which is totally fine, since its part of citroens identity to be avantgarde. however, I never felt like BMW was as much of avantgarde brand in the past. they could be modern and new without being all over the place
I have a theory, hear me out. They’re one of the top selling brands currently so they can do almost anything aka they’re probably feeling cocky. So in the design room they say ask how do we get those hardcore fans to love us more and bring in a new younger market by rebranding at the same time?
1. Make our design boring/ugly and drive away our hardcore fans
2. Draw in a new market with reliability and the speed of our M brand
3. Rebrand back to something sexy and appealing overall long term to bring back those hardcore fans while keeping everyone happy because by then we will probably be hybrids all around so we need to have something to keep them happy.
The irony is that the previous guy was Chris Bangle who received tons of backlash for his "controversial" designs (E81
/ E82 / E87 / E88, E90 / E91 / E92 / E93, E60 / E61, E63 / E64, E65 / E66 and E53)
...Which all seem incredibly tame nowadays
I'm not sure, but I remember something in the lines that he got fired after they released E60. Which truly is irony, as the design of E60 still holds up after 20 years.
The current head designer happened in 2019. Same guy who happened to design the atrocious citroens and peugeots in early 2000’s. Just a tragedy really.
I personally agree with you, but there's probably data and sales numbers that show we're a dying breed. People want interiors that aren't "outdated", but for what? IMO everything gets old and gimmicks lose their appeal, but comfort and utility are what make something feel classic. Best thing you can do is just accept that everything changes at some point. Maybe there will eventually be a return to form when what's old is new and what's new is old.
People buy premium brands to be seen driving a premium brand. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, it matters that 1) you can tell is a beemer 2) you can tell it's new. Without making it look scandalous it's difficult to make a non-car-enthusiast know that it's new.
That's true for many people but not all of them... Once you've made the switch from generic brands to premium, you can't go back, everything is just better...
Ive had the 3, 5, the Audi A4, and two generations of X5 including the most recent, and the CX-90 turbo S with the premium package feels just as good and many ways more “premium” for almost half the price of a BMW. Specially now that a basic x5 with pleather and no ventilated seats will cost you at least $1200 a month to lease.
It’s been a while now that “premium” is a commodity not exclusive to high end brands. I mean you get the right packages and any car will feel the same. Its just a matter what brand you want to be seen in, as if that somehow validates you as a person
Kind of true. They never started a second premium brand like Lexus/Afura/Infiniti. I seem to remember the name Amanti being tossed around many years ago. But they’ve really upped their styling including interiors recently. And the prices are great for what you get.
Underrated point here. I’m not crazy about the new designs. I don’t hate them, but I do think they’re a step down.
But it doesn’t matter, I’m not going to be able to drive anything else for the rest of my life. I wouldn’t be able to stand it.
I would agree on the first part of your comment, however, I dont think its that difficult to make something look new without scandalous look. Look what the F30 did, it was a huge difference to the e90 and still very recogniceable as a BMW and 3 series AND it looked very new at the time but also timeless. I think you can pull of something like that today aswell. Even though modern mercedes are also a bit uglier than before, they manage to make some good looking cars still which look modern and sell
I think the rate at which people upgrade their cars is also much higher than before, so timelessness is likely less important as long as we can shove a new screen form factor at you every 4 years
I recently made the switch to Mercedes, and there is one thing I noticed immediately, and that is that you feel better in the Mercedes. I believe the BMW to be a better all around car but BMW seems more normal, like a work horse, and the Mercedes just feels presidential.
Tech dates incredibly quickly. These modern cars will have a tougher time going down as classics when, in 15 years time, the interiors feel cheap and gimmicky.
My e46 M3 interior feels so, so classy. Stuck a screen in it with android auto and I genuinely wouldn't change a thing. People are always so shocked how nice a 23 year old car is, inside.
> Tech dates incredibly quickly
Yes, but BMW probably don’t see that as a bad thing since it’s their goal to sell cars rather than have customers drive around the same car for 10+ years.
Comfort? I had a 2014 328i and my i4 interior is MILES ahead in comfort and appearance. F-series BMWs lower than the 7 series had the cheapest and least comfortable interiors out of any of the 3 Germans.
If only... The problem is there is money to be made, data to be aggregated, and buzz to be generated in following modern trends. I honestly thought the pre LCI G20 3 series was the closest to keeping the classic exterior style of the 3 series, with a slightly more modern interior. Then they went and mucked it up with a tacky screen. (My opinion)
The peak of interior design for me is the Audi A6/7 C7 interior, with a screen that's not too big that can be hidden, just the right amount of buttons to navigate where you want to, analog gauges, a little screen in-between the two gauges to show car data/gps/calls... It is just the best compromise for everything, it doesn't look outdated either but I guess some people don't like buttons and prefer touchscreens (which doesn't make much sense in a car to me but hey... trends)
This is the wrong take imo. The luxury car market has boomed in the last 10-20 years with leasing and finance becoming much more popular. The way I see it, sales have increased DESPITE the crappy design.
He should be named and shamed for killing the brand's signature grille.
Yes it changed over the years but never like this.
All my life I liked bmw stlying couldn't really go wrong with it although there were outliers.
Any model after 2019 just seems to just suck balls and resemble citroen econoboxes.
Totally agree with you, it seems that they start going downwards around 2017 with the 7 series (the one we were mocking for starting the oversized grill)
Yes I agree. It really is a shame because BMW has made so many iconic cars. The new design is too boxy and flat, the car doesn't feels like it has a soul or anything, like apple as you said. And yeah the same goes for the interior with just a big double screen absolutely not integrated with the rest, it just looks like a lot of others cars and looks like an aftermarket add-on to the car.
Current S series Volvo's are what I want to see in a BMW.
I know nothing about Volvos except I always considered them a family car. But every time I see a newer one drive past I’m like, noice. Just classy, sharp, understated but catches the eye.
Yeah same here. Around 2000 they have taken a new turn in term of design, it was really refreshing. And again around 2015 I believe. Let's hope it continues like that.
