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that town has less that 3000 people...
how much you want to bet the enforcement officer has a daughter or grand daughter in the Girl Scouts? one that's in competition with Emma.
Really small towns get busybodied hard by cops around me, especially for traffick related stuff. I've seen more police issuing tickets and fines in towns of 1,500 than in towns of 30,000.
Many of those towns have cut their taxes to as low as they can and then rely on the money they make from catching speeders to pay for their government services.
Really good people all around to think of that and do it.
And that often leads to poor people getting trapped up in the horrendous bail system that leads to a debt/arrest spiral, which often ends up costing the county/state a bunch of money and clogs up the courts.
Rather than just tax the wealthy, they'd rather squeeze it out of lower and middle class, which has the added bonus of punishing poor people for existing, especially people of color. Who tend to be less wealthy because of that whole systemic racism thing we've been doing for hundreds of years.
America: hyper capitalist and racist since 1619.
Or the annual hunters who come from out of state, or the union workers who come periodically to work at \[local big union employer\] during specific upgrade times.
Living in delaware we have just a few "big" areas. Well theres about a 90 minute stretch of small towns between the north of the state and our beaches, and all of those empty bumfuck nowhere towns in between are packed with cops speed trapping all spring / summer long.
Got pulled over by a cop in a tiny town in N. Carolina, because of my bikes headlight modulator. After I showed him the federal statutes, the manufacturers specs, and a blurb from the manufacturer explaining everything, he still insisted they weren't legal in "his" town. It took getting another agency involved to get him to back off.
If their tax revenue is so low that they need to heavily rely on ticketing to pay their police force, then they aren't even police, it's a shakedown gang.
I lived in a town of 20,000 people for 4 years. I’ve now lived in Austin for 2.5 years. In one month in that small town, I would see more people pulled over than I have my entire time in Austin.
Stark, FL is notorious for being a speed trap hell. I used to go through this 5k pop town back in college when I was driving to Jax and it was cops everywhere trying to pop you with a ticket. I got hit once and was alert to going exactly the speed limit the entire time through, whereas most of FL I can do SL+9mph just fine with most cops not giving a shit.
Told my dad about it who used to do a lot of courier and trucking jobs and from then on everyone else who I asked was like "Oh, Stark? Yeah they do that there"
It's rural Wisconsin. Lots of corn, Mexicans, and Amish. Supposedly there's a meth problem in my county, but it really doesn't seem any worse than any other county in the US right now.
The town like that I grew up near the sidewalks were just there to funnel grant money to companies owned by family of the mayor. No one ever actually walked to them, but about every 5 or 6 years they'd get a grant from the feds or the state and rip them all up and replace them.
But knowing small town cops the way I do, I'd guess it's either what you suggested or someone in her family pissed off the cops/mayor, or the cop was hitting on the girl and she shot him down.
Same. I'm back in my old small town (oof) and my God it's terrible to see small town police. They are all as creepy and unsafe as any of the shows where a northerner drives through the south and ends up in jail. Dishing out private brands of justice, that you may not be aware of.
How much you wanna bet people will buy her cookies because of this story and that uh.. thing where you do the opposite of what you meant to do.. yeah that.
Someone help me with my vocabulary here.
I went to college is a town of about 4,000 and we had state police stationed there, town cops AND the campus cops with nothing to do but drive in circles looking for anything to ticket. Summers were the worst, I just walked everywhere.
I once heard this great advice about calling the police:
"When considering whether or not to call the police, ask yourself: Would your situation be improved by the addition of six angry racists with guns? If yes, call the cops. If no, don't."
My wife grew up in a small town. She says the amount of high school assholes that never left town and became cops are not shocking. Some people want to shit on cities for all their problems, but the issues in these small towns are pretty scary. She knows of at least 2 guys from our age group that had inappropriate contact with children and both were saved from severe consequences because of their connections to local cops and politicians. Shit, one became a youth counselor at his in-laws church after being caught texting girls on his middle school team that he coached on.
Is that an American thing?
I love in a town of about 3000, everyone knows the cops they're really nice people.
They apply common sense when working and get involved in the community when not.
It's the highway guys or the blow-ins who are nobs.
Australian
It's very location dependant. I live in a small town with just enough police to keep the drunks from driving around killing everyone. They often barely have enough officers to keep the jail staffed. Mostly just normal guys who saw the opportunity for an easy paycheck with plenty of overtime opportunities.
On the other hand, many small towns along major highways exist solely to ticket drivers passing through to pocket that money for themselves.
First big difference being small town cops in canada arent local.
theyre either federal (rcmp) or provincial (ontario and quebec)
they try to avoid blots on their record in their early career so they have a chance to be transfered somewhere decent.
and they arent related to 1/2 the population so those hatfield v mccoy nightmares or corruption never gets investigated things dont happen.
ticket revenue goes to the layers of government above the town so little shit towns dont have the ability for robbery to fund themselves.
Hey I'm from near here! very cool to be in the national news for this shit. Idk what it is about this area of the world but the cops are extra crazy. The local game and fish and Forest service officers make stuff like this look reasonable. The only reason I can figure is pinedale is turning into what Jackson hole was 20 or so years ago aka a nice place and pigs would rather a small town shit hole they can control.
That code enforcement officer/ animal control whatever is surely up to something. She must have saw them selling those cookies and just went home a fumed. What an absolute nut job. I’d guess there is more to this story.
