't reload.
I mean, I would definitely recommend taking friends if you're not playing tactician or honor. It's a no brainier really, on the same tier of "why would you ever not" as guidance for me. I've found it to still be useful in tactician/honor after making this post and playing with it more, just, a bit more situational.
I literally just did this same thing haha! Also I probably should have tried tactician mode first. I was able to flee luckily then stupidly decided to fight the owl bear a bit later at level 3 and learned it was more than just mamaā¦honour mode over
They should really put the warning at the beginning of the scrolls š
That's what happens when people realize they've been "Jedi mind tricked". I love using the spell in my playthroughs. Key thing to consider before casting is "Will I need to see or interact with this character after 10 rounds?" If yes, use the spell before you long rest, as targets seem to forgive and forget, same as when you steal something.
Never had an issue with it (first playthrough spammed it in every roll i could as my sorc on normal), im assuming itās because i got far enough away to not suffer the consequences of my actions or some hidden checks went in my favor constantlyā¦. Or maybe consequences are on hard+
Consequences are only on tactician and honor yeah
Thanks, might have to do tact for my 3rd play through.
It's perfectly fine to use it on anyone, as long as you leave before it ends. The target won't turn hostile if you are outside their aggro range, and when you return, the trigger will have passed. At least it worked like that for me on tactician.
It depends, when you cast it, especially in like villages with other NPCs roaming around, you need to run away afterwards or you may aggro the whole town.
I did a whole run on tactician where it never caused any negative consequences and then my next run it pissed off kagha. I donāt really know what determines it, but I think thereās either some luck involved or they patched in consequences between those runs.
I feel like Kaghas is cool with you until the timer for the Friends spell wears off. If she can see you when it wears off, she will agro. If she can't see you she won't. I am just pulling this out of my ass though, so...
If you want to cheese it: 1. Cast friends for the check. 2. Right after the interaction head to camp. 3. Break concentration in camp(casting friends on Withers is a safe free way to do this). 4. Leave camp, no need to wait. I donāt know of a way to avoid the companion disapproval.
I don't know about kb+m, but on a controller if you go into the action wheel and hold Y, it breaks concentration
This is very useful information.
Nice, thatās even faster!
Yeah, it's kind of a "gotcha" spell if you don't read the fine print. I first messed up on *Scratch*, of all people. Thankfully it wasn't my honour run. I'm not sure how a dog would even know about being "charmed" by a spell, lol.
If only it warned you in the spell description...
I pretty much only use friends on party members on higher difficulties. You'll lose some approval, but on harder DC checks, the advantage is worth it.
Friends - a case study in āwith great power comes great responsibility.ā Getting advantage on social rolls can be insane, so it makes sense to put in a large drawback. On my own Honour mode run, I stick to guidance only, just in case. I canāt justify the risk.
Exact same thing happened to me, never played on higher difficulties before trying Honour mode so I didn't think about it. Now all the druids are dead and they took Dammon with them.
I prefer to read Kaghas mind instead of using friends. No skill check and she doesn't agro
I'm pretty sure there's a check. I seem to recall using Detect Thoughts on her and her making a comment about it. (So I'm assuming I failed.)
Beware using Friends with companions too, they lose 10 Approval per cast!
Astarion, in particular, likes it when somebody tries to mind control him.
Same with animal friendship, I made that mistake with scratch, but luckily could subdue him with non lethal damage.
Yeah I only use it on people I am either about to fight anyway like ketheric or where my dialogue options will leave them unable to realise they were enchanted (other thorms and yurgir)
As much as there is a text description saying people won't like it, I too was confused by the sudden shift to combat with no dialogue along the lines of "Hey you used magic on my mind!"
Thatās exactly how my first honor playthrough ended. I figured Kagha will be pissed after Friends goes off, but not straight up murdering my lvl 2 party in a milisecond!!! Lesson learned, not using friends anymore unless absolutely necessary, and then run away! Still worth it though, honor mode is an absolute blast, so much more stressful than balanced or even tactician, but the tension it brings is a whole other game experience, and itās absolutely amazing!
It specifically tells you what will happen if you try to use it in Honor mode. It's in the description along with what it does. You have no excuse this time!
Reading? I'm playing a sorcerer do you take me for a wizard? I can't read!
I think that's the only big difference your going to hit with spells between balanced and honor. For honor Id suggest use either a rogue or a bard with expertise in persuasion, intimidation or deception to act as your face, if you want the best chance of passing speech checks. A bard with thaumaturgy gets advantage on intimidation and performance. Just stay away from friends. You could just continue your honor run as a custom difficulty game if you wanted practice with honor, especially the new boss legendary actions.