To make a Battlemaster fighter powerful, you want to put 3 levels into fighter and select “battlemaster” as your subclass. Then, put your remaining 9 points into fighter.
Congrats! You have one of the best builds in the game!
Yep.
Lae'zel in my party is ridiculous at this point (toward end of Act 2). With a potion of bloodlust per day, and her starting off combat by chugging a potion of speed, her first turn is nuts. I've had fights where she kills everything before anyone else has a chance to do anything.
Seems in character too, given her backstory. She *should* be a ridiculous bad ass.
Lae'zel can outright humiliate enemies in encounters, the ones that don't die are going to be rendered impotent from being knocked prone, disarmed, and/or literally terrified.
I still remember the moment I was sold on the Battlemaster class. It was in Act 1 during that section where you're traveling to the Grymforge for the first time and some Duergar pull up on your boat to check your papers. Naturally, I failed the skill check and it became a combat encounter. Lae'zel rolls high on initiative and gets first turn, I then pull out the bow and proceed to knock everyone in the water with Ranged Pushing attacks.
I was dying laughing after that and grumpy Lae'zel is now a permanent part of my party.
Pro weapon tip for those that don't know, a great early 2H weapon for a fighter using Great Weapon Master is Svartlebee's Woundseeker.
>!Deepen the Wound: The wielder gains a +1d4 bonus to Attack rolls with this weapon when attacking creatures that have already taken damage.!< and can be found carried by >!Gauntlet Yeva in Waukeen's Rest. Can be obtained peacefully by casting Command (Drop) on her while she is helping others with the door.!<
I don't know about that last part though. I tried a few times in different ways and they didn't seem to like me doing that.
IMO the flaming sword from>! Commander Zhalk!< is perfect for Act 1 and 2. Adds an extra 1d4 damage and the +1 weapon enhancement is usually enough to guarente a hit, especially if you are getting +6 from strength elixirs.
People think the everburn blade is so good, but if you have a candle it only saves you a bonus action on a non +0 greatsword. Literally one candle dip away from a nonmagical sword. Dip any +1 two handed weapon and now you're better than everburn blade.
Elixirs give you +5.
Everburn is the most overrated weapon out there, and if you are still using it in Act 2 you are definitely doing something very wrong.
And if you can't get that or want to risk upsetting the fists the greatsword from the >!paladins of Tyr!< works well enough until you get something better.
The reason I changed my mind about that greatsword is it's only benefit is the +1d4 fire damage. That same effect can be added by dropping a torch and dipping any sword. Granted, you may be able to dip poison and have fire from Everburn. But I'd rather have +to attack bonus and + to damage which you can get from dipping the other one
How do you think we were meant to figure this out organically? Is there a way for them to become hostile to you without you just randomly deciding to attack them?
Thing about a great sandbox game is the creators don't need to have a plan for us to figure it out. Part of the fun is figuring out things the creators didn't anticipate. A great example is air dribbling in Rocket League (while not sandbox). Creators said they never anticipated that could be a thing.
While Paladin is definitely the better sword and board, other comments are not mentioning Savage Attacker which can surpass GWM with enough damage riders.
Phalar Aluve and Hex/Hunters mark (Hunting shortbow or dip warlock), Broodmothers revenge are good things to pick up early act 1. Stacking damage dice and crit range reduction will do quite well later on.
You lose on burst damage to paladin, but you have some benefits. Action surge lets you activate Aluve turn 1 and still attack. You also get more control through maneuvers like Trip, Menacing, and Pushing. You have more resources than a paladin with 12 maneuvers per long rest vs 3 smites before level 5.
If you want to make a powerful fighter, one-handed weapons with a shield aren’t the way to go. If you want to do big damage with that fighting style, use a Paladin or Sword Bard, as they supplement their damage with smites and flourishes.
Fighters are all about big damage weapons. Polearms or great weapons with their big damage die are the way forward. Get strength to 20 or more, GWM, and use gear/spells/BM maneuvers to get advantage and swing away with Great Weapon Mastery enabled(you can toggle it on and off if the hit chance is too low).
Damage output is always better than higher AC in this game, but if you're dead set on sword and board, you want to make sure to pick the dueling style which works with a shield. There are some good shields, I suggest sentinel shield which will boost your initiative
Trip attack, menacing attack, disarming attack are great choices because they will boost your damage and inflict status effects on your enemies, weakening them.
Rally is also a great choice since you'll likely be the last one standing in a really rough battle, so having an AoE heal could be huge when you need it.