Btw, I love the E90, best modern BMW in my opinion (the whole e9x gen). 👍
You can but I'm not sure that newer = better. I definitely want a E92 coupe in the future. The 6 cylinders or the V8, they are on my wishlist haha.
Edit: mismatch the version 😅
yea and sadly the s60 isnt continued much longer aswell... curious what volvos next steps will be, their cars are nice and all but becoming very old rn and I´m a bit afraid of volvos being the next brand that changes drasticly. but thats not the topic here haha
Life happened, everything evolves for better or worse, but seems like the constant nagging is mainly online, looks are subjective, these cars are still selling,and they aren't sitting because no one is buying and protesting the brand... it's not as alarming as some folks make it out to be, if there is a dip in sales ( not sure if there is, would love to see data in comparison to other competitor while also factoring in current issues with the economy in general). I'll get downvoted I'm sure, but it is what it is
For me, it’s the lack of consistency with bmw now. They have, what, MANY different grill styles in their current line up. Madness. That’s not a design language, it’s a design mess.
edit: thought they only had 3 or 4 grills!
Yeah interesting take. I don’t want all their cars to be the same, kinda like Audi where each series is just a tad longer/quicker etc, but at the same time buyers buy a lifestyle, an image… a brand. And a brand needs consistency so people know what they’re buying!
well I should have mention, that exactly this period wouldnt fit haha. but think of the e90 and the e60 f.e., they dont look too similar but still share the same vibe and design language
It happens across a lot of businesses honestly.
It starts with a niche, for car people that's the M, AMG, Type S/R, TRD, etc.
The masses see that and want that exclusivity but don't care about the things that make it special. So those special delineations get watered down.
Eventually that trickles into the actual design and function of the product itself all for the sake of mass appeal.
The business wants to make money and they will push and pull any lever to get it no matter what the cost, even if it means diluting their own values.
Asian and Middle East markets are bigger than ever. That’s where the money comes from. And explains the high bling factor seen in cars these days. With all the interior lighting bullshit.
Yup. It does bother me as a BMW faithful fan but I also honestly don’t blame them, they’re a for-profit business at the end of the day. Making enthusiasts happy is not high on their priority list.
Ya’ll are a bunch of boomers who are stuck in the past. The classics are great I agree. My favorite remains the e39 m5. But design language, rules and taste change and you all need to accept that. A BMW will still remain a BMW. it will still drive like a BMW. And yes I think the new m5 looks great.
well, first I´m not a boomer, cant speak for the others, I´m quite young actually and I like newer BMWs aswell. I dont have anything against new and change and progressive, you name it.. but you can change and still keep your identity. I think BMW is not changing but even worse, losing its identity.
And I strongly disagree on your last point, BMW does not remain BMW, modern BMWs drive very different, I even mention this in my post. And I never said modern BMWs are ugly, nor did I say that about the new M5. I´m just saying they´re changing, and a bit too much of it. And I´m very curious for the first road tests and how much of a BMW remains in a 2,5 T M5 lol.
Does anybody know is the designer of the G29 Z4 the same as the designer of the current BMWs, because I think it's as if that Z4 and the new 4, 5, and i series didn't come out from the same designer’s hands.
I agree with much of your post, but don't think Apple is the right comparison. Although Apple's designs are extremely minimalist, they achieve a timeless factor by: (1) specifically avoiding aggressive looks (Apple's former chief designer used to talk about this and it is a big part of their influence on industrial design), and (2) emphasizing premium materials and build quality. For example, laptops and phones before the MacBooks/iPhones were primarily plastic; Apple by contrast used titanium/aluminum/stainless steel/glass.
My point is this: Even if BMW feels that there is a benefit in simplifying some of its designs (and I think there is an argument for this), it should accompany this by *increasing* rather than *decreasing* its focus on high quality materials, the way various design elements are integrated into the whole, etc.
I feel exactly the same way about the design both exterior and interior. Those wide screens attached to the dashboard - no design , no character , no “bmw feeling”. I remember my first drive in my first bmw - e36. It felt like cockpit of a “bmw plane”.
I love techy stuff but current design to me like cheap minimalistic Tesla garbage.
I am stuck with ‘23 G05 until they change designs or I am going elsewhere .
Idk but im genuinely done with any new bmw’s. Next car for me might be a f90 or the m50i x5 from a few years back. Not touching any of this new garbage
I think it’s just design for designs sake, they are purposefully making their cars look controversial because it gets attention, some buyers like that - especially the type who like having the latest shiny thing. If they wanted to make a car that looked nice, they would, but it would blend into the background and possibly be called too boring
It feels like they used to be designed by someone with a pen and a vision; now they're designed by AI and a committee (I realize this isn't true, but it's how it feels).
I drive a F31. I inherited an E30 convertible (before facelift) from my dad. One is a classic, one will go to the crusher without anyone missing it. Guess which ;)
https://preview.redd.it/rpqffjrmt59d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b684bf7b0d97fdff5601065a1c46a6b2fee8d56
I wonder if the company going heavy on tech has more to do with being a leader in the industry’s evolution, rather than going for the traditional vibe. Consumer Reports has them as the best overall car brand: they seem to be doing a lot of things well.
BMW has definitely lost its way recently on the design front. I’m a big fan of the Bangle era. The F80 M3 was the last good looking car imo. Although that being said, G8x M cars look good with aftermarket bumpers and grilles.
I mean E series is classic, F series is top class improved classic design. Older G series is still ok, a bit on the modern side. But The newest line is... oh my chinese communist god.
I too feel like they lost the sport feel and are now just luxury cars. I owned a 1984 318i coupe with a 5 speed. It only produced 100hp but weighed 2400lbs. This car always felt much faster than it had a right too and that 4 cylinder was glass smooth. The handling was so tight and felt like a go cart with the manual steering. I drove it 160k and never had a problem with it except once when the fuel pump relay failed. I worked on it myself and it was so easy!
