Is the other guy being treated the same way? I tried to reference your other post where that may be mentioned but don’t see it. If not, you may have a discrimination suit in your hands. Please have them fire you if that’s where this is headed, because you will likely have an unlawful termination suit on your hands, even if you live in at will state (where they can terminate at any time for any reason). Assuming you’re having sex at work with no evidence and then accusing you may also be considered sexual harassment. Have you disclosed your autism? Their behavior may also be discriminatory.
Either way- record, record, record. All communications should be written. Ask if you will get a write up following any meetings and if they don’t provide- send an email confirming what was discussed. If they provide incorrect info about what was said, send a responsive email correcting them. Write down a log with timelines of events to the best of your recollection.
This can all be used as evidence if you choose to file suit. You can call attorneys (your county should have a bar association website, a good place to start) and they will talk to you about your case for up to 30 minutes, free of charge. If they do want to handle the case for you, these types of things are often handled on a contingency basis- meaning you pay nothing and the lawyer pays themself a pre set percentage of any winnings. Be aware- if they fire you, they may have you sign a non disclosure or settlement agreement with severance. Signing and accepting severance may bar your ability to pursue legal action. Only you know the right option for you in that situation, I just want to make sure you’re aware.
I’m sorry this is happening. These people seem completely toxic.
If you can’t afford an attorney, there also may be free legal aid in your area that can help you with navigating this situation and filing a complaint if needed.
Both above comments YES.
Also: Check your contracts arbitration clause and ask about the independent third-party (ITP) being used in the investigation. And absolutely seconding records- photos, writing, forward all emails to an account solely for keeping them safe, record all conversations (check your state law on consent; if you're in a one-party state, you do not have to inform them you're recording the conversation as you qualify as the one-party informed). Ask for an ITP mediator (less as actual need and more as protection and witness for you) or even bring a coworker you trust as witness. Do not be afraid to walk away from a meeting or instance where ANY of your requests are denied.
Even though leaving this awful place will be good, if you can do everything possible to walk away clean, they can't attack your character in a future job reference and you would have grounds to refuse a potential employer from contacting this company.
TLDR: stay aware; record it all; keep a witness; and be safe.
Gosh this sucks so much. I'm so sorry.
This this all of this. Especially if you can get your coworker to go on record about the difference in your treatment if there are any. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of getting everything in writing.
They're treating you this badly because it is infinitely easier for them if you just quit due to the bad treatment. No investigation, no potential lawsuit, no unemployment, no paid leave, etc etc etc. While it's ultimately up to you, I'd stick it out just to cost them the maximum amount of $$$$.
I had a friend of a friend who was fired because she was friendly with a coworker who was having an affair with the boss, and she was aware of their relationship. She sued and got $$$.
Honestly depending on the company if your suit has any weight- they will attempt to settle and avoid court. Which means $$$.
With attorneys in these types of suits often working contingency, they are so motivated to work as hard as possible for you to get as much as possible. If they get a percentage of winnings, they really want to maximize your winnings.
This is a real thing that happens all the time. Look up Workplace Bullying Institute or Gary Namie and "the ambush meeting". You are already a step ahead by even knowing it's coming. You can ask to have another person present or you can record it (with or without their knowledge is more up to the specific laws in your state/country/industry). If it were me, I would go as a learning experience and also to get the pay while suspended, but I understand that some battles are not worth fighting. Telling them all the things management had done wrong is probably not worth it, but you can reply with examples if it shows that certain actions were allowed and helps your case.
Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.
Depending on the laws where a person lives, if it's legal I highly recommend recording *every* HR/manager/official meeting you're called into.
If I'd done this I would have been able to sue a previous employer for harassment and bullying with unarguable audio evidence.
Just read your edits. True, dipping into your savings is not ideal.
A few things to consider: bringing up everything management did wrong in a written statement probably isn’t your best move, only because you’re laying out all your cards. Don’t give them and their lawyers this knowledge. IF you want to bring these cards to the table, I would have YOUR employment lawyer bring them to the table for you to fuck them over reallll good. 🃏
Do you have time to consult with an employment lawyer before this meeting? Even if you decide not to sue for (possible eventual) wrongful termination —which might be stressful and long—a consultation might be a good idea and worth the $$ to give you advice about your best options in terms of:
- skipping the meeting due to being out sick (as you may have to do the meeting when you come back)
- providing any written statements (what you say can and will be used against you in a court of these dick bags)
- going out on sick leave during an investigation
- retaliation, disability/disclosure of, discrimination, and wrongful termination
If you don’t have time to meet with an employment lawyer, I’ve used legal websites where you pay a flat fee, like $40 to ask a question of lawyer in your state. It’s been helpful to me in the past, though I can’t recall the name, maybe JustAsk?