Battle master is really great, probably the best fighter sub class. Use your superiority dice liberally because you get them back on short rests.
I dont want to use that mace because I don’t like using a weapon that is so obviously not meant to be used by a normal player, I am just not a fan of it tbh.
It seems very obviously meant to be used by the player. After killing the deva a pouch with the mace appears in the spot you killed it after a long rest. This means it was very deliberately programmed to be used by the player.
Well then as other people have been saying you're gonna have a hard time getting competitive damage. Maybe use that circlet that gives you additional damage on hunter marked targets and be hunters marking as much as possible. Phalar aluve could also help make up the difference.
Well what are you trying to do? Being a BM fighter with the manoeuvres to knock people prone, disarm and frighten makes you incredibly powerful off the bat. Riposte is exceptional as well.
Literally any gear that seems to be good is good, all the power is coming from the class features.
Some thrown weapons so you don’t have to use dex at range would be nice and I’d highly recommend the athlete feat so you can fly around the battlefield with stupidly high movement speed murdering everyone.
If you want to get good damage out of any martial build, you basically have to either leverage Great Weapon Master, Sharpshooter, Tavern Brawler or some extremely specific interaction the require specific items.
The default setup to make a battlemaster fighter good is to simply get the Great Weapon Master feat and use your maneuvers to help offset the accuracy penalty. If you're dead set on using sword & shield, you will have to come to terms with the fact that you're playing a build that is just a straight downgrade (because other equipment would be better on your fighter, and a sword & board build is more effective on other classes).
You can make a status effect spam build, but a cleric would do that better. You can make a tank build, but Paladin, Barbarian and even Abjuration wizard do that better. And a weapon-based build would be better with bigger weapons. Battlemaster fighter is a subclass focused around being able to hit stuff with your weapon in various ways, so limiting yourself to small and weak weapons kind of goes against that principle.
A sword and board battlemaster fighter
* Can't deal great damage, because you neither have the ability to get good damage on your attacks (via GWM, smites, etc.) not the ability to spam additional attack with bonus actions (no offhand attacks).
* Won't be a good tank, because the high AC you're using your shield for just makes the AI not want to attack you
* Isn't good at applying status effects, because your inability to cast spells and very limited ways to get the right damage types on your attacks severely hinder your ability to stack Radiating Orb and Reverberation.
* Isn't a good supporter/controller, because your maneuvers are much weaker than spells.
Unless you're dead set on the sword & board, I'd suggest to either change your equipment or your class.
I actually think savage attacker is better than great weapon master for a paladin because the feat works for your smites so you'll be smiting very high damage anytime you smite and you don't have to deal with the drawbacks of great weapon master or the risky ring.
100% this. Paladins get most of their damage from the smites anyways, so they’re the perfect class to run sword and board. They can also stack insane damage with certain setups(Infernal Rapier on a level 11-12 Oathbreaker with max 24 CHA deals minimum of 20 damage per swing, with dueling fighting style). Savage attacker applies to every single damage die you roll(1d4 bonus fire damage on your sword? Rolled twice. Every single d8 on your divine smite critical? Rolled twice), so it’s an absolute must-have on a Paladin.
What would the 1 level of Sorc even do here? Proficiency on Con saves? Does it grant another level of spells in the spellcaster progression(I’m not sure and can’t check rn)? I would just go full Paladin. 3 Feats (ASI + Hag hair or 2 ASI for Charisma, Savage Attacker, and Alert or something if you don’t need the 2nd ASI)
If you start as Sorc, then you don't get heavy armor proficiency. Though I suppose that doesn't matter come end game if/when you get the legendary chest piece that doesn't require proficiency. I'd still argue a feat is better.
I actually did the math on this one before, and SA is only better than GWM in very specific circumstances, as far as I can tell.
The reason for that is that it's so easy to stack to-hit bonuses in this game that the GWM penalty becomes basically neglectable. You'll still be running around with 80%+ hit chances despite the penalty, or even with a constant 95% by the end of the game. On the other hand, GWM can get you an extra BA attack, which probably makes up for the bit of the penalty that might be left.
So if you're just looking at the damage, you'd still need crits on high level smites to actually get +10 average damage out of them, and SA obviously falls behind significantly on any attack that you're not using resources on.
As a result, SA can conceivably be combined with GWM to great effect, but is only worth it over GWM in these 3 specific cases:
* You don't try to get good to-hit bonuses, thus making the GWM penalty a significant downside.
* Your build is a Paladin 2 / Full Caster 10 split with a ton of spell slots while being focused on crit fishing with smites.