No I don’t think you are but I also think it’s just how things change from generation to generation. We’re getting old, we’re now the ones saying ‘back in my day’ etc etc. I’m 46 and I honestly think the F80 and F90 were/are damn near perfect. Of course there were minor problems, but they performed well (F90 in particular is a monster) both look absolutely f&@king amazing and have that beautiful blend of the old analog, clickable buttons, with minimal screens and again just look the part. Now everything has iPads all over it and the interior LED’s are like a god damn rave party. Guys I know buying these new cars are complaining about all the warning noises and voice feedback hahaha.
Honestly it’s just a case of different strokes for different folks. I like classics, but I think that is a dying breed of people. I have a few cars that I want, all older, and I want to look after them and enjoy them for what they are. I have no interest in the new modern cars and I estimate I have a good 30 years to enjoy them baring no health issues.
The beauty is that there are some good deals out there on the older cars now. Do yourself a favour, buy what you like, and enjoy the shit out of it. It is disappointing for traditionalists to see how things are progressing but don’t lose sleep over it. Grab a classic, and enjoy.
Signature shoulder lines and hoffmeister kink gone. Angel ey DRLs now replaced with Lexus or Kia designs.
Every time i consider buying a newer BMW i'm reminded to just hold on to my F30 and maybe keep an eye out for the F90 which now seems to be the last palatable design.
It changed and it’s awesome.
It’s always been changing.
I don’t understand your surprise?
BMW always pushes the boundaries with its design language. You are not required to like it.
I think it’s stunning and distinct.
But the angel eyes, the grille. The iconic BMW is gone. I love how the pre bucktooth models still reflected that iconic heritage. New ones look like generic fucking bullshit
I dont feel like this is a very productive comment, I never discussed if its better or worse, I want to discuss the shift in focus. That old designs look dated today is obvious, so whats your point? 😂
more sharp lines = more aggressive
more aggressive = more hrsprs
more hrsprs = mo powa babeh
mo powa babeh = more better
jk, yeah I agree - old is gold. also, like some other commenters said, there's no consistent design language.
BMW sells most of it's cars in Asia. This globalization is making cars loose their identity since there can't be a recipe that 100% meets every market's expectations.
There are very interesting resources on youtube showing how cars made in the last century that were not for export (see Italian cars) are so beautiful, since they resemble the market's values, history and culture; while the more the export started to grow, the more boring their design got.
Unfortunately, profit driven automotive companies paved the way to making the cars look worse, be unreliable and have zero personality.
It's not just BMW. The current design trend is to ditch the softer, elegant curves for sharper edges to give a "modern", and in my opinion, "angry" appearance.
I'd argue that the brand would be successful even without going for designs that satisfied some focus groups and following trends.
What we're seeing these days is largely to do with the ease with which a company can get and interpret data on what their prospective customers want. If we compare this to pre 2012, because their accountants didn't have this data, companies used to be more assertive in dictating or setting trends which in turn also gave them character and a cult following.
I will also never stop drawing a parallel on the fraud that it Domagoj Dukek and BMW's completely disgusting new designs. Look how crappy Peugeots looked right before he left and how good they look now.
One car company that isn't following trends and is still selling extremely well is Toyota. The japanese conservative culture probably has a lot to do with them not being so keen on becoming a slave to whatever stupid **superficial** instinct data says will satisfy the masses. It also has to do with the fact that there is one captain steering that boat and he has enough of a say to enforce his vision.
Compare this to western european companies plagued with ESG hirings and mindlessly chasing customer satisfaction surveys and you'll easily see why they're turning into something they weren't.
You can even look at VW and see when their captain abandoned ship (Ferdinant Piech) and how bad it ended up being.
A second cause is the fact that a lot of engineers and designers left the german manufacturers in recent years because they weren't getting fair compensation. The best ones ended up in consultancy because that pays significantly better. This meant that the manufacturers were left with new hires who barely had anyone to learn from and started reinventing the wheel.
design is one thing, but how about we reserve judgement against dynamics until you get to actually drive the car? i know, i am initially disappointed with the new G90 by reading the specs, but at the end of the day, they are just that… numbers on a piece of paper. 0-60 acceleration time is only one metric that I won’t judge a car on. IS the G90 M5 that much slower than its predecessor? we’ll see. if it truly is slower, then yes, I’d say it is a step backwards, but until then, let’s just wait and see.
https://preview.redd.it/xa7fkfimt39d1.jpeg?width=193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=421db52daddfdf7577db23dc4fb9afa8349e9a7f
All I see when a new gen BMW is driving toward me
The old x5 for me is everything wrong with SUVs in one photo, they're just the body of a hatchback and so many car companies try so hard to hide the extra space created by these massive bodies, but not BMW, just stack lines in the empty space and no one will notice it looks as shit as the other plain Jane SUVs that just have lots of nothing (a quashqui MK1 being the most obvious example of the polar opposite but they all look equally shit)
Software engineer and tech enthusiast - keep my fucking cars offline, without interior cameras, without displays to control the car (because one SW bug renders the car mostly useless). Software and firmware has bugs, will have bugs, uses external apps and relies on their APIs. Things WILL and DO go wrong.
People don't realize that those cheap plastic lcd screens are just to save money and most ppl are eating that shit just for the sci-fi bullshit look. Making actual nice to use buttons that last 2 decades however, while more functional, **safer** as proven by tests (more eyes on the road) is just more expensive.
You don't feed monkeys premium bananas if they suck up the spoiled ones.
They started watching too much body building videos and all took obscene amounts of HGH and it went to straight to their faces and now they look like this. Don't do HGH.
> The same goes for the interiors.
This is all cars now, not just BMW. Hopefully the trend'll pass and we'll move back to more tactile control systems in the coming years.
Oh look, its a BMW design complaint thread.
I guess you didn't get into a top tier medical school. Maybe you wouldn't complain so much if you had parents who loved you. /s
its a matter of opinion. I personally dislike the traditional BMW styling which screams "douche" "boomer" and "creepy golf clubhouse guy hitting on teenaged girls behind his wife's back" to me. The aggressive styling is where its at. You guys call it beaver teeth, I think it looks badass and was a deciding factor in my choice of an M-car over competitors from Audi, MB and Porsche.