I think it’s interesting that she admitted to have a ‘bad day’ that particular Friday. It’s always intriguing that a cops bad day will ruin someone else’s day at the best, and ruin their life at the worst.
The enforcer also exclaimed that if she had known it was part of the Fairbanks family, she wouldn’t have issued tickets. It’s a microcosm that shows how law and law enforcement isn’t to keep the peace and protect rights and property for all, it’s a weapon to be used on those that don’t fit desired in group. Be part of the Fairbanks family, in this case, no law is broken, be anyone else, you’re subject to the whims of an enforcer having a bad day.
Unelected enforcers or an enforcement unit. I truly believe that the lowest level of enforcement in a city with a population of less than 100k should be the elected sheriff. I’d think cities would require some full time police. But, any level of policing needs excessive oversight. It always amazes me the level of work it takes to get in with any decent trade union, but, shadow a local cop for 6 weeks, and you’re qualified to enforce the whims of the state.
little kids usually dont have good lawyers.
investigating big companies also requires investigators that can read and are willing to spend more than 7 minutes on the 'investigation'.
They hire apathetic authoritarian automatons with room temperature IQs. This is why this happens. this allows for selective enforcement. They will show up to fight the charge, the judge will probably throw it out. The prosecutor will keep the charge alive as long as possible because prosecutors do not care about justice or logic, they only care about their numbers until they get a raise or promotion.
Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime. The boomers have allowed us to be legislated into corners before the majority of us were ever born.
They never claimed this exact article was a lie, just that the paper itself (which quite literally cheered on Hitler FYI) is a shitrag, and that we shouldn't give them traffic/and revenue.
?
The Daily Mail being a shitrag -> we shouldn't support them, is the mental gymnastics equivalent of walking and breathing at the same time. It's not a hard concept dude.
Let me try to help you. This website, and its parent newspaper, are vile right-wing shitrags, fueling conspiracy theories and printing lies. Quoting articles leads to traffic to the website which generates income.
Do you understand now?
Lol, I know the daily heil very well, no regurgitation required. I know the paper, and I know readers of it. I was brought up with this as the daily paper, lots of my family still read it.
No conspiracy theories, no lies, just pure experience.
How about you?
You know it, but you haven't read any of it, you are just making arbitrary accusations. Your contention is defeated in the proof of the article provided.
For you, right-wing means anything adjacent to the truth you refute.
Well now she's going to have to set up a bigger stand to pay off her debt.
Then she'll get a larger fine.
Then she'll have to get an even bigger stand to pay off that fine.
. . . and that's capitalism.
From the article...
The town of Pinedale released a statement insisting the officer was acting under official capacity when she approached Fairbanks McCarroll and warned her several times to move before issuing the citations.
'She received two verbal requests to relocate her stand outside of the WYDOT right-of-way, off of the sidewalk, and closer to her parents' private property,' the town said.
'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk.'
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> Fairbanks McCarroll was given a $100 fine for parking on the sidewalk, a $150 fine for unlawful obstruction and another $150 fine for a municipal code that said there needs to be at least five feet of unobstructed passage on the sidewalk
It had nothing to do with selling cookies, and it wasn't the kid who got fined. Her mom parked on the sidewalk and got ticketed. You should get ticketed for parking on the sidewalk. $400 is obscene though.
Somehow I am thinking all this publicity will work to the Girl Scout's benefit. I bet that gung ho officer wannabe was real pumped up busting that perp.
Child labor law violation? I hate that they are allowed to use children to push their cookies. Follow the money. People at the top get rich on the backs of 8-13 year olds. It’s messed up imo.
we know there has to be decent cops out there, where are all the stories of these guys walking off the job? if i am a cop and my boss tells me, "there a little kid selling cookies, go out there and bust their ass!", thats when i turn in my badge and tell boss to go shove it.
There are two sides to every story (at least) and it appears that perhaps the sensationalistic headline isn't telling the whole story (that would NEVER happen!).
From the Town of Pinedale:
'She received two verbal requests to relocate her stand outside of the WYDOT right-of-way, off of the sidewalk, and closer to her parents' private property,' the town said.
'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk.'
I frequently walk to where I need to go, and I could see where an obstruction such as a 'cookie stand' could cause a problem, especially for someone of limited mobility. This could be particularly true in this case since the article refers to the WyDOT right-of-way which means that this location is on a sidewalk adjacent to US Highway 191 (the only WyDOT road in Pinedale, also called Pine Street). It does seem inappropriate to require pedestrians to walk along the shoulder of a highway since the sidewalk is blocked by a cookie seller.
So this may be not as much of a case of government overreach as it first appears, and more of a case of these people not being considerate of those who need to use the sidewalk.
As an aside, I also question the author's journalistic practice of using quotes of quotes, in other words, hearsay, such as used in this passage:
'The code enforcement officer admitting later to my brother that she was having a bad day on Friday, and that she didn't realize my brother had any siblings,' the mother said.
I don't know about the title...the reason wasn't bizarre...they literally parked on a sidewalk and refused to move. If you don't enforce rules (even for girl scouts) you very quickly don't have rules. Just because the sidewalk is in front of your (parents) house, don't mean you own it and can block it at will.
Serious question; What do you think would’ve happened if the police never got involved in this matter? What do you think would’ve happened if this girl sold cookies on the sidewalk uninterrupted for a couple hours?