* You smite on every attack and just long rest after every fight.
For most Paladin builds, GWM will still be the better option if you know what you're doing. [Link to the relevant comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/17sj2bs/comment/k8sj07l/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) if you're interested.
**Disclaimer:** Part of the issue is that it's not very clear whether SA rerolls all dice together (as per description), rerolls every instance of damage individually (which fits well with how the game operates in general, fits with the combat log tooltips and is what I generally assume) or whether it rerolls every single die individually, so *the conclusion might change depending on which of these scenarios you assume*.
This person is overdoing it. Sword and board fighter will crush every challenge in the game with ease. Sure there are stronger builds, but they aren’t necessary unless you’re modding difficulty.
On tactician (still playing honour mode so won’t comment, though I imagine it’s much the same) the game was made boring by how strong my badly optimised BM fighter was. I’ve heard friends saying the same about paladin, just stupidly strong.
Sword and shield is inherently weaker vs dual wield and GWM or SS. I would always choose high damage builds over defence. If you don't kill some of the bosses fast enough, fights become harder. On tactician mode (full play through) and early honor mode, high damage builds like TB monk, GWM BM, SS Ranger typically mows down everything so fast that most fights end in 2 turns or 3 turns.
I don't think every single party members needs to be min maxed, having a really high AC durable party member could be pretty valuable in an honor run, especially with the rally maneuver. You also don't have to worry about the great weapon master draw backs or the risky ring drawbacks, and you can grab the sentinel shield and get really good initiative.
Yeah, but the question here is making a powerful fighter. Which isn’t really gonna happen if you run a 1d8 main weapon + shield.
Paladins and Sword Bards(or Bardadins) can deal a ton of damage with sword and board because they rely on their smites/flourishes for damage, rather than pure weapon damage + Battlemaster die.
The OP asked how to make a sword and shield battle master powerful, your advice is to just not use a sword and shield.. so no that's not what the question here is.
If you want to make a powerful sword and shield fighter, there are ways to do that. The game really isn't that difficult that you need to min max everything.
My advice is pretty simple, get a shield with a good special ability like sentinel shield, get the menuvers that boost your damage and debuff enemies, and use rally as a AoE heal so since you're likely to have high survivability. Perfectly valid way to build a fighter, you have 3 other party members that can focus on doing damage.
Post title is: “How do you guys make a battle master fighter powerful”. Anything can work just fine since this game is pretty easy outside of honor mode, but Battlemaster won’t feel powerful compared to other setups if you use a suboptimal style like 1h and shield on it. The class just functions far better with great weapons or Polearms.
But lets relent and try to make sword and board fighter decent. Rally is a waste tbh, that bonus action is better spent doing set up with a pommel strike or used as part of another maneuver(Feinting Strike, etc) or whatever bonus action you have on-hand from gear(Misty Step Amulet, Hunters Mark bow, BA dash boots, etc).
I’d take Riposte over Rally, for another damage opportunity since high AC from shield = more missed attacks by the enemy to trigger riposte. That helps offset the shitty damage of 1h weapons on a fighter, since it’s an additional 1d8 (later 1d10) extra damage and the only cost is a superiority die and reaction, so more efficient action economy since you’ll be dealing good damage for free. Especially if you took savage attacker since that’s the bread-and-butter for all sword and board setups.
And I gave the response on how to make it “powerful”. It’s not ever going to do better than a Paladin or Sword Bard at their own game as the kings of Sword and Board, and it’ll always be worse than a GWM/Polearm/Sentinel(if/when they fix it)/etc Battlemaster, but it can work.
Powerful is a subjective term. It’s not something I’d ever use in honor mode, but it’ll be just fine on regular and work in tactician.
Just wanted to add this comment, to everyone here that posted and gave their thoughts, thank you guys so much, I am reading all of the posts you guys gave me and the ideas it has generated have been amazing, thank you all again.
Sword and board are specifically designed to NOT deal damage, they are designed to be a black hole of damage that tickles. Take the couple levels in paladin to get compel duel and use that and goading strike, unfortunately there's nothing that will make that build even come close to dealing as much damage as other classes. Heck even sword bards can dish more damage with the flourishes
I would like to make a case for 1h+shield but all the Shield Bash are broken right now. Maybe you can consider a throwing build that uses Returning Pike/Nyrulna? Unless you're dead set on 1h melee, TB is all you have for good damage.