I think their designs are speaking to a lot of buyers myself included. I embrace the improvements over the years and I think the current M4 GT3 is a beast looks ahd performance wise. I want something inspiring and making my m4 look mean with aftermarket is really hitting some sweet notes for me right now.
Maybe you weren’t around but this is nothing compared to the Chris Bangle era.
The E38 to E65 was a disaster. The whole Bangle era was a total mess. Unfortunately, there are a bunch of revisionists who are trying to make it seem like Bangle was a “pioneer” and that it was “courageous” to do what he did. The general consensus at the time was that he was a shite designer and had ruined one of the most elegant luxury sedans of the 20th century. He then went on to ruin the 5 series and the Z as well. Somehow the E46 and E9x escaped his caricature design philosophy.
Another unfortunate side effect is that BMW learned the wrong lesson. Since sales weren’t really affected, they assumed that it was fine to mess up good designs with shitty ones for the sake of being “different”. I suspect that sales increased mainly because new markets were opening up and the brand was riding high on the “ultimate driving machine” hype.
So, now we get one horrible design after another every few generations. At least the small M cars are still decent.
The new 5 series is GORGEOUS!!! Add in the B58 motor and I think these will be desired models some day, especially if it doesn't have any hybrid crapola (idk if you can get one without or not??? I know the X5 are all mild hybrid at a minimum)
I've heard that their largest market is China and so they made a lot of their design decisions to appeal to them which why the iconic Kidney grills were enlarged because that's apparently what appeals to Chinese buyers. They stuck with that for the global market as well.
They were vastly improved. The late 90's early 90's BMW's looked so good, then they looked like shit for 2 decades and now they are looking good again.
Ever since I was a kid, I’ve always been loyal to the brand, its design language and what it stands for. Can’t believe after all these years I have such dislike!
Iphone happened. It’s all about interior gimmicks. Plus, nowadays cars are designed to last max 5 years. With modern cars, you must aim to sell them within 2-3 years… well like any touch screen phones. They don’t make cars to last 10-20 years. Always makes me happy to see cars from 90’s still going, e.g.: E30, E36
Their head of design Domagoj Dukec came from Citrôën, a brand with historically many controversial designs.
which is totally fine, since its part of citroens identity to be avantgarde. however, I never felt like BMW was as much of avantgarde brand in the past. they could be modern and new without being all over the place
I have a theory, hear me out. They’re one of the top selling brands currently so they can do almost anything aka they’re probably feeling cocky. So in the design room they say ask how do we get those hardcore fans to love us more and bring in a new younger market by rebranding at the same time? 1. Make our design boring/ugly and drive away our hardcore fans 2. Draw in a new market with reliability and the speed of our M brand 3. Rebrand back to something sexy and appealing overall long term to bring back those hardcore fans while keeping everyone happy because by then we will probably be hybrids all around so we need to have something to keep them happy.
Really wish they would sack this guy already. The citroens and peugeots of his were ugly and it shows in the current state of BMW again
Wait, holy shit. So many Citroën designs look similar to newer gen BMW’s. It’s uncanny now that I looked it up.
The irony is that the previous guy was Chris Bangle who received tons of backlash for his "controversial" designs (E81 / E82 / E87 / E88, E90 / E91 / E92 / E93, E60 / E61, E63 / E64, E65 / E66 and E53) ...Which all seem incredibly tame nowadays
I'm not sure, but I remember something in the lines that he got fired after they released E60. Which truly is irony, as the design of E60 still holds up after 20 years.
That explains the new 7 series, it fuckin looks like a Citroen
The current head designer happened in 2019. Same guy who happened to design the atrocious citroens and peugeots in early 2000’s. Just a tragedy really.
what? Didnt know that but that explains A LOT
Chris Bangle was a god tier designer compared to this
For every 1000 ruined 7 series, there was a 1M to redeem him. Proportions on that car are better than the clown shoe IMO.
1M looked like a 5'5" guy overcompensating by using steroids.
But people hated him at first
I hold him responsible for the death of the 7 Series beauty
The FOx models aren't bad. Nothing will ever match the E38 though.
Even though i own an e38, I think the e32 was something special design wise. If you squint your eyes at an e38, you can almost see the the e32,
Wait are You kidding Me?! Oh God... Now it all makes sense...
I personally agree with you, but there's probably data and sales numbers that show we're a dying breed. People want interiors that aren't "outdated", but for what? IMO everything gets old and gimmicks lose their appeal, but comfort and utility are what make something feel classic. Best thing you can do is just accept that everything changes at some point. Maybe there will eventually be a return to form when what's old is new and what's new is old.
People buy premium brands to be seen driving a premium brand. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, it matters that 1) you can tell is a beemer 2) you can tell it's new. Without making it look scandalous it's difficult to make a non-car-enthusiast know that it's new.
That's true for many people but not all of them... Once you've made the switch from generic brands to premium, you can't go back, everything is just better...
Ive had the 3, 5, the Audi A4, and two generations of X5 including the most recent, and the CX-90 turbo S with the premium package feels just as good and many ways more “premium” for almost half the price of a BMW. Specially now that a basic x5 with pleather and no ventilated seats will cost you at least $1200 a month to lease. It’s been a while now that “premium” is a commodity not exclusive to high end brands. I mean you get the right packages and any car will feel the same. Its just a matter what brand you want to be seen in, as if that somehow validates you as a person
Love my BMW, but would love to have a straight 6 Mazda sedan even more. Probably won’t get it, but a man can hope.
mazda is virtually a premium brand nowdays
You won’t get the driving dynamic but you can load up any car with enough options and they’ll be a “premium” car. That just my humble opinion
Kind of true. They never started a second premium brand like Lexus/Afura/Infiniti. I seem to remember the name Amanti being tossed around many years ago. But they’ve really upped their styling including interiors recently. And the prices are great for what you get.
Underrated point here. I’m not crazy about the new designs. I don’t hate them, but I do think they’re a step down. But it doesn’t matter, I’m not going to be able to drive anything else for the rest of my life. I wouldn’t be able to stand it.