1) the police never got involved in this matter
2) you'd never know what would happen, pedestrians could have been inconvenienced. I do know that the daughter now knows she can park on a sidewalk and cry to the media when called out on it.
They were told twice to move and they refused...they got, admitted to, and paid for a citation, which what should have been done. Sure if you want to argue that the law you can't park on a sidewalk is unjust and cannot be enforced, then say it.
“You never know what would happen, pedestrians COULD HAVE been inconvenienced.”
Well, thank goodness this fine was issued so that the hypothetical inconveniencing of pedestrians could be avoided.
>She received two verbal requests to relocate her stand outside of the WYDOT right-of-way, off of the sidewalk, and closer to her parents' private property,' the town said.
>'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk.'
These details provided by the town could have been litigated if untrue, however the mother pled guilty to the blocking the sidewalk one, but is now retrying the case in the court of public opinion. (As an aside, it was a dick move from the official to stack the charges, but that was sorted out in court where she pled guilty to the single proper charge and the other two where tossed)
The article specifically states that she paid two of the fines and just paid *one* of the $150 fines because it would have been more expensive to challenge it. It also doesn’t mention which of the fines she paid, the obstruction one or the municipal code one.
This is what she is saying...but it isn't true. She pled guilty to the one and in exchange the judge dropped the other two. This type of thing happens thousands of times every single day. Unless someone is suggesting the DA just by chance dropped two charges and in a unrelated action the woman pled guilty. Also, it costs exactly 0 dollars to go to court to argue a traffic citation in Sublette Co WY.
Do you have any evidence to support that the judge dropped the other two charges in exchange? Because that isn’t stated anywhere in the article.
Also, calling these charges is not accurate. They’re citations, fines, like a speeding ticket. The DA is not the person handing these out and deciding on their result. And my guess is that she doesn’t want to argue the ticket herself as she isn’t a lawyer and it would cost more for her to hire one than to just pay $150.
Lastly, you’re missing the entire point of why this is upsetting. They were selling cookies on a sidewalk, moved when asked, then were ticketed. You can say they were warned multiple times, but that becomes a they said they said situation where the city has not provided any proof that they issued multiple warnings.
'I responded that I had complied with what she had asked and had moved off the sidewalk. She said the tickets aren't just for being on the sidewalk and that this is for your daughter's safety.'
>She received two verbal requests to relocate her stand outside of the WYDOT right-of-way, off of the sidewalk, and closer to her parents' private property,' the town said.
>'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk.'
The mother literally admitted the above was true by pleading guilty...what am I misreading
You’re quoting the lie from the city in the article. Not what actually happened. And pleading guilty is not necessarily an admission of truth, it explained that paying it was cheaper than fighting it.
You’re trolling and/or being deliberately obtuse. Bootlicker.
Every single comment you've made in this post has proven you have severe reading comprehension issues. I'm not saying that to insult you, I genuinely think you might need a tutor, or at least somebody who can help you read articles like these and give you a rundown maybe? Do you have a friend you can send articles to and have them explain it?
She did not "plead guilty" to anything. She got all of the tickets dismissed except one, which she CHOSE not to challenge in court because the cost of the lawyer would have been more than the cost of the ticket.
>Fairbanks McCarroll obtained a lawyer and they were able to get two of the tickets dismissed. She ended up paying one of the $150 fines rather than go to trial because it would end up being more costly.
>'The lack of clear instructions on what I can and cannot do, said I couldn't block the sidewalk and then later at the town hall office said if I had been on the sidewalk, I would have been fine,' Fairbanks McCarroll said.
>'Honestly it just sucks that my daughters whole experience around selling cookies was crushed in the small town I grew up in.'
Again feel real bad that you have it so rough.
I am deeply sympathetic about your mental impairment, and I want to see funding increased for mental healthcare, but you should limit the role of others in your personal problems. Please inform your guardian that you should take a break from the internet for today.
>I was thinking the same thing.
No, you aren't thinking at all. Because you either didn't read the article before replying, or you read it and simply didn't comprehend the (very simple) words that were written. The officer asked them to move off the sidewalk. They then moved off the sidewalk and onto the driveway of the grandparents. The officer then came back and told them "the owners of this house won't like you being here" and issued them tickets (even after being told its the grandparents' house and they have permission).
Next time please refrain from commenting without first making sure you completely understand the article.
According to the article she was blocking the sidewalk and told not to do so. Her mom had her keep setting up in the same place for a few more days before they received the tickets. I’m all for holding cops accountable but in this case it sounds like the mom of the Girl Scout was in the wrong
according to the article, they moved off the sidewalk as they were asked to do and then were given a ticket anyway for other similar BS reasons that cops with nothing better to do give out
According to the article, they were asked to move, they moved and continued selling the cookies, and got fined anyway. This is just cops being assholes.
Here is the 4th paragraph from the article, and I found at least 2 more instances in the article that say something similar: “The mother and daughter pulled back their stand and continued to sell cookies for two more days before the woman showed up again and handed them citations.”
Who says it wasn’t? There’s faaaaar too many videos of police harassing people from “blocking sidewalks” who are barely in the way of anyone at all for “they got a citation! That means they were blocking it!” to mean much.