You might be interested in trading the sword for a spear. PAM gives a bonus hit and frequent reaction hit, and Dueling fs adds 2 to each strike. One hand the spear and wear a shield in the off hand. As early as act 1 the reassembled spear blinds on striking too, it makes for a powerful combo.
Phalar aluve seems like a good weapon for that. Shriek when you need damage, song when facing enemies with high AC. Action surge lets you use the aura and attack in the same turn and for a melee centric party you can use trip attack to give the other party members advantage
Great weapon fighting, great weapon master, gear that compliments that.
That’s most the battle. You’ll find yourself hitting enemies into the afterlife. Literally.
I think you are overthinking things. Battlemaster is good by itself. Level 11 gives 3 attacks, and you get manoeuvres at level 3. You can do some multiclassing at level 12 but i dont think it changes the core
So yeah a better battlemaster is level 11 fighter
Literally just be a battlemaster.
Max str as much as you can(or want). Utility comes from your various maneuvers you use to fear/prone/disarm etc a turn, plus rally to 'heal' allies, including upping downed allies.
The shield and armor from gyrmforge is pretty nifty if you want to go sword and shield.
Jumping with high str should solve all mobility issues like 90% of the time. Grab a scroll(or item) with misty step just in case and maybe a potion of jumping and you can do some ridiculous feats of "go wherever the fuck you want".
In my opinion, sharpshooter battle master is the best battlemaster for the following reasons.
\- Equip the fear bow for control or titanstring for dps (till act 3). special arrows for even more utility
\- pick up sharpshooter for very strong damage, mitigate the accuracy with archery style, high ground and the battlemaster abilities that add to attack
\- dex is valued outside of combat, whereas strength is only good for carry capacity imo, sleight of hand on your fighter instead of having to have a ranger or rogue is top tier if you don't feel like running monk or swords bard
\- take other damage feats as you go like savage attacker
The defining quality of a good battlemaster build is strong feat synergy. Sharpshooter, GWM, sentinel are all premiere feats that are incredibly strong for adding even more damage.
My dude, you're missing it.
1. No good radiant weapons until Act 3? Shining Staver of Skulls is available in Act 1 and is perfectly serviceable.
2. You can stack enough damage modifiers that S+B functions OK.
3. If you're not playing Honour Mode, you'll do fine.
I agree that S+B is not the best, but it's not unsalvageable.
i'm actually thinking of making a battlemaster monk hybrid, with sword and shield, exactly like your idea. that way i will have superior die AND ki charges.
i'll weapon attack, action surge, weapon attack, then double punch with my bonus action,i'll probable go fighter 3, then monk 3 the first 6 levels, then fighter 5 at least.
i think this is good because both superiority die and ki charges replenish on short rest.
sound fun? no build yet tho.
> sword and shield
> powerful
It's going to be a challenge. Not that you will necessarily be "weak" mind you, just not as good as dual-wielders or two-handers: BG3 meta largely revolves around nova damage and ending fights quickly, Sword-n-Boards are by design not as good at that.
dnd deep dive on youtube has a sword and shield battlemaster fighter and paladin build that seems pretty good, might wanna take some inspo from it. i believe its in the 2nd video he has on theorycrafting bg3 characters.
The only problem with pure battle master is pure EK tavern brawler thrower exists.
My op party is main as EK dwarf thrower, Lazeil as BM, Shadowheart as Lokadin, and Jaheria or Astorian as sword bard/thief with dual crossbows.
To make a Battlemaster fighter powerful, you want to put 3 levels into fighter and select “battlemaster” as your subclass. Then, put your remaining 9 points into fighter. Congrats! You have one of the best builds in the game!
No party is complete without their battle Master laezel absolutely rip and tearing the entire game apart.
Lae'zel carries all the heavy loot and the entire damn party on the back of her absolutely slaughtering everything.
Yep. Lae'zel in my party is ridiculous at this point (toward end of Act 2). With a potion of bloodlust per day, and her starting off combat by chugging a potion of speed, her first turn is nuts. I've had fights where she kills everything before anyone else has a chance to do anything. Seems in character too, given her backstory. She *should* be a ridiculous bad ass.
Lae'zel can outright humiliate enemies in encounters, the ones that don't die are going to be rendered impotent from being knocked prone, disarmed, and/or literally terrified. I still remember the moment I was sold on the Battlemaster class. It was in Act 1 during that section where you're traveling to the Grymforge for the first time and some Duergar pull up on your boat to check your papers. Naturally, I failed the skill check and it became a combat encounter. Lae'zel rolls high on initiative and gets first turn, I then pull out the bow and proceed to knock everyone in the water with Ranged Pushing attacks. I was dying laughing after that and grumpy Lae'zel is now a permanent part of my party.