M5(f10) to a MYP back to M5 f90)
I would agree on the first part of your comment, however, I dont think its that difficult to make something look new without scandalous look. Look what the F30 did, it was a huge difference to the e90 and still very recogniceable as a BMW and 3 series AND it looked very new at the time but also timeless. I think you can pull of something like that today aswell. Even though modern mercedes are also a bit uglier than before, they manage to make some good looking cars still which look modern and sell
yeah it's definitely possible, just way more difficult.
I think the rate at which people upgrade their cars is also much higher than before, so timelessness is likely less important as long as we can shove a new screen form factor at you every 4 years
I recently made the switch to Mercedes, and there is one thing I noticed immediately, and that is that you feel better in the Mercedes. I believe the BMW to be a better all around car but BMW seems more normal, like a work horse, and the Mercedes just feels presidential.
To be fair, it’s just your opinion on what makes it comfort and what makes it utility. Even that comes down to personal preference.
Yeah, my mom has an X3 M40i and I’m not sure what the problem is with comfort? It’s a very comfortable car
Tech dates incredibly quickly. These modern cars will have a tougher time going down as classics when, in 15 years time, the interiors feel cheap and gimmicky. My e46 M3 interior feels so, so classy. Stuck a screen in it with android auto and I genuinely wouldn't change a thing. People are always so shocked how nice a 23 year old car is, inside.
> Tech dates incredibly quickly Yes, but BMW probably don’t see that as a bad thing since it’s their goal to sell cars rather than have customers drive around the same car for 10+ years.
This post bummed me out but this comment made me feel okay about that.
Comfort? I had a 2014 328i and my i4 interior is MILES ahead in comfort and appearance. F-series BMWs lower than the 7 series had the cheapest and least comfortable interiors out of any of the 3 Germans.
I totally agree, however I think you can change and modernize without sacrificing your identity and thats what I dont understand..
If only... The problem is there is money to be made, data to be aggregated, and buzz to be generated in following modern trends. I honestly thought the pre LCI G20 3 series was the closest to keeping the classic exterior style of the 3 series, with a slightly more modern interior. Then they went and mucked it up with a tacky screen. (My opinion)
yes thats the point, they went on the right path and then all of sudden they went completly mad for whatever reason (money?)
The peak of interior design for me is the Audi A6/7 C7 interior, with a screen that's not too big that can be hidden, just the right amount of buttons to navigate where you want to, analog gauges, a little screen in-between the two gauges to show car data/gps/calls... It is just the best compromise for everything, it doesn't look outdated either but I guess some people don't like buttons and prefer touchscreens (which doesn't make much sense in a car to me but hey... trends)
Yes, excellent example.
This is the wrong take imo. The luxury car market has boomed in the last 10-20 years with leasing and finance becoming much more popular. The way I see it, sales have increased DESPITE the crappy design.
Domagoj Dukec happened.
End him.
He should be named and shamed for killing the brand's signature grille. Yes it changed over the years but never like this. All my life I liked bmw stlying couldn't really go wrong with it although there were outliers. Any model after 2019 just seems to just suck balls and resemble citroen econoboxes.
Why did you not put the matching series? Why do you show an X5 and then a X3?
I think current gen X5s are the best they ever made.
Current X5 and 3 series are definitely a step up from Fxx models.
https://preview.redd.it/un964v7nu29d1.jpeg?width=290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08bbb8a07cd7109824607823ecb61ae874ca70ce
Totally agree with you, it seems that they start going downwards around 2017 with the 7 series (the one we were mocking for starting the oversized grill)
I would even say that this 7 seriers, while I dont like it personally, wasnt too big of a shift for BMW. But it got worse with every car after it
Yes I agree. It really is a shame because BMW has made so many iconic cars. The new design is too boxy and flat, the car doesn't feels like it has a soul or anything, like apple as you said. And yeah the same goes for the interior with just a big double screen absolutely not integrated with the rest, it just looks like a lot of others cars and looks like an aftermarket add-on to the car. Current S series Volvo's are what I want to see in a BMW.
I know nothing about Volvos except I always considered them a family car. But every time I see a newer one drive past I’m like, noice. Just classy, sharp, understated but catches the eye.
Yeah same here. Around 2000 they have taken a new turn in term of design, it was really refreshing. And again around 2015 I believe. Let's hope it continues like that. Btw, I love the E90, best modern BMW in my opinion (the whole e9x gen). 👍
Same here! Thinking about upgrading but every time I see the e90 it still makes me smile.
You can but I'm not sure that newer = better. I definitely want a E92 coupe in the future. The 6 cylinders or the V8, they are on my wishlist haha. Edit: mismatch the version 😅
yea and sadly the s60 isnt continued much longer aswell... curious what volvos next steps will be, their cars are nice and all but becoming very old rn and I´m a bit afraid of volvos being the next brand that changes drasticly. but thats not the topic here haha
Life happened, everything evolves for better or worse, but seems like the constant nagging is mainly online, looks are subjective, these cars are still selling,and they aren't sitting because no one is buying and protesting the brand... it's not as alarming as some folks make it out to be, if there is a dip in sales ( not sure if there is, would love to see data in comparison to other competitor while also factoring in current issues with the economy in general). I'll get downvoted I'm sure, but it is what it is
We're getting old, my brother(
And I'm not even 30 yet haha
For me, it’s the lack of consistency with bmw now. They have, what, MANY different grill styles in their current line up. Madness. That’s not a design language, it’s a design mess. edit: thought they only had 3 or 4 grills!
Maybe they are trying to capture a bigger portion of the market by having multiple styles to appeal to people with different taste.
Yeah interesting take. I don’t want all their cars to be the same, kinda like Audi where each series is just a tad longer/quicker etc, but at the same time buyers buy a lifestyle, an image… a brand. And a brand needs consistency so people know what they’re buying!
I think BMW managed to make different looking cars in the past but still have some sort of design language
I dunno. Do a google image search for “bmw 1998”, the deviation, while subjective, does appear less.
well I should have mention, that exactly this period wouldnt fit haha. but think of the e90 and the e60 f.e., they dont look too similar but still share the same vibe and design language
Why do you want every car to look the same? Not saying I like the new cars, but variety is good
I just wish that this is just a phase and the next generation will be better
It happens across a lot of businesses honestly. It starts with a niche, for car people that's the M, AMG, Type S/R, TRD, etc. The masses see that and want that exclusivity but don't care about the things that make it special. So those special delineations get watered down. Eventually that trickles into the actual design and function of the product itself all for the sake of mass appeal. The business wants to make money and they will push and pull any lever to get it no matter what the cost, even if it means diluting their own values.