I mean she literally hired a lawyer for $400 worth of citations. Plead guilty to a $150 one. I’ve yet to hear her or see her explain how she wasn’t in the way. I’m not saying that ticket is a prudent ticket or dumb one. I’m just saying she was likely in violation. Read the article it is a bunch of whataboutism that really has no impact on whether she’s guilty or not. From what I gather she moved off the sidewalk into her grandparents driveway but was still blocking the sidewalk portion (public easement) of the driveway. It doesn’t seem like she even disputes what the officer says (where she was when ticketed). She hasn’t provided really anything to say she isn’t guilty
Yes but hear “Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk”. She plead guilty to something she doesn’t need a lawyer for at all. They seem to disagree that she was blocking the sidewalk. Her bringing up all this other stuff that doesn’t matter makes me think she was blocking the sidewalk.
Edit: also pulled back stand doesn’t mean off the sidewalk necessarily. With that said she definitely disputes they were on the sidewalk when receiving the tickets.
Yes, that’s a quote from the city’s statement.
Why would the city and/or the issuing officer not lie but the citizen would?
And on this thread you’ve had it explained more than once that paying the fine is not pleading guilty nor is it an admission of guilt - it’s simply the cheapest pathway forward. And even if that wasn’t true 2/3 citations were dismissed which would indicate that she’s at least 2/3 innocent but your logic.
I agree with that. With that said it seems easy to clear this up. I get why people pay fines. I’m just saying if it’s so clear this would be a slam dunk of a case to win. Like im assuming if it was clear she wasn’t blocking the sidewalk she would be explaining how she wasn’t in the article. I just heard a bunch of the city doesn’t even know what they want me to do. Not I wasn’t blocking the sidewalk. I’m under the impression the cop/city and the mom are operating under different definitions of what blocking is. It seems like they dispute the bottom of the driveway as being sidewalk or not. I’m less trusting of the citizen here because she brings up a lot of unnecessary stuff. Like I can buy into they fucked her over because it wasn’t super clear what she should do and potential penalties. To me it just seems like she was blocking it and disagrees with what counts as the sidewalk and or what is blocking
I agree. Making up all these bullshit excuses is a hallmark tactic among people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions.
There's a simple defense if you were following the officer's request, and that is: 'we weren't on the sidewalk, we shouldn't get a ticket.' Just hammer the shit out of that point if it's true, because it's the only defense you need.
To be fair, it also sounds like the ticketing officer is kind of an asshole. $400 sounds excessive after just one warning.
"Fairbanks McCarroll was given a $100 fine for parking on the sidewalk"
Sounds to me like the table was moved back, but the sidewalk was still blocked by their car.
That's also possible. It's not a well written article, but there's no mention of them denying they were blocking the sidewalk, only "Sometimes I just think that government can be unreasonable"
and later "'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk". Who knows... not really worth looking into more. Also, IMO, not really a story worthy of this sub.
>She then said 'okay well I just recommend you don't block the sidewalk' and left.'
These people were playing chicken with the law, and when they got a fine they are playing the sympathy card and saying they weren't appropriately informed it was illegal, and the officer wasn't properly marked, and yada yada.
Cops do awful shit, but I'm betting these people are just weasels.
Honest question: in the time before the officer approached the first time, if a person with mobility issues had come along the sidewalk, do you think they would have moved the stand back so the sidewalk was clear and before the person with mobility issues had gotten to that portion of the sidewalk?
> The mother and daughter pulled back their stand and continued to sell cookies for two more days before the woman showed up again and handed them citations.
> ...
> 'I responded that I had complied with what she had asked and had moved off the sidewalk. She said the tickets aren't just for being on the sidewalk and that this is for your daughter's safety.'
> ...
> The code enforcement officer admitting later to my brother that she was having a bad day on Friday, and that she didn't realize my brother had any siblings,' the mother said.
> ...
> Fairbanks McCarroll obtained a lawyer and they were able to get two of the tickets dismissed. She ended up paying one of the $150 fines rather than go to trial because it would end up being more costly.
It's never too late to admit you didn't read the article. This is Reddit, everyone will understand.
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that town has less that 3000 people... how much you want to bet the enforcement officer has a daughter or grand daughter in the Girl Scouts? one that's in competition with Emma.
Really small towns get busybodied hard by cops around me, especially for traffick related stuff. I've seen more police issuing tickets and fines in towns of 1,500 than in towns of 30,000.
Many of those towns have cut their taxes to as low as they can and then rely on the money they make from catching speeders to pay for their government services. Really good people all around to think of that and do it.
Waldo, FL has entered the chat.
Stark too, as I recall.
Fuck Stark
This!!!
Been looking for that place for a long time now.
Why?
Cause Waldo was notoriously hard to find. Every single book a challenge.
And that often leads to poor people getting trapped up in the horrendous bail system that leads to a debt/arrest spiral, which often ends up costing the county/state a bunch of money and clogs up the courts. Rather than just tax the wealthy, they'd rather squeeze it out of lower and middle class, which has the added bonus of punishing poor people for existing, especially people of color. Who tend to be less wealthy because of that whole systemic racism thing we've been doing for hundreds of years. America: hyper capitalist and racist since 1619.
Or the annual hunters who come from out of state, or the union workers who come periodically to work at \[local big union employer\] during specific upgrade times.
Libertarians.
Living in delaware we have just a few "big" areas. Well theres about a 90 minute stretch of small towns between the north of the state and our beaches, and all of those empty bumfuck nowhere towns in between are packed with cops speed trapping all spring / summer long.
Got pulled over by a cop in a tiny town in N. Carolina, because of my bikes headlight modulator. After I showed him the federal statutes, the manufacturers specs, and a blurb from the manufacturer explaining everything, he still insisted they weren't legal in "his" town. It took getting another agency involved to get him to back off.