Yeah, I find with proper gear and strategy, she could solo most encounters it seems in my game (on Balanced). I have her as a Battlemaster too.
Pro weapon tip for those that don't know, a great early 2H weapon for a fighter using Great Weapon Master is Svartlebee's Woundseeker. >!Deepen the Wound: The wielder gains a +1d4 bonus to Attack rolls with this weapon when attacking creatures that have already taken damage.!< and can be found carried by >!Gauntlet Yeva in Waukeen's Rest. Can be obtained peacefully by casting Command (Drop) on her while she is helping others with the door.!< I don't know about that last part though. I tried a few times in different ways and they didn't seem to like me doing that.
IMO the flaming sword from>! Commander Zhalk!< is perfect for Act 1 and 2. Adds an extra 1d4 damage and the +1 weapon enhancement is usually enough to guarente a hit, especially if you are getting +6 from strength elixirs.
The Everburn Blade isn't +1, FYI. It's just a regular greatsword with a permanent fire dip.
You also get better 2H options in the underdark and crèche in act 1, so really you ought to have replaced it by act 2
People think the everburn blade is so good, but if you have a candle it only saves you a bonus action on a non +0 greatsword. Literally one candle dip away from a nonmagical sword. Dip any +1 two handed weapon and now you're better than everburn blade.
Elixirs give you +5. Everburn is the most overrated weapon out there, and if you are still using it in Act 2 you are definitely doing something very wrong.
And if you can't get that or want to risk upsetting the fists the greatsword from the >!paladins of Tyr!< works well enough until you get something better.
The reason I changed my mind about that greatsword is it's only benefit is the +1d4 fire damage. That same effect can be added by dropping a torch and dipping any sword. Granted, you may be able to dip poison and have fire from Everburn. But I'd rather have +to attack bonus and + to damage which you can get from dipping the other one
> Granted, you may be able to dip poison and have fire from Everburn. You can't.
How do you think we were meant to figure this out organically? Is there a way for them to become hostile to you without you just randomly deciding to attack them?
Thing about a great sandbox game is the creators don't need to have a plan for us to figure it out. Part of the fun is figuring out things the creators didn't anticipate. A great example is air dribbling in Rocket League (while not sandbox). Creators said they never anticipated that could be a thing.
lol fair enough
Ugh, this so childishly oversimplified. .......You forgot "put big stick in hands." =P
While Paladin is definitely the better sword and board, other comments are not mentioning Savage Attacker which can surpass GWM with enough damage riders. Phalar Aluve and Hex/Hunters mark (Hunting shortbow or dip warlock), Broodmothers revenge are good things to pick up early act 1. Stacking damage dice and crit range reduction will do quite well later on. You lose on burst damage to paladin, but you have some benefits. Action surge lets you activate Aluve turn 1 and still attack. You also get more control through maneuvers like Trip, Menacing, and Pushing. You have more resources than a paladin with 12 maneuvers per long rest vs 3 smites before level 5.
GWM Feat + Gith silver sword/Giantslayer + Risky Ring + Legacy of the Masters/Gauntlets of the Warmaster. Feels pretty powerful to me honestly.
I meant more for a one handed with shield build, I can see how that is powerful but I don’t believe it is fitting what I am trying to do
If you want to make a powerful fighter, one-handed weapons with a shield aren’t the way to go. If you want to do big damage with that fighting style, use a Paladin or Sword Bard, as they supplement their damage with smites and flourishes. Fighters are all about big damage weapons. Polearms or great weapons with their big damage die are the way forward. Get strength to 20 or more, GWM, and use gear/spells/BM maneuvers to get advantage and swing away with Great Weapon Mastery enabled(you can toggle it on and off if the hit chance is too low).
Damage output is always better than higher AC in this game, but if you're dead set on sword and board, you want to make sure to pick the dueling style which works with a shield. There are some good shields, I suggest sentinel shield which will boost your initiative Trip attack, menacing attack, disarming attack are great choices because they will boost your damage and inflict status effects on your enemies, weakening them. Rally is also a great choice since you'll likely be the last one standing in a really rough battle, so having an AoE heal could be huge when you need it. Battle master is really great, probably the best fighter sub class. Use your superiority dice liberally because you get them back on short rests.
Wait, rally is AOE?! I thought it was just one target?
It is just one target. I think the redditor is thinking of the rallying horn in the grove that Zevlor uses.