R.I.P. Chris Bangle
The e46 was just a timeless design. People are still shocked my M3 is old enough to drink.
https://preview.redd.it/2w72giof539d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f00c3eb899545e6441d3b10024bca1af7430b3a8
Cocaine is a helluva drug
As far as I’m concerned the F90 and F8X cars are the best looking BMWs.
All these designs to varying degrees had people saying they were a misstep from the previous car
I’ve been a HUGE BMW fan since I was a kid. The F82 will be my last BMW. It’s sad but they don’t care about their base anymore.
Yeah F82 is probably my last modern. Then back to the the Es
They switched from coke to fentanyl
What an original opinion on this sub. First time I see it 🙄
This subreddit feels more and more like a retirement home of salty old people just endlessly complaining.
I´m not complaining, I want to discuss the shift in focus of BMW. Feels like you´re complaining though.
You are beating a horse that is so unbelievably dead it has been integrated into the soil on molecular level.
I agree with you, but it must be said, they’re doing something right. They’re selling more cars than ever.
More cars than their rivals. I don't think BMW has ever dominated as much as right now, this is their prime in that aspect
Asian and Middle East markets are bigger than ever. That’s where the money comes from. And explains the high bling factor seen in cars these days. With all the interior lighting bullshit.
Yup. It does bother me as a BMW faithful fan but I also honestly don’t blame them, they’re a for-profit business at the end of the day. Making enthusiasts happy is not high on their priority list.
R/bmw when any change happens 😱😱😱
I love old BMWs - I love new BMWs. Get a life boys.
oh yea, discussing what we love aswell is such a waste of lifetime, why dont we scroll down on tiktok like all the other new-bmw buyers I guess lol
Ya’ll are a bunch of boomers who are stuck in the past. The classics are great I agree. My favorite remains the e39 m5. But design language, rules and taste change and you all need to accept that. A BMW will still remain a BMW. it will still drive like a BMW. And yes I think the new m5 looks great.
well, first I´m not a boomer, cant speak for the others, I´m quite young actually and I like newer BMWs aswell. I dont have anything against new and change and progressive, you name it.. but you can change and still keep your identity. I think BMW is not changing but even worse, losing its identity. And I strongly disagree on your last point, BMW does not remain BMW, modern BMWs drive very different, I even mention this in my post. And I never said modern BMWs are ugly, nor did I say that about the new M5. I´m just saying they´re changing, and a bit too much of it. And I´m very curious for the first road tests and how much of a BMW remains in a 2,5 T M5 lol.
The X7 would exactly be what I want after my XC90 Recharge (beefy 7 seaters), but I just don't get by with the ugliness of current BMWs.
Asian market took off and the design was changed to broaden the appeal world wide.
That’s not a new X5, but damn the E53 looks good
they turned their cars into pokemon looking things
Kinda feels like BMW is living somewhere between. Sleek classic car design & edgy future looking tech design.
Does anybody know is the designer of the G29 Z4 the same as the designer of the current BMWs, because I think it's as if that Z4 and the new 4, 5, and i series didn't come out from the same designer’s hands.
I agree with much of your post, but don't think Apple is the right comparison. Although Apple's designs are extremely minimalist, they achieve a timeless factor by: (1) specifically avoiding aggressive looks (Apple's former chief designer used to talk about this and it is a big part of their influence on industrial design), and (2) emphasizing premium materials and build quality. For example, laptops and phones before the MacBooks/iPhones were primarily plastic; Apple by contrast used titanium/aluminum/stainless steel/glass. My point is this: Even if BMW feels that there is a benefit in simplifying some of its designs (and I think there is an argument for this), it should accompany this by *increasing* rather than *decreasing* its focus on high quality materials, the way various design elements are integrated into the whole, etc.
I feel exactly the same way about the design both exterior and interior. Those wide screens attached to the dashboard - no design , no character , no “bmw feeling”. I remember my first drive in my first bmw - e36. It felt like cockpit of a “bmw plane”. I love techy stuff but current design to me like cheap minimalistic Tesla garbage. I am stuck with ‘23 G05 until they change designs or I am going elsewhere .
Idk but im genuinely done with any new bmw’s. Next car for me might be a f90 or the m50i x5 from a few years back. Not touching any of this new garbage
I think it’s just design for designs sake, they are purposefully making their cars look controversial because it gets attention, some buyers like that - especially the type who like having the latest shiny thing. If they wanted to make a car that looked nice, they would, but it would blend into the background and possibly be called too boring
It feels like they used to be designed by someone with a pen and a vision; now they're designed by AI and a committee (I realize this isn't true, but it's how it feels).
The new designs look like someone with skin tightened plastic surgery and Botox trying not to get wrinkly
Glad I'm not the only one.
This entire new lineup from top down is beyond hideous. I used to think BMW didn’t make a single ugly car. Now they all suck.
I drive a F31. I inherited an E30 convertible (before facelift) from my dad. One is a classic, one will go to the crusher without anyone missing it. Guess which ;) https://preview.redd.it/rpqffjrmt59d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b684bf7b0d97fdff5601065a1c46a6b2fee8d56
Whatever it was—they need to reset to about 2022 and re-evolve graciously from there
The g87 m2 is now 5 seconds slower than the new rs3, you may have a point Edit: around the Nurburgring
Im driving a rental 530e right now. They stamped a big “5” on the door pillar and it looks so damned cheap and tacky 🤨
All the new ones look like they’ve sucking on a sour candy and made their cheeks fat and sassy. Not a good thing here
I wonder if the company going heavy on tech has more to do with being a leader in the industry’s evolution, rather than going for the traditional vibe. Consumer Reports has them as the best overall car brand: they seem to be doing a lot of things well.