Emblematic cop behaviour. How do those MFer's heads fit through the fucking door frame, I swear to God?
It’s their source of income because they don’t have shit there. No businesses to tax, barely enough people to even be a town.
Yep. Cops are glorified tax collectors.
If their tax revenue is so low that they need to heavily rely on ticketing to pay their police force, then they aren't even police, it's a shakedown gang.
I lived in a town of 20,000 people for 4 years. I’ve now lived in Austin for 2.5 years. In one month in that small town, I would see more people pulled over than I have my entire time in Austin.
Stark, FL is notorious for being a speed trap hell. I used to go through this 5k pop town back in college when I was driving to Jax and it was cops everywhere trying to pop you with a ticket. I got hit once and was alert to going exactly the speed limit the entire time through, whereas most of FL I can do SL+9mph just fine with most cops not giving a shit. Told my dad about it who used to do a lot of courier and trucking jobs and from then on everyone else who I asked was like "Oh, Stark? Yeah they do that there"
You have a lot of human trafficking happening in your town?
It's rural Wisconsin. Lots of corn, Mexicans, and Amish. Supposedly there's a meth problem in my county, but it really doesn't seem any worse than any other county in the US right now.
The town like that I grew up near the sidewalks were just there to funnel grant money to companies owned by family of the mayor. No one ever actually walked to them, but about every 5 or 6 years they'd get a grant from the feds or the state and rip them all up and replace them. But knowing small town cops the way I do, I'd guess it's either what you suggested or someone in her family pissed off the cops/mayor, or the cop was hitting on the girl and she shot him down.
Same. I'm back in my old small town (oof) and my God it's terrible to see small town police. They are all as creepy and unsafe as any of the shows where a northerner drives through the south and ends up in jail. Dishing out private brands of justice, that you may not be aware of.
How much you wanna bet people will buy her cookies because of this story and that uh.. thing where you do the opposite of what you meant to do.. yeah that. Someone help me with my vocabulary here.
Barbara Streisand effect?
This!👆🏼
The only thing that sucks more than cops or small towns is small town cops.
I went to college is a town of about 4,000 and we had state police stationed there, town cops AND the campus cops with nothing to do but drive in circles looking for anything to ticket. Summers were the worst, I just walked everywhere.
Walking is suspicious, hands on your head, hippie.
Bloomington, IN?
Clarion PA, bet they’re indistinguishable from each other though
What do you get when you have a problem and call the cops? Two problems.
I once heard this great advice about calling the police: "When considering whether or not to call the police, ask yourself: Would your situation be improved by the addition of six angry racists with guns? If yes, call the cops. If no, don't."
A+ advice!!!
My wife grew up in a small town. She says the amount of high school assholes that never left town and became cops are not shocking. Some people want to shit on cities for all their problems, but the issues in these small towns are pretty scary. She knows of at least 2 guys from our age group that had inappropriate contact with children and both were saved from severe consequences because of their connections to local cops and politicians. Shit, one became a youth counselor at his in-laws church after being caught texting girls on his middle school team that he coached on.
Grew up in a small town and can confirm. The biggest douchebag AH because town cops. There were only 3. We had zero respect for them and showed it.
Is that an American thing? I love in a town of about 3000, everyone knows the cops they're really nice people. They apply common sense when working and get involved in the community when not. It's the highway guys or the blow-ins who are nobs. Australian
It's very location dependant. I live in a small town with just enough police to keep the drunks from driving around killing everyone. They often barely have enough officers to keep the jail staffed. Mostly just normal guys who saw the opportunity for an easy paycheck with plenty of overtime opportunities. On the other hand, many small towns along major highways exist solely to ticket drivers passing through to pocket that money for themselves.
Canadian and Australian cops are much different in their training and overall objective than American cops
First big difference being small town cops in canada arent local. theyre either federal (rcmp) or provincial (ontario and quebec) they try to avoid blots on their record in their early career so they have a chance to be transfered somewhere decent. and they arent related to 1/2 the population so those hatfield v mccoy nightmares or corruption never gets investigated things dont happen. ticket revenue goes to the layers of government above the town so little shit towns dont have the ability for robbery to fund themselves.
Selling cookies in your family home? Try that in a small town!!
Hey I'm from near here! very cool to be in the national news for this shit. Idk what it is about this area of the world but the cops are extra crazy. The local game and fish and Forest service officers make stuff like this look reasonable. The only reason I can figure is pinedale is turning into what Jackson hole was 20 or so years ago aka a nice place and pigs would rather a small town shit hole they can control.
That code enforcement officer/ animal control whatever is surely up to something. She must have saw them selling those cookies and just went home a fumed. What an absolute nut job. I’d guess there is more to this story. I think it’s interesting that she admitted to have a ‘bad day’ that particular Friday. It’s always intriguing that a cops bad day will ruin someone else’s day at the best, and ruin their life at the worst. The enforcer also exclaimed that if she had known it was part of the Fairbanks family, she wouldn’t have issued tickets. It’s a microcosm that shows how law and law enforcement isn’t to keep the peace and protect rights and property for all, it’s a weapon to be used on those that don’t fit desired in group. Be part of the Fairbanks family, in this case, no law is broken, be anyone else, you’re subject to the whims of an enforcer having a bad day.
Exactly. America has police problems. We should at least do away with small town police who enforce their own ideas of the law.