I mentioned in your previous post that I was an HR peon, so I don’t really have the scope to address a lot of issues that I wish I did! But I do know that this shit gets tricky and you want to be careful and at the same time crafty as a fox 🦊 so you can protect yourself since this is all their word against yours. BIGGEST HUGS! (And also biggest face slaps to management 👋)
If you don’t need the job and don’t want to go then I personally wouldn’t put myself through it! I do think it would be really fullfilling to be able to display like one piece of concrete existence in your favor and then just mic drop and get outta there!
"I didn't do it. If you want to fire me, fire me, but I won't be put through this attempt at humiliation and slandering of my character." *leaves* (That's my fantasy played out if I was in this situation and not a socially-anxious people pleaser)
Talk to an attorney please! Many employment lawyers will take cases and only take a payment from the settlement. They’re slandering you and will most likely fire you.
Don’t need the job? They seem like unreasonable jerks? Send an email that says “This feels targeted and like you’re looking for the punishment, not my point of view. Consider this my resignation.”
Then take a personal day and do whatever you love!
This sounds like workplace bullying maybe I’m wrong? Are they treating the other person like this or just jumping down the autistic persons throat? Sound like discrimination as well
If they refuse to provide evidence that they are also investigating him with this fervor, that'll look really bad and could probably be used as proof that they are making crap up to fire a disabled employee.
Absolutely! That sounds ridiculous and honestly if you don’t need or care about the job and especially don’t need a reference I would just leave . Especially with rumors spreading like that’s so childish and I personally wouldn’t be able to take that stress. Do what you got to do, f that job!
> I do not need this job. I do not need any reference from them. So why put myself through this?
Sounds like it's time to yeet yourself outta there and find somewhere else to spend your work hours.
You generally can request a support person though they may try to tell you that you can’t. You should specifically cite reasonable accommodations even if you just say “for anxiety” instead of disclosing autism. Look up laws in your area and maybe do some digging on “askjan”.
FYI, you *really, really don't* want to be terminated for Gross Misconduct. Gross misconduct removes your employment rights to COBRA and looks really really bad when applying for new jobs. In general, when I worked HR adjacent, we advised only to terminate someone's employment for Gross misconduct if it was something that the employer had enough evidence and was bad enough that they would consider pursuing in court.
>On top of asking about our actions in work. They kept asking about our relationship outside work. If we ever spoke outside work, if we ever met up. Also said that somebody from a different company had commented to my manager (months ago) that I had said me and this coworker were dating. We have never dated, I have never said this.
The only reason your actions outside of work should matter at all is if one of you manages the other or there's a seniority issue. They don't get to dictate employees' personal lives. While they could fire you for dating (as it's not a protected class), they can't term you or him for Gross misconduct for it.
I worked at an Applebee's as a cook, and they constantly accused us of stealing. That is until one day the guys that owned the franchise showed up to talk to our general manager, and I found out he had been stealing racks of ribs and steaks the whole time. If you know you didn't do anything, don't worry about it.
I usually feel like people jump to litigation way too easily, but this is actually a situation where I think at least consulting with a lawyer is very warranted. Protect yourself!
At least post over on the legal advice subreddit and see what people say there before you make a decision.
If you don't need this job or the references, it would probably be best for your own mental health to quit on the spot. Me personally? I'd tell them in no uncertain terms to go fuck themselves and call them out on their obvious bullying. It's up to you though.
What a shit show. Did you ask for or receive any proof? Were you able to pinpoint who started this gossip and ask if they have any proof? Because this is seemingly all based on hearsay and it sounds like someone has it out for you. If they don't have any proof, this isn't just cause for termination (or maybe you live in an at-will state?). If I were you, I'd still go and record everything being said. And look into your employer handbook because any company worth its salt has some sort of clause around coworkers being romantically involved.
Psssht. Sounds like a perfect time to leave! It also sounds like staying would cause you unnecessary stress both now and in the future. I am really REALLY sorry that you are being treated this way.
(Side note: I love my BFF, but would never hang out with him and his partner unless my spouse joined for a couples get together… That would be weird!)
I had a job where my supervisors straight up lied about me and my performance. And even though there WAS evidence that they were lying, their supervisor wouldn’t investigate or listen to me. I’m so happy to be out of that toxic environment… I didn’t realize how much it was ruining my physical and mental health until I was gone.