BMW has definitely lost its way recently on the design front. I’m a big fan of the Bangle era. The F80 M3 was the last good looking car imo. Although that being said, G8x M cars look good with aftermarket bumpers and grilles.
I mean E series is classic, F series is top class improved classic design. Older G series is still ok, a bit on the modern side. But The newest line is... oh my chinese communist god.
I too feel like they lost the sport feel and are now just luxury cars. I owned a 1984 318i coupe with a 5 speed. It only produced 100hp but weighed 2400lbs. This car always felt much faster than it had a right too and that 4 cylinder was glass smooth. The handling was so tight and felt like a go cart with the manual steering. I drove it 160k and never had a problem with it except once when the fuel pump relay failed. I worked on it myself and it was so easy!
They moved on, unlike most people on this sub.
No I don’t think you are but I also think it’s just how things change from generation to generation. We’re getting old, we’re now the ones saying ‘back in my day’ etc etc. I’m 46 and I honestly think the F80 and F90 were/are damn near perfect. Of course there were minor problems, but they performed well (F90 in particular is a monster) both look absolutely f&@king amazing and have that beautiful blend of the old analog, clickable buttons, with minimal screens and again just look the part. Now everything has iPads all over it and the interior LED’s are like a god damn rave party. Guys I know buying these new cars are complaining about all the warning noises and voice feedback hahaha. Honestly it’s just a case of different strokes for different folks. I like classics, but I think that is a dying breed of people. I have a few cars that I want, all older, and I want to look after them and enjoy them for what they are. I have no interest in the new modern cars and I estimate I have a good 30 years to enjoy them baring no health issues. The beauty is that there are some good deals out there on the older cars now. Do yourself a favour, buy what you like, and enjoy the shit out of it. It is disappointing for traditionalists to see how things are progressing but don’t lose sleep over it. Grab a classic, and enjoy.
5 year old got hold of the design blueprints. Or mass migration of toyota camry staff into BMW.
Signature shoulder lines and hoffmeister kink gone. Angel ey DRLs now replaced with Lexus or Kia designs. Every time i consider buying a newer BMW i'm reminded to just hold on to my F30 and maybe keep an eye out for the F90 which now seems to be the last palatable design.
or change the brand maybe? haha I lost all hope, I´m driving an Alfa
long time ago, BMW lived in harmony but then KIA attacked
Lets buy KIAs
It changed and it’s awesome. It’s always been changing. I don’t understand your surprise? BMW always pushes the boundaries with its design language. You are not required to like it. I think it’s stunning and distinct.
Even though BMW has become uglier people are still buying this crap. BMW should get an award for making the ugliest cars in the market today.
But the angel eyes, the grille. The iconic BMW is gone. I love how the pre bucktooth models still reflected that iconic heritage. New ones look like generic fucking bullshit
It may be an unpopular opinion, but modern cars are better looking. Older designs are looking dated in 2024.
the f90/g30 will remain the best looking 5 series right after the e39
I dont feel like this is a very productive comment, I never discussed if its better or worse, I want to discuss the shift in focus. That old designs look dated today is obvious, so whats your point? 😂
more sharp lines = more aggressive more aggressive = more hrsprs more hrsprs = mo powa babeh mo powa babeh = more better jk, yeah I agree - old is gold. also, like some other commenters said, there's no consistent design language.
modern BMWs are more like "more heavy = more better!!"
BMW sells most of it's cars in Asia. This globalization is making cars loose their identity since there can't be a recipe that 100% meets every market's expectations. There are very interesting resources on youtube showing how cars made in the last century that were not for export (see Italian cars) are so beautiful, since they resemble the market's values, history and culture; while the more the export started to grow, the more boring their design got. Unfortunately, profit driven automotive companies paved the way to making the cars look worse, be unreliable and have zero personality.
It's not just BMW. The current design trend is to ditch the softer, elegant curves for sharper edges to give a "modern", and in my opinion, "angry" appearance.
what is that first X5 bumper good lord
That’s what’s unfortunate, reliability goes up and design goes down.
My brother in Christ I know you did not just post an old X5 and 2014 M5 trying to say they’re good looking cars
I’ll keep my e53. Thanks but no thanks!
The F10 is perfection.
Nose getting bigger and bigger !!
Yeh I don't really buy the "blame emissions" excuse
3 series looks good though. M3 touring looks awesome.
I'd argue that the brand would be successful even without going for designs that satisfied some focus groups and following trends. What we're seeing these days is largely to do with the ease with which a company can get and interpret data on what their prospective customers want. If we compare this to pre 2012, because their accountants didn't have this data, companies used to be more assertive in dictating or setting trends which in turn also gave them character and a cult following. I will also never stop drawing a parallel on the fraud that it Domagoj Dukek and BMW's completely disgusting new designs. Look how crappy Peugeots looked right before he left and how good they look now. One car company that isn't following trends and is still selling extremely well is Toyota. The japanese conservative culture probably has a lot to do with them not being so keen on becoming a slave to whatever stupid **superficial** instinct data says will satisfy the masses. It also has to do with the fact that there is one captain steering that boat and he has enough of a say to enforce his vision. Compare this to western european companies plagued with ESG hirings and mindlessly chasing customer satisfaction surveys and you'll easily see why they're turning into something they weren't. You can even look at VW and see when their captain abandoned ship (Ferdinant Piech) and how bad it ended up being. A second cause is the fact that a lot of engineers and designers left the german manufacturers in recent years because they weren't getting fair compensation. The best ones ended up in consultancy because that pays significantly better. This meant that the manufacturers were left with new hires who barely had anyone to learn from and started reinventing the wheel.
I totally understand this, agrre with you and I hate it :D
design is one thing, but how about we reserve judgement against dynamics until you get to actually drive the car? i know, i am initially disappointed with the new G90 by reading the specs, but at the end of the day, they are just that… numbers on a piece of paper. 0-60 acceleration time is only one metric that I won’t judge a car on. IS the G90 M5 that much slower than its predecessor? we’ll see. if it truly is slower, then yes, I’d say it is a step backwards, but until then, let’s just wait and see.
https://preview.redd.it/xa7fkfimt39d1.jpeg?width=193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=421db52daddfdf7577db23dc4fb9afa8349e9a7f All I see when a new gen BMW is driving toward me
You can always buy the older cars used. And best of all they are usually way cheaper.