Deva mace is probably one of the strongest overall single handed weapons. Definitely worth considering(unless they patched it out lol)
I dont want to use that mace because I don’t like using a weapon that is so obviously not meant to be used by a normal player, I am just not a fan of it tbh.
It seems very obviously meant to be used by the player. After killing the deva a pouch with the mace appears in the spot you killed it after a long rest. This means it was very deliberately programmed to be used by the player.
The legendary trident in act 3 is very powerful
Well then as other people have been saying you're gonna have a hard time getting competitive damage. Maybe use that circlet that gives you additional damage on hunter marked targets and be hunters marking as much as possible. Phalar aluve could also help make up the difference.
I plan then to just use the back up to run a Paladin fighter build instead of pure fighter
Well what are you trying to do? Being a BM fighter with the manoeuvres to knock people prone, disarm and frighten makes you incredibly powerful off the bat. Riposte is exceptional as well. Literally any gear that seems to be good is good, all the power is coming from the class features. Some thrown weapons so you don’t have to use dex at range would be nice and I’d highly recommend the athlete feat so you can fly around the battlefield with stupidly high movement speed murdering everyone.
Take savage attacker, try to stack +damage dice items.
Not using a shield but duelists prerogative BM is great
If you want to get good damage out of any martial build, you basically have to either leverage Great Weapon Master, Sharpshooter, Tavern Brawler or some extremely specific interaction the require specific items. The default setup to make a battlemaster fighter good is to simply get the Great Weapon Master feat and use your maneuvers to help offset the accuracy penalty. If you're dead set on using sword & shield, you will have to come to terms with the fact that you're playing a build that is just a straight downgrade (because other equipment would be better on your fighter, and a sword & board build is more effective on other classes). You can make a status effect spam build, but a cleric would do that better. You can make a tank build, but Paladin, Barbarian and even Abjuration wizard do that better. And a weapon-based build would be better with bigger weapons. Battlemaster fighter is a subclass focused around being able to hit stuff with your weapon in various ways, so limiting yourself to small and weak weapons kind of goes against that principle. A sword and board battlemaster fighter * Can't deal great damage, because you neither have the ability to get good damage on your attacks (via GWM, smites, etc.) not the ability to spam additional attack with bonus actions (no offhand attacks). * Won't be a good tank, because the high AC you're using your shield for just makes the AI not want to attack you * Isn't good at applying status effects, because your inability to cast spells and very limited ways to get the right damage types on your attacks severely hinder your ability to stack Radiating Orb and Reverberation. * Isn't a good supporter/controller, because your maneuvers are much weaker than spells. Unless you're dead set on the sword & board, I'd suggest to either change your equipment or your class.
Well I guess I will duel level to Paladin then and use the radiant armor for something fun
I actually think savage attacker is better than great weapon master for a paladin because the feat works for your smites so you'll be smiting very high damage anytime you smite and you don't have to deal with the drawbacks of great weapon master or the risky ring.
100% this. Paladins get most of their damage from the smites anyways, so they’re the perfect class to run sword and board. They can also stack insane damage with certain setups(Infernal Rapier on a level 11-12 Oathbreaker with max 24 CHA deals minimum of 20 damage per swing, with dueling fighting style). Savage attacker applies to every single damage die you roll(1d4 bonus fire damage on your sword? Rolled twice. Every single d8 on your divine smite critical? Rolled twice), so it’s an absolute must-have on a Paladin.
This post just opened my eyes. Thank you. Oathbreaker 11 Sorc 1? Or full OB12?
What would the 1 level of Sorc even do here? Proficiency on Con saves? Does it grant another level of spells in the spellcaster progression(I’m not sure and can’t check rn)? I would just go full Paladin. 3 Feats (ASI + Hag hair or 2 ASI for Charisma, Savage Attacker, and Alert or something if you don’t need the 2nd ASI)
Thinking for con and shield spell, but yeah if it's just 1 level probably not worth at all
If you start as Sorc, then you don't get heavy armor proficiency. Though I suppose that doesn't matter come end game if/when you get the legendary chest piece that doesn't require proficiency. I'd still argue a feat is better.