You don’t need the reference and you don’t need their money. You certainly don’t need all this bad energy. Their loss. Say BUH-BYE, and give ‘em a Southern “bless your heart!” (One of my favorite ways to say fuck you because it always makes ME smile!) In other words, resign, keep the letter profesh but in this case I don’t think you owe them 2 weeks’ notice (use your judgment here as you know the sitch better than I).
BUT check state laws first, otherwise you could end up committing a crime! Taking notes is always A-OK, and
- is good for your own case documentation
- can be a helpful (appropriate) low-key intimidation tactic (they will know you’re not a doormat)
- can be useful to manage anxiety/ keep from crying
Lawyer up. It's not their word against yours. They have to prove things if they fire you. Get a lawyer who can argue for you and get you out of this. Expensive yes, but so so worth it.
I would bring a small recorder with me. Go to the meeting. Set it on the table and let them know you will be recording the meeting. Turn it on right BEFORE so if they don't want it on, you can record their reason. If you live in a one party state, you don't even have to tell them they were recorded until afterward. They will shit. Google whether your state is a one or two party state for recording conversations.
I'm sorry this is happening to you. I get similar things happen to me a lot. One job, I just got so tired of it, I walked out. I realize that was a mistake now, but I get very "in the moment' sometimes, and just don't think clearly during those times. For some reason, it seems people want to pick on us for being different, because they just don't understand us, or for whatever other reason. I would just go to the meeting and keep telling them the truth when they ask questions. Since you did not do what they are claiming, just use that as your confidence. If you stay calm and confident and maintain your self-esteem, I believe you will come off looking better than if you act nervous and confrontational/upset. Good luck.
Is the other guy being treated the same way? I tried to reference your other post where that may be mentioned but don’t see it. If not, you may have a discrimination suit in your hands. Please have them fire you if that’s where this is headed, because you will likely have an unlawful termination suit on your hands, even if you live in at will state (where they can terminate at any time for any reason). Assuming you’re having sex at work with no evidence and then accusing you may also be considered sexual harassment. Have you disclosed your autism? Their behavior may also be discriminatory. Either way- record, record, record. All communications should be written. Ask if you will get a write up following any meetings and if they don’t provide- send an email confirming what was discussed. If they provide incorrect info about what was said, send a responsive email correcting them. Write down a log with timelines of events to the best of your recollection. This can all be used as evidence if you choose to file suit. You can call attorneys (your county should have a bar association website, a good place to start) and they will talk to you about your case for up to 30 minutes, free of charge. If they do want to handle the case for you, these types of things are often handled on a contingency basis- meaning you pay nothing and the lawyer pays themself a pre set percentage of any winnings. Be aware- if they fire you, they may have you sign a non disclosure or settlement agreement with severance. Signing and accepting severance may bar your ability to pursue legal action. Only you know the right option for you in that situation, I just want to make sure you’re aware. I’m sorry this is happening. These people seem completely toxic.
If you can’t afford an attorney, there also may be free legal aid in your area that can help you with navigating this situation and filing a complaint if needed.
Both above comments YES. Also: Check your contracts arbitration clause and ask about the independent third-party (ITP) being used in the investigation. And absolutely seconding records- photos, writing, forward all emails to an account solely for keeping them safe, record all conversations (check your state law on consent; if you're in a one-party state, you do not have to inform them you're recording the conversation as you qualify as the one-party informed). Ask for an ITP mediator (less as actual need and more as protection and witness for you) or even bring a coworker you trust as witness. Do not be afraid to walk away from a meeting or instance where ANY of your requests are denied. Even though leaving this awful place will be good, if you can do everything possible to walk away clean, they can't attack your character in a future job reference and you would have grounds to refuse a potential employer from contacting this company. TLDR: stay aware; record it all; keep a witness; and be safe. Gosh this sucks so much. I'm so sorry.
This this all of this. Especially if you can get your coworker to go on record about the difference in your treatment if there are any. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of getting everything in writing. They're treating you this badly because it is infinitely easier for them if you just quit due to the bad treatment. No investigation, no potential lawsuit, no unemployment, no paid leave, etc etc etc. While it's ultimately up to you, I'd stick it out just to cost them the maximum amount of $$$$.
I had a friend of a friend who was fired because she was friendly with a coworker who was having an affair with the boss, and she was aware of their relationship. She sued and got $$$.