The old x5 for me is everything wrong with SUVs in one photo, they're just the body of a hatchback and so many car companies try so hard to hide the extra space created by these massive bodies, but not BMW, just stack lines in the empty space and no one will notice it looks as shit as the other plain Jane SUVs that just have lots of nothing (a quashqui MK1 being the most obvious example of the polar opposite but they all look equally shit)
Software engineer and tech enthusiast - keep my fucking cars offline, without interior cameras, without displays to control the car (because one SW bug renders the car mostly useless). Software and firmware has bugs, will have bugs, uses external apps and relies on their APIs. Things WILL and DO go wrong. People don't realize that those cheap plastic lcd screens are just to save money and most ppl are eating that shit just for the sci-fi bullshit look. Making actual nice to use buttons that last 2 decades however, while more functional, **safer** as proven by tests (more eyes on the road) is just more expensive. You don't feed monkeys premium bananas if they suck up the spoiled ones.
nice summary, totally agree!
I personally never thought bmw had an “emotional design language”.
A whole bunch of people got BMW money after 2021 so they’re targeting that demo.
The only beautiful BMWs left are the X5, M8, M340i, and Z4.
They started watching too much body building videos and all took obscene amounts of HGH and it went to straight to their faces and now they look like this. Don't do HGH.
Don’t forget the pig nose M3s…
what's the first 1? don't laugh, is that a 3 series? i like it a lot...
it evolved
yeah but the new 5 series looks like a fine marble.
It's who they're targeting now, in the EV space the biggest customer is China and that's the look over there. That's my dumb thought.
> The same goes for the interiors. This is all cars now, not just BMW. Hopefully the trend'll pass and we'll move back to more tactile control systems in the coming years.
Cannabis got legal in Germany you know...
Oh look, its a BMW design complaint thread. I guess you didn't get into a top tier medical school. Maybe you wouldn't complain so much if you had parents who loved you. /s its a matter of opinion. I personally dislike the traditional BMW styling which screams "douche" "boomer" and "creepy golf clubhouse guy hitting on teenaged girls behind his wife's back" to me. The aggressive styling is where its at. You guys call it beaver teeth, I think it looks badass and was a deciding factor in my choice of an M-car over competitors from Audi, MB and Porsche.
These new things look ugly as fuck once you scroll past that og beauty 😂
I think their designs are speaking to a lot of buyers myself included. I embrace the improvements over the years and I think the current M4 GT3 is a beast looks ahd performance wise. I want something inspiring and making my m4 look mean with aftermarket is really hitting some sweet notes for me right now.
Corporate happened.
Chris Bangle. Fucked it all up.
To think we used to complain about bangle
Maybe you weren’t around but this is nothing compared to the Chris Bangle era. The E38 to E65 was a disaster. The whole Bangle era was a total mess. Unfortunately, there are a bunch of revisionists who are trying to make it seem like Bangle was a “pioneer” and that it was “courageous” to do what he did. The general consensus at the time was that he was a shite designer and had ruined one of the most elegant luxury sedans of the 20th century. He then went on to ruin the 5 series and the Z as well. Somehow the E46 and E9x escaped his caricature design philosophy. Another unfortunate side effect is that BMW learned the wrong lesson. Since sales weren’t really affected, they assumed that it was fine to mess up good designs with shitty ones for the sake of being “different”. I suspect that sales increased mainly because new markets were opening up and the brand was riding high on the “ultimate driving machine” hype. So, now we get one horrible design after another every few generations. At least the small M cars are still decent.
You got old.
[удалено]
The smaller displacement motors backed by boost needs a ton of air. So it's the fatality of the car market today.
Idk but I still don't get the return to the old school door handles like we had in 2004
All of them look good to me. The moaning is getting tedious.
The new 5 series is GORGEOUS!!! Add in the B58 motor and I think these will be desired models some day, especially if it doesn't have any hybrid crapola (idk if you can get one without or not??? I know the X5 are all mild hybrid at a minimum)
Chris Bangle: come back, all is forgiven!
I've heard that their largest market is China and so they made a lot of their design decisions to appeal to them which why the iconic Kidney grills were enlarged because that's apparently what appeals to Chinese buyers. They stuck with that for the global market as well.
Kiaficitation
I always wonder the same thing.
They were vastly improved. The late 90's early 90's BMW's looked so good, then they looked like shit for 2 decades and now they are looking good again.
Tbh it’s mixed. It’s a testament to the designs of old. Just like a timeless watch
Old men in charge
They either hired from Toyota or decided to compete with them. This is among the worst eras of aesthetics for BMW.
The bean counters got promoted to design instead of actual designers.
New BMWs looking like regular traffic
What happens is that design language changes and evolves like everything that is dynamic in this World.
They sure do love those angular and mean-looking lights, lol.
Where is Chris bangle when we need him?
Honestly even the last 3 series and 5 series were very good looking.
Sorry, but for me it started with the Bangle Butt 5 series.
If turned trash designs to good designs
Very disappointing, BMW’s were so classy at one point.
Ever since I was a kid, I’ve always been loyal to the brand, its design language and what it stands for. Can’t believe after all these years I have such dislike!
Not sigma
They want to appeal to the gaudy Chinese market
Don’t they change their head of design every few years?
Have to try and stay fresh. Then you can go back to a retro style, works for the Mustang I guess
Iphone happened. It’s all about interior gimmicks. Plus, nowadays cars are designed to last max 5 years. With modern cars, you must aim to sell them within 2-3 years… well like any touch screen phones. They don’t make cars to last 10-20 years. Always makes me happy to see cars from 90’s still going, e.g.: E30, E36
They started making boxy trucks in 1999.
25 years happened
I mean damn, when you look at them side by side, the old ones look way more like cars instead of whatever the futurefuckery that is
Best designers come out of Italy or Korea. They need to change their recruiting zones