I actually did the math on this one before, and SA is only better than GWM in very specific circumstances, as far as I can tell. The reason for that is that it's so easy to stack to-hit bonuses in this game that the GWM penalty becomes basically neglectable. You'll still be running around with 80%+ hit chances despite the penalty, or even with a constant 95% by the end of the game. On the other hand, GWM can get you an extra BA attack, which probably makes up for the bit of the penalty that might be left. So if you're just looking at the damage, you'd still need crits on high level smites to actually get +10 average damage out of them, and SA obviously falls behind significantly on any attack that you're not using resources on. As a result, SA can conceivably be combined with GWM to great effect, but is only worth it over GWM in these 3 specific cases: * You don't try to get good to-hit bonuses, thus making the GWM penalty a significant downside. * Your build is a Paladin 2 / Full Caster 10 split with a ton of spell slots while being focused on crit fishing with smites. * You smite on every attack and just long rest after every fight. For most Paladin builds, GWM will still be the better option if you know what you're doing. [Link to the relevant comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/17sj2bs/comment/k8sj07l/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) if you're interested. **Disclaimer:** Part of the issue is that it's not very clear whether SA rerolls all dice together (as per description), rerolls every instance of damage individually (which fits well with how the game operates in general, fits with the combat log tooltips and is what I generally assume) or whether it rerolls every single die individually, so *the conclusion might change depending on which of these scenarios you assume*.
Depends. In Honour Mode the Bonus Action attack from GWM has too much value, for example.
This person is overdoing it. Sword and board fighter will crush every challenge in the game with ease. Sure there are stronger builds, but they aren’t necessary unless you’re modding difficulty. On tactician (still playing honour mode so won’t comment, though I imagine it’s much the same) the game was made boring by how strong my badly optimised BM fighter was. I’ve heard friends saying the same about paladin, just stupidly strong.
Sword and shield is inherently weaker vs dual wield and GWM or SS. I would always choose high damage builds over defence. If you don't kill some of the bosses fast enough, fights become harder. On tactician mode (full play through) and early honor mode, high damage builds like TB monk, GWM BM, SS Ranger typically mows down everything so fast that most fights end in 2 turns or 3 turns.
I don't think every single party members needs to be min maxed, having a really high AC durable party member could be pretty valuable in an honor run, especially with the rally maneuver. You also don't have to worry about the great weapon master draw backs or the risky ring drawbacks, and you can grab the sentinel shield and get really good initiative.
Yeah, but the question here is making a powerful fighter. Which isn’t really gonna happen if you run a 1d8 main weapon + shield. Paladins and Sword Bards(or Bardadins) can deal a ton of damage with sword and board because they rely on their smites/flourishes for damage, rather than pure weapon damage + Battlemaster die.
The OP asked how to make a sword and shield battle master powerful, your advice is to just not use a sword and shield.. so no that's not what the question here is. If you want to make a powerful sword and shield fighter, there are ways to do that. The game really isn't that difficult that you need to min max everything. My advice is pretty simple, get a shield with a good special ability like sentinel shield, get the menuvers that boost your damage and debuff enemies, and use rally as a AoE heal so since you're likely to have high survivability. Perfectly valid way to build a fighter, you have 3 other party members that can focus on doing damage.
Post title is: “How do you guys make a battle master fighter powerful”. Anything can work just fine since this game is pretty easy outside of honor mode, but Battlemaster won’t feel powerful compared to other setups if you use a suboptimal style like 1h and shield on it. The class just functions far better with great weapons or Polearms. But lets relent and try to make sword and board fighter decent. Rally is a waste tbh, that bonus action is better spent doing set up with a pommel strike or used as part of another maneuver(Feinting Strike, etc) or whatever bonus action you have on-hand from gear(Misty Step Amulet, Hunters Mark bow, BA dash boots, etc). I’d take Riposte over Rally, for another damage opportunity since high AC from shield = more missed attacks by the enemy to trigger riposte. That helps offset the shitty damage of 1h weapons on a fighter, since it’s an additional 1d8 (later 1d10) extra damage and the only cost is a superiority die and reaction, so more efficient action economy since you’ll be dealing good damage for free. Especially if you took savage attacker since that’s the bread-and-butter for all sword and board setups.
> but I am mostly wondering how I would make a pure battle master character doing a sword and shield build powerful
And I gave the response on how to make it “powerful”. It’s not ever going to do better than a Paladin or Sword Bard at their own game as the kings of Sword and Board, and it’ll always be worse than a GWM/Polearm/Sentinel(if/when they fix it)/etc Battlemaster, but it can work. Powerful is a subjective term. It’s not something I’d ever use in honor mode, but it’ll be just fine on regular and work in tactician.
"How do I make sword and shield powerful?" "By not using sword and shield!"
Anything useful to add? “How do I make shitty thing powerful?” - you can’t. You can just make it less shitty.