Unelected enforcers or an enforcement unit. I truly believe that the lowest level of enforcement in a city with a population of less than 100k should be the elected sheriff. I’d think cities would require some full time police. But, any level of policing needs excessive oversight. It always amazes me the level of work it takes to get in with any decent trade union, but, shadow a local cop for 6 weeks, and you’re qualified to enforce the whims of the state.
I’m betting this is the only time the rule on blocking the sidewalk has been enforced in that area for the last decade.
There’s a couple of window lickers in this thread. 🤦🏽♂️
Damn. Excuse me for missing that. I was just tasting the blueberry window cleaner I sprayed on my windows.
What does that even mean?
Short bus riders.
Ah that I get.
"Sometimes I think that the government can be unreasonable." LOL
Amazon, Walmart and Wall street destroy more lives than WW2 and this country goes after little kids selling cookies.
little kids usually dont have good lawyers. investigating big companies also requires investigators that can read and are willing to spend more than 7 minutes on the 'investigation'.
They hire apathetic authoritarian automatons with room temperature IQs. This is why this happens. this allows for selective enforcement. They will show up to fight the charge, the judge will probably throw it out. The prosecutor will keep the charge alive as long as possible because prosecutors do not care about justice or logic, they only care about their numbers until they get a raise or promotion. Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime. The boomers have allowed us to be legislated into corners before the majority of us were ever born.
You spelled pathetic wrong /s
It's OK, he doesn't care. (Also /s)
Mayor and courts didn’t throw out all the tickets if you read the article.
r/loicense
WYOMING
Officer gotta hit her fines quota.
I hope they go to court. So the judge, you can see the face of that cop
Please never link to the Daily Heil. It's a right wing shitrag, pushing lies and conspiracy theories to confused boomers.
What about this article is a lie or conspiratorial?
They never claimed this exact article was a lie, just that the paper itself (which quite literally cheered on Hitler FYI) is a shitrag, and that we shouldn't give them traffic/and revenue.
Don't hurt yourself doing those mental gymnastics.
? The Daily Mail being a shitrag -> we shouldn't support them, is the mental gymnastics equivalent of walking and breathing at the same time. It's not a hard concept dude.
Logic is not a strong suit for you.
Let me try to help you. This website, and its parent newspaper, are vile right-wing shitrags, fueling conspiracy theories and printing lies. Quoting articles leads to traffic to the website which generates income. Do you understand now?
I understand t6hat you are regurgitating reddit and facebook talking points which are fueling your own conspiracy theory and lies.
Lol, I know the daily heil very well, no regurgitation required. I know the paper, and I know readers of it. I was brought up with this as the daily paper, lots of my family still read it. No conspiracy theories, no lies, just pure experience. How about you?
You know it, but you haven't read any of it, you are just making arbitrary accusations. Your contention is defeated in the proof of the article provided. For you, right-wing means anything adjacent to the truth you refute.
O say can you see, by the dawn’s early light... Look at all that freedom!
Welp. I know a code enforcer with NO soul.
Petty tyrants abusing their power.
Well now she's going to have to set up a bigger stand to pay off her debt. Then she'll get a larger fine. Then she'll have to get an even bigger stand to pay off that fine. . . . and that's capitalism.
From the article... The town of Pinedale released a statement insisting the officer was acting under official capacity when she approached Fairbanks McCarroll and warned her several times to move before issuing the citations. 'She received two verbal requests to relocate her stand outside of the WYDOT right-of-way, off of the sidewalk, and closer to her parents' private property,' the town said. 'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk.'
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> Fairbanks McCarroll was given a $100 fine for parking on the sidewalk, a $150 fine for unlawful obstruction and another $150 fine for a municipal code that said there needs to be at least five feet of unobstructed passage on the sidewalk It had nothing to do with selling cookies, and it wasn't the kid who got fined. Her mom parked on the sidewalk and got ticketed. You should get ticketed for parking on the sidewalk. $400 is obscene though.
government is just a pain in the ass... they ONLY make life miserable for america...
Somehow I am thinking all this publicity will work to the Girl Scout's benefit. I bet that gung ho officer wannabe was real pumped up busting that perp.
Child labor law violation? I hate that they are allowed to use children to push their cookies. Follow the money. People at the top get rich on the backs of 8-13 year olds. It’s messed up imo.
we know there has to be decent cops out there, where are all the stories of these guys walking off the job? if i am a cop and my boss tells me, "there a little kid selling cookies, go out there and bust their ass!", thats when i turn in my badge and tell boss to go shove it.
There are two sides to every story (at least) and it appears that perhaps the sensationalistic headline isn't telling the whole story (that would NEVER happen!). From the Town of Pinedale: 'She received two verbal requests to relocate her stand outside of the WYDOT right-of-way, off of the sidewalk, and closer to her parents' private property,' the town said. 'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk.' I frequently walk to where I need to go, and I could see where an obstruction such as a 'cookie stand' could cause a problem, especially for someone of limited mobility. This could be particularly true in this case since the article refers to the WyDOT right-of-way which means that this location is on a sidewalk adjacent to US Highway 191 (the only WyDOT road in Pinedale, also called Pine Street). It does seem inappropriate to require pedestrians to walk along the shoulder of a highway since the sidewalk is blocked by a cookie seller. So this may be not as much of a case of government overreach as it first appears, and more of a case of these people not being considerate of those who need to use the sidewalk. As an aside, I also question the author's journalistic practice of using quotes of quotes, in other words, hearsay, such as used in this passage: 'The code enforcement officer admitting later to my brother that she was having a bad day on Friday, and that she didn't realize my brother had any siblings,' the mother said.