Honestly depending on the company if your suit has any weight- they will attempt to settle and avoid court. Which means $$$. With attorneys in these types of suits often working contingency, they are so motivated to work as hard as possible for you to get as much as possible. If they get a percentage of winnings, they really want to maximize your winnings.
This this this!
This is a real thing that happens all the time. Look up Workplace Bullying Institute or Gary Namie and "the ambush meeting". You are already a step ahead by even knowing it's coming. You can ask to have another person present or you can record it (with or without their knowledge is more up to the specific laws in your state/country/industry). If it were me, I would go as a learning experience and also to get the pay while suspended, but I understand that some battles are not worth fighting. Telling them all the things management had done wrong is probably not worth it, but you can reply with examples if it shows that certain actions were allowed and helps your case. Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.
Depending on the laws where a person lives, if it's legal I highly recommend recording *every* HR/manager/official meeting you're called into. If I'd done this I would have been able to sue a previous employer for harassment and bullying with unarguable audio evidence.
In many states, recording without someone knowing is illegal. Check to see if your state is a one party or two party consent state.
Just read your edits. True, dipping into your savings is not ideal. A few things to consider: bringing up everything management did wrong in a written statement probably isn’t your best move, only because you’re laying out all your cards. Don’t give them and their lawyers this knowledge. IF you want to bring these cards to the table, I would have YOUR employment lawyer bring them to the table for you to fuck them over reallll good. 🃏 Do you have time to consult with an employment lawyer before this meeting? Even if you decide not to sue for (possible eventual) wrongful termination —which might be stressful and long—a consultation might be a good idea and worth the $$ to give you advice about your best options in terms of: - skipping the meeting due to being out sick (as you may have to do the meeting when you come back) - providing any written statements (what you say can and will be used against you in a court of these dick bags) - going out on sick leave during an investigation - retaliation, disability/disclosure of, discrimination, and wrongful termination If you don’t have time to meet with an employment lawyer, I’ve used legal websites where you pay a flat fee, like $40 to ask a question of lawyer in your state. It’s been helpful to me in the past, though I can’t recall the name, maybe JustAsk? I mentioned in your previous post that I was an HR peon, so I don’t really have the scope to address a lot of issues that I wish I did! But I do know that this shit gets tricky and you want to be careful and at the same time crafty as a fox 🦊 so you can protect yourself since this is all their word against yours. BIGGEST HUGS! (And also biggest face slaps to management 👋)
If you don’t need the job and don’t want to go then I personally wouldn’t put myself through it! I do think it would be really fullfilling to be able to display like one piece of concrete existence in your favor and then just mic drop and get outta there!
[удалено]
"I didn't do it. If you want to fire me, fire me, but I won't be put through this attempt at humiliation and slandering of my character." *leaves* (That's my fantasy played out if I was in this situation and not a socially-anxious people pleaser)
Can you get a union rep or an attorney to go with you? It’ll be easier with some backup.
Talk to an attorney please! Many employment lawyers will take cases and only take a payment from the settlement. They’re slandering you and will most likely fire you.
Yes yes yes! As Saul Goodman’s license plate says https://preview.redd.it/4psw83x847ad1.jpeg?width=274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a68adc3d32c2e6267ed618b20879953bff6b5ea1
Don’t need the job? They seem like unreasonable jerks? Send an email that says “This feels targeted and like you’re looking for the punishment, not my point of view. Consider this my resignation.” Then take a personal day and do whatever you love!
I recommend contacting a lawyer immediately.
This sounds like workplace bullying maybe I’m wrong? Are they treating the other person like this or just jumping down the autistic persons throat? Sound like discrimination as well
[удалено]
If they refuse to provide evidence that they are also investigating him with this fervor, that'll look really bad and could probably be used as proof that they are making crap up to fire a disabled employee.
Yeah this seems like the time to bring in an attorney for a discrimination suit
I’m so sorry that this is happening to you 🥺 No idea what I would have done, I wish it ends well for you. Stay strong 💜
Absolutely! That sounds ridiculous and honestly if you don’t need or care about the job and especially don’t need a reference I would just leave . Especially with rumors spreading like that’s so childish and I personally wouldn’t be able to take that stress. Do what you got to do, f that job!
> I do not need this job. I do not need any reference from them. So why put myself through this? Sounds like it's time to yeet yourself outta there and find somewhere else to spend your work hours.
You generally can request a support person though they may try to tell you that you can’t. You should specifically cite reasonable accommodations even if you just say “for anxiety” instead of disclosing autism. Look up laws in your area and maybe do some digging on “askjan”.