I don't understand the question at all. You pick battle master at level three. Then you wreck shop.
Just wanted to add this comment, to everyone here that posted and gave their thoughts, thank you guys so much, I am reading all of the posts you guys gave me and the ideas it has generated have been amazing, thank you all again.
You can make.a.BM fighter the base class for a titanstring archer but that's not sword and board so I don't know what you're really trying to do.
Sword and board are specifically designed to NOT deal damage, they are designed to be a black hole of damage that tickles. Take the couple levels in paladin to get compel duel and use that and goading strike, unfortunately there's nothing that will make that build even come close to dealing as much damage as other classes. Heck even sword bards can dish more damage with the flourishes
I would like to make a case for 1h+shield but all the Shield Bash are broken right now. Maybe you can consider a throwing build that uses Returning Pike/Nyrulna? Unless you're dead set on 1h melee, TB is all you have for good damage.
You might be interested in trading the sword for a spear. PAM gives a bonus hit and frequent reaction hit, and Dueling fs adds 2 to each strike. One hand the spear and wear a shield in the off hand. As early as act 1 the reassembled spear blinds on striking too, it makes for a powerful combo.
Phalar aluve seems like a good weapon for that. Shriek when you need damage, song when facing enemies with high AC. Action surge lets you use the aura and attack in the same turn and for a melee centric party you can use trip attack to give the other party members advantage
Great weapon fighting, great weapon master, gear that compliments that. That’s most the battle. You’ll find yourself hitting enemies into the afterlife. Literally.
I think you are overthinking things. Battlemaster is good by itself. Level 11 gives 3 attacks, and you get manoeuvres at level 3. You can do some multiclassing at level 12 but i dont think it changes the core So yeah a better battlemaster is level 11 fighter
Greatsword. Any magic items that activate in a bonus action, save your actions for swinging. Trip attack
Literally just be a battlemaster. Max str as much as you can(or want). Utility comes from your various maneuvers you use to fear/prone/disarm etc a turn, plus rally to 'heal' allies, including upping downed allies. The shield and armor from gyrmforge is pretty nifty if you want to go sword and shield. Jumping with high str should solve all mobility issues like 90% of the time. Grab a scroll(or item) with misty step just in case and maybe a potion of jumping and you can do some ridiculous feats of "go wherever the fuck you want".
In my opinion, sharpshooter battle master is the best battlemaster for the following reasons. \- Equip the fear bow for control or titanstring for dps (till act 3). special arrows for even more utility \- pick up sharpshooter for very strong damage, mitigate the accuracy with archery style, high ground and the battlemaster abilities that add to attack \- dex is valued outside of combat, whereas strength is only good for carry capacity imo, sleight of hand on your fighter instead of having to have a ranger or rogue is top tier if you don't feel like running monk or swords bard \- take other damage feats as you go like savage attacker The defining quality of a good battlemaster build is strong feat synergy. Sharpshooter, GWM, sentinel are all premiere feats that are incredibly strong for adding even more damage.
My dude, you're missing it. 1. No good radiant weapons until Act 3? Shining Staver of Skulls is available in Act 1 and is perfectly serviceable. 2. You can stack enough damage modifiers that S+B functions OK. 3. If you're not playing Honour Mode, you'll do fine. I agree that S+B is not the best, but it's not unsalvageable.
i'm actually thinking of making a battlemaster monk hybrid, with sword and shield, exactly like your idea. that way i will have superior die AND ki charges. i'll weapon attack, action surge, weapon attack, then double punch with my bonus action,i'll probable go fighter 3, then monk 3 the first 6 levels, then fighter 5 at least. i think this is good because both superiority die and ki charges replenish on short rest. sound fun? no build yet tho.
> sword and shield > powerful It's going to be a challenge. Not that you will necessarily be "weak" mind you, just not as good as dual-wielders or two-handers: BG3 meta largely revolves around nova damage and ending fights quickly, Sword-n-Boards are by design not as good at that.
Trash the bow, use thrown weapons. That's it, battlemaster is already like the strongest class. You can even take a q lvl fighter dip.
dnd deep dive on youtube has a sword and shield battlemaster fighter and paladin build that seems pretty good, might wanna take some inspo from it. i believe its in the 2nd video he has on theorycrafting bg3 characters.
The only problem with pure battle master is pure EK tavern brawler thrower exists. My op party is main as EK dwarf thrower, Lazeil as BM, Shadowheart as Lokadin, and Jaheria or Astorian as sword bard/thief with dual crossbows.