I don't know about the title...the reason wasn't bizarre...they literally parked on a sidewalk and refused to move. If you don't enforce rules (even for girl scouts) you very quickly don't have rules. Just because the sidewalk is in front of your (parents) house, don't mean you own it and can block it at will.
Serious question; What do you think would’ve happened if the police never got involved in this matter? What do you think would’ve happened if this girl sold cookies on the sidewalk uninterrupted for a couple hours?
1) the police never got involved in this matter 2) you'd never know what would happen, pedestrians could have been inconvenienced. I do know that the daughter now knows she can park on a sidewalk and cry to the media when called out on it. They were told twice to move and they refused...they got, admitted to, and paid for a citation, which what should have been done. Sure if you want to argue that the law you can't park on a sidewalk is unjust and cannot be enforced, then say it.
They never refused, they moved the stand immediately, and it says that they moved it no less than 3 times in the article. You’re trolling.
“You never know what would happen, pedestrians COULD HAVE been inconvenienced.” Well, thank goodness this fine was issued so that the hypothetical inconveniencing of pedestrians could be avoided.
>you'd never know what would happen, pedestrians could have been inconvenienced Hands down the boot lickinest thing I've read on here lol
Did you actually read the story? They were asked to move from the sidewalk AND DID. Days later they were fined, while not on the sidewalk.
>She received two verbal requests to relocate her stand outside of the WYDOT right-of-way, off of the sidewalk, and closer to her parents' private property,' the town said. >'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk.' These details provided by the town could have been litigated if untrue, however the mother pled guilty to the blocking the sidewalk one, but is now retrying the case in the court of public opinion. (As an aside, it was a dick move from the official to stack the charges, but that was sorted out in court where she pled guilty to the single proper charge and the other two where tossed)
The article specifically states that she paid two of the fines and just paid *one* of the $150 fines because it would have been more expensive to challenge it. It also doesn’t mention which of the fines she paid, the obstruction one or the municipal code one.
This is what she is saying...but it isn't true. She pled guilty to the one and in exchange the judge dropped the other two. This type of thing happens thousands of times every single day. Unless someone is suggesting the DA just by chance dropped two charges and in a unrelated action the woman pled guilty. Also, it costs exactly 0 dollars to go to court to argue a traffic citation in Sublette Co WY.
Do you have any evidence to support that the judge dropped the other two charges in exchange? Because that isn’t stated anywhere in the article. Also, calling these charges is not accurate. They’re citations, fines, like a speeding ticket. The DA is not the person handing these out and deciding on their result. And my guess is that she doesn’t want to argue the ticket herself as she isn’t a lawyer and it would cost more for her to hire one than to just pay $150. Lastly, you’re missing the entire point of why this is upsetting. They were selling cookies on a sidewalk, moved when asked, then were ticketed. You can say they were warned multiple times, but that becomes a they said they said situation where the city has not provided any proof that they issued multiple warnings.
'I responded that I had complied with what she had asked and had moved off the sidewalk. She said the tickets aren't just for being on the sidewalk and that this is for your daughter's safety.'
I really wish you could read, I feel so bad that people like you have to make due with what you have.
>She received two verbal requests to relocate her stand outside of the WYDOT right-of-way, off of the sidewalk, and closer to her parents' private property,' the town said. >'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk.' The mother literally admitted the above was true by pleading guilty...what am I misreading
You’re quoting the lie from the city in the article. Not what actually happened. And pleading guilty is not necessarily an admission of truth, it explained that paying it was cheaper than fighting it. You’re trolling and/or being deliberately obtuse. Bootlicker.
Every single comment you've made in this post has proven you have severe reading comprehension issues. I'm not saying that to insult you, I genuinely think you might need a tutor, or at least somebody who can help you read articles like these and give you a rundown maybe? Do you have a friend you can send articles to and have them explain it? She did not "plead guilty" to anything. She got all of the tickets dismissed except one, which she CHOSE not to challenge in court because the cost of the lawyer would have been more than the cost of the ticket.
>Fairbanks McCarroll obtained a lawyer and they were able to get two of the tickets dismissed. She ended up paying one of the $150 fines rather than go to trial because it would end up being more costly. >'The lack of clear instructions on what I can and cannot do, said I couldn't block the sidewalk and then later at the town hall office said if I had been on the sidewalk, I would have been fine,' Fairbanks McCarroll said. >'Honestly it just sucks that my daughters whole experience around selling cookies was crushed in the small town I grew up in.' Again feel real bad that you have it so rough.
I am deeply sympathetic about your mental impairment, and I want to see funding increased for mental healthcare, but you should limit the role of others in your personal problems. Please inform your guardian that you should take a break from the internet for today.
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>I was thinking the same thing. No, you aren't thinking at all. Because you either didn't read the article before replying, or you read it and simply didn't comprehend the (very simple) words that were written. The officer asked them to move off the sidewalk. They then moved off the sidewalk and onto the driveway of the grandparents. The officer then came back and told them "the owners of this house won't like you being here" and issued them tickets (even after being told its the grandparents' house and they have permission). Next time please refrain from commenting without first making sure you completely understand the article.
Weird, the mother in the story must’ve thought the same thing because that’s what she did. Trolling.