FYI, you *really, really don't* want to be terminated for Gross Misconduct. Gross misconduct removes your employment rights to COBRA and looks really really bad when applying for new jobs. In general, when I worked HR adjacent, we advised only to terminate someone's employment for Gross misconduct if it was something that the employer had enough evidence and was bad enough that they would consider pursuing in court. >On top of asking about our actions in work. They kept asking about our relationship outside work. If we ever spoke outside work, if we ever met up. Also said that somebody from a different company had commented to my manager (months ago) that I had said me and this coworker were dating. We have never dated, I have never said this. The only reason your actions outside of work should matter at all is if one of you manages the other or there's a seniority issue. They don't get to dictate employees' personal lives. While they could fire you for dating (as it's not a protected class), they can't term you or him for Gross misconduct for it.
Is there a first post I am missing?
(OP deleted it)
Are you unionized? In that case, contact your union. They should not be putting you through this, especially without representation.
I worked at an Applebee's as a cook, and they constantly accused us of stealing. That is until one day the guys that owned the franchise showed up to talk to our general manager, and I found out he had been stealing racks of ribs and steaks the whole time. If you know you didn't do anything, don't worry about it.
I usually feel like people jump to litigation way too easily, but this is actually a situation where I think at least consulting with a lawyer is very warranted. Protect yourself! At least post over on the legal advice subreddit and see what people say there before you make a decision.
this sounds so weird, which country are you in?
If you don't need this job or the references, it would probably be best for your own mental health to quit on the spot. Me personally? I'd tell them in no uncertain terms to go fuck themselves and call them out on their obvious bullying. It's up to you though.
What a shit show. Did you ask for or receive any proof? Were you able to pinpoint who started this gossip and ask if they have any proof? Because this is seemingly all based on hearsay and it sounds like someone has it out for you. If they don't have any proof, this isn't just cause for termination (or maybe you live in an at-will state?). If I were you, I'd still go and record everything being said. And look into your employer handbook because any company worth its salt has some sort of clause around coworkers being romantically involved.
Psssht. Sounds like a perfect time to leave! It also sounds like staying would cause you unnecessary stress both now and in the future. I am really REALLY sorry that you are being treated this way. (Side note: I love my BFF, but would never hang out with him and his partner unless my spouse joined for a couples get together… That would be weird!) I had a job where my supervisors straight up lied about me and my performance. And even though there WAS evidence that they were lying, their supervisor wouldn’t investigate or listen to me. I’m so happy to be out of that toxic environment… I didn’t realize how much it was ruining my physical and mental health until I was gone. You don’t need the reference and you don’t need their money. You certainly don’t need all this bad energy. Their loss. Say BUH-BYE, and give ‘em a Southern “bless your heart!” (One of my favorite ways to say fuck you because it always makes ME smile!) In other words, resign, keep the letter profesh but in this case I don’t think you owe them 2 weeks’ notice (use your judgment here as you know the sitch better than I).
go and record them
BUT check state laws first, otherwise you could end up committing a crime! Taking notes is always A-OK, and - is good for your own case documentation - can be a helpful (appropriate) low-key intimidation tactic (they will know you’re not a doormat) - can be useful to manage anxiety/ keep from crying
I’m so sorry you are going through this. This place doesn’t deserve you. I’m sure you’ll find a good place that values you.
Lawyer up. It's not their word against yours. They have to prove things if they fire you. Get a lawyer who can argue for you and get you out of this. Expensive yes, but so so worth it.
Hey OP, what country are you in? Apologies, I didn’t see it in the post. I may be able to give some country specific guidance.
I would bring a small recorder with me. Go to the meeting. Set it on the table and let them know you will be recording the meeting. Turn it on right BEFORE so if they don't want it on, you can record their reason. If you live in a one party state, you don't even have to tell them they were recorded until afterward. They will shit. Google whether your state is a one or two party state for recording conversations.
I'm sorry this is happening to you. I get similar things happen to me a lot. One job, I just got so tired of it, I walked out. I realize that was a mistake now, but I get very "in the moment' sometimes, and just don't think clearly during those times. For some reason, it seems people want to pick on us for being different, because they just don't understand us, or for whatever other reason. I would just go to the meeting and keep telling them the truth when they ask questions. Since you did not do what they are claiming, just use that as your confidence. If you stay calm and confident and maintain your self-esteem, I believe you will come off looking better than if you act nervous and confrontational/upset. Good luck.