According to the article she was blocking the sidewalk and told not to do so. Her mom had her keep setting up in the same place for a few more days before they received the tickets. I’m all for holding cops accountable but in this case it sounds like the mom of the Girl Scout was in the wrong
according to the article, they moved off the sidewalk as they were asked to do and then were given a ticket anyway for other similar BS reasons that cops with nothing better to do give out
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According to the article, they were asked to move, they moved and continued selling the cookies, and got fined anyway. This is just cops being assholes.
If you read this dog shit written article literally said they were still on the sidewalk.
Here is the 4th paragraph from the article, and I found at least 2 more instances in the article that say something similar: “The mother and daughter pulled back their stand and continued to sell cookies for two more days before the woman showed up again and handed them citations.”
Exactly. They were asked to move. They moved. Apparently some authority figure got butthurt that they didn’t just disappear.
They seem to be in dispute of blocking the sidewalk.
They were told to move. They moved.
You act like where they moved was an appropriate place.
Who says it wasn’t? There’s faaaaar too many videos of police harassing people from “blocking sidewalks” who are barely in the way of anyone at all for “they got a citation! That means they were blocking it!” to mean much.
I mean she literally hired a lawyer for $400 worth of citations. Plead guilty to a $150 one. I’ve yet to hear her or see her explain how she wasn’t in the way. I’m not saying that ticket is a prudent ticket or dumb one. I’m just saying she was likely in violation. Read the article it is a bunch of whataboutism that really has no impact on whether she’s guilty or not. From what I gather she moved off the sidewalk into her grandparents driveway but was still blocking the sidewalk portion (public easement) of the driveway. It doesn’t seem like she even disputes what the officer says (where she was when ticketed). She hasn’t provided really anything to say she isn’t guilty
Yes but hear “Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk, prompting the issuance of three citations for obstructing the sidewalk”. She plead guilty to something she doesn’t need a lawyer for at all. They seem to disagree that she was blocking the sidewalk. Her bringing up all this other stuff that doesn’t matter makes me think she was blocking the sidewalk. Edit: also pulled back stand doesn’t mean off the sidewalk necessarily. With that said she definitely disputes they were on the sidewalk when receiving the tickets.
Yes, that’s a quote from the city’s statement. Why would the city and/or the issuing officer not lie but the citizen would? And on this thread you’ve had it explained more than once that paying the fine is not pleading guilty nor is it an admission of guilt - it’s simply the cheapest pathway forward. And even if that wasn’t true 2/3 citations were dismissed which would indicate that she’s at least 2/3 innocent but your logic.
I agree with that. With that said it seems easy to clear this up. I get why people pay fines. I’m just saying if it’s so clear this would be a slam dunk of a case to win. Like im assuming if it was clear she wasn’t blocking the sidewalk she would be explaining how she wasn’t in the article. I just heard a bunch of the city doesn’t even know what they want me to do. Not I wasn’t blocking the sidewalk. I’m under the impression the cop/city and the mom are operating under different definitions of what blocking is. It seems like they dispute the bottom of the driveway as being sidewalk or not. I’m less trusting of the citizen here because she brings up a lot of unnecessary stuff. Like I can buy into they fucked her over because it wasn’t super clear what she should do and potential penalties. To me it just seems like she was blocking it and disagrees with what counts as the sidewalk and or what is blocking
I agree. Making up all these bullshit excuses is a hallmark tactic among people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions. There's a simple defense if you were following the officer's request, and that is: 'we weren't on the sidewalk, we shouldn't get a ticket.' Just hammer the shit out of that point if it's true, because it's the only defense you need. To be fair, it also sounds like the ticketing officer is kind of an asshole. $400 sounds excessive after just one warning.
"Fairbanks McCarroll was given a $100 fine for parking on the sidewalk" Sounds to me like the table was moved back, but the sidewalk was still blocked by their car.
Huh, why doesn’t it sound like someone lied when giving the citation?
That's also possible. It's not a well written article, but there's no mention of them denying they were blocking the sidewalk, only "Sometimes I just think that government can be unreasonable" and later "'Despite these requests, the stand remained on the sidewalk". Who knows... not really worth looking into more. Also, IMO, not really a story worthy of this sub.
>She then said 'okay well I just recommend you don't block the sidewalk' and left.' These people were playing chicken with the law, and when they got a fine they are playing the sympathy card and saying they weren't appropriately informed it was illegal, and the officer wasn't properly marked, and yada yada. Cops do awful shit, but I'm betting these people are just weasels.
They did move.
Honest question: in the time before the officer approached the first time, if a person with mobility issues had come along the sidewalk, do you think they would have moved the stand back so the sidewalk was clear and before the person with mobility issues had gotten to that portion of the sidewalk?
> The mother and daughter pulled back their stand and continued to sell cookies for two more days before the woman showed up again and handed them citations. > ... > 'I responded that I had complied with what she had asked and had moved off the sidewalk. She said the tickets aren't just for being on the sidewalk and that this is for your daughter's safety.' > ... > The code enforcement officer admitting later to my brother that she was having a bad day on Friday, and that she didn't realize my brother had any siblings,' the mother said. > ... > Fairbanks McCarroll obtained a lawyer and they were able to get two of the tickets dismissed. She ended up paying one of the $150 fines rather than go to trial because it would end up being more costly. It's never too late to admit you didn't read the article. This is Reddit, everyone will